# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  Lenscrafters outlines respectful layoff separation

## Chris Ryser

*Lenscrafters outlines respectful layoff separation. The respect starts tomorrow!*

Tomorrow might be a good day to call in sick to work. Let the separation continue! Thanks again to a LC insider who sent us this Luxottica timeline for termination. Here are the highlights. Tuesday the 26h, executive leaders notify you that your time is done. Wednesday the 27th if they decided to transfer your ***, they will inform you where you are going. Thursday the 28th, if you were tagged as disposable this is your last day. Friday the 29th, reset and look ahead, unless you were fired.  Read the actual email highlights below.........................

http://eyeoverheard.wordpress.com/20...row/#more-7439

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## Johns

Not necessarily a sign of anything LC is doing wrong.  After all, Sam's just laid off 11,000+, Verizon's dumping thousands of theirs, and many opticals, big and small have shuttered w/out fanfare.

It's never pretty, but what are they supposed to do?  A local restaurant chain (Bob's Big Boy) just closed two more locations here by having the mgt. go in at 10:00AM, announce to staff and diners that they were closing.  Unlike a steak house that also closed recently, the diners were allowed to finish their meals.

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## For-Life

I can't believe they got Vince McMahon to deliver the message

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## optical24/7

Should have been Donald Trump...

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## Spexvet

> ...
> It's never pretty, but what are they supposed to do? ...


 Maybe Leonardo Del Vecchio, the third richest man in Italy, could have lined his pockets with a little less cabbage until the economy recovers. Instead, he makes the economic situation worse by increasing unemployment. Who pays for that? The rest of us grunts.

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## fvc2020

Hey 

On the flip side I am looking to increase my staff:-)    I hope their loss could be my gain....








Christina

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## Johns

> Maybe Leonardo Del Vecchio, the third richest man in Italy, could have lined his pockets with a little less cabbage until the economy recovers. Instead, he makes the economic situation worse by increasing unemployment. Who pays for that? The rest of us grunts.


Spoken like a true...

Yeah, he's supposed to keep paying his employees while his stores are losing money...out of the goodness of his heart...to lessen the impact of "the economic situation".

Actually, he's been doing that for quite awhile already.:D  Which is surprising, given the fact that I'm sure the employees offered to take a cut in pay, a reduction in benefits, and whatever they could do to help.

Who pays for that?  For what?  

What you haven't figured out yet is that the purpose of someone starting a company is to make a profit.  It is his family that took the risk, sacrificed, and made the company what it is today. The employees were hired, and compensated for the work they've done.  So you think he should just keep paying everyone until the entire company is broke.  Hey, it makes sense to you I guess...but not anyone that knows business.

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## kcount

> Spoken like a true...
> 
> Yeah, he's supposed to keep paying his employees while his stores are losing money...out of the goodness of his heart...to lessen the impact of "the economic situation".
> 
> Actually, he's been doing that for quite awhile already.:D Which is surprising, given the fact that I'm sure the employees offered to take a cut in pay, a reduction in benefits, and whatever they could do to help.
> 
> Who pays for that? For what? 
> 
> What you haven't figured out yet is that the purpose of someone starting a company is to make a profit. It is his family that took the risk, sacrificed, and made the company what it is today. The employees were hired, and compensated for the work they've done. So you think he should just keep paying everyone until the entire company is broke. Hey, it makes sense to you I guess...but not anyone that knows business.


 
Cudos to Johns, Employee's go before my kid doesn't eat.

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## Johns

> Hey 
> 
> On the flip side I am looking to increase my staff:-)    I hope their loss could be my gain....
> 
> 
> 
>  Christina



But don't forget, once you hire them, you are obligated to keep them as employees, even if your business decreases.  Or, is that only if your the third richest in Italy. You might be the 4th richest, so the rule wouldn't apply... :Rolleyes: 

 (Have to check the rule in Business for Idiots book)

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## Chris Ryser

Just wondering silently...............that nobody has yet tried to cruzify me for bringing up another doom and gloom post.

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## Jana Lewis

> Just wondering silently...............that nobody has yet tried to cruzify me for bringing up another doom and gloom post.


It's CRUCIFY Ryser! Get it right! :p

Main Entry: *cru·ci·fy* 
Pronunciation: \ˈkrü-sə-ˌfī\
Function: _transitive verb_ 
Inflected Form(s): *cru·ci·fied*; *cru·ci·fy·ing*
Etymology: Middle English _crucifien,_ from Anglo-French _crucifier,_ from Late Latin _crucifigere_
Date: 14th century
*1* *:* to put to death by nailing or binding the wrists or hands and feet to a cross
*2* *:* to destroy the power of *:* mortify <crucify the flesh>
*3 a* *:* to treat cruelly *:* torment *b* *:* pillory 2
 *cru·ci·fi·er*  \-ˌfī-ər\ _noun_ 



Heh heh... just kidding, just thought I'd CRUCIFY you!!! :cheers:

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## Uilleann

Challenge still stands Chris - and we're all still waiting.  Turning blue holding our breath out here in virtual land.... :Rolleyes:

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## jediron1

> Spoken like a true...
> 
> Yeah, he's supposed to keep paying his employees while his stores are losing money...out of the goodness of his heart...to lessen the impact of "the economic situation".
> 
> Actually, he's been doing that for quite awhile already.:D  Which is surprising, given the fact that I'm sure the employees offered to take a cut in pay, a reduction in benefits, and whatever they could do to help.
> 
> Who pays for that?  For what?  
> 
> What you haven't figured out yet is that the purpose of someone starting a company is to make a profit.  It is his family that took the risk, sacrificed, and made the company what it is today. The employees were hired, and compensated for the work they've done.  So you think he should just keep 
> paying everyone until the entire company is broke.  Hey, it makes sense to you I guess...but not anyone that knows business.


.        


I think you forgot that Dean Butler started that company which he sold to US Shoe which in turn sold it to Lux if I have my history correct. So it wasn't all the third richest person in Italy who did it he just bought in. :Cool:

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## Johns

> .        
> 
> 
> I think you forgot that Dean Butler started that company which he sold to US Shoe which in turn sold it to Lux if I have my history correct. So it wasn't all the third richest person in Italy who did it he just bought in.



No, I didn't forget that.  Dean worked for for Proctor and Gamble in Cincy, Ohio before he started LC, but he sold it back in 1988.

Dean does not own the company now, nor does US shoe, nor does Cole National.  The (supposedly) third richest person in Italy now owns Lux.  The "poster" was saying that the wealthy gentleman should turn Lux in to a charity for opticians that work for unprofitable companies.

I stand by my first post that Mr. Delvechio worked hard and took risks to be able to be in a position to buy LC adn everything else he owns.

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## jediron1

> No, I didn't forget that.  Dean worked for for Proctor and Gamble in Cincy, Ohio before he started LC, but he sold it back in 1988.
> 
> Dean does not own the company now, nor does US shoe, nor does Cole National.  The (supposedly) third richest person in Italy now owns Lux.  The "poster" was saying that the wealthy gentleman should turn Lux in to a charity for opticians that work for unprofitable companies.
> 
> I stand by my first post that Mr. Delvechio worked hard and took risks to be able to be in a position to buy LC adn everything else he owns.



Johns get grip we are only conversing not trying to have a knock down drag out fight over a silly argument. W0W :hammer:

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## Johns

> Johns get grip we are only conversing not trying to have a knock down drag out fight over a silly argument. W0W :hammer:


Sorry...I should have peppered my conversation with a few:p, maybe a:bbg: and a :cheers: or two.  I wasn't looking for a fight, or even an argument.  I originally said 


> It's never pretty, but what are they supposed to do?


.  Someone from the Just Conversation Forum was lost, wandered in, and tried to turn the thread into a "redistribution of the wealth" thread.

Didn't mean to sound negative, just answering your question.


Here...I've got a few more of these for you::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

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## FVCCHRIS

I like *CRUZIFY* better. What could be the Webster's definition on that one?  :Cool:

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## Spexvet

> ... I wasn't looking for a fight, or even an argument. I originally said 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				It's never pretty, but what are they supposed to do?
> 			
> 		
> 
>  .


I wasn't looking for an argument, either. I did not attack you personnally, as you attacked me. I just figured that I would answer your question, since you're not smart enough to know "what are they supposed to do". I'm glad I could educate you.




> Someone from the Just Conversation Forum was lost, wandered in,


Negative, nasty, negative. :finger:




> and tried to turn the thread into a "redistribution of the wealth" thread.


No, the thread was already a "redistribution of the wealth". It was how 1,100 families will suffer so that the unsopposed third richest man in Italy can continue living his lavish lifestyle.




> Didn't mean to sound negative, just answering your question....


You didn't mean to, but you were, and always are.

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## Spexvet

> But don't forget, once you hire them, you are obligated to keep them as employees, even if your business decreases. Or, is that only if your the third richest in Italy. You might be the 4th richest, so the rule wouldn't apply...
> 
> (Have to check the rule in Business for Idiots book)


 WARNING 
Do not work for Johns. If it looks like her income is starting to lessen she will fire your butt. Good luck to you and your family.

:p:p:p

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## Now I See

While I agree with many of the points Johns brought up....I can't help but wonder, why they don't start off with cutting the hours back...i.e. close on Sunday? 

I'm sure that someone at LC has the bird's eye view, and they have looked over the numbers, but from what I know about the operation, it seems that they have stretched themselves to the limit, 7 days a week, some open till late...why not trim the store hours first?

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## Fezz

> While I agree with many of the points Johns brought up....I can't help but wonder, why they don't start off with cutting the hours back...i.e. close on Sunday?


 
I am no business Dude, but it may be an issue with the lease agreement with the mall owners. I have been involved with several lease agreement *Discussions* that have been a real eye opener! The lease may dictate the days that you must be open (7 days mostly), the hours (mostly all of them), and procedures and punishments for breaking the agreement!

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## Now I See

> I am no business Dude, but it may be an issue with the lease agreement with the mall owners. I have been involved with several lease agreement *Discussions* that have been a real eye opener! The lease may dictate the days that you must be open (7 days mostly), the hours (mostly all of them), and procedures and punishments for breaking the agreement!


You know what....I didn't even think about that, Fezz!  You're right!  Plus if I remember right, they are required to give the mall a portion of their profit (once they go above a certain amount)!

Thanks!

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## Spexvet

> While I agree with many of the points Johns brought up.....


 Thank you for disagreeing with me .... respectfully.:cheers:

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## Strab

> I am no business Dude, but it may be an issue with the lease agreement with the mall owners. I have been involved with several lease agreement *Discussions* that have been a real eye opener! The lease may dictate the days that you must be open (7 days mostly), the hours (mostly all of them), and procedures and punishments for breaking the agreement!


This happened at a Pearle Vision I worked at 12 years ago or so before they were bought out. It was a major issue trying to stay open during those non-peak hours. Now days malls are filing bankruptcy too because they are in financial hardship so I'm sure they are not taking it easy on some of these companies that lease from them.

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## Johns

> While I agree with many of the points Johns brought up....I can't help but wonder, why they don't start off with cutting the hours back...i.e. close on Sunday?


 
They've been cutting hours back for the last 3 years.  They could close on Sundays (if they'd be allowed), but they're still paying rent for that day.  That's a fixed expense.  When the work slows down, you can pay less wages, but not less rent.

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## geoflem

How about cutting some of the lens pricing and stopping all the gimicks to sell people high end frames and lenses in a low end society. When u have all the 2 for 99 dollars sv deals out there its hard to compete when u just need a pair of glasses to see to drive. I like their frames which are marked up to high but somethings gotta drop to sell them and thats the lens prices. Also some people are intimidated coming in there due the uppity staff/the lc doctors promoting optimap and unecessary exam procedures to boost exam fees. LC can have a autodealer  feel to it when dealing with people who need a commision to live. When a stylist senses a patient has no cheddar they are off to the next conquest and the patient might feel jilted or unimportant.

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## Jubilee

> They've been cutting hours back for the last 3 years. They could close on Sundays (if they'd be allowed), but they're still paying rent for that day. That's a fixed expense. When the work slows down, you can pay less wages, but not less rent.


Not to mention most are contractually obligated to be open since the majority are in malls.

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## Jana Lewis

> Not to mention most are contractually obligated to be open since the majority are in malls.


 
Hmmm... I dunno. Chick-filet is closed on Sundays.. :Confused:  

I also recall when I worked for the evil empire that the holiday hours at the mall didn't apply to us, we closed @ 9:00 instead of midnight on Christmas eve!! 

Maybe it's different now.

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## Johns

> Hmmm... I dunno. Chick-filet is closed on Sundays.. 
> 
> I also recall when I worked for the evil empire that the holiday hours at the mall didn't apply to us, we closed @ 9:00 instead of midnight on Christmas eve!! 
> 
> Maybe it's different now.


 
Anything can be negotiated.  I won't open in a mall location because of the restrictions (in the past), and the number of hours that they are open.

...but why pay the big rent if you don't take advantage of the customers that are "wandering" the mall?

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## Jana Lewis

> Anything can be negotiated. I won't open in a mall location because of the restrictions (in the past), and the number of hours that they are open.
> 
> ...but why pay the big rent if you don't take advantage of the customers that are "wandering" the mall?


 
I think it was a payroll issue. The numbers didn't reflect business during that time from what I remember.. 

Hell, who knows... I've drank alot since then!! :D

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## Fezz

> Hell, who knows... I've drank alot since then!! :D



I'll drink to that!!!

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

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## Jubilee

Yes, LC does negotiate that they don't have to abide by "holiday hours" though it wasn't always that way. There were years in some stores that they would watch tv as people walked by shopping.. but they were open!

Chik fil A, also negotiates the Sunday rule when they open a location. For them it is a company policy that Sundays are for Church and Family.. not work. 

However, you can't close a mall store on a whim w/o "fines" involved. One local store had to go round and round with mall management when their water kept having issues due to some bad prints used during a remodel. Had to close a day to get things fixed, and mall management was wanting to make them pay for hurting their business..

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## TLG

> Hey 
> 
> On the flip side I am looking to increase my staff:-)    I hope their loss could be my gain....Christina


I've worked with a couple; I wouldn't get too excited...

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## Chris Ryser

There are more comments now in todays:

http://eyeoverheard.wordpress.com/20...-lots-of-jobs/

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## Refractingoptician.com

> Just wondering silently...............that nobody has yet tried to cruzify me for bringing up another doom and gloom post.


 
Give us a chance  Chris , we'll get around to you ...

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## waynegilpin

> You know what....I didn't even think about that, Fezz! You're right! Plus if I remember right, they are required to give the mall a portion of their profit (once they go above a certain amount)!


In my experience it was normally a percentage of sales (gross).  That's why the landlord wants you open.  They don't care if you make a profit.  If you have $1 in sales that day, they still get a few pennies.  No profit that day?  That's your problem.  

Wayne

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## EdgeOptical

Its a shame for those employees, but most companies that size can trim the fat with having any impact on their business, only impacting those employees they considered to be fat. 

its a risk you take joining in with such a huge company, layoffs are nothing new, almost every business that size goes through them in some form regularly. 

Why would a retail company trim the retail level jobs? those are the ones that directly bring in income. So they cut where they are most comfortable where the jobs decrease expenses with no lost income. Now as those support positions do start to have an impact on their income because retail isnt getting the support it needs Lux will replace them with non tenured employees that can start with a much lower base pay. so they not only save the money in the time they can opperate without those employees, but they save down the road when they are replaced also. 

Its terrible on the employee level, but its a winning situation for the company. There is nothing new about that in any corner of big businesses. 

There is an intel plant a couple miles from my house, at least once a year they announce another round of layoffs, which usually happens at the same time they announce a job fair. A buddy of mine was laid off with intel in phoenix, there were no other positions for him there, or here. so he got 3 months paid off, just had to check in once a week. in that time he applied for an open position here (same job as there, but one level higher, with higher pay for the same work) and got the job. So he pretty much got a raise, a 3 month vacation, and relocated instead of the lay off... but it looked better for the intel accountants, they only saw the layoff and a hire. 

Its all business, on a more basic level its all budgeting. If your income goes down, your spending goes down. None of  us could survive personally if our income drops but our spending increases, why would we expect any company to continue doing that?

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## jediron1

> While I agree with many of the points Johns brought up....I can't help but wonder, why they don't start off with cutting the hours back...i.e. close on Sunday? 
> 
> I'm sure that someone at LC has the bird's eye view, and they have looked over the numbers, but from what I know about the operation, it seems that they have stretched themselves to the limit, 7 days a week, some open till late...why not trim the store hours first?


That would be a good idea. What you save in wages by closing on Sundays would more than make up the rent in some of LC's operations. I've talked to freinds at Sears opt. where on most Sundays half the stores do no business. So why pay one or two people to just sit there give the day off and every one saves. I personally would not work on Sundays but I know some have to. Then you get in the situation where corporate big wigs who just sit in there office and have no idea what goes on at the store level who pass all ideas down like it will make a big deal. But I like my Mon. thru Fri. work day.

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## EdgeOptical

in a corporate retail situation closing sundays would garuntee no income on that day of the week. being open sunday may not promise to make much, but it still has the chance. 

Retail only makes money if its open. 

so run with as little crew as possible, keep cost down, then any income you do bring in is a positive addition. 

i would also be curious to see how many retail staff would lose their job if they eliminated sunday hours. most malls are open 11-6 sundays (or around there, but for example purposes that will work) so 8 hours per employee avg. figure a lc store needs 4 to run, thats 32 hours. so each store can plan on losing one retail employee each. how many lc stores are there? is that more or less then the jobs being lost at the CSC?

may not be the right answer after all, and definatly one that wont increase income, it does nothing but promise to decrease it. a lose lose situation for the employee and company.

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## Johns

> There are more comments now in todays:
> 
> http://eyeoverheard.wordpress.com/20...-lots-of-jobs/



A few upset folks to say the least!

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## LandLord

This thread shows that many people have an entitlement mentality that someone else owes them a job or a paycheck just because they have more money than you. 

Even if the rich gave to the poor until everyone was even, eventually the formerly rich would be rich again and the formerly poor would be poor again because of this mentality.

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## cocoisland58

I once applied for a job at LC.  The "personality" quiz they handed me along with the app so totally cracked me up that I actually answered it honestly.  I did not get the job :Rolleyes:  (lucky me). 

If I ever (and I know I will, it's human nature) complain about my current employer again may the good Lord smite me (gently) upside the head.

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## rbaker

The combination of these global slow uncertain economic times and cash flow conspire to cause difficulties for retail (and wholesale too) businesses to meet their long term obligations and meet stockholder expectations.

It is far easier to fire a few cone heads than it is to get a short term note from your local bank. Smart companies are putting expansion plans on the back burner until the economy returns to normal if indeed it ever will.

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## EyeGurl

going the same way as nvi or others that like to keep only one licensed optician on the payroll per store?

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## jediron1

> going the same way as nvi or others that like to keep only one licensed optician on the payroll per store?



Ya they have no respect of a license. They hire people who know nothing about optical then wonder why there business is down and they have to lay people off.

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## Spexvet

> This thread shows that many people have an entitlement mentality that someone else owes them a job or a paycheck just because they have more money than you.


 No, it shows that employees expect some respect and loyalty from thier employers. 



> Even if the rich gave to the poor until everyone was even, eventually the formerly rich would be rich again and the formerly poor would be poor again because of this mentality.


I don't think that's a valid assertion. And we're not talking necessarily about "poor" people, here, we're talking about people with jobs, who have made Leonardo VERY wealthy. For that, they lose their jobs.  




> ...
> It is far easier to fire a few cone heads than it is to get a short term note from your local bank. Smart companies are putting expansion plans on the back burner until the economy returns to normal if indeed it ever will.


 It would be even easier for the owner to cut back his extravagance for a while. By keeping his workers employed, there'd be no need for unemployment payments, the cost incurred to fired the current employees, and recruit, hire, train, the ones that will undoubtedly replace them, the tax burden on those of us who still have jobs. People without jobs don't buy things like cars, which means that people who sell cars may not be able to afford eye exams and eyewear.

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## LandLord

It's so easy for an employee to say that a rich person should pay their paycheck. Would that employee work for half the pay?
Would that employee work for free?
Would that employee work for less than free, as in lose money by working there?
Would that employee work many years for a net loss?
Well now you are starting to understand what an entrepreneur has to go through to create jobs. 
Don't tell me a rich man should pay your paycheck.

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## scriptfiller

Folks don't get it...... employment is a business relationship where skills are exchanged for compensation.  I do not have a job, my employer does.  He has negotiated with me to utilize my skills/knowledge in a position within his company in exchange for monetary compensation. He owes me a safe place to  execute my craft, I owe him a correct and proper execution of my craft.

He shouldn't be guilted into giving me more than what has been negotiated.

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## Spexvet

> It's so easy for an employee to say that a rich person should pay their paycheck. Would that employee work for half the pay?


Yes. Unions make concessions every day. Employees pay more for their health insurance every year. An employee who is laid off will accept a lower wage to do the same job, just to have a job. Could the owner have made half as much without his employees?




> Would that employee work for free?


There are plenty of instances where the CEO of a company or a public servant have worked for free. They can do this because their employees have already made them wealthy. Why can't Leonardo do this?




> Would that employee work for less than free, as in lose money by working there?


Yes, if that employee is already wealthy (see above).




> Would that employee work many years for a net loss?


See above.




> Well now you are starting to understand what an entrepreneur has to go through to create jobs. 
> Don't tell me a rich man should pay your paycheck.


What? 

Taxpayers, Luxottica, and the employees would all be better off if Leonardo kept his employees and just cut back his lifestyle until the economy recovers.

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## Gino

Lux buys competition and rips it apart of good talent.  We have seen them buy companies like DOC and Pearle.  BTW who wants a closing manual for Pearle Vision ... its up for dibs.  Lux doesn't want unions.  Look what happened to California.  No more corporate Pearle's

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## Johns

> Lux buys competition and rips it apart of good talent.


If something's for sale...anyone can buy it.  What they do with it is their business.  Or are you talking about another country?

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## Gino

Just confirming lux's layoffs.  Its amazing when you go on monster and careerbuilders Lux's hiring to replace their layoffs.   That "true" respect.  :)

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## LandLord

> Could the owner have made half as much without his employees?


Yes. He can find other employees.


> their employees have already made them wealthy.


Employees don't make other people wealthy. Entrepreneurs do that.


> Why can't Leonardo work for free?


He did work for free in his early days trying to become successful. He doesn't owe it to anyone now.


> Taxpayers, Luxottica, and the employees would all be better off if Leonardo kept his employees and just cut back his lifestyle until the economy recovers.


I disagree that eating less caviar will help anyone.

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## Jubilee

Entrepreneurs can make others wealthy. However the most important asset an employer can have is good employees.

Can you run your business by yourself?

Can ANYONE do it?

Does the attitude, personality, the talents, skills, etc a person brings makes any difference?

Do you want to work in an environment where you don't feel valued and you just saw over 30% of your fellow associates being shown the door, and the company has to reduce overhead.. even if they then post openings on other employment websites looking to replace the people they let go.. just because someone else will be desperate enough to take it for a cheaper rate. Till they are let go in 10 years for making too much.

It already happened at the store level where many experienced managers and other staff was let go, and recently graduated/no experience store managers were put into place. It is the same train of thought as outsourcing.. but hey, its ok.. at least they are Americans who are getting paid.

And please.. show some compassion for these people. Since many now will be applying for public assistance and you will all down talk them cause they don't have a job.. since they are so easy to find..

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## Chris Ryser

*Del Vecchio, Leonardo* 

*Brief Biography*


Mr. Leonardo Del Vecchio serves as Executive Chairman of the Board at Luxottica Group S.p.A. He is founder of the Company's operations and is Chairman of the Board, and has been since Luxottica Group S.p.A. was formed in 1961. Mr. Del Vecchio also serves as Chairman of the Board of some of the larger subsidiaries. In 1986 the President of the Republic of Italy conferred on Mr. Del Vecchio the honor of Cavaliere dellOrdine al Merito del Lavoro (Knight of the Order for Labor Merit). Mr. Del Vecchio is currently Member of the Board of Assicurazioni Generali S.p.A., Beni Stabili S.p.A., GiVi Holding S.p.A., Gianni Versace S.p.A.; Vice Chairman of the Supervisory Board of Fonciere des Regions, Member of the Board of Delfin S.a.r.l., Aterno S.a.r.l, and Luxottica UK. In May 1995, he received an honorary degree in Business Administration from the Ca Foscari University in Venice. In 1999 he received Master honoris causa in International Business from MIB- Management School in Trieste and in 2002 he received an honorary degree in Managerial Engineering from the University of Udine.


*Basic Compensation*


Total Annual Compensation,  all in Euros

Del Vecchio, Leonardo  1,260,240

Guerra, Andrea  3,617,230

Francavilla, Luigi  1,631,870

Cavatorta, Enrico  1,309,390

Cattaneo, Mario  101,198

Del Vecchio, Claudio  81,198

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## Spexvet

> ....Employees don't make other people wealthy. Entrepreneurs do that...


 No, they don't. They pay employees just enough to ensure that the employees continue making the entrpreneur wealthy. When the entrepreneur is done with the employees, he/she throws them away like trash. Maybe then




> He can find other employees


and do it all over again.

Some people are heartless.

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## LandLord

Some people are brainless.

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## Gino

Jubilee does have a point.  Great talent deserves great compensation.  And that could mean staying another year or so at your job.  Being the first one or one of the first one laid off indicates alot.

The optical industry is just like any industry.  And down sizing is an everday situation.   Some companies don't do it every 6 months like this italian firm, but to each their own.  
:hammer:

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## LandLord

> Jubilee does have a point.  Great talent deserves great compensation.  And that could mean staying another year or so at your job.  Being the first one or one of the first one laid off indicates alot.
> 
> The optical industry is just like any industry.  And down sizing is an everday situation.   Some companies don't do it every 6 months like this italian firm, but to each their own.  
> :hammer:


In LC's case, I believe it is the executive employees who are allowing the company to decline by abandoning the one-hour concept that Lenscrafters was built on. 

Do you think a 30-day money back guarantee would have built lenscrafters into a billion dollar brand? I don't think so. Its obviously not saving the company, either. Fire the CMO and all the other dead weight, bring back one-hour service as the main focus and you might turn LC around in 10 years.

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## Gino

Well they're good at claiming things that were invented by others, and claiming it was there own invention.  Look at the chinese "lo mein" and the italian "pasta."  They just didn't pay for it, back then. 

Let them do the damage.  I'm a firm believer in trail and error.  

 We have to organize and become a unified profession.  And that means educating; the students, at opticianry schools.    :cheers:  Let the kids know what to expect from them.


Oh yeah!!!!  I think the 3 panel judges at LC sucks.  One of them can't even dance!!!

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## Johns

> In LC's case, I believe it is the executive employees who are allowing the company to decline by abandoning the one-hour concept that Lenscrafters was built on. 
> 
> .



Can they make a $750 digital free-form lens w/ AR in an hour? :Rolleyes:

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## LandLord

It doesn't matter if they can make freeform in an hour.  Lenscrafters is a one-hour brand.  I don't think they can change that.  Even if they could, what would they change it to?

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## k12311997

> It doesn't matter if they can make freeform in an hour. Lenscrafters is a one-hour brand. I don't think they can change that. Even if they could, what would they change it to?


 
now that luxottica owns everything.

Lenscrafters is the Boutique  
Pearl is the Doctors that care
Sears - target etc., are cheap but can still get a Chanel when you can't.

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## Spexvet

> Some people are brainless.


Yeah, billionaires who lay off middle class employees are brainless. And heartless.

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## varmint

[QUOTE=Spexvet;334612]No, they don't. They pay employees just enough to ensure that the employees continue making the entrpreneur wealthy. QUOTE]

isn't that what the word "job" means? "just over broke"

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## canaanlilli

> While I agree with many of the points Johns brought up....I can't help but wonder, why they don't start off with cutting the hours back...i.e. close on Sunday? 
> 
> I'm sure that someone at LC has the bird's eye view, and they have looked over the numbers, but from what I know about the operation, it seems that they have stretched themselves to the limit, 7 days a week, some open till late...why not trim the store hours first?


The LC's  have to stay open the hours of the mall they are located in. The 2 LC's here in KC that are freestanding already cut their hours back and are still looking for ways to save money. They also cut the hourly and have the managers work extra hours since they do not make overtime. DelVecchio has spent 10+ years trying to help the company turn an profit, and cut hours in Italy before cutting hours here. As well as Lux has reorganized their reps and cut cost in benefits for everyone. Yes, many employees willingly took paycuts, benefit cuts and commision cuts to help, but it still didn't work.
The reason it didn't work is LUX has gotten to big for it's britches, it bought Cole and restructured LC into a Luxury brand and that screwed them, now they are restructuring back to the old "whole" budget plan and considering selling the Cole companies, but they have to make more drastic cuts now.

Business is business and sometimes you have to cut people and I know that LC and LUX made a lot of cuts in other areas before deciding to do this massive layoff...

You may ask how I know this...1) I worked for them for 8 of my 12 years, 2) I still have friends their, 3) several of them work at home office, and I have several friends in the European office who have kept me up to date.

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## kcount

Interesting, The fact that Lux/LC is cutting back can be displaed in a process called "Winners Dilema"


Where in, a company or individual becomes so large and dominating that its market share results in lowering profits. (ie: reducing prices to insent sales which in turn reduce's profits)

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## Johns

> Entrepreneurs can make others wealthy. However the most important asset an employer can have is good employees.
> 
> Can you run your business by yourself?
> 
> Can ANYONE do it?


Yes, and I know many people that are doing it, or planning to do it.  I plan on opening 3 more stores in the next 7 months, but I don't think I'll ever hire another full-time employee.  What's the incentive to the employer?

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## Johns

> Jubilee does have a point.  Great talent deserves great compensation.


Truly great talent IS compensated.  If not, they can move on.  If they aren't rehired somewhere else, they aren't truly great.

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## Chris Ryser

> *Where in, a company or individual becomes so large and dominating that its market share results in lowering profits. (ie: reducing prices to insent sales which in turn reduce's profits)*


Large company, small companies or independent stores are all in the same boat called "SS Recession "or "SS Depression".
These cruiseships do make their cruises with less passengers, upgrade them to balcony cabins at bargain prices and work with a lot less crew.

These days it does not matter if you make less profit or no profit, as long as you can pay your bills in time. 
None of you would keep employees when the business is not there, when the consumer is not parting with his money, or worse, does not have any money. Many business owners have gone through a hard first few years until the business started to pay off and life became easier. 
These days anyone, large or small,  that started off that way does not want to loose what he built up over the years and has to take the necessary measures.

The only difference between the small operator and the large corporation is that the large corporation suffers many fold more.

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## Johns

> None of you would keep employees when the business is not there, when the consumer is not parting with his money, or worse, does not have any money.


No, but some on this board think that is how it works!:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

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## kcount

[QUOTE=Chris Ryser;335247]Large company, small companies or independent stores are all in the same boat called "SS Recession "or "SS Depression".
These cruiseships do make their cruises with less passengers, upgrade them to balcony cabins at bargain prices and work with a lot less crew.[Quote] 

I always find this interesting, yes we have an economic slow down, and the unemployment level is now near 10%.  But we dint live off of our portfolio, if we're still working, we live off of our pay checks. 



> These days it does not matter if you make less profit or no profit, as long as you can pay your bills in time. 
> None of you would keep employees when the business is not there, when the consumer is not parting with his money, or worse, does not have any money. Many business owners have gone through a hard first few years until the business started to pay off and life became easier. 
> .


Which is ultimately why the entrepreneur went into business. 

Ultimately one has to ask if the question that some people are grappling with is simply,
"Does an employer have a responsibility to an employee?" 
If so, than the answer is simple.

No.

An employer has a simple task, to ensure that the employee has a safe environment to work in, has the tools necessary, and is payed for their time/production. Thats it. Everything from there on is inferred by the employee. There is no guarantee of employment much like the employee did not guarantee they would work.  There is no implied husbandry of the employee's in their life or career unless otherwise expressly stated and documented. 

Lay-offs hurt, as I can attest (my wife was given 60 days notice on Friday). But, it is the responsibility of a company to maintain its viability in a market place. If that means reducing its man power and thus reducing payroll than that is what must happen.

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## Johns

*employee         definition            *  
 em·ployee or employe em·ploy′e (em plo̵i*′*ē, im-; em plo̵i′ē*′*, im-; em′plo̵i ē*′*)
noun
 a person hired by another, or by a business firm, etc., to work for wages or salary


I don't see where some people think that the relationship between an employee and an employer goes past exchanging work for pay.  When profits accompany the endeavor, employees expect more compensation, regardless of whether or not they are doing more work.  However, when the business experiences a loss, the employees don't  give back what they were paid.

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## Jubilee

When the company experiences a loss, yes I expect to have my hours cut or benefits reduced.

Just the same as when I raise our net by 25% compared to the year before for 3 years running, and 5% in a bad economy.. then I would hope my employer shows a bit of loyalty to me, and recognize my contributions to his success.

Be it an office manager who seems to get every dime from those insurances, to a good lab person who can run jobs efficiently along with making the equipment last.. to that new doc who allows us to sell an additional 15-20 pair of glasses a week.. they are all people who are contributing to the profitability of the business.  Anyone of these people worth their salt allows you to net way more than what you pay in their salaries.

You want us to think and act like long term owners.. you want your employees to give a rat's @ss about the business and ways to improve the bottom line. You want people to care about what it is they are doing.. then treat them like they are part owners in your business. I am not saying you need to split the profits down the middle or anything like that. But by providing them with some benefits, recognition, and some loyalty.. is a good way to show them why they should stick with you.

While times are tight, and jobs are scarce.. it wasn't always the case, and most certainly won't remain the case. So what are you doing to retain your employees, besides giving them the benefit of being employed?

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## Chris Ryser

> *So what are you doing to retain your employees, besides giving them the benefit of being employed?*


Actually they are being paid the full cost of the health insurance which covers everything from drugs to dentist and glasses.  4 weeks of holiday per year. 5 day work per week.

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## canaanlilli

> Actually they are being paid the full cost of the health insurance which covers everything from drugs to dentist and glasses.  4 weeks of holiday per year. 5 day work per week.


Wish you were here in KC, I'd love to have those benefits...:D

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## Chris Ryser

Giving good benefits in a fairly profitable business also creates good and faithful employees. I have some that have been on the job more than 25 years.

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