# Conversation and Fun > Just Conversation >  Gas prices

## Spexvet

I just bought gas for $1.91 9/10. Anybody else see the price coming down?

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## Lee Prewitt

Out West here the price has come down from $2.54 to $2.39.  :angry:   Still too much!

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## Jubilee

Oh so you don't want to hear about me filling up yesterday at $1.84/gal?Of course in WA there are more state taxes in there as well.

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## karen

Isn't it interesting that I now think $2.49 is CHEAP???!!!!  Was paying 2.70-ish a few moths back.

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## rsandr

> I just bought gas for $1.91 9/10. Anybody else see the price coming down?


Mmmmmmh "gas" is the equivalent of about $7.5 per gallon here in the UK.
Dunno how you Americans manage to get your hands on so much cheap oil:bbg:.
Oooops, controversial:hammer:.

Rick

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## Jacqui

Bought some last night for $2.17 down from $2.40

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## chip anderson

There is _plenty_ of oil.  If you greenies would just let us drill in the Gulf and build a few refineries we could go down to 75 cents.  The rigs are *GOOD* for the environment, fish love them.Chip

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## Lee Prewitt

> Oh so you don't want to hear about me filling up yesterday at $1.84/gal?Of course in WA there are more state taxes in there as well.


You got that right!  Our lovely Democratic Legislature jsut raised the gas tax by .09.  That is after the people voted it down last time!  They also raised a bunch of other taxes that we voted no for and put in a clause that the people can't change it!  Can't wait for the next elections!!!  :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

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## rbaker

Right on, Chip. The environmentalist whackos have us paying through the nose for all of our natural resources. We cant drill for oil and we cant cut down trees. Just wait till they find out that we use polycarbonate. We will be prevented from harvesting the polycarbonate bush. Think of all the little children that will go blind.

We, in the USA, have a legacy of cheap oil. Our grand manufacturing economy was built on the availability of cheap and plentiful energy. Other countries are not so fortunate. If you are paying seven bucks of money for a gallon of gas, tough tuba. Get over it. Get a bicycle. 

Lets get going on developing the inland and coastal oil patch and while we are at it, a new refinery in Hyannis, MA might be in order. How about we start the construction of a whole bunch of nuclear power plants. Lets get back to the good old days of $0.32.9 a gallon gas.

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## rsandr

> We, in the USA, have a legacy of cheap oil. Our grand manufacturing economy was built on the availability of cheap and plentiful energy. Other countries are not so fortunate. If you are paying seven bucks of money for a gallon of gas, tough tuba. Get over it. Get a bicycle.


In a twisted way I rather enjoy the high fuel prices in the UK. 
When the world is finally goosed I can sit back proudly and declare that there wasn't much more I could have done while the greedy Yanks were p*ss*ng away all the natural resources and spewing masses of cr&p into the atmosphere.
Keep up the good work.:D

Rick

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## Spexvet

> There is _plenty_ of oil. If you greenies would just let us drill in the Gulf and build a few refineries we could go down to 75 cents. The rigs are *GOOD* for the environment, fish love them.Chip


This just in.....

The republicans have allowed me to drill for oil in Chip's back yard and dump all the waste into his basement. More cheap oil for the war effort!;)

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## Blake

If they'd come up with a marketable fuel cell/electric technology, the price of gasoline would be irrelevant.

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## Spexvet

Jimmy Carter implemented tax credits for alternative energy sources. One of the first things Dutch Reagan did, when he entered office, was to scrap them. 

Conservatives want everything to be like it was back in the good old days....high gas prices for instance.:angry:

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## chip anderson

Spexvet:  Wasn't it under Carter that we had the gas lines?

The good Old Days were the 1950's and gas was 19 cents. 

If Dear Jimmy had the cahones to stand up to the Aiatola and ask him which city he would like destroyed first during the hostage crisis (which just the news of Dutch Reagan's election was enough to end) no Arab would hold us hostage for oil or anything else today.

Chip
Freedom must always be paid for in blood.  Preferably that of the enemy.

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## rbaker

Please refrain from reminding us of the Carter administration. Those were truly dark days.

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## Spexvet

> Please refrain from reminding us of the Carter administration. Those were truly dark days.


Carter in 2008??? He IS eligible, you know.

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## 35oldguy

In the good ole days I remember old lady Hudson starting price wars in Kansas. The least price I paid was 12.9 per gallon or maybe less.

I guess the good ole days were berfore Carter!

In Guatemala we have been paying lately Q23.00 per gallon. In $$$ that is about $3.00 per gallon. No end in sight!





> Spexvet: Wasn't it under Carter that we had the gas lines?
> 
> The good Old Days were the 1950's and gas was 19 cents. 
> 
> If Dear Jimmy had the cahones to stand up to the Aiatola and ask him which city he would like destroyed first during the hostage crisis (which just the news of Dutch Reagan's election was enough to end) no Arab would hold us hostage for oil or anything else today.
> 
> Chip
> Freedom must always be paid for in blood. Preferably that of the enemy.

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## coda

> If they'd come up with a marketable fuel cell/electric technology, the price of gasoline would be irrelevant.


Ah, but where does all that wonderful hydrogen for the fuel cells come from?  It's either extracted from petrolum products or produced by the dissasociation of water which requires energy which comes from......petrolum.  Hydrogen fuel cells do little to reduce energy costs or help the environment.  It's a smoke and mirrors game.

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## chm2023

In 1975 35% of our petroleum was imported; in 2001, 55%; in 2025 the Energy Dept projects 68%. 


Why? There's a lot of huffin' and puffin' about this--environmentalists won't let new refineries be built blah, blah, blah. That's a lot of smoke, the reason is clear and simple: it's way cheaper and way more plentiful to import than to produce domestically.


And in our wisdom, we invent the SUV, underfund mass transit and build larger and larger homes--the street below ours has a new 8500 square foot house, single family dwelling.  Whaaa????????

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## Spexvet

And when all the petroleum is gone, we'll find an alternative for transportation and electricity, but can we find an alternative for plastics and medicine?

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## coda

> And when all the petroleum is gone, we'll find an alternative for transportation and electricity, but can we find an alternative for plastics and medicine?


Interestingly with repsect to plastics the answers appears to be yes.  There are a number of 'bio-plastics' actively being developed for a number of uses at the moment.  Precursors include corn and soy beans and the plastics being produced (Polylactic Acid or PLA seems to be getting the most press) perform like bad polyproplyene (milk jug plastic).  Toyota is incorporating these materials into their floor mats and at least one company is aggressivly marketing bioplastic body panels for automobiles.

Regarding drugs...... not my field but I'd guess similar approaches will take place.  In fact I expect that genetically modified plants, animals or bacteria will be producing pharmaceuticals in the future.

In any regard the amount of petrolum used for non-fuel uses is vanishingly small and even as we exhaust the supply extraction techniques will improve so *presuming we identify alternative energy sources* I don't see an issue with running out of petroleum.  Of course it does all hinge on some alternative source.

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## chip anderson

We ain't running out of Petrolium in this century and probably not in the next.  Just Petrolium in areas that we are allowed to extract it and refineries that we are allowed to build in correct areas.   We have enough natural gas in the land area of the U.S. for 300 years (of course the price is going up but this is slight of hand politics.)   We have plenty of oil that we have caped because "it wasn't ecconomical" at $15.00 a barrel.  It's sure ecconomical now, but someone is waiting for the price to go up.

Not to mention that the latest theories seem to point to Oil being a re-newable resourse like water and salt.

Chip

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## ken@foothills

> Mmmmmmh "gas" is the equivalent of about $7.5 per gallon here in the UK.
> Dunno how you Americans manage to get your hands on so much cheap oil:bbg:.
> Oooops, controversial:hammer:.
> 
> Rick


Your right Rick, why is our gas so cheap in the U.S.?  Every day that I drive to work I see these big SUV's driving down the road and I can't imagine the amount of gas that they are burning.  Also, the 5 or 10 thousand square foot homes that need to be heated and cooled.  Someday this is going to come back and bite us in the butt.

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## chm2023

> Your right Rick, why is our gas so cheap in the U.S.? Every day that I drive to work I see these big SUV's driving down the road and I can't imagine the amount of gas that they are burning. Also, the 5 or 10 thousand square foot homes that need to be heated and cooled. Someday this is going to come back and bite us in the butt.


Other countries try to restrict driving so they tax gasoline at a very high rate.  Money funds good mass transit, less driving means less emissions, less driving promotes healthier lifestyle with walking, biking.  But hey, what's that compared to a Hummer?

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## 35oldguy

In Guatemala, where every family member works to make ends meet to survice we are seeing less cars on the highways due to higher gasoline prices. Since people have stopped driving as much the price of gas is going down!

Just a suggestion, pretend your economic situation is not good. Walk when you can. Get some good ole exercise! It is healthier! Save money! Do not give it to the oil producing countries. Be American! Spend it at home!!!!!




> Other countries try to restrict driving so they tax gasoline at a very high rate. Money funds good mass transit, less driving means less emissions, less driving promotes healthier lifestyle with walking, biking. But hey, what's that compared to a Hummer?

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## Jedi

> Other countries try to restrict driving so they tax gasoline at a very high rate. Money funds good mass transit, less driving means less emissions, less driving promotes healthier lifestyle with walking, biking. But hey, what's that compared to a Hummer?


Calgary, probably the most oil rich city in Canada if not NA, has a terrible public transit system. It can't keep up with the sprawl of the city. If I'm not mistaken Calgary is one of the largest cities in the world.(sq. miles or km)Our gas prices just went up to $.90 a LITER. That's almost 4 bucks a gallon.

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## chm2023

> Calgary, probably the most oil rich city in Canada if not NA, has a terrible public transit system. It can't keep up with the sprawl of the city. If I'm not mistaken Calgary is one of the largest cities in the world.(sq. miles or km)Our gas prices just went up to $.90 a LITER. That's almost 4 bucks a gallon.


I'm sure there are lots of examples of places where there is bad mass transit and high gas prices.  Western Europe and Japan are the places I was thinking of--large geography and spread out population are not ideal for this model I would think.

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## Jedi

> I'm sure there are lots of examples of places where there is bad mass transit and high gas prices. Western Europe and Japan are the places I was thinking of--large geography and spread out population are not ideal for this model I would think.


When my wife and I lived in the downtown core it was fantastic. You could walk to work, shopping, bars etc. We never needed a car and didn't have one for 5 years (it was very Friends).Then we decided to buy a home and the area that suited us bested (cost/value) were out in the sticks with no transit. We hope in the next couple years we will be able to move back closer to the core.

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## Spexvet

Filled up the van yesterday for $50.:drop:  :cry:

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## rbaker

ExonMobile 1st quarter 2005 dividends in at $0.29 a share. Stock up 10% since the first of the year. Thank you grandpa Baker for the 100 shares that you bought for me on my birth in 1940. Thank you for instilling in me the principals of capitalism. 

I am also grateful for resisting the many impulses in past years to sell and buy toys or engage in some brain storm and become Mr. Big Shot.

Today, the dividends alone pay all the fuel costs for my big scary Republican SUV, Town Car and motor home. 

How sweet it is.

Dick

www.aerovisiontech.com

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## chm2023

> ExonMobile 1st quarter 2005 dividends in at $0.29 a share. Stock up 10% since the first of the year. Thank you grandpa Baker for the 100 shares that you bought for me on my birth in 1940. Thank you for instilling in me the principals of capitalism. 
> 
> I am also grateful for resisting the many impulses in past years to sell and buy toys or engage in some brain storm and become Mr. Big Shot.
> 
> Today, the dividends alone pay all the fuel costs for my big scary Republican SUV, Town Car and motor home. 
> 
> How sweet it is.
> 
> Dick
> ...


 
Let's hope your Exxon/Mobil stock doesn't go the way of GM stock.  Never say never I guess!  (Your e-mail made me chuckle:  my brother in law drives a Town Car.  His kids call it "the Republican car".  I don't get that necessarily, but it always reminds me of funerals...:bbg:  Different strokes as they say!)

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## Spexvet

> ExonMobile 1st quarter 2005 dividends in at $0.29 a share. Stock up 10% since the first of the year. Thank you grandpa Baker for the 100 shares that you bought for me on my birth in 1940. Thank you for instilling in me the principals of capitalism. 
> 
> I am also grateful for resisting the many impulses in past years to sell and buy toys or engage in some brain storm and become Mr. Big Shot.
> 
> Today, the dividends alone pay all the fuel costs for my big scary Republican SUV, Town Car and motor home. 
> 
> How sweet it is.
> 
> Dick
> ...


Your mother must be proud of you.

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## rsandr

> Other countries try to restrict driving so they tax gasoline at a very high rate. Money funds good mass transit, less driving means less emissions, less driving promotes healthier lifestyle with walking, biking. But hey, what's that compared to a Hummer?


We'll talk again when you have your first heart attack.

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## coda

> We'll talk again when you have your first heart attack.


more walking and biking = less heart attacking

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## ken@foothills

Give me big fat butts and SUV'S in the good of the USA

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## chm2023

> more walking and biking = less heart attacking


What he said!  More walking would make us all heathier and alleviate traffic--PED POWER!!!!

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## rbaker

chm2023 $ ken@foothills

You just wait! Town Cars & SUVs become medical devices when you get old. I actually lost a $100.00 bet last summer when I could not get into a friends Miata. I even had help. I recall when Bill Russells comment on his retirement from the Celtics the legs go first.. All those years of sex, drugs and rock & roll take their toll. 

Mass transit is an economic loser requiring vast sums of tax payer money. 

Ownership and equity in American businesses is a long term investment. I understand fully that we live in a now now now culture of immediate gratification today. Over the years GM has provided jobs and wealth to hundreds of thousands of Americans. My opinion is that GM and the other American auto companies are in a market position today that will improve as production moves offshore to their international partners and divisions. We have to look at the long term picture, 10. 20, 30 years.

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## chm2023

> chm2023 $ ken@foothills
> 
> You just wait! Town Cars & SUVs become medical devices when you get old. I actually lost a $100.00 bet last summer when I could not get into a friends Miata. I even had help. I recall when Bill Russells comment on his retirement from the Celtics the legs go first.. All those years of sex, drugs and rock & roll take their toll. 
> 
> Mass transit is an economic loser requiring vast sums of tax payer money. 
> 
> Ownership and equity in American businesses is a long term investment. I understand fully that we live in a now now now culture of immediate gratification today. Over the years GM has provided jobs and wealth to hundreds of thousands of Americans. My opinion is that GM and the other American auto companies are in a market position today that will improve as production moves offshore to their international partners and divisions. We have to look at the long term picture, 10. 20, 30 years.


 
I can see the Town Car, but my mother can't get into a SUV;  hell, I have a hard time!!!!

And you know you wouldn't trade your wild days of debauchery for anything!!!  (Just think how p***ed off you'd be if the legs were gone and all you had to think back on were Young Republican meetings!;))  Rock(er) on!!!!

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## jediron1

Spexvet
I just bought gas for $1.91 9/10. Anybody else see the price coming down?[/QUOTE]

8-15-2005
Coming down? I just paid $2.45 per gal. and saw on tv that in Calif it just surpassed 3.00 bills. Man I remember when I was seventeen and I could get 
3 gals for $.75 and go for ever in my Corvair. :Cool:

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## chip anderson

Today: I heard the worst fear of all.  The  legislatures will see the taxes from increased gasoline prices as a windfall.  See high tax collections in the last  quarter and think this is spending spree time at the spring legislative session.   Will have a pork list never before seen.:idea: 


Chip

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## karen

just paid 2.85 in Palm Springs yesterday (12 cents higher than closer to home but couldn't make it home on an empty tank  :shiner: )

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## ziggy

Came to work monday morning gas was 2.38, I had a half a tank and thought I'd stop after work to fill up, because gas goes up mid week.Of course it jumped to *$2.69* by the time I got off work! I just love the way the press tries to make us feel beter by telling us that "In England they are paying upwards of $6.00 a gallon!". Like any of us give a crap what they are paying. I'm in the process of buying a goat and a pull cart. If any one knows of a good one.....:bbg:

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## GOS_Queen

Just saw this on the Today Show ~  you can look up to see the cheapest prices in your area ...  


www.gasbuddy.com

www.gaspricewatch.com 

Karen  :Nerd:

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## 35oldguy

In Guatemala we pay $3.00 plus a gallon.

It is time to stop buying gasoline for about a month so the supply will go up. Then maybe the price will go down.

Those Arabs are getting richer along with our President's family. They are in the the oil business you know!!!





> Came to work monday morning gas was 2.38, I had a half a tank and thought I'd stop after work to fill up, because gas goes up mid week.Of course it jumped to *$2.69* by the time I got off work! I just love the way the press tries to make us feel beter by telling us that "In England they are paying upwards of $6.00 a gallon!". Like any of us give a crap what they are paying. I'm in the process of buying a goat and a pull cart. If any one knows of a good one.....:bbg:

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## ziggy

> In Guatemala we pay $3.00 plus a gallon.
> 
> It is time to stop buying gasoline for about a month so the supply will go up. Then maybe the price will go down.
> 
> Those Arabs are getting richer along with our President's family. They are in the the oil business you know!!!


Thats not a bad idea, dont buy gas for a month and then I'll loose my job(because I cant get to work) then the car and the the house which is heated by gas. I'm going to stick with the goat!! :cry:

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## Shwing

Gas just went to $1.03 per litre in Edmonton. With the exchange rate and conversion to USD, I am paying the equivilent of *$3.22 per gallon*!!!

And this is in Alberta, the oil capital of Canada...

Keep in mind, 40% of the price at the pump is tax...

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## 35oldguy

Ziggy:

Look aT IT THIS WAY. hOW MORE MONEY WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO PUT IN YOUR SAVINGS ACCOUNT?? Ask your President Bush how large his savings account is?!!!

Back in the 70's I recall their was a shortage of supply. The price went up. We then went to car pooling. Depending on your aGE YOU MAY OR MAY NOT REMEMBER them days. America is just plain LAZY. People are overweight!! Health is not what it used to be. Many things are just way out of balance. I bet your check does not keep up with inflation. Maybe if you gave up a lot of those so caLLED LUXURIES YOU WOULD NOT NEED SO MUCH. 




> Thats not a bad idea, dont buy gas for a month and then I'll loose my job(because I cant get to work) then the car and the the house which is heated by gas. I'm going to stick with the goat!!

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## ziggy

35, My first reaction to your post was to tell you to kiss my ***. But then I thought better of it. I do have a lot of luxuries, food, a clean home, medical care, education for my kids etc. No we dont live in squaler because gas prices is up, but it does affect how I live my life,,,and I dont like it. If that makes me lazy,,well then you *CAN* kiss my ***.:o

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## 35oldguy

Sorry Ziggy but my response was directed to a group of people not you personally. No I will not kiss your ***!!! Most people in the United States are lazy and would rather ***** their life away and complain. It is just as easy to think postive as it is negative but most people are negative. That is why 98% of people do not succeed in life.

Everyone can save money but they need to do it collectively to make a difference. Just like the woman that camped out at Bush's ranch in Texas. She is making a difference!!! She has made the ultimate sacrifice!! She lost a son to Iraq!! Whoever voted that guy in it was a vote for big business and higher gasoline prices!!!

It is high time the American people get off their *** and start doing something to improve their lives!!!!!!!!!





> 35, My first reaction to your post was to tell you to kiss my ***. But then I thought better of it. I do have a lot of luxuries, food, a clean home, medical care, education for my kids etc. No we dont live in squaler because gas prices is up, but it does affect how I live my life,,,and I dont like it. If that makes me lazy,,well then you *CAN* kiss my ***.:o

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## hcjilson

> Gas just went to $1.03 per litre in Edmonton. With the exchange rate and conversion to USD, I am paying the equivilent of *$3.22 per gallon*!!!
> 
> And this is in Alberta, the oil capital of Canada...
> 
> Keep in mind, 40% of the price at the pump is tax...


Yesterday Nantucket checked in at 3.25 which was (as of yesterday) the highest in the US. I harken back to a post I made some time back asking the question "What is it about the statement ' It's ALL about oil!" that you don't understand.?" I remember a few of our brethren and sistren took issue with that.They are conspicuous by their silence today.

The arabs are happy, the "oilmen" are happy, the oil companies are happy, the stockholders are happy and finally the politicians are happy.Aren't we about the greatest good for the greatest number?? ;)

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## Spexvet

> Aren't we about the greatest good for the greatest number?? ;)


Yes, we DEMOCRATS are.

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## 35oldguy

In Brazil they are making a different type of fuel. It works! Why doesn't some big business in the USA do the same thing. Instant MILLIONaires!!




> Yesterday Nantucket checked in at 3.25 which was (as of yesterday) the highest in the US. I harken back to a post I made some time back asking the question "What is it about the statement ' It's ALL about oil!" that you don't understand.?" I remember a few of our brethren and sistren took issue with that.They are conspicuous by their silence today.
> 
> The arabs are happy, the "oilmen" are happy, the oil companies are happy, the stockholders are happy and finally the politicians are happy.Aren't we about the greatest good for the greatest number?? ;)

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## jediron1

35oldguy
Sorry Ziggy but my response was directed to a group of people not you personally. No I will not kiss your ***!!! Most people in the United States are lazy and would rather ***** their life away and complain. It is just as easy to think postive as it is negative but most people are negative. That is why 98% of people do not succeed in life.

Everyone can save money but they need to do it collectively to make a difference. Just like the woman that camped out at Bush's ranch in Texas. She is making a difference!!! She has made the ultimate sacrifice!! She lost a son to Iraq!! Whoever voted that guy in it was a vote for big business and higher gasoline prices!!!

It is high time the American people get off their *** and start doing something to improve their lives!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

And this is coming from a clown that is living: "In Guatemala we pay $3.00 plus a gallon". This guy is living in Guatemala and trying to tell us how we should live. Maybe gas is higher but Im sure you have cheap labor, just ask Wal-Mart. Wow the gall of some people where did you grow up in Beverly Hills?:hammer:

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## spartus

Paid $3.05/gal yesterday. Makes me happy I walk to work.

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## Jacqui

I ride a bike to work. Paid $2.93 this AM

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## For-Life

> In Brazil they are making a different type of fuel. It works! Why doesn't some big business in the USA do the same thing. Instant MILLIONaires!!


I am pretty sure that Ethanol is their main source of fuel.  However, from my understanding it is still more expensive that gasoline.  I think this is why you have not seen it enter the market.

I think we better get used to the high price of energy now, because we will see alternatives but they will be no cheaper.

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## Jacqui

In the Midwest we have E85 fuel available, 85% ethinol 15% gasoline, about $0.80 to $1.00 cheaper than regular gas.

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## jediron1

Jacqui]
ride a bike to work. Paid $2.93 this AM[/QUOTE]


"I ride a bike to work" but I "Paid $2.93 this AM"! I guess I missed the point!:hammer: 
I just filled my Car-Van cost $40.00 for 15 gal. $2.59 per gal. :Cool: 

PS I noticed the premium grade as they call it was $2.89

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## jediron1

spartus
Paid $3.05/gal yesterday. Makes me happy I walk to work.[/QUOTE]

I would love to walk to work but that would be a 12 mile hike each way and during the winter that would be in possible. Kind of hard to walk 12 miles in below zero weather that we get here in December,January and Feb. Ouch please pass the foot warmers please!;)

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## SkiBunny

The NIMBY crowd will see to it that coastal drilling and especially refineries don't happen in the US

As for ANWR, that requires Bush to unilaterally break a signed treaty with Canada, which supplies more oil & gas to the US than any other nation in the world. ANWR drilling is seen in canada as a big slap, just like the Bush Admin's big tariffs on softwood lumber (which have been ruled illegal by the WTO and increase the cost of new houses in the US)... But bush of course is a corporation disguised as a human being, and a self-proclaimed conservative who in actuality runs huge deficits and is anti-free-trade (re: steel, food, softwood, etc)

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## rinselberg

NIMBY --?

I had to look that up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMBY

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## chip anderson

I have a patient, who is a college professor who rides a bicycle wherever he goes.  He smells like he rides a bicycle everywhere he goes.  

I would ride a bicycle to work (a good 5 mile ride) every day if: My office had a shower and I had a change of clothes there.  But until I do, I'll ride alone in my S-10.

Chip

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## Chris Ryser

> *I would ride a bicycle to work (a good 5 mile ride) every day if: My office had a shower and I had a change of clothes there. But until I do, I'll ride alone in my S-10.* 
> Chip


How about getting yourself a Honda, Yamaha or Vespa scooter...............49cc would use a tank full (1 gallon) every 2 weeks for the distance you are going, and you would not need a shower or a change of clothes.

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## chip anderson

Chris:  I love motorcycles and I have knees in 3 colors from them.  But my wife says she would name it as correspondent in a divorce.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

Also my Texas machismo upbringing wouldn't let me ride anything under 500 cc.

Chip
:cheers:

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## Chris Ryser

> *Chris:*
> *1) ....... I love motorcycles and I have knees in 3 colors from them. But my wife says she would name it as correspondent in a divorce.*
> 
> *Thanks for the suggestion though.*
> 
> *2)...........Also my Texas machismo upbringing wouldn't let me ride anything under 500 cc.*
> :cheers:


 
1) Due to elevated gas prices the wifes allowance has to be cut by the percentage the gas prices went up. Due to a lower allowance the wife will suggest you drive a vehicle using less gas.

2) *Old age and colored knees* would suggest that the "Texas machismo" should be suppessed by logical reasoning. Therfore a 49cc would be in good order as a gas saver to get wifes allowance to former level.

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## jediron1

rinselberg
NIMBY --?

I had to look that up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMBY[/QUOTE]

I looked it up too! Can you print that?:D

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## jediron1

chip anderson
I have a patient, who is a college professor who rides a bicycle wherever he goes. He smells like he rides a bicycle everywhere he goes. 

I would ride a bicycle to work (a good 5 mile ride) every day if: My office had a shower and I had a change of clothes there. But until I do, I'll ride alone in my S-10.

Chip[/QUOTE]

I had one come in riding a Harley and he smelled worse than I think the Harley did! But he does get good gas milage.:D

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## Chris Ryser

> *The NIMBY crowd will see to it that coastal drilling and especially refineries don't happen in the US*


i checked too:

*NIMBY* (Not In My Back Yard) is a pejorative acronym for the phenomenon where local residents (NIMBIES) object to proposed development of new facilities near their homes or within their communities. The protested facilities can be anythingincluding housing, schools, roads, shopping, or public transit

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## rinselberg

> Can you print that?


You mean this?

NIMBY
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. 

NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) is a pejorative acronym for the phenomenon where local residents (NIMBIES) object to proposed development of new facilities near their homes or within their communities. The protested facilities can be anythingincluding housing, schools, roads, shopping, or public transit.

NIMBIES advance a number of arguments against the proposed development. While sometimes acknowledging the need for such developments, NIMBIES may claim that new development will increase local traffic, hurt small business, decrease property values, degrade the environment, or generally strain public resources. Other times, iffor instancea big-box store is planned, NIMBIES object that the store will be disproportionately used by non-locals, while degrading the quality of life for locals.

Critics of NIMBIES claim that NIMBIES are motivated more their own isolationist attitudes, individualistic needs, and unwillingness to be inconvenienced by civic concerns. Critics claim that the new developments are needed, and they may accuse the NIMBIES of having the drawbridge mentality.

NIMBYISM can bee seen as a byproduct of several attitudes. It stems from a hyper-individualism in which the interests of the individual blind the individual from appreciating the needs of their community. It stems from pastoralism, which holds urbanism and development to be breeding grounds for corruption, crime, and needless complexity while less developed areas are thought to be paradises of purity, rejuvenation, and beautiful simplicity. And it also stems from the conservative attitude of wanting to be left alone from the onslaught of modern evils.

When NIMBYISM dominates political battles, it sets of a chain reaction that promotes urban sprawl. Because population grows continuously, new developments must be built somewhere. If suburban NIMBIES make developers unwelcome, developers can simply avert lengthy political fights by building in less developed areas on the outskirts of suburbia, where NIMBY opposition cannot galvanize. When many developers build large developments on the outskirts, they fuel the pattern of low-density development known as sprawl. NIMBIES who squelch local development may have preserved the quality of life in the immediate future for themselves, but in the long term they are actually diminishing the quality of life at the regional for everyone, since sprawl causes many problems, including increased traffic and longer commutes.

NIMBYISM often promotes homogeneity of communities. For instance, amongst the affluent NIMBYs most hotly contested form of developments are low-income housing and halfway houses. NIMBIES object that these developments will attract crime and lower property values. By opposing these lower socioeconomic brackets, NIMBIES oppose diversity. If any development is likely to be welcomed by NIMBIES, they are developments that are like whats already therehousing (and shopping) for people of the same socioeconomic brackets. NIMBIES perceive this homogenious development as the least threatening.

When NIMBIES oppose development, the issue may be presented by both sides as an either/or issues (i.e. either we build it here or we dont). As population grows, the reality is that new development must be built somewhere. The real question is not whether to build it, but where (and how) to build it. From a broader perspective, residents must also consider how they want their communities to grow. Advocacy groups like the Sierra Club tout Smart Growth an alternative to NIMBY's push for conservation and the developer's push for growth.

See also

*	hypocrisy
*	Drawbridge mentality
*	BANANA
*	NIABY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMBY

----------


## jediron1

rinselberg
_Jediron1 said "Can you print that?"_

You mean this?

NIMBY
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. 

NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) is a pejorative acronym for the phenomenon where local residents (NIMBIES) object to proposed development of new facilities near their homes or within their communities. The protested facilities can be anythingincluding housing, schools, roads, shopping, or public transit.

NIMBIES advance a number of arguments against the proposed development. While sometimes acknowledging the need for such developments, NIMBIES may claim that new development will increase local traffic, hurt small business, decrease property values, degrade the environment, or generally strain public resources. Other times, iffor instancea big-box store is planned, NIMBIES object that the store will be disproportionately used by non-locals, while degrading the quality of life for locals.

Critics of NIMBIES claim that NIMBIES are motivated more their own isolationist attitudes, individualistic needs, and unwillingness to be inconvenienced by civic concerns. Critics claim that the new developments are needed, and they may accuse the NIMBIES of having the drawbridge mentality.

NIMBYISM can bee seen as a byproduct of several attitudes. It stems from a hyper-individualism in which the interests of the individual blind the individual from appreciating the needs of their community. It stems from pastoralism, which holds urbanism and development to be breeding grounds for corruption, crime, and needless complexity while less developed areas are thought to be paradises of purity, rejuvenation, and beautiful simplicity. And it also stems from the conservative attitude of wanting to be left alone from the onslaught of modern evils.

When NIMBYISM dominates political battles, it sets of a chain reaction that promotes urban sprawl. Because population grows continuously, new developments must be built somewhere. If suburban NIMBIES make developers unwelcome, developers can simply avert lengthy political fights by building in less developed areas on the outskirts of suburbia, where NIMBY opposition cannot galvanize. When many developers build large developments on the outskirts, they fuel the pattern of low-density development known as sprawl. NIMBIES who squelch local development may have preserved the quality of life in the immediate future for themselves, but in the long term they are actually diminishing the quality of life at the regional for everyone, since sprawl causes many problems, including increased traffic and longer commutes.

NIMBYISM often promotes homogeneity of communities. For instance, amongst the affluent NIMBYs most hotly contested form of developments are low-income housing and halfway houses. NIMBIES object that these developments will attract crime and lower property values. By opposing these lower socioeconomic brackets, NIMBIES oppose diversity. If any development is likely to be welcomed by NIMBIES, they are developments that are like whats already therehousing (and shopping) for people of the same socioeconomic brackets. NIMBIES perceive this homogenious development as the least threatening.

When NIMBIES oppose development, the issue may be presented by both sides as an either/or issues (i.e. either we build it here or we dont). As population grows, the reality is that new development must be built somewhere. The real question is not whether to build it, but where (and how) to build it. From a broader perspective, residents must also consider how they want their communities to grow. Advocacy groups like the Sierra Club tout Smart Growth an alternative to NIMBY's push for conservation and the developer's push for growth.

See also

*    hypocrisy
*    Drawbridge mentality
*    BANANA
*    NIABY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMBY[/QUOTE]


Yo Rinsel: I was joking, you know ha,ha :hammer:

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## Night Train

I bought a car that was supposed to get 30 Miles to the gallon. I have been only getting about 23 or 24. My mechanic (and several other people) have said, "You need to put a few thousand miles on it and let the engine tighten up. Then you'll get better mileage"
To this I say "Bull $#@#$"
I have never heard that before and Dont believe it.

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## Jacqui

> "You need to put a few thousand miles on it and let the engine tighten up. Then you'll get better mileage"


Seems like I heard in engineering school that engines loosen up in a few thousand.

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## coda

> In the Midwest we have E85 fuel available, 85% ethinol 15% gasoline, about $0.80 to $1.00 cheaper than regular gas.


I believe it's cheaper because ethanol is so heavily subsidized by the government. I keep waiting for E85 to show up here (southern California), it burns cleaner and should make the greenies happy, but still no go.  I figure if I'm gonna pay for somebodies cheap 'gas' I should be able to buy some too.

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## Jubilee

The thing with E85 is that you need to have a vehicle that can use it. Only certain makes and models utilize this fuel. Those of us driving older cars are out of luck :(

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## ziggy

> I bought a car that was supposed to get 30 Miles to the gallon. I have been only getting about 23 or 24. My mechanic (and several other people) have said, "You need to put a few thousand miles on it and let the engine tighten up. Then you'll get better mileage"
> To this I say "Bull $#@#$"
> I have never heard that before and Dont believe it.


I bought a Kia in Jan. and didnt start getting 30+MPG untill March:hammer:  I dont understant why but the guy at the dealership told me in 4-6 weeks I'd see the 30+MPG and he was right!

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## coda

> The thing with E85 is that you need to have a vehicle that can use it. Only certain makes and models utilize this fuel. Those of us driving older cars are out of luck :(


Very true, it will only work in certain models.  However there are a number of vehicles as old as mid 90s models which will run E85 with out any modification.  I believe some mid 90s Sentras and Tauruses (Tauri?) will, many pickups produced after 2000 as well.

Even on some models not intially FFV (flexible fuel vehicles) it is possible to make relatively minor upgrades to allow the use of E85.

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## 35oldguy

Too bad you do not live in the USA. We could use you as a lobbyist against BUSH. I hope no future Bush' ever run for office agaIN. tHE sTUPID aMERICAN PUBLIC would probably get another smoke screen.




> The NIMBY crowd will see to it that coastal drilling and especially refineries don't happen in the US
> 
> As for ANWR, that requires Bush to unilaterally break a signed treaty with Canada, which supplies more oil & gas to the US than any other nation in the world. ANWR drilling is seen in canada as a big slap, just like the Bush Admin's big tariffs on softwood lumber (which have been ruled illegal by the WTO and increase the cost of new houses in the US)... But bush of course is a corporation disguised as a human being, and a self-proclaimed conservative who in actuality runs huge deficits and is anti-free-trade (re: steel, food, softwood, etc)

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## 35oldguy

And this is coming from a clown that is living: "In Guatemala we pay $3.00 plus a gallon". This guy is living in Guatemala and trying to tell us how we should live. Maybe gas is higher but Im sure you have cheap labor, just ask Wal-Mart. Wow the gall of some people where did you grow up in Beverly Hills?:hammer:



I was born actually very close to Beverly Hills! No pun intended! I grew up in Kansas where we walked a lot. I lived over 50 of my years in the USA. Only a few years here in Guatemala. The climate is great here. I am going to retire one day. The weather here we do not need foot warmers!

I guess times have changed! When I lived in the states I thought we had it pretty good! We had all the things we needed and got a lot of the things that we wanted. It is too bad that a few people like some of those from New York do not appreciate what they have instead of criticzing people from a different culture where things are not as great as they are in the good ole USA!!!

As far as cheap labor, the poor people of Guatemala are forced to move to the land of opportunity (USA) so they can make a better wage than they can get even if they had the opportunity to even find a JOB in their home country. Even then they are underpaid. It is the companies in the USA that are taking advantage of that so called cheap LABOR!!!

Yes I have an opinion about people that are lazy in the USA!! So many of them are OBESE!! If they would get some exercise and stop eating so much of thaT JUNK FOOD THEY WOULD BE A LOT HEALTHIER!

12 miles to work and back. Yes I think I too would drive. It would be more comfortable!! Probably too dangerous also!!

But many people do find other means to save $$$. I wonder if their heart rate is better for it. I applaud those that find a better way to survive when gas prices are too high!!

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## jediron1

Jacqui
In the Midwest we have E85 fuel available, 85% ethinol 15% gasoline, about $0.80 to $1.00 cheaper than regular gas.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure about the E85? I heard on tv today that a guy redid his old car to take the ethinol but said it still cost about the same as reg.,so where's the savings? :Cool:  


PS Just saw a site where E85 was listed at $2.05 so I guess you do save some
but most cars are not equipped with the equipment needed to run on E85.

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## jediron1

35oldguy
I was born actually very close to Beverly Hills! No pun intended! I grew up in Kansas where we walked a lot. I lived over 50 of my years in the USA. Only a few years here in Guatemala. The climate is great here. I am going to retire one day. The weather here we do not need foot warmers!

I guess times have changed! When I lived in the states I thought we had it pretty good! We had all the things we needed and got a lot of the things that we wanted. It is too bad that a few people like some of those from New York do not appreciate what they have instead of criticzing people from a different culture where things are not as great as they are in the good ole USA!!!

As far as cheap labor, the poor people of Guatemala are forced to move to the land of opportunity (USA) so they can make a better wage than they can get even if they had the opportunity to even find a JOB in their home country. Even then they are underpaid. It is the companies in the USA that are taking advantage of that so called cheap LABOR!!!

Yes I have an opinion about people that are lazy in the USA!! So many of them are OBESE!! If they would get some exercise and stop eating so much of thaT JUNK FOOD THEY WOULD BE A LOT HEALTHIER!

12 miles to work and back. Yes I think I too would drive. It would be more comfortable!! Probably too dangerous also!!

But many people do find other means to save $$$. I wonder if their heart rate is better for it. I applaud those that find a better way to survive when gas prices are too high!![/QUOTE]


1. I guess were not in Kansas anymore Toto! :Cool:  


2. People in New York appreciate more than you think. As to your remark: 
"do not appreciate what they have instead of criticzing people from a different culture"
There was no criticizing the people of Guatemala just the expatriots of the US who live there and then criticize (sorry had to correct your spelling error)
the US people while living abroad. It's convenient to spout off about the US 
while your living in Guatemala. Maybe if you still lived here you would be given more respect for your opinions, but running away and living Guatemala
seems a bit hypocritcal!


3. If the people in Guatemala are so poor why are you not helping them, your right there? Why would you go to this poor land when the people as you say have to go to the US to the land of opportunity? Could it be your US dollar goes a lot further there then here?


4. I would have to agree with post #48:bbg:

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## ziggy

35yearold guy
"I guess times have changed! When I lived in the states I thought we had it pretty good! We had all the things we needed and got a lot of the things that we wanted. It is too bad that a few people like some of those from New York do not appreciate what they have instead of criticzing people from a different culture where things are not as great as they are in the good ole USA!!!"

If things are that great in GT my hope is that you can stay there! BTW did you vote in the last 2 elections? were you even in the country? If you voted, feel free to dog Bush and his polices, if you didnt, shut the **** up, your opinion is nothing.:finger:

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## 35oldguy

Okay you guys I give up!!! Let us stop the BS and start being nice to each other!!I see no point in continuing this type of discussion. It just shows to the rest of the people on these boards how unintelligent some people can be!

Yes I have voted against GWB the last four times. We vote through the US Embassy. Father and son! Too bad Clinton could not have served more terms.





> 35yearold guy
> "I guess times have changed! When I lived in the states I thought we had it pretty good! We had all the things we needed and got a lot of the things that we wanted. It is too bad that a few people like some of those from New York do not appreciate what they have instead of criticzing people from a different culture where things are not as great as they are in the good ole USA!!!"
> 
> If things are that great in GT my hope is that you can stay there! BTW did you vote in the last 2 elections? were you even in the country? If you voted, feel free to dog Bush and his polices, if you didnt, shut the **** up, your opinion is nothing.:finger:

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## rinselberg

> Too bad Clinton could not have served more terms.


One term for perjury. One term for "low" crimes and misdemeanors ...

Hey, I'm just having fun here. I never get serious about anything in these threads except foreign policy.


 :cheers:

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## ziggy

35, If you voted, dog away! Bush very well be the reason for all of the gas woes and problems in the world. But I still refuse to think most of us(US) are lazy. Yes are standard of living is far grater than some of the world but there is on reason to by sorry or ashamed. And you sitting in GT doging the country/adminastration, if you dont like the way things are going come back and make a change.

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## 35oldguy

Me too! I enjoy these boards.

Yes, perjury. They proved it! Is the President of the United States above the law? Clinton. Bush?






> One term for perjury. One term for "low" crimes and misdemeanors ...
> 
> Hey, I'm just having fun here. I never get serious about anything in these threads except foreign policy.
> 
> 
> :cheers:

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## 35oldguy

Sorry Ziggy! My comments are just pure frustrations!

I just read a report on the internet "WASHINGTON - Obesity rates rose last year in every state but Oregon, according to an advocacy group that called on the government and the private sector to get more involved in Americans' battle with expanding waistlines!

I agree why be ashamed or sorry! But there are people who do need help!

I do not believe other than voting any one person will make that much difference in changing the current policies of President Bush! He is President for a reason. He is part of the "Skull and Bones" group!

Control of the world by a few is their goal I think. Any comments?





> 35, If you voted, dog away! Bush very well be the reason for all of the gas woes and problems in the world. But I still refuse to think most of us(US) are lazy. Yes are standard of living is far grater than some of the world but there is on reason to by sorry or ashamed. And you sitting in GT doging the country/adminastration, if you dont like the way things are going come back and make a change.

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## Spexvet

> One term for perjury. One term for "low" crimes and misdemeanors ...


That's very funny, Rinsey.

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## ziggy

35, I dont know about the S&B theory,, what I do know is that this goverment(reguardless of who in the white house) gives money to the third world than any other country in the world. The problem lies with the corruption with in the reciving goverments.Great debate and I hope no hard feelings.:cheers:

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## 35oldguy

I was just asking my partner that very question. He is Guatemalan. He does not think that the US gives that much aid to Guatemala. He says that depends on what side of the fence you are on whether you benefited from past aid that the country recieved from the United States.

In the 1980's during the Civil War many Mayan Indians were massacred by the government. During that time General Rios Mont was the President after a coup and was responsible for many of the still hundreds of thousands of missing people.We  and  President Reagan supported General Rios Montt.

I think that the most aid that is received here is from ONG's non-profit organizations thast send volunteers and aid in the form of goods or money. It is non government and through this type of aid is how many Guastemalan people survive.

Corruption during the Portillo regime they stole everything including the IGSS social security for old people. The mafia controls the country. The former president had many friends in organized crime.

The present government is trying to bring many of the so called former government officials to justice but they get off after paying a small fine. They keep the millions they stole.

I enjoyed it. Life is too short not to have fun!





> 35, I dont know about the S&B theory,, what I do know is that this goverment(reguardless of who in the white house) gives money to the third world than any other country in the world. The problem lies with the corruption with in the reciving goverments.Great debate and I hope no hard feelings.:cheers:

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## ziggy

You have made my point better than I could have. The internal problems in GT limit the good that any aid sent by the US can have. We(the US) could have been sending Billions to GT and a very small amount will trickel to the people that need it. The press in countries outside the US often talk about how little the US does to help them, what they fail to mention is how much *WAS* Sent and how much got gobbled up in *"Cost".* Once again, not our problem or fault. I guess it all depends on whos ox is being gored or whos calf is being licked.

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## 35oldguy

Exactly!




> You have made my point better than I could have. The internal problems in GT limit the good that any aid sent by the US can have. We(the US) could have been sending Billions to GT and a very small amount will trickel to the people that need it. The press in countries outside the US often talk about how little the US does to help them, what they fail to mention is how much *WAS* Sent and how much got gobbled up in *"Cost".* Once again, not our problem or fault. I guess it all depends on whos ox is being gored or whos calf is being licked.

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## jediron1

35oldguy
Okay you guys I give up!!! Let us stop the BS and start being nice to each other!!I see no point in continuing this type of discussion. It just shows to the rest of the people on these boards how unintelligent some people can be!

Yes I have voted against GWB the last four times. We vote through the US Embassy. Father and son! Too bad Clinton could not have served more terms.[/QUOTE]

1. You say:
"Okay you guys I give up" 
then go on to say:
" I see no point in continuing this type of discussion. It just shows to the rest of the people on these boards how unintelligent some people can be!" 
Really!  We are unintelligent?
We did not bring up the points that I illustrated in post 80 you did.

2. I never called Americans lazy or fat you did.

3. It must be nice to sit in Guatemala while collecting your US pay check and living like a king while the people there live in squalor. Then you rip the US people! Unbelievable:hammer:

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## jediron1

35oldguy
Okay you guys I give up!!! Let us stop the BS and start being nice to each other!!I see no point in continuing this type of discussion. It just shows to the rest of the people on these boards how unintelligent some people can be!

Yes I have voted against GWB the last four times. We vote through the US Embassy. Father and son! Too bad Clinton could not have served more terms.[/QUOTE]


Ya that is exactly what we need another four years of Clinton chasing skirts all
over the White House again! WOW :hammer:

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## jediron1

ziggy
You have made my point better than I could have. The internal problems in GT limit the good that any aid sent by the US can have. We(the US) could have been sending Billions to GT and a very small amount will trickel to the people that need it. The press in countries outside the US often talk about how little the US does to help them, what they fail to mention is how much *WAS* Sent and how much got gobbled up in *"Cost".* Once again, not our problem or fault. I guess it all depends on whos ox is being gored or whos calf is being licked.[/QUOTE]

Most of the time it's not "Cost" it is government corruption at the highest levels in these countries. Look what is happening in Africa. They get huge amounts of aid but very little gets to the people.

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## chm2023

> 35oldguy
> Okay you guys I give up!!! Let us stop the BS and start being nice to each other!!I see no point in continuing this type of discussion. It just shows to the rest of the people on these boards how unintelligent some people can be!
> 
> Yes I have voted against GWB the last four times. We vote through the US Embassy. Father and son! Too bad Clinton could not have served more terms.


 
Ya that is exactly what we need another four years of Clinton chasing skirts all
over the White House again! WOW :hammer:[/QUOTE]

Well, versus this insane war and lack of energy policy, skirt chasing seems a minor, minor issue, don't ya think??

----------


## jediron1

chm2023
Ya that is exactly what we need another four years of Clinton chasing skirts all
over the White House again! WOW :hammer:[/QUOTE]

Well, versus this insane war and lack of energy policy, skirt chasing seems a minor, minor issue, don't ya think??[/QUOTE]


It all depends where your morals are! If you think skirt chasing is ok then that is you not me. The insane war could be over if the Rep and Dems got together and 
went as a united front to the President and the People and demanded a full pull out. Just my 2 cents :p

----------


## chm2023

> chm2023
> Ya that is exactly what we need another four years of Clinton chasing skirts all
> over the White House again! WOW :hammer:


Well, versus this insane war and lack of energy policy, skirt chasing seems a minor, minor issue, don't ya think??[/QUOTE]


It all depends where your morals are! If you think skirt chasing is ok then that is you not me. The insane war could be over if the Rep and Dems got together and 
went as a united front to the President and the People and demanded a full pull out. Just my 2 cents :p[/QUOTE]

Oh please, what's more immoral than sending other people's kids off to get killed and maimed when it could have been avoided.  I grow weary of people wasting energy looking into other people's sex lives--the only skirt chasing that would my concern would be my husband's!!!!!  And of course the resulting trial!!!!;)

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## allstar

There is a reason Gas Prices are so high, it's called Peak Oil and we are getting very near to it.

The problem is not so much one of oil running out, it is of production reaching it's maximum after which it becomes harder and harder to extract from the ground. This coupled with our ever increasing demand for cheap oil is causing / going to cause the price of oil to skyrocket.

enjoy it while you can guys, I think $100 a barrel is on the cards, the consequences of which will be a disaster for all our Western economys which are fundamentally based on an ever increasing supply of oil.

don't believe me? Take a look at this: www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net it's quite eye opening (read: depressing).

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## chm2023

There was a fellow on one of the Sunday news programs who has written in the book--something with "Desert" in the title.  Anyway, his thesis is that the Saudis have exaggerated them oil reserves and are probably sitting on a whole lot less than they say.  $100 barrel could be cheap if this is the case.

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## 35oldguy

Here, here!!! What is more immoral than killing people? Chasing skirts is a personal matter and it is no ones business but the people involved.

How many of you have read about the skull and bones club of the rich and famous including our current pressident. Go to: www.skull and bones.com. This a real eye opener. 

Wars are for financial and politcal gain for the more powerful figures in the world. We the American people just keep getting duped by our national leaders every day. We are fools!!

The major players of this defined group are in the oil business and they want the price to continue going up. This includes are current President. Why do you think they want Jeb Bush to make a run for President?!!! It is called POWER!!






> Well, versus this insane war and lack of energy policy, skirt chasing seems a minor, minor issue, don't ya think??


 
It all depends where your morals are! If you think skirt chasing is ok then that is you not me. The insane war could be over if the Rep and Dems got together and 
went as a united front to the President and the People and demanded a full pull out. Just my 2 cents :p[/QUOTE]

Oh please, what's more immoral than sending other people's kids off to get killed and maimed when it could have been avoided. I grow weary of people wasting energy looking into other people's sex lives--the only skirt chasing that would my concern would be my husband's!!!!! And of course the resulting trial!!!!;)[/QUOTE]

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## allstar

Thing is they can't have the prices continue rising because there will be complete socio-economic breakdown if the cost of fuel goes too high. 

remember your food is delivered by trucks and grown and harvested by petrol driven machines, the whole fabric of our economy is based on the availability of cheap oil.

it's not in anyones best interests for oil prices to rise really high, but rise it will as we put more and more demand on an ever decreasing supply.

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## 35oldguy

> 35oldguy
> Okay you guys I give up!!! Let us stop the BS and start being nice to each other!!I see no point in continuing this type of discussion. It just shows to the rest of the people on these boards how unintelligent some people can be!
> 
> Yes I have voted against GWB the last four times. We vote through the US Embassy. Father and son! Too bad Clinton could not have served more terms.


1. You say:
"Okay you guys I give up" 
then go on to say:
" I see no point in continuing this type of discussion. It just shows to the rest of the people on these boards how unintelligent some people can be!" 
Really! We are unintelligent?
We did not bring up the points that I illustrated in post 80 you did.

2. I never called Americans lazy or fat you did.

3. It must be nice to sit in Guatemala while collecting your US pay check and living like a king while the people there live in squalor. Then you rip the US people! Unbelievable:hammer: [/QUOTE]

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## ken@foothills

The USA uses 19 Million gallons of gasoline a day.
Western Europe 5.2 Million gallons a day.
Russia 2.5 Million gallons per day.
I am sorry who did you say was responsible for the high gas prices?

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## Spexvet

I heard on the news today that gas in Amsterdam converts to $7.35/gallon. We think we've got it bad??!!?:hammer:

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## naicitpo1

I think we are going to start taking Exxon cards for our services.;)

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## jediron1

chm2023

Oh please, what's more immoral than sending other people's kids off to get killed and maimed when it could have been avoided. I grow weary of people wasting energy looking into other people's sex lives--the only skirt chasing that would my concern would be my husband's!!!!! And of course the resulting trial!!!!;)[/QUOTE]


Lets see WW 1, WW 2, ( Hilter killed 6 mil ) Stalins Gulags ( Reportedly killed more than 50 mil.I heard recently that most were christian, can't substantiate it but thats what I heard from a christian tape), Mao's killing camp (again reportiedly 100 mil were killed), Korean War and most recently the people dying in Africa, what was it a Mil in the Sudan alone! And what about the Iran, Iraq war? Where over a 1 mil died and some even had chemicals tried on them to see what reaction it would cause. So what is immoral? You have to draw the line some where, I bet if you caught your husband we might just have another Bobitt case! Just my 2 cents.

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## jediron1

Hawaii first in the Nation to impose Gas price cap. From:http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/aug2...5-08-26-09.asp  :Cool:

----------


## chm2023

> chm2023
> 
> Oh please, what's more immoral than sending other people's kids off to get killed and maimed when it could have been avoided. I grow weary of people wasting energy looking into other people's sex lives--the only skirt chasing that would my concern would be my husband's!!!!! And of course the resulting trial!!!!;)


 
Lets see WW 1, WW 2, ( Hilter killed 6 mil ) Stalins Gulags ( Reportedly killed more than 50 mil.I heard recently that most were christian, can't substantiate it but thats what I heard from a christian tape), Mao's killing camp (again reportiedly 100 mil were killed), Korean War and most recently the people dying in Africa, what was it a Mil in the Sudan alone! And what about the Iran, Iraq war? Where over a 1 mil died and some even had chemicals tried on them to see what reaction it would cause. So what is immoral? You have to draw the line some where, I bet if you caught your husband we might just have another Bobitt case! Just my 2 cents. [/QUOTE]

My comments were in response to the (I thought?) sarcastic statement that we needed more skirt chasing in the WH--a reference I took to negatively compare the seriousness of Willie's mistakes to the mistakes of the current occupant of the WH. 

I don't see myself as Mrs Bobbitt--but I wouldn't want to count on it!:bbg:

----------


## jediron1

chm2023

My comments were in response to the (I thought?) sarcastic statement that we needed more skirt chasing in the WH--a reference I took to negatively compare the seriousness of Willie's mistakes to the mistakes of the current occupant of the WH. 

I don't see myself as Mrs Bobbitt--but I wouldn't want to count on it!:bbg:[/QUOTE]


Apparently you were not keeping up with the diatribe between myself and 32oldguy. His comment in post 82 is what prompted my response. :Cool:

----------


## Lynne

> Hawaii first in the Nation to impose Gas price cap. From:http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/aug2...5-08-26-09.asp


And man do we need it!  Oahu still has gas at $2.79 or something, the Big Island at $3.04, and here on Maui its between $3.11 and $3.31!!   :Mad:  They say the extra cost is due to shipping - Hello!  The Big Island is further from Oahu than we are!  Problem is only two gas companies here, so no competition.  We're all hoping that Costco brings in a service station, and then maybe we'll see a drop in all this gouging....

----------


## ziggy

Gas just hit between $3.09 to $3.19 for reg unleded. Be sure to send a thank you letter to the EPA! :Mad:

----------


## coda

> Gas just hit between $3.09 to $3.19 for reg unleded. Be sure to send a thank you letter to the EPA!


I do.  Everytime I swim in the river that flows through my hometown.  20 years ago it was too toxic to swim in, now it's almost up to drinking water standards.  THANKS EPA!

----------


## Spexvet

> Gas just hit between $3.09 to $3.19 for reg unleded. Be sure to send a thank you letter to the EPA!


I'll trade lung cancer and emphezema for $1.00/ gallon. What I won't trade is outrageous oil company profits::angry: 

"*Exxon Mobil profits jump 32 percent*"

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1465359/posts

"Profit Soars at Exxon Mobil"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072802085.html

----------


## Diane

$5.98 a gallon last night.  Price gouging....

Diane

----------


## Jubilee

Between $3.19 to $3.69 yesterday. I am glad I filled my tank up when the truck stop was at $2.54.


Anyone listen to the news conference yesterday? The temporarily repealed the clean air act til Sept 15th to help get production ramped up and cut costs. They also have opened up part of the reserves.

It was somewhat disheartening to here that the energy situation was discussed before any of the health and human services were. Yet I suppose that the gas does influence everyone and is more the long term issue. Still if I was one of the residents I would be angry. Thousands of people still stuck. Hospitals supporting premies with batteries and hand crancking machines.. and Oil is the nations first priority.

Cassandra

----------


## coda

My understanding of the oil reserves is that they're not refined oil.  What that means is that were still severely crunched by refinery capacity, particularly now that a number of refineries along the Gulf coast are shuttered.

Gas certainly won't be getting cheaper but over $5.00 in Georgia is outrageous.  Call your local attourney general, that type of price gouging is illegal in most of the US and maybe in your local as well.

----------


## Jubilee

The news recently was reporting about the gas prices in the Atlanta area. Most places are now at $4.99 and higher. The reason being supply and demand. A large portion of both refugees and relief workers are pouring through the area. The huge demand for a low supply is driving the prices up. Some places have actually quit selling to the general public period, to make sure the gas is there for relief efforts and public works.

They also told stories of truckers who are trying to get home, but can't find diesel anywhere in a quantity to allow them to leave. Basically fuel in the surrounding states is very hard to find.

Even here, the price has gone up by 70 cents or more in some areas per gallon. One chain of stations who have a contract to provide gas for state and city vehicles has now stopped selling gas to the general public to make sure they have an adequate supply. 

Maybe people now will actually invest in our failing bus system, carpool, etc.

I wonder how expensive it will be to heat the house this winter?

Cassandra

----------


## coda

Wow!  My mistake, I had no idea shortages were that severe yet.  Yikes.

----------


## jediron1

coda
Wow! My mistake, I had no idea shortages were that severe yet. Yikes.[/QUOTE]

Wow I thought I paid a lot when I gassed up today at $2.89 and Prem. at $3.09
I also heard if you don't gas now there might not be any gas left! Another 73-74
all over again! Maybe John Fogerty is right it's " DeJa Vu all over again " :Cool:  

9-5-2005


PS a buddy of mine called a couple of days ago and said he just paid $3.89 per
gal. I said that's not funny but 12 hours earlier I paid $2.69 per gal. it jumped a $1.20 per gal in less than 12 hours. If that is not price gouging I don't know what is.

----------


## EyeManFla

I spent the Labor Day Weekend driving a 16' moving truck from Witchita to Sarasota.

The cost of the flight on Thursday night out of SRQ for two tickets-business class- was $299.00

The cost of gas on the drive back - $587.00

----------


## Joann Raytar

Just paid $3.39 for regular tonight; $40.25 to fill the tank and I don't drive a 4x4. Almost $10 more than only a week ago.

I think the picture below will be my next car.  How much are a good pair of running shoes? 
:cheers:

----------


## rbaker

Ten bucks a week. Holy Mackinaw Andy, Looks like we are going to have to cut out a couple of Starbucks a weeks or a couple of packs of Virginia Slims to break even.

In truth, I do not know anyone who has changed their driving patterns to accommodate this temporary rise in fuel prices; the economy is just too good.

----------


## Jacqui

Gas here is $2.89 this AM. I paid $2.59 in St. Cloud, Mn. on Tuesday. Prices here are going down.

----------


## Spexvet

Prices in New Jersey have come down in the last week, from $3.35 a week ago to $3.05 this morning. Suburban Philadelphia is still around $3.40. I filled up our minivan at the beginning of last week - I stopped at $60.00, just couldn't bring myself to go any further.

----------


## 35oldguy

We started to ride together to work. Cuts our costs in half!!



> Ten bucks a week. Holy Mackinaw Andy, Looks like we are going to have to cut out a couple of Starbucks a weeks or a couple of packs of Virginia Slims to break even.
> 
> In truth, I do not know anyone who has changed their driving patterns to accommodate this temporary rise in fuel prices; the economy is just too good.

----------


## Spexvet

> In truth, I do not know anyone who has changed their driving patterns to accommodate this temporary rise in fuel prices; the economy is just too good.


I have. I drive at a lower speed to increase mileage, and do my best to avoid "jack-rabbit-starts". As a family, we both now use my car for errands (better milage and I get gas in N.J.) where, before, my wife would have exclusively used her minivan wherever she would go.

----------


## hcjilson

Exxon has quoted the highest net profit of *ANY COMPANY IN HISTORY*  for the last quarter. I can hardly wait to hear what those figures will be this quarter.

Apparently all the price increases have very little to do with the supply of oil. Just their way of thumbing their noses at us.

----------


## rbaker

I believe that the price increase was due to the perceived shortage of petroleum as reflected in the futures market. Now that President Bush has released stock from the strategic reserve we are seeing a downward trend in prices which should return to equilibrium very shortly.

As a stockholder I do defend the policies of Exxon by pointing out that the petroleum industry in the USA provides the cheap and abundant energy that fuels our nations economic growth. Exxon also invites you to assume an ownership position in the corporation and share in the profits.

You aint never had it so good.

----------


## 35oldguy

That is why the American people should start voluntarily be more concious of the fact that only a few are getting filthy rich off the rest of the world. 

I say let us stop driving as much. Find ways of not being so dependent on oil so the price can back down to where it was when I was a kid!! 15.9 cents.

QUOTE=rbaker]I believe that the price increase was due to the perceived shortage of petroleum as reflected in the futures market. Now that President Bush has released stock from the strategic reserve we are seeing a downward trend in prices which should return to equilibrium very shortly.

As a stockholder I do defend the policies of Exxon by pointing out that the petroleum industry in the USA provides the cheap and abundant energy that fuels our nations economic growth. Exxon also invites you to assume an ownership position in the corporation and share in the profits.

You aint never had it so good. [/QUOTE]

----------


## 35oldguy

I am concerned! Bush is now being destroyed politically due to his bungling of the New Orleans rescue mission. Even his sidekick (Cheney) is not so popular after his visit to the ruins today.

Clinton will get to the bottom of this. The commission he is proposing should tell us why the President was" johnny come lately"!





> chm2023
> 
> My comments were in response to the (I thought?) sarcastic statement that we needed more skirt chasing in the WH--a reference I took to negatively compare the seriousness of Willie's mistakes to the mistakes of the current occupant of the WH. 
> 
> I don't see myself as Mrs Bobbitt--but I wouldn't want to count on it!:bbg:


 
Apparently you were not keeping up with the diatribe between myself and 32oldguy. His comment in post 82 is what prompted my response. :Cool:  [/QUOTE]

----------


## Lynne

> Gas here is $2.89 this AM. I paid $2.59 in St. Cloud, Mn. on Tuesday. Prices here are going down.


$3.54 and 9/10 and rising...... :cry:   :cry:    went up 20cents yesterday

----------


## hcjilson

> I believe that the price increase was due to the perceived shortage of petroleum as reflected in the futures market. Now that President Bush has released stock from the strategic reserve we are seeing a downward trend in prices which should return to equilibrium very shortly.
> 
> As a stockholder I do defend the policies of Exxon by pointing out that the petroleum industry in the USA provides the cheap and abundant energy that fuels our nations economic growth. Exxon also invites you to assume an ownership position in the corporation and share in the profits.
> 
> You aint never had it so good.


The only people who percieved the shortage were the media, ergo the public as a result, fueled by the PR releases from the petroleum institute. There indeed has been no shortage of oil, the refineries are back up and running and the oil industry is making unbelieveable profits by gouging the public.The president of Exxon is retiring soon. I heard about his retirement package. As a stockholder, I would be somewhat concerned at what the management I hired, think that man is worth in retirement.Details escape me now but its easily verified. Its easy to pay that kind of money if you can get away with holding the energy consuming public hostage and charging exhorbitant prices in relation to costs.

While I was becoming an optician I also managed to get to get through the school of management at UMASS and spent some time in graduate school studying economics.I didn't learn everything but I wasn't born yesterday.  When a filling station fills their tanks up with 35,000 gallons of oil, they pay the going rate for whatever they purchase. When the price per gallon rises 75 cents a gallon OVERNIGHT, as it did last weekned, there were incredible profits realized. If you think thats fair, then there's something wrong with your  value system.That may be only my opinion so you can take that for what its worth, but when I see a corporation (heavily subsidised by the government through oil leases) post the largest profit figures of any industry or business in HISTORY, it sends me a warning signal. Its time to wake up and smell the coffee folks.

----------


## 35oldguy

A great POST!!!  Too many people were not born yesterday. Too many people are just followers. Wake up people and smell the roses!






> The only people who percieved the shortage were the media, ergo the public as a result, fueled by the PR releases from the petroleum institute. There indeed has been no shortage of oil, the refineries are back up and running and the oil industry is making unbelieveable profits by gouging the public.The president of Exxon is retiring soon. I heard about his retirement package. As a stockholder, I would be somewhat concerned at what the management I hired, think that man is worth in retirement.Details escape me now but its easily verified. Its easy to pay that kind of money if you can get away with holding the energy consuming public hostage and charging exhorbitant prices in relation to costs.
> 
> While I was becoming an optician I also managed to get to get through the school of management at UMASS and spent some time in graduate school studying economics.I didn't learn everything but I wasn't born yesterday. When a filling station fills their tanks up with 35,000 gallons of oil, they pay the going rate for whatever they purchase. When the price per gallon rises 75 cents a gallon OVERNIGHT, as it did last weekned, there were incredible profits realized. If you think thats fair, then there's something wrong with your value system.That may be only my opinion so you can take that for what its worth, but when I see a corporation (heavily subsidised by the government through oil leases) post the largest profit figures of any industry or business in HISTORY, it sends me a warning signal. Its time to wake up and smell the coffee folks.

----------


## rinselberg

> I have. I drive at a *lower speed* to increase mileage, and do my best to avoid *jackrabbit starts* ...



The Spex' man.
_What's he rebelling against? What have ya' got?_


His ride -- he's always the first one to check in A.M. at the "Op Shop".



rinselberg and Bud Light -- a winning combination!
http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...3&postcount=16

----------


## chip anderson

I heard today that the price of natural gas would be up 50% this winter.  I sure don't know why because my oil and gas exploration buddies told me during the Carter administration that they had found enough natural gas for the next 300 years.


Chip

----------


## jediron1

chip anderson
I heard today that the price of natural gas would be up 50% this winter. I sure don't know why because my oil and gas exploration buddies told me during the Carter administration that they had found enough natural gas for the next 300 years.


Chip[/QUOTE]


They have been quoting the same thing here. Chip anytime something like this happens it just gives the BOYS in POWER a reason to raise prices and to make more MO. Had a friend at Exxon Mobil Say " these prices won't stay that long within two to three weeks they will start coming down, I looked at her and said " Ya right ". These high prices are here to stay! Until I see at the pumps that I m paying less than $50 to fill my tank I won't believe anything they say. I remember if I had $50.00 for gas I could drive for about three months 
in my little Corvair in 1969! Boy those were the good ole days! :Cool:

----------


## jediron1

rbaker
I believe that the price increase was due to the perceived shortage of petroleum as reflected in the futures market. Now that President Bush has released stock from the strategic reserve we are seeing a downward trend in prices which should return to equilibrium very shortly.

As a stockholder I do defend the policies of Exxon by pointing out that the petroleum industry in the USA provides the cheap and abundant energy that fuels our nations economic growth. Exxon also invites you to assume an ownership position in the corporation and share in the profits.

You aint never had it so good. [/QUOTE]


1. "we are seeing a downward trend in prices " A downward trend! I paid last week $2.69 per gal, this week I just paid $3.69 per gal. That is an awful downward trend that has gone backwards. If this goes according to what your saying I will be paying $4.69 by the end of next week.


2 "downward trend in prices which should return to equilibrium very shortly". What equilibrium? The equilibrium to gouge people for high profits that are beyond the stratosphere? What if I have had a person coming into my shop and wanted a frame that he has been looking at for two weeks and is now wondering why the price rose 30% last week and now is 30% higher than last weeks 30%? How do you think he would feel and what do you think he would do? He would feel the same as we do at the pumps, like were being gouged. 


3. "As a stockholder I do defend the policies of Exxon" So you defend the price gouging money grabbing policies of Exxon? That is unbelievable! Unless you can prove
elsewise, they (Exxon and others) are just trying to take advandage of a horrific situation by gouging the public for more MO, and thats not right!:finger:

----------


## chip anderson

Odd that you folks in the Nawth is payin such high prices, here in the South we are still paying about $2.60 and we have had shortages due to Katrina.  Are you sure that your state legislatures aren't the ones getting the high profits?


Chip

----------


## hcjilson

To the best of my knowledge, President Bush has released no oil for consumption. He only *threatened* to do it. Here's an interesting question. If he were to release the oil, to whom would he release it? What would the price be?

While you are pondering that, bear in mind,  his daddy's in oil!

----------


## jediron1

chip anderson
Odd that you folks in the Nawth is payin such high prices, here in the South we are still paying about $2.60 and we have had shortages due to Katrina. Are you sure that your state legislatures aren't the ones getting the high profits?


Chip[/QUOTE]



We just had a drop to $2.99 per gal. for reg., prem. is still at $3.11 to $3.15 per gal. haven't seen much drop off in driving people are still motoring around and still paying those ridiculous prices. :Cool:

----------


## jediron1

hcjilson
To the best of my knowledge, President Bush has released no oil for consumption. He only *threatened* to do it. Here's an interesting question. If he were to release the oil, to whom would he release it? What would the price be?

While you are pondering that, bear in mind, his daddy's in oil![/QUOTE]



Since you brought up daddy's, check out where Teddy Kennedy's DADDY got his MO I think you will very surprised. "So who's Your Daddy"  :Cool:

----------


## 35oldguy

> hcjilson
> To the best of my knowledge, President Bush has released no oil for consumption. He only *threatened* to do it. Here's an interesting question. If he were to release the oil, to whom would he release it? What would the price be?
> 
> While you are pondering that, bear in mind, his daddy's in oil!


 

Since you brought up daddy's, check out where Teddy Kennedy's DADDY got his MO I think you will very surprised. "So who's Your Daddy"  :Cool: [/QUOTE]


It would be nice to have some of his money!! Teddy`s Daddy is dead!! George H.W. is still spending all that money he and Bin Laden made off of us poor stupid Americans.

----------


## jediron1

35oldguy
Since you brought up daddy's, check out where Teddy Kennedy's DADDY got his MO I think you will very surprised. "So who's Your Daddy"  :Cool: [/QUOTE]


It would be nice to have some of his money!! Teddy`s Daddy is dead!! George H.W. is still spending all that money he and Bin Laden made off of us poor stupid Americans.[/QUOTE]


Really! The comment was in response to a comment that hcjilson made not to you, but your's is duly noted.  So you really don't care where Teddy's daddy got his MO but you insinuate that the price gouging and money grabbing is all to get the Bush family more MO and more powerful? You might be a poor stupid American but I would Bank ( sorry could not help myself ) that most who write on and read this board are not and might take exception to you for calling us STUPID Americans. :shiner:

----------


## 35oldguy

Just for your information I really think that most people are very stupid!!Including Americans!!! But just for the record I am not making a personal attack on you!! So do not take it personal!! Most people do not understand the politics of this issue!! As far as the Kennedy's if I can remember my history I believe they could have been crooks. But please inform us of the truth!! I would really like to know for sure.

Do you know how the Bush' made their money?




> 35oldguy
> Since you brought up daddy's, check out where Teddy Kennedy's DADDY got his MO I think you will very surprised. "So who's Your Daddy"


 
It would be nice to have some of his money!! Teddy`s Daddy is dead!! George H.W. is still spending all that money he and Bin Laden made off of us poor stupid Americans.[/QUOTE]


Really! The comment was in response to a comment that hcjilson made not to you, but your's is duly noted. So you really don't care where Teddy's daddy got his MO but you insinuate that the price gouging and money grabbing is all to get the Bush family more MO and more powerful? You might be a poor stupid American but I would Bank ( sorry could not help myself ) that most who write on and read this board are not and might take exception to you for calling us STUPID Americans. :shiner:[/QUOTE]

----------


## 35oldguy

*Bush family conspiracy theory*

*From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.*


The *Bush family conspiracy theory* is an umbrella term used to describe various conspiracy theory allegations directed towards the family of President George W. Bush, including the President's brother, Florida Governor Jeb Bush, their brother Neil Bush, their father and former President George H. W. Bush, grandfather Prescott Bush, and great-grandfather George Herbert Walker.

Some allege criminal conspiracies involving United States or multinational corporations, vested interests, US government organizations, and various dictators. While some attach great importance to suggested links which connect individuals and companies, others dismiss some or all of the conspiracy theories as fantasy and claim that these connections are normal for business families and do not imply wrongdoing or malevolence.


I thought this might be of interest. Truth or fantasy who really knows?

----------


## jediron1

[QUOTE=35oldguy]Just for your information I really think that most people are very stupid!!Including Americans!!! But just for the record I am not making a personal attack on you!! So do not take it personal!! Most people do not understand the politics of this issue!! As far as the Kennedy's if I can remember my history I believe they could have been crooks. But please inform us of the truth!! I would really like to know for sure.

Do you know how the Bush' made their money?




I never took it as a personal, attack maybe you did but I didn't. I was commenting on your demeaning wording. As to where Kennedy got his rich's:
from:http://homepages.uni-tuebingen.de/st...ann/family.htm

What is the family's goal? The answer to this question is given when we look at Joseph Patrick Kennedy ,  JFKs father. Joseph Kennedy, called Joe, was a born businessman and even as a student in school he started a business with one of his friends. They bought a bus and gave tours around Boston. After college Joe got into the bank business. When he was 26 years old he was already the director of his own bank,  worked with real estates, invested in the stock market and the booming film industry. But the stock market crash in 1929 was when Joe Kennedy won his riches. As one of the few, he realized just in time that he should sell his shares. When everything was starting up again he was the one who had influence on the stock market and could change things, and he became even richer.  A short time after that, Joe Kennedy became the first chairman of the Security and Exchange Commission. By a new law he prohibited the manipulation of stocks, something that he himself had been doing. This aspect shows us an important trait of the Kennedys. A Kennedy does not obey rules or laws- he makes them.

See he was one that saw us STUPID Americans when most everybody lost every thing and he took advantage of a situation and made a profit, seems very familar if you ask me.
Making a profit off the backs of others.:shiner:

----------


## jediron1

> *Bush family conspiracy theory*
> 
> *From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.*
> 
> 
> The *Bush family conspiracy theory* is an umbrella term used to describe various conspiracy theory allegations directed towards the family of President George W. Bush, including the President's brother, Florida Governor Jeb Bush, their brother Neil Bush, their father and former President George H. W. Bush, grandfather Prescott Bush, and great-grandfather George Herbert Walker.
> 
> Some allege criminal conspiracies involving United States or multinational corporations, vested interests, US government organizations, and various dictators. While some attach great importance to suggested links which connect individuals and companies, others dismiss some or all of the conspiracy theories as fantasy and claim that these connections are normal for business families and do not imply wrongdoing or malevolence.
> 
> ...


 

Lets see we have the Kennedy *conspiracy theory, the UFO*  *conspiracy theory, the Area 51 conspiracy theory, The* Philadelphia Experiment *conspiracy theory, I could go on and on. What's the point, it's all a conspiracy. As Mulder used to say: "The truth is out there" *

----------


## chip anderson

Why leave out the part about Joe Sr. being a bootlegger? Why leave out the part where as ambassador to England, he managed to arrange a kick back on every bottle of Scotch shipped to the U.S.? 

It's not like this is a secret, even the history channel did an episode or two on this. It's also not like the reason J.F.K could call on Union and the Mafia's support for his first election was the old man's connections with same from the prohibition liquor business.

Now if your really want to know about some real crooks who held the office some time I will tell you about LBJ.
:bbg:

----------


## Spexvet

> Now if your really want to know about some real crooks who held the office some time I will tell you about LBJ.
> :bbg:


Why not tell us about Nixon?

----------


## jediron1

chip anderson
Why leave out the part about Joe Sr. being a bootlegger? Why leave out the part where as ambassador to England, he managed to arrange a kick back on every bottle of Scotch shipped to the U.S.? 

It's not like this is a secret, even the history channel did an episode or two on this. It's also not like the reason J.F.K could call on Union and the Mafia's support for his first election was the old man's connections with same from the prohibition liquor business.

Now if your really want to know about some real crooks who held the office some time I will tell you about LBJ.
:bbg:[/QUOTE]


Chip I agree, but *35oldguy who resides not in the US considers it his right to disagree with all the US actions even though he does not even live here anymore. He decided that living south of the border where*
*the GOOD OLD GREEN BACK WILL GO FURTHER was better than living in the US. I knew all about the boose, how he would collect so much on every import but see 35oldguy doesn't care about that, he doesn't care that there are AA meetings where people are trying to stay sober from the effects of the boose. He does not care that thousands are killed each year by boose ( drunk driving ). Because it was started by a family he likes ( democrats all stick together like liberals they are ) he won't bring a railing accusation against them. :shiner:*

----------


## 35oldguy

Thank you for the history lesson. I enjoyed it!

The Kennedy's took advantage of the situation. Seems like many from the old country had a set of values that drove them to success. In our time though many people would say he did not play by the rules of society. Like it said in this article "they made their own rules!"


[QUOTE=jediron1]


> Just for your information I really think that most people are very stupid!!Including Americans!!! But just for the record I am not making a personal attack on you!! So do not take it personal!! Most people do not understand the politics of this issue!! As far as the Kennedy's if I can remember my history I believe they could have been crooks. But please inform us of the truth!! I would really like to know for sure.
> 
> Do you know how the Bush' made their money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never took it as a personal, attack maybe you did but I didn't. I was commenting on your demeaning wording. As to where Kennedy got his rich's:
> from:http://homepages.uni-tuebingen.de/st...ann/family.htm
> ...

----------


## 35oldguy

> chip anderson
> Why leave out the part about Joe Sr. being a bootlegger? Why leave out the part where as ambassador to England, he managed to arrange a kick back on every bottle of Scotch shipped to the U.S.? 
> 
> It's not like this is a secret, even the history channel did an episode or two on this. It's also not like the reason J.F.K could call on Union and the Mafia's support for his first election was the old man's connections with same from the prohibition liquor business.
> 
> Now if your really want to know about some real crooks who held the office some time I will tell you about LBJ.
> :bbg:


 
Chip I agree, but *35oldguy who resides not in the US considers it his right to disagree with all the US actions even though he does not even live here anymore. He decided that living south of the border where*
*the GOOD OLD GREEN BACK WILL GO FURTHER was better than living in the US. I knew all about the boose, how he would collect so much on every import but see 35oldguy doesn't care about that, he doesn't care that there are AA meetings where people are trying to stay sober from the effects of the boose. He does not care that thousands are killed each year by boose ( drunk driving ). Because it was started by a family he likes ( democrats all stick together like liberals they are ) he won't bring a railing accusation against them. :shiner:* [/QUOTE]

Sorry but usually I am very conservative!! It depends on the issue!!
 I was not old enough to vote when Kennedy was elected. I am a registered democrat who usually votes for who I think has a better chance of achieving my goals. I believe in a balanced budget!! 

As far as AA meetings, if you don't drink you don't put yourself in that position! Same as food. What you put in your mouth is what you are.

I am against drunk drivers. They kill innocent people and usually walk away with a manslaughter charge.

The accusation I made was that I thought the Kennedy's came by their money illegally. Just like the Bush's. I believe they have certain advantages that is not available to other people in business legal or illegal.

As far as the dollar going farther here ummm!! I would say gasoline prices have been higher here for a much longer time than what has been happening in the USA. Since many consumables are imported from other countries I would say the buck does not go as far. What we do get better prices on are products that are grown here. Fruit, Vegatables, etc.

I moved here because of the climate not how far I could stretch the dollar.

----------


## chm2023

> *Bush family conspiracy theory*
> 
> *From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.*
> 
> 
> The *Bush family conspiracy theory* is an umbrella term used to describe various conspiracy theory allegations directed towards the family of President George W. Bush, including the President's brother, Florida Governor Jeb Bush, their brother Neil Bush, their father and former President George H. W. Bush, grandfather Prescott Bush, and great-grandfather George Herbert Walker.
> 
> Some allege criminal conspiracies involving United States or multinational corporations, vested interests, US government organizations, and various dictators. While some attach great importance to suggested links which connect individuals and companies, others dismiss some or all of the conspiracy theories as fantasy and claim that these connections are normal for business families and do not imply wrongdoing or malevolence.
> 
> ...


People love conspiracies, usually wildly overblown.  The serious money (initially) in the Bush family came from George Herbert Walker, whose daughter married Prescott Bush.  He made his bucks in the banking/investment biz.  Apparently a lot of questionable dealings, but then again back in those days a lot of fortunes were built in ways that wouldn't stand much scrutiny today.  (The Kitty Kelly book on the Bushes talks about all of this.  Apparently Prescott's wife was quite a character, very out spoken and adverturous, sounds like a really intriguing woman with a lot of spirit and guts.)

----------


## QDO1

MMM YOU GOT IT CHEAP!!! we have £1.00 per litre here (yep thats a Litre) that translates to £70.00  to fill up my Omega (thats about $140 to fill my Opel Catera in American)... now what does a Optician earn in the USA?

----------


## jediron1

35oldguy said:The accusation I made was that I thought the Kennedy's came by their money illegally. Just like the Bush's. I believe they have certain advantages that is not available to other people in business legal or illegal.



If you did  make that accusation it went by the way side because Chip and myself took it the other way. And as far as the GREEN back goes is reference to 
your living south of the border to enjoy the benefits of a high style lifestyle with your hacienda and maids which probable only cost you a few bucks because you chose not to stay in the STATES. Then you go on your ramblings about how we are STUPID Americans, sounds a little Castro-est or should we say Che Guevara! :shiner:

----------


## jediron1

QDO1
MMM YOU GOT IT CHEAP!!! we have £1.00 per litre here (yep thats a Litre) that translates to £70.00 to fill up my Omega (thats about $140 to fill my Opel Catera in American)... now what does a Optician earn in the USA?[/QUOTE]


Just saw a quote that the price has dropped from $3.69 gal to $3.19 gal. still high!

----------


## 35oldguy

> 35oldguy said:The accusation I made was that I thought the Kennedy's came by their money illegally. Just like the Bush's. I believe they have certain advantages that is not available to other people in business legal or illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> If you did make that accusation it went by the way side because Chip and myself took it the other way. And as far as the GREEN back goes is reference to 
> your living south of the border to enjoy the benefits of a high style lifestyle with your hacienda and maids which probable only cost you a few bucks because you chose not to stay in the STATES. Then you go on your ramblings about how we are STUPID Americans, sounds a little Castro-est or should we say Che Guevara! :shiner:


1. Actually the climate is why I am living here in the beginning. Seventy to seventy-five year round. Pretty nice. The beach is an hour away!

2. I met a very nice lady Guatemalan and we married and this is the reason why I choose to continue to live here. She has three very nice children and 6 grandchildren. My wife would like to move to the states but only because it is so dangerous to live here. No police protection, gangs, drugs, mafia you name it.

3. As far as GREEN BACKS I did not bring any with me. I work for a living just like everyone. Our salarys sometimes do not exist due to the extreme poor economic conditions.

4. Maid service we have two days per week for four hours a day.

5. I came to this country because it is paradise!!! The climate, its people, the culture is so much better than what I was accustomed to in the states.

6. Come take a vacation here in Central America. Maybe you too will become enchanted like so many Americans that live here enjoy.

7. For the wealth though you are sadly mistaken! If you come here to maKE MONEY forget it. If you come here to be of service to someone who needs your help to have a better way of life come on. They will welcome you with open arms!

In the United States they have an organization in St. Louis, MO called VOSH! They have a website. If you are interested take a look. This is what brought me to Guatemala!

----------


## chip anderson

Just heard a report that they are rationing gasoline in Hattiesburg, MS.  I guess in preparation for Rita possibly tearing up Beaumont.

----------


## chip anderson

Please note, at the time old Joe Kennedy made his money from bootlegging, it was prohibition.  Selling Booze was illegal as you could get.


Chip

----------


## 35oldguy

Yes a lot of people who made it big took advantage of situations, legal or not, through networking! Like the skull & bones secret organization that so many of our political figures are members of.

I read where George W. Bush and John Kerry are related. 8th cousins removed. Both are members of this club although publicly they will not discuss the matter. 

The Kennedy's I admire somewhat. They found a way to succeed! Legal or not! 




> Please note, at the time old Joe Kennedy made his money from bootlegging, it was prohibition. Selling Booze was illegal as you could get.
> 
> 
> Chip

----------


## Lynne

Where are your gas prices at now??  Ours is up and going higher according to today's paper.  If the roads were good enough, or if we had decent bike paths, as they do in England,  I'd take a bike to work!!!

----------


## Maria

I have seen a bike path that was, and I am not joking, three feet long, by the side of the road. Why??????

----------


## Lynne

> I have seen a bike path that was, and I am not joking, three feet long, by the side of the road. Why??????


My niece and her family live in Lincoln, and they have WONDERFUL bike paths!  I guess that the 3' was to avoid a bump in the road - or being county council workers they had to go for a smoke, and forgot to come back!:)

----------


## Spexvet

A month ago, gas was down to $1.80 in NJ, now it's up to $2.17!

----------


## Jacqui

Last month $2.19, yesterday $2.49

----------


## spartus

$2.69 or thereabouts here in California. I've just stopped looking at the price. Hurts less that way.

----------


## jediron1

> A month ago, gas was down to $1.80 in NJ, now it's up to $2.17!


 
I have not seen $1.80 in Western N.Y. for over 6 months. A local car wash has the price at $2.38 which is the cheapest in town but the catch is you have to buy the car wash to get that price which is about $.10 lower then any one else. :Cool:

----------


## QDO1

now here is a thing for my chums over the pond to chew on...

UK = £0.99 GBP per LITRE (not gallon) = *$1.76 a LITRE USD*


I filled up my Omega today $£65.00 petrol = *$115.26 USD*

LPG = £0.39 GBP per Litre - that costs me £27.00 to fill up

(I have 2 tanks) Guess what one I drive around on the most!

So can you US folks quit moaning about gas prices!!

----------


## rinselberg

> LPG = £0.39 GBP per Litre - that costs me £27.00 to fill up


I'm curious about driving a gas-fueled vehicle. Does it accelerate as nicely as when you're using gasoline (petrol)? Does a fillup of gas go as many miles as a fillup of gasoline? No pressing reason for this; I just can't pass up a chance to ask a proven man of science ... 
 :)

----------


## QDO1

> I'm curious about driving a gas-fueled vehicle. Does it accelerate as nicely as when you're using gasoline (petrol)? Does a fillup of gas go as many miles as a fillup of gasoline? No pressing reason for this; I just can't pass up a chance to ask a proven man of science ... 
> :)


mmm
LPG is great, although I might not have the most advanced or smooth conversion in the world

the car is a V6 3L automatic, so power isnt generally a issue with it.  A few comments about LPG on this car:  idle is a touch lumpy and wandering - the car has 2 ignition computers, and the LPG one piggybacks the Std petrol one, they seem to have very slightly different needs in idle so they ping between themselves sometimes.  for this reason I flip over to petrol for parking or traffic jams

Over 5 MPH LPG is great, with very slightly reduced power and slightly worse MPG than petrol (like 1-2 MPG worse)... that is based on 29-35 MPG with petrol.  If you floor it going up a steep hill and hook up a diagnostic computer, it  says it runs weak, and eventually, after 20 seconds or so on flat out - it shows it, so again, I flip over to petrol to do this

To be fair, this car (regardless of LPG) is a pig to service, and the general consensus is that it needs a new set of plugs and leads - for which  the right bank is quoted as a 3 hour job!  Ask me in a few weeks when it has been done, because some of my grumbles may be unrelated to LPG

I fill LPG up say 20 times to 1 tank of petrol, so basically the car runs on LPG

I used to race cars, and I have no issues with the car being slugish.  I would say that LPG ought to be looked into much more seriously. I can accelerate, demand engine breaking, be smooth or aggresive with no problems.  Occasionly the slightly different maping trips up the automatic gearbox computer when in sports mode, but to be frank, that isnt a issue, as the box changes slightly late rather than early

In the emmisions test - on petrol the figures for hydrocarbons looked normal, when put on gas, they all go to 0.00 - 0.01%!

Oil comes out cleaner than it goes in!

I would get another one - definatally - I drive a big car for the same price as a small one, and being 6'5 (need a big car seat) thats cool

----------


## drk

The in-laws have a Toyota Prius.  It drives like a "real car".  If we all eventually went hybrid, it'd be just fine.

----------


## Jacqui

Prices are DOWN a nickel here today

----------


## optispares

record profits of $36 billion anounced today.The highest ever recorded by any company:hammer:

----------


## Spexvet

> record profits of $36 billion anounced today.The highest ever recorded by any company:hammer:


That should make the whitehouse happy! :Mad:

----------


## chm2023

> That should make the whitehouse happy!


And don't forget the energy billed just passed with gazillions of tax breaks--"incentives"--for oil companies. Gotta love this version of Republicanism: socialize the risk, privatize the profits.

Bush will have a golden opportunity to speak to the energy dependence issue in his SOTU address. As I have stated ad naseum, what we need is a Manhatten project or moon landing effort--a visionary plan to reduce our dependence on (foreign) oil. Don't hold your breath.

----------


## Spexvet

One of the issues, as gas prices sky rocketed last summer, was the limited refining capabilities. The oil industry, as I recall, said that refining was maxxed out, and importing more crude would not have made a significant difference. There has not been a new refinery built in the US in something like thirty years. (aside - it's funny how refining increased when environmental restrictions were dropped.) Will any of this huge windfall profit be used to build new refineries??? I think it should.

----------


## QDO1

> record profits of $36 billion anounced today.The highest ever recorded by any company:hammer:


I dont think our friends in the US have absorbed the actual price we pay in the UK, which is UK = £0.99 GBP per LITRE (not gallon) = *$1.76 a LITRE USD,* which is more than* three time the price* they pay in the USA

----------


## chm2023

> I dont think our friends in the US have absorbed the actual price we pay in the UK, which is UK = £0.99 GBP per LITRE (not gallon) = *$1.76 a LITRE USD,* which is more than* three time the price* they pay in the USA


We get it.  And for myself, I think we would be better off if we had the same pricing.  To be fair, distances in the UK are not what they are in the US (to work, school etc) and our mass transportation is inadequate in most areas.

----------


## QDO1

> We get it. And for myself, I think we would be better off if we had the same pricing. To be fair, distances in the UK are not what they are in the US (to work, school etc) and our mass transportation is inadequate in most areas.


our public transport is rediculously crap.. my partner spends 1/3 her salary on fuel to get to work.  does your head in - she doesnt earn much, and has a diddly little mondeo

----------


## acredhead113

> our public transport is rediculously crap.. my partner spends 1/3 her salary on fuel to get to work. does your head in - she doesnt earn much, and has a diddly little mondeo


I still say do a bit of volunteer rationing. Ride with a friend etc. Use less and tell the Arabs to keep that black stuff in the ground!!!

----------


## QDO1

> I still say do a bit of volunteer rationing. Ride with a friend etc. Use less and tell the Arabs to keep that black stuff in the ground!!!


thats a neat idea, but she works as a 1-1 carer, all over the county, at any hour of the day.  I have a LPG car, which helps

----------


## spartus

> I dont think our friends in the US have absorbed the actual price we pay in the UK, which is UK = £0.99 GBP per LITRE (not gallon) = *$1.76 a LITRE USD,* which is more than* three time the price* they pay in the USA


For the truly metric-illiterate: 1 Litre/Liter = 1.0566882 quart. Four quarts to a gallon, etc., etc.

----------


## rbaker

Think a gallon of gas is expensive?

This makes one think, and also puts things in perspective.

Diet Snapple 16 oz $1.29 .. . $10.32 per gallon
Lipton Ice Tea 16 oz $1.19 .... $9.52 per gallon
Gatorade 20 oz $1.59 ........... $10.17 per gallon
Ocean Spray 16 oz $1.25 ...... $10.00 per gallon
Brake Fluid 12 oz $3.15 ......... $33.60 per gallon
Vick's Nyquil 6 oz $8.35 ......... $178.13 per gallon
Pepto Bismol 4 oz $3.85 . ... $123.20 per gallon
Whiteout 7 oz $1.39 .............. $25.42 per gallon
Scope 1.5 oz $0.99 .............. $84.48 per gallon

And this is the REAL KICKER...

Evian water 9 oz $1.49 ........... $21.19 per gallon?! 

$21.19 for WATER - and the buyers don't even know the source. (Evian spelled backwards is Naive.) So, the next time you're at the pump, be glad your car doesn't run on water, Scope, or Whiteout, or God forbid Pepto Bismal or Nyquil.

----------


## chm2023

> Think a gallon of gas is expensive?
> 
> This makes one think, and also puts things in perspective.
> 
> Diet Snapple 16 oz $1.29 .. . $10.32 per gallon
> Lipton Ice Tea 16 oz $1.19 .... $9.52 per gallon
> Gatorade 20 oz $1.59 ........... $10.17 per gallon
> Ocean Spray 16 oz $1.25 ...... $10.00 per gallon
> Brake Fluid 12 oz $3.15 ......... $33.60 per gallon
> ...


By the same logic, be happy a pound of sugar doesn't cost as much as a pound of gold. I seem to be missing the point?

----------


## rbaker

No point intended, just a cute observation.

----------


## chm2023

> No point intended, just a cute observation.


Oh and I suppose you're going to deny stealing my strawberries as well!!!!:shiner:

----------


## Lynne

> For the truly metric-illiterate: 1 Litre/Liter = 1.0566882 quart. Four quarts to a gallon, etc., etc.


Ah, but, one American Pint = 16 fl. oz, therefore one gallon = 128 fl. oz.
            one British Pint     = 20 fl. oz therefore one gallon  = 160 fl. oz.

so we have to put that into the equation too!!

----------


## Spexvet

Price around here is $2.99/gal.

Do you think that the Cheney administration is in cahoots with Big Oil to extort ANWR drilling? If they make us feel the price crunch, will the average American pressure congress into ruining the Alaskan environment? Is the price increase just a ploy?

----------


## hcjilson

When the 2nd quarter figures are in for Exxon! If its a question of supply and demand, there doesn't seem to be much of a shortage of 2.99 gas. I still say the best ploy will be to stop driving. I don't mean altogether, I mean those useless trips we all make. I've heard that if the driving public can reduce its usage by 3 % the message will have been sent. This situation is payback for a lot of the policies of the present administration. Don't look for any help from them.

----------


## chm2023

Watched Bush's speech today.  Do I never learn?  The lack of vision is truly extraordinary.

He is earmarking $1.2 billion for hydrogen power research.  To put this in perspective, this is 3 times the amount of the retirement package for Exxon's CEO.  Wheee.

He is still beating the ANWR deadhorse.  The Energy Dept own numbers say if this were a go today, the first oil we would see would be in 2013 and output would peak in 2025.  If all the Energy Dept's projections are right, the oil from ANWR would equate to .4% of foreign imports over that time period.  Again, wheeee.

He is getting _very tough_ with the oil companies.  Over the _next 10 years_ he wants to roll back $2 billion of the recently passed tax incentives.  Again, to put in perspective, Exxon last year netted $36 billion profit.  (Stock tip, don't go dumping any of that Exxon or Conoco stock;  call me a cockeyed optimist, but I predict they will weather this blow.)

Of course no talk of mandatory fuel efficiency standands, something we know works and is relatively easy to implement.

I would make a really awful politician, I'm too much of a softie.  I actually feel sorry for W.  It's clear that he thinks he is doing the best he can.  (I am sorry to tell you: I believe he's right.)  He looks puzzled as to why people don't like him.  It's just pitiful.:(

----------


## Lynne

> Price around here is $2.99/gal.
> 
> Do you think that the Cheney administration is in cahoots with Big Oil to extort ANWR drilling? If they make us feel the price crunch, will the average American pressure congress into ruining the Alaskan environment? Is the price increase just a ploy?


$3.73!!

----------


## Jacqui

Was $2.91 this morning, now $2.95

http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_gastemperaturemap.aspx

----------


## Snitgirl

Just paid $1.18 per *liter* here in Canada... HOLY! Just moved up from the states so gas prices are quite the change for me.  No wonder why your transit system is so great here in Canada.

let's see.  1 liter = 0.26 gallons.... lol, you do the math...

i feel for the u.k r's....

----------


## Cindy K

> Just paid $1.18 per *liter* here in Canada... HOLY! Just moved up from the states so gas prices are quite the change for me. No wonder why your transit system is so great here in Canada.


Don't forget, here in the Fraser Valley we don't have the transit tax added on as you city people do. We're at $1.06 at most stations. At a SuperStore gas bar, even .05$ less.

I live in Hope, but work in Abbotsford, a daily round trip commute of basically 200kms. A tank of gas lasts me 3 days. At $50. a tank. And I work 5 days a week.

----------


## Spexvet

Does the Canadian government subsidise the oil industry the way the US government does?

----------


## hcjilson

This administration IS the oil industry!

----------


## Cindy K

> Does the Canadian government subsidise the oil industry the way the US government does?




Base price represents the approximate Canadian national average before tax price for 2005.

Information obtained as of March 1, 2006. Taxes listed are for gasoline only.

____________________________________________________________  ___________________


The website this is an excerpt from (PetroCanada) also states that the average amount of tax on gas is 35% in Canada, compared to 20% in the US. Therefore, it would seem conclusive that yes, the gov't DOES indeed subsidize the gas industry. And quite heavily, in fact.

----------


## jediron1

> Just paid $1.18 per *liter* here in Canada... HOLY! Just moved up from the states so gas prices are quite the change for me. No wonder why your transit system is so great here in Canada.
> 
> let's see. 1 liter = 0.26 gallons.... lol, you do the math...
> 
> i feel for the u.k r's....


 
I believe it was the Today show today said gas prices in the UK were $6.58 per
Gal. WOW no wonder they don't drive far or much. :drop:

----------


## hcjilson

they have a very efficient public transit system. I have not traveled extensively in Great Britan but when I spent some time in Wimbleton I wondered why anyone would need a car. We traveled everywhere we wanted to go by train. It was wonderful.

The problem we have in the states is that we're spread out, and largely without public transit, save the metropolitan areas. If we weren't spending so much time and money protecting existing oil resources, we could be putting together a transit system......Nawh! we'd rather fight a war. We deserve what's happening now, and we can only blame ourselves. A bitter pill.

----------


## Spexvet

> He is still beating the ANWR deadhorse. The Energy Dept own numbers say if this were a go today, the first oil we would see would be in 2013 and output would peak in 2025. If all the Energy Dept's projections are right, the oil from ANWR would equate to .4% of foreign imports over that time period. Again, wheeee.


This administration is not about doing what's right or best; it's about making a decision (for God only knows what reasons) and then forcing it down people's throats.



> Of course no talk of mandatory fuel efficiency standands, something we know works and is relatively easy to implement.


And what about the 55 MPH speed limit? That's a real simple solution that works.

----------


## chm2023

Has anyone read about the Brazilian experience?  Apparently have changed from a standard auto market to mostly flex-fuel vehicles in just a few years.  (The major auto manufacturer in Brazil is GM).  They claim they are now fuel independent as a nation.  My understanding (which is not great) is that ethanol is not cheap to produce at this point, but expectations are that as the experience curve is climbed, the price will drop.  And of course there is the stand alone benefit of not being at the mercy of unfriendly regimes.

----------


## Spexvet

They also do* not* use corn as the base for their ethanol...Go Yellow!

----------


## jediron1

> Has anyone read about the Brazilian experience? Apparently have changed from a standard auto market to mostly flex-fuel vehicles in just a few years. (The major auto manufacturer in Brazil is GM). They claim they are now fuel independent as a nation. My understanding (which is not great) is that ethanol is not cheap to produce at this point, but expectations are that as the experience curve is climbed, the price will drop. And of course there is the stand alone benefit of not being at the mercy of unfriendly regimes.


 
Truly amazing if true. Makes you wonder what else GM is trying to hide from the American public. :Cool:

----------


## rsandr

> I have a LPG car, which helps


How long do you think it will be before you a screwed like the rest of us?

I remember when diesel was cheap.

----------


## jediron1

> How long do you think it will be before you a screwed like the rest of us?
> 
> I remember when diesel was cheap.


 
I think quite soon. Just paid $3.00 per gal. Western N.Y. :Eek:

----------


## optigrrl

$3.19/gal :angry:

----------


## jediron1

> $3.19/gal :angry:


 

Now that deserves a WOW!  :Eek:

----------


## optigrrl

Personally I feel a 4-lettered word would be more appropriate...hehe

----------


## Jacqui

$2.85, has gone down a bit here.

----------


## JennyP

$2.62 last night for the cheapest unleaded I could find. 
(Average is about $2.75 for same grade.) 
And it still cost over $50 to fill the tank in our lift van.

----------


## jediron1

As of last night was sitting at $3.09 per gal. Another $3.00 plus and we will be where the UK is at. WOW  :Eek:

----------


## optigrrl

One of my Lux reps came by - I think just to brag - but he showed me a receipt where a gas station in northern AZ charged him $.332/gal. 


Lucky jerk. More power to him. :cheers:

----------


## Jubilee

I know we had a local gas station that had someone "reprogram" the pump to read .028/gal. The crime wasn't caught till some lady went and talked to the cashier because she was only charged $0.37 to fill up her car. 

Now they are trying to track down all the people who had gotten gas during that time, and asking for payment.. since the posted price was $2.78/gal....

Cassandra

----------


## Joann Raytar

Same here.  $44 to fill up from 1/4 tank left.  I nearly fell over.


> As of last night was sitting at $3.09 per gal. Another $3.00 plus and we will be where the UK is at. WOW

----------


## rbaker

I went to pick up Rocket Sled at the Worcester, MA Regional Airport yesterday and without thinking had the C-210 topped off. Signed credit card for 83.6 gallons of 100LL for $443.92. Thats $5.31 a gallon. Fortunately aviation fuel prices vary quite a bit. My next purchase will be in Spencer, just a few miles away, where fuel is going for $3.36 a gallon.

All of the auto gas prices around here are within a penny or so of one another. Do you remember price wars? At least for now, I guess they are a thing of the past.

----------


## jediron1

> Same here. $44 to fill up from 1/4 tank left. I nearly fell over.


 
Lucky, for some reason though the price has taken a drop to $2.87 per. Makes you wonder! I still can't get over seeing $51.00 for a fill-er-up. I remember in 1970 in College grabbing my pennies and putting in .75 cents for 3 gal of gas in my Corvair. But then my father law topped me when he said he still remembers when he paid .05 and .10 per gal. with full service, that means check oil, wipe windows and check tire pressure and check radiator. ;)

----------


## Joann Raytar

I just paid $3.19 two days ago.  :cry:

----------


## optigrrl

Paid $3.09 yesterday. Jediron1, thought you were younger...:)

----------


## jediron1

> Paid $3.09 yesterday. Jediron1, thought you were younger...:)


 
Well thank you for those kind words. But I was raised on Hop-A-Long Cassidy and the Original Super Mouse Might Mouse and who could forget One Step Beyond. So ya I m 55 years young. And I still remember the original Woodstock. 
 :Cool:

----------


## jediron1

> Same here. $44 to fill up from 1/4 tank left. I nearly fell over.


 
Maybe for a bale of hay we could use this: http://agnews.tamu.edu/stories/ANSC/methane.htm

Ya I know shoveling that stuff into your engine would be a chore but look how much money you would save and how cleaner everything would be. Smell they would have to work on.

----------


## GOS_Queen

> So ya I m 55 years young. And I still remember the original Woodstock.


 
Hmmm.... if you still *remember* the original Woodstock, I'm thinking you weren't there ...  ;) :p

----------


## Jacqui

I rermember the original Woodstock, I was there, even have pics of me there.  :)  :)  :) 

I also remember buying 20 gallons of gas to fill my then new car (1969) and getting change from a $5.00  :)  :)  :)

----------


## jediron1

> Hmmm.... if you still *remember* the original Woodstock, I'm thinking you weren't there ... ;) :p


 
No I was not there, I had a chance to go but money and going to college got in the way. But I was there in spirit. Would have loved to have seen Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young in concert at that time. Go Buffalo Spring Field. ;)

----------


## optigrrl

I just wish that I was old enough to have seen Led Zepplin live - just once. Oh, and English Beat, too! At least I got to go to a few Dead shows, including a New Years' Eve in SF....

----------


## chm2023

I was at Woodstock as well and do remember most of it!!!  (I rarely bring this up as the first question always has to do with how many people, including myself, were naked....what happened in Woodstock, stayed in Woodstock, right Jacqui?):p 


As for gas prices, I refuse to notice.  What's the use?

----------


## Jacqui

> I was at Woodstock as well and do remember most of it!!!  (I rarely bring this up as the first question always has to do with how many people, including myself, were naked....what happened in Woodstock, stayed in Woodstock, right Jacqui?):p


NAKED :drop:   Not me, I was a good girl (kinda)  :Rolleyes:   :Rolleyes:

----------


## Jacqui

Gas is now $3.09 in Cheeseheadland. :(  :(  :(

----------


## Lynne

> Gas is now $3.09 in Cheeseheadland. :( :( :(


Cheapest on Maui - $3.629 for the past two weeks, :(  :Mad:   :cry:   :cry:  shall have to get myself a SmartKa from England (maybe the spelling isn't right, but that dinky two seater with 60 miles to the gallon!!)

----------


## jediron1

> Cheapest on Maui - $3.629 for the past two weeks, :(    shall have to get myself a SmartKa from England (maybe the spelling isn't right, but that dinky two seater with 60 miles to the gallon!!)


 

I just saw on the today show in N.Y. 3.66 per gal. As I have said before they want gas at 4.00 bucks per gal. If we need oil why is a 1999 report being snubbed that said there is possible more oil in North D. and Montana than in Sudia A. over 400 billion gal. Seems to me it's not about getting oil but who controls that region of the world and it looks like the US wants to be the New British empire where the sun never sets. Just my 2 cents  :Cool: 

Here's a link to the above article:
http://www.bismarcktribune.com/artic...5430204114.txt

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