# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  Freeform choices

## MarcE

Barry's got me thinking. I have been contemplating diving into the freeform progressive lenses.  I've been knocking it around for over a year.  But my criteria are tough.  For example, I will only offer freeform to my patients if transitions is available because often transitions is the last thing mentioned and I don't want to have to tell them "sorry, not available".  
So I would like the massive brainpower of the board to help - If you would be so kind.

Here are my criteria:
1. as mentioned, must be available in Transitions
2. must be able to fit as low as 15mm (I'm not going to try a 13mm fit, even if it's possible)
2. must be available in poly, Trivex, 1.60 and at least one of the high-index materials from 1.66 to 1.74.  CR-39 availability is of no value to me.
3. must be a design that someone has had good luck with
4. must have turn-around time (w/AR) of one-week or less
5. THis is the most important:  I must be able to turn a profit at an $80 add-on charge for the "Freeform" processed lens.  And I get my traditionally surfaced lenses pretty inexpensively.

Is there anything even out there?  Maybe I need 2 go-to lenses for these criteria.  My short list includes Accolade freedom (no trivex:( and no personal experience), Definity, Unique, Autograph II (no experience, is cost an issue?), Hoya iD lifestyle (too expensive??), Seiko/pentax internal (Succeed? Superceed? I don't even know the proper name).  I noticed Craig loves the Indo product, but I can't find a lab that even offers it.

I love the combined knowledge and experience of the board, so you are my go-to guys and gals for this type experimental data.

Since this is public, you can PM me with specifics on pricing or any negative comments.

Thanks in advance!!
Marc

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## Fezz

I think the AutoII fits the bill. The Unique may fit most of it. The Seiko will fit most as well.

I suggest you look into:

US Optical-They provide the AutoII, Unique and Seiko. Fast turn times, in house AR.
www.usoptical.com
1-800-445-2773

Or 

Pech Optical-They offer the above as well

www.pechoptical.com

1-800-831-2352

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

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## Jacqui

Rochester Optical is where I get the Autograph II. I'll get contact info up when I can.

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## Uncle Fester

Shamir got it right. The Auto 2 is available in all the materials and add ons we use. I've now dispensed a few with great success.

My one complaint is that the laser etchings are very noticeable especially if it's got an AR. It's so pronounced that I make a point of telling patients they will probable see it if held "at the right angle" but it has to be there, it's not a defect or scratch and to ignore it. 

I'm thinking of getting a sample  but so far no patient has balked upon seeing them. 

One patient with a short corridor said the near was significantly larger than the Brevity I fit her previously.

9/15/2008 More examples--
1st time progressive Rx R-8.50sph. L-8.00sph. add +1.50 poly AR 
Freeform rx R-8.12 -0.38 x66 L-7.64 -0.35x114 add R+1.12 L+1.14
Pts comment "no problem"

Post IOL previous Multigressiv 1.6 R -6.00 Left -6.25 -2.50 x10 add+2.25 
New rx -2.75 -2.25 x170 L -5.75 -1.75 10 add +2.50 B=26 Auto 2 Variable 16.5 high "feels good"

mild myope Definity poly to Auto 2 Variable poly "Oh yeah- nice- ghosting gone"

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## Fezz

Hey Unc-

Incoming PM concerning engravings coming at ya!

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## JerryR

Hi Patsy, welcome!!!
As stated on another post I am affiliated  with Luzerne Optical Laboratories, they are an authorized laboratory for all of the lenses mentioned in your post respones as well as having in-house AR for both Essilor Crizal  coatings and Zeiss Carat coatings amongst others.

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## Jacqui

> Rochester Optical is where I get the Autograph II. I'll get contact info up when I can.



Contact Crickett13 on OB. Matt Ballester is the manager for Rochester Optical that makes the Autograph II and they do have a coating lab on-site.

Contact info is here http://www.optiboard.com/forums/member.php?u=5563

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## Fezz

> Hi Patsy, welcome!!!
> As stated on another post I am affiliated  with Luzerne Optical Laboratories, they are an authorized laboratory for all of the lenses mentioned in your post respones as well as having in-house AR for both Essilor Crizal  coatings and Zeiss Carat coatings amongst others.



Hey Jerry,

Is Luzerne doing any *free-form* in house? If so, what designs are you producing?

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## snowmonster

MarcE:

Forgive the question, but why are you thinking of switching?

I know the Unique is available in nearly every material under the sun, but we've only done one Freeform and it was on a patient I thought would be a total failure.  He did great, but it was his first PAL ever so there's really no comparison.

We just have very few non-adapts with today's PAL's.

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## Fezz

> We just have very few non-adapts with today's PAL's.


Great point Doc!

This is what I struggle with. Believe me, I want to provide the very latest and greatest out there. But, I have not had a bunch of *WOW* going on, so I am reluctant to start offering and charging for it.

Could you use your experience with contact lenses and apply to these free-form lenses?

Meaning...I am sure that you have great success with contact lens wearers  and the various lenses. Why change? Why upgrade to the newest materials? Etc.......You know what I am getting at.

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## MarcE

> MarcE:
> 
> Forgive the question, but why are you thinking of switching?
> 
> I know the Unique is available in nearly every material under the sun, but we've only done one Freeform and it was on a patient I thought would be a total failure.  He did great, but it was his first PAL ever so there's really no comparison.
> 
> We just have very few non-adapts with today's PAL's.


That's a good question.  It's always good to question why you are doing something.
Sure, we have very few non-adapts.  But is it the best vision it can be?  Sure I also struggle with what Fezz is talking about.  THe few definity's we have used generated a few wows, so have quite a few accolade freedoms and accolades non-freedoms and smallfits, for that matter.
1. I want to have a product that I can offer that is the best visually that it can be.  So first I have to be confident that it is better than conventional surfaced lenses.
2. And I want to have a higher-end product for those clients that desire it, or have had problems with previous lenses.

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## snowmonster

Good answers.

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## MarcE

Here is what I learned from this forum and others on Optiboard:


Auto II - available in what I need.  Not much profit margin on any of these.
Definity - Ditto except that the turn-around may be a problem because nobody produces it on-site
Accolade Freedom - Ditto to Definity.  No Trivex, but it does come in 1.60 Trans.

Plan: Order Auto II and and Accolade Freedom to compare to my Definitys.

I have seen many reviews about the Definity.  Any on the Auto II or the Accolade Freedom??

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## Optisyen

Where is Autograph II?
I know only autograph.

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## Jacqui

> Here is what I learned from this forum and others on Optiboard:
> 
> 
> Auto II - available in what I need.  Not much profit margin on any of these.
> Definity - Ditto except that the turn-around may be a problem because nobody produces it on-site
> Accolade Freedom - Ditto to Definity.  No Trivex, but it does come in 1.60 Trans.
> 
> Plan: Order Auto II and and Accolade Freedom to compare to my Definitys.
> 
> I have seen many reviews about the Definity.  Any on the Auto II or the Accolade Freedom??


Autograph II reveiw.

*WOW !!!*

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## Uncle Fester

> I have seen many reviews about the Definity.  Any on the Auto II or the Accolade Freedom??


I'm starting a list of ones I'm starting or switching to Auto 2's. Of the 10 or so so far- Wow's- come from older type progressives. A Mutigressiv 2 and Definity I switched were ok with it just not as enthused. 

I'm trying to track what the many variables that come with any change but until I have a non adopt I'm not complaining.:)

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## MarcE

> Of the 10 or so so far- Wow's- come from older type progressives. A Mutigressiv 2 and Definity I switched were ok with it just not as enthused.


That is a good point.  Is it worthwhile to switch the older type progressives to the new 'Wow' lenses?  What if they have always been happy with their XLs?  Ovations?  SOLAMax?

And secondly.  How do you present this new lens.  Do you just quote a price and don't mention anything about the new great lens or do you try to explain it to them and justify the upcharge?  What is your upcharge BTW?

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## snowmonster

> I'm starting a list of ones I'm starting or switching to Auto 2's. Of the 10 or so so far- Wow's- come from older type progressives. A Mutigressiv 2 and Definity I switched were ok with it just not as enthused.


So that would be 10 out of 12 patients that have been wow'd over by the new PAL's or have you tried them on quite a few more patients than that?

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## KStraker

We have tried the Accolade Freedom and Lifestyle iD lenses. The iD series seems to have more customization and the patient definitely sees the benefit of the digital lens. As you said though, they aren't cheap. Our doctor wore iD's, got a free pair of Acc freedom, then went back to another pair of iD's.

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## MarcE

> We have tried the Accolade Freedom and Lifestyle iD lenses. The iD series seems to have more customization and the patient definitely sees the benefit of the digital lens. As you said though, they aren't cheap. Our doctor wore iD's, got a free pair of Acc freedom, then went back to another pair of iD's.


Thanks for the input.  I'm not sure the Lifestyle iD meets my criteria for turning a profit at an $80 upgrade.  But I'm sure its very good.  An optician on our staff has an original iD and it's her favorite.  But no wow.  But she doesn't have a special Rx.  But she is picky.

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## Jubilee

I *LOVE* my Autograph II. However I will admit it is my one and only pal. Though this by far has been the most comfortable lens I have EVER worn. 

While if I order customized lenses from my traditional labs, I could not make much extra from them.. using a "Digital" lab such as Rochester or a few others who are making freeform their niche, the pricing is quite a bit better.

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## sharpstick777

> Here is what I learned from this forum and others on Optiboard:
> 
> 
> Definity - Ditto except that the turn-around may be a problem because nobody produces it on-site


Freeform lenses are mostly done at specialty processing centers or larger labs because of the special equipment involved, although they are now pushing production farther out on the chain as costs have dropped.  

I get my Definities with A/R in 6 days total even though they are processed by Essilor in Dallas and edged at Meridian in AZ.

A huge difference is how quick your lab is on ordering.  Some wait to order lenses only when they receive the frame, some will only order lenses the next day, some will the instant they recieve the order.

Van

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## AdmiralKnight

We use the Seiko line exclusively as our freeform options. They have three lenses, the Succeed, the Succeed WS and the Supercede. Most people who are hessitent to switch to the freeform lenses ask the question: "Do you get the wow effect from people?" and I can honestly say I have, with the Supercede. 

All three lenses come in great options, transition, polarized (both gray AND brown).

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## Uncle Fester

see examples post #4 9/15/2008

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## Jacqui

> see examples post #4 9/15/2008



???

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## Uncle Fester

> ???


I added to my post #4 in this thread some of the examples of rx's and patient comments I'm getting when I put them into or switch them to Autographs. 

I now realize I should just add another post.:hammer:

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## dkippolito

I use Digital Eye Lab in Hawthorne, NY for Indo products. The lens apparently starts out as a single vision blank and with freeform technology, the lens design and Rx is translated to the back side of the lens. The lab also has a high grade proprietary AR, Claris  HD.

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## Optical1

> Hey Jerry,
> 
> Is Luzerne doing any *free-form* in house? If so, what designs are you producing?


Luzerne scheduled to produce in November. Selling all the brands already at great prices and selling more freeform per day than most who already produce in-house.

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## Uncle Fester

More experiences---
First time progressive monocular (blind OD) OS only mild rx into Auto Variable Transition Poly "No problem".

Panamic poly mild hyperope change to Auto 2 Poly "These feel great!".

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## jroyholmes

You should consider Digital Eye Lab (www.digitaleyelab.com), a division of Optical Distributor Group. 100% dedicated free form lab. Shamir, Seiko, and Indo. In house AR and edging. 48 hour turn time! 

Sorry, i sound a little bias! 

By the way, this is a great forum!

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## mahmoud.hamza

> Barry's got me thinking. I have been contemplating diving into the freeform progressive lenses.  I've been knocking it around for over a year.  But my criteria are tough.  For example, I will only offer freeform to my patients if transitions is available because often transitions is the last thing mentioned and I don't want to have to tell them "sorry, not available".  
> So I would like the massive brainpower of the board to help - If you would be so kind.
> 
> Here are my criteria:
> 1. as mentioned, must be available in Transitions
> 2. must be able to fit as low as 15mm (I'm not going to try a 13mm fit, even if it's possible)
> 2. must be available in poly, Trivex, 1.60 and at least one of the high-index materials from 1.66 to 1.74.  CR-39 availability is of no value to me.
> 3. must be a design that someone has had good luck with
> 4. must have turn-around time (w/AR) of one-week or less
> ...


we are using optotech disigne germany for One year and we are running very well we sell to thye hole TUNISIA and no return lens or in adaptation.
the OPTOTECH machine can make the TRIVEX, transition what ever you want..........
www.optygros.com

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## csiopticians

> Barry's got me thinking. I have been contemplating diving into the freeform progressive lenses.  I've been knocking it around for over a year.  But my criteria are tough.  For example, I will only offer freeform to my patients if transitions is available because often transitions is the last thing mentioned and I don't want to have to tell them "sorry, not available".  
> So I would like the massive brainpower of the board to help - If you would be so kind.
> 
> Here are my criteria:
> 1. as mentioned, must be available in Transitions
> 2. must be able to fit as low as 15mm (I'm not going to try a 13mm fit, even if it's possible)
> 2. must be available in poly, Trivex, 1.60 and at least one of the high-index materials from 1.66 to 1.74.  CR-39 availability is of no value to me.
> 3. must be a design that someone has had good luck with
> 4. must have turn-around time (w/AR) of one-week or less
> ...



Calligraphy have all the materials, see www.profitoptix.com

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## MarcE

> Calligraphy have all the materials, see www.profitoptix.com


No poly (not a huge issue)
No Trivex (that's a bigger issue)
No 1.60 Trans. (That's a small issue too)
Uncut only
Price wasn't what I thought would be competitive
No experience with the AR

Anyone want to add anything

Thanks for your response, Dr.

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## csiopticians

> No poly (not a huge issue)
> No Trivex (that's a bigger issue)
> No 1.60 Trans. (That's a small issue too)
> Uncut only
> Price wasn't what I thought would be competitive
> No experience with the AR
> 
> Anyone want to add anything
> 
> Thanks for your response, Dr.


See www.iltoptics.com 

They have 
Calligraphy R3 (Trivex)
Calligraphy 1.6 Transitions
Bravo 1.6 Transitions

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## pvbirt

I have had many sucess stories with the Auto 11.  My husband says it is the best ever!!!!!

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## Jacqui

> I have had many sucess stories with the Auto 11.  My husband says it is the best ever!!!!!


I have them too, and luv them.

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## Crickett13

Thanks to Jubille and Jacqui for mentioning us. We have recently lowered our pricing on our Autograph pricing since we produce it in house. If anyone needs pricing on it let me know.

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## Lee Prewitt

> Here is what I learned from this forum and others on Optiboard:
> 
> 
> Auto II - available in what I need. Not much profit margin on any of these.


iCoat has strengthened our partnership with Shamir. In so doing, we have actually LOWERED our Auto II prices!  iCoat is the only major AR coater that can apply a top tier AR to all Shamir products.  This is the wrong forum to mention prices but let's say that MarcE will be able to turn a great profit on his Freeform markup!  PM me if you would like more info.

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## soniman

which machine is it the best in the world for freeform tecnology?

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## Uncle Fester

> which machine is it the best in the world for freeform technology?


This should be a new thread imo.

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## Jacqui

> which machine is it the best in the world for freeform tecnology?


You're going to get about 6 different answers to this question and all of them are good.

:cheers:

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## soniman

I am searching these machines but everybody tell different things someone loh or seiko etc.

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## AWTECH

You mention Loh or Seiko but Seiko does not make the machines.  Loh does make machines, while Seiko offers lens designs.

The machines Schneider and Satis Loh and Opto-Tech are the 3 most widely used worldwide and are all successfully producing lens designs from different manufacturers.

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## mahmoud.hamza

We tryed satis and also optotech 
satis is good for power range 
optotech is good for quality of the surface 
with the satis until, now (more then 2 years) we can not make a good trivex lenses but with optotech we make a very nice trivex surface also for the POLY 

if we sill by another one it will be OPTOTECH 
regards

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## CCrawford

*Digital Eye Lab* 
This is our fully automated spectacle lens laboratory 100% focused on the fabrication of Freeform® Digitally surfaced backside PALs and single vision lenses. Every lens is engineered to account for the minutest variations in prescription, face measurements and frame measurements. This results in eye wear truly personalized to your patients needs and lifestyle. To ensure that orders arent delayed, all finishing services including: edging, drill mounting, tinting, and applying the most advanced AR coating, _ClarisHD_, are done in-house; the turn around time is approximately 3 days  
The Widest Selection of Materials & Designs from Shamir, Seiko, Indo, and Digital 5.0 with pricing that can help you increase your profit margins!
http://digitaleyelab.com

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## Mr.Powers

you can get it in 14-16-18 mm progression

in my book this lens is amazing ( im to lazy to measure out for Auto II and i dont think the custemers can tell the difference)


best regards

Peter

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## OCP

> you can get it in 14-16-18 mm progression
> 
> in my book this lens is amazing ( im to lazy to measure out for Auto II and i dont think the custemers can tell the difference)
> 
> 
> best regards
> 
> Peter


The largest difference between the new Autograph Plus and Autograph II is the design- and power compensation in Auto II. It really give a noticeable difference for the user.

But the new Autograph Plus do make a large improvement from the previus Autograph and put this product in a a whole new liga for standardized freeform lenses.

Mike

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## SailorEd

> Hi Patsy, welcome!!!
> As stated on another post I am affiliated with Luzerne Optical Laboratories, they are an authorized laboratory for all of the lenses mentioned in your post respones as well as having in-house AR for both Essilor Crizal coatings and Zeiss Carat coatings amongst others.


Fantastic Lab.  I use them exclusively.

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## Robert Martellaro

> The largest difference between the new Autograph Plus and Autograph II is the design- and power compensation in Auto II. It really give a noticeable difference for the user.
> 
> But the new Autograph Plus do make a large improvement from the previus Autograph and put this product in a a whole new liga for standardized freeform lenses.
> 
> Mike


Maybe like the Rodenstock Hyperop? I suspect that the Auto 2 is optimized more for myopes, and not so much for hyperopes, especially the moderate to strong plus wearer. I'm a moderate myope, and can not directly experience what a stronger hyperope experiences when wearing PALs. Any information you have would be welcome.

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## OCP

> Maybe like the Rodenstock Hyperop? I suspect that the Auto 2 is optimized more for myopes, and not so much for hyperopes, especially the moderate to strong plus wearer. I'm a moderate myope, and can not directly experience what a stronger hyperope experiences when wearing PALs. Any information you have would be welcome.


The Auto Plus is quite new here (it´s been named Spectrum as well) so my knowledge to this product is reduced. The Auto Plus is a new generation of the previus Auto Classic. The Auto Classic was build on the Genesis platform thus it´s much better than this. The Auto Plus is build on the Creation platform. It has been improved even more so what you get, compared to the previus Auto, is flatter base curves, lower astigmatic abberations, softer design, better distance and intermedia, three different zone lenghts (14, 16 & 18). What you NOT get, compared to Auto II, is design and Pow compensating that brings you even more clear vision, and noticeable better intermedia. 

We still dont have any experience with this new lens so I will get back to that as soon we have some customer feedback.

Mike

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## Robert Martellaro

> The Auto Plus is quite new here (it´s been named Spectrum as well) so my knowledge to this product is reduced. The Auto Plus is a new generation of the previus Auto Classic.


That might be what we call the "Element" here in the states. 





> The Auto Classic was build on the Genesis platform thus it´s much better than this. The Auto Plus is build on the Creation platform. It has been improved even more so what you get, compared to the previus Auto, is flatter base curves, lower astigmatic abberations, softer design, better distance and intermedia, three different zone lenghts (14, 16 & 18). What you NOT get, compared to Auto II, is design and Pow compensating that brings you even more clear vision, and noticeable better intermedia.


Got it. It should be a very good lens if the PAL design is based on the Creation. It'll be interesting to see how it's priced. 




> We still dont have any experience with this new lens so I will get back to that as soon we have some customer feedback.
> 
> Mike


Thanks Mike. I'll do the same.

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## Mr.Powers

It seams like Autograff II is the only lens on the market that all user of optiboard can agree on is a great lens, just like varilux comfort 10 yaers ago.


best regards

Peter

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## OCP

> That might be what we call the "Element" here in the states.


Hi Robert.

No the Element is a generic version of Autograph.
Auto Plus is a totally new design.

Mike

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## OCP

> That might be what we call the "Element" here in the states. 
> 
> 
> Got it. It should be a very good lens if the PAL design is based on the Creation. It'll be interesting to see how it's priced. 
> 
> Thanks Mike. I'll do the same.


Hi Robert

I just receive the data for Autograph Plus to put in my EyeView. Still no customer feedback, but the plot looks amazing, but still need some more information.

Three different plots, in 14-16 and 18 mm design.

Mike

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## Fezz

> Still no customer feedback, _but the plot looks amazing,_ but still need some more information.
> 
> Three different plots, in 14-16 and 18 mm design.
> 
> Mike



The plots look amazing?

They................................look amazing?

They look amazing.........compared to what?

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## OCP

> The plots look amazing?
> 
> They................................look amazing?
> 
> They look amazing.........compared to what?



Compared to older generations of Freeform optics the Autograph Plus design looks very innovative. 
Shamir new aspherical design for clear vision in oblique angels, makes the plot looks a lot more different than previous designs. 

The new designs from Shamir minimize the abberations level in the lens (makes the area with clear vision bigger), by putting some of the distortion/abberations outside the frame, in the bottom (you cut it of). See attached comparison.

Mike

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## Mr. Finney

Maybe it's just me, but the Classic plot looks better to me.

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## Fezz

> Maybe it's just me, but the Classic plot looks better to me.


 
I am no plot reading genius..............but I am picking up what you are dropping!

What am I missing here?

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## OCP

> Maybe it's just me, but the Classic plot looks better to me.


By first glance your right.
But if you measure the width of the reading area it´s amazing on the new Plus. Almost total width.

I´m looking forward to see the lens in true life.

Mike

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## Mr. Finney

Why is it that in the first set of plots both lenses are listed as lefts, but the Classic looks mysteriously right-oriented?  And, okay, so the near area has significantly less astigmatic error, but the things that are more important to me, i.e. clear distance and corridor width, look better in the Classic.  I'm not knocking the new lens, I'm just not seeing a huge upgrade.

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## OCP

> Why is it that in the first set of plots both lenses are listed as lefts, but the Classic looks mysteriously right-oriented?  And, okay, so the near area has significantly less astigmatic error, but the things that are more important to me, i.e. clear distance and corridor width, look better in the Classic.  I'm not knocking the new lens, I'm just not seeing a huge upgrade.


The plot can mostly being used as "Design picture". Not that "this is how it works". I tell you, that we have here 8 years of development, so I´m sure it works better.
It´s a flatter design as well.

Mike

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## OCP

> Why is it that in the first set of plots both lenses are listed as lefts, but the Classic looks mysteriously right-oriented?  And, okay, so the near area has significantly less astigmatic error, but the things that are more important to me, i.e. clear distance and corridor width, look better in the Classic.  I'm not knocking the new lens, I'm just not seeing a huge upgrade.


Please don´t be concerned with details about left and right.
These plot are only simple "Cylinder-plots". I can tell you that the spherical power is much wider in the intermediate zone than in the Classic Autograph.

Mike

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## Fezz

> *Please don´t be concerned with details* about left and right.
> These plot are only simple "Cylinder-plots". I can tell you that the spherical power is much wider in the intermediate zone than in the Classic Autograph.
> 
> Mike


 
Yeah Mr. Finney!

STOP getting so wrapped up in details! OCP has already told us that these plots look "AMAZING".

If he says that they look "AMAZING", than dammitt, they are "AMAZING"!

What more do you want, sheesh!

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## OCP

> Yeah Mr. Finney!
> 
> STOP getting so wrapped up in details! OCP has already told us that these plots look "AMAZING".
> 
> If he says that they look "AMAZING", than dammitt, they are "AMAZING"!
> 
> What more do you want, sheesh!


Wow, what an statement.
Thanks.

Obvious this plot only looks like a draw made by a child to you.
But for me this plot is really amazing, because it shows design development, and not only an upgrade from previous designs.
I´m sure the new Autograph Plus will be a decent improvement from the Classic Autograph.

Mike

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## Robert Martellaro

The slightly wider intermediate comes at a price- it looks like slightly more astigmatism at the distance periphery. I'm not sure I agree with the trade-off, although it would make this an easier lens to fit, more forgiving of inaccurate horizontal positioning of the optics. The unwanted surface astigmatism is a very good 1.50 DC for a +2.00D Add, pretty much state of the art performance for the latest generation of lenses. Might be a giant killer if it's priced to be competitive with the most expensive traditionally ground PALs.

But the proof is in the pudding- it looks like another lens that I'll have to try in front of my eyes.

Mike, 

Any chance you have the surface plots for the AUTO 2 fixed 18 and 15 on hand?

Thanks

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## OCP

> The slightly wider intermediate comes at a price- it looks like slightly more astigmatism at the distance periphery. I'm not sure I agree with the trade-off, although it would make this an easier lens to fit, more forgiving of inaccurate horizontal positioning of the optics. The unwanted surface astigmatism is a very good 1.50 DC for a +2.00D Add, pretty much state of the art performance for the latest generation of lenses. Might be a giant killer if it's priced to be competitive with the most expensive traditionally ground PALs.
> 
> But the proof is in the pudding- it looks like another lens that I'll have to try in front of my eyes.
> 
> Mike, 
> 
> Any chance you have the surface plots for the AUTO 2 fixed 18 and 15 on hand?
> 
> Thanks


Hi Robert.

Here you are in four different fixed designs.

As you can see, we got very small areas with cylinder astigmatism.
Please note, that these plots are only cylinder plots. The pupil is placed in the white cross, so the distortion/abberations is very low placed and therefor the Auto II brings you fully 5-175 degree of clear vision.
We got spherical power plots as well, but these can be difficult to understand prober, so I will only public the cylinder plots to avoid any misinformation.



Mike

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## geoflem

*I have had a lot of luck with the freedom accolade and the turnaround time dropped dramatically at the end of the year/ we get $389(1.670) for accolade with ar,src,uv.  I tell patients who just have to have a frame with a small b measure that this is the best lens for that type of frame due to frame optimization.*

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## sharpstick777

> The machines Schneider and Satis Loh and Opto-Tech are the 3 most widely used worldwide and are all successfully producing lens designs from different manufacturers.


Rodenstock and many others use the Schneider's in their own labs...  if that tells you anything.  The new Scheider Sprint line is both small and much less expensive than anything else I have seen.

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## AWTECH

> Rodenstock and many others use the Schneider's in their own labs... if that tells you anything. The new Scheider Sprint line is both small and much less expensive than anything else I have seen.


I am not sure what your point was, but all of the machine manufacturers now have a small line at similar price points.

Differences between the small and larger lines have to do with features such as speed of processing and ability to fully automate the line.  

Nothing against Schneider and their small line but they are not the only supplier with equipment in that price point.

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## Optoanomalicious

C'mon Guys, 

Freeform technologies has always been pioneered by first, Rodenstock, and second, Carl Zeiss.  Rodenstock has been the pioneer for freeform technology.  The only thing that would be missing for you would be the material, since they dont have poly.  However, their material is quite strong because they have just replenished their older 1.52 index to 1.54 for all of their photochromic products.  

And last but not least, hope you dont mind with the colormatic, not transitions.

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## barryh66

> *Digital Eye Lab* 
> This is our fully automated spectacle lens laboratory 100% focused on the fabrication of Freeform® Digitally surfaced backside PALs and single vision lenses. Every lens is engineered to account for the minutest variations in prescription, face measurements and frame measurements. This results in eye wear truly personalized to your patients needs and lifestyle. To ensure that orders arent delayed, all finishing services including: edging, drill mounting, tinting, and applying the most advanced AR coating, _ClarisHD_, are done in-house; the turn around time is approximately 3 days  
> The Widest Selection of Materials & Designs from Shamir, Seiko, Indo, and Digital 5.0 with pricing that can help you increase your profit margins!
> http://digitaleyelab.com


Digital eye lab should be all you claim it to be, but having a rash of problems lately I called and talked to Michael the "go to guy". Come to find out they have not been inputting pow measurements on must job He said "it makes no differences". I asked if online ordering is coming soon and was told they had it. If you go to there web site you can fill out a form and print it they then will input that into the order taking. I received a +5.00 sph instead of +0.50 because someone reentered it wrong. It seems they think new equipment makes up for experience.  I do several thousand a month there but may start looking else where.

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## CCrawford

Digital Eye Lab is the only lab in the US that produces Indo.  We also have our own D5 family of lenses that meet every criteria you mentioned below.  I'd love to help you get in contact with a local rep.  If you pm me with your information, I will make sure you get a couple of vouchers with our catalogue to get you started.




> Barry's got me thinking. I have been contemplating diving into the freeform progressive lenses.  I've been knocking it around for over a year.  But my criteria are tough.  For example, I will only offer freeform to my patients if transitions is available because often transitions is the last thing mentioned and I don't want to have to tell them "sorry, not available".  
> So I would like the massive brainpower of the board to help - If you would be so kind.
> 
> Here are my criteria:
> 1. as mentioned, must be available in Transitions
> 2. must be able to fit as low as 15mm (I'm not going to try a 13mm fit, even if it's possible)
> 2. must be available in poly, Trivex, 1.60 and at least one of the high-index materials from 1.66 to 1.74.  CR-39 availability is of no value to me.
> 3. must be a design that someone has had good luck with
> 4. must have turn-around time (w/AR) of one-week or less
> ...

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## CCrawford

I apologize for the rash of problems that you have experienced lately.  I disagree with the statement that the POW measurements make no difference; in a typical "brown-round" that may have been the case but when was the last time you sold one of those?  Yes, we have great default measurements for the jobs that come in without them, but if you are taking the time with the patient to get those 3 extra measurements and you're providing us with that information, we should definitely be using them to even further customize the lenses. POW measurements make all the difference in the world to the patient, especially if the lenses are going into a more trendy frame style.  As to the order entry errors and the experience of our customer service representatives, I can only say that we do make mistakes and although the company-wide spoilage rate is pretty low, we still haven't achieved perfection.  I'd like to know what we've done to take care of the situations so if you'd like to pm me, I'd be happy to help, maybe even put the orders in myself if you'd like to fax them over to me.  I can't promise I'll never make a mistake but I will check, check and double check. :-)




> Digital eye lab should be all you claim it to be, but having a rash of problems lately I called and talked to Michael the "go to guy". Come to find out they have not been inputting pow measurements on must job He said "it makes no differences". I asked if online ordering is coming soon and was told they had it. If you go to there web site you can fill out a form and print it they then will input that into the order taking. I received a +5.00 sph instead of +0.50 because someone reentered it wrong. It seems they think new equipment makes up for experience.  I do several thousand a month there but may start looking else where.

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## samuel

Who's ever tried the nice Tokai Japanese designs Resonas? It seems you see with the brain and not with the eyes!

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