# Conversation and Fun > Just Conversation >  Where have all the leaders gone???

## hcjilson

Lee Iacocca has published a new book Where Have all the Leaders Gone?.Someone sent me link to an excerpt. I found it by scrolling down the page.
Occasionally when you read something it hits home, sometimes harder than you expect. At the risk of starting something that may quickly get out of hand, I send this link to Optiboarders in the hope that whatever dialog is produced will be within posting guidelines.

Iacocca mirrored my feelings perfectly and articulated them much better than I could have. You will find it by scrolling down the page.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info./

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## Steve Machol

Wow. I have a newfound respect for that man.

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## gemstone

Just the scroll down was quite a political indoctrination. I was pretty sure where it was heading. It was like , let's take a walk with sandy sheehan or Micheal Moore.

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## Fezz

Thanks for the link.

Although I may or may not agree with the political slant that was taking, it was a very good article. Thanks for posting. If we all tried the "Nine C's of Leadership" just imagine what a better world we could build! I'll work harder at them from now on.

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## Bill West

....with all this knowledge he did'nt run for public office. Much too busy making big bucks. Lee always was and still is a "great bull s*itter". Too late Lee go back to bed.:finger:

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## gemstone

What's with all the scrolling hcjilson?  Why did you not just post the link to the piece?  You must have wanted to indoctrinate us with all this anti American babble.

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## Judy Canty

Thanks to Harry's link, I picked up the book.  It's emminently readable and confirms what I've been saying and thinking for several years.  Thanks again Harry.

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## DragonLensmanWV

> What's with all the scrolling hcjilson?  Why did you not just post the link to the piece?  You must have wanted to indoctrinate us with all this anti American babble.


What? You have this in your sig
				*** Please ignore offensive matter. Sorry for any inconvenience of discomfort.
But you seem to get easily offended. This is not The United States Of The Offended.

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## Steve Machol

I find it both ironic and disturbing that people who believe in protecting the rights and freedoms enshrined in the Constitution are labeled as 'anti-American' and those that subvert and destroy these rights are the 'patriotic Americans'.  It brings chilling reminders of what happened in many pre-totalitarian regimes. 

Hopefully people are waking up to this type of propoganda and demagoguery.

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## chip anderson

As to where have all the leaders gone?   They were the generation that served in WWII and WWI, they are rapidly disappearing and being replaced by the hippies that followed who are leaders only in thier own minds.

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## Steve Machol

> As to where have all the leaders gone? They were the generation that served in WWII and WWI, they are rapidly disappearing and being replaced by the hippies that followed who are leaders only in thier own minds.


Yep, those darn hippies Bush and Cheney! ;)

If they try to serve you Brownies or Kool-Aid - don't do it! :D

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## k12311997

I'll admit to scrolling fast to keep from losing my lunch but didn't see the link anyone want to post a direct link please.

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## DragonLensmanWV

> I'll admit to scrolling fast to keep from losing my lunch but didn't see the link anyone want to post a direct link please.



It has moved to a different page. Here's the direct link.
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle17516.htm

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## k12311997

> It has moved to a different page. Here's the direct link.
> http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle17516.htm


 
Thanks.

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## hcjilson

> What's with all the scrolling hcjilson?  Why did you not just post the link to the piece?  You must have wanted to indoctrinate us with all this anti American babble.


You must be a lot smarter than I....Why don't you just try to post the link to someone and see what happens....

If you call that anti american babble I suggest you return to our constitution and re-read it. You evidently missed the point the first time.

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## gemstone

> You must be a lot smarter than I....Why don't you just try to post the link to someone and see what happens....
> 
> If you call that anti american babble I suggest you return to our constitution and re-read it. You evidently missed the point the first time.


http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

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## hcjilson

Now that you've read it, please feel free to quote any part of Iacocca's essay you found to be anti American.

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## gemstone

*

This With Catherine Whitney bothers me a bit.  I wonder just how much of this is hers.*
*By Lee Iacocca with Catherine Whitney*


 Am I the only guy in this country who's fed up with what's happening? Where the hell is our outrage? We should be screaming bloody murder. I am angry too, at all the politians that said we must go to war, only to coward away when they found out what war really was. Not the American way. 

 We've got a gang of clueless bozos steering our ship of state right over a cliff, we've got corporate gangsters stealing us blind, and we can't even clean up after a hurricane much less build a hybrid car. (Lee made cars.) But instead of getting mad,(MAD?) 

Congress responds to record deficits by passing a huge tax cut for the wealthy (thanks, but I don't need it).
I got a tax cut and I was happy to get it 

The most famous business leaders are not the innovators but the guys in handcuffs.  I remember reading an article about the "famous" Lee and the 100s of millions he was getting paid by large bankrupt corporation. (that still laiys off workers by the thousands. I bought a Chrysler once. The motor locked up at 13,000. 

While we're fiddling in Iraq, the Middle East is burning and nobody seems to know what to do. And the press is waving pom-poms instead of asking hard questions.  Typical politics of today (if you need something to ***** about) ***** about all the whinning and no offer of any practical alternative solution. 

I've had enough. How about you? I'll go a step further. You can't call yourself a patriot if you're not outraged. (You already tried to make that point Lee) 
Where are the voices of leaders who can inspire us to action and make us stand taller? What happened to the strong and resolute party of Lincoln? What happened to the courageous, populist party of FDR and Truman? There was a time in this country when the voices of great leaders lifted us up and made us want to do better. Where have all the leaders gone?


*The following is good stuff espicially if you are a CEO of a large company making a speach to your junior excutives.  Great speach. * 
*The Test of a Leader*
I've never been Commander in Chief, but I've been a CEO. I understand a few things about leadership at the top. I've figured out nine points, not ten (I don't want people accusing me of thinking I'm Moses). I call them the "Nine Cs of Leadership." They're not fancy or complicated. Just clear, obvious qualities that every true leader should have. We should look at how the current administration stacks up. Like it or not, this crew is going to be around until January 2009. Maybe we can learn something before we go to the polls in 2008. Then let's be sure we use the leadership test to screen the candidates who say they want to run the country. It's up to us to choose wisely.

A leader has to show CURIOSITY. He has to listen to people outside of the "Yes, sir" crowd in his inner circle. He has to read voraciously, because the world is a big, complicated place. George W. Bush brags about never reading a newspaper. "I just scan the headlines," he says. Am I hearing this right? He's the President of the United States and he never reads a newspaper? Thomas Jefferson once said, "Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate for a moment to prefer the latter." Bush disagrees. As long as he gets his daily hour in the gym, with Fox News piped through the sound system, he's ready to go.

If a leader never steps outside his comfort zone to hear different ideas, he grows stale. If he doesn't put his beliefs to the test, how does he know he's right? The inability to listen is a form of arrogance. It means either you think you already know it all, or you just don't care. Before the 2006 election, George Bush made a big point of saying he didn't listen to the polls. Yeah, that's what they all say when the polls stink. But maybe he should have listened, because 70 percent of the people were saying he was on the wrong track. It took a "thumping" on election day to wake him up, but even then you got the feeling he wasn't listening so much as he was calculating how to do a better job of convincing everyone he was right.

A leader has to be CREATIVE, go out on a limb, be willing to try something different. You know, think outside the box. George Bush prides himself on never changing, even as the world around him is spinning out of control. God forbid someone should accuse him of flip-flopping. There's a disturbingly messianic fervor to his certainty. Senator Joe Biden recalled a conversation he had with Bush a few months after our troops marched into Baghdad. Joe was in the Oval Office outlining his concerns to the President, the explosive mix of Shiite and Sunni, the disbanded Iraqi army, the problems securing the oil fields. "The President was serene," Joe recalled. "He told me he was sure that we were on the right course and that all would be well. 'Mr. President,' I finally said, 'how can you be so sure when you don't yet know all the facts?'" Bush then reached over and put a steadying hand on Joe's shoulder. "My instincts," he said. "My instincts." Joe was flabbergasted. He told Bush,"Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough." Joe Biden sure didn't think the matter was settled. And, as we all know now, it wasn't. Leadership is all about managing change, whether you're leading a company or leading a country. Things change, and you get creative. You adapt. Maybe Bush was absent the day they covered that at Harvard Business School.

A leader has to COMMUNICATE. I'm not talking about running off at the mouth or spouting sound bites. I'm talking about facing reality and telling the truth. Nobody in the current administration seems to know how to talk straight anymore. Instead, they spend most of their time trying to convince us that things are not really as bad as they seem. I don't know if it's denial or dishonesty, but it can start to drive you crazy after a while. Communication has to start with telling the truth, even when it's painful. The war in Iraq has been, among other things, a grand failure of communication. Bush is like the boy who didn't cry wolf when the wolf was at the door. After years of being told that all is well, even as the casualties and chaos mount, we've stopped listening to him.

A leader has to be a person of CHARACTER. That means knowing the difference between right and wrong and having the guts to do the right thing. Abraham Lincoln once said, "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." George Bush has a lot of power. What does it say about his character? Bush has shown a willingness to take bold action on the world stage because he has the power, but he shows little regard for the grievous consequences. He has sent our troops (not to mention hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens) to their deaths. For what? To build our oil reserves? To avenge his daddy because Saddam Hussein once tried to have him killed? To show his daddy he's tougher? The motivations behind the war in Iraq are questionable, and the execution of the war has been a disaster. A man of character does not ask a single soldier to die for a failed policy.

A leader must have COURAGE. I'm talking about balls. (That even goes for female leaders.) Swagger isn't courage. Tough talk isn't courage. George Bush comes from a blue-blooded Connecticut family, but he likes to talk like a cowboy. You know, My gun is bigger than your gun. Courage in the twenty-first century doesn't mean posturing and bravado. Courage is a commitment to sit down at the negotiating table and talk. 

If you're a politician, courage means taking a position even when you know it will cost you votes. Bush can't even make a public appearance unless the audience has been handpicked and sanitized. He did a series of so-called town hall meetings last year, in auditoriums packed with his most devoted fans. The questions were all softballs.

To be a leader you've got to have CONVICTION, a fire in your belly. You've got to have passion. You've got to really want to get something done. How do you measure fire in the belly? Bush has set the all-time record for number of vacation days taken by a U.S. President, four hundred and counting. He'd rather clear brush on his ranch than immerse himself in the business of governing. He even told an interviewer that the high point of his presidency so far was catching a seven-and-a-half-pound perch in his hand-stocked lake. It's no better on Capitol Hill. Congress was in session only ninety-seven days in 2006. That's eleven days less than the record set in 1948, when President Harry Truman coined the term do-nothing Congress. Most people would expect to be fired if they worked so little and had nothing to show for it. But Congress managed to find the time to vote itself a raise. Now, that's not leadership.

A leader should have CHARISMA. I'm not talking about being flashy. Charisma is the quality that makes people want to follow you. It's the ability to inspire. People follow a leader because they trust him. That's my definition of charisma. Maybe George Bush is a great guy to hang out with at a barbecue or a ball game. But put him at a global summit where the future of our planet is at stake, and he doesn't look very presidential. Those frat-boy pranks and the kidding around he enjoys so much don't go over that well with world leaders. Just ask German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who received an unwelcome shoulder massage from our President at a G-8 Summit. When he came up behind her and started squeezing, I thought she was going to go right through the roof.

A leader has to be COMPETENT. That seems obvious, doesn't it? You've got to know what you're doing. More important than that, you've got to surround yourself with people who know what they're doing. Bush brags about being our first MBA President. Does that make him competent? Well, let's see. Thanks to our first MBA President, we've got the largest deficit in history, Social Security is on life support, and we've run up a half-a-trillion-dollar price tag (so far) in Iraq. And that's just for starters. A leader has to be a problem solver, and the biggest problems we face as a nation seem to be on the back burner.

You can't be a leader if you don't have COMMON SENSE. I call this Charlie Beacham's rule. When I was a young guy just starting out in the car business, one of my first jobs was as Ford's zone manager in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. My boss was a guy named Charlie Beacham, who was the East Coast regional manager. Charlie was a big Southerner, with a warm drawl, a huge smile, and a core of steel. Charlie used to tell me, "Remember, Lee, the only thing you've got going for you as a human being is your ability to reason and your common sense. If you don't know a dip of horse**** from a dip of vanilla ice cream, you'll never make it." George Bush doesn't have common sense. He just has a lot of sound bites. You know, Mr.they'll-welcome-us-as-liberators-no-child-left-behind-heck-of-a-job-Brownie-mission-accomplished Bush. Former President Bill Clinton once said, "I grew up in an alcoholic home. I spent half my childhood trying to get into the reality-based world, and I like it here." I think our current President should visit the real world once in a while.

The Biggest C is Crisis Leaders are made, not born. Leadership is forged in times of crisis. It's easy to sit there with your feet up on the desk and talk theory. Or send someone else's kids off to war when you've never seen a battlefield yourself. It's another thing to lead when your world comes tumbling down. On September 11, 2001, we needed a strong leader more than any other time in our history. We needed a steady hand to guide us out of the ashes. Where was George Bush? He was reading a story about a pet goat to kids in Florida when he heard about the attacks. He kept sitting there for twenty minutes with a baffled look on his face. It's all on tape. You can see it for yourself. Then, instead of taking the quickest route back to Washington and immediately going on the air to reassure the panicked people of this country, he decided it wasn't safe to return to the White House. He basically went into hiding for the day, and he told Vice President Dick Cheney to stay put in his bunker. We were all frozen in front of our TVs, scared out of our wits, waiting for our leaders to tell us that we were going to be okay, and there was nobody home. It took Bush a couple of days to get his bearings and devise the right photo op at Ground Zero. That was George Bush's moment of truth, and he was paralyzed. And what did he do when he'd regained his composure? He led us down the road to Iraq, a road his own father had considered disastrous when he was President. But Bush didn't listen to Daddy. He listened to a higher father. He prides himself on being faith based, not reality based. If that doesn't scare the crap out of you,I don't know what will. 

*I really was not trying to kick Ol' Lee.   Just all that other anti American crap on the host "information Clearing house" .   Look's like someone wants to pluhish the bad, the whole bad and NOTHING BUT the bad about the USA.    I am not retired, so I have to work now . I don't have enought spare time to write speaches , I 'd wished I had had time to write back when I wasa boss of a big Company.*
*I think Lee was for sure a needed (by chrysler) guy in his time.  Have you noticed that Andy Rooney is starting to lose it a bit too. Not to mention Kennedy.  Anyway you got to show respect for these old guys.*

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## hcjilson

You really didn't find anything anti American in what you read..... Why didn't you just say so rather than ramble on.

The reason we post links to articles, rather than the article itself is that readers tend not to wade through lengthy posts. I just read only the blue print above, having read the entire article only a few days back. Perhaps I missed something you thought was anti American....but I doubt it.

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## gemstone

Kiss my foot!:D   *THE SITE THAT HOSTED THE ARTICLE IS* anti American.    Hey HC, we've discussed these things (with others) enought that I am pretty sure I am not gonna change the way you feel and I know very well you aren't  going to change my thinking.    We just believe different truths.  Everything has been written from the ultimate, pure truth to the crapiest bull crap.   People tend to believe what they choose.  Sorry to ramble, but that where are the leaders article,  as great as is was , had it's share of rambling.

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## DragonLensmanWV

> *
> *
> 
> *I really was not trying to kick Ol' Lee.   Just all that other anti American crap on the host "information Clearing house" .   Look's like someone wants to pluhish the bad, the whole bad and NOTHING BUT the bad about the USA.    I am not retired, so I have to work now . I don't have enought spare time to write speaches , I 'd wished I had had time to write back when I wasa boss of a big Company.*
> *I think Lee was for sure a needed (by chrysler) guy in his time.  Have you noticed that Andy Rooney is starting to lose it a bit too. Not to mention Kennedy.  Anyway you got to show respect for these old guys.*


Does that mean you favor censorship? That site is "Fair and Balanced" with the opposite prejudice than Fox News.
I disagree with some of the stuff there too. but do you think it's better to ignore any bad things and just think happy thoughts? I think it's better to know about the slimy underbelly and try to find ways to stop it and fix it so our country doesn't look like a big hypocritical bully to the rest of the world. Freedom of speech means you're gonna hear and see stuff you don't like or agree with.But to ignore everything that's not rosy is to diminish yourself. If the bad angers enough people, it will be changed. And while the US is still the best country, anyone who thinks it's totally perfect and needs no changes or adjustments is an irresponsible citizen.

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## gemstone

> Does that mean you favor censorship? That site is "Fair and Balanced" with the opposite prejudice than Fox News.
> I disagree with some of the stuff there too. but do you think it's better to ignore any bad things and just think happy thoughts? I think it's better to know about the slimy underbelly and try to find ways to stop it and fix it so our country doesn't look like a big hypocritical bully to the rest of the world. Freedom of speech means you're gonna hear and see stuff you don't like or agree with.But to ignore everything that's not rosy is to diminish yourself. If the bad angers enough people, it will be changed. And while the US is still the best country, anyone who thinks it's totally perfect and needs no changes or adjustments is an irresponsible citizen.


What gives you the idea I favor cinsorship?  I saw no balance.  I am in favor of free speach as well.  I incourage it.  So I will know where everyone stands.  I don't like the site.  They only find bad in me and my fellow countrymen. 
As I have said before.  Everything has been written from the ultimate, pure truth to the crapiest bull crap. People tend to believe what they choose.

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## hcjilson

> Kiss my foot!:D   *THE SITE THAT HOSTED THE ARTICLE IS* anti American.    Hey HC, we've discussed these things (with others) enought that I am pretty sure I am not gonna change the way you feel and I know very well you aren't  going to change my thinking.    We just believe different truths.  Everything has been written from the ultimate, pure truth to the crapiest bull crap.   People tend to believe what they choose.  Sorry to ramble, but that where are the leaders article,  as great as is was , had it's share of rambling.


I was referring to the article, not the site. I know nothing about the site other than originally I had to scroll through a lot of articles to get the one I wanted to read, and when I tried to post a link to it, I was unable to, so I posted a link to the site.

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## gemstone

> I was referring to the article, not the site. I know nothing about the site other than originally I had to scroll through a lot of articles to get the one I wanted to read, and when I tried to post a link to it, I was unable to, so I posted a link to the site.


That explains the missunderthanding. :cheers: Buy you a beer.  Its Friday and 5 oclock somewhere

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## Judy Canty

Now, how many of you are going to buy and read the book?  I did and it was worth my money and my time.

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## Fezz

> :cheers: Buy you a beer.  Its Friday and 5 oclock somewhere



Yeah, my place!  And the blasted clock is broken. So, I set the time to 5:01!


This rounds on me!



:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::che  ers:

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## Pete Hanlin

Thanks for the link to the article, Harry.

Usually when one sees the type of emotivist language used by Mr. Iaccoca in his article, its due to a lack of substance to the argument.  In this case, however, I think the tone is due to the passion of the author- so I found myself able to overlook it.

As to the nine "Cs," I found them to be rather insightful.  However, I do not agree with the assertion that President Bush is particularly lacking in them- at least not to a level that exceeds the shortcoming of our other "leaders."  (I thought the attempt to portray Sen. Biden as a more "creative" leader was almost comical- it read like a campaign advertisement.)

The assertion that President Bush is somehow lacking in character is where I felt Mr. Iacocca lost credibility.  Deriding someone's decisions after the fact (and with the clarity hindsight provides) is easy enough.  I'm not suggesting the war in Iraq has been a success (although it hasn't exactly been a failure, either).  I still believe there was a legitimate reason to begin the war- and there is still value to seeing it through (even if the campaign has admittedly led to a quagmire).  Why does believing that necessarily mean I "don't care" about the soldiers who have given their lives in that war?    

I do agree with Mr. Iacocca on one point... I'm tired of it all.  I'm tired of Republicans who couldn't get anything substantive accomplised even when they controlled Congress and the White House.  I'm tired of the "same tune- different band" being played by the current holders of power in Congress.  I'm especially tired of the tabloid media (right wing, left wing, and otherwise).

My suggestion?  "Turn on, tune in, drop out" (instead of LSD, however, I suggest jazz music and a nice wine).  Humbug on all of em- including Mr. Iacocca.

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## hcjilson

Ahh Pete.....You're to YOUNG to remember LSD!! Now me, on the other hand...........................................what was I saying?

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## rbaker

Abandoning the political soap box and returning to the question and topic of this post *Where have all the leaders gone???*** I am of the opinion that our Nation abounds with leaders. One just does not find them in the political arena these days. Partisan politics and a media out of control present anyone with a grain of common sense from throwing his or her hat into the ring with an incessant attack on their character, morality and motivation.

You will find leaders galore in business, commerce and the military. That is where leadership skills are developed and nurtured; not in the political arena. There is a vast difference between leadership and politics. The two seldom mix.

Iacocca was more the manager than the leader. And, he seems to have forgotten the single most important trait of a true leads  he leads from the front. Iacocca lead from the rear by terrorizing line and middle managers. He politicized Chryslers poor management and subsequent financial problems and sought a solution in the political arena. 

In any case, who among us would put ourselves and our families through the hell of a political campaign? The true leaders of today remain where they are and where they can truly make changes in our society.

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## hcjilson

> Iacocca was more the manager than the leader. And, he seems to have forgotten the single most important trait of a true leads – he leads from the front. Iacocca lead from the rear by terrorizing line and middle managers. He politicized Chrysler’s poor management and subsequent financial problems and sought a solution in the political arena.


He asked for help, he got help, and he paid back every nickel. If you are old enough to remember him at Crysler, you will remember him being out in front each step of the way. He led from the front and did whatever it took to get the job done. If that meant terrorizing line and middle management personel, then thats what it meant. Certainly the old ways were not working at Chrysler before Iacocca. The folks at Ford thought he was a pretty good leader as well. They put in in charge of the Mustang project in the early 60's. He was out in front with that one too, up to and including unveiling and hyping the new product all over the country. I have personal knowledge of this because I saw him do it in person.

A manager IS a leader. Management is defined as Planning, Directing . Controling, and Exectuting.

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## chip anderson

Has anyone noticed that all our presidents that could be concidered 'Great" with the exception of FDR (who I personally don't concider great but most others do) were generally good military men who participated in wars they won??  The military men who were not good presidents participated in wars or were in service in wars we  lost.

Chip

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## Steve Machol

Jefferson (who sat out the Revolutionary War.) 

Lincoln (no military experience.)

Reagan (again no military experience.)

Grant (won the war but not a 'great' President.)

I don't think that analogy holds honestly.

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## DragonLensmanWV

> Jefferson (who sat out the Revolutionary War.) 
> 
> Lincoln (no military experience.)
> 
> Reagan (again no military experience.)
> 
> Grant (won the war but not a 'great' President.)
> 
> I don't think that analogy holds honestly.


Funny, you could ask 50 people to make a list of the three worst Presidents and the three best Presidents. I would bet that there would be a lot of them on some Best lists that would also be on some Worst lists.

My Worst:
Nixon
Johnson
Bush #2

My Best:
Kennedy
Eisenhower
Washington

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## Pete Hanlin

Dragon,

Very insightful... I would add that you could probably put the same Presidents on BOTH lists- depending on the criteria of the list.

For example, Kennedy would go on my best list for "inspirational leadership" (the man literally pointed us to the moon), but on my worst for decision making ability (if the war in Iraq is considered to be ill-conceived, what can one make of the Bay of Pigs fiasco?).

Overall, my list of best and worst (all things considered), would be:
*Best (History of the US):*
Lincoln
Washington
Wilson

*Best (My lifetime):*
Bush I

*Worst (History of the US):*
Buchanan (sadly, the only President from my home state)
Harding
Grant (he was an awesome General, however- and wrote a fascinating biography)

*Worst (My lifetime):*
Carter

*BEST & WORST (depending on the vantage point):*
Kennedy
Nixon
FDR

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## DragonLensmanWV

> Dragon,
> 
> Very insightful... I would add that you could probably put the same Presidents on BOTH lists- depending on the criteria of the list.
> 
> For example, Kennedy would go on my best list for "inspirational leadership" (the man literally pointed us to the moon), but on my worst for decision making ability (if the war in Iraq is considered to be ill-conceived, what can one make of the Bay of Pigs fiasco?).
> 
> Overall, my list of best and worst (all things considered), would be:
> *Best (History of the US):*
> Lincoln
> ...


True, true. Many Presidents excel at foreign policy, only to be dismal at domestic affairs, or vice-versa.
I thought Carter was a very nice man, with some good domestic ideas, but was pathetic at foreign policy. And he was hamstrung by the Reaganites vis-a-vis arms for hostages. Still, his overall performance was very poor, but not he worst in my lifetime IMHO.That's a tie with Nixon and Johnson for me.At least Bay Of Pigs, however poorly organized, didn't result in over 3000  dead Americans and who knows how many hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.
G.H.W. Bush was a very effective President, he just screwed up by not taking out Saddam when he had the opportunity. Yeah, he would've PO'd a few allies, but the region would probably be in better shape now than it is.Notice how much more trustworthy Cheney was back then?

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## Pete Hanlin

Alas, LBJ was before my time- or he would have easily been my pick for "Worst in My Lifetime."

As you mention, President Carter was probably one of the nicest Presidents we've ever had- so I hate to knock him just for being inept.  Also, I do not hold the Iran Hostage situation against Carter (I would even put the botched rescue attempt down to military misfortune rather than poor leadership).

However, his handling of the gas shortage- and more importantly, SALT- was abysmal (oh, and you just cannot use the word "malaise" in a nationally televised speech).  

LBJ was a truly horrid President (something tells me even he realized his shortcoming as CIC), but- next to Ford- he inherited the biggest political mess.

So, in my lifetime- from best to worst...
*Bush I* (given resume, perhaps the most qualified CIC in US history)
*Reagan* (great communicator, lucky to be CIC in historically significant- and economically prosperous- era)
*Clinton* (great communicator, economically prosperous- but otherwise insignificant- era)
*Nixon* (great abilities, bereft of personal character, his own worst enemy)
*Ford* (only unelected President- made lemonade out of lemons)
*Bush II* (even with a pass on Iraq, haven't seen anything on Soc.Sec- which was major plank in platform)
*Carter* (great man, no leadership ability)

The person in my lifetime I would have most LIKED to see as President... Well, if Senator Lieberman would have been on the top of the 2000 ticket, I would have voted Democrat.  I think Senator Dole would have also made a dignified (if unimaginative) President.  

Also, though he was too smart to run (don't think he ever even entertained a primary run), Sen. Alan Simpson would have been AWESOME.

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## chip anderson

No one wants , Teddy Rosevelt, Andrew Jackson, or Lincon for the best?

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## Pete Hanlin

Actually, Lincoln was on my list.  

Theodore Roosevelt is an interesting character (I mean, not many Presidents have the distinction of being shot in the middle of a political speech- _and finishing the speech before agreeing to go to the hospital_)!  Visitors to our National Parks also owe a debt of gratitude to this President.  I would probably designate the Rough Rider as the "Most Manly Man" of all our Presidents.

Andrew Jackson is another interesting President (ironically, all three on your list experienced assassination attempts- Jackson and Roosevelt survived)...  Jackson was one of the more "down to earth" Presidents (born in a log cabin, no college education, and all that).  Of all the Presidents who originated from a Southern state (other than Virginia), Jackson is probably the best.

I'm surprised no one has listed Thomas Jefferson.  One would think the author of the Declaration of Independence and the man behind the Louisiana Purchase would get some love...

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