# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  Changed from Varilux Comfort to Essilor Ovation -- now I know what "Swim" is ...

## Ladd

My last pair of glasses (first with PALs) had Varilux Comfort lenses and my new pair have Essilor Ovation lenses -- now I understand what people are talking about when they discuss "swim".

It's been two days and I'll give it a couple more to see if I adjust to it, but I don't remember this at all when I first received the Comfort lenses. 

Before I return to discuss this with my ECP, I'm curious if this swim effect is due more to the design/construction of the lens itself or a possible fitting issue.

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## Jedi

Did your add power increase? Changes in the RX can make the areas of distortion seem more visible initially. I'd give at least a week if you are not experiencing poor vision. What was the reasoning to change the lens initially?

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## Happylady

The Comfort is a soft design and the Ovation is a semi soft design. Give it a week or two and see if it gets better. I agree with the above poster that if the add power increased much will see more swim in any lens.

If it is a different frame it could need some adjustment. The vision will be better if the lenses sit close to the face with a little curve to the front of the frame. The bottom of the lenses should sit in closer then the top.

If it isn't getting any better after a week or two, and the frame is sitting properly and the lenses are made correctly, then talk to the optician about redoing them in Comfort.

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## Ladd

Thanks for the quick replies!

I'm using the same frame as before as I like its size and shape. As my regular and backup frames are identical, Marchon Autoflex 5, I've had the new Ovation lenses installed in the lightly-used backup frames. So a change in lens shape shouldn't be an issue. I suppose some small differences between the two frames in the nose pad adjustments could be possible.

My Add has changed, yes. Looking at the old Comfort lenses shows a marking of 12 near the temple and my new lenses show a marking of 17 (current prescription has "Reading Add of 1.75"; a quick search fails to turn up my older prescriptions). I note that the refraction index of the lens is different also: Old = 1.6, new = 1.67.

If general wisdom saying that increased Add brings more distortion (plus possible changes due to the changes in the refraction index of the lens material itself plus the differences between soft vs. semi-soft design), then perhaps that is what I am seeing in the Ovations.

When I accepted the option of trying the Ovation instead of continuing with the Comfort, it was simply to see if I would get acceptable correction using a less expensive lens. I guess "proper scientific procedures for testing" haven't been followed as I have changed multiple parameters -- different opthamologists, prescription specifications, ECPs and lens models. So when there are changes from the old to the new (and not ones that initially appear to be improvements) wondering if the major cause is the change from Comfort to Ovation isn't really valid logic, but it IS just about the only factor I have control over. 

I really don't want to ask my ECP to jump through the hoops of refitting with a Comfort lens if there is a high probability that I will experience essentially the same thing. I do plan on discussing the issues with him, but wanted to do some homework first so I might ask more intelligent questions and be better able to understand his answers. 

I very much appreciate you folks taking the time to offer your advice. Thanks.

Of course, there's that whole "can't see the TV when laying down on the couch like I'm used to, unless I'm sitting more upright" issue, but possibly something else, I assume ... :)

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## Happylady

Your previous add was a +1.25 and now it is +1.75. That will make the lens a little swimmer. Did your distance rx change much? Did the optican use the same measurements with the new lenses as the old lenses? The 1.67 lens has slightly worse optics then the 1.60 but most patients don't have a problem with it. The 1.67 has more reflections then the 1.6 and it is best to get an AR on it.

If you can see through them well, then I suggest giving it a little time and don't switch back and forth between the glasses. I am betting it is a combination of a lens that isn't as soft and the higher add. If you do take them back take the other glasses with you so the optician can double check if the lenses line up the same. 

Good luck and let us know what happens! 

P.S. I have trouble seeing out of my progressives when I watch TV in bed, too. :)

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## SkiBunny

> there's that whole "can't see the TV when laying down on the couch like I'm used to, unless I'm sitting more upright" issue, but possibly something else, I assume ... :)


That's because you're physically positioned so that you're looking at a more distant object (the tv) throught the intermediate/near portion of your lens.  So I think all progressive lens wearers experience what you describe. You can keep your old single-visions on the night table to wear for tv-viewing when in bed.

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## William Walker

I was taught earlier on that the Comfort was a very hard design PAL.  It was narrower, with much more defined areas of Rx v. blur, and that would seem to make sense now that the client was transitioning to a lens with wider areas, because that wider area would translate from a more gradual fade to nonRx zones.  Can someone definitively chime in and let me know about the Comfort?

Thanks

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## Happylady

I have a chart that I printed out from a link on this web site. It lists progressives with the material they come in, design, min fit height, laser marking, and power and add range. The imformation on each lens was supplied by the manufacturer. 

It lists the Comfort as a soft/multi/add design. It list the Ovation as a semi soft/multi design. The only one it lists as very hard is the Super No Line. The Adapter and the VIP are listed as hard.

This is what I was basing my imformation on. I have never considered the Comfort as a hard design, though.

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## sharon m./ aboc

I know a lot of customers that just can't get used to ANY other progressive. if they have ever worn a Varilux. Whether it's a panamic or a comfort (my husband included) will not wear anything else. He claims there is too much swim.  I have always worn ovation and I love them.  They're only $90. for CR-39, $100. for poly, & $130. for high index at Costco were I work. Oh yeah, and $30. for vivex anti-glare.  Such a deal!!!!!

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## Lewy

> I have a chart that I printed out from a link on this web site. It lists progressives with the material they come in, design, min fit height, laser marking, and power and add range. The imformation on each lens was supplied by the manufacturer. 
> 
> It lists the Comfort as a soft/multi/add design. It list the Ovation as a semi soft/multi design. The only one it lists as very hard is the Super No Line. The Adapter and the VIP are listed as hard.
> 
> This is what I was basing my imformation on. I have never considered the Comfort as a hard design, though.


what's the link please?

Thanks,  Lewy

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## Happylady

Go down to the post that says"actual corridor length". It is there, a link to Dr. Sheedy's reports. I warn you, there is a lot of imformation there!

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## rinselberg

> what's the link please?


http://optometry.osu.edu/COOR/4059.cfm

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## Bobie

1. Varilux Comfort vs Essilor Ovation are difference like Mercedez Benz C class compare with Toyota Colora.

2. The technology of Varilux Comfort is more than 10 years advance than Essilor Ovation.

3. Varilux Comfort is the best seller PALs in the world ( sold more than 120 millions pair in 2000 ) , and Varilux Comfort is still the world choice of PALs in it class.

4. No any PALs can compare performance with Varilux Comfort in each US$.

5. Forget about Hoyalux ecp , because the performance much more lower than Varilux Comfort for far , intermediate , instant focus system , comfort of vision ( swimming effect ).

6. Your choice is at below ;
6.1 going back to Varilux Comfort or
6.2 going forward to Varilux Panamic and get overall performance 30% more at all point. ( Some performance need 3 weeks for full function )

7. Many PALs company claim that their PALs wider than Varilux Comfort like AO Compact , SOLA Percepta , Shamir Genesis , Shamir Piccolo. But I can say that , if wearers ever use Varilux Comfort more than 3 weeks. They will feel the same like you.

8. In the end , the wearer like you always know the truth. But for another wearer , they have to take their own risk in their money and waste their time.

" Life is too short to see the beautiful world with junk PALs "

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## Molster

My first pair of PALS are Ovation and at first there was a little "swim" but after a couple of weeks it has completely gone away......

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## Happylady

Welcome Molster! These are very old threads, but interesting!

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## Molster

> Welcome Molster! These are very old threads, but interesting!


It's interesting that I've come across them....not sure how......I'll get the hang of this forum thing yet!....lol

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