# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  Favorite Progessive for shallow frames?

## pipsurfer

I'm looking for favorite progressive lens for a shallow frame. Autograph, Physio  all appear to fit better a deeper frame.  I am talking fitting heights of 27.5 and less. Opinions?

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## obxeyeguy

> talking fitting heights of 27.5 and less.


Do you mean 17.5mm?

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## pipsurfer

yes..sorry for the typo. 17.5 or less

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## For-Life

Ovation.  Fair price, great results.

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## Craig

> yes..sorry for the typo. 17.5 or less


:):):):):)We have had great success with the Kodak Unique fitting from 13+, it is free-form.  We use the Hoya CD, Shamir Piccolo and the Zeiss Brevity for non free-form progressives.  They all work well, depends on the base curve and material we need.
Most of our progressive hts are 17 or less and with a proper RX and fitting; they all work with no problem.
I am still amazed when we dispense a pair at 14 high and they love the reading.
Craig

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## john-atlanta

Piccolo is now freeform technology, not true free form, but a big improvement over the old design.  For 17+ you can use the Zeiss GT2 which is NOT a short corridor.

Never used the unique that shallow, can you give some more feedback on the intermediate (ie computer distance) range on this lens?

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## AdmiralKnight

We use a few different lenses, depending on segs. I like the ellipse for 15/16 heights (can't get the Piccolo).

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## Scott R

Love the results with the ID or ID LifeStyles CD, Lifestyles is has become our go to lens.

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## Fezz

> Love the results with the ID or ID LifeStyles CD, Lifestyles is has become our go to lens.



These lenses are very nice. It just takes too damn long to get them in!!!!!!

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## cocoisland58

The Elllipse and now the Ellipse 360 are all I use for shallow frames.  It's what I wear at 15 high.  We don't sell anything we haven't tried ourselves and approved.

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## obxeyeguy

I use mostly ellipse.  Some definity short.

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## For-Life

I love the OB response.

One question, ten different lenses.  

I think that says a lot for the variety of successful options you have.

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## bt5050

i like using anything + 17 = accolade 

and i usually utilize ellipse ( not a huge fan of 360 but don't have anything agst it - I just find my pt love the regular design and the extra cost of free form design is not usually needed for these 14- 15 mm hts 

one lens i will NO LONGER use is the Sola ultra compact - had very bad results from it

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## For-Life

> one lens i will NO LONGER use is the Sola ultra compact - had very bad results from it


yeah, there appears to be very few PALs that do not have great results, but this appears to be one of them.  Of course the regular Compact was never a great design either.  Use the Brevity instead (if you want to use the same company).

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## MarcE

> I love the OB response.
> 
> One question, ten different lenses. 
> 
> I think that says a lot for the variety of successful options you have.


Ten responses is not enough.  I'll give more!!:bbg:

Essilor Smallfit (14mm MFH) - It's a clone of the Ellipse at a cheaper price (poly and poly Trans only).

Excelite minuo (16mm MFH)- Great lens, great price (CR, trivex and 1.60 only)

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## optical24/7

> I use mostly ellipse. Some definity short.


 

Ditto

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## john-atlanta

sorry thought we were posting in the business forum

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## Fezz

Hey John-Atlanta,

Watch posting wholesale prices. Thats a no-no. You can join the Professionals Only Forum and talk pricing all you want! From the posting guidelines:

Optiboard is a public discussion forum. We are composed of eyecare professionals and the consuming public. *In this regard, it is inappropriate to publish wholesale prices, or other propriatary information which might compromise the relationship between professionals and consumers*. If you have questions of this nature, or information to provide, please use the Private Message system to ask the question or to diseminate the information. Posts containing pricing information deemed inappropriate, will be removed.

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## Judy Canty

YIKES!!!! No prices please!!!!

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## Robert Martellaro

I've never used the AO Compacts, preferring the fully aspheric XS, Summit, and Ellipse, using the Piccolo when flatter curves are not required. However, there are so many variables that it's impossible to say which lens is best at 17 high. Moderate length corridors would probably work well at 17mm in the lower Add powers, and might be acceptable in higher Adds if there are infrequent close tasks, and the wearer is willing to accept some blur with fine print.

Moreover, one must define seg height- are we talking about the geometric height ie, pupil center to the bottommost part of the frame, or the effective height, the distance to the frame considering decentration, inset, and frame shape. A frame shape that sweeps up toward the bridge will turn a measured seg height of 17mm into 13mm of useable height. You'll be in for a world of hurt if you only have 13mm of usable depth in a higher Add power with an avid reader, not to mention that the frame will probably be at, very close to, or above the near vision point. 

In addition, some lenses start the Add power very close to the FC, maybe with a more linear rate of change, others start a little lower with a greater rate of change, the latter offering slightly less blur on the distance gaze, the former offering more utility when looking at eye level objects like desk top monitors, or the top of the newspaper. 

In general, short corridors have substantial blur on the distance peripheral vision. Some folks prefer clear peripheral distance vision, or the best possible distance vision in general- if you're going to take this away, do it for good reason, and explain to the client what you're up to _before_ the glasses are ordered. 

All lenses compromise the vision to some extent; our job is to tailor the lens design to the wearer's needs, choosing frames that are shaped and sized to accommodate the lens design, not hesitating to use multiple pairs when necessary, keeping the compromising to a minimum.

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## Happylady

I use the Ellipse and the Definity Short mainly. The Ellipse has a great distance and okay near but not very much intermediate. If I need more intermediate I use the Definity Short.

I haven't tried the Ellipse but I have a pair of the Definity Short and they work well. I tried the Hoya CD and didn't care for it. It seemed very swimmy and I felt I had to tip my head down slightly to see in the distance. If I fit it I would drop it 1 mm due to this.

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## Scott R

> These lenses are very nice. It just takes 
> too damn long to get them in!!!!!!


We have been getting them in apx. 10 days. although we still say 3 weeks to Pts. Well worth the wait. 
Results with the ellipse were ok and the ellipse 360 were dissapointing, I expected to get a better responce than Pts. saying its ok , nothing special. The responce with the hoya lenses has been WOW this is better.

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## rdcoach5

zeiss GT2 to 15 no problem. Definity short is the best unless the Individual short can be afforded. I have personally worn the Unique and GT2 and there is no comparison- GT2 hands down. The few picky people that didn't like the GT2 were mostly previous progressive non-adapts and liked the Definity better. Everyone has liked the Individual-standard or short. We had a lot of problems with the Ellipse- enough that we wrote it off. The Brevity and Piccolo have always been good lenses.

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## bt5050

was  wondering if anyone was seeing BO's liek i am on the accolade trans poly ?

I did call - and they said they pulled back on stock - since the new trans 6 is coming out early 08 ? 

just wondering - my pts seem to liek this lens much better then the ovations -

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## SailorEd

I'm using the Seiko Succeed (Internal Free Form) Wide and Short.  Can use it to a minimum fitting ht of 15 and it has an 11 mm corridor.  People love it and it is moderate in price.

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## HarryChiling

Don't bash me for this but the Compact Ultra.  I have had great success with it, although I have heard others hate it.

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## MarcE

[quote=HarryChiling;219611]Don't bash me for this but quote]


You are soo asking to be bashed, but 'tis the season:D.  I'll wait until after the new year.

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## Samuel Jong

> Don't bash me for this but the Compact Ultra. I have had great success with it, although I have heard others hate it.


Does fitting height above 17mm still sound good for reading with Compact Ultra?

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## bhess25

> Don't bash me for this but the Compact Ultra. I have had great success with it, although I have heard others hate it.


 
i wont bash you either..butt....this definately isnt a lens for the first time wearer, ive seen our opticians fit this lens to FTW's and they hated it...we switched them to a larger frame, and an ovation or natural..then waited untill the next exam to go smaller....this worked out very well,,,ohh and Harry..did you get it in the mail yet?

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## rdcoach5

> Don't bash me for this but the Compact Ultra. I have had great success with it, although I have heard others hate it.


Harry I have tried this lens and so have about a half dozen of my co-workers. The central distance and near is very sharp with no intermediate and noticeable side distortion. I like a softer lens and need the much larger intermediate of the GT2. By the way, has anyone seen a lens in this price range with a comparable intermediate?

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## MarcE

> By the way, has anyone seen a lens in this price range with a comparable intermediate?


By comparable intermediate, I guess you mean none?  Here are 2 with more (than no) intermediate in the same price range.  I don't the availability if you are surfacing your own.
Minuo and Smallfit.

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## rdcoach5

> By comparable intermediate, I guess you mean none? Here are 2 with more (than no) intermediate in the same price range. I don't the availability if you are surfacing your own.
> Minuo and Smallfit.


No. I meant comparable to the GT2.

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## MarcE

> No. I meant comparable to the GT2.


Oh, sorry.  I don't know about that one.  You might try the Accolade.  Same price range.  Maybe even a bit less expensive.  17mm MFH.  Decent intermediate.

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## justakid

I personally like the summit CD from Hoya.

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## cmcquaig

can the seiko succed be surfaced?

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## Crickett13

Chanell 14 by Landon lens is another.

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## Lucky20/20

What about Ellispe?? You can fit as low as a 15.50- but I only go 16. Its a great price.. or even definity short....

Shannon Fosdick

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## Fezz

Shannon

Welcome to Optiboard!!!


:cheers::cheers::cheers:

Ellipse lists  minimum 14. Ellipse 360 lists a fitting height of 13mm!

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## Lucky20/20

True ... but I have found NEVER to go as low as a 13 because it has caused problems with some pts of mine. :o

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## DragonLensmanWV

> Ten responses is not enough.  I'll give more!!:bbg:
> 
> Essilor Smallfit (14mm MFH) - It's a clone of the Ellipse at a cheaper price (poly and poly Trans only).
> 
> Excelite minuo (16mm MFH)- Great lens, great price (CR, trivex and 1.60 only)


Add another. We have pretty good luck with the Kodak Concise.

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## DragonLensmanWV

> Don't bash me for this but the Compact Ultra.  I have had great success with it, although I have heard others hate it.


That lens is responsible for so many of our remakes, we totally stopped carrying it. Seemed to be the worst high-plus progressive I've ever dealt with.The myopes did like it better though.

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## Lucky20/20

So just wondering what short cor. Pal do you use now????

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## AdmiralKnight

> What about Ellispe?? You can fit as low as a 15.50- but I only go 16. Its a great price.. or even definity short....
> 
> Shannon Fosdick


The Ellipse can technicly go as low as 13mm, I wouldn't suggest it though. I usually only use it for 15's, and the occasional 14. 




> Don't bash me for this but the Compact Ultra. I have had great success with it, although I have heard others hate it.


Very interesting, Harry... you're lucky then, as we've tried it on several different people, all who have had to be restyled. Again, as with the Ellipse, they say you can go to a 14, but we were using 15's and 16's, which should give tons of room, but no go. :(

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## polan07

> True ... but I have found NEVER to go as low as a 13 because it has caused problems with some pts of mine. :o


I've prescribed to my pt a few times the fitting heights 13 it is a success.

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## Samuel Jong

> I've prescribed to my pt a few times the fitting heights 13 it is a success.


I would like to hear the feedback about Sola compact Ultra. The fitting height is also from 13 down to 17.

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## bhess25

> I would like to hear the feedback about Sola compact Ultra. The fitting height is also from 13 down to 17.


 
just dont fit it at 13...the intermediate in that lens realy sucks...its almost like having an invisable FT.

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## Iballs74

I have tried about all progressives on the market and have found I like the Sola HDV the best (free form)  It works down to 13mm without any issues whatsoever.  Before the introduction of this lens I used the Lifestyle CD the most.  I believe the HDV smokes the competition though.  I run a large practice that sells 50-60 pairs daily so I have had quite a few patients to experiment with.

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## john-atlanta

Welcome to OptiBoard!

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## Samuel Jong

> just dont fit it at 13...the intermediate in that lens realy sucks...its almost like having an invisable FT.


What's the effect if we do fit above 17?

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## bhess25

> What's the effect if we do fit above 17?


 
i believe 13-17 is optimal...but if your going to fit it at 17 i would probably go with a different lens..you have to remember there realy isnt any intermediate on these...and there are so many options for a 17 seg with nice wide corridors, and longer channels..ive noticed that some people when fit at 17 in the compact ultra have a realy hard time adjusting (always looking at the bottem of the bifocal where its all distorted)..IMHO anyway!

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## Samuel Jong

> i believe 13-17 is optimal...but if your going to fit it at 17 i would probably go with a different lens..you have to remember there realy isnt any intermediate on these...and there are so many options for a 17 seg with nice wide corridors, and longer channels..ive noticed that some people when fit at 17 in the compact ultra have a realy hard time adjusting (always looking at the bottem of the bifocal where its all distorted)..IMHO anyway!


I have also heard the same issue. When fit at 17 or above then I prefer SOLAOne. Thanks Bhess25.

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## HarryChiling

I thought I woul dadd to the list as we have tried and had sucess with a few more short designs
Shore View Mini - 14MFH - CR-39 onlyBalance Mini - 16MFH - CR-39 only

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## Samuel Jong

> I thought I woul dadd to the list as we have tried and had sucess with a few more short designs
> Shore View Mini - 14MFH - CR-39 onlyBalance Mini - 16MFH - CR-39 only


Thanks Harry.

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## Chris Ryser

> *All lenses compromise the vision to some extent; our job is to tailor the lens design to the wearer's needs, choosing frames that are shaped and sized to accommodate the lens design, not hesitating to use multiple pairs when necessary, keeping the compromising to a minimum.*


Very well said.................................

Should be inserted into every optical bible and brainwashed into every opticians mind.

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## john-atlanta

In reviewing the Sheedy study, it is amazing how well the Younger Image has stood the test of time!  Although this study did not include any digitally surfaced lenses, the Image was a highly rated general purpose progressive especially in light of it's low cost.

See some of his articles here.

http://www.optometry.osu.edu/research/coor/4059.cfm

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## jameselex

i like robert's post.
I switched customer from Comfort to VIP and he was happy, another one from NIkon W to Comfort , he was happy also. A friend of my only sells the very economical lenses you may never heard of -AO easy, yet he rarely has non adap, he got it cheap but he sells them very expensive. Lense manufatures will be happy if we think one lens is better than another, so they can charge more.

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## eceyes

ovation or the ellipse.  if they want a shallow frame..but still do quite a bit of reading..i go ovation..but if htey like distance..i go with ellipse.  but either one is fine.

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## eceyes

with the ovation..you get good distance and good near..but with the ellipse...both will be good stuff..but the distance will be a bit better compared to the reading just because it's a shorter corridor.  correct me if i'm wrong anyone...but thast waht i find.

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## CaOpticalGoddess

Personally I have used GT-2, Physio and Definity short. I love the definity short especially for the clarity in the periphary. I am -3.00/ +1.25

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