# Conversation and Fun > Just Conversation >  Michael Moore

## Cindy Hamlin

Okay, since no one else has brought it up I will.  I was ashamed of this man at the Oscars last night.  I saw his first documentary "Roger and Me" and was looking forward after some of the press I had read to seeing his new documentary "Bowling for Columbine", but no longer!

I thought his remarks disgraceful and was proud of the Hollywood community for booing him off the stage!  What a knucklehead!

I applaud Matthew McConaghey and the fellow that won the Oscar for their thoughtful remarks and quiet patriotism.  Matthew wore a red, white and blue boutinere and Adrian Brody was elloquent in his comments.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...itics_moore_dc

Also, kudos to Steve Martin for his "being helped into the trunk of his limo by the Teamsters backstage!"

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## Vicki

Cindy, I totally agree with you.  I actually didn't watch the oscars but saw all the coverage this morning.  I thought he acted like a real jerk.  Since 9-11 we are in times where we should all come together for the same goal.

vicki

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## Ray Parent

Sad thing is, by definition of the rules for the category, "Bowling for Columbine" didn't qualify.

A very interesting article about the movie can be read here: 
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

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## EyeManFla

Why anybody takes Michael Moore seriously is beyond me. He has done nothing other than make a career as a professional provocatuer. 

He's just like Spike Lee, all shameless self promotion and hype, but no real talent.

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## Pete Hanlin

In a similar show of crass and pointless behavior, I noted an article on the NYC anti-war protests that have been taking place.  Apparently, some of the protestors thought it "patriotic" to destroy the American flags that were placed on a memorial to the 9-11 victims near the site.  In their place, they posted the words to some anti-war song by Bob Dylan.

I understand that some people have very strong feelings against our invasion of Iraq.  I certainly believe people have the right to voice their protest as well.  However, when demonstrators resort to this kind of behavior, I believe it says something about what kind of people they really are (i.e., angry people who are looking for an excuse to vent anger).  Same goes for the pro-life activist who decides to murder an obstetrician who performs abortions.

I never watch the Oscars, but I did hear that Mr. Moore was booed for his comments- given his audience, that struck me as pleasantly surprising.

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## Darris Chambless

Howdy folks,

Micheal Moore is just doing what he does. Is what he does important? Only to the 2.5 people that actually watch his films. I have seen "Roger and Me" and can honestly say that although intresting in its concept was not worth the $.99 five day rental fee I paid to see it. I'm not defending Micheal Moore because he is indefensible but he always has been and not just for his remarks at the Oscars. If he wants to make films, let him, few people will watch them anyway. If he wants to think he's important then so be it, but personally I don't think he is and that's good enough for me.

Pete,

Give me a holler but not on a cell this time :)

"I understand that some people have very strong feelings against our invasion of Iraq. I certainly believe people have the right to voice their protest as well." 

In regard to the above I wish to point out something that many may have missed with past protests or may be missing now. The war is already underway so protesting lets people know that they disapprove however, it changes nothing. Emphasis on NOTHING :) So they protest for the purpose of protesting. I'm proud to be American and I'm proud of my rights as an American as well as the rights the protestors share with me, BUT I'm even more proud of the fact that I'm not into waisting my time doing things that don't matter ;)

Take care and do give me a call when you have a minute, Pete.

Darris C.

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## hip chic

I've decided to stage an anti-anti-war-demonstator-demonstration.  ha ha

hip chic

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## Jeff Trail

What did anyone expect? This guy makes his living doing films that rail against the so called "norm".. so he got a few people up there with him and those people seemed to feel sand bagged as well from some of the expressions.. how much you want to bet his next "film" has to do with this and this little clip gets placed in it ...I probably figure he does not know how he feels but he sure knows marketing  :Rolleyes: 

   I just go with my wifes reaction..she just rolled her eyes and said "what a dork" :)

Jeff"gee they are just movie people..nothing more nothing less" Trail

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## EyeManFla

Granted this article that was e-mailed to me is a bit long, but it brings up a valid point. There are more people on this Board who are qualified to judge our government than there are people in Hollywierd. Mr. Moore is right about one thing...to a point: Just because your an actor doesn't mean you give up your citizenship....however, just because your an actor doesn't mean your opinion is more important than anybody else. 

Who's Smarter?
by Cindy Osborne

The Hollywood group is at it again.  Holding anti-war rallies, screaming
about the Bush Administration, running ads in major newspapers, defaming the
President and his Cabinet every chance they get, to anyone and everyone who
will listen.  They publicly defile them and call them names like "stupid,"
"morons," and "idiots."  Jessica Lange went so far as to tell a crowd in
Spain that she hates President Bush and is embarrassed to be an American.

So, just how ignorant are these people who are running the country?  Let's
look at the biographies of these "stupid," "ignorant," "moronic" leaders,
and then at the celebrities who are castigating them:

President George W. Bush:
Received a Bachelors Degree from Yale University and an MBA from Harvard
Business School.  He served as an F-102 pilot for the Texas Air National
Guard.  He began his career in the oil and gas business in Midland in 1975
and worked in the energy industry until 1986.  He was elected Governor on
November 8, 1994, with 53.5 percent of the vote.  In a historic re-election
victory, he became the first Texas Governor to be elected to consecutive
four-year terms on November 3, 1998 winning 68.6 percent of the vote.  In
1998 Governor Bush won 49 percent of the Hispanic vote, 27 percent of the
African-American vote, 27 percent of Democrats and 65 percent of women.  He
won more Texas counties, 240 of 254, than any modern Republican other than
Richard Nixon in 1972 and is the first Republican gubernatorial candidate to
win the heavily Hispanic and Democratic border counties of El Paso, Came!
ron and Hidalgo.  (Someone began circulating a false story about his I.Q.
being lower than any other President.  If you believed it, you might want to
go to URBANLEGENDS.COM and see the truth.)

Vice President Dick Cheney:
Earned a B.A. in 1965 and a M.A. in 1966, both in   political science.  Two
years later, he won an American Political Science Association congressional
fellowship.  One of Vice President Cheney's primary duties is to share with
individuals, members of Congress and foreign leaders, President Bush's
vision to strengthen our economy, secure our homeland and win the War on
Terrorism.  In his official role as President of the Senate, Vice President
Cheney regularly goes to Capital Hill to meet with Senators and members of
the House of Representatives to work on the Administration's legislative
goals.  In his travels as Vice President, he has seen first hand the great
demands the war on terrorism is placing on the men and women of our
military, and he is proud of the tremendous job they are doing for the Uni!
ted States of America.

Secretary of State Colin Powell:
Educated in the New York City public schools, graduating from the City
College of New York (CCNY), where he earned a Bachelor's Degree in geology.
He also participated in ROTC at CCNY and received a commission as an Army
second lieutenant upon graduation in June 1958.  His further academic
achievements include a Master of Business Administration Degree from George
Washington University.  Secretary Powell is the recipient of numerous U.S.
and foreign military awards and decorations.  Secretary Powell's civilian
awards include two Presidential Medals of Freedom, the President's Citizens
Medal, the Congressional Gold Medal, the Secretary of State Distinguished
Service Medal, and the Secretary of Energy Distinguished Service Medal.
Several schools and other institutions have been named in his honor and he
holds honorary degrees from universities and colleges across the country.
&nb! sp; (Note: He retired as Four Star General in the United States Army)

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld:
Attended Princeton University on Scholarship (AB, 1954) and served in the
U.S. Navy (1954-57) as a Naval aviator; Congressional Assistant to Rep.
Robert Griffin (R-MI), 1957-59; U.S. Representative, Illinois, 1962-69;
Assistant to the President, Director of the Office of Economic Opportunity,
Director of the Cost of Living Council, 1969-74; U.S. Ambassador to NATO,
1973-74; head of Presidential Transition Team, 1974; Assistant to the
President, Director of White House Office of Operations, White House Chief
of Staff, 1974-77; Secretary of Defense, 1975-77.

Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge:
Raised in a working class family in veterans' public housing in Erie.  He
earned a scholarship to Harvard, graduating with honors in 1967.  After his
first year at The Dickinson School of Law, he was drafted into the U.S.
Army, where he served as an infantry staff sergeant in Vietnam, earning the
Bronze Star for Valor.  After returning to Pennsylvania, he earned his Law
Degree and   was in private practice before becoming Assistant District
Attorney in Erie County.  He was elected to Congress in 1982.  He was the
first enlisted Vietnam combat veteran elected to the U.S. House, and was
overwhelmingly re-elected six times.

National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice:
Earned her Bachelor's Degree in Political Science, Cum Laude and Phi Beta
Kappa, from the University of Denver in 1974; her Master's from the
University of Notre Dame in 1975; and her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of
International Studies at the University of Denver in 1981.  (Note:  Rice
enrolled at the University of Denver at the age of 15, graduating at 19 with
a Bachelor's Degree in Political Science (Cum Laude).  She earned a Master's
Degree at the University of Notre Dame and a Doctorate from the University
of Denver's Graduate School of International Studies.  Both of her advanced
degrees are also in Political Science.)  She is a Fellow of the American
Academy of Arts and Sciences and has been awarded Honorary Doctorates from
Morehouse College in 1991, the University of Alabama in 1994, and the
University of Notre Dame in 1995.  At Stanford, she has been a member of the
C! enter for International Security and Arms Control, a Senior Fellow of the
Institute for International Studies, and a Fellow (by courtesy) of the
Hoover Institution.  Her books include Germany Unified and Europe
Transformed (1995) with Philip Zelikow, The Gorbachev Era (1986) with
Alexander Dallin, and Uncertain Allegiance: The Soviet Union and the
Czechoslovak Army (1984).  She also has written numerous articles on Soviet
and East European foreign and defense policy, and has addressed audiences in
settings ranging from the U.S. Ambassador's Residence in Moscow to the
Commonwealth Club to the 1992 and 2000 Republican National Conventions.
From 1989 through March 1991, the period of German reunification and the
final days of the Soviet Union, she served in the Bush Administration as
Director, and then Senior Director, of Soviet and East European Affairs in
the National Security Council, and a Special Assistant to the President for
National Security Affairs.&nbs! p; In 1986, while an international affairs
fellow of the Council on Foreign Relations, she served as Special Assistant
to the Director of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.  In 1997, she served on the
Federal Advisory Committee on Gender - Integrated Training in the Military.
She was a member of the boards of directors for the Chevron Corporation, the
Charles Schwab Corporation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the
University of Notre Dame, the International Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan
and the San Francisco Symphony Board of Governors.  She was a Founding Board
member of the Center for a New Generation, an educational support fund for
schools in East Palo Alto and East Menlo Park, California and was Vice
President of the Boys and Girls Club of the Peninsula.  In addition, her
past board service has encompassed such organizations as Transamerica
Corporation, Hewlett Packard, the Carnegie Corporation, Carnegie Endowment
for  International Peace, ! The Rand Corporation, the National Council for
Soviet and East European Studies, the Mid-Peninsula Urban Coalition and
KQED, public broadcasting for San Francisco.  Born November 14, 1954 in
Birmingham, Alabama, she resides in Washington, D.C.

So who are these celebrities?  What is their education?  What is their
experience in affairs of State or in National Security?  While I will defend
to the death their right to express their opinions, I think that if they are
going to call into question the intelligence of our leaders, we should also
have all the facts on their educations and background:

Barbra Streisand : Completed high school
Career: Singing and acting

Cher: Dropped out of school in 9th grade.
Career: Singing and acting

Martin Sheen: Flunked exam to enter University of Dayton.
Career:   Acting

Jessica Lange: Dropped out college mid-freshman year.
Career: Acting

Alec Baldwin: Dropped out of George Washington U. after scandal.
Career:   Acting

Julia Roberts: Completed high school.
Career: Acting

Sean Penn: Completed High school.
Career: Acting

Susan Sarandon: Degree in Drama from Catholic University of America in
Washington, D.C.
Career: Acting

Ed Asner; Completed High school.

Career: Acting

George Clooney: Dropped out of University of Kentucky.
Career: Acting

Michael Moore: Dropped out first year University of Michigan.
Career:Movie Director

Sarah Jessica Parker: Completed High School.
Career: Acting

Jennifer Anniston: Completed High School.
Career: Acting

Mike Farrell: Completed High school.
Career: Acting

Janeane Garofelo: Dropped out of College.
Career: Stand up comedienne

Larry Hagman: Attended Bard College for one year.
Career: Acting


While comparing the education and experience of these two groups, we should
also remember that President Bush and his cabinet are briefed daily, even
hourly, on the War on Terror and threats to our security.  They are privy to
information gathered around the world concerning the Middle East, the
threats to America, the intentions of terrorists and terrorist-supporting
governments.  They are in constant communication with the CIA, the FBI,
Interpol, NATO, The United Nations, our own military, and that of our allies
around the world.  We cannot simply believe that we have full knowledge of
the threats because we watch CNN!!
We cannot believe that we are in any way as informed as our leaders.

These celebrities have no intelligence-gathering agents, no fact-finding
groups, no insight into the minds of those who would destroy our country.
They only have a deep seated hatred for all things Republican.  By nature,
and no one knows quite why, the Hollywood elitists detest Conservative views
and anything that supports or uplifts the United States of America.

The silence was deafening from the Left when Bill Clinton  bombed a
pharmaceutical factory outside of Khartoum, or when he attacked the Bosnian
Serbs in 1995 and 1999.  He bombed Serbia itself to get Slobodan Milosevic
out of Kosovo, and not a single peace rally was held.  When our Rangers were
ambushed in Somalia and 18 young American lives were lost, not a peep was
heard from Hollywood.  Yet now, after our nation has been attacked on its
own soil, after 3,000 Americans were killed, by freedom-hating terrorists,
while going about their routine lives, they want to hold rallies against the
war.  Why the change?  Because an honest, God-fearing Republican sits in the
White House.

Another irony is that in 1987,! when Ronald Reagan was in office, the
Hollywood group aligned themselves with disarmament groups like SANE, FREEZE
and PEACE ACTION, urging our own government to disarm and freeze the
manufacturing of any further nuclear weapons, in order to promote world
peace.  It is curious that now, even after we have heard all the evidence
that Saddam Hussein has chemical, biological and is very close to obtaining
nuclear weapons, their is no cry from this group for HIM to disarm.  They
believe we should leave him alone in his quest for these weapons of mass
destruction, even though it is certain that these deadly weapons will
eventually be used against us in our own cities.

So why the hype out of Hollywood?  Could these celebrities believe that
since they draw such astronomical salaries, they are entitled to also
determine the course of our Nation?  That they can make viable decisions
concerning war and peace?  Did Michael Moore have the backing of the !
Nation when he recently  thanked France, on our behalf, for being a "good
enough friend to tell us we were wrong?"  I know for certain he was not
speaking for me.  Does Sean Penn fancy himself a Diplomat, in going to Iraq
when we are just weeks away from war?  Does he believe that his High School
Diploma gives him the knowledge (and the right) to go to a country that is
controlled by a maniacal dictator, and speak on behalf of the American
people?  Or is it the fact that he pulls in more money per year than the
average American worker will see in a lifetime?  Does his bank account give
him clout?

The ultimate irony is that many of these celebrities have made a shambles of
their own lives, with drug abuse, alcoholism, numerous marriages and
divorces, scrapes with the law, publicized temper tantrums, etc.  How dare
they pretend to know what is best for an entire nation!  What is even more
bizarre is how many people in this country! will listen and accept their
views, simply because they liked them in a certain movie, or have fond
memories of an old television sitcom!

It is time for us, as citizens of the United States, to educate ourselves
about the world around us.  If future generations are going to enjoy the
freedoms that our forefathers bequeathed us, if they are ever to know peace
in their own country and their world, to live without fear of terrorism
striking in their own cities, we must assure that this nation remains
strong.  We must make certain that those who would destroy us are made aware
of the severe consequences that will befall them.

Yes, it is a wonderful dream to sit down with dictators and terrorists and
join hands, singing Cumbaya and talking of world peace.  But it is not real.
We did not stop Adolf Hitler from taking over the entire continent of Europe
by simply talking to him.  We sent our best and brightest! , with the
strength and determination that this Country is known for, and defeated the
Nazi regime.  President  John F. Kennedy did not stop the Soviet ships from
unloading their nuclear missiles in Cuba in 1962 with mere words.  He
stopped them with action, and threat of immediate war if the ships did not
turn around. We did not end the Cold War with conferences.  It ended with
the strong belief of President Ronald Reagan...

PEACE through STRENGTH.

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## chm2023

Look,let's be serious, Hollywood types are entitled to be as foolish or wise as anybody else.  Re George Bush:  true he graduated from Yale with a C average and then was accepted into HBS (Daddy's influence, try getting your kid into Harvard grad school with a C average--there are all kinds of affirmative action!);  served in the national guard in Texas during wartime (again, I would have done the same for my kid, but Dad made sure he got the national guard spot);  went into the oil business (bankrolled by Dad's friends) and his company went bankrupt, though he walked away with a fistful of cash--not a unique story, but hardly speaks to any special acumen as a businessman.  Don't get me started on the Texas Rangers and use of eminent domain and the taxpayers' money to build their stadium.  At the end of the day, this is a man who admits to having a substance abuse problem into his 40's.  Am I saying Bush is a bad man or a bad president, or that people can't grow?  No, I think Bush has in an odd way had a lot to overcome, spec the shadow of a distinguished father and grandfather and is an honorable man. Just hate this drivel about how everything is black and white, people are either all good or all evil.

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## EyeManFla

OK, let's be serious....seems to me a kid who goes through Yale  with a 'C' average and graduates with a Yale degree is still way ahead of the ballgame. Secondly, all parents try to pull strings for their kids...some just have more money to do it with (you don't think that as a Maryland Alumni I don't use my position to help kids I know at UM).

Besides, just what part of people being good or evil do you not understand????!!!!

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## chm2023

Perhaps I was not clear:  my point is that this deification of Bush et al , and demonization of anyone who disagrees with the admin policy, is nonsense.  I am referring to the post attachment you sent.  (Ditto for the inverse from the anit-war side). How do people jump from:  I agree with and support the president, to this?  When people disagree that's one thing;  I can think you are wrong and you can think I am wrong;  unfortunately that doesn't seem to be enough.  Today it has evolved to: everyone on my side is God-fearing, well-educated, brave etc;  anyone who disagrees with my side is stupid, evil and probably smells bad--to whit all the Hollywood people in the rant are bad and all the Bush folks are good. This is demagoguery and has no place in a rationale debate, not to mention downright insulting to anyone with a brain.  When did we as a society become so intellectually lazy.  It's very disturbing.

And I guess the part of people being good or evil I don't understand is this:  if I am to call the likes of Martin Sheen and Cher "evil", what word do I use for Saddam?  Double dog dare evil?

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## EyeManFla

Nobody is suggesting that anybody in the Hollywierd Left is evil. To my knowledge, other than Robert Blake and OJ, none of them has murdered anybody.
However, to equate 'W' with Saddam, which many of them do, is outright fraud.  You are partially correct in that few people, if any are either perfectly good or evil......even Hitler loved his dogs. But good people rearly do evil, they can, but it's rare. And evil people general do good things only when it serves their purpose.
Saddam is evil...period! And how people can't see that is beyond my ability to reason. 

And as far as hollywood, education et al is concerned....there is a vast difference between stupitidy and ignorance.

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## aaron

At the risk of getting torn apart I will go ahead and speak.

I saw bowling for Columbine and I thought it was a very good movie.  I was happy to hear of him recieving an award for it.  

He brought an important topic to light in a way that made it intertaining and thought provoking at the same time.  That is a type of art that is more and more scarce.  Yes his piece was leading, yes it skewed the issue tward his views.  But it was his movie and noone requires complete objectivity when dealing with a sensative issue such as gun control.  And he is free to express his views in any way he chooses, that way just happening to be film.

But let me say, his comments were very disrespectful, and there is certainly no excuse for that.  Many celebrities don't say things that people at the water cooler don't say.  But their words are amplified to an incredible extent because of being such public figures.  This does not excuse them from having certain respectful constraints but does skew our image somewhat.

It is rediculous to call any person or group of people less intelligent or less qualified to speak on a social issue just because of the absence of what is considered a "formal" education.  That is a horrible prejudice.

Either way I have one question....

How come the overall opinion of the war in a general sence is split down a line of age?  All those people around the age of "under 30" are almost violently opposed to war, while most of the older generation is for it?  Just curious what everyone thinks.


                                                        ad

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## Johns

Are you sure that Barbara S., Cher, and Martin S., didn't use their parent's influence to graduate from high school ?  :hammer:

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## Cindy Hamlin

> *Johns said:* 
> Are you sure that Barbara S., Cher, and Martin S., didn't use their parent's influence to graduate from high school ?  :hammer:


Did Cher graduate?  I understood that Sonny met her while she was in high school and she left school to pursue stardom with Sonny.

By the way, here's an interesting tidbit.  Here in Richmond they built a massive coliseum and have had a few great concerts in it so far.  Bruce Springsteen was first and then came Cher.  We were in our glory until someone stole her $3,000 wig (black with teal highlights!  

Well I know you will be glad to know that the hair was returned by the person that received the stolen wig.  "I didn't know it was Cher's when my boyfriend that works at the Coliseum gave it to me."  Guess she neither read the paper or watched the local new that it lead each broadcast!:hammer:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/more/MGBS0IMOWCD.html

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## chm2023

[How come the overall opinion of the war in a general sence is split down a line of age?  All those people around the age of "under 30" are almost violently opposed to war, while most of the older generation is for it?  Just curious what everyone thinks.


                                                        ad [/QUOTE]

One reason comes to mind, people under 30 are the ones who actually fight the war!!!

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## Jeff Trail

aaron,

   I think it has to do with society more so than they are the age of the ones "fighting the war" ..look at it as I do most of our parents (I'm 38 BTW) ..lived in one place and worked one main job for the majority of their work life.. have that retirement etc., etc. ... while now we are a far more mobile society and end up with numerous jobs and do NOT stay with one, two or even three or four companies... depend (hopefully) on our own 401K's, IRA's etc., etc. ...and lets face it we are a more "shallow" society as well, things move much faster and we have connections all over the world in seconds by a touch of a button, we "grew" up on TV and computer and game consoles our "public" memory span is measured in "days" now, not looking at the whole picture and using it to help with making LONG term choices..and talking to people younger I find a lot of them really are lost when it comes to politics'. so you get a group mentality where they go a long with the crowd.. The times for the protests were BEFORE the action started, once it began you should move your protesting over to the political arena if you disagree use YOUR representation in government to express your views..they had a so called march here, and I talked to as many people as I could and they variety of views of the "how, why and where and what" was going on was to the point of ignorance in a lot of the ones I talked to...Did you notice that with all these marchs that you hardly EVER see anyone being interviewed? I have seen a lot of "older" crowd but not very if any of the younger talking... why?.. because the news wants to sensationalize the "size" and numbers and the so called "reason" for it :) Talk to some of these "younger" guys.. if I heard the words "like" and "you know" one more time I was ready to yank out my hair  :Rolleyes:  These two "phrases" were used after every other word by the vast majority I talked to.. you may be serious (well some were) about the actual problem and reasoning but if you come across as a babbling incoherent mental midget what good to any cause are you accomplishing?

Jeff "just my opinion" Trail

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## chm2023

Well unless people stop learning as they mature, it is only natural that younger people are less erudite than older people.  I agree there is something lemming like in the protest movement, or maybe knee jerk would be a better term:  US military action, esp by a conservative republican Pres is automatically a bad thing.  On the other side, youth tends to more idealistic than the more mature.  I think it's too easy to denigrate the motives and intelligence of the people who don't agree with you (though probably very comforting!)  After all the Dali Lama, the Pope, Bishop Tutu, and the Council of Churches all have stated opposition to the war (pretty sure none of these folks pepper their rhetoric with "like" and "you know"...), also many of our allies.  Doesn't that give the smallest suggestion that there may be merit in the anti-war POV?

While I think speaking out against the war if that is one's belief is not only a right, but a duty, I was stunned to read about some of the high command bad-mouthing Rumsfield to the press, blaming him for the war not going as quickly as intially thought by limiting the number of ground troops.  Yikes, how quick is quick enuf???   And when did the military start publicly questioning the competence of their leaders?  Macnamara did this 30 years after the fact and look at the fuss over that;  why is this not causing more of an uproar?

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## John R

> *aaron said:* 
> How come the overall opinion of the war in a general sence is split down a line of age?  All those people around the age of "under 30" are almost violently opposed to war, while most of the older generation is for it?  Just curious what everyone thinks.


Very interesting point as which age group is it you find fighting in the streets after plenty of ale over the weekend...... Certainly not the over 30's.....
Which would tend to rule out the "I hate violence" thought...

My thought is the young will oppose anything the politician's think is good for the country.

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## Joann Raytar

The protest in San Francisco was an interesting display.  Peace and Love, right after I get finished whacking the fellow next to me with my sign. Some folks need to find better hobbies.

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## chm2023

Did anyone happen to see C-span last night, interview w Queen Noor by Jeff Greenfield?  Very interesting, she is of course esp well positioned to comment on the Arab world vis a vis the West.  She made some good points and was quite frank in her responses, with one exception.  When Greenfield asked her why the Palestinians rejected the last peace agreement (the one brokered by Clinton in his last hours) which was widely thought to be quite favorable to the Palestinians, she demurred, saying, "that's a question for the Palestinian govt."  The Western reaction to the Palestinian rejection of course was shock and anger, Arafat biting off his nose etc.  It would be great if the moderate Arab world held the same opinion.  We could start getting at the real problems in the mid-east.  Hope springs eternal!

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## Judy Canty

Queen Noor is the commencement speaker for my daughter's graduation from William and Mary in May.  I am really looking forward to hearing her.  Her interviews have always been very well thought out and lucid.

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## Joann Raytar

Isn't it too late to protest now?  Supposing the protest movement wins; what then?  If the coalition pulls out its troops before ousting the Hussein regime, won't the regime take out its vengence on all of the Iraqi's that supported the coalition forces and those Iraqi soldiers who walked away from their posts? Would we be condemning those villagers seen waving to our troops to torture or death if we do not see this through to the end now?

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## chm2023

I think the protestors serve the purpose of keeping the issue of the wisdom of the general policy on the front burner--meaning the policy of pre-emptive strikes and the stated goal of regime change.  This is a dangerous path (at least to some people, including me) and bears scrutiny.  The protests won't stop the war, know it's very hard for folks to take, esp people with ties to those in harm's way, but that's what this country is built on, the freedom to disagee with the govt and the "tyranny of the majority".

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