# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  former Warby Parker optician- ask me anything

## ATXOptician

Hey! New here and I've been browsing for about a week, enjoying the site so far. Seems you all aren't Warby fans- not that I blame you! I was there for about 3 years, started as part-time sales but became an Optician and member of the management team before leaving earlier this summer (I'm now at an independent eyeglasses provider and loving it, for the record).

I didn't sign an NDA so if you want the dirt.... ask me anything and I'll do my best to answer!

----------


## bta89

What type of progressives/AR are they using over there. I heard that they were an based off Essilor products. I'm not wanting "dirt" per say. Just interested in which lens they use in case I have to trouble shoot some glasses.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *former Warby Parker optician- ask me anything*
> *Hey! New here and I've been browsing for about a week, enjoying the site so far. Seems you all aren't Warby fans- not that I blame you! I was there for about 3 years, started as part-time sales but became an Optician and member of the management team before leaving earlier this summer (I'm now at an independent eyeglasses provider and loving it, for the record).
> 
> I didn't sign an NDA so if you want the dirt.... ask me anything and I'll do my best to answer!*




Welcome to optiBoard and I hope you will enjoy it......................................... 

I don't think anybody wants to know the dirt on optiBoard. However if we could learn that or why WP has the power to divert large masses of the public to purchase their glasses from them instead the conventional optometrist or optician that has been around for a hundred years would already be a step forward.

As you are in a now position to see the actual difference between the conventional established optical retailer, versus the new wave online opticals, their quality of products as well as their services, you should be able to make interesting comments on it.

----------


## lensmanmd

Chris,
I’ll give you a plus one on this.  Finally, a thread that I am eager to subscribe to.

----------


## lensmanmd

Will,
My one big ask is why did you decide to leave WP?   Please don’t generalize and give canned answers.  Your honesty will provide many of us with crucial insights.  
Also, know that WP silently monitors this forum, so you can always use the PM functions.

----------


## Quig

Welcome to the forum. I'm newish here too.

I think you'll find that there is a member of this forum who posts often and is absolutely obsessed with WP and Alibaba, and the internet, and "Oh, look, the sky is falling!!!!!"... While he is certainly entitled to his opinion, I can say there are others of us who don't mind market competition and don't hold a grudge against WP for being WP. 

Congrats on your transition from Corporate America to an independent retailer. I'm glad to hear, after working in both environments, you're happy working for an independent.

----------


## drk

Is Schumer on the take?

----------


## Don Gilman

> Is Schumer on the take?


Cynic

----------


## ATXOptician

> What type of progressives/AR are they using over there. I heard that they were an based off Essilor products. I'm not wanting "dirt" per say. Just interested in which lens they use in case I have to trouble shoot some glasses.


Was just teasing about the dirt ; ) Unfortunately they never shared that info with us retail side, even us Opticians! It seems to be more basic digital PAL lens, it isn't awful by any means, but certainly not a cutting edge lens. They only have one AR option and just based on our care instructions given and defects I'd seen its definitely equivalent to a tier A AR.

----------


## ATXOptician

> [COLOR=#3E3E3E][FONT=Verdana]
> I don't think anybody wants to know the dirt on optiBoard. However if we could learn that or why WP has the power to divert large masses of the public to purchase their glasses from them instead the conventional optometrist or optician that has been around for a hundred years would already be a step forward.


Marketing. Their aesthetic and "brand" is equally as important to the company as the product itself and they made glasses "cool". Their price is also really good, and most independent places that try to compete sacrifice *something*, like forgo an AR or something or use a cheapo frame.

----------


## ATXOptician

> Will,
> My one big ask is why did you decide to leave WP?   Please don’t generalize and give canned answers.  Your honesty will provide many of us with crucial insights.  
> Also, know that WP silently monitors this forum, so you can always use the PM functions.


I hated what it was becoming. When I joined, they were already a large company, but their physical retail presence was brand new and still had a real small, grassroots feel. They seemed to truly care about us employees and our team felt like a "family". As it got bigger the organizational structure changed, they started screwing us over more and more often. Eventually I just had enough. There are things I still admire and respect about the company, but the direction their retail division went is definitely not one of them. And hi Warby if you're reading this!

----------


## optimensch

> There are things I still admire and respect about the company, but the direction their *retail division* went is definitely not one of them. And hi Warby if you're reading this!


Do they have another division? How did they start screwing over employees? What do you think their biggest challenge is going forward?
Thanks in advance for contributing here and shedding a little light.

----------


## ATXOptician

> Do they have another division? How did they start screwing over employees? What do you think their biggest challenge is going forward?
> Thanks in advance for contributing here and shedding a little light.


1. Sorry, meant physical retail to be more specific, there was a big split between physical and online retail. There was also CX (customer service) and corporate, with a lot more divisions in corporate but I don't have those details.

2. Not gonna lie, it still isn't a bad retail job. But there seemed to be a genuine care for their employees, that as the years went by seemed to turn into nothing but lip service. Benefits being cut back, pay rates dropped down, less trust and autonomy offered to retail stores from corporate, a bigger focus on the numbers as opposed to customer service. Numbers matter to me now at my smaller office I am now at, but at Warby they couldn't get me to care- it was a huge corporation! My philosophy was sales numbers didn't matter so much, I wanted to focus on the customer journey. And that used to be the overall philosophy as well.

A good example was right before I left our store was piloting their new Rx service- they bought a fleet of fancy new handheld autorefractors. If they didn't have their Rx or it was expired we would take a reading, have them fill out a lifestyle questions survey on an iPad, and the results would be beamed to a teledoctor and an Rx would be issued within 24hrs. Cool, but not a comprehensive eye exam. And the training literature stated that very clearly! So we're doing it and if I got someone with a verrrrry old prescription I would stress when I do it that hey, this isn't a full eye exam, it works in a pinch but you should really go visit a doctor in person soon. After doing that for a bit I got pulled aside and asked to maybe not push that so much, even though it was in the customers best interest.

3. Honestly? They're doing really well, so it is hard to say. As much as I disagree with a lot of their internal things, they are in a good position currently. But I'd say what I noticed from my position they were struggling with was trying to expand their product line greatly (flash mirror sun, photochromic, etc) while still conveying the whole "Frames. $95. Simple as that." schtick. I'm positive they have bigger problems than that, but that was my takeaway.

----------


## Happylady

I told a woman the other day I liked her glasses and she told me they were Warby Parker. She got them at a store, not on-line.  They did look great on her.

So I thought I heard that Warby Parker has yet to make a profit. This was a little while ago, I'm wondering if it's true, or still true.  It's easy to sell inexpensive glasses if you don't make a profit.

What warranty does Warby Parker offer on the lenses and frames.

----------


## ATXOptician

> I told a woman the other day I liked her glasses and she told me they were Warby Parker. She got them at a store, not on-line.  They did look great on her.
> 
> So I thought I heard that Warby Parker has yet to make a profit. This was a little while ago, I'm wondering if it's true, or still true.  It's easy to sell inexpensive glasses if you don't make a profit.
> 
> What warranty does Warby Parker offer on the lenses and frames.


I don't think thats true, but I might be wrong. I do not understand money on a large, corporate scale at all.... hurts my head just thinking about it. I do know it seemed at least yearly they were getting more investment money, and a LOT of it, from (??? who knows where).

They offer a pretty standard warranty. 1 year scratch warranty on lenses, and a 2 year manufacturers warranty on frames (the latter isn't advertised).

----------


## Kwill212

> I do know it seemed at least yearly they were getting more investment money, and a LOT of it, from (??? who knows where).


And there is the rub. WP isn't in the business of selling glasses. Replace glasses with any other widget and the goal is the same. Market Share. That is all they are after. Gain market share by losing money on what they sell, dupe the public with slick marketing that makes real opticians look like "greedy middle men", convince them they are selling the same products at a fraction of the prices. Undercut the competition and put them out of business because glasses aren't the commodity. Information and market share is. Get big enough that another bigger company will by them up.  If a company is giving away things to you for nothing, or too good to be true prices, _you_ are commodity.

----------


## ATXOptician

> And there is the rub. WP isn't in the business of selling glasses. Replace glasses with any other widget and the goal is the same. Market Share. That is all they are after. Gain market share by losing money on what they sell, dupe the public with slick marketing that makes real opticians look like "greedy middle men", convince them they are selling the same products at a fraction of the prices. Undercut the competition and put them out of business because glasses aren't the commodity. Information and market share is. Get big enough that another bigger company will by them up.  If a company is giving away things to you for nothing, or too good to be true prices, _you_ are commodity.


You aren't wrong!

----------


## OscarMadison

Manufacturing of the eyeglasses and turnaround time. Made in the States or outsourced to Asia?

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Manufacturing of the eyeglasses and turnaround time. Made in the States or outsourced to Asia?
> *





Sept. 6, 2017


Warby Parker is taking its expansion from online refraction and eyewear seller, and fledgling bricks-and-mortar retailer, to the next level: opening its own optical labs, according to reporting from Inc. magazine, which recently interviewed the company’s founders, Neil Blumenthal and Dave Gilboa.


Earlier this year, Warby opened an optical lab–where lenses are cut, inserted into frames and shipped–in the Hudson Valley town of Sloatsburg, NY, a move that Inc. calls “a first step to taking over more of its manufacturing.”


It’s aggressively opening brick-and-mortar retail locations, and this year it will add 19 to its existing 50. In the past year, Gilboa says, such outlets brought in about half of Warby’s revenue, but in 2017, Warby is primarily a brick-and-mortar retailer.


Having its own optical lab means the company will control production and distribution, offering better-quality inspections and fewer shipping delays. Warby’s data team is analyzing additional lab locations.


What it might mean to independent ECPs is a stronger competitor that not only can deliver online refraction and eyewear shopping, but can deliver the product even faster, thanks to control of its own optical labs.


The question for ROB readers: Will this development put greater pressure on you to deliver products to patients faster, in addition to more inexpensively and virtually?


Click HERE to read the full report in Inc. magazine.

https://reviewob.com/warby-parker-now-optical-lab

*RELATED ITEMS:ISSUES IN OPTOMETRY*

----------


## ATXOptician

Yes, that lab has been open for a while now, I mentioned it in an earlier post. Quality of jobs from that lab improved over the labs they were previously (and still also) used, but not as much as I would have hoped. It also didn't impact order time at all, Warbys promised delivery time has always been 7-10 business days for SV and 10-12 for progressive. Frames are mostly manufactured in China, with some from limited run collections being made in Japan or Italy. I think they are vaguely looking at American manufacturing, but I don't think any serious steps had been made towards that at least during my time there. However, that wouldn't necessarily be something I would have heard about, either.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> Y*es, that lab has been open for a while now, I mentioned it in an earlier post. Quality of jobs from that lab improved over the labs they were previously (and still also) used, but not as much as I would have hoped. It also didn't impact order time at all, Warbys promised delivery time has always been 7-10 business days for SV and 10-12 for progressive.* *Frames are mostly manufactured in China, with some from limited run collections being made in Japan or Italy. I think they are vaguely looking at American manufacturing, but I don't think any serious steps had been made towards that at least during my time there.** However, that wouldn't necessarily be something I would have heard about, either.
> *



.........................thank you "will pockets" for this informative answer.

How would you describe the quality of optical frames, made in China, as sold retail byWP at just below $ xxx including polycarbonate  lenses ? 

 I have been around in the optical since the Japanese started to make frames, and for the 1st few years, they were not the best, but improved very fast, and the same happened happened to Chinese quality in optical frames. However their factory pricing is way below anything else on the market, imported into North America or Europe.

So when the oliner sells on the open market, they are making a decent, if not highly inflated markup, without any personalized service.

----------


## Uncle Fester

From the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...=.e232936710c8

https://www.warbyparker.com/privacy-policy

----------


## lensmanmd

> From the Washington Post:
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...=.e232936710c8
> 
> https://www.warbyparker.com/privacy-policy


It will be a matter of time before they add wearer metrics into this.  PD and fitting height convenience in one package.  Time for independents to up their game in service and turn times.  This will apply to labs, as well.  
Our advantage?   Knowledge in fitting, quality, troubleshooting and adjustments.  Emphasis on knowledge.

----------


## ATXOptician

> .........................thank you "will pockets" for this informative answer.
> 
> How would you describe the quality of optical frames, made in China, as sold retail byWP at just below $ xxx including polycarbonate  lenses ?


With a few exceptions the frames are actually very good quality, not just for the price but overall. To be honest they felt more sturdy at times than some premium designer brands. One exception to this is they switched temple styles (made their temples thinner at the end) a few years ago, and since then what was once an embedded metal logo plaque is now a foil sticker adhered on which will ALWAYS fall off, in time. Sometimes it would have fallen off before we even received them. One of my favorite hobbies towards the end was alert Supply Chain at every single instance I ran into it (I'm sure they loved me ; ) ). Obnoxious but no impact on the quality of the frame overall. Where Warby cuts corners is the lens quality.

----------


## ATXOptician

> It will be a matter of time before they add wearer metrics into this.  PD and fitting height convenience in one package.  Time for independents to up their game in service and turn times.  This will apply to labs, as well.  
> Our advantage?   Knowledge in fitting, quality, troubleshooting and adjustments.  Emphasis on knowledge.


This is your advantage when it comes to competing to Warby as an online retailer. In store experience is quite different, as Warby has dedicated Opticians and they prefer to hire people with optical experience. Their in-house training for Opticians is robust and they will even pay to get you certified.

My advice? For a SV customer, lighter prescription, there really isn't much you can compete with. Even for a high-index customer, they only charge $30 more for a 1.67 lens. If you want to compete with Warby, focus on what you can offer and they can't: Trivex, brand-name progressives, non crap tier AR, blue protection, etc etc. Don't push designer brands, because if a customer is interested in designer brands they already aren't shopping at Warby. I've even begun to embrace them here, telling people they're great-- for a second pair, and to use their insurance to get a premium lens and frame with me first.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> Originally Posted by *Uncle Fester* 
> _From the Washington Post:
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...=.e232936710c8
> 
> https://www.warbyparker.com/privacy-policy_








> *It will be a matter of time before they add wearer metrics into this.  PD and fitting height convenience in one package.
> 
> **Time for independents to up their game in service and turn times. This will apply to labs, as well. 
> ** 
> Our advantage?   Knowledge in fitting, quality, troubleshooting and adjustments.  Emphasis on knowledge.*



..............................thank you Uncle Fester and Lensmanmd


I have been through this lengthy article, that shows that they are some well organized big business, that seems to be doing something right, and should not be shrugged off.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *With a few exceptions the frames are actually very good quality, not just for the price but overall.** 
> 
> To be honest they felt more sturdy at times than some premium designer brands. One exception to this is they switched temple styles (made their temples thinner at the end) a few years ago, and since then what was once an embedded metal logo plaque is now a foil sticker adhered on which will ALWAYS fall off, in time. Sometimes it would have fallen off before we even received them. One of my favorite hobbies towards the end was alert Supply Chain at every single instance I ran into it (I'm sure they loved me ; ) ). 
> 
> **Obnoxious, but no impact on the quality of the frame overall. 
> 
> **Where Warby cuts corners is the lens quality.*




Thank you again "will pockets" for your post today on optiBoard, supporting first hand what other posters have claimed right here on optiBoard, to be nothing than garbage quality frames, sold through the online WP optical services, and, or others, as the"Essilux" owned ones and more.

The standard North American optical retail world is still selling "Polycarbonate Lenses" as a prime choice, at elevated prices, because of its unbreakable characteristics, introduced and pushed by the "Lenscrafters stores some 20 years ago," and sold at artificially higher prices, while it has become a standard quality on online glasses.

This revalues also my posts here on optiBoard, on the world's 3rd largest commercial website, "Alibaba.com", which advertises also hundreds of optical frames at the original factory pricing from China to Thailand and many more.

Some real food for thought, and how do you plan the future of the conventional professional retail optician, as it has been for the last hundred years  ?

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *My advice? For a SV customer, lighter prescription, there really isn't much you can compete with. Even for a high-index customer, they only charge $30 more for a 1.67 lens.* *If you want to compete with Warby, focus on what you can offer and they can't: Trivex, brand-name progressives, non crap tier AR, blue protection, etc etc. 
> 
> Don't push designer brands, because if a customer is interested in designer brands they already aren't shopping at Warby. 
> 
> I've even begun to embrace them here, telling people they're great-- for a second pair, and to use their insurance to get a premium lens and frame with me first.
> *




.............................and here is some good advice from a person that has been on both sides of the fence.

----------


## Kwill212

> With a few exceptions the frames are actually very good quality, not just for the price but overall. To be honest they felt more sturdy at times than some premium designer brands. One exception to this is they switched temple styles (made their temples thinner at the end) a few years ago, and since then what was once an embedded metal logo plaque is now a foil sticker adhered on which will ALWAYS fall off, in time. Sometimes it would have fallen off before we even received them. One of my favorite hobbies towards the end was alert Supply Chain at every single instance I ran into it (I'm sure they loved me ; ) ). Obnoxious but no impact on the quality of the frame overall. Where Warby cuts corners is the lens quality.


So what brands are you comparing WP frames to when you say they are "very good quality"? This is pretty vague. What characteristics of frames are you comparing? Longevity, adjustable, holding adjustments, balance of the frame, ability to stretch/reshape as needed, propensity for the screws to loosen, feel on the skin, size and quality of the hinges, does the plastic shrink over time causing plus lenses to pop out the front, does the plastic turn white and chalky with use. These are some of the things off the top of my head that I care about concerning frame quality. I know of the couple dozen WP frames people have brought to me, none of them would be what I would call, very good quality. Obviously this doesn't just apply to WP frames, plenty of other "brand name" frames as well.

----------


## lensmanmd

My lab processes quite a few POFs from WP.  IMHO, most of their acetates are good quality, easily glazed.  Most were pre-glazed, as our patients did not like the quality of lenses they received from WP.  Others are brought to us due to their vision benefits.  Compared to frames from Zenni, I would rather process WP frames all day long.
The caveat is, their metal frames are nothing to write home about, and their 3 piece are crap.  We process a lot of Silhouette and Marchon, with the occasional Oakley/Prada/Lux 3 piece.  I would rather work with Lux 3 piece than WP 3 piece.  
Dollar for dollar, I do think that WP acetates are of better quality than other 'like priced' value acetates.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *My lab processes quite a few POFs from WP.  IMHO, most of their acetates are good quality, easily glazed.  Most were pre-glazed, as our patients did not like the quality of lenses they received from WP.  Others are brought to us due to their vision benefits. * *Compared to frames from Zenni, I would rather process WP frames all day long.
> *



...................... so now that we have established that WP plastic frames are of good quality .............and better, than the ones supplied by Zenni online. There have to be different quality levels between competitors.

So how does this correspond to the screaming of some optiBoard members in recent threads, that it is totally bad quality ?

It also brings us to the question of pricing the now suddenly good quality pricing by WP in frames ?

Looking at optical eyeglass frames, at ex factory pricing on alibaba.com for example, including transport and import charges added, they, WP makes a fair profit markup in general.

So there is some misunderstanding about conventional pricing of eyeglasses in the optical retail world  and will need some reviews.

----------


## Chris Ryser

I would also recommend to look again at the thread on :  alibaba of a couple of month ago right here on optiBoard.

see at:

https://www.optiboard.com/forums/sho...80%A6%E2%80%A6

----------


## Kwill212

> ...................... so now that we have established that WP plastic frames are of good quality


We did? When? Because Lensmanmd (no offence) said so? It's all just opinion, including my own. However, the only real opinion that matters is that of the purchaser anyway. Just because you couldn't pay me to sell those frames, doesn't mean and end user can't find them perfectly acceptable and extremely valuable. The same can be said about people who wouldn't be caught dead wearing a WP frame and will only purchase independent brands made with top of the line materials, craftsmanship, and lenses. It's almost as if there is a wide gamut of consumers who have differing opinions on what they want. The smart optician will pick a segment they can be successful in, and service that segment. McDonald's doesn't care what Ruth's Chris is doing, and vice versa. But, if as a small business you try to wade into the shallow end of the pool with the big fish with endless pockets, you are going to get eaten alive.

----------


## lensmanmd

Me thinks what I said was taken out of context 
dollar for dollar, WP acetate frames are better than like prices frames does not mean that they are better than mid range and above acetates. 
I would rather work with WP frames than Zenni frames does not mean I would rather work with WP frames over high quality frames. 
I glaze WP pofs to replace their lenses means that we produce higher quality products.  It does not mean I endorse their optical quality.  There is a reason why we replace them.  
Rant over.

----------


## mervinek

+1  That's the way I understood it.



> Me thinks what I said was taken out of context 
> dollar for dollar, WP acetate frames are better than like prices frames does not mean that they are better than mid range and above acetates. 
> I would rather work with WP frames than Zenni frames does not mean I would rather work with WP frames over high quality frames. 
> I glaze WP pofs to replace their lenses means that we produce higher quality products.  It does not mean I endorse their optical quality.  There is a reason why we replace them.  
> Rant over.

----------


## optimensch

> Looking at optical eyeglass frames, at ex factory pricing on alibaba.com for example, including transport and import charges added, they, WP makes a fair profit markup in general.
> 
> So there is some misunderstanding about conventional pricing of eyeglasses in the optical retail world  and will need some reviews.


What does a `fair profit markup`mean? What misunderstanding about conventional pricing of eyeglasses is there...I price my products, people look at the prices, sometimes they buy, sometimes they don`t, sometimes they price compare right from their phones (and try to negotiate the price down) - not sure where there is a misunderstanding in the process....its actually very transparent and easy to understand. I don`t know what Alibaba factory pricing has to do with anything though - you can find all sorts of cheap product, knock offs etc at any local flea market or in a big electronic flea market like Alibaba, but what does this have to do with prices at a professional optical retail though? How do you know what WP pays for their frames, did you find their factory on Alibaba displaying WP frames ? Link please.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *What does a `fair profit markup`mean? What misunderstanding about conventional pricing of eyeglasses is there...**I price my products, people look at the prices, sometimes they buy, sometimes they don`t, sometimes they price compare right from their phones (and try to negotiate the price down) - not sure where there is a misunderstanding in the process....its actually very transparent and easy to understand. 
> *



................. there used to be a time, some 25 to 30 years ago, when optical frame wholesalers/importers, charged the optical retail customers prices, that were based on a 35 to 42% markup of their landed cost, as a gross profit. The sale was a final price, including whatever the factory warranty would be.

Due to heavy competition from manufacturers the world over, the market got flooded with new brands and models, and competition got a lot fiercer. Frame wholesalers offered all sorts of options to gain more customers, from free consignments and warranties, to taking back sold frames for credit or exchange with newer models at later dates.

This new system was very costly on the frame wholesalers, who then raised their selling prices to the retail industry over the years to 
markups of over 300% of their landed cost, to cover the cost of all the free goodies they were offering the retail end.

This much higher cost of optical frames has been translated to the public, as the charge of much higher quality products by the manufacturers, were it is in reality a service charge to please the retail market operators. 

There are no freebies in this world of commerce and at the end somebody is paying for all the no charge extras.


..............................and here is the link to the alibaba.com site:

https://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php/69434-The-cat-is-out-of-the-bag-%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80  %A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6

----------


## optimensch

> There are no freebies in this world of commerce and at the end somebody is paying for all the no charge extras.
> 
> 
> ..............................and here is the link to the alibaba.com site:
> 
> https://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php/69434-The-cat-is-out-of-the-bag-%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80  %A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6


Chris, with peace and respect, why are you posting a useless link. Do you or do you not have a direct link to the WP manufacturer on alibaba where we can purchase WP frames at their "ex factory" cost? You make these claims where it seems we can find everything on Alibaba, that Alibaba is the new arbiter of price and that now the cat is out of the bag. I would like to buy Rayban, WP and other original frames (without logos to avoid trademark issues) from the original factories, the exact models/quality at the exceptional prices you profess to now know. A direct link please, not a link to your old posts. If all you have are links to cheap knock offs and just useless non-actionable information then let's get that cat out of the bag as well. There are MOQs, quality issues and logistics to consider when going factory direct. A price listed on on Alibaba for cheap frames is as useless as T&#S on a bull. The bottom line is you CANNOT claim to have found anything on Alibaba which links to any brand's original product manufacturer, you do NOT know which factories they purchase from and this is for OBVIOUS reasons. You are simply pointing to a flea market stand and yelling - hey look at these super cheap prices for super cheap frames!, some of which sort of RESEMBLE actual quality brands! There has never been more options for consumers, the market is huge and this is all just normal business like in many other industries. Free market capitalism may have a future.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Chris, with peace and respect, why are you posting a useless link.* *Do you or do you not have a direct link to the WP manufacturer on alibaba where we can purchase WP frames at their "ex factory" cost? You make these claims where it seems we can find everything on Alibaba, that Alibaba is the new arbiter of price and that now the cat is out of the bag.
> **
> The bottom line is you CANNOT claim to have found anything on Alibaba which links to any brand's original product manufacturer, you do NOT know which factories they purchase from and this is for OBVIOUS reasons. You are simply pointing to a flea market stand and yelling - hey look at these super cheap prices for super cheap frames!, some of which sort of RESEMBLE actual quality brands! There has never been more options for consumers, the market is huge and this is all just normal business like in many other industries. Free market capitalism may have a future.*



optimensch, also with peace and due respect, do you actually believe that WP would have told me where to get the frames that they are buying and reselling ?

Anybody being a large supplier, or most probably several of them to WP,  must have  signed a confidentiality agreement with WP not to reveal where they purchase their frames.

Alibaba is nothing else than the largest media, and a central point used to advertise by optical frame and lens manufacturers mostly in the far east, with pictures and pricing at certain quantities. You will have to find what you like, and contact the manufacturer directly and deal also with them, in reference to logo and model name or whatever you want to have the frames marked with.

All I am doing is steering you in the right direction, which will bring you the wanted results if you want to invest the time and work
to contact those manufacturers that can supply you what you want or need in the quantities requested. You have a boat load of possibilities at your fingertips, in every price range and or quality you desire, but you will have to do the work yourself, or pay somebody to do it.

----------


## Prentice Pro 9000

> Was just teasing about the dirt ; ) Unfortunately they never shared that info with us retail side, even us Opticians! It seems to be more basic digital PAL lens, it isn't awful by any means, but certainly not a cutting edge lens. They only have one AR option and just based on our care instructions given and defects I'd seen its definitely equivalent to a tier A AR.


I would suspect IOT.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Hey! New here and I've been browsing for about a week, enjoying the site so far. Seems you all aren't Warby fans- not that I blame you! I was there for about 3 years, started as part-time sales but became an Optician and member of the management team before leaving earlier this summer (I'm now at an independent eyeglasses provider and loving it, for the record).
> 
> I didn't sign an NDA so if you want the dirt.... ask me anything and I'll do my best to answer!
> *



"will pockets" ..........................................




The above quote is again your original one, you made 10 days ago when you started the first post on optiBoard. In the 10 days since its start, it has become one of the most viewed and answered ones in recent history of optiBoard.

Up to this moment of this date, there was : 2847 Views,  and 39 replies, since it was started by you on January 30, 2019 at 01:21 PM, which must be a new record for optiBoard in recent days, and has proved that there is some real active interest, by both the posting members, as well as the visitors to optiBoard, on the subject of the most active online optical "Warby Parker".

This is a new proof, that the latest and fastest growing new wave of of online discount, optical retail sales has "stirred some optical minds of all sorts", if they are for, or against this new commercial wave.

WP also has recently made a deal with the "US Health Insurance", a few month ago,  to supply their clients with glasses, on which there are some subjects posted, also right here on optiBoard. This also means that WP is now in direct competition in the eyeglass insurance sector, with the Essilux owned "EYE MED" and the huge "VSP" organization. 

I have made posts right here on optiBoard all ready 15 years ago, predicting some of the future happenings in the optical trade and see more and more of it becoming reality, as we go along.

----------


## haliopt

It's not just the Optical biz that is going to change. When true 5G happens we will not recognize our 1st world environment. Perhaps as soon as 3 to 10 years from now. 
Two days ago, I chatted (typing) with this great Microsoft tech support guy, Luke U. After he solved my problem and he asked for my comments to the support he provided, I said, take the rest of the day off and start your weekend, you rock! Luke replied, "I am sorry I don't know the answer to that question". Hot damn, I had been chatting with AI for 30 minutes and didn't know it. To make things even worst. I watched I Robot that same night.
*The Turing test*, developed by Alan *Turing* in 1950, is a *test* of a machine's ability to exhibit intelligent behavior equivalent to, or indistinguishable from, that of a human.
Eye exams over the internet? 3D printing your own custom frames? Eye disease detection from your smartphone? Remote cataract surgery? All will be possible sooner or later. 
I always thought that electric or self dring cars would never be reliable or possible in the near future. My 2014 Ford Escape can flawlessly parallel park better then any person could.
What's my point? I don't know if being concerned about the future of the optical business is debatable. Things are going to change faster and into something we never could have imagined for every aspect of our lives.
Luke U will take care of that for us. I am not sure if I should be happy or afraid. I guess I'm afraid.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *It's not just the Optical biz that is going to change. When true 5G happens we will not recognize our 1st world environment. Perhaps as soon as 3 to 10 years from now. 
> 
> .........................
> 
> **What's my point? I don't know if being concerned about the future of the optical business is debatable. Things are going to change faster and into something we never could have imagined for every aspect of our lives.
> Luke U will take care of that for us. I am not sure if I should be happy or afraid. I guess I'm afraid.
> *




We should all be afraid of the 5G future, but take measures to recognize it, keep our eyes and ears open, and take some action and measures to avert any disaster to our way of living.

The first signs should be visible and noticeable this year, with coverage of the most densely inhabited geographic areas and the rest to follow over the next few years.

The world will be run by computers in every field of life, that we can not even imagine at this stage of the game.

The optical eyeglass field has already been mapped out by the large monopoles, that have been looking ahead for the last few years, and taken their measures to be sure to succeed along with the new electronic progress.

----------


## Chris Ryser

Some 2 month's ago .................................... is there any insider story to this announcement, that puts the WP into the same category, as the Essilux EYE MED or the VSP insurance benefits ?
*

Some retirees won't have to sacrifice fashion for affordability when buying their next pair of prescription glasses.*
 
UnitedHealth, the largest U.S. health insurer, announced on Monday it will offer about 2 million people enrolled in its Medicare Advantage plans access to Warby Parker's prescription eyewear online and at more than 80 stores stores for little- to no out-of-pocket cost.

A $375 pair of designer prescription sunglasses from Warby Parker could cost a person less than $50 under a Medicare Advantage plan, according to UnitedHealth.

*"We know baby boomers are looking for a more convenient and personalized health care experience, and we believe they will find Warby Parker's innovative model both appealing and affordable as they shop for eyewear," John Ryan, general manager of UnitedHealthcare Vision, said in a statement.*


see all of it:
shttps://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/19/unit...care-plan.html

----------


## Chris Ryser

> Some 2 month's ago .................................... is there any insider story to this announcement, that puts the WP into the same category, as the Essilux EYE MED or the VSP insurance benefits ?
> 
> *UnitedHealth, the largest U.S. health insurer, announced on Monday it will offer about 2 million people enrolled in its Medicare Advantage plans access to Warby Parker's prescription eyewear online and at more than 80 stores stores for little- to no out-of-pocket cost.
> *



"will pockets" ..........................................

Are you in the "know how" of this announcement ?  Some two million new customers going their way is a huge gain of business for any company, and should be interesting news for them.

----------


## drk

Is there anything else you want to add to your dystopian nightmare, Chris?  

How about this one: everyone will be walking around in a virtual reality headset that is cortically connected, obviating the need for eyes.

----------


## optical24/7

> "will pockets" ..........................................
> 
> Are you in the "know how" of this announcement ?  Some two million new customers going their way is a huge gain of business for any company, and should be interesting news for them.


Chris, that's like saying you are going to open a store in a town with 2 million people and have 2 million new customers. Also keep in mind that plan is for retiree's. WB doesn't offer FT lenses of any sort. ( Lot's of retiree's preferred lens type, just like you...)

----------


## Quig

> Is there anything else you want to add to your dystopian nightmare, Chris?  
> 
> How about this one: everyone will be walking around in a virtual reality headset that is cortically connected, obviating the need for eyes.


Lol!! Red pill or blue pill?

Not only is it his dystopian nightmare, it's one that he's an expert on in all aspects. He knows what has happened and why, what is happening, and why and what is going to happen and why. We all should be humbly grateful for his extraordinary generosity for sharing his brilliance with us. I sure know I am...  :Wink:

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Is there anything else you want to add to your dystopian nightmare, Chris? 
> 
> How about this one: everyone will be walking around in a virtual reality headset that is cortically connected, obviating the need for eyes.
> *



*ADJECTIVE*


Relating to or denoting an imagined state or society where there is great suffering or injustice.
_‘the dystopian future of a society bereft of reason’_


_‘the utopian dream that became a dystopian nightmare’







 Originally Posted by optical24/7





_


> *Chris, that's like saying you are going to open a store in a town with 2 million people and have 2 million new customers. Also keep in mind that plan is for retiree's. WB doesn't offer FT lenses of any sort. ( Lot's of retiree's preferred lens type, just like you...)*_
> 
> _


_



wrong..............optical24/7
_They are selling exclusively to 2 million older people that would have been spread over an conventional, existing and established market under the existing way of doing business for the last 100 years.

........and yes the plan is for retirees who will not be around anymore, in a few years from now, and the new oldies waiting in line to retire, have been wearing progressives, since they needed glasses for close up work.
(furthermore I am writing this post looking through a pair of progressives lenses, while I still prefer my ST 35 lenses to read a book or a newspaper.






> *Lol!! Red pill or blue pill?*
> 
> *Not only is it his dystopian nightmare, it's one that he's an expert on in all aspects. He knows what has happened and why, what is happening, and why and what is going to happen and why. We all should be humbly grateful for his extraordinary generosity for sharing his brilliance with us. I sure know I am... 
> *




I can only answer your friendly post with, a piece of history from Winston Churchill in 1938:

Churchill's warnings about the danger of the new Nazi regime in Germany initially fell on deaf ears. In 1938 Britain and Germany almost went to war over Hitler's desire to annex part of Czechoslovakia. Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain flew to Munich to secure a guarantee that there would be no further German aggression. Churchill was critical of the policy of appeasement and broadcast directly to the United States, appealing for greater American involvement in Europe. When Hitler occupied Prague and the Czech provinces of Bohemia and Moravia, Churchill's predictions were seen to be coming true.


source:
https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/churchill/wc-hour.html

----------


## Quig

Nothing but a bunch of cutting and pasting. Nothing to see here, as usual...

----------


## Kwill212

> _
> wrong..............optical24/7_They are selling *exclusively* to 2 million older people that would have been spread over an conventional, existing and established market under the existing way of doing business for the last 100 years.



I wasn't aware that the 2 million members were allowed only to purchase from WP. Where does this exclusivity come from? 






> I can only answer your friendly post with, a piece of history from Winston Churchill in 1938:
> 
> Churchill's warnings about the danger of the new Nazi regime in Germany initially fell on deaf ears. In 1938 Britain and Germany almost went to war over Hitler's desire to annex part of Czechoslovakia. Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain flew to Munich to secure a guarantee that there would be no further German aggression. Churchill was critical of the policy of appeasement and broadcast directly to the United States, appealing for greater American involvement in Europe. When Hitler occupied Prague and the Czech provinces of Bohemia and Moravia, Churchill's predictions were seen to be coming true.
> 
> 
> source:
> https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/churchill/wc-hour.html


aaand we've gone full on to pants on head crazy town folks. Trying to make comparisions between online eyeglasses and Nazis, wow.

----------


## King of the Lab



----------


## Chris Ryser

> *I wasn't aware that the 2 million members were allowed only to purchase from WP. Where does this exclusivity come from? 
> *


if you would have checked the post you would have seen it, including the link

*Retirees can buy Warby Parker designer glasses for under $50 with UnitedHealth's Medicare plan*


UnitedHealth says it will offer about 2 million of its Medicare Advantage beneficiaries access to Warby Parker's prescription eyewear.A $95 pair of designer prescription sunglasses from Warby Parker could cost less than $50 under a Medicare Advantage plan, according to UnitedHealth.

Berkeley Lovelace Jr.    | @BerkeleyJr
Published 2:58 PM ET Mon, 19 Nov 2018  Updated 9:18 PM ET Wed, 21 Nov 2018







> *aaand we've gone full on to pants on head crazy town folks. Trying to make comparisions between online eyeglasses and Nazis, wow.
> *



no comments to be made ..........................

----------


## Chris Ryser

> \
> 
> *Nothing but a bunch of cutting and pasting. Nothing to see here, as usual...*



......................thanks you for your compliments, however they get boring. Out of a total of 34 of your posts on optiBoard  look and say the same thing.

----------


## Kwill212

> if you would have checked the post you would have seen it, including the link
> 
> *Retirees can buy Warby Parker designer glasses for under $50 with UnitedHealth's Medicare plan*



Yes Chris, I don't think anyone could miss the 6 posts and your dozens of comments about that link if we tried. No where in there does it suggest any kind of exclusivity. To think that all two Million of those people on UHC medicare plan are going to start using WP is ridiculous. As if to say they can not buy glasses where ever they chose. I don't have any concrete evidence for this but I would venture to guess a large number of those people are pseudophakic and their OMD told them "just get some readers from the drug store, you don't need glasses anymore". I also think that another significant portion wear flat-top bifocals, and another significant portion can't log onto their computer without calling their grandchild, let alone want to order glasses online. This leaves a small % of the 2 million who now have acces to a 50% off coupon to WP. Whoopdie-doo. 

The older people get, the more they want service from professionals. As people age, their disposable income goes up, they can afford, and they want products that work better, that work right the first time, that last longer, they want expert advice and service for those products, and they are willing to pay for it. This is not new and is not about to change. Obviously there is a large section of society that this doesn't apply to. The ones that shop as Sams or Costco for everything they ever buy. That's fine. But, there will always be plenty enough of the other type of consumers to keep the good professionals and experts employed, no matter what the field. Until Skynet takes over, I think those of us providing top quality and service will be just fine.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *To think that all two Million of those people on UHC medicare plan are going to start using WP is ridiculous. As if to say they can not buy glasses where ever they chose. I don't have any concrete evidence for this but I would venture to guess a large number of those people are pseudophakic and their OMD told them "just get some readers from the drug store, you don't need glasses anymore".* *I also think that another significant portion wear flat-top bifocals, and another significant portion can't log onto their computer without calling their grandchild, let alone want to order glasses online. This leaves a small % of the 2 million who now have acces to a 50% off coupon to WP.** Whoopdie-doo. 
> 
> The older people get, the more they want service from professionals. As people age, their disposable income goes up, they can afford, and they want products that work better, that work right the first time, that last longer, they want expert advice and service for those products, and they are willing to pay for it. This is not new and is not about to change. Obviously there is a large section of society that this doesn't apply to. The ones that shop as Sams or Costco for everything they ever buy. That's fine.* *But, there will always be plenty enough of the other type of consumers to keep the good professionals and experts employed, no matter what the field. Until Skynet takes over, I think those of us providing top quality and service will be just fine.*



Thank you Kwill for the first time answering my post with a real opinion, ...................and without any side comments.

1) The generation you describe is listed in every daily newspaper in larger numbers all over the continent as departed forever.

...........and yes many or most of them can not log on to a computer, because they did not believe into the change of technology would make on our lives forever.

However they most probably will be notified, in other ways, by their health insurance on important facts, because large insurances companies have not become rich and successful, because the are stupid and payout more than they make.

The olergeneration is now progressively replaced by the next generation, who has experience buying online, and which is growing year after year. 


2) Older people most of the time live from their life savings and or, with a pension from a lifelong job. They are much more careful in spending their money at that stage of their life.

You do not have to worry about the old generations, you have to worry about what if following next, and the most forward planning optical corporation I have learned, is the Essilux that soon will be the biggest influence on the optical world retail market, trying to dominate it.

----------


## optical24/7

> _ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrong..............optical24/7
> _They are selling exclusively to 2 million older people that would have been spread over an conventional, existing and established market under the existing way of doing business for the last 100 years.


Chris, I respectfully disagree. I'm not wrong because there is no way on God's green Earth *ALL* 2 million subscribers are going to buy their glasses at WP! Heck, not even VSP, which arguable has the best vision plan for out of pocket costs to the patient retain ALL of their members. I know this because we don't take VSP yet sell to VSP patients all day, every day.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Chris, I respectfully disagree. I'm not wrong because there is no way on God's green Earth ALL 2 million subscribers are going to buy their glasses at WP! Heck, not even VSP, which arguable has the best vision plan for out of pocket costs to the patient retain ALL of their members. I know this because we don't take VSP yet sell to VSP patients all day, every day.
> *




optical24..............................of course you are right. I posted what they said. That is never the end result, but it could be if all of them would go the recommended way.

We are right now at the start of the biggest change of the commercial world, with the just starting G5 technology  were computers will also do their own thinking and acting.

All we have to do is watching out and keep our eyes open and go along with fast  coming changes, to adapt in order to stay commercially alive.

----------


## Chris Ryser

It all boils down to get some more inside information from a recent former member of the WP organization, that has mushroomed successfully into the optical retail world in North America.

Any such information should, or could help the still independent professional optical retailer to take some counter action, and to slow the flow of patients to such discount retailers.

With the latest news of, and in the general economy that has slowed down progressively, the commercial sales of discounted goods would tend to increase in general. 

WP is only the latest success story in the optical retail discount market. The much bigger threat for domination comes from the 
biggest world wide monopoly ever, that caters to the retailers and also absorbs them into their system at any time there's a chance to do so.

----------


## Barry Santini

Might be a good time to read this again:

http://www.dailyoptician.com/barry-s...-welcome-warby

B

----------


## Chris Ryser

...............................interesting

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *
> Might be a good time to read this again:
> 
> http://www.dailyoptician.com/barry-santini/2016/1/19/we-welcome-warby
> *
> B



Compare our industry's reaction to Warby Parker with the 5 Stages of Grief:


*Denial* - "At that price, they can't be any good!"


*Anger* - "They called us greedy middlemen."


*Bargaining* - "Oh wait, Mr./Ms. Millennial!" ー as they walk with their Rx and PD ー "We too have some $99 complete packages!" "Now wait a minute, Mr. Eye Care Professional. You actually have a value, complete eyewear package for around $100? Why didn't you offer it to me before? Oh, I see...perhaps you are a greedy middleman after all."


*Depression* - "With all those Rxs walking out, will I still be able to stay in business servicing only aging baby boomers?"


*Acceptance* -  I'm not sure there is any...yet. But here my suggestions on how to deal:


continue:

*http://www.dailyoptician.com/barry-santini/2016/1/19/we-welcome-warby
*

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *This thread shows now today ..................................................* *61 Replies** and* *5254 Views,** in over a 2 week period since its start two weeks ago.
> *



I would never have imagined that a thread could attract that many views in such a short time. 

The WP online optica, which seems to be the most aggressive of all of them, has for sure stirred some special interest among optiBoard members as well as the visitors.

With Essilux getting organized for their next move in the optical world domination, and WP getting into optical Health Insurance supplies, there will be a continuous flow of interesting news in the near future.

----------


## skt

verrrry interesting

----------


## optimensch

> Might be a good time to read this again:
> 
> http://www.dailyoptician.com/barry-s...-welcome-warby
> 
> B


So you are saying we should consider welcoming folks who buy (cheap) eyewear online, who want their frames adjusted (for free), smile, offer the (free) use of our facilities, maybe offer a coffee, and hope that every now and then one of them might one day purchase something from us. 
I am coming around to completely 100% agreeing with you.

----------


## Uncle Fester

One possible way to monetize folks who insist on cost being the driving force in their eye wear purchase but want our services would be a yearly contract of $45 to verify rx, professionally fit the glasses (sending them back when they don't as so often happens!) and offer simple repairs and adjustments.

I know a few opticians around me have kicked this idea around for a few years so perhaps it's time to implement it.

----------


## drk

Guys, it's painfully simple.

Anyone can sell glasses out of their trunk.  (There used to be laws against that kind of thing, but...)

We're professionals.  It's easy to get this point.
1. We know what we're doing.
2. We care about the people we serve.3. We have the profession's best interest in mind, as to preserving and promoting it.
That's all there is.  Focus on being a professional.

Charge what you need to make a living and keep the optical open.  Nobody's going to get rich, here, but the big entrepreneurs.  We ain't them and they ain't us.

----------


## Kwill212

> Guys, it's painfully simple.
> 
> Anyone can sell glasses out of their trunk.  (There used to be laws against that kind of thing, but...)
> 
> We're professionals.  It's easy to get this point.
> 1. We know what we're doing.
> 2. We care about the people we serve.3. We have the profession's best interest in mind, as to preserving and promoting it.
> That's all there is.  Focus on being a professional.
> 
> Charge what you need to make a living and keep the optical open.  Nobody's going to get rich, here, but the big entrepreneurs.  We ain't them and they ain't us.


Yup, that's really about all there is to it. But some people just like beating the dead horse.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Yup, that's really about all there is to it. But some people just like beating the dead horse.
> *




The only horse that will be beaten when it is dead, will be retail opticianry, as it thinks and functions today, without accepting
a change in the optical retail profession that is rolling in a non stoppable way, for a total change.

----------


## Quig

> The only horse that will be beaten when it is dead, will be retail opticianry, as it thinks and functions today, without accepting
> a change in the optical retail profession that is rolling in a non stoppable way, for a total change.


Says the retiree who is now the official "Dr. Doom" of the industry!

Keep up the good work Chris!

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Says the retiree who is now the official "Dr. Doom" of the industry!
> **
> Keep up the good work Chris!*








who ever you are, as a novice to optiBoard with 28 post,s  mostly criticising my posts, is getting boring.........................

just ignore my post's , do not look at them and proceed to the next one

----------


## Quig

> who ever you are, as a novice to optiBoard with 28 post,s  mostly criticising my posts, is getting boring.........................
> 
> just ignore my post's , do not look at them and proceed to the next one


You want to know what's boring? Constant copying and pasting and alibaba'ing and posting about the demise of our industry while you're retired. 

And it's hilarious that you're so concerned with my post count. 

Annnnnnd, it's 38 posts. You reading this thread through glasses you bought online from Warby Parker!?

Annnnnnnnd, believe me, I've tried to ignore you. You make it pretty tough, you pollute this board pretty much everywhere. 

So maybe it's obvious, but I'm not in the 'In defense of Chris Ryser' camp. I disagree with you and you'll know it. Get used to it.  :Biggrin:

----------


## pknsbeans

I disagree.

I agree with almost everything Chris says.

I do wish the forum would revert back to ophthalmic optics and discussions regarding optical materials.  Chris's position is documented well enough.  Daily updates on the future of opticianry may be a bit excessive.  Maybe quarterly updates along with the optical beast's earnings and slow creep of domination would suffice, no?  

There are a few responses becoming more frequent from patient:
(start of exam) What brings you in today?
---"Well, I just got insurance and you are in my network."
(so, the patient didn't answer my question in a meaningful way.  Am I glad your insurance directed you my way? Sure.  Is my service only worth to YOU what somebody else will pay me? Hmm.)
(end of exam) Anything else I can do for you today?
--- "When I get my prescription, will it have the PD numbers or whatever I need for my glasses?

So yeah, Chris is spot on.  But as a daily peruser of the optiboard forum looking for something different that the "our profession is going to hell" like every other board for probably every other profession, threads other than "essilux is eating your lunch, taking your spouse and leaving you the bill" are a relief read.  I can get that other stuff some place else (places I don't visit... because I get it... robots and internet are taking over the world.)

But to say Chris is wrong is delusional.

----------


## Quig

> I disagree.
> 
> I agree with almost everything Chris says.
> 
> I do wish the forum would revert back to ophthalmic optics and discussions regarding optical materials.  Chris's position is documented well enough.  Daily updates on the future of opticianry may be a bit excessive.  Maybe quarterly updates along with the optical beast's earnings and slow creep of domination would suffice, no?  
> 
> There are a few responses becoming more frequent from patient:
> (start of exam) What brings you in today?
> ---"Well, I just got insurance and you are in my network."
> ...


Cue Ryser thanking you in 3... 2.... 1.... 

Ok, that was a cheap shot. I apologize.

Here's  the thing, I don't disagree with much of what you said. And I  appreciate it for being well written, and, seemingly a series of  original thoughts of your own based on current experience rather than a  bunch of cutting and pasting. That IS a HUGE difference and is imho, really, really important. 

I know  I'm being a bit confrontational and I'd prefer to not have to be that way. But, there's  a few of us who are tired of the doomsday scenario and those who are  seemingly cheering it on so they can say "I told you so". 

 :Cool:

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Ok, that was a cheap shot. I apologize.**
> 
> I know  I'm being a bit confrontational and I'd prefer to not have to be that way. But, there's  a few of us who are tired of the doomsday scenario and those who are  seemingly cheering it on so they can say "I told you so". 
> *




Ok, I accept your apology ....................................

The doomsday scenario is a fact, and I have my own personal involvement as of day one, many years ago. So the development of it has always been a top interest to me.

So if you do not like it, simply look the other way and ignore the posts on it.

Chris R.

----------


## Don Gilman

> Ok, I accept your apology ....................................
> 
> The doomsday scenario is a fact, and I have my own personal involvement as of day one, many years ago. So the development of it has always been a top interest to me.
> 
> So if you do not like it, simply look the other way and ignore the posts on it.
> 
> Chris R.


If anyone knows the approximate date when doomsday will occur please let me know so I can arrange for my extended vacation.

----------


## Uncle Fester

> If anyone knows the approximate date when doomsday will occur please let me know so I can arrange for my extended vacation.


September 27, 2024. The day after I plan to retire.

----------


## Steve Machol

Can everyone please stop with the personal attacks and snide comments?  Thank you.

----------


## Don Gilman

> Can everyone please stop with the personal attacks and snide comments?  Thank you.


I'm done......sorry.

----------


## Chris Ryser

Now that the storm has passed this most interesting thread on optiBoard, we can hopefully continue a peaceful conversation on its subject, the future of Warby Parker as one of the busiest optical online sellers.

WP is now at a commercial stage wre it could be interesting for any of the corporations that are active in the optical Health Insurance sectors, as well as any of the optical manufacturers that are looking into a fast expansion in the online retail optical sales.

This could be from "United Health" to "VSP", "EyeMed" or "Essilux" direct, as well as any of the other few giant optical manufacturers, that suddenly see an importance to join this new competitive retail market.

We should also not forget the newest and latest internet technology G5, is now advancing fast into reality and some of the biggest changes in every sector will be introduced starting over the next 2 years. How is it going to affect the optical industry............some food for thought.

----------


## Chris Ryser

When are the leftover giants in the optical manufacturing industry, as Zeiss, Rodenstock and Hoya jumping on the bandwagon of online retail opticals?

With the ever heavier competition in that field and Essilux officially stating their intention to heavily widen it, I believe that they have no other choice than eventually jumping into the new market situation. The sooner the better for them, or they will loose market share on a world wide basis as Essilux is getting active in many countries in Asia and Africa, even with local government supports..

----------


## Uncle Fester

If Hoya isn't already in bed making the two backed beast with Essilux- it's a sure bet they're spooning!

I think we've discussed extensively how managed care is moving into retail and is also absorbing the big names in lens designers. Meanwhile we independents will roll with the punches and keep playing rope-a-dope to avoid a knock out and continue to thrive in our niche.

----------


## Trina

> If Hoya isn't already in bed making the two backed beast with Essilux- it's a sure bet they're spooning!
> 
> I think we've discussed extensively how managed care is moving into retail and is also absorbing the big names in lens designers. Meanwhile we independents will roll with the punches and keep playing rope-a-dope to avoid a knock out and continue to thrive in our niche.


What exactly do you mean by "rope-a-dope"?

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *I think we've discussed extensively how managed care is moving into retail and is also absorbing the big names in lens designers. Meanwhile we independents will roll with the punches and keep playing rope-a-dope to avoid a knock out and continue to thrive in our niche.*



................your big name in lens designs had a past that was a technical type and design of a lens, without any designer name hooked on to it, to which you can make a future customer drool just thinking about it, because he just adores that styling and all the extras that come or go with it.

Your designer frames are not even born by the same mother and family. They are chosen by some reseller and named by somebodies name, that attracts fashion conscious people because of a famous name and that collects a fee from it.

The only difference a designer product has from another one, is that the name can command a higher or lower fee for each product sold, and has nothing to do with quality and or the looks.

Quality and pricing is now depending on how valuable the name is, not the quality nor the original manufacturer.

----------


## Chris Ryser

................furthermore to add to the above:


Designer names are added as per order instructions and the same frame can still be on the market under other names if not an exclusivity deal has been arranged, which requires large quantity orders,

----------


## drk

> What exactly do you mean by "rope-a-dope"?


Fester is really Don King.

----------


## Kwill212

> Fester is really Don King.


 Careful Drk. Steve said no more name calling.

----------


## Uncle Fester

> What exactly do you mean by "rope-a-dope"?


I thought every optician knew this saying.  :Wink: 

From Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope-a-dope

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *........................................ we independents will roll with the punches and keep playing rope-a-dope to avoid a knock out and continue to thrive in our niche.*



.............would you mind to explain how you propose doing all that ?

----------


## Golfnorth

> ................your big name in lens designs had a past that was a technical type and design of a lens, without any designer name hooked on to it, to which you can make a future customer drool just thinking about it, because he just adores that styling and all the extras that come or go with it.
> 
> Your designer frames are not even born by the same mother and family. They are chosen by some reseller and named by somebodies name, that attracts fashion conscious people because of a famous name and that collects a fee from it.
> 
> The only difference a designer product has from another one, is that the name can command a higher or lower fee for each product sold, and has nothing to do with quality and or the looks.
> 
> Quality and pricing is now depending on how valuable the name is, not the quality nor the original manufacturer.


Chris I would like to add one thing. Pricing would also be dependent of the perceived value of the designer name on the frame.
Many consumers feel better purchasing a name than a no name brand of eyewear.

Regards,
Golfnorth

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Chris I would like to add one thing. Pricing would also be dependent of the perceived value of the designer name on the frame.
> **Many consumers feel better purchasing a name than a no name brand of eyewear.*




Good idea..........................you can even invent a designer name and make it your own brand, as long as you register it with the government, and you will not have to pay for a licensee fee.

----------


## Golfnorth

> Good idea..........................you can even invent a designer name and make it your own brand, as long as you register it with the government, and you will not have to pay for a licensee fee.


Of course you can invent a name and call it designer but most consumers I would think would rather purchase a Calvin Klein frame (a name that they have seen and bought before in cologne or clothing) than a name that someone made up.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Of course you can invent a name and call it designer but most consumers I would think would rather purchase a Calvin Klein frame (a name that they have seen and bought before in cologne or clothing) than a name that someone made up.
> *



You are totally correct. However that trademark has been used in many fields for years in cosmetics and fashion. 
But then you will have to charge and pay a high fee for it, included in the frame price to somebody else.

.........................this is all up to you, how you want to handle it, and how long the project would go on. If you own a designer name it could become a permanent institution.

----------


## jefe

> We did? When? Because Lensmanmd (no offence) said so? It's all just opinion, including my own. However, the only real opinion that matters is that of the purchaser anyway. Just because you couldn't pay me to sell those frames, doesn't mean and end user can't find them perfectly acceptable and extremely valuable. The same can be said about people who wouldn't be caught dead wearing a WP frame and will only purchase independent brands made with top of the line materials, craftsmanship, and lenses. It's almost as if there is a wide gamut of consumers who have differing opinions on what they want. The smart optician will pick a segment they can be successful in, and service that segment. McDonald's doesn't care what Ruth's Chris is doing, and vice versa. But, if as a small business you try to wade into the shallow end of the pool with the big fish with endless pockets, you are going to get eaten alive.


The WP frames look nice, but the zyl they use seems to go out of adjustment with a minimal amount of heat.  The temples seem to be very long.  I'm not a fan of their stuff.

----------


## King of the Lab

Distinctly debonair.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *The WP frames look nice, but the zyl they use seems to go out of adjustment with a minimal amount of heat.  The temples seem to be very long.  I'm not a fan of their stuff.
> *



You can not generalize ...........................WP must be on the know how on the quality they are buying and selling. The plastic sheets that are used to make frames, require at least 12 month of storage before you can work with it, and if a manufacturer 
 suddenly gets more orders than he can handle they are tempted to use plastic sheets that are not ready for further processing.

I bet you all the tea China that WP has not ordered any more frames from the company that sent them the faulty stuff.

----------


## jefe

> You can not generalize ...........................WP must be on the know how on the quality they are buying and selling. The plastic sheets that are used to make frames, require at least 12 month of storage before you can work with it, and if a manufacturer 
>  suddenly gets more orders than he can handle they are tempted to use plastic sheets that are not ready for further processing.
> 
> I bet you all the tea China that WP has not ordered any more frames from the company that sent them the faulty stuff.


I dunno.  A lot of them seem to be about the same.

----------


## Trina

> I thought every optician knew this saying. 
> 
> From Wiki:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope-a-dope


Ohhhhhh! I'd never heard that before. Thanks!

----------


## kittyeyes

Interested to hear what your office's policy is when someone asks you for a pd or free frame adjustment?

----------


## kittyeyes

Interested to hear what your office policy is when someone comes in for a pd or adjustment of in-the-box Warby frames?

----------


## Uncle Fester

Use search to see many replies to your question kittyeyes.

----------


## tmorse

> You can not generalize ...........................WP must be on the know how on the quality they are buying and selling. The plastic sheets that are used to make frames, require at least 12 month of storage before you can work with it, and if a manufacturer 
>  suddenly gets more orders than he can handle they are tempted to use plastic sheets that are not ready for further processing.
> 
> I bet you all the tea China that WP has not ordered any more frames from the company that sent them the faulty stuff.


I recall a premium frame rep telling me that their company lets the sheets sit for a minimum 2-years before subjecting them to the pantograph process. It helps explain the premium price and quality of the frames.

----------

