# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  The Difference between Physio and Physio 360

## ExpressOptical

Hi there all I'm an optician at express optical in Bend, Oregon and we've been discussing the EXACT differences between a Physio and Physio 360 lens.
I know that the 360 is dually surfaced and the Physio is not.  And I know that the 360 lens is built to match a specific RX, but other than that what else is different between the 2 lenses?  It's kind of hard to describe the difference to a patient.  One analogy we thought of was to compare them to buying an Acura.  The car can be used by short, tall, big and skinny people.  But the 360 would be like having the car made specifically for your height, weight etc...   anyone else have more input??

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## mike.elmes

Physio= digital(wavefront)front surface and regular surfacing on back surface
Physio 360=digital front and digital back surfaces.

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## ExpressOptical

Well I've allready stated that.. Besides the digital surfacing what else is good about it?  How should I explain it to my patients.  They dont really care if one or 2 sides are digitally surfaced.  Why is that good for them?

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## mike.elmes

We use the high def television comparison....sorta like comparing a regular cable signal to that of the new 1080p high def.

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## ExpressOptical

Yeah we use the high def comparison as well..

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## AWTECH

> Well I've allready stated that.. Besides the digital surfacing what else is good about it? How should I explain it to my patients. They dont really care if one or 2 sides are digitally surfaced. Why is that good for them?


FYI:  I believe the front is not digitally individually surfaced but rather made in a mold that was produced using digital surfacing technology. (This is the way most molds are produced today. Both casting glass molds and metal injection molds.

Only the back surface is made to order.

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## OptiBird

One comes with AR and the other does not (unless requested). Both are expensive. They both lack in material & the manufacturer supports my competitor the chains. Just to name a few...At least this was the issues we were having

Although, we did have some patients love it-We've had far better success with the Unique-Problems solved in all areas (Price being #1)-Patients are happy & we are way happier

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## Digitaleye

The Physio 360 is not front and back. Rather it is a Physio cast blank that has a more personilized digitally processes surface on the back. The result is a more customised RX as you have said. Also the power should be more accurate than a normal Physio PAL.

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## Andrew Weiss

From what I know, the front side of the Physio 360 is cast from a digital mold and the back side is "free=form" digitally surfaced to the correct Rx.  This is similar in concept to Rodenstock's old  Multigressiv II, which was a cast, semi-finished Life 2 blank which was digitally, free-form surfaced to the correct Rx on the backside.

I used to sell alot of Multigressiv IIs.  I would tell the patient that the free-form backside allowed Rodenstock to compensate for Rx anomolies, like high cyl, anisometropia, etc., to give the patient the cleanest possible vision.

I do not know whether the software Essilor uses to grind the back surface of the Physio 360 does the same kind of Rx compensation that Rodenstock used to do -- or that Zeiss does on the Multigressiv and Shamir does on the Autograph.

From what I understand, the Physio 360 is not in the same catagory as the Zeiss Individual or Shamir Autograph, which are both "free-form" digitally surfaced on both the front and back surfaces.

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## au

If the pt. come up with high cyl to choose between phy and 

phy360, I will srongly suggested phy360 for it. It is because the atoric on 

the back side is design for cylinder. In all my case the pt. will feel good.


:cheers:

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## Bobie

Physio 360 is good PALs if compare with Physio semi-finished. :)

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## Freedom

> If the pt. come up with high cyl to choose between phy and 
> 
> phy360, I will srongly suggested phy360 for it. It is because the atoric on 
> 
> the back side is design for cylinder. In all my case the pt. will feel good.
> 
> 
> :cheers:


I agree with you Au.
This is the adventage of free form technology when compare to semi-finish PALs.

Old technology : semi-finish PALs BUT high profit it cost just monomer.

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## Freedom

PHYSIO is good lens THAT buy technology from xxxxxx.
IT JUST OEM PALs that have BRAND ... manage by ESSILOR

WHY NOT USED original technology ... same product  you can find it
I thing it will cheaper with same design NOT include advertising cost 
NOT include BRAND IMAGE cost.

PHYSIO 360 is not used same design of PHYSIO base for new generate by CNC to free form PALs.

IT different base design BUT have same name with add 360 in name.
I think ... 360 may be from atoric back suface 360 degree or not.
I not sure PHYSIO 360 have this technology LIKE Multigresssive ILT or
Impression ILT.

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## Freedom

PHYSIO 360 is buy technology by buy J&J definity.

ESSILOR not interest freeform technology because low percentage profit per unit.  BUT semi-finish PALs is very high profit per unit AND easy to BUY ... it mass product

BUT freeform is not mass product ... it complicate and take time.
ESSILOR NOT INTEREST THIS WAY ..... 

THEN ... slow R&D in freeform NOT experience in freeform WHEN compare to competitor.

NOW. when ESSILOR semi-finish is low performane when compare to freeform technology. AND freeform market share in market is high growth.

ESSILOR is not have self knownhow ... easy way is BUY from other.

I think ... ESSILOR like IBM that not interest in pesonal computer
market in the past. 

PHYSIO 360 is same as Definity.
PHYSIO 360 is Definity in new BRAND.

IF will used PHYSIO 360 ... WHY not used Definity.
I believe Definity is cheaper than PHYSIO 360 sure sure.
Because it not include BRAND NAME COST.

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## Bobie

Physio 360 vs DEFINITY vs Hoyalux iD at PD R 32/ L 32 = about the same performance.

Physio 360 vs DEFINITY vs Hoyalux iD at PD R 30 /L 30 = Hoyallux iD is better.

Physio 360 vs DEFINITY vs Hoyalux iD at PD R 28 / L 28 or PD R 35 / L 35 =
Hoyalux iD is much better.

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## mhoires

How you can make any difference if both lenses (Physio and Physio f-360) have the same laser markings... The patient will notice a better vision (amplitud) with the f-360... But you vcan not demonstrate that you are dispensing a f-360...There is no markings...

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## mike.elmes

the markings are the same for now but expect them to discontinue the Physio. Essilor needs to thin out the lenses they have and concentrate on the better designs.

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## mhoires

Both of the the regular Physio and the Physio f360 have the same laser markings... So how you can "show"your patients that he is receiving a Physio f360 if both marking are EXACTLY the same.... In Europe and some other countries where Essilor produces the f-360 they DO have a 360 laser marking engraved on the lens...

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## Chris Ryser

When a manufacturer marks a lens  as such and such, thats what it is..................if he packages them in different boxes or envelopes and might sell them at different prices they are still what they have been marked.

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