# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  Lencrafters FeatherWates® Completes vs Essilor Airwear with Crizal Alize

## josh684

I am getting new frames, I want to know If I should go with FeatherWates® Completes or Essilor Airwear with Crizal Alize. The lens crafters are a little more money, but are they worth it? Help Please
Thanks In Advanced
Josh

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## edKENdance

No comment.  :finger:

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## josh684

I am just a consumer, I need professional opinion. 
Thanks

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## For-Life

are you getting these both at Lenscrafters?

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## josh684

Nope, I got my last lenes at LenCrafters. I have no complaints, but I went to a local opt and they supply the Essilor Airwear with Crizal Alize. That lens is also AR. 
Thanks

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## Chris Ryser

> *Nope, I got my last lenes at LenCrafters. I have no complaints, but I went to a local opt and they supply the Essilor Airwear with Crizal Alize. That lens is also AR.* 
> Thanks


These days you dont even know if not both are from the same source, just named.boxed and packaged differently.

Private lablelling is very common................same product sold under 5 different names or more.

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## caflemin

I don't know too much about what lens crafters sells but the alize coating is a dream. It makes your glasses so much easier to clean even with an anti-reflective coating. At Lenscrafters I think you pay extra for the 1 hour service.

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## Happylady

I am not familar with the AR coat used by Lenscrafers. The Featherwate lens is just their name for their polycarb lens.

I do use the Essilor Airwear with Crizal and it is an excellent lens. The Crizal Alize is a great AR. It is considered to be one of the best available.

What warranty on the lenses is being offered? I know Lenscrafters has that 30 day money back thing going on, but I am talking down the road if the lenses are scratched. The Lenscrafters near me will not replace scratched lenses for free, there is a fee.

I think most places replace the Crizal Alize lenses free. You should ask both places.

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## Jubilee

Is this the complete with Scotchgard?

I think a couple of posts already hit the topic on the head.. Compare warranties, and see if someone can compare the two coatings for you. They are both produced by Essilor...

Cassandra

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## drk

<Groan> I know we have "Teflon" but now "Scotchguard" too? <Groan>

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## Cherry Optical

> <Groan> I know we have "Teflon" but now "Scotchguard" too? <Groan>


Scotchguard?  LoL  You have to be kidding me.  If your glasses are made of carpeting you may want that, but since we are dealing with clear plastics, I would stick with the Alize'. 

Personal opinion:  The only glasses that should be made out of Polycabonate are these http://www.foodservicedirect.com/ind...e_Tumblers.htm

Adam

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## rsandr

> Scotchguard? LoL You have to be kidding me. If your glasses are made of carpeting you may want that, but since we are dealing with clear plastics, I would stick with the Alize'. 
> 
> Personal opinion:  The only glasses that should be made out of Polycabonate are these http://www.foodservicedirect.com/ind...e_Tumblers.htm
> 
> Adam


Do they come with a list of beverages that shoudn't be used in case of crazing?

Rick

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## For-Life

> Personal opinion: The only glasses that should be made out of Polycabonate are these http://www.foodservicedirect.com/ind...e_Tumblers.htm
> 
> Adam


Adam, aren't you currently marketing your Round Seg 22 in poly transitions?

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## Johns

Adam,

I was told that the 10 drilled rimless frames I purchased from you had poly lenses in them also.  :finger:

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## DPalmer

> Scotchguard? LoL You have to be kidding me. If your glasses are made of carpeting you may want that, but since we are dealing with clear plastics, I would stick with the Alize'. 
> 
> Personal opinion: The only glasses that should be made out of Polycabonate are these http://www.foodservicedirect.com/ind...e_Tumblers.htm
> 
> Adam


Hey guys Scotchgard is the newest lens available at Lenscrafters . What it is is crizal repackaged for LC . These guys are in deep with Essilor it has been obvious for some time . Oh well what are ya gonna do it was bound to happen.Oh yeah and it is poly by the way.

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## snowmonster

Having seen the packaging of the stock lenses in the Lens Crafters lab, I'm conviced the Scotchguard lenses are the Alize.

I think what consumers don't realize is this.  Featherwate Completes are Crizal Alize on a polycarb lens without any warranty (thanks to Lens Crafters awful breakage/scratch warranties).  Crizal Alize through your independent OD/MD/Optical are warranted against scratches.

I work at a Lens Crafters 3 days/week and at my private office 2 days/week.  I'm constantly amazed by what people pay for stuff with no frame warranty or no scratch warranty.

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## Pete Hanlin

Having seen the packaging of the stock lenses in the Lens Crafters lab, I'm conviced the Scotchguard lenses are the Alize.
Being familiar with the _manufacturing_ and supply-chain for both products, I can assure you Scotchguard lenses are not a repackaged Crizal Alize.

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## snowmonster

My mistake...

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## Cherry Optical

> Do they come with a list of beverages that shoudn't be used in case of crazing?
> 
> Rick


  Rick:

You definitely don't want to use acetone, hairspray, or paint thinner.  Not only do they damage the glasses, the taste will kill you.

Adam

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## edKENdance

hmmm.

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## Cherry Optical

> Adam, aren't you currently marketing your Round Seg 22 in poly transitions?


Nah, you have me mixed with someone else.  Instaed of the RD22 PC Trans, we came out with a 1.67 Double Segment.  Market is strong for that lens.  We also have a 14x35 Polycarbonate Transitions Splitz lens.  I figure that one will be a hot seller.

Adam

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## Cherry Optical

> Adam,
> 
> I was told that the 10 drilled rimless frames I purchased from you had poly lenses in them also.  :finger:


John:

LoL!  You can purchase whatever you want from me, so long as you pay your bill on time.  I actually have no idea what you are talking about, but if you would have ordered TVX in those drilled frames, you would have saved $100.  

You order it, I make it, you pay for it.  I can only supply what people order.  I do however make strong suggestions in may cases.

Adam

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## Cherry Optical

> Having seen the packaging of the stock lenses in the Lens Crafters lab, I'm conviced the Scotchguard lenses are the Alize.
> Being familiar with the _manufacturing_ and supply-chain for both products, I can assure you Scotchguard lenses are not a repackaged Crizal Alize.


"I did not have sexual relations with that women."  ~President Clinton

Sorry Pete, couldn't resist that one.  

Adam

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## For-Life

> Nah, you have me mixed with someone else. Instaed of the RD22 PC Trans, we came out with a 1.67 Double Segment. Market is strong for that lens. We also have a 14x35 Polycarbonate Transitions Splitz lens. I figure that one will be a hot seller.
> 
> Adam


okay, sorry for the confusion

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## Aarlan

> Being familiar with the _manufacturing_ and supply-chain for both products, I can assure you Scotchguard lenses are not a repackaged Crizal Alize.


Pete,

What are the advantages/disadvantages of the two compared to one another (Alize vs scotchgard?).  Are they at least similar, or are they completely different?  It would seem that the marketing LC has offered on the new scotchgard lens show that it has similar properties to the Alize, SHV or Carat.  

AA

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## caflemin

Do you think the scothchguard is the same as a teflon coating? I don't think the teflon coating is as nice as the D'alize or even the alize. It just doesn't seem to bead as well.

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## mattress

D'Alize: whats that dont have a Rep ever come around so dont know the new Essilor products

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## For-Life

> D'Alize: whats that dont have a Rep ever come around so dont know the new Essilor products


It is not available in the US.  It is Alize with the blue instead of the green residual colour.

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## Chris Ryser

> What are the advantages/disadvantages of the two compared to one another (Alize vs scotchgard?). Are they at least similar, or are they completely different? It would seem that the marketing LC has offered on the new scotchgard lens show that it has similar properties to the Alize, SHV or Carat. 
> AA


I have heard that the Cole labs which probably supply these coatings have new equipment made by Satis and also get the supplies from them.

The slick coats in general are all in the same family and originate from very few supply sources. You can easily assume that they are most probably very closely related, with the exception of their given names. Therefore they should all have the same properties with the only *one existing exception*:

*An easy to clean slick coat that also has anti-fog and anti- stat properties*.
None of the large local corporation has picked up this one yet and is advertisong it as the latest and fanciest invention they have developed.

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## caflemin

D'alize is a step up from the alize and is only available from Dr's offices  and maybe small opticals not the big chains like LC and Costco (at least that is how I think it works in Canada).

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## eg31486

> Scotchguard? LoL You have to be kidding me. If your glasses are made of carpeting you may want that, but since we are dealing with clear plastics, I would stick with the Alize'. 
> 
> Personal opinion: The only glasses that should be made out of Polycabonate are these http://www.foodservicedirect.com/ind...e_Tumblers.htm
> 
> Adam


Actually, the Crizal and the Scotchguard both have the same chemicals... teflon.  The same teflon in your cooking pans and yes, in your couch, car seat, and carpet fabrics.  It's how it makes it so easy to clean.  Just FYI.

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## eg31486

Also, Cherry, I've been wearing poly lenses w/ regular AR for over 15 years (I'm a -6.00 OU) and I've never had a problem with any of them.  I've probably had 12-13 (or more) Poly AR glasses over that time.  But I'm careful with them, which both AR and Poly require because of their softness (AR coat and poly lens).

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## Cherry Optical

> Actually, the Crizal and the Scotchguard both have the same chemicals... teflon.  The same teflon in your cooking pans and yes, in your couch, car seat, and carpet fabrics.  It's how it makes it so easy to clean.  Just FYI.


I personally have never heard a single Essilor/Varilux rep state that they have the true "TEFLON" in their coating.  I do find this very intriuging.  I will do some research to find out if their is any falility to this claim.  I do however, highly doubt it at this time.  They may have a 'TEFLON-LIKE' chemical in their mix?

Adam

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## Cherry Optical

> Also, Cherry, I've been wearing poly lenses w/ regular AR for over 15 years (I'm a -6.00 OU) and I've never had a problem with any of them.  I've probably had 12-13 (or more) Poly AR glasses over that time.  But I'm careful with them, which both AR and Poly require because of their softness (AR coat and poly lens).



Umm.. Ok?

Adam

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## Chris Ryser

> Actually, the Crizal and the Scotchguard both have the same chemicals... teflon. The same teflon in your cooking pans and yes, in your couch, car seat, and carpet fabrics. It's how it makes it so easy to clean. Just FYI.


Your assumtion is partly right. The names are only names that they have aquired from whoever has the rights to them.

However the applied product has nothing to do with the product in cooking pans or car seats.

*What it does it fills the microscopic gaps between the crystals of the AR coating, therefore preventing dirt from going in between which makes the hard to clean. You know have a filled clean and smooth surface and no dirt penetration*.

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## AEOC

> Pete,
> 
> What are the advantages/disadvantages of the two compared to one another (Alize vs scotchgard?).  Are they at least similar, or are they completely different?  It would seem that the marketing LC has offered on the new scotchgard lens show that it has similar properties to the Alize, SHV or Carat.  
> 
> AA



Just wanted to bump this because I didn't see an answer anywhere on the forum.  What is the difference between Scotchguard and other premium coatings such as Alize or Teflon (other than where you can get them from)?

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## edKENdance

From what I understand.  Nothing.

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## HarryChiling

The next break through in lenses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

wrinkle free stain resistant AR*











* no warraties on the performance of this product wrinkles may occur and keep away from any solutions known to cause stains.

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## Johns

> From what I understand. Nothing.


 
That's why nobody answered...

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## Pete Hanlin

What's the difference between a Cadillac, a Lexus, a Porsche, and a Jaguar- other than where you get them?

All the above cars have similar characteristics (four wheels, leather seats, etc.) and are probably made on similar robotic machines...  They aren't the same brand or the same car, however.

Likewise with Crizal Alize with Clear Guard, Teflon, Scotchgard, etc...  Naturally, they have similar properties (they are all ARs), and they probably share some similar processes (the hardcoating process for all Crizal products, nearly all Teflon products, and Scotchgard product is dip coat/thermal cure, which is capable of producing a very durable lens).  That doesn't mean they are all identical.

That manufacturers make different products which they sell through different channels is not news.  Retail accounts for approximately 52% of the eyewear sold in the US.  Therefore, it is therefore not particularly surprising that manufacturers would make products for this channel.  Essilor happens to make two of the brands in their line of products (Varilux and Crizal) directly available only to private practices.  Essilor also spends $ millions to advertise these brands to help create consumer awareness.   

Retailers also sell high quality products, such as Zeiss and Scotchgard.  Similar products- different brands and different properties.

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## edKENdance

So what are you saying Pete?

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## snowmonster

I think he's saying that everything is nearly the same, but different only when under a microscope.

   -Steve

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## dochsml

The front and back AR on LC is different. The idea is that they stock front side only AR lenses. Then they can surface the lens and apply backisde AR in the store for lenses in an hour. From what I understand, the idea works very well. They even apply their own UV hard coat.

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## edKENdance

From my experience that is incorrect.

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## For-Life

Wasn't that a system that they used years ago?  I forget what it was called, but it was done by Sola.

There is a thread about it.  The problem was that if you used a rimlon it could split, and it was a little thicker.

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## dochsml

> From my experience that is incorrect.


which part?

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## dochsml

> Wasn't that a system that they used years ago? I forget what it was called, but it was done by Sola.
> 
> There is a thread about it. The problem was that if you used a rimlon it could split, and it was a little thicker.


They use sputter coaters now I believe. from satisloh.

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## Jubilee

Only some stores in certain areas have access to the Satis coating system. And according to my former sources anyway, it wasn't considered a success to have them there. 

Currently the Scotchgard AR is either a finished SV lens in stock or is manufactured by Essilor..

The non Scotchgard are either done using a Satis system if the store has it.. or by one of the central labs.

Cassandra

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## dochsml

> Only some stores in certain areas have access to the Satis coating system. And according to my former sources anyway, it wasn't considered a success to have them there. 
> 
> Currently the Scotchgard AR is either a finished SV lens in stock or is manufactured by Essilor..
> 
> The non Scotchgard are either done using a Satis system if the store has it.. or by one of the central labs.
> 
> Cassandra


wonder why LC doesn't use Cole as its source for AR? Keep it in the Lux family.   :Confused:

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## Jubilee

That is one of the central procesing facilities they use for non Scotchgard. Scotchgard was developed in conjunction with Essilor. So I am sure there is a contract there for having Essilor produce it for so many years...

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## spazz

Matrix System-- that was the old system from Sola.  (It was horrible.)

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## bt5050

was wondering if you had any insight on scotchguard - and and it relationship to  crizal and alize - ?  

i see here in the usa - scotchguard is only marketed by LC- and no one else - 
however over seas (( see attached UK site ) they also market scotchguard but it also has name Crizal with it -  and then they list alize - and  Crizal with scotchguard - 

what this tells me - is that this scotchguard product may not be the alize product like some state - and it may be a new product on the market from essilor for a top coating option  - ? 

if it was private label name for LC they wouldn't offer it overseas under this name - and also they would not seperate it from alize - would they ?? 

it also seems as the vailux products over seas are also a bit differant-
ie - varilux comfort "short "  and regular comfort --furthermore - 

I am interested in finding more info on  these other near varible focus lens they list - r  they aval here in the usa under a differant name -? 
i have seen interview here - but they also list 2 forms of " computer " by varilux  - and it is not the interview -  
here r the links on the coatings and PALS 

http://www.essilor.co.uk/lensinfo/coatings.html

http://www.essilor.co.uk/lensinfo/varilux/computer.html

thanks

any info would be appreciated

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## EyeFitWell

To my knowledge, LC doesn't currently offer any short corridor progressives.  In America, Scotchgard is LC's brand "comporable" to Alize.  It is a good product, but does not offer the Alize's warranties.

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## FCChemist

Not sure if I can offer a lot of insight, but Scotchgard(TM) is a brand. The underlying technology of a product is what supports the brand promise. Scotchgard (TM) means protection and that means keeping things looking good longer.  For more information go to:

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...otchgard/Home/

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## bt5050

i did speak to a friend of mine that works for the company in question - and was told that they do offer the following now - 

varilux ellispe ( in all materials ) 
and she did mention they just started using some short pal - that can be fit as low as 13 mm - i think she said it was in poly - and from 2 differant vendors - 
essilor ( not suprising LOL) 
and sola 

ANY IDEAS WHAT DESIGNS THESE ARE ?

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## Dave Nelson

Go ahead, Edkendance, say it! Its a consumer post.

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## k12311997

> Go ahead, Edkendance, say it! Its a consumer post.


sorry I'm not Edkendance,  not only is it a consumer post  it is a year old consumer post(from when they were allowed to post).

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## Dave Nelson

Must be an interesting post, cause its been resurected a few times.

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## bt5050

Hi everyone- 

not sure if these comments are coming from my post- however - just wanted to let everyone know - that i am not a comsumer- that i  started my optical apprentiship in 1995 and rec. my abo and ncle in 1997 and then went on to sit for my CT state License in 2000- 

shortly after getting my license - the company i was with was bought by LC and i had left there to work for a friend when he needed me to cover his vacation -  and to fit every now and then = 

I still will work a few days now and then for him -   however not for LC - but i do  have some old friends that continue to work for Lux -

 ( Lux had purchased a larger company ( VC ) right before moving on to us - and now it seems that they have many - if not all the chains here in CT - such as the old vision corner- eyeworlds - sears - target - Bj's - and pearls ( how ever i think these may be franchises ? - ) not sure - 

i continue getting my 7 credits per year at our super sunday thru MCC- and renew my abo/ncle ( not really sure why i continue to do this - since i dont need to carry these to hold my state lic. but i guess it is good to have in case i ever decide to  move out of state-  and want to get back into it full time - 
anyways back to my org posting - when i do work in the office -  i do hear from pts that are price shopping about this 13mm pal and that is when  i had asked a old friend that is currently  at lux -- she was kinda unsure about it  - just  - that is is able to be ordered - but she still uses the ellipse as her choice  -  with their  scotch guard ar -

as for me - i am  only familar with the varilux and difinity lines  and some  hoya and younger  lines - and unsure what was new  out there in a short pal from essilor and sola - currently -  

i was going to check with the folks at balester -   - but i  remembered coming to these boards a while back and  everyone is always up on the latest info here  - 

sorry for the confusion 
 :Confused:  
hope everyone has a great thanksgiving and enjoy the time with your family !!!

God Bless

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## DallasLabTech

> I don't know too much about what lens crafters sells but the alize coating is a dream. It makes your glasses so much easier to clean even with an anti-reflective coating. At Lenscrafters I think you pay extra for the 1 hour service.


I am a LC lab tech--we do not charge extra for our one hour service--it is the basis of our quality service.:)

We also do not charge extra for Rx change remakes for up to 90 days.

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## snowmonster

Way to revive a thread from the dead (started in August of 2005).

The point was that LC charges a heck of a lot more than any other office/practice for their products. It's the premium for having rapid service, although many competent locally-owned practices/offices can provide the same service.

I'm only posting in response so random consumers won't get confused by the LC rhetoric.

-Steve

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## DallasLabTech

> The front and back AR on LC is different. The idea is that they stock front side only AR lenses. Then they can surface the lens and apply backisde AR in the store for lenses in an hour. From what I understand, the idea works very well. They even apply their own UV hard coat.


I am a LC lab tech and we do not apply any AR in our instore labs--AR is all done by our centralized manufacturing labs or outsourced to Essilor. We do however stock finished regular poly w/ AR, and 1.67 w/ Scotchguard AR, and of course our Poly Scotchguard lenses.

Yes, we do put a UV hardcoat on the back of every surfaced polycarb lens--the front side is coated by mfgr.

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## DallasLabTech

> Way to revive a thread from the dead (started in August of 2005).
> 
> The point was that LC charges a heck of a lot more than any other office/practice for their products. It's the premium for having rapid service, although many competent locally-owned practices/offices can provide the same service.
> 
> I'm only posting in response so random consumers won't get confused by the LC rhetoric.
> 
> -Steve


sorry for the ressurrection--really didn't look at the date until after the second post--was reading posts on scotchguard and alize--OOPS

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## snowmonster

Just curious - how long have you worked for LC?  Have you ever worked in a different lab (not owned by Luxottica)?

   -Steve

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## Jubilee

> I am a LC lab tech and we do not apply any AR in our instore labs--AR is all done by our centralized manufacturing labs or outsourced to Essilor. We do however stock finished regular poly w/ AR, and 1.67 w/ Scotchguard AR, and of course our Poly Scotchguard lenses.
> 
> Yes, we do put a UV hardcoat on the back of every surfaced polycarb lens--the front side is coated by mfgr.


 
Please note that not every lab will be set up to run similar to yours. When I worked for them, I know of a few different "test" labs where they tried casting and yes even in house AR. While I have not been there for over 2 years now, I would still venture to guess a few successful stores may have the equipment still.

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## Crazy-bout-Optics

Quoting DallasLabTech.
I am a LC lab tech--we do not charge extra for our one hour service--it is the basis of our quality service.:)


This is of no offense to you. I myself am a *former* LC-er. I imagine you are strictly lab and do not work retail whatsoever. If you did, I am sure it would (eventually) dawn on you to wonder who pays for customer returns, unlimited 30 day exchanges, and that indeed the consumer does ultimately pay for that one hour service.  You may say "there is no extra charge for one hour service!" But let me ask you this:

Which is cheaper:
1) Having a Lab in (almost :Optique's are excluded) every store, with staffing, hourly wages, "Spiffs" insurance premiums, electricity, rent, utilities, tools, those great fitting Lab Coats, supplies, cleaning products . . . and On, and On , and On.

or 

2) Outsourcing the whole process.

The consumer pays for you to be there to make their glasses. This applies to those consumers who DO NOT get their glasses in the hour as well, as you still are there to make them. So you are wrong to say the consumer does not pay extra to have their glasses in an hour. Those fees, if you will, as well as the expense of customer returns and exchanges are neatly hidden in the charges LC charges for its frames and lenses. Now when half of those lenses come from Mexico, Thailand and the like, and LC is buying hundred of thousands of lenses, what do you think their cost per lens is. It is not even remotely close to retail, couldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

To top it off and really stick it to the customer, we have that new & improved "Discount replacement plan", which, of course is "FREE". Now if you actually believe that it indeed is free, I think you've been hanging around the poly clear fumes for too long. That "FREE" replacement plan, aka BPP, now costs the consumer half the retail price. Yet those SAME lenses would most likely be replaced at no charge or some nominal shipping charge as they have a Warranty from the manufacturer if they were bought at an Independent.  So whats the difference between LC and Independents, its the same lens fromt he same company. You think LC actually pays for those new lenses and thats why they charge the consumer. The simply keep track of those BPP's and tell Essilor or whomever to credit them for those lenses yet they still charge the consumer.  It is because they have to pay YOU to remake them, of course usually in an hour, as if thats some condolence and some grand convenience to the consumer.

Im not trying to sound high and mighty, but once i was deprogrammed and actually entered private practice, i realized how brainwashed they have all their employees. I'm also getting my Masters in Economics, and the most fundamental thing you could possibly learn is that in the end ALL COSTS are passed on to the consumer. I am simply stating this so you know what i say comes from an educated, informed background, as these types of issues are all we Economist deal with all day.

This addresses the cost issue, but I am not even going to get started in on LC "Quality", as I have sent back jobs to be remade too many times b/c scratched lenses, Eye for and Eye, off axis, segs not right etc actually got out of the lab for me to dispense.

So please, the next time you actually have the balls to say ANYTHING from LC is "FREE" please open your mind and actually take a minute to think. It might also help if you worked retail and actually had to talk and deal with the consumers, as opposed to being in a lab listening to the radio all day.

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## optical24/7

Come on Matt, don't hold back, tell us what you really think!:D

:cheers:

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## Fezz

Hey Crazy-bout-Optics-

I like your style! Keep it up!

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

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## Crazy-bout-Optics

> Come on, don't hold back, tell us what you really think!:D
> 
> :cheers:


i am a shy one after all  ;-)
LOL, right!

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## MarcE

$179 for "featherweights" SV w/ Jack Crap coating.

Sounds free to me.

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## Crazy-bout-Optics

Ok, no rant and rave here, I promise.

So I have worked with LC Fwt Complete W/Scotchgaurd and have just today gotten back lenses with crizal Alizee w/cleargaurd. 

So, to comment about the original question of this post is that IMO, they are completely different. The Crizal Alizee w/cleargaurd is much easier to clean and the water beads up faster and better than Scotchgaurd.

I also noticed that when I (lightly) ran a finger over the Crizal lens it did not smudge or leave any residue on the lens. This is much better than the FWT Complete w/Scothgaurd lenses. I have worked with and Love Hoya Super Hi Vision A/R. IMO it is the "best" A/R lens out there, but it even smudges a bit when I run my finger over it while the Crizal doesn't. 

I guess for me the Ideal A/R would be one with the scratch resistance of Hoyas Super Hi Vision, combined with the ease of cleaning of the Crizal Alizee w/cleargaurd. 

Personally i think the Scotchgaurd A/R lenses are blah and wouldn't use them even if they were given to me for free, thou I do admit it was a much needed improvement over LC's old A/R.

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## Chris Ryser

> *$179 for "featherweights" SV w/ Jack Crap coating.*
> *Sounds free to me.*


If you ever have a chance of visiting a polycarbonate lens injection plant you will see the lenses coming out of mold in racks of 6 lenses every few seconds and then go automatically inti a hardcoat dipping process abd the oven to cure the coat.

*It is basically the same process and material as if you would produce plastic forks and knives for you out door party which you purchase by the 50s for 2 to 3 bucks.*

Manufactuerers love to push these lenses because besides progressive they are their largest money maker.
They could sell you 50 lenses for $ 2-3 and still make a decent profit.

Out of above reason they can play with the price on a wide margin depending to whom and what quantities
and which color envelope you want.

Essilor has Gentex spitting out lenses and Zeiss/Sola have a plant on Rhode Island that spits out lenses, never touched by a human hand, which you can buy and re-sell in any name under the sun you wish.

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## bt5050

> Ok, no rant and rave here, I promise.
> 
>  i think the Scotchgaurd A/R lenses are blah and wouldn't use them even if they were given to me for free,


thats kinda crazy - NO ? 

It is not that bad of a product that i would ot take them for free - 
sounds like it is more about something with them over at LC - then that of the lens - ?

b?

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## DocInChina

> *It is basically the same process and material as if you would produce plastic forks and knives for you out door party which you purchase by the 50s for 2 to 3 bucks.*
> 
> Manufactuerers love to push these lenses because besides progressive they are their largest money maker.
> They could sell you 50 lenses for $ 2-3 and still make a decent profit.
> 
> Out of above reason they can play with the price on a wide margin depending to whom and what quantities
> and which color envelope you want.


Chris, keep in mind that the mold costs for polycarbonate lenses are enormous. Each power requires a different mold and then you need hundreds (even thousands) of each mold for each power. Additionally the cost for the equipment to manufacture polycarbonate lenses is MUCH higher than lens casting equipment. Once the equipment and molds are payed for the profit finds its way back to the manufacturer. 

Doc

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## Crazy-bout-Optics

> thats kinda crazy - NO ? 
> 
> It is not that bad of a product that i would ot take them for free - 
> sounds like it is more about something with them over at LC - then that of the lens - ?
> 
> b?


Has nothing to do with the fact that they are sold at LC. It wouldn't matter to me where they were sold, I wouldn't take them. I am a former LC-er, and while I am VERY glad to be out of there, they did open the door to the Optical world and gave an 18 year old who knew nothing about optics a good education. Now that I am in private practice I see just what is really out that and how readily available better products are to consumers. 

IMO Scotchgaurd lenses are inferior, and I do not understand why someone would pay about $300 retail for FWT completes w/Scotchgaurd when you could get Trivex (Much better material) with Alizee or Hoya Super Hi for about the same or less price. 

I hate to admit this, but I was curious about glasses you buy online. I sent in a Modo frame of mine and for $39 got Poly with in house A/R. Honest to God, I think that A/R coating was better than the Scotchgaurd lenses from LC.

Just my 2 cents ;)

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## bt5050

i wouldn't doubt if the lenses - where all from the same - giant essilor - 

i was just saying - to make a comment that you wouldn't take them if someone was trying to give them to you is kinda odd ------ 

 hell for free -!!!!!

 I WOULD take almost any lens - and update one of my wifes 10 pairs - esp for folks in the optical industry - that usually get a  coupon from a rep - every year - if not several per year - 

are your reps generous - ? ours r - 
our lens reps - seem to be a bit more - but we do see at least 5 frames comp'd to us yearly - and we just split them up fairly with in the office - on a running list -

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## Crazy-bout-Optics

> i wouldn't doubt if the lenses - where all from the same - giant essilor - 
> 
> i was just saying - to make a comment that you wouldn't take them if someone was trying to give them to you is kinda odd ------ 
> 
>  hell for free -!!!!!
> 
>  I WOULD take almost any lens - and update one of my wifes 10 pairs - esp for folks in the optical industry - that usually get a  coupon from a rep - every year - if not several per year - 
> 
> are your reps generous - ? ours r - 
> our lens reps - seem to be a bit more - but we do see at least 5 frames comp'd to us yearly - and we just split them up fairly with in the office - on a running list -



Yes we do get lenses for free. Usually a pair a year from the big labs. We also get about 1/2 off wholesale from some of the smaller labs. And we can gets frames from reps, you know how that runs, buy 11 get one free, or some variation on it, It is just number crunching basically. My point is, that if I have access to the best A/R lenses out there, why in the world would I get scotchgaurd when Super Hi and Crizal Alizee, and even Zeiss cool blue are MUCH better? 

I just want to yell "Wake Up Consumers!" They go into LC and they are told that Fwt completes with Scotchgaurd is the best lens, when, IMO, it is mediocre at best when compared to whats out there.  

Id rather keep my winderful lenses that are 2 years old that are scratch & hassle free than to get "free" Scotchgaurd lenses that don't clean as easily and that will scratch in about 3 months. IMO, I think those lenses are not made as Scratch resistant as they could be just so that they will scratch and that the LC customer will come back to pay 1/2 of retail to have them replaced. LC, Essilor etc are in the business of selling lenses. Working at LC I cannot tell you how many patients came back complaining about how they scratched easily and were ****** when they realized they had to fork over At LEAST 150 to have their lenses replaced. 

On a completely separate note, I wonder how they heck Luxottica has remained under the radar as far as not being probed into trying to become a monopoly? Just a thought ;-)

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## omnioptics

the general suspicion is that scotchguard lenses and crizal alize are different labels of the same technology. please do enlighten us on the comparison and contrast of these two products, as you are so inclined to offer assurance.

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## Judy Canty

Omni, why are you dredging up old threads?  Consumers are no longer allowed to post optical questions on the board and we aren't supposed to be responding to them.

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## THE MEB

essilor is marketing the scotchguard in trade journals for ECP, an additional coating over alize. I heard they called it scotchguard because it is something, like teflon, that consumers can relate to. As far as the rd22 trans polys, to my knowledge the only lab that has them, and they advertise them heavily, is Three Rivers Optical in Pittsburgh.

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## HarryChiling

> essilor is marketing the scotchguard in trade journals for ECP, an additional coating over alize. I heard they called it scotchguard because it is something, like teflon, that consumers can relate to. As far as the rd22 trans polys, to my knowledge the only lab that has them, and they advertise them heavily, is Three Rivers Optical in Pittsburgh.


The similarity between scotchguard and teflon is the technology.  Flouride, this is what makes the pans on you cookware non-stick, this is what makes the fabrics coated with scotchgurd stain resistent, this is also what makes AR lenses repel water.  The branding is just that branding and is there to help consumers recognize the advantages of these products over another.  I prefer to explain and educate my customers to the advantages of flourinated AR's, but their are many different flavors ont eh market and just because two of them have decided to brand their products does not mean they are the best or that they even use technology that is far different from the others.  It woudl  a good idea foro all in our industry to look into these and other coatings and leave the effects of branding to the consumers.

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## Chris Ryser

This thread is 3 years old...........and started by a consumer

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## ASenior

Did anyone ask this guy what his RX looks like? Maybe he would be better suited with a High Index....... yeah...lol... this is an old thread... my bad

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## S8472

didnt realize this was such an old thread before I responded, deleting response

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