# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  Initial Eyewear Sale Language !Help!

## jakef

:Help:  The owner/optometrist just came to me pretty upset after seeing a behavior that we have been trying to break in our office. The O.D.'s spend a lot of time and energy in the lanes informing the patient about what their eyewear needs are. They call in an optician, tell the optician what the care plan is going to be i.e. "Mr. Smith is going to need a new pair of glasses, and I'd like him to have a high quality A/R". The optician walks out of the lane with the patient and says "would you like to look at glasses?" It seems like that's the only phrase the staff feels comfortable uttering out :Mad: . So, since we are ASSUMING that the patient would like to look at  glasses, we are going to coach the staff on things to say. If it's me, I'm defaulting to open ended questions about frame materials and designs, or questions about how the eyewear might be used to get the patient engaged. IF the staff member is still lacking in confidence, is there any easy phrase or "elevator pitch" that anyone is using to engage with a patient after the handoff? I'd love to hear everyone's opinion. Thanks!

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## MikeAurelius

"Let's look at some frames and see what we can find that will give you the perfect fit for your new prescription."

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## MikeAurelius

One thing I'd be cautious about though is the hard sell, under the FTC rulings, you cannot force the patient to purchase eyewear at an attached dispensary. I personally think the practice might be stretching a bit by having an optician come into the exam lane and take the patient into the dispensary.

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## jakef

Noted. I think we've been so non-aggressive with our presentation in the office that we haven't had to concern ourselves with FTC regulations yet, but behavioral changes in the staff may bring that topic up quite a bit more.

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## Optician1960

Optician coming into the lane makes perfect sense. Would suggest the Dr give a reason or 3 for why AR, Polarized, computer wear... is necessary and this could start your conversation. Makes no sense for the optician to ask the same questions to find out "why" the need s there...

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## rbaker

When should the refractionist hand the patient his Rx, before or after the sales pitch.

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## huskypaul

If the patient is coming to your clinic, it is by their choice. I think we can rule out the FTC's involvement, unless you are withholding their prescription and/or blocking their egress. Personally, I like to begin the conversation with, how many pairs of glasses are you interested in and how many prescriptions will we be filling today. No hard sell, just some basic questions to get the patient thinking about multiple pairs. I can get them a better deal on their lenses, thus saving them some money.

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## Optician1960

@RBaker: Not sure there is a sales pitch in the scenario being proposed. Suggest this is truly understanding the patients visual needs and wants based on Rx and lifestyle (work, hobby, sports and other). The patient has the ability to agree that their visual needs matched to our 1 or multiple pair of eye wear and do they what to purchase or not. I find it much more offensive to not explain to a patient how we can help them in the different aspects of their life rather than see this as a sales pitch. There are way to many stories of patients who found a new appreciation for their work, hobby... once they had a pair of eye wear that they could wear more specific to this need vs the 1 pair that does not meet all needs...

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## huskypaul

Hello _____, my name is______, I am here to aid you with any questions that you may have concerning your prescription, if you would like to take a seat we can discuss several frame/lens options that can be made available to you that may better serve any visual needs or special requirements that you would like to address.

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## opty4062

> "Let's look at some frames and see what we can find that will give you the perfect fit for your new prescription."


I use something like this. I also sometimes resort to "Oh I was hoping to be the one get to help you try on some frames because when I saw you I instantly thought of this one..."

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## jonadonis

In my shop the Doc hands me the folder and the script because he is done with it and is going after the next patient. I first need to throw the new script on the copier and while I do, I look at the patient and introduce myself as the optician.  Then I look at the script and start talking lens technology with the patient. I want the patient to know which lens, which material and why, whether he buys from me or not.  If there are options that are not optically sensible, I say so.  The patient will interrupt and tell me what they want to do.  I quote them list price and their price.  Never do I TRY TO SELL THEM SOMETHING. The customers are human beings that have to live with their visual limitations and realities.  I am a human being that is licensed in the knowledge of eyeglasses and contact lenses.  I read the new eyeglass script and, by interpretation, tell the patient what it says. Then I inform the patient about which lens technologies best serve his needs.  Effectively, I represent the entire OLA and all the contact lens industry products. I will gladly educate the customer for free, relevant to their needs and sensitive to their budget.  Then I do a lot of listening.

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## jonadonis

Optician1960 nailed it!

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## Johns

We've gone over this scenario several times, but perhaps it bears repeating for those new to the board.

Although we no longer work in the same office, Fezz, Optical 24/7 and I worked great as a team.  

1. I would greet the patient, and offer to hang up their coat.  I would then hand the coat/jacket to Fezz to hang up.  While the pt. was in the exam, Fezz would go through the jacket looking for keys. Often he would also find a wallet.  If he found a wallet, he would call the lab and use the patients credit card to pay off the past due bill.

2. Fezz would  then hand the keys to Optical 24/7, who would drive the patient's car to the hardware store to copy all his keys. He would then return to the office and replace the keys in the jacket.

3. When the exam was over, the doctor would drop kick, I mean hand off, the patient to us.  There are many sales techniques that can be used, and since opticians are really nothing but sales people anyway, we found it was best to not beat around the bush, and just give the patient what they needed, whether they wanted it or not. 

4. We had the highest sales in our region, and won the sales bonus trip to Gary Indiana four years in a row, utilizing the following technique:  I would write up the order while I was telling the patient what they wanted. Often, if they did not understand, Optical 24/7 would put them in a choke hold, while Fezz would bend their arm behind their back.  Often, after the "presentation" patients would often say, "Wow! Nobody ever explained it like THAT before!" 
5. After the patient would leave, we'd go through the Lion's Club donation box, and pull the frame and lenses for the patient.  Fezz would clean them up, while Optical 24/7 would go through the cases at the bottom of the bin.  Yes, it was a lot of work, but our patients were worth it.

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## Java99

And which high dollar consulting group do you work for now?




> We've gone over this scenario several times, but perhaps it bears repeating for those new to the board.
> 
> Although we no longer work in the same office, Fezz, Optical 24/7 and I worked great as a team.  
> 
> 1. I would greet the patient, and offer to hang up their coat.  I would then hand the coat/jacket to Fezz to hang up.  While the pt. was in the exam, Fezz would go through the jacket looking for keys. Often he would also find a wallet.  If he found a wallet, he would call the lab and use the patients credit card to pay off the past due bill.
> 
> 2. Fezz would  then hand the keys to Optical 24/7, who would drive the patient's car to the hardware store to copy all his keys. He would then return to the office and replace the keys in the jacket.
> 
> 3. When the exam was over, the doctor would drop kick, I mean hand off, the patient to us.  There are many sales techniques that can be used, and since opticians are really nothing but sales people anyway, we found it was best to not beat around the bush, and just give the patient what they needed, whether they wanted it or not. 
> ...

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## Johns

> And which high dollar consulting group do you work for now?


FezzJohns Inc!  (Of course!)

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## huskypaul

OK, jakef hands down, Johns and company have the non aggressive soft sales technique down. I only wished that I had the vision and business sense to come up with this approach first. 
Envious in Seattle

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## EyeCare Rich

> FezzJohns Inc!  (Of course!)


What, Optical 24/7 doesn't get recognition for his name and hard work (ie the choke hold).  What a rip off.  I'd sue if I were Optical 24/7!  Gotta be billions to be made off that FezzJohns Inc! corporation, after all they are about to take over Luxottica and Essilor aren't they?

Back on topic.  I think you just need to start a lifestyle conversation with the patient, not a sales pitch, just a simple conversation, make a friend/patient for life!  That will lead you to great opportunities for all involved.

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## optical24/7

Hummm......FezzJohns24/7 Inc. does have a nice ring to it......

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## Johns

> Back on topic.  I think you just need to start a lifestyle conversation with the patient, *not a sales pitch*, just a simple conversation, make a friend/patient for life!


Right on Rich!

Believe it or not, my long winded post DID have a point.  The point was that MOST of us are NOT sales people, and it's not about a pitch, a delivery, a hand-off, a freaking capture!!  It's about educating the consumer in the way that comes most naturally for you, and which gets your message out. 

 I am so sick of hearing about sales pitches that I could choke someone!  And we wonder why the public don't see us as professionals?

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## Johns

> What, Optical 24/7 doesn't get recognition for his name and hard work (ie the choke hold).  What a rip off.  I'd sue if I were Optical 24/7!  Gotta be billions to be made off that FezzJohns Inc! corporation, after all they are about to take over Luxottica and Essilor aren't they?


Our billions have been made. Optical24/7 knows what his job is, and he does a great job of it. Among other titles he holds, he's also our real estate procurement agent. Last year (was it) in Vegas, we asked him to go ahead and save us a seat at the bar.  When we got there, we were met at the door by some big dude that said, "Gentlemen, your party is waiting.  This way please..."  Optical24/7 didn't reserve us a seat at the bar...her reserved us the whole bar! True story! Personal barmaids, our own pool table...and all right on the strip. Yes,  Optical24/7 is definitely the man!

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## fjpod

All this sales strategy talk...somehow it bothers me.  Sure, I'm in business too, and I have to make a buck, and pay the staaff, but leading or mis-leading the patient simply for improving profits is in nobody's best interest.  If you need a "strategy" to get your patients to consider purchasing eyewear at your office, then you are doing something wrong.   Make believe every patient is your mother or father.

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## Jason H

I think its a little creepy and railroad-ey (new word- my invention) to have a doctor deliver a sales pitch. I know it's how the big practices think the future is going, but I couldn't sleep at night feeling that ingenuine. If I couldn't treat people in my little shop like actual people I'd put the closed sign in the window and walk away today. You're not a salesperson - someone came to you for help. Help them and stop worrying about "capturing". Just one opinion.

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## tx11

I have only worked at one office where the dispensary wasn't in plain sight. It should be obvious to patients that eyewear is ALSO sold at the location and not just eye health exams performed. Surely people don't think all those frames are for decoration. I suggest that a simple" May I discuss your eyewear options with you?" would suffice. They came to the doctor for an exam IF they want to purchase eyewear there too they will let you know. Just be polite, professional and available.

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## tx11

> All this sales strategy talk...somehow it bothers me.  Sure, I'm in business too, and I have to make a buck, and pay the staaff, but leading or mis-leading the patient simply for improving profits is in nobody's best interest.  If you need a "strategy" to get your patients to consider purchasing eyewear at your office, then you are doing something wrong.   Make believe every patient is your mother or father.


+100

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## tx11

Hahahahahahahah!!!! :Giggle:  Very FUNNY JOHNS.... Its Saturday Morning Optical Smackdown!!!

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## Johns

> All this sales strategy talk...somehow it bothers me.  Sure, I'm in business too, and I have to make a buck, and pay the staaff, but leading or mis-leading the patient simply for improving profits is in nobody's best interest.  If you need a "strategy" to get your patients to consider purchasing eyewear at your office, then you are doing something wrong.   Make believe every patient is your mother or father.


I agree totally!

(The make believe parent thing might be an issue though; I'd be asking them all for a "small loan to get me through till payday", and sending them all out the door with a basket of dirty laundry!)

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## drk

I have a pretty natural way to do it.

As I'm wrapping up the visit, I have to route the patient.  Sometimes to the optical, sometimes to the front desk.

(If I don't already know) I ask: "_Do you want to look at  glasses today?"_  If they say so, I say: "_Let me take you to Willhemina, our optician.  She can help you."
_
If I have a specific optical tx plan recommendation for a patient, I'll tell them about it during the case presentation at the end of the exam.  I'll also let Herr Villy know what I'm thinking, and I don't hesitate to discuss it in front of the patient who tends to be standing next to me.  Kinda makes for a good show.

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## CCGREEN

> .......... Just be polite, professional and available.


Nailed it! Only two things I would add to it is dont be shy and dont come across as "stuffy".

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## Optician1960

@fjpod: I used to tell our folks to treat every patient like they were their parents, and if they didn’t care for their parents, then to act like they were mine whom I love. I might suggest to you, and I do not want this to “bother” you, but this was a strategy that we utilized to help all of our associates recognize how high the bar was for treating patients with respect.

@JasonH: I will agree that having the Dr do a sales pitch is creepy. At the same time, having a Dr understand how the patient could live better with a specific 1st, 2nd or 3rd pair and then not educate the patient on how eye wear could/will help them see better according to their lifestyle is just plain wrong. When I take family members to Drs, I expect that the Dr will understand the health issue, understand the patient and make suggestions for long term health. Some suggestions may be no cost (lifestyle), and others may have a cost to them. When we trust the Dr, we see that as prescribing/doctoring and not selling… Then we make a decision to move forward with the prescribed plan or not, but it is now an educated decision.

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## Jason H

1960, I agree completely - but my experience with OD's reccomending from the chair has been less than altruistic. Educate- absolutely. PT Barnum with an opthalmascope - no thanks. Also, isn't it an optician's job to match product with need? I wouldn't be comfortable doing my OD's job, why would he presume to be as "helpful" with mine?

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## Optician1960

JH: Thanks for the conversation. I appreciate your PT Barnum comment because we both despise these types of folks. No OD and/or optician who is a PTB and will not change their behaviors will be associated with me either. So simply stay with the education piece of the exam and patient interaction. Education can and I believe should include information on how they can see better with a new Rx and also how they can see better with a design or lens treatment that they may not be used to. Example: If you have a school bus driver who does not have a pair of polarized lenses (or sun at all) for driving in the bright sun and they have kids around their vehicle constantly, I would have a difficult time with an OD and/or optician who did not discuss the safety attributes of a quality sun pair with this patient. Your thoughts?

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## MakeOptics

> The owner/optometrist just came to me pretty upset after seeing a behavior that we have been trying to break in our office. The O.D.'s spend a lot of time and energy in the lanes informing the patient about what their eyewear needs are. They call in an optician, tell the optician what the care plan is going to be i.e. "Mr. Smith is going to need a new pair of glasses, and I'd like him to have a high quality A/R". The optician walks out of the lane with the patient and says "would you like to look at glasses?" It seems like that's the only phrase the staff feels comfortable uttering out. So, since we are ASSUMING that the patient would like to look at  glasses, we are going to coach the staff on things to say. If it's me, I'm defaulting to open ended questions about frame materials and designs, or questions about how the eyewear might be used to get the patient engaged. IF the staff member is still lacking in confidence, is there any easy phrase or "elevator pitch" that anyone is using to engage with a patient after the handoff? I'd love to hear everyone's opinion. Thanks!


Jake,

Take a look at the Rx and assume they are getting a frame and assume they don't have a clue which frame is going to work with their Rx.  (assume they don't have a clue and need a professional salesperson)

My conversations usually go like this:  "Hi Mrs. Jones my name is ***** I'm going to help you with your prescription today, based on the script here are three options that would work best for a myope|hyperope|presbyope, and here are three types of frames we are going to avoid.  Style wise I would love to see some color on you, your skin complexion is warm|cool and you are bold|conservative so I would choose a contrasting|complementing color/s to suit.  Your facial symmetry indicates we go with a more round|square shape and based on your features we can balance your look with this style."

Before they know it the seats been pulled out and we are discussing lenses, I didn't sell you a frame I sold you the frame.  My promise to every client I will compliment you on your look every time I see you in office, grocery store, gas station, etc.  I'll even tell you that's my intention, after all that's why I helped you pick them out to make sure they looked good enough to say I sold them to you.  It should be easy from there.

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## Optician1960

Jake:
Where did you or the Dr find out when, why, where or how the patient will use the eye glasses that you have "sold" them? We both agree that patients should look good in their frames, but those "lenses" play an important role also... If the Doc is only handing you an Rx and not sharing some form of reference of the how, where and why, then they might be falling short of helping that patient truly see as well as they can with the new Rx during their busy days...

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## cocoisland58

Our doctor recommends and I do the rest. Sales are based on recommendations but I deviate if I think it would suit the patient. I chit chat before and after but during the sale it's all about product education. I also like to recommend frames based on Rx and lens considerations so I will take my little tray and pick several even if the patient is also browsing. But before education and frames and chit chat it's usually a cheerful "Mr. Smith? Come right on over here and have a seat with me". We like to keep it friendly, it's a small town but it's also a million dollar store so we must be doing something right.

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## Jason H

1960, I knew we were on the same page. Yes, there is a responsibility to match product and educate for need - this is what real opticians do. Mabye even OD's as well. If the two dovetail- now you really have something. Good luck Warbley Parker. The overkill is the dicey part. I've worked for OD's who reccomended two pairs of glasses, RX sun's, a trip to Bermuda and a Piper Cub carte blanche to every poor soul who crossed their threshold. These thinly-veiled sales pitches I came to despise. The line is blurry between sometimes but it's also how you can distinguish yourself not only from the internet and Wal-mart, but also from the "legitimate" practices that would take advantage of people who put absolute faith in a carnival barker. If this profession is to overcome it's current challenges I believe this is the way.

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## Eyedentity3

Here it is all about being polite, professional and fun. Most people relate going to the doctor as a dull experience, but if you can get a person involved in the conversations and laughing not only will they leave happy, but will be a patient for life. Our goal is to get a person interested in their vision and asking questions. We want people to see their eyewear as a way to show their "Eyedentity" to the world. If you have a passion for opticianry patients will see that and gravitate back to for all optical questions.

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## MakeOptics

> Here it is all about being polite, professional and fun. Most people relate going to the doctor as a dull experience, but if you can get a person involved in the conversations and laughing not only will they leave happy, but will be a patient for life. Our goal is to get a person interested in their vision and asking questions. We want people to see their eyewear as a way to show their "Eyedentity" to the world. If you have a passion for opticianry patients will see that and gravitate back to for all optical questions.


Fantastic philosophy, I love it.

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## Optician1960

> Here it is all about being polite, professional and fun. Most people relate going to the doctor as a dull experience, but if you can get a person involved in the conversations and laughing not only will they leave happy, but will be a patient for life. Our goal is to get a person interested in their vision and asking questions. We want people to see their eyewear as a way to show their "Eyedentity" to the world. If you have a passion for opticianry patients will see that and gravitate back to for all optical questions.



Ed3: I like it...

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## drk

Well, I don't.  Eye exams are exhilarating for patients.  Never boring.  I give them several options OTHER THAN "one or two".  I may say "three or "four".  Some days "this one, or this one".   It's rarely the same experience for the patient.  What's more, I can have them read "T-Z-V-E-C-L" or even read it--(wait for it)--BACKWARDS: L-C-E-V-Z-T!  Sometimes, I'll puff their right eye first.  Other times, the left eye.  Same with the blinding light of the ophthalmoscope_..."Hey, it was a white light last time!  Now it's blue-green!  What will you do next, doc!?"_

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## Eyedentity3

> Well, I don't.  Eye exams are exhilarating for patients.  Never boring.  I give them several options OTHER THAN "one or two".  I may say "three or "four".  Some days "this one, or this one".   It's rarely the same experience for the patient.  What's more, I can have them read "T-Z-V-E-C-L" or even read it--(wait for it)--BACKWARDS: L-C-E-V-Z-T!  Sometimes, I'll puff their right eye first.  Other times, the left eye.  Same with the blinding light of the ophthalmoscope_..."Hey, it was a white light last time!  Now it's blue-green!  What will you do next, doc!?"_


On the edge of my seat too see what you come up with next Doc!

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## Jason H

My only hope is that you're only half kidding. Make your patients remember you and you need never fear coastal, wal-mart, china, whatever is under your bed or zombie unicorns with rabies. A computer doesn't smile - and in costco it is simply forbidden. Still wondering how you can compete?......

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## Diane

> The owner/optometrist just came to me pretty upset after seeing a behavior that we have been trying to break in our office. The O.D.'s spend a lot of time and energy in the lanes informing the patient about what their eyewear needs are. They call in an optician, tell the optician what the care plan is going to be i.e. "Mr. Smith is going to need a new pair of glasses, and I'd like him to have a high quality A/R". The optician walks out of the lane with the patient and says "would you like to look at glasses?" It seems like that's the only phrase the staff feels comfortable uttering out. So, since we are ASSUMING that the patient would like to look at  glasses, we are going to coach the staff on things to say. If it's me, I'm defaulting to open ended questions about frame materials and designs, or questions about how the eyewear might be used to get the patient engaged. IF the staff member is still lacking in confidence, is there any easy phrase or "elevator pitch" that anyone is using to engage with a patient after the handoff? I'd love to hear everyone's opinion. Thanks!


The key word here is OPTICIAN.  If the person trying to take care of the patient is not trying to find out their visual and lifestyle needs, they are only an order taker, not an Optician.  I realize that Texas has no regulations for calling someone an Optician, but there is a vast difference.  Sorry, but I believe that here the Doctor is trying to do what is best for the patient, and it needs to be followed up with a GOOD Optician.  There is no issue about FTC Eyeglass Rx Rule, if it is handled correctly.  

Diane

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## jakef

I do appreciate all the viewpoints shared. However, I disagree with anyone who is against selling eyewear. Education and information is important, and it is always free to any patient or customer who walks into my office, but this is also a _fashion_ industry. We "buy" glasses to "sell" them at a profit that justifies employing both our ABO/NCLE certified and non-cert Opticians. (yes we have both). Keep in mind that there are a lot of people who WANT to be sold to. That's why we have name brands on eyewear, and can explain features and benefits of lenses/frame combinations. We aren't trying to be pushy, we are simply trying to do what is best for the patient and the business at the same time. I personally think that educating is really selling; until you over-estimate the amount of information the patient wants, and forget to close your "education".

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## jakef

Thank you by the way for the examples many of you have provided. This gives me an excellent meeting topic for next Monday.

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## jakef

> Jake:
> Where did you or the Dr find out when, why, where or how the patient will use the eye glasses that you have "sold" them? We both agree that patients should look good in their frames, but those "lenses" play an important role also... If the Doc is only handing you an Rx and not sharing some form of reference of the how, where and why, then they might be falling short of helping that patient truly see as well as they can with the new Rx during their busy days...


The Dr. will page in an optician for the final education and optical treatment plan. They will all 3 leave the room about the same time, and the doctor goes to his next patient while the optician and patient walk to the disp/front desk area. The staff seems uncomfortable at that stage for some reason, so I'm trying to give them conversation directions that don't undue the Dr's work and education with the patient. I really don't think its a lack of education from the Dr, but I'll try to watch closer to make sure that portion of the exam isn't being missed.

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## opty4062

Just going from your OP and your last reply, it sounds like a simple problem that could be solved with a script. "Please follow me and we can discuss the frames and lenses that work best with your needs." Bam. Simple. 
I am curious, you say the doc pages an optician for the hand-off, so to speak. Then you say the staff, meaning opticians, are uncomfortable taking responsibility for patient care from the doctor. I am sorry if this sounds like I am provoking you, but I have to ask, how does one get to the point of being an optician on staff and not be comfortable with patient care/sales?

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