# Professional and Educational Organizations > Professional and Educational Organizations Discussion Forum >  The Organization of Opticianry

## Bev Heishman

And I may get in trouble for recommending to a low vision patient a magnifier or vision aid or filter lens that may benefit them if I am in private practice in this state if optometry is successful in passing their bill to expand their scope of practice. The same would be true for a social worker working with the visually handicapped. 

Granted not every one is qualified and I realize that as opticians. However there is the possibility of formal education requirements coupled with internships or apprenticeships that should be the wave for all in opticianry and a qualification in the future for board  certification. My thought ...get with the program, accept change so we can move on or roll over and die and get over it. However I can say that equally stands for the other O's also. Stone throwing is a way to hide behind inadequacies. You need to specialize and focus and have a team that balances your objectives and goals.

Let me say that I am the person or one of my staff to make additional recommendations delegated to the ranks and conversing with the patient after referral by both the MD and OD to assist them in their quality of life. It is rewarding and frustrating  and many doc's frankly don't want to deal with it. No one can be all things to all people.

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## MVEYES

You're right on track. We not only are witnessing a movement of Optometry to increase their scope of practice but we are also witnessing a movement to keep our scope narrowed or diminish what we have. Vigilence and collective action is critical in our pursuit. 


 :Cool:  Jerry

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## Joann Raytar

You are both right; we all have got to start getting are stuff together!

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## Homer

while getting our crop all in a row is a great idea it is highly unlikely.   The proof is that many who contribute here are hardly able to agree on anything from the definition of the O's - or what it should be - let along getting involved in their state and national organizations which have a chance of promoting their cause.

While it is true that  education is critical for advancement, look at what it has done for Ophthalmology.

Education without orgizational unity and MONEY will make opticians lik what inTexas is called; "Big hat, no cattle".

My experience is that a large number of opticians are far too petty to join or start an organization and certainly too cheap to heavily support one.   They are largely a bunch of thumb-suckers who keep asking "what are you going to do for ME!"

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## Joann Raytar

*I have copied some of theses posts over here from the thread General Discussion Forum > OD's getting it from all sides because folks made some good points about how formal education and better organization might secure the future of Opticianry.

Often, when we talk about what steps must be taken to organize Opticianry we, myself included, speak from a "If I were President" viewpoint.  While this often brings about some interesting ideas, the threads often end up looking more like "Wish Lists" more than they do "To Do" lists.  Wishing for things seems to only work in storybooks.

If we thought not as potential board members or optical politicians would our goals be more realistic?  What things do we need or what levels of professionalism must we achieve to feel more secure on a day to day basis as opticians in the field?

What do we want...?
... more respect in general?
... recognition as health care providers by insurance companies?
... recognition by our local and national governments?
... market share as optical hardware providers to consumers?
... better pay scales?

What steps can we take to achieve our realistic wants and needs as a profession?  Are we ready to allow all opticians to be on equal playing fields and to defend other opticians even if they aren't in our own categories of optical establishments?  Are we ready to overcome our fear of turning to higher learning institutions to gain our credability as educated professionals?  Are we ready to ally with other O's who support us and go against those that don't?

This all may have to start on local levels and it may be tough.

Anyone have any ideas on what we want or need and where to start getting it?*

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## mobile OD

Is it okay for the optometric profession to extend its limits into medical eye care, advancing optometry to new boundaries, on the one hand, but then wanting to limit opticians, when theyre desiring to advance their profession ?

For those who are troubled with the ramifications of such an entity as a refracting optician, dont be too concerned.  ODs and OMDs have been around for generations, and many are still unable to refract with consistent accuracy.  But apparently the patients dont care very much.  They just go to another doc, and many dont even do that !  

Do you really think refracting opticians are going to suddenly be more accurate ?  I doubt it.  When you get to eat your mistakes without having to answer to a higher authority, one can become quite a connoisseur of CR 39 cuisine.  

If the truth is to be known, in about a couple of hours an optician can be taught what he/she needs to know to refract and prescribe spectacles with enough accuracy, to satisfy about 60% of the population.  And isnt accurate enough what many patients now get ?   Its knowing how to refract and prescribe for the other 40 %, that requires further training.

For generations there has been a pecking order in health related fields.  The MDs have done their best to keep osteopaths, chiropractors, podiatrists, and optometrists from advancing.  Are the ODs doing the same thing in continuing to keep opticians from further advancement ?

The only health profession that seems immune is dentistry.  They are quietly in their corner, doing rather well, thank you, while many of the other health professions continue slicing up each other, and the pie.

In all cases of advancing professions, there has been a concurrent expansion in the education arena.  Only through advancing their educational training, will opticians be able to justify to the powers of influence, (ie lawmakers, healthcare providers, insurance companies, and the general public), an expansion in the scope of their profession.  

Short of this educational advancement, refracting opticians will be perceived as 'Weeds in the Garden of Eyecare'.  

This further education, is the price opticianry must be willing to pay for their continued evolution.  Are they willing to do it ?

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## Bev Heishman

Change is the hardest thing for us humans to do but it is extremely necessary for growth.  Baby steps than big steps and we can move mountains.  

My comments written in the post moved here are not to inflame anyone.  The world is not standing still nor should it for opticianry.
What we need to do is stand united through diversity and work together as a team. Persistence is necessary and numbers do talk. Homer is right. It is easy to sit back and be an arm chair quarterback or a back seat driver but that is all that it amounts to. 

State and national organizations must work together and be united and membership in all is important.  They are established and recognized however they must change and accept the changes for the betterment of a profession or to understand opticianry will have no future. 

Defining an optician and their responsibilities should be a standard in all states licensed or not. Those that are not meeting the standards should not be recognized as opticians and maybe that should be the very basis in conjoined legislative initiative....define the scope of practice and recognize a national credentialing exam as its basis with education standards in place. Education standards define this and this is not a new concept. It was introduced if I can recall correctly 10 years ago at a state leaders meeting. May we finally get on board and make it a reality.

Unfortuneately I could not attend the state leaders meeting again this year but I stand united with them that this is the time for us to help steer the ship towards the world of tommorrow.
:cheers:

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## Alan W

If anyone ever said opticians are  undereducated, it falls in more areas than technical.  One of the "other" areas is in business.
By that I mean . . . knowing what it takes to mark the territory!

Education is education is education.
Public education is almost non existent with opticianry.
And, if opticianry really looked at the budgets for marketing and public information of ophthalmology and optometry, they's pass out stone cold on the floor.

You can educate until your ears turn red.
But, without a voice you have no choice!

More money is raised every year with golf tournaments for optometry and ophthalmology than all the dues opticians pay nationally in their societies combined. The same applies to Prevent Blindness, Inc.
When it comes to opticians using their noggins to raise some capital to market themselves . . . they fall flat on their gluteous maximuses.

We are what we are because we are what we allowed ourselves to be. And, wanting to be better is simply not shared . . . philosophically or in workload to aquire it.  We continue to attract corporate misfits who continuously slaughter the pay scale by popping out cookie cutter frame sales people and "remote traces" of opticians. Does medicine allow corporate medical slimeballs to practice very long? I don't think so. They pay for the power of the press. We're lucky if we even buy the newspaper!

Frankly, I don't want to hear about opticians "educating and legislating" themselves into fame and fortune (used as a colloqueial expression) . First, they need to do what it takes to pay for it.  That's where it's at....where the rubber meets the road . . . Get that act together then we have a shot at it.  

Now, where's my Pepcid?

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## Joann Raytar

> _Originally posted by Bev Heishman_ 
> *My comments written in the post moved here are not to inflame anyone.  The world is not standing still nor should it for opticianry.*


Bev,

We all know your comments posted above weren't intended to inflame anyone.  However, I am hoping those comments and any more productive ideas we have will light that proverbially fire under us.  ;) 


> *Defining an optician and their responsibilities should be a standard in all states licensed or not.*


Any ideas on how to get this started?

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## Bev Heishman

Jo,

We define scope of practice.  The ABO has a listing of criteria to be met to define certification standards that is a start.  That would help in getting unlicensed states on board and work to introduce.

We also look at all licensed states definitions as  a dispenser exempt from CL's and list a "job description" to start.

I do not think we should discuss in any further detail in a public forum.  I say this as a legislative chair and an individual who has lobbied other issues beyond opticianry. Information is miss construed and utilized against the original purpose as you may have picked up in another post.

Bev:)

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## Homer

We need to discuss the real issues somewhere else .... but I must say that blowing all of this colorful smoke has been fun and I hope it gets in to the appropriate eyes, be they any of the 3-O's.

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## Joann Raytar

Bev and Homer,

I agree with both of you.  However, I am looking for concepts more like what Alan W has offered; things we all can do everyday to improve our situation.  Alan's idea is market yourself and your profession along with yourself.  This is something all of us can do everytime we run a print or media ad.

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## Homer

Jo, your idea is good but how could you, personally, as an optician in the situation you are in, dedicate a protion of a marketing plan to the promotion of the profession of opticianry?

Challenge to the gang: 

My guess is that less than 5% of those people who would, could or do call themselves professional opticians, have access to or influence over any marketing dollars.    If the 95% should be asked their opinion, it might be whether we should market Transitions, Polo or cosmetic contact lenses but never would they be given the opprotunity to even mention opticianry as a profession --- except perhaps as ABO (this or that) since it makes their employers look good.

One of the things you will notice in these posts is that there is great disparity between those who are independent opticians operating a daily business and those who are employed by OD's, MD's, HMO's and International Corperations.    The employees are full of ideas and ability to express them but they bring no money to the table and yet would continually complain about the high price of State and National Organizations.

Were it not for independent opticians who are business owners, there would be no state or national organizations who promote entry-level certification, continuing education and advanced levels for opticianry.   

In many cases, it would not be to the advantage of these independent business owners to obtain licensure in their states, but look at who supports the legislative programs and goes to the capital to give testimony!

While I'm on this blow ........ If the very independent, outspoken employee opticians, who want "mother" to improve their lot and get them respect and a bigger paycheck, would get in line and contribute to their state and national organizations in the same way that the independent owners have done we might get somewhere.

Some of you may remember my "beer can economics" of a few months ago.   If all of the optician employees who drink designer beer or specialty coffees or suck on cancer-sticks, would give up a portion of that discretionary income ( like a beer a day or coffee a day ...) we could all get where we want to go with great power and some money.

The alternative choice is to go back to talking in your sleep or becoming a kind of "literary society" who have read all the books and have great philosophical opinions about most everything and tells others what should be done, but does nothing to change the state of affairs.

OK, that's out,   now back to the missed opprotunities.

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## Joann Raytar

Homer,

My boss and owner of our shop is an OD yet he still registers the place as a Licensed Optical Shop with a Licensed Optician responsible for what goes on.  Everyone that works there is apprenticed with the state.  All but one of us is ABOC/NCLC.  All but one of us (  :Rolleyes:   ) is a member of our state association.  We let our customers know that.  How?  The certificates on the wall, our yellow pages ad, certification pins and window stickers are all cheap advertising.  The pins get the most notice; folks tend to ask what they are for.

I think even the chains will allow ABO/NCLE pins.  How much could it cost to note that your staff is qualified in a yelloow pages ad?  Why couldn't one shop or a group of area opticians get together and use local cable advertising?  In our area the MD's and OD's do.

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## Cindy Hamlin

> _Originally posted by Jo_ 
> *  How much could it cost to note that your staff is qualified in a yelloow pages ad?  *


Jo, 
Speaking as one who has first hand knowledge of these costs, I can tell you that the cost for yellow page ads are quite high.  They run anywhere from $400-$600 per month.  If your area is broken up into regional phone books, you can multiply that times the number of books!

I agree that you can list the optician's credentials in the phone book, but understand that is if you have no turn over!  If that license leaves you have no way of withdrawing the ad.  You have to live with it for a year (at least) when it is posted.  In our transitory field of Opticianry, you don't normally keep licenses that long.  Most are looking for greener ;) pastures.

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## Joann Raytar

I forgot not every state is the same.  In CT since the store is a Licensed Optical Shop there must always be an Optician on.  The phone book ad reads "Licensed Optician" and "Certified Staff."

Upon hiring people, our Doctor asks if they are serious about Opticianry and if they want to persue their Licenses; he supports his staff gaining certification and licensure.  We help with our end and he helps folks learn the Contact Lens areas of study.  He wants his staff at least certified.

We also get those PennySaver ads pretty cheap and do the same thing.

How else are we going to tell the public we are qualified?  We have to introduce ourselves to more than just the other O's as providing a health service.

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## Homer

n situations from state to state, especially between licensed states.  On the other hand, the situations in the majority of states (those that are unlicensed) are actually much more uniform.

Here in Colorado, many, if not most, OD's operate under a trade name many of them appearing to be independent optical shops - much like your situation, Jo.

Have you ever tried to market an eye examination?  I mean what can you really say?  We look deeper into your eyes?   We detect more diseases?  We have more accurat prescriptions??
What you CAN market is an optical shop and all of the variety of services,  products and TECHNICIANS that go with it.   These doctors are very, clever, knowing that what people are buying is much more related to the right, privilage, justification and encouragement to buy new eyewear than it is to getting a clean bill of health and "you don't have a disease".  

I believe that what most employed opticians want is a little more respect and a little bigger paycheck.  They spend very little time thinking of being a stand-alone profession.    What I think most of us old guys & gals are trying to say is that we would like to see opticianry as a stand-alone profession that qualifies for third-party payments and the right to make judgement calls regarding eyewear without fear of someone breathing down our necks because we decided, with the patient, that the add power needs to be a little weaker or a little stronger.  (calls that I used to make all of the time when working in an OD's office)

In other words, some of us are thinking a lot about independence while others are only thinking of a way to force doctors and other employers to pay them more.     I see this as a big difference when we are talking about education, marketing and political action that will improve opticianry.

A few years ago a group of OD's wanted me to kind of duplicate the Lenscrafter idea of a "lab in the window."   I decided that I did not want to be the organ-grinder's monkey in the window and work for peanuts while they took home the "professional fees".

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## optigoddess

Jo, you mentioned in your post:  How are we going to tell the public that we are qualified?  

Well, I suggest that if a optical professional is REALLY serious about their occupation, they would become THE source for media.  A lot of senior citizen newspapers have yearly "health" issues.  I would suggest not only an ad but perhaps contributing as an expert on an article on progressive lenses, uv protection, macular degen. whatever!

Most "parents" magazines (the local community ones) have a back to school issue - you can do the same thing!  (perhaps discussing in the article how often parents should get their kids eyes checked, how school screenings are NOT a replacement for an eye exam, how fashionable the eyewear is now for kids, why poly is a good lens for kids, maybe a checklist for some things for parents to watch for!  

Perhaps, with that in mind, put together a pamphlet and contact the local pediatricians.  partner with them for referrals.  

How about the months that feature glaucoma or diabetic eye disease?  Are you using those as an opportunity to recommend routine eyecare -- because you can't "feel" it when your eyes go bad?  

I just opened my local phone book.  I was looking for an ad I came across when I moved here 2 years ago (can't find the one I was looking for but I'll keep looking).  The ad I wanted to find was rather clever - it said "  We promise NOT to do your glasses in an hour".  i decided to read the ads in the yellow pages  and came across these phrases I liked:  "bifocal alternatives" "safety eyewear specialist" "sports vision" .  

jut some thoughts.....
Karen

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## Joann Raytar

optigoddess,

Talk about advertising.  Below is a link to a local FM Radio Website.  It is a rock station catering to some college age people but mostly 30 year olds and up.  They have been advertising "Ask the Experts" a joint venture between WPLR, Dr. Spector and Milford Camera for two weeks now but online and on-the-air.  Milford Camera is a very popular shop so this is a great idea.

Here is the banner ad down on the right hand side of the page below the calendar and search boxes:*http://wplr.com/about_us/dj-central.html*And here is the webpage for Dr. Spector on "Ask the Experts:"* http://wplr.com/ads/expert-dr-scott-spector.html* It is simple but a great way to advertise.

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## MVEYES

Your analogy is appropriate for the sentiments toward Opticians.



> Short of this educational advancement, refracting opticians will be perceived as 'Weeds in the Garden of Eyecare'.


The focus we need is on formal education first and then our scope of practice can legitimately challenge its boundaries. There are many Opticians who are capable of doing a refraction in the mentorship of a Doc and doing a good one.  I speak only of refraction as a mechanical process not the examination for disease processes. 
Formal education should be demanded of Opticians by OMD's and Optometrists not fought against by these groups. Licensure should be demanded of Opticians in every State by OMD's and Optometrists not fought against by these groups. 
We can say anonymously what we like in forums like this but do we have the guts to stand up in our respective associations (OD's and OMD's and Opticians) and speak logical sense about the need for formal education and licensure throughout all of the eyecare professions not just the 2 O's.  Then you would not talk of weeds but you would talk of the orderly garden that our "O" professions could be proud of dealing with each other in a cooperative manner.


 :Cool:  Jerry

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## ts

The formal education concept was introduced 10 years ago at the leadership conference in Dallas, Texas, The basis for that was hatched at a state meeting in columbus, Ohio with Ed Degenaro and Roy furgeson and few Ohio people. OAA introduced formal education as a resolution at the convention in cincinnati, Ohio in 1992. It has been intorduced in states over the years but with the clout of retail merchants getting stronger it is getting harder to get done. 
Advertising to the General public may be a good idea because it might be done as a free or cheep public anuncement spot explaining who an optician is.  This was done before though billboards and adds on busses, how effective it was is hard to say. 
Can we all work together? yes, if we get ride of this if i give an association $10 i expect $10 worth of tangable service. 
OAA is no different than a state org. there are expenses to operate it so you do not get all of your fees back dollar for dollar. 
As I have heard someone say  before "If we lose OAA how long before you lose you state license ect.

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## Homer

I was there too.   We all went back and adopted resolutions in our state societies to support minimum education standards and then .......................  nobody knew what to do about it.    

We all tried to get schools started.     Now schools are closing.

Even this distance learning is having a hard time getting support and students.

You have exactly state the absurdity of the day where people want to get a  200% return on a $10.00 membership  ..... maybe that's because they sell $10 frames for $30.

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## MVEYES

Because we have brought up the subject of formal education in the past doesn't mean that with good planning we couldn't legislate it. Money is squandered by those who don't know how to handle it. Budgets are put together to use what money there is to achieve some of the goals in the plan. Without accountability of the funds that a group has accumulated the membership will definitely have a hard time putting even $10 into the fund. Answer some basic questions about the last 10 years of accomplishments that OAA has made with the funds that just Ohio has put into it. If you tell me grants, I will reply to you that we have received one grant that I can remember worth about  $2500. When we pay dues to OAA of close to $48,000 for the last 4 years. We're just one state. What has OAA done with that money. It doesn't even look like a 10% return on investment?


 :Confused:  Jerry

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## ts

one thing that is missing in this picture is the fact that opticians are represented on national committees because of the oaa.
we are on committees that review and adjust payment for medicare, coa which reviews schools to make sure they are up to standard, abo which reviews and administers national exams
ansi, which reviews and sets standards for eyeware, we are also consaulted on other issues of intrest. maybe it would be good to invite a past  president of oaa  to your meeting to explain this as i am sure most opticians are not aware of these things that happen on a national level. 
that is one of the reasons you attend national or leadership and then when you do attend ask these questions. 
Idea: list these questions you have and submit them to get answers, with the internet you can e-mail oaa@oaa.org and get these answers.

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## MVEYES

You said:



> represented on national committees because of the oaa.


What national committees are we represented on because of OAA? ABO is a separate entity from OAA . ANSI is a separate entity from OAA. Medicare reimbursement doesn't affect 99% of the opticians in the US. It affects businesses mainly Optometry and Ophthalmology but; Opticians? We need representation that focuses on issues like licensure in individual states and formal education for our proffession. Not name droppers. I am not saying we should not have a National Association, I am saying that those who have led that Association have not focused on the current needs of all in our proffession. If you are an Optician who owns your own business then Medicare and other insurance  issues are important but 98% of the Opticians in the US don't own their own business. That leaves an organization run by Opticians who own their own business and chain stores  looking out for their individual interests with all the State member associations seeing little benefit. Focus on the goals of the whole not the few.



 :Eek:  Jerry

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## ts

I give up, 
it is obvious that you are looking for excuesses to pull your state out of oaa so just go and do it, with this last statement you are not looking at the big picture but a small 13" picture. Medicare does effect the optician who works for someone else due to the income that is generated by the eyeware payment. if you do not feel that is important to be on the board that determines the abo exam then why are you pushing education. If there was no OAa then you would not have representation on that board. 
Please look at the big picture instead of just your small little circle and please listen to the good and the bad from people who have been there not just from those who have not .
this is getting depressing.  state associations and OAA need positive people who desire to move forward not people. who spend time deweling on the past

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## MVEYES

No one said (including myself that there should not be an OAA). You need to reread that post and look at what I was getting at. As mentioned earlier OAA should be a child of State societies and not a clique of individuals who feel that they should not answer to their 'parent'. There has been no communication between OAA and our state society for years. It's time to change that, no more excuses. 

You might ask 'how does this remind you of Enron?' . My answer is that the executives of that company  spoke of accomplishments and financial solubility to the American public. The end results was a loss of money by many investors. OAA is a function of State Associations not the reverse. You still don't account for money that has been sent in to OAA. As a division member in Ohio you demand that of the state association. Likewise, as a state association we demand an accounting of the money we send to national. Don't give up. Dialogue is important in working out issues.



 :cheers: Jerry

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## Homer

I have to side a little more with "ts" on your recent exchanges.
Without OAA there would not be representation for opticianry on these boards and perhaps some others not mentioned.   I happen to think this is quite important and a good benefit of supporting OAA.

However, every honest person is interested in two things:  How the money is spent and honest information from the leadership.

It would appear that in the past everyone took for granted that lofty things were being done with them money but perhaps there was some mis-management.   Funny thing is that even some of the officers of recent years were not able to get adaquate financial information - let alone the rest of the BOD.

It also would appear that too much power was given to the executive committee where too few people made too many decision that should have been openly discussed and reviewed by the whole BOD.

Two things we can do:  1) Withdraw and let OAA die in a flury of accusations and finger-pointing by all the unhappy members which will only lead to histerical laughter by the other two O's, the national chains and anybody else who we hoped to take us seriously (like universities).

or  2) Get in there and make sure this does no happen again!  Add your ideas to the pot and be willing to compromise.   And understand that the decisions that brought us to today may not have been as much due to bad people,  as to the failure on many persons parts to require solid information at high levels and the unwillingness to realize that the perameters of opticianry have changed drasticly in the last 10years.   

Change the By-laws.  Change the voting system.  Change the dues structure.  Require accountability.  But don't just walk away and let the child die and laugh with all the others.  This will not pormote an improved quality of life of the 98% of opticianry that you claim to be concerned about.

I made some very bad decision as a young man.    My children made some very bad decisions.  Very costly decisions.  It hurt!
They are still my children.  Today I am very proud of them.

Jerry, the 98%,  plus us lowely 2%ers,  all need you!

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## MVEYES

I'm not willing to give up on OAA. I think that shock treatment and honesty is critical in shaking up the structure to turn around and give us honest accounting and understand that they are not to represent a minority but the majority of Opticians. They have great potential and with the latest leadership conference that could be a reality. I will support OAA as long as OAA supports all Opticianry!





:cheers: Jerry

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## Joann Raytar

> _Originally posted by Homer_ 
> *Two things we can do:  1) Withdraw and let OAA die in a flury of accusations and finger-pointing by all the unhappy members which will only lead to histerical laughter by the other two O's, the national chains and anybody else who we hoped to take us seriously (like universities).*


In the past there always appears to be a number of folks who are waiting for this to happen.  This is the worst thing that can happen to Opticianry.  We need a strong national voice.  If the NAO is concentrating on education, then the OAA must be that voice.




> *or  2) Get in there and make sure this does no happen again!  Add your ideas to the pot and be willing to compromise.   And understand that the decisions that brought us to today may not have been as much due to bad people,  as to the failure on many persons parts to require solid information at high levels and the unwillingness to realize that the perameters of opticianry have changed drasticly in the last 10years.*


This is definitely what must happen.  My only reservation regarding the OAA is I always seem to come away from discussions about the organization feeling a bit empty.  I understand that joining the OAA would hopefully allow for more exchange of information but I believe folks need to know about an organization before they join.  Even the US Army gives more reasons why Uncle Sam wants us.  That is exactly what the OAA needs to do, recruit members, and the only way they are going to do that is by *talking* themselves up.

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## ts

and the us goverment spent billions of dollars building a tank, did you get dollar for dollar return on that tank. i think not, did you move out of the U.S., I think not. Why not try and be a part of the solution, not just pay dollars but get involved. go to atlanta and offer your services they sure need people to help. If you want to be critical fine, but do it from near not from afar. 
example is the ct. issue, it is very touchy and could have turned ugly at leadership but it did not because Skip conducted himself in a very professional manner and I respect him for that. Did it get resolved at leadership ? I do not know, but it is one situtation i hope does get resolved positivley. 
Are they arguments at state board meetings? yes, but those people are involved up close and there should be differences as that is how things get changed. 
Argue at closed meetings but come out with one voice and move for change and that is what i hope happened at leadership. Now for change at convention, there will be many by-laww changes proposed and i hope state leaders take advantage of nominating people for postions on the board and nominating committee.

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## Joann Raytar

> and the us goverment spent billions of dollars building a tank, did you get dollar for dollar return on that tank. i think not, did you move out of the U.S., I think not.


No, but I knew they spent billions of dollars on a tank and many other things.  Do I know where every dollar in our government's possesion goes?  No, I don't know that either.

You are correct about the need for involvement; I cannot argue with you there.  TS, I am sorry if I sound over critical.  I think the OAA is necessary and needs our support.  However, I also think that the OAA needs to work on communicating with more folks to bolster membership.  You are doing it and so are Homer and Bev; why can't other OAA members?

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## Homer

What would you like to hear that would make you feel better about OAA?   Do you want a newsletter that nobody reads?  Do you want someone from OAA to call you personally each month?  Do you want a financial statement?   What?

Yes, "ts" and Bev, Judy and some others have promoted OAA and have made various arguments - some good some not so good.

It would seem most ideal if someone like yourself were in contact with a state society which was a supporting member of OAA.   This would put a face on OAA - since, as I have said before - OAA is a creation of the state societies, it is not like a government organization which we can volunteer to join and then they tell us how to walk, talk and think.

Jo, I can deal with critical arguments but not  "an empty feeling". You are going to have to give us a hint here.    Actually, I am not picking on you personally because I think there are many out there who have that same kind of empty feeling and I honestly do not know how to address it.    That is why I suggest that you need to have some good conversations with your state society members / leaders.

Thank you for your honesty and the continued conversation!

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## MVEYES

I am a trustee of our state society. We strongly support OAA through dues and convention delegates. We don't get correspondense regularly. We don't get a chance to see what the OAA balance sheet looks like. We get information from Tom occasionally but it is sketchy. We do feel like we are  in a blind situation and have been supporting OAA in this blind state. Shouldn't a state association who has stuck with OAA through thick and thin be given the courtesy of having the officers and board of directors send communication to our executive director? Lack of dialogue breeds distrust. Either the President or Secretary/Treasurer of OAA is not doing their job. They must have personnel working for them. Why isn't there communication? I agree everyone needs to be more strongly involved in their state societies and likewise state societies need to know what their 'child' is up to (OAA). When the parent dissociates from the child (New York and Florida) they probably feel so frustrated with this lack of communication that they will let the child exist on their own. The child can't exist on its own. My impression as I have stated all along is that the individuals who run OAA ( you note I said individuals) don't want to give up that dynasty and we have ended up where we are today.  The answer to this turning point will be at the convention and if the OAA officers and board members are ready to take instruction from their parents (the state societies). We can bring Florida and New York back if we show those states that we mean business and there will be change. I am not advocating getting rid of OAA, I am advocating a total reorganizing of the way it is run now.



 :cheers: Jerry

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## Homer

While there have been some individual leaders  (say officers) of OAA who have held tightly to power and have tried to make OAA into their own image, there are some other problems.

All of the BOD are and have been heavily involved in managing their own companies or otherwise gainfuly employed.   This does not allow for much time to write, call or visit the state societies or individual members.   That is why they have always relied heavily on and Executive Director.   Needless to say,  that position has not been stable nor well filled in the last few years.  Regardless of the ability or desire of some of the BOD, consistant communication and accurate records were not always produced due to a "that didn't happen on my watch" mentality.   The chainging of directors, fall-out with ABO and the moving of a facility all had devastating effects.

It should be known that even the Treasurer had trouble getting accurate numbers and a kind of "Enron" bookkeeping somewhere along the way made even the numbers received unreliable.  

So, OK.   We all agree that we have had a bad combination of leaders and directors and accounting and unwillingness to face the truth let alone tell anyone else.

I believe we have a new BOD in place that is very realistic and honest.   Curt Duffy offered the "state of OAA" address at the recent Leadership conference, including a financial print-out for any state leader to see.   Tom should be able to get that for you.   However,  even if you got it and pointed out all of the mistakes in judgement,  where would that get us?   Only to today!

So, its a crappy world ...  and our job is to clean it up not to tell everyone how much they are crapping.  

Those of us who are trying to clean it up need all of the help we can get.   We need people to give positive, constructive help.  We are attempting to completely revamp the By-laws in order to keep this from happening again.  Get an update from Tom on the proposed changes.  We want all levels of opticianry to not only be represented but to have a direct & representative hand in decision making.

Now, can we please stop whining and complaining about water that has pass the bridge and prepare for the future.   Maybe you should throw your hat into the ring, Jerry, for a new BOD position.

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## Joann Raytar

Homer,

Wow!  You said a mind-full in that last post.  You covered the "What" earlier on when you explained that the OAA is not the mother hen in this picture and now you just covered the "Why's." 

That explains why there aren't alot of answers.  It sounds like the OAA is in the midst of rebuilding.  Yes, the OAA is going to need a ton of help if it is going to restructure on those levels.

What is the biggest obstacle the OAA is facing right now?

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## ts

Jerry,
tell us, have you contacted Florida or New York and talked to them about comming back into OAA? i doubt it. Have you talked to anyone who has had contact with those state leaders? it sounds not. Have you talked to anyone who was at leadership other than someone  who was there for just one of the two days.
You have stated that you want total reorganization of the way OAA is run. Here is your chance Tell us your ideas , how would you go about reorganizing  it and how would you run it. 
Your exective director has been e-mailed of all the by-law changes that are being worked on to be presented at the atlanta convention.
 You sound like someone who is looking in from the outside and name many problems but does not offer up any answers. problems in any organization are easy to find and people who can see the problems are easy to find. what OAA needs and even your state needs are people who can help work on solving those problems. you get plently of coraspondence regularly as your exective director is on the state society e-mail list. Ask anyone on this page who is on this list if they get enough if not more than they want in coraspondence. Your President is on this list and you can ask him if he gets plently of coraspondence about what is going on at OAA. 
Your Exct dir was forwarded the 24 points that was worked on at leadership  and i believe forwarded on to you. 
The people on the state leadership list have gotten a lot more communication about what is going on in oaa than the members of your state have gotten about what is going on in your state. Yes you have a 4 times a year newsletter and it is the best out there but that is 4 times a year. 
At leadership it was pointed out that in Florida the exective dir. has a instant fax list of 800 names and an e-mail list that is almost as big and he communicates though this 2 to 3 times a month. Were you told about this in your conversations about what happened at leadership? 
It is time to quit this compaling about OAA and move on, when you go to a leadership meeting or convention and see for yourself what is going on then you can complain. At your next board meeting ask your exective director for any e-mail coraspondence from the oaa e-mail list. i think you will be supprised. 
The mass e-mails your are getting from your exective director concerning the problems in Florida and Tenn. and any other oaa situtation came from OAA to his office first then went out to you.
Listen to homer he was at convention in anaheim and leadership he will tell you if there are changes.

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## Joann Raytar

Homer and TS:

How many of the licensed states are OAA members?

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## MVEYES

You have some good points. Don't be offended if I bring up issues that point out past discretions about OAA. The dialogue that I bring to this group of Opticians is to not forget what has happened and to support positive turns toward restructuring. Tom, maybe you or someone else on this board can explain New York and Florida's reasons for leaving OAA. If the information I received at our state board meeting is incorrect enlighten us on that issue. By the way does Tom King tell you all of the correspondences he gets? I will ask him. If he is not reporting all correspondences I apologize for the 'lack of correspondence statement' but if he says he hasn't then you can tell this group who is sending out those messages you claim come to our state office. You don't attend all the state board meetings as I didn't have a chance to attend leadership conference. I will wait for a report from all of you (yes I have received the proposed changes from Tom King) from our state who attended the conference. 

This rhetoric achieved a good purpose. It has brought out the issues that control our national association. Hopefully it will draw more people into the fight to make OAA better and stronger. Next convetion will tell all.



 :cheers: Jerry

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## Homer

Don't have that info in my hands but will shortly and will post it.

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## MVEYES

I have to take my hat off to Tom Hicks. He has been instrumental in trying to move OAA back into a solid position by organizing a leadership conference that calls for some drastic changes. 

If I ask for facts about the organization I do touch some raw nerves. Stand out from the situation and look at it as if you weren't privileged to receive the information about the activities of the organization that controlled your professional life. 

Tom, you complain about Tom King in the same manner I complain about OAA. You say he doesn't present us with communication from the national organization. I have never known of any incident that he hasn't shared communication with the board of directors. He also represents us on the Ohio eyecare coalition and in our SOS committee meetings with ODH and gives us information about these important meetings. You need to fight the small battles at home and when we are victors move out and fight the battles that each state association is waging. OAA should be that general. That is where I come from and I hope that you understand and respect that viewpoint.



 :cheers: Jerry

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