# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  walmart custom progressive

## bmm

Anyone know what new custom progressive Walmart is selling. Had a patient take prescription to local walmart said she had to look in a machine to take exact measurements and the lenses were several hundred dollars. She stated it wasn't any deal in all her glasses were 600.00 but she says she can see better then any pair of PAL's she has had.

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## DocInChina

> Anyone know what new custom progressive Walmart is selling. Had a patient take prescription to local walmart said she had to look in a machine to take exact measurements and the lenses were several hundred dollars. She stated it wasn't any deal in all her glasses were 600.00 but she says she can see better then any pair of PAL's she has had.


It sounds like the IZON progressive lens once you mentioned the patient had to look into a machine to take exact measurements.

Doc

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## LENNY

IZON=WALMART:bbg: :hammer:

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## gemstone

probly XL they got a good bulk deal on a bunch of sola surplus.   The machine is just smoke and mirrors.

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## Fezz

Do they break out the head calibers to see what size frame you need too?


Oh Magoo(Walmart),..you've done it again.

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## Alan W

It's the Wong Kan Tse Progressive!
Wally World is getting everything from China.

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## DocInChina

> It's the Wong Kan Tse Progressive!
> Wally World is getting everything from China.


Do you think only Wally World is getting everything from China? Read through all the other threads and you will see alot of Safilo, Marchon and Lux product is being manufactured in China too as well as famous lens manufacturers. SOLA has a 5000 job per day surface lens factory in China for the sole purpose of export. 

Doc

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## LENNY

> probly XL they got a good bulk deal on a bunch of sola surplus. The machine is just smoke and mirrors.


XL is cheap for the last few years!
Must be some new dump!

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## AWTECH

Everyone seems to assume Walmart is only offering leftovers, overstocks or some sub standard made in China product.  

I am not a Walmart fan, just realistic about their position in the market place.  They have tremendous buying power and I know they were offering an Essilor freeform product via Walmart with a PAL suggested retail price higher than most independants sell PAL lenses.

The device the patient is refering to maybe a pupilometer for checking PD.

I think their current limitation for Walmart with such a product is that Individualized freeform lenses require excellent product knowledge to be able to convince the patient why they should pay more.

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## sillygoat@outdrs.n

;-)   Smoke & mirrors, head calipers, mystery machines...
                                                      ever hear of a pupilometer?
I'd say the optician did a great job educating the patient!
Exact measurements,
Better optics;
the real  tragedy is that no one had ever offered  a superior product and explained the importance of accurate measurements to her before! 

Maybe some of you should visit your local Wal-Mart Vision Center and check out the lens mat on the tables...while you're there, check out the frame selection. There are many frames by the same manufacturers that you sell at half the price!

Oh, by the way, the most that lady paid for that pair of glasses was $503.  That includes a top brand titanium 3-pc mount frame with high-end lens material and premium ARC.  Wal-Mart wrote the book on power buying.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em

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## Chris Ryser

> *Do you think only Wally World is getting everything from China? Read through all the other threads and you will see alot of Safilo, Marchon and Lux product is being manufactured in China too as well as famous lens manufacturers. SOLA has a 5000 job per day surface lens factory in China for the sole purpose of export.* 
> Doc


Doc you are right..........

Nobody has any production here anymore in lenses, with the exception of poly, which is an automatic molding process.

*The only difference is that the brand name products high end or low end have never been sold for LESS, even that the production cost are a fraction of before.   :finger:*

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## Ory

> Anyone know what new custom progressive Walmart is selling. Had a patient take prescription to local walmart said she had to look in a machine to take exact measurements and the lenses were several hundred dollars. She stated it wasn't any deal in all her glasses were 600.00 but she says she can see better then any pair of PAL's she has had.


Ask her to look at the lenses and check the laser marks.  It may be an Ipseo, Izon, or smoke and mirrors.  The type of PAL will let you know for sure.

Or go in to Walmart and act dumb, talking about these great lenses your friend received.  They may show you the machine they used.

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## MarcE

> I know they were offering an Essilor freeform product via Walmart with a PAL suggested retail price higher than most independants sell PAL lenses.


Let's see . . . As far as I know Essilor doesn't offer a freeform product under the Essilor brand name.  And according to my friendly Essilor rep, the retail establishments "can't get the Varilux brand from Essilor".  So what is the specific lens that they are selling?  Is it branded Essilor or Varilux or Zeiss or SOLA?  Maybe sillygoat knows.
This is what I think I know:  
It's not an Ipseo.
The 'machine' was a vision tester or a pupilometer.
WM calls this upscale lens a "custom-Vue" or something like it and it's about $100 more than the reqular PAL (normally Ovation).

btw, It looks like the retail outlets will soon be able to get the Physio branded as an Essilor Accolade.  Again, it's what I think I know.

I have to go to WM today for non-premium-branded diapers so I will ask about the upscale PAL and report back to you tonight.

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## For-Life

> btw, It looks like the retail outlets will soon be able to get the Physio branded as an Essilor Accolade. Again, it's what I think I know.
> 
> I have to go to WM today for non-premium-branded diapers so I will ask about the upscale PAL and report back to you tonight.


I think the Accolade is just a lens for the far east.  Probably renaming the Physio due to product positioning and such with different markets.  Similar to how the Crizal Sun is call the Xelios in Canada.

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## MarcE

> I think the Accolade is just a lens for the far east. Probably renaming the Physio due to product positioning and such with different markets. Similar to how the Crizal Sun is call the Xelios in Canada.


Nope. It's Coming to an ELOA (and Wal-Mart) near you next month. There was a four page fold-out in Eyecare Business this month (US version).

I went to my local WM vision center and this is now what I know that I know. The premium PAL is called "Nikon Eyes". They claim that it is customized for your vision with a 20&#37; wider clear field of vision. It only comes in 1.67 with "AST" AR included for $389. That is $114 more than the regular PAL in 1.67 w/ normal AR (which is a Seiko Proceed). MFH is 15mm. Soon to be available in Poly. There is no special machine that the tech knew about, so it must have been a pupilometer or vision screener. The tech also said that it hasn't been taking any longer than regular lenses to get back from the lab. They didn't have a lens available so I didn't get to look at any markings. 
What do you think the lens is? 
Does WM have their own freeform generator at their lab?
Is is freeform generated by ELOA?
Is it a freeform at all or is it a Physio/GT2 type product

I sure am glad that the "Premium" Essilor products are only available to us independents. (In case you can't see my face, that was a sarcastic remark)

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## Chris Ryser

> *I sure am glad that the "Premium" Essilor products are only available to us independents. (In case you can't see my face, that was a sarcastic remark)*


I am so glad that you guy's still believe in Santa Claus. 

They have so many different versions of the same thing that they can cofuse all of you. What is premium here may well be low class in Hong Kong and middle class in Europe. The more versions they have the more they can play around and give specials at rock bottom prices to large customers. (also sarcastic remark and I agree with Marc)

 :Eek:    :D

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## Alan W

Should we tell em where Essilor gets some of its lens designs? As far as I can tell from "sources" (actually a relative I never knew I had) who also flies around shooting at Hezbalah dudes in his free time, it ain't all French!

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## karen

Well, my dad (who is an OD) just left Walmart to go BACK out into private practice and I think it is safe to say it depends on the Walmart as to how educated the staff is.  He called me to ask what progressives they dispensed because no one in the Vision Center who was an employee could answer him when he asked.

Here's the thing guys, it doesn't really matter so much whose lens it is or where they are getting it from.  Accolade, Ovation, Symphony, MVP, Cucaracha, whatever....what matters is that it is fit well and is a decent design.  If those things are true then we have nothing to do but make sure we are doing that at least as well as they are at WM.  They are more retail minded-it does not offend then to sell.  In all fairness they may sell something the patient doesn't need but when the industry average of AR is 20&#37; and they sell 70% I think it is fair to say that there is something to learn from that.  I would be interested to know how many folks who left WM felt they got something they didn't need.  It is our professional resposibility to educate the patient on all the options.  They can chose whether they want to invest in them or not but offer it for goodness sake, what have you got to lose?  If you don't tell them about hi index, transitions, AR and the like I can PROMISE you the people at Walmart, Sams Club, Lenscrafters etc will...they get spiffed on it.  If you think about it the PD is pretty dang improtant, guess that optician made that pupilometer sound like a miracle machine.

If those places are outselling us it is only because we are letting them.

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## m0002a

> Well, my dad (who is an OD) just left Walmart to go BACK out into private practice and I think it is safe to say it depends on the Walmart as to how educated the staff is. He called me to ask what progressives they dispensed because no one in the Vision Center who was an employee could answer him when he asked.


There is usually only one knowledgeable optician at a given Walmat, and they are not always on-duty. The other people who work there are basically sales clerks. Not much different than other chain stores, and better than many (many chains don't have any knowledgeable opticians).

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## MarcE

> There is usually only one knowledgeable optician at a given Walmat, and they are not always on-duty. The other people who work there are basically sales clerks. Not much different than other chain stores, and better than many (many chains don't have any knowledgeable opticians).


As it's been said before, depends on where you are.  Our WM has NO knowledgable sales clerks.  And no opticians at all.  Yea for us!

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## rinselberg

> I went to my local WM vision center and this is now what I know that I know. The premium PAL is called "Nikon Eyes". They claim that it is customized for your vision with a 20% wider clear field of vision. It only comes in 1.67 with "AST" AR included for $389. That is $114 more than the regular PAL in 1.67 w/ normal AR (which is a Seiko Proceed). MFH is 15mm. Soon to be available in Poly. There is no special machine that the tech knew about, so it must have been a pupilometer or vision screener. The tech also said that it hasn't been taking any longer than regular lenses to get back from the lab. They didn't have a lens available so I didn't get to look at any markings.


http://www.nikoneyes.com/frames.htm

Does the info on this "Nikon Eyes" website square with what is known about this Walmart lens?

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## m0002a

> As it's been said before, depends on where you are. Our WM has NO knowledgable sales clerks. And no opticians at all. Yea for us!


I don't think that is accurate. I think that every Walmart store has at least one reasonably knowledgeable optician, but they are not on-duty at all times.

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## OptiChick21

So how can Wal-Mart call a lens "customized", when nothing at all has been measured from the patient, that isnt already measured on regular PALs?? (I dont think taking a Mono PD makes your lenses custom!) 
I guess thats why when our office sells the Ipseo lens, we often say personalized... no other lens we sell requires this extra measurement that is used to "customize" your very own lenses.  

And even if Wal-Mart is at 70% AR sell through, I dont think it's right to sell anyone who's willing a product thats not even good quality.  I bet their AR cracks, crazes and scratches long before my Alize.  I havent had any glasses from Wal-Mart myself, but I've had plenty of patients tell me they'll never return there after their glasses fell apart & their lenses were crap.

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## Audiyoda

> http://www.nikoneyes.com/frames.htm
> 
> Does the info on this "Nikon Eyes" website square with what is known about this Walmart lens?


If it is the new Nikon PAL made at the *Essilor* Avista lab then it's nothing more than a Definity that's been tweaked to be more knuckhead-fitter friendly (just like the Panamic was modified to the Ovation for mass-market and the Physio/Physio360 has been modified to the Accolade/Accolade Freedom).

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## karen

> And even if Wal-Mart is at 70% AR sell through, I dont think it's right to sell anyone who's willing a product thats not even good quality.  I bet their AR cracks, crazes and scratches long before my Alize.  I havent had any glasses from Wal-Mart myself, but I've had plenty of patients tell me they'll never return there after their glasses fell apart & their lenses were crap.


Agreed.  My mom's first hand experience with their AR is that is sucks. I'm not saying their product is better (I don't think it is) but I am also of the opinion that most everybody could benefit from AR and it seems that lots of folk in the independent private side of Optometry are either still not being offered it or don't understand the benefits, hence the about 23% number.  Rumor has it that they merely ask "would you like your lenses with or without glare" over there at WM.  Now that opens up a whole separate can of worms because there are several types of glare and that is obviously not the most educated way to present the product but I think more than 23% could benefit from AR.  Maybe not 70%..although honestly unless they are sandblasters or painting houses in high wind (and they still need it on their "dress up" pair) why not??

I guess for me what it really boils down to is we can sit around and talk smack about WM and the like or we can try to  be better educated, outservice and outperform them and then they can whine about how we are stealing their patients and making more money in the process with better lenses, frames and coatings.  See, the next time a patient walks in and says "they have this customized progressive at WM"  we can dazzle them with the options that we have that are TRULY customized.  In a current frame with an exceptionally high quality AR.  Fitted by a licensed dispensing optician that doesn't have to go out and restock the detergent aisles when it gets slow.  We should know what they have and what we have that is better.  Or if it isn't better than be better at taking care of them and making sure their visual needs are met.

jumping down of my soapbox now....

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## For-Life

Not only that, but a lot of independents offer junk AR to try to compete with Wal-Mart.

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## m0002a

> So how can Wal-Mart call a lens "customized", when nothing at all has been measured from the patient, that isnt already measured on regular PALs?? (I dont think taking a Mono PD makes your lenses custom!) 
> I guess thats why when our office sells the Ipseo lens, we often say personalized... no other lens we sell requires this extra measurement that is used to "customize" your very own lenses. 
> 
> And even if Wal-Mart is at 70&#37; AR sell through, I dont think it's right to sell anyone who's willing a product thats not even good quality. I bet their AR cracks, crazes and scratches long before my Alize. I havent had any glasses from Wal-Mart myself, but I've had plenty of patients tell me they'll never return there after their glasses fell apart & their lenses were crap.


Some individual lenses like the Hoya Id only require a PD and fitting height (they can use defaults for other optional measurements). I am not saying that the Nikon Customized is like the Hoya Id, but until someone positively identifies what the Nikon Customized really is, then I don’t think we can criticize it. At $389 for 1.67 and factory AR, it is not cheap by Walmart standards (they sell the Seiko Proceed II/III for $275 for 1.67 with factory AR)

I don't know what you mean by "their" AR? Many of the progressive lenses they sell (Seiko Proceed II and II, Nikon Eyes Customized, etc) have AR that is applied by Seiko or Nikon respectively. In fact, if the Nikon Customized is really an Essilor Definity as suggested in another post, then it may be Crizal Alize.

Walmart seems to offer name brand quality frames that are clearly identified by the brand tags (unlike most Lenscrafters frames), although some of cheap ones are probably not particularly durable. Their frame selection is not large, but they had a number of frames that sell for about $115 that looked quite good (I recall seeing a number of Nikon frames and other brand names).

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## MarcE

I'm not critisizing WM at all.  I am completely miffed (not able to use a strong enough word here) at Essilor for selling WM a premium lens  that they say is reserved for independents.  They are about 20 days from selling a Physio to WM (named Accolade) and all the others.  As far as I know, it may be a P360.  And they may be selling it right now as the Nikon Eyes. 

The truth is that Essilor doesn't cater to or serve or provide any name-brand value to independents.  They use independents to fund their research and development.  Once the new lens design is paid for by overcharging independents, they can afford to sell it to retail for what it is actually worth.  Essilor is smart.  They have found a way to NOT amortize the development costs of a product over the projected life.  Their "favorite" customers pay the development costs quickly (in the case of Physio it apparently took about 18 months), then they make obsene amounts of $ on mass retail markets.

Varilux is a four-letter word in our dispensary.  If a patient says they want Varilux; we respond something like this:  Varilux is the Cadillac of progressive lenses, it is high quality and had been around a while.  However the new lens designs are the Lexus of lenses.  Would you rather have the Cadillac or Lexus.  By the way, the Lexus is less expensive.

I don't sell Varilux for the same reason I don't sell Luxottica.  I don't want my $ subsidizing the competition.

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## m0002a

For good or bad, Walmart is the 800 lb gorilla in retail. There is not any manufacturer who will refuse to sell to Walmart (in any retail segment). They may change the model name so as to not direct compete against other retailers, but everyone will sell to Walmart if they have a chance.

The only good news is that someday (and that day almost always comes) Walmart will push optical goods from other manufacturers, and Essilor will take a big hit.

I think that Essilor struck a real coup with obtaining the rights to the Nikon brand name in the US for vision products. The Nikon name in photographic cameras and lenses is legendary in the US (especially among older patients who wear progressives). So they can just take one of their other products, call it a Nikon, and it will fly out the door when picked up by a mass merchandiser like Walmart.

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## m0002a

> If it is the new Nikon PAL made at the *Essilor* Avista lab then it's nothing more than a Definity that's been tweaked to be more knuckhead-fitter friendly (just like the Panamic was modified to the Ovation for mass-market and the Physio/Physio360 has been modified to the Accolade/Accolade Freedom).


I talked to the buyer of ophthalmic products for Walmart, and he said the Nikon Eyes Customized lens is not made in the Walmart optical lab, and each order is sent by computer from the Walmart store directly to the Avisia lab in Dallas owned by Essilor. He said the lens is an Essilor Accolade Freedom, which is the Essilor version of the Varilux Physio 360 (I suggested Physio and he specifically said it was the like the Physio 360 because it surfaced on both sides). 

Considering that Walmart charges $389 for the Nikon Eyes Customized lenses (1.67 with AR), then what he says sounds reasonable (they sell the Seiko Proceed II/III 1.67 with AR for $275).

The Walmart buyer told me that the Nikon Eyes lens mentioned on the www.nikoneyes.com website is not the Accolade Freedom. (Website seems to be unavailable at the moment).

I forgot to ask the buyer if the Nikon Eyes Customized comes standard with Crizal Alize like the Physio 360. But AR is included, and whatever AR is on the Nikon Eyes Customized is applied by the Essilor Avisia lab.

Regarding the term “customized” when referring to the Nikon Eyes Customized (or Accolade Freedom), the Walmart buyer said it is just a term to separate it from the regular Nikon Eyes lens. They buyer described the digital surfacing technology used on front and back surface like the Physio 360.

As most people know, Essilor owns the marketing and brand name for Nikon in the USA, and Nikon lenses sold in the USA are basically Essilor lenses (unlike the real Nikon lenses sold in Japan and elsewhere).

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## MarcE

A P360 with Alize supplied by your neighborhood Wal-Mart.  

Wal-Mart is the country's largest Jeweler
Wal-Mart is the country's largest grocer
Wal-Mart is the country's largest film developer
Wal-Mart is the country's largest real-estate developer
Do you think they have plans to be the largest optical chain?

Forget LC/Pearl/Sears.  They won't touch a city of less than 25,000 people.  Wal-Mart's goal is to have a store in every town larger than 5000 people.  Anybody think Wal-Mart might be your competition in the near future?

Anybody feel like they are competing AGAINST Essilor?

I do.

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## m0002a

> A P360 with Alize supplied by your neighborhood Wal-Mart. 
> 
> Wal-Mart is the country's largest Jeweler
> Wal-Mart is the country's largest grocer
> Wal-Mart is the country's largest film developer
> Wal-Mart is the country's largest real-estate developer
> Do you think they have plans to be the largest optical chain?
> 
> Forget LC/Pearl/Sears. They won't touch a city of less than 25,000 people. Wal-Mart's goal is to have a store in every town larger than 5000 people. Anybody think Wal-Mart might be your competition in the near future?
> ...


There is a format war brewing for the next generation of DVD's that will exploit the capabilities of high definition TV. One format is called HD-DVD and the competing format is called Blu-Ray.

When asked which format will win the format war, one analyst said it will likely be decided by Walmart, the largest retailer of DVD's in the world.

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## Cherry Optical

> It's the Wong Kan Tse Progressive!
> Wally World is getting everything from China.


China you figure?  Hmmm....  

Adam

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## Cherry Optical

> Anybody feel like they are competing AGAINST Essilor?
> 
> I do.


I know, for a fact, that they are not competing with Essilor.  Trust me on this one, Walmart will not be getting into the lens manufacturing business.  I believe they have even closed or completed outsourced the manufacturing of lenses.

Walmart doesn't make products, they sell them.

Adam

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## lilchiken

You guys are funny LOL...I enjoy reading these things so thanks for the laughs! 
I think that there are definately things to be learned from these big optical chains. They are the ones pushing the a/r, and uncovering the  needs of  the patients which is what we as opticians should be doing. 
I forget the lens, but there is one lens that needs a special tool in the doctors office that measures the patient for the lenses. Can anybody hep me out...what lens is it?

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## MarcE

> I know, for a fact, that they are not competing with Essilor. Trust me on this one, Walmart will not be getting into the lens manufacturing business. I believe they have even closed or completed outsourced the manufacturing of lenses.
> 
> Walmart doesn't make products, they sell them.
> 
> Adam


My point was that I am competing against Essilor (supposed to be my partner, according to my rep), not Wal-Mart competing against Essilor.

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## rinselberg

> I forget the lens, but there is one lens that needs a special tool in the doctors office that measures the patient for the lenses. Can anybody help me out?


Right off the top of my head, a couple of possibilities. The *iZon High Resolution Lenses* (SV or just of late, the progressive version) require that the patient have an aberrometer refraction - whether that would be complemented with a standard refraction or stand on its own - I don't know about that. That's beyond my scope - or over my head.

The *Varilux Ipseo* (progressive) requires that the patient undergo a test with the VisionPrint instrument to determine where they fall on a curve of head movement vs. eye movement, as far as their tendency or characteristic when they redirect their focus onto something that has appeared in their peripheral field of vision.

I expect there are other lenses that require something special in the way of tools or instrumentation, but these are the two that I read about.

Do you have a deft hand with Internet search engines like Google?

"The answers are out there" ...



_DragonLensmanWV is just the latest OptiBoard member to relive the zany years of the Reagan presidency by visiting Theirs is a scandal that deserves to be told ... Is it your turn?_

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## OptiChick21

> I don't know what you mean by "their" AR? In fact, if the Nikon Customized is really an Essilor Definity as suggested in another post, then it may be Crizal Alize.


I mean "Wal-Mart's" AR, whatever it may be... I mean look at all of us here wondering what the heck it is that they use for lenses and add-ons, etc... obviously brand names of the specific lens products they use are not made known to their patients or the public by Walmart. (otherwise, we'd already know it was Nikon or whoever and we wouldnt be speculating altogether)

I know Walmart does not offer Varilux products, just their own puny Essilor versions, which I feel very confident do not match up to Varilux quality.  And NO OTHER lenses use the WAVEFRONT correction that both the Varilix Physio and Ipseo offer.  None.  I'm happy to tell my patients this.

I also am VERY confident WalMart does not get Crizal Alize... it may be a similar version, but it just ain't the same. ;)

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## Cherry Optical

> My point was that I am competing against Essilor (supposed to be my partner, according to my rep), not Wal-Mart competing against Essilor.


O.  My bad.  

I have seen examples of where Essilor will 'manage' an Indepedent's operations.  So I know for a fact that they are competing directly with other Indepedents in some market areas.  That I would consider to be a more alarming issue than what chain they selling lenses to.

In the end we must remember that Essilor is a publicly owned company that makes and sells lenses.  They have to do whatever they can to sell more and make more to be sure the stock holders are happy.  If its Walmart, Costco, or your Indepedent practice, it makes no difference to the stock holders and board of directors.  "Just sell lenses, stupid" is their motto. :Eek:  

Adam

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## MarySue

Could it be the Carl Zeiss Individual?  http://www.zeiss.com/4125680f0053a38...2571ce003012f9  That link will take you to the machine that helps with the fitting.  The patient wears a rubber frame over their own and is photographed.  The markings on the rubber frame give the computer a ref point for BVC, Pantoscopic Tilt, PD etc.  You then insert the details, customise the near zone and tadah ... done.  The machine prints the order bang you're done.

I however, find the Hoya ID the best progressive lens yet.  I've worn it for two and a half years and don't want my prescription to change --- because it is such an incredible lens.  Next in line for my personal preference to wear ... Physio 360 or SolaOne Ego ... they seem identical in performance, clarity, etc.

Mary Sue

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## MarcE

> I know Walmart does not offer Varilux products, just their own puny Essilor versions, which I feel very confident do not match up to Varilux quality. And NO OTHER lenses use the WAVEFRONT correction that both the Varilix Physio and Ipseo offer. None. I'm happy to tell my patients this.;)


I thought we just established that WM IS getting a "wavefront" corrected lens. You too can get a "Essilor" branded "wavefront" corrected lens like WM.  It's called Accolade Freedom. Don't think you as an independent are more special to Essilor than a 10,000 pr/week customer just because your Essilor rep tells you so.  Please don't mislead your patients like your rep misled you.
There are other lenses using freeform or "wavefront" correction:
Hoya iD
Kodak unique
Multigressiv
Zeiss Individual
Seiko Succeed
Shamir Autograph
and maybe others.
Indo just released one this month

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## MarcE

Since I was very blunt in that last post,let me explain my views.  I don't care who Essilor sells lenses to.  Business is business.  It makes me mad that the Varilux reps deceive their customers by telling them that they are getting something special that the chains can't get.  Maybe the chains are geting something better.  Their new custom progressive can be fit as low as 15mm.  Your P360 can't.

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## Jacqui

Be blunt !!!! Essilor and Walmart need to go anyway !!! They are becoming totally obnoxious !!!

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## karen

> I also am VERY confident WalMart does not get Crizal Alize... it may be a similar version, but it just ain't the same. ;)



Wal Mart bought their AR equipment from Zeiss......

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## MarcE

> Wal Mart bought their AR equipment from Zeiss......


That is in Bentonville,AR.
But their freeform lens is generated *& coated* in the essilor lab in Dallas.  The lab that processes P360.  I'm not sure that they can do anything except Crizal

With every post I feel a few more lightbulbs going off (maybe just wishful thinking)

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## Fezz

> With every post I feel a few more lightbulbs going off (maybe just wishful thinking)



The truth is spreading!!!!

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## m0002a

> That is in Bentonville,AR.
> But their freeform lens is generated *& coated* in the essilor lab in Dallas. The lab that processes P360. I'm not sure that they can do anything except Crizal
> 
> With every post I feel a few more lightbulbs going off (maybe just wishful thinking)


I don't think that the Walmart lab is in Bentonville,AR, but you are correct that the Nikon CustomEyes (Essilor Accolade Freedom) is generated and finished in the Essilor Avisia Lab in Dallas.

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## lilchiken

Thanks rinselberg-it may be the ipseo I just don't remember. I think that the Varilux Physio 360 is a GREAT lens-I wore it for awhile. But the panamic is a great lens, also-I 've been wearing it for awhile and its not very different at all from the physio360.

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## Jubilee

> I don't think that the Walmart lab is in Bentonville,AR, but you are correct that the Nikon CustomEyes (Essilor Accolade Freedom) is generated and finished in the Essilor Avisia Lab in Dallas.


I don't know of a Walmart lab in Bentonville, but there is one in Crawfordsville, IN =)

Amused me for the longest time that they didn't have an optical department in the local WM, but had the lab just outside of town. Now with the "new" store (a whopping half mile from the old one) they have space for the grocery and optical departments.

Cassandra

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## OptiChick21

> Since I was very blunt in that last post,let me explain my views. I don't care who Essilor sells lenses to. Business is business. It makes me mad that the Varilux reps deceive their customers by telling them that they are getting something special that the chains can't get. Maybe the chains are geting something better. Their new custom progressive can be fit as low as 15mm. Your P360 can't.


A little blunt and bitter sounding, yes. I suppose you work for a chain then? There's no need to be mad at us, the employees of the private practices, be mad at the reps then! They feed us this information, who else are we supposed to believe? 

I think all reps are this way. They live to tell you their product is the best and nothing else compares... I guess you just have to weed out the info and believe who you want. Learn from your own experience with each lens.

No, the Physio 360 isnt meant to be fit at 15mm, but it's not a custom lens either. The Ipseo is our custom lens, and it can be fit at 14mm actually. We dont even use the 360, if it's not Ipseo, then it's probably a Physio.

I somehow just cant believe either that the chains are getting something better. Why mass produce and sell something that's "the best" at the lowest price? I would never assume that a shoe from Walmart was as good as one sold in a high end boutique, handmade in italy for 5 times the cost... The walmart shoe may good enough for now, but there's no doubt in my mind the high end shoe will last much longer...

I believe that often times, you get what you pay for.

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## m0002a

> I somehow just cant believe either that the chains are getting something better. Why mass produce and sell something that's "the best" at the lowest price? I would never assume that a shoe from Walmart was as good as one sold in a high end boutique, handmade in italy for 5 times the cost... The walmart shoe may good enough for now, but there's no doubt in my mind the high end shoe will last much longer...
> 
> I believe that often times, you get what you pay for.


Certainly, Walmart does have its own branded products, and they usually are not "high-end."

However, Walmart does sell a lot of name-brand products, and because of their efficiency and scale, they often can sell them for less than most other retailers.

Wallmart sells the Essilor Accolade Freedom (sold as Nikon Eyes Customized) for $389. It is what it is.

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## OptiChick21

I dunno if we're allowed to be putting prices on here, but does that $389 include a frame too?  Anti-reflective systematically included I assume??

We sell our Varilux Ipseo lens with Alize w/ ClearGuard for $380, but this does not include a frame.  If it were me, I would prefer ours...

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## Chris Ryser

> *The Ipseo is our custom lens, and it can be fit at 14mm actually.*
> 
> * The WalMarts shoe may good enough for now, but there's no doubt in my mind the high end shoe will last much longer...*
> 
> *I believe that often times, you get what you pay for*.


 
Simple mathematics tell you that a a height of 14mm your intermediate is about 4mm and you reading section a bare 10mm.

The intermediate is progressive  from the distance RX to the reading power...............and all spread over 4mm. At an addition of 2.00 you have not even about a 2mm spread to find a point at sharp vision.

Following that you have a reading segment with a depth of 10mm which Will allow you to see about 3 to 4 lines of the width of one column in a classified advertising section. 

I dont think that you should be proud of having and selling 
progressives that fit at 14mm or even less.

*And I believe that patients do NOT get the near vision for what they are paying for.*

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## OptiChick21

I understand what you're saying as I have never felt *any* lens can provide the true reading area needed at such a low seg ht like 14mm!  (Thusly, wal-mart's at 15mm would be hardly better.)  I try my best to fit most patients at 17mm or higher.  But it's nice to know you can go a little lower if desperate, as sometimes the tiny frame they MUST have is all you can do.  You just have to explain to them the compromises.

Plus, we do have some lucky patients with lower Rx's who have faired quite well with PALs fit at 14mm!  It can happen.

We dont promise them the world for their reading room in Ipseo or any other new lenses, "under promise... over deliver."  :Rolleyes:

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## m0002a

> I dunno if we're allowed to be putting prices on here, but does that $389 include a frame too? Anti-reflective systematically included I assume??
> 
> We sell our Varilux Ipseo lens with Alize w/ ClearGuard for $380, but this does not include a frame. If it were me, I would prefer ours...


The price that Walmart charges for the NikonEyes Customized (Essilor Accolade Freedom) has been mentioned elsewhere on this forum. It does not include a frame, but does include AR (presumably Crizal Alize). Walmart only offers it in 1.67 index.

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## MarcE

> A little blunt and bitter sounding, yes. I suppose you work for a chain then? There's no need to be mad at us, the employees of the private practices, be mad at the reps then! 
> 
> I would never assume that a shoe from Walmart was as good as one sold in a high end boutique, handmade in italy for 5 times the cost... The walmart shoe may good enough for now, but there's no doubt in my mind the high end shoe will last much longer...
> 
> I believe that often times, you get what you pay for.


I do not work for a chain and never have.  Varilux products are not the best for my customers or my bottom line.  And I know what my bottom line is because I own the place.

I am a little blunt because you seem to believe what your Varilux rep tells you when the facts say otherwise.

I like to sell things that Wal-Mart doesn't have.  As examples, I sell Nike frames, and I sell Trivex, and Hoya lenses.  If I sell a custom Essilor progressive with a super-slick AR, well it just sounds too much like Wal-Mart's products.

And sometimes you don't get what you pay for, and that's the way I feel about Varilux lenses.

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## OptiChick21

> Walmart only offers it in 1.67 index.


Oh, well that makes more sense.  We would have to add on for the cost of Hi index 1.67.

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## geoflem

hi , i work for wal-mart optical in las vegas and sell a lot of the nikon customized and it is now my lense of choice over the varilux comfort. included in the $389.00 package is uv,ar,a static coating and the 14mm fitting height.
we are also getting a new lense from nikon in april or may that the reps say in a pal cut like a single vision lens in the distance area and 3 to 4 times the size of normal reading area in pals. customized to the frame you choose and of course your fitting measurements and rx for the same price. i can usually sell this lense with a frame for around $450.00/ add $65.oo for transitions.

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## wabmorgan

> Simple mathematics tell you that a a height of 14mm your intermediate is about 4mm and you reading section a bare 10mm.
> 
> The intermediate is progressive from the distance RX to the reading power...............and all spread over 4mm. At an addition of 2.00 you have not even about a 2mm spread to find a point at sharp vision.
> 
> Following that you have a reading segment with a depth of 10mm which Will allow you to see about 3 to 4 lines of the width of one column in a classified advertising section. 
> 
> I dont think that you should be proud of having and selling 
> progressives that fit at 14mm or even less.
> 
> *And I believe that patients do NOT get the near vision for what they are paying for.*


I can't tell you how many times I have TRIED to explain that to people. 

What they also don't tell you is... that 14mm seg is based upon 85% add value, at least in most lenses.

Yeah.... that 14mm seg hgt may work.... but just barely.

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## AdmiralKnight

It amazes me how much Walmart bashing goes on here... now I don't know if it's a different situation in the States than it is in Canada, but locally atleast, every Walmart has atleast 2 opticians, sometimes three. They sell probably about 50/50 namebrand/homebrand frames, and they carry almost the same lenses as well. As for qualified people, my mother, who has been an optician for over 30 years works there, as such I know the calibur of those who work there. Also as such, I get a little heads up when it comes to what they carry etc. Their AR (EZ Clean or Clear or whatever they call it) is Alize re-branded. We rarely have people complaining about the quality of Walmart glasses around here... the worst we get is people wanting something more higher end, wether that be frame or lens.

If you're Canadian, bash Sears. THEY deserve it. I know, because I worked there for three years. Horrible lenses (Ovation is their HIGH END), 90% Lux frames (makes sence, they're owned by Lux) with NO warranty. That's right, none. Believe me, people can do worse than Walmart.

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## HarryChiling

> It amazes me how much Walmart bashing goes on here... now I don't know if it's a different situation in the States than it is in Canada, but locally atleast, every Walmart has atleast 2 opticians, sometimes three. They sell probably about 50/50 namebrand/homebrand frames, and they carry almost the same lenses as well. As for qualified people, my mother, who has been an optician for over 30 years works there, as such I know the calibur of those who work there. Also as such, I get a little heads up when it comes to what they carry etc. Their AR (EZ Clean or Clear or whatever they call it) is Alize re-branded. We rarely have people complaining about the quality of Walmart glasses around here... the worst we get is people wanting something more higher end, wether that be frame or lens.
> 
> If you're Canadian, bash Sears. THEY deserve it. I know, because I worked there for three years. Horrible lenses (Ovation is their HIGH END), 90% Lux frames (makes sence, they're owned by Lux) with NO warranty. That's right, none. Believe me, people can do worse than Walmart.


Different in the states, but you could bash Sears here as well.  The calibur of walmart opticians varies, but for the most part since their pay seems to be on the low end they get the bottom of the barrel employees.  This is from a state with no licensing or regulation for opticians you may find it different in other states.

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## Johns

> i can usually sell this lense with a frame for around $450.00/ add $65.oo for transitions.


Music to my ears!!:bbg::D:cheers::D:cheers::bbg::D

Let's hear it for WM!!

*Lowest* prices _Everyday_!

Can they make it any easier for us?  

(I can sell the same -with the same results, for $329, including the Transitions)

Life is Good...:cheers:

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## optibass

> Different in the states, but you could bash Sears here as well. The calibur of walmart opticians varies, but for the most part since their pay seems to be on the low end they get the bottom of the barrel employees. This is from a state with no licensing or regulation for opticians you may find it different in other states.


Here in Florida WM keeps a lic optician on duty at all times (per state law.) As far as I know they are paying LDO's pretty well, due to demand. (of course it's a trade off, working nights and weekends, and being "beaten down by the man" ) :Rolleyes: (former WMVC manager, can you tell?)
That said, the patient still may get the "tech" who just hired in yesterday with no experience.

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## Chris Ryser

> *We should know what they have and what we have that is better. Or if it isn't better than be better at taking care of them and making sure their visual needs are met.*
> *jumping down of my soapbox now....*


Karen...............continue jumping maybe the soap box will wings and you can convince the Optiboarders at large even better.

*I have received some evidence that 3 of the largest optical corporations are having their progressive lenses made in the same facility in China. A factory with over 15,00 workers apparently supplies a large part of those corporations inventories.*

I am waiting for more details from some inside sources to make a formal announcement which I should have within the next few weeks.

If this would hold up, what is then the difference between all the products offered to retailers.............and what differentiates between Wally and independent or chain stores?

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## Jacqui

> *I have received some evidence that 3 of the largest optical corporations are having their progressive lenses made in the same facility in China. A factory with over 15,00 workers apparently supplies a large part of those corporations inventories.*


Wouldn't surprise me at all. Probably all made with the same molds from the same supplier (no names mentioned).

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## Johns

> *I have received some evidence that 3 of the largest optical corporations are having their progressive lenses made in the same facility in China. A factory with over 15,00 workers apparently supplies a large part of those corporations inventories.*


I wouldn't surprise me either, but are you talking about wholesalers, or retailers?

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## Chris Ryser

> *.......................but are you talking about wholesalers, or retailers*?


As far as I understand the corporations are purchsing there and then resell them under their own brand names down the ladder...............and ending at the retailer.

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## Johns

> As far as I understand the corporations are purchsing there and then resell them under their own brand names down the ladder...............and ending at the retailer.


Well I assumed that anyway...

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## trubs

> Anyone know what new custom progressive Walmart is selling. Had a patient take prescription to local walmart said she had to look in a machine to take exact measurements and the lenses were several hundred dollars. She stated it wasn't any deal in all her glasses were 600.00 but she says she can see better then any pair of PAL's she has had.


It's the new Nikon customized lenses that are digitally surfaced.

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## allanon

It's ok - I wear a size 8 frame :bbg:

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## Dot the Eye

There's some info on this subject posted in a previous thread:
http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...=Nikon+walmart

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## optical24/7

> This buyer was extremely knowledgeable about lenses, 
> 
> The Walmart buyer said the NikonEyes Customized is digitally surfaced on both sides, which is almost verbatim language from the Varilux website description of the Physio 360. 
> Dottie


I'd say the Walmart buyer isn't that smart. *Any* lens that comes in transitions can't be digitally surfaced on _both sides._ Just like the Ipseo, it's a digitally molded front, digitally surfaced back lens.

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## KStraker

I am replacing a fancy lens set from Walmart. It is a Seiko Proceed 1.67 Trans with AR. Her rx is only +1.50 OU with a 2.25 add. She doesn't know what lens she has or why it is high index, or what an AR coating is. Nice sales job there!!!!:hammer:

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## crosseyedwildcat

at least they did last year.  I did some comparative shopping and they had a plastic comfort for around $200

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## vcm

"If you don't tell them about hi index, transitions, AR and the like I can PROMISE you the people at Walmart, Sams Club, Lenscrafters etc will...they get spiffed on it. " :finger:


FYI Wal-Mart and Sams Club Associates are not paid any spiff's. They are hourly associates that are taught to educate the customer. We don't sell discontinued lens products. Our lenses are from Zeiss, Seiko and Esselor just like yours. The AR is Zeiss or on our Nikon lenses it's Crazal. I can't speak for every state we have stores in but I can tell you that here in upstate NY we have at least two licenses in every location and our staff is put on a permit as soon as we can. (Licenses are only allowed to have one permit under them at a time in NYS) In OH Licenses can have three permits under them so all associates are either licensed or on a permit. The only exception would be offices so busy that they hire someone to only do pretesting and I & R teaches.

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## edKENdance

It's still strange to me that Nikon is an Essilor entity in the states.  Our Nikons come with either H, HCC or ICE coatings.

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## ioptic

http://www.i-optic.com/lenses/insiderprices.pdf

http://www.i-optic.com/returnpolicy.pdf

Our links to china made lenses. If you are hard -up - or unable to compete with mass-brands- the hard work of obtaining good quality pals is already done for you. 

rob
-o-o-

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## Jacqui

Australian or US dollars ??

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## JerryR

According to info I have, the Pal is the Essilor Accolade.

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## Johns

> http://www.i-optic.com/lenses/insiderprices.pdf
> 
> http://www.i-optic.com/returnpolicy.pdf
> 
> Our links to china made lenses. If you are hard -up - or unable to compete with mass-brands- the hard work of obtaining good quality pals is already done for you. 
> 
> rob
> -o-o-


 
An ophthalmologist AND an importer?  You're a busy guy.

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## NavyChief

It's comparable to the Accolade and Accolade Freedom.

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## Happylady

> It's comparable to the Accolade and Accolade Freedom.


Is the Accolade basicly the same lens as the Physio?

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## geoflem

i sell that lens all day long it is a nikon custom @1.67, $389/ includes all the coatings except transition.  the lens is actually made by essilor the accolade freedom digital lense.

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## geoflem

http://www.accoladelenses.com/Welcome/index.html

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## jediron1

> It amazes me how much Walmart bashing goes on here... now I don't know if it's a different situation in the States than it is in Canada, but locally atleast, every Walmart has atleast 2 opticians, sometimes three. They sell probably about 50/50 namebrand/homebrand frames, and they carry almost the same lenses as well. As for qualified people, my mother, who has been an optician for over 30 years works there, as such I know the calibur of those who work there. Also as such, I get a little heads up when it comes to what they carry etc. Their AR (EZ Clean or Clear or whatever they call it) is Alize re-branded. We rarely have people complaining about the quality of Walmart glasses around here... the worst we get is people wanting something more higher end, wether that be frame or lens.
> 
> If you're Canadian, bash Sears. THEY deserve it. I know, because I worked there for three years. Horrible lenses (Ovation is their HIGH END), 90% Lux frames (makes sence, they're owned by Lux) with NO warranty. That's right, none. Believe me, people can do worse than Walmart.



AK your right on everything you said about Sears. From friends I have there it's getting worse especially with that ridiculous $69 complete pair, come on. Oh by the way they have been told that their is no $69 glasses only $159. Another words you better not sell that $69 pair or you could be gone. Another lovely day in LC land.  just my take  :Rolleyes:

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