# Optical Forums > Canadian Discussion Forum >  Coastal Entry Level Price Increase Up 56%

## HindSight2020

The pendulum continues to swing...

Pressure from shareholders, recurrent annual losses in the millions, a declining contact lens web market and new retail locations have forced Coastal to drastically increase their selling costs to consumers.  The most notable being their entry level $38 bait and switch web special which has now increased to $59.

The honeymoon of unlimited capital and market share at no cost seems to be coming to an end which is great new for Independents.  Consumers that have already sampled this low cost, low quality and no service structure are now doing a 180 degree turn back to the Independent professionals realizing that for a slightly higher cost, they can experience and savour the true meaning of personalized service.

As for the retail chains, they are all hurting and cutting back on staffing and advertising.  

http://www.clearlycontacts.ca/glasse...3Complete59_CA

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## idispense

They won't have to raise the price by much to be profitable. The have huge market share. It remains to be seen if it is loyal market share. 

They have made a dent in the marketplace and everyone is suffering, except unique retailers following the Johns principles of marketing. Now is the time for them to stay aggressive and bring prices up slowly to profitablilty as others close. 

Now is the time for everyone to bring pressure to the regulators to insist they start performing their jobs or vote them out.

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## idispense

Wikpedia says Coastal only  entered the eyeglass market in 2010 but in 2012 they sold over  1 million pairs of eyeglasses.
So is it fair to say they are adding 1/2 million eyeglass sales per year ? Whatever, what was their $$ loss in the last year ? Divide that number by 1 million.  How much do they have to raise the price per unit by in order to break even ? It's not a large per unit number is it ? 

As the big boys close stores, where  does that market share go ? What percentage of the present market does Coastal own ? Apply that percentage to the new customers floating around and drifting without a home . What does that do to their bottom line?

As the big chains, owned by frame manufacturers, close stores  and to the extent that those manufacturer's products are being sold by Coastal now anyhow, then what is the real loss to the manufacturer ? As the manufacturer closes their retail B&M store and they shed that overhead they also increase business to Coastal. How many retail behemoth stores have to close to increase Coastal to profitablility ?

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## idispense

Wikpedia says and I quote: 

"Social media :

Coastal.com uses social media, with both Twitter and Facebook pages where customers can give feedback, share photos and learn about company promotions.[17][18][19] [17][20] The firm puts on large-scale promotional giveaways for their eyeglasses, as many as 10,000 pairs each round. Today Coastal.com has more than 1.6 million global Facebook Fans ranking it as the clear leader in social media among optical retailers. Internet Retailer magazine ranked Coastal one of the top 3 web retailers in social media in January 2013. [21 " 


Interesting 1.6 million facebook fans ? Divide that number into their loss and then what is the break even raise in price  figure ?

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## idispense

Assuming that Coastal can maintain the 2012 Wikpedia volume of 1,000,000 pairs of glasses sold without losing market share then Hindisght's s quote of a 56 % price raise = 21.00 per unit which translates to $ 21,000,000 .00  to the bottom line without taking into account normal year over year growth/decline , acquisitions and spin off from other competitor closings . 

If they can pull that off ,  that is not too shabby for a firm selling glasses for $ 58.00

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## Chris Ryser

Wikipedia is wrong................I have been following Coastal fo at least 6-7 years, when laughed at mentioning them.. They started in 2000.


I also noticed the price increases a few days ago. idispence is right, they might have made the move to become profitable.

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## Johns

> They have made a dent in the marketplace and everyone is suffering.


Who is everybody?  I know of more than a handful of independent ODs & Opticians that are experiencing all time record profits, and some are planning on expanding their services. Don't assume that just because someone is winning, that everyone else is losing.

Family Dollar may have had a great 3 year run, but that takes nothing away from Nordstrum  who also continue to achieve success.  


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ros...mps-2013-01-03

If you are an online retailer, then yes, compare the trends, but for many of us, it is merely pruning the market, allowing other sales to grow stronger.

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## idispense

did you misread the exception list to "everyone"  ?

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## RT

> Assuming that Coastal can maintain the 2012 Wikpedia volume of 1,000,000 pairs of glasses sold without losing market share then Hindisght's s quote of a 56 % price raise = 21.00 per unit which translates to $ 21,000,000 .00 to the bottom line without taking into account normal year over year growth/decline , acquisitions and spin off from other competitor closings .


You are assuming that all 1M pairs were originally sold at the $38 price, and now will be sold at the $59 price.  Since Coastal has multiple price offerings, it's not a good assumption that all 1M pairs are going up by $21.  Also, you're ignoring the possibility that they will sell fewer units at the higher price (normal price elasticity).

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## idispense

> You are assuming that all 1M pairs were originally sold at the $38 price, and now will be sold at the $59 price.  Since Coastal has multiple price offerings, it's not a good assumption that all 1M pairs are going up by $21.  Also, you're ignoring the possibility that they will sell fewer units at the higher price (normal price elasticity).


The theory of price elasticity holds true in normal marketplaces using normal marketing methods in practise at the development time of that economic theorem, however it is not particularly suited to these circumstances in time as price elasticity relies on standardization of some variables being held constant, which is not the case here.

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## Johns

> did you misread the exception list to "everyone"  ?


I guess so!

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## idispense

For instance, price elasticity theorem does not anticipate or allow for the following factors:

... Purchasing market share by giving away mass amounts of merchandise free
... Pricing product below BE to purchase market share
... Removing licensing barriers,forcing the competition to assist not compete
... Selling product into otherwise licensed areas in contravention of local applicable laws
....Regulators at many levels turning blind eyes to their own local applicable laws
....Members of regulated bodies will not stand up to the regulators they vote in
....Membership continuing to pay regulators rather than demand the laws be upheld
....Politicians pushing the matter on TV
....Sheer determination and dedication and quality of leadership team

"Normal price elasticity ?"  Is there something normal here ?

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## idispense

> You are assuming that all 1M pairs were originally sold at the $38 price, and now will be sold at the $59 price.  Since Coastal has multiple price offerings, it's not a good assumption that all 1M pairs are going up by $21.  Also, you're ignoring the possibility that they will sell fewer units at the higher price (normal price elasticity).


If their loss was only $ 5 million then they will only need a $ 5.00 increase per each of last years 1 million eyeglass sales or only a $ 2.99 increase per each of 1.67 million Facebook fans or to look at it another way if they achieve a $ 21.00 increase on only 238,100 eyeglass sales then they will still reach Break Even.

We are only talking about reaching break even though eyeglass sales too, not contact lenses or accessories.

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## Chris Ryser

> *If their loss was only $ 5 million then they will only need a $ 5.00 increase per each of last years 1 million eyeglass sales or only a $ 2.99 increase per each of 1.67 million Facebook fans or to look at it another way if they achieve a $ 21.00 increase on only 238,100 eyeglass sales then they will still reach Break Even.
> 
> We are only talking about reaching break even though eyeglass sales too, not contact lenses or accessories.
> 
> *



Nice mathematics...........................

Would this apply ???????????????????





The three wise monkeys over the Tōshō-gū shrine in Nikkō, Japan



The *three wise monkeys* (Japanese: 三猿, _san'en_ or _sanzaru_, or 三匹の猿, _sanbiki no saru_, literally "three monkeys"), sometimes called the *three mystic apes*,[1] are a pictorial maxim. Together they embody the proverbial principle to *"see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil"*.[2] The three monkeys are *Mizaru*, covering his eyes, who sees no evil; *Kikazaru*, covering his ears, who hears no evil; and *Iwazaru*, covering his mouth, who speaks no evil. Sometimes there is a fourth monkey depicted with the three others; the last one, *Shizaru*, symbolizes the principle of *"do no evil"*. He may be shown crossing his arms.
There are various meanings ascribed to the monkeys and the proverb including associations with being of good mind, speech and action. In the Western world the phrase is often used to refer to those who deal with impropriety by turning a blind eye.[3]
In English, the monkeys' names are often given as _Mizaru_,[4] _Mikazaru_,[5] and _Mazaru_,[6] but the last two names were corrupted from the Japanese originals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_wise_monkeys

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## HindSight2020

Although in theory a simple price increase would seem to make one more profitable, however this is not always the case and guaranteed will not have them break even next year. They are also in desperate need of an operating cost reduction. Don't be fooled folks, they are hurting and may never recover to emerge from the red ink.

Chris, I must ask why you're such an advocate for CC and suggesting now is the time to purchase some stock? Seems a bit hyprocritical to me considering what your customer base is comprised of.

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## Chris Ryser

The saying goes that you buy stock before it goes up and sell bedore it goes downs. I have never played the stock market anymore since my first try in 1972 and lost $ 2,000

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## Johns

> The saying goes that you buy stock before it goes up and sell bedore it goes downs. I have never played the stock market anymore since my first try in 1972 and lost $ 2,000


I play the stock market because I can do it from my Droid w/out having to get on a plane to LasVegas.

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## Chris Ryser

To come back to the thread, does anyone think that they will sell less with their price increase ?  I still see them hammering away with their advertising everytime I ask GOOGLE a question.

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## HindSight2020

> To come back to the thread, does anyone think that they will sell less with their price increase ? I still see them hammering away with their advertising everytime I ask GOOGLE a question.


The only thing that has gotten them to where they are today is cheap, cheap and cheap, with alot of investor money to advertise heavily and operate their own manufacturing facility.  But, when your entire customer base is made up of bottom feeder consumers, and you now raise your prices, they will begin to boycott and flock somewhere else.  

They have proven they could gain a ton of marketshare with their free pair giveaway and low web prices but they will continue to lose a ton of money.  I feel they are now saturated and on the decline and is evident with their CL sales.  Glasses will do the same in time.  

As for the investors - they are becoming very antsy and impatient.  All of these variables are negative and is just a matter of time before they spiral dive and eventually crash.

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## Chris Ryser

> *But, when your entire customer base is made up of bottom feeder consumers**, and you now raise your prices, they will begin to boycott and flock somewhere else.  
> 
> As for the investors - they are becoming very antsy and impatient.  All of these variables are negative and is just a matter of time before they spiral dive and eventually crash.
> *


When the Dollar, continously being printed like the Weimar Republic did in the early 1900s  by the Fed, will be devaluated by the Chinese taking over the oil currency:

"For the first time since the 1970's, when Henry Kissenger forged a trade agreement with the Royal house of Saud to sell oil using only U.S. dollars, China announced its intention to bypass the dollar for global oil customers and began selling the commodity using their own currency.
http://www.examiner.com/article/doll...oil-using-yuan "

There will be another big bunch of above called bottom feeders , when inflation shoots up and a loaf of bread might cost $ 50.00 or more when the dollar gets devalued, because it has no backing as the chinese yen which is fully backed by gold..

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## Golfnorth

> The only thing that has gotten them to where they are today is cheap, cheap and cheap, with alot of investor money to advertise heavily and operate their own manufacturing facility.  But, when your entire customer base is made up of bottom feeder consumers, and you now raise your prices, they will begin to boycott and flock somewhere else.  
> 
> They have proven they could gain a ton of marketshare with their free pair giveaway and low web prices but they will continue to lose a ton of money.  I feel they are now saturated and on the decline and is evident with their CL sales.  Glasses will do the same in time.  
> 
> As for the investors - they are becoming very antsy and impatient.  All of these variables are negative and is just a matter of time before they spiral dive and eventually crash.


I agree with you.

Regards,
Golfnorth

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## gibby2020

The "bottom feeders" could be any of us or our families/friends etc as the economy continues its downward spiral. We may not be price shoppers for eyewear, but for other products/services we may behave like our clients/patients/customers.
If necessary people are willing to give up service if the price is right. 
So time will tell if CC can turn a profit. I doubt it, unless production is moved to China. 
That would be a cruel joke for all Canadians  as one of the reasons for the Eyecare Modernization Act the BC gov't rolled out in 2010, was to protect the jobs of 250 BC residents that CC employed.

I agree with Chris wrt future buying power of fiat money. 
Gonna stock up on Chinese made product while it is still cheap. Until I can figure out how to make them here!

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## optimensch

"... as the chinese yen which is fully backed by gold"
Hi Chris - to my knowledge, the chinese currency is NOT gold-backed, in fact no fiat paper currency is. Not yet anyway....

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## gibby2020

> "... as the chinese yen which is fully backed by gold"
> Hi Chris - to my knowledge, the chinese currency is NOT gold-backed, in fact no fiat paper currency is. Not yet anyway....


The Chinese are reportedly passing the Indians in yearly importation of gold, so some think a gold backed RMB/yuan is in the future. Makes sense for them to do something with the depreciating pile of cash and IOU's they have: buy gold, silver, industrial metals, etc. No harm in hoarding them for future use. In case of war they can draw on those supplies.

Anyone open a Yuan account with the Bank of China?? Thought about that a while ago but never followed thru....

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## Chris Ryser

*China Launching Gold Backed Global Currency*Posted on October 9, 2012
 World Truth TV  According to the article, China is recasting all of their gold reserves into small one kilo bars in order to issue a new gold-backed currency. Many say this will disrupt global trade and will eventually cause a collapse of the US dollar.

There can be no doubt that the US dollar will soon be history. China is recasting all of their gold reserves into small one kilo bars in order to issue a new gold backed global currency. This is surely a strategic part of their recent push to sign new trade agreements with Russia, Japan, Chile, Brazil, India, and Iran. The cat is now out of the bag, the US will be given the bums rush by the largest trading nations in the world and the dollar will go down in flames. GATA now estimates that 80% of the gold that investors believe they have in allocated accounts is long gone, the majority of it probably wound up in China.


As the Canadian Dollar is tied to the US one it will suffer along with a collaps of the US currency if and when it happens.

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## optimensch

Well, GATA has been talking about a dollar collapse for a long time...If this comes to pass, a gold-backed Chinese currency, let's hope our new masters are kind to us.
If the USA were to return to the old bretton woods gold standard (which lasted a while, until Nixon Nixed it) they say the gold price would need to be more than $10,000 per ounce. That'll make your Must de Cartier frames a touch pricier...
buy gold?

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## Chris Ryser

The 2013 Panda gold coin from China is here.doc


http://onlygold.com/coins/ChinesePandasFullScreen.asp

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## Johns

That's China Chris...everyone in the USA knows that the REAL currency is ammunition!

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## idispense

Darn, I am always the last to know these things, my girlfriend taught me the real currency is _guilt_ and you could buy your way out with diamonds. However my florist disagrees.

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## Chris Ryser

idispense...............maybe you can convince your regulators with a few Pandas in gold

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## gibby2020

[QUOTE=Chris Ryser;451794]*China Launching Gold Backed Global Currency*

Posted on October 9, 2012
 This means war, unless Western bankers are participating with the Chines in this.
Guess we need to run and hide out someplace remote.

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## idispense

> idispense...............maybe you can convince your regulators with a few Pandas in gold


Not from me..

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## Chris Ryser

> *This means war, unless Western bankers are participating with the Chines in this.
> Guess we need to run and hide out someplace remote. 
> 
> *



When China succeds to back their currency by gold, while the USA continues printing Dollars, without backing and debts only, there will be 
a major devaluation of the Dollar like it happened in Germany between 1910 and 1920. My father who then was a young optician told me that it was cheaper to light a cigarette with a 1,000 mark note than with a match. 

China is working actively to get the traditional oil market changed from exlusively working in US Dollars to their own currency. If, or and when that happens, the US Dollars will loose its important place on the world market as it has no other backing and debts only. 

Prices will have to skyrocket, and savings will shrink accordingly.  That will be the same for retirement funds. All the warnings about this happening soon, as in a few month of 2013, are flooding the internet and they seem to make sense.
The Canadian Dollar has its ties to the US one and would also suffer. Is it wise to keep money at the bank at 1.04% interest or replace it with gold at no interest and not loose between 10 and 50 % in case a disaster happens ? 

How will that affect the optical retail trade versus the optical on-line trade ? When prices will go up steeply by a devaluation and savings drop in the same ratio, where will the consumer turn to make purchases ?

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## Chris Ryser

You can get some intersting information at:






*Money and Markets — FREE Financial Investment  Publication*www.*moneyandmarkets*.com/Cached - Similar
You +1'd this publicly. Undo
Our experts at *Money and Markets* provide you with vital and timely insight, advice, and global financial investment information.

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## optimensch

Chris,

IMO if paper currency goes into an out-of-control tail spin, such as a Weimar event, you will of course be better off owning gold and silver, in PHYSICAL form, rather than "paper" gold, such as futures/etfs. However, so few individuals own any gold and so that leaves BARTER as a possible scenario. And that is the WORST nightmare of all for the government bean counters. Canada, like England, has sold off its central bank gold a long time ago. They have a PAPER fetish; they like pieces of paper with pictures of dead US presidents, rather than shiny beautiful and indestructible precious metals. So how many loaves of bread is an eye exam and a pair of glasses worth?

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## optical24/7

Funny how a Google search for the term "*China Launching Gold Backed Global Currency"*    Yields zero results from any credible news agencies...

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## Stan Tabor

> *China Launching Gold Backed Global Currency*
> 
> Posted on October 9, 2012
>  World Truth TV According to the article, China is recasting all of their gold reserves into small one kilo bars in order to issue a new gold-backed currency. Many say this will disrupt global trade and will eventually cause a collapse of the US dollar.
> 
> There can be no doubt that the US dollar will soon be history. China is recasting all of their gold reserves into small one kilo bars in order to issue a new gold backed global currency. This is surely a strategic part of their recent push to sign new trade agreements with Russia, Japan, Chile, Brazil, India, and Iran. The cat is now out of the bag, the US will be given the bums rush by the largest trading nations in the world and the dollar will go down in flames. GATA now estimates that 80% of the gold that investors believe they have in allocated accounts is long gone, the majority of it probably wound up in China.
> 
> 
> As the Canadian Dollar is tied to the US one it will suffer along with a collaps of the US currency if and when it happens.


I get all my news from "World Truth TV".  If "Eddie" says it, it must be true.  And when I read sentences that start out with  "Many say", I am captivated and spellbound.  

China has their own problems due to currency manipulation.  They have flooded their economy with their own currency and their stimulus packages were much larger on a GDP basis than the US.  We are in uncharted waters in terms of monetary policy and interest rates and I do not think anyone knows what is going to happen although in my humble opinion, it will probably be very bad for the US and Canada, but it will not be total collapse.  I just don't buy this notion that China is backing its currency with gold. And I don't buy the notion that the dollar is history.  If it is, China will collapse as well as the US debt they hold will be worthless as well.  Their economic system will collapse because they will have lost their biggest trading partner.   

How did we get from Coastal contacts to the destruction of the dollar?  Because this is Optiboard.

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## Chris Ryser

> *Funny how a Google search for the term "China Launching Gold Backed Global Currency"    Yields zero results from any credible news agencies...
> *







Make your owns deduction........why should they not  ??????????????

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## idispense

My search shows evidence of several countries quietly moving to a gold backed currency, Mongolia being mentioned along with China.

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## Judy Canty

Where's William Jennings Bryan when you need him???

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5354/

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## Galerie

> They have proven they could gain a ton of marketshare with their free pair giveaway and low web prices but they will continue to lose a ton of money. I feel they are now saturated and on the decline and is evident with their CL sales. Glasses will do the same in time.


Their eyeglass revenue in the US increased 95% in Q1, 2013 compared to Q1, 2012. The decline doesn't seem so evident to me. http://bit.ly/ZfY2h0

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## idispense

Would it be reasonable to reduce our licensing fees each year by their increase in market share per year ?

Seems like as good a yardstick as any to measure the regulatory bodies by .

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## gibby2020

> Their eyeglass revenue in the US increased 95% in Q1, 2013 compared to Q1, 2012. The decline doesn't seem so evident to me. http://bit.ly/ZfY2h0


Revenue-expenses= a 5 Million loss last yr. They are quick to report sales growth but profitability has eluded them so far. The consumer is getting a great deal if the glasses work right out of the box. But that takes them out of the market for a while for us independents and for the onliners. When the happy consumer returns to the onliners for the next purchase and they don't find the giveaway what then? We (that survive) better be ready with aggressive pricing, good selection(excluding brands readily available online) and stellar service.

We should remember to look at their financials by July 2013 to see what if any profit they have made. With the opening of the B&M location soon, that will add costs. Plus their current promo of 30% off all lenses, frames, coatings, Transitions & Polarized,means even less profit per sale............If you give it away you are sure to get good revenue but less and profit.


Gib

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## gibby2020

> When China succeds to back their currency by gold...............Prices will have to skyrocket, and savings will shrink accordingly.  That will be the same for retirement funds. All the warnings about this happening soon, as in a few month of 2013, are flooding the internet and they seem to make sense.
> The Canadian Dollar has its ties to the US one and would also suffer. Is it wise to keep money at the bank at 1.04% interest or replace it with gold at no interest and not loose between 10 and 50 % in case a disaster happens ? 
> 
> How will that affect the optical retail trade versus the optical on-line trade ? When prices will go up steeply by a devaluation and savings drop in the same ratio, where will the consumer turn to make purchases ?


Prices should rise for the onliners as well, since virtually everything in the optical supply chain comes form China. Stock up while it's still relatively cheap!!! 
In 2 to 3 years I think the B&M retail landscape will be much less populated. Consumers will have fewer surviving independent B&M stores where they can get knowledge and service, chain B&M's where they may not get either, and online where the consumer is on their own.  

Currency Wars--->Trade Wars----> World Wars?

Gib

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## optimensch

i watch clearly now and then for cl pricing. i believe that very recently they have slashed prices on air optix and focus aqua comfort dailies. there arenewer online options in canada that are lower priced on big brand cls and clearly seems to be adjusting accordingly. i guess their margins are getting cut hard on contacts.... boo hoo, my heart breaks for them.

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## HindSight2020

> Their eyeglass revenue in the US increased 95% in Q1, 2013 compared to Q1, 2012. The decline doesn't seem so evident to me. http://bit.ly/ZfY2h0


CL's are flat and about to decline.  Glasses is now their focus and will climb for now.  It will peak and decline at some point.  Even with all that growth in eyewear, they're bottom line is still suffering badly losing $4-$5M per year.

You don't have to be an accounting genius to see that their plan is not profitable nor working.  Even is they continue to grow in that sector 10 times vs. current revenue, it is doomed.

Sales mean market share % but is nothing without a bottom line - revenue is vanity but profit is sanity for shareholders.

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## Chris Ryser

> *Coastal.com U.S. Eyeglasses Business Accelerates 95% in Q1, 2013
> *





> *VANCOUVER, British Columbia, Feb. 13, 2013 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Coastal.com (Nasdaq:COA) (TSX:COA) (Stockholm:COA), the leading online provider of eyewear, announced today that for the first quarter ended January 31, 2013, eyeglasses revenue in the U.S. increased approximately 95% compared with the first quarter of 2012. Eyeglasses units in the U.S. market also grew approximately 95% in the first quarter of 2013 compared to the same period in 2012. Also during the first quarter ended January 31, 2013, eyeglasses revenue in Canada increased approximately 36% and eyeglasses unit sales in Canada increased approximately 31% when compared to the first quarter of 2012, driven by increasing average order size of returning customers in the Canadian market.  Coastal.com's total worldwide eyeglasses sales for the quarter were approximately $14 million.
> 
> *




Increase in Canada--------------> 31%
+
Increase in the USA-------------> 95%            

all to a value of 14 million

They did it and made it happen, and you did not make these sales and I did not sell them the supplies. Why  do we belittle them by saying they make no money and should be out of business. Why do we not start to find out why do people buy from them? 

When in 12 of the US States more than half of the population is in the poverty level  according to the latest financial reports, and not touched by the official media. When the financial gurus predict a collapse of the US Dollar in the very near future. When more than half of US citizen lives from pay check to pay check. 

Foreclosure filings expected to increase in 2013.  
The backlog of foreclosure filings stuck in the pipeline thanks to legal issues is flowing once again across the Natural State, sending delinquency filings higher to start 2013.
Mortgage delinquency activity rose 270% in Arkansas from January 2012 *as 1,016 households faced foreclosure to start 2013, according to RealtyTrac.com.*
Last month there were 218 new filings in Benton and Washington counties and the local foreclosure pace rose 98% compared to January 2012. But real estate agents say the numbers are still manageable and much lower than the foreclosure peak in 2009 and 2010.  http://www.thecitywire.com/node/26471

We can not blame the consumer for looking at better prices to fit their wallet. Anybody in a tight monetary situation will  look for an easier solution. Can the optical retail make the necessary changes to gain back the loss of consumers and how ????

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## optimensch

hi Chris,

there are a lot of glasses being sold on the web, and these web sales seem to be growing. but, do we know that these web sales are causing a measurable decline in optical sales at brick-mortar optical? and do we know these consumers buying online are really lost to us? i know that i have served and sold eyewear to people who have purchased glasses on line previously. is it possible that some of the online sales are a matter of the "pie" getting a bit bigger. for years people have purchased contacts online and yet when patients come in, many of whom have bought cls online, i can often regain their cl business by showing them our offers. as optical professionals with exam rooms and showrooms, able to speak to and interface with the consumer, with among other things, manufacturer rebate coupons, samples, and in store offers, i have a major advantage too, compared with a computer screen.

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## optimensch

additionally, when someone needs an exam, a nosepad replaced, a frame adjusted, an online purchase or not, they dont go the screen. they come to us. it is our opportunity to get them in our 3d interactive real-reality show room, with real-reality frame try-on, real-reality service, a FAQ answering human and a human that takes care of the mysterious "pd" measurement. some opticals will seize the opportunity to win back the 'lost' consumer because their offer is that good, and some wont.

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## idispense

Why not do everything within your power to eliminate illegal competition in your area if it is against your local applicable laws ? Why are you looking for an excuse to justify regulators continuing to charge you thousands per year while they refuse to do what you pay them for ? 

Would you continue to pay your employees if they referred your customers to onliners ? That is exactly what you are permitting to happen each time you pay your association fees or you regulatory body fees IF AFTER YEARS THEY STILL GIVE YOU EXCUSES AND NO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION. Your regulatory body in a self governing framework is your employee. If you would fire your receptionist for sending your customers to a competitor or bad mouthing you as a greedy optometrist then where is the difference with your regulatory body? You voted them in and you let those voted in hire others and by not insisting they uphold local applicable laws then you are paying your regulatory body to work against you , not for you . You would fire a direct employee for less so why are you putting up with your money not doing the work you agreed to? You are allowing this to happen and condoning it ! 

Vote them all out and fire them. How many more years would you carry an employee that sends your customers elsewhere ?

Why is it your social responsibility to have to work harder to get and retain sales while others lie to you about the job they will do such as upholding local applicable laws ?

Would you continue to pay a policeman who watches, allows and observes crime and knows the offenders but does nothing to uphold the law ?

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## optimensch

> Why not do everything within your power to eliminate illegal competition in your area if it is against your local applicable laws ? Why are you looking for an excuse to justify regulators continuing to charge you thousands per year while they refuse to do what you pay them for ? 
> 
> Would you continue to pay your employees if they referred your customers to onliners ? That is exactly what you are permitting to happen each time you pay your association fees or you regulatory body fees IF AFTER YEARS THEY STILL GIVE YOU EXCUSES AND NO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION. Your regulatory body in a self governing framework is your employee. If you would fire your receptionist for sending your customers to a competitor or bad mouthing you as a greedy optometrist then where is the difference with your regulatory body? You voted them in and you let those voted in hire others and by not insisting they uphold local applicable laws then you are paying your regulatory body to work against you , not for you . You would fire a direct employee for less so why are you putting up with your money not doing the work you agreed to? You are allowing this to happen and condoning it ! 
> 
> Vote them all out and fire them. How many more years would you carry an employee that sends your customers elsewhere ?
> 
> Why is it your social responsibility to have to work harder to get and retain sales while others lie to you about the job they will do such as upholding local applicable laws ?
> 
> Would you continue to pay a policeman who watches, allows and observes crime and knows the offenders but does nothing to uphold the law ?


In Quebec at least, the Order of Optometrists, the governing body, is so busy fighting against the Order of Opticians about how to tighten regulations against US , the brick and mortar, on-the-ground professionals, it is INSANE! They will wind up driving more Quebeckers to the onliners with all this garbage they are doing. The inter-professional squabbling here is over the top and I for one will sit back and watch this one play out, I've said my peace to them though. This is Nero playing the fiddle while Rome burns, the inmates running the asylum.

----------


## idispense

We would fire employees for sending our customers to our illegal competitors and the regulatory bodies are no different. Vote them out. Fire them. Then they can argue amongst themselves from the sidelines without our money and without the expense accounts and without their BS continuing to destroy us with our own funds. Sitting it out and watching will take years. They have proven they will not work . Vote all of them out. 

And watch the voting processes carefully.

----------


## optimensch

> We would fire employees for sending our customers to our illegal competitors and the regulatory bodies are no different. Vote them out. Fire them. Then they can argue amongst themselves from the sidelines without our money and without the expense accounts and without their BS continuing to destroy us with our own funds. Sitting it out and watching will take years. They have proven they will not work . Vote all of them out. 
> 
> And watch the voting processes carefully.


FYI I have someone RIGHT NOW in the shop asking for his Rx, wants to buy from Clearly. -11.25 -2.25 cyl OU.

they don't offer 1.74, only 1.67 for around 60$. Plus the frame, to about 115$.

Oy vey.

We're trying to save this one...

----------


## gibby2020

Back to what Chris said wrt belittling CC and onliners: Yes we need to be aggressive in our pricing to win over the consumer but we also need to change our purchasing habits to send a clear message to suppliers that if the product can be had online for less than my cost then I cant buy and stock said product, through the usual channels. Unlike CC, small independent businesses  cant run at a loss for years. So who is bankrolling this? One of our suppliers?
Yes sales are being lost based on price. Even if we lower prices and accept lower profits per sale, online will still be taking a chunk of the market. This will lead to a thinning of the heard (of ECP's). There are too many retailers of glasses in the marketplace.

Gib

----------


## optimensch

Gibby, I agree with you. I have brought in a big selection of lower priced frames and put them along side the bigger brands, give people options. I think having some frames under 100$, even $50 and all-in pricing is a help. I know it is working for us, but I also know that people are running to compare what the CC s of the world have. It's scary, and I'm starting to think we need to almost do some negative advertising against the on-liners (who point out to consumers how much they are over-paying for this lens or that frame, which is FALSE) - that we can offer good pricing options for end-of-line, Private Label etc..
Yes, we need to lower pricing, or at least offer a selection of goods at a more web-competitive price

----------


## idispense

> Gibby, I agree with you. I have brought in a big selection of lower priced frames and put them along side the bigger brands, give people options. I think having some frames under 100$, even $50 and all-in pricing is a help. I know it is working for us, but I also know that people are running to compare what the CC s of the world have. It's scary, and I'm starting to think we need to almost do some negative advertising against the on-liners (who point out to consumers how much they are over-paying for this lens or that frame, which is FALSE) - that we can offer good pricing options for end-of-line, Private Label etc..
> Yes, we need to lower pricing, or at least offer a selection of goods at a more web-competitive price



those things do help , and cutting ALL unproductive cost areas is imperative.

----------


## idispense

> Back to what Chris said wrt belittling CC and onliners: Yes we need to be aggressive in our pricing to win over the consumer but we also need to change our purchasing habits to send a clear message to suppliers that if the product can be had online for less than my cost then I cant buy and stock said product, through the usual channels. Unlike CC, small independent businesses cant run at a loss for years. So who is bankrolling this? One of our suppliers?
> Yes sales are being lost based on price. Even if we lower prices and accept lower profits per sale, online will still be taking a chunk of the market. This will lead to a thinning of the heard (of ECP's). There are too many retailers of glasses in the marketplace.
> 
> Gib



yes, cutting all suppliers that are working against us is imperative to survive, there is no room for wasting money at any level, with any supplier even the license suppliers. no supplier should expect to have it both ways

----------


## gibby2020

> yes, cutting all suppliers that are working against us is imperative to survive...........


Yes we as individual biz owners and as professional associations need to change our ways. I'm going to the BCAO annual meeting this weekend and who do I have to "thank"? J&J, Alcon etc for their "support" in putting on these shows with supposed CE. Because we as professions take money from these giants we are seriously compromising our independence, profitability and quality of our continuing education. There's very little unbiased info to learn at these meetings as virtually all the speakers are paid by "the bigs". Plus all the research(ers) at the schools are corporately funded so where can I get real CE?
Another beef is there's no unbiased CE on lenses/optics, no CE in BV and refraction..yes refraction the reason people come to see optoms. Not ocular health.
 As association dues rise a lot of people will look at those dollars and say they are not making enough money in this biz to justify these unnecessary expenditures..

Gib

----------


## idispense

Entering the race to zero, or letting it begin is wherein the flaw lies. 


A point in case is Apple, leaders in the field for unique products that people want and are willing to pay high margin prices for. Yes, Apple has had its share of dead on arrival products that could not compete, but they were able to ditch those failures early and move on to market leading products with both margin and volume.


Our problem is lack of leadership and we are selling a commodity now and even a commodity service , so our margins will spiral downwards in a race to zero, while praying to obtain volumes not achievable. 


The consumers race to pay the least for a commodity is why there is a huge lack of jobs. Job loss is the high cost of low prices. 


To reverse the situation requires breaking the barriers, just like CC did in B C and becoming the low cost leader. To do that you must think outside the box. Our box was controlled by regulators, and CC broke the regulators and destroyed the BC optical box. Now think about this: " what box contains CC and other on liners?"  


One part of that answer is: (1) internet search engines 
                                        (2) capital from stock markets


Can you think of the other walls of their box ? The walls of their confining box contain the answer to our problem, just as they examined the structure of our walls and broke our box.

----------


## edKENdance

I've been interested in this company for awhile.  Especially since they're setting up retail outlets so I set up google news alerts for clearly contacts as well as coastal contacts.  This company may be plastering itself all over the world of social media but there is nothing happening in regular news.  It's almost eerie.

----------


## HindSight2020

> I've been interested in this company for awhile. Especially since they're setting up retail outlets so I set up google news alerts for clearly contacts as well as coastal contacts. This company may be plastering itself all over the world of social media but there is nothing happening in regular news. It's almost eerie.


There's nothing eerie about it.  Social media mass advertising costs only a fraction compared to newspaper, radio or television.  And since they are mainly web based (for now), this is their  demographic where the bulk of their customers are being derived from.  Not to mention, the web demographic is global scale.

I'd say their target market is 18-35, a market consisting mainly of non-established cash strapped consumers where price supercedes quality and service. And they wonder why they have no bottom line?  It's doomed long term.

In the past couple of weeks, I've had 4 patients that were previous CC customers that purchased their eye exam and new glasses from us.  People will pay a little more for service and a professional they can consult with to answer their questions, not some customer service rep reading a scripted response over the phone.

----------


## edKENdance

Google news isn't about advertising.

----------


## idispense

This shows a different picture of age demographics hindsight

http://www.ignitesocialmedia.com/wp-...age-by-age.gif

----------


## idispense

_"Hindsight.......In the past couple of weeks, I've had 4 patients that were previous CC customers that purchased their eye exam and new glasses from us. People will pay a little more for service and a professional they can consult with to answer their questions, not some customer service rep reading a scripted response over the phone. "


_

ah so you do agree, those four patients were driven to you by the internet

----------


## HindSight2020

> This shows a different picture of age demographics hindsight
> 
> http://www.ignitesocialmedia.com/wp-...age-by-age.gif


Can you actually understand and interpret English??  If you could, you would understand that I was referring to CC's actual demographic customer base, not general internet demographics.

----------


## Robert_S

I doubt that most people will buy glasses from the internet more than once. We have to make sure that the products available online are not available from us.

----------


## HindSight2020

> I doubt that most people will buy glasses from the internet more than once. We have to make sure that the products available online are not available from us.


+1 will drink to that.

----------


## idispense

> Can you actually understand and interpret English?? If you could, you would understand that I was referring to CC's actual demographic customer base, not general internet demographics.


Yes, I do understand english quite well and there is no misunderstanding that as an insult, but thats typical so don't worry you are forgiven.

 The fact is that you have absolutely no facts to back up your statement regarding what their customer demographics are. You are purely guessing. Did you surmise this conclusion from the 4 patients you saw ? Or do you have facts to indicate otherwise ?

----------


## idispense

> I doubt that most people will buy glasses from the internet more than once. We have to make sure that the products available online are not available from us.


That won't leave you very many products and it will cut you off from most major name brands. 

How do you conclude that most people will only buy once from the internet?

----------


## Robert_S

Mostly because the chances of the frame either a) looking good on them or b) fitting them are actually very low. 

I'm glad it won't leave me with so many products as I only want to stock unique collections anyway.

----------


## gibby2020

[QUOTE=idispense;453141]That won't leave you very many products and it will cut you off from most major name brands. 

Yeah it scares me not to have the names people are familiar with but it's the only way forward. I'm lucky in that I'm in a rural area, so if the consumer cant find the product in my optical then they are less likely to buy it just viewing it online. I still have some names, but bought through alternate channels. But big brands are now only 15% of my product. This will be hard to accomplish in a large city. Too bad it means a whole less independent opticals in a couple years. 
Imagine the 3 blocks on Robson St around the new CC store in two years time.  Right now there are at least 4 small opticals in the area carrying some of the same names that presumably will be in the CC store. How many will be left? What will they be selling?

Gib

----------


## HindSight2020

> Yes, I do understand english quite well and there is no misunderstanding that as an insult, but thats typical so don't worry you are forgiven.
> 
> The fact is that you have absolutely no facts to back up your statement regarding what their customer demographics are. You are purely guessing. Did you surmise this conclusion from the 4 patients you saw ? Or do you have facts to indicate otherwise ?


I receive current, validated information from various sources, unlike yourself that posts an internet demographic report from 2007 more than 6 years old.  I sure hope you don't provide web services or technical consulting as part of your offering.

----------


## idispense

Care to share the data ?

----------


## HindSight2020

> Care to share the data ?


Not with you.

----------


## idispense

If you won't share and want to take your ball and go home thats fine with me but why not try reading the data in that 2007 report  ? Where do you think that data would be today ? Would the usage numbers be higher or lower ?  Then if you would like to add in some relevant facts to support your position I'd be glad to hear your theory and solutions .

----------


## Golfnorth

> If you won't share and want to take your ball and go home thats fine with me but why not try reading the data in that 2007 report  ? Where do you think that data would be today ? Would the usage numbers be higher or lower ?  Then if you would like to add in some relevant facts to support your position I'd be glad to hear your theory and solutions .


The question you should be asking yourself is what did you do to **** off Hindsight so bad?

----------


## idispense

If someone doesn't want to share the data and just be vague that's fine but this is so far a four page conversation and the demographics referred to might be of interest to many others . It might further develop the conversation and understanding of these issues when backed by supportable stats. 

If they say they have them but don't want to share that's ok by me.

----------


## HindSight2020

> If someone doesn't want to share the data and just be vague that's fine but this is so far a four page conversation and the demographics referred to might be of interest to many others . It might further develop the conversation and understanding of these issues when backed by supportable stats. 
> 
> If they say they have them but don't want to share that's ok by me.


It's proprietary and part of my strategic growth plan, and I will only share with the right individuals when the time is right.

----------


## idispense

Ah yes now I understand, its like that movie that was filmed at the Scotia theater , what was the name ??? Oh yeah, it was something like  James Bond meets Victoria Secrets, that's the one that was filmed incamera, and James saves the world yet again from bad guys but its all hush hush, until he meets up with his boss and M whispers the secret password into his ear, then James knows for sure that she is the right one and its the right time to pass on the secret coded envelopes to M. The movie is really exciting and full of double agency stuff where no one knows who to trust and everyone is afraid to talk to anyone . 

It's ok I understand now wink, wink , nudge, nudge http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jsw_r0hILQ

----------


## Chris Ryser

Here is the solution.................................start a petition, world wide or in your corner by particiapting at:

welcome to Change.org!      

      By signing Bill Dever's petition "Petition to Stop Ethnic Cleansing in Quebec: Stop The Persecution of The English Language In Quebec" yesterday, you joined more than 15 million people using Change.org to make their world better.      Here's how Change.org works:  
*Anyone can start a petition.* Change.org lets anyone, anywhere start a petition. Its free and can be about anything you want to change.        Start your petition now.

*Together, we're powerful.* The more of us that join together in support of a campaign, the better the chance of being heard.        (You can share Bill Dever's petition now on Facebook, Twitter, or via email).      

*This works.* With support from people like you, hundreds of campaigns are won every month.        Click here to see some of the most inspiring victories.

      Every so often you can expect to hear from Change.org about campaigns we think you'll be excited to join. If youd prefer not to receive these emails, you can unsubscribe by clicking the link at the bottom of any message you receive

----------


## optimensch

Chris,

The ridiculous language patrol who are worried about the french word for PASTA and hiding the words "hold" or "redial" on a telephone, actually do a bigger disservice to the French speaking people than to any English speaker. The language laws in Quebec are more restrictive to French Quebeckers than to English speakers, my kids have gone to a bilingual school from day 1. My kids speak both languages. They can inspect all they want and attract the unwanted attention of global media, with all the social media and instant feedback I think Frau Marois' days are numbered. If the separatists only knew how much better they'd do with an attractive, charismatic, welcoming, inclusive leader who speaks English and is business minded. Nah not gonna happen. It is the ULTIMATE IRONY that these hard line Quebec=French (its own unique language, not to be confused with Continental European French) separatists, are the MOST "provincial"- minded of ALL canadians, yet they don't want to be a province anymore....maudits ethniques et leur argent. Back to eyewear. Lunettes. check out BONLOOK.com a Montreal company selling (illegally?) eyewear in Montreal to Americanos.

----------


## Chris Ryser

Optimensch ,...................... During the reign of the last separatist government they had a complaint by an employee of the wordl's largest optical corporation that we had no MSDS in french for a certain product.
That triggered them to check my website and they found out that I had no french  version and only an Ewnghlish one as per law. They gave me 3 month to translate it into French or pay a $ 9,000.00 fine. It took me 3 month to do it in bad french, but there was no law that it had to be perfect.

----------


## idispense

Removing post, off original topic

----------


## Chris Ryser

I don't think that I could influence our separatist Quebec government to give you a vote across Canada and meddling into their affairs.

----------


## idispense

Removing post,off topic,should be another thread

----------


## Chris Ryser

> Who said anything about asking them for their opinion ? 
> Are they under the impression the rest of Canada wants them to stay? 
> Maybe a Canada wide vote without them participating would open their eyes ? 
> And who is meddling into whose affairs ?
> Have they forgotten that their political affairs affect the rest of Canada ?
> Have they forgotten the rest of Canada pays for the uncertainties they create in global financial markets ? 
> 
> The rest of Canada are not the meddlers, the rest of Canada is the victim of the tail trying to wag the dog.



You could just about convert most of above question to your regulators in Ontario.................

----------


## Golfnorth

> Removing post,off topic,should be another thread


While where at it you should have removed post 79.
Don't worry you are still in first place on the Optiboarder with the most self-removed posts.
Nobody even close

----------


## Chris Ryser

Anybody who is on OB can make a mistake of any sort and type, realize it and then delete a post. The more post's he or she makes, the more times this can happen.

We should not critizise posts not made.

----------


## HindSight2020

> Removing post, off original topic


Why stop now?  You seem to hijack every thread posted.  Here's a suggestion....You should start a new thread and call it 'Canadian Optical Politics and Rants'.  This should cover you on all topics and would allow others to chime in on other threads and stay on topic.  Heck, I'm sure CC would sponsor you.

----------


## Chris Ryser

Just too bad that an otherwise good thread is getting killed by insulting each other. It shows Replies: 88,   Views: 2,546   since it was started on February 3rd and wouldbe active further if we would not deviate from its theme.

----------


## idispense

Prior to March 11, would any one like to offer their opinion on the financial results of CC for their first 1/4, perhaps .

----------


## HindSight2020

> Just too bad that an otherwise good thread is getting killed by insulting each other. It shows Replies: 88, Views: 2,546 since it was started on February 3rd and wouldbe active further if we would not deviate from its theme.


I couldn't agree more Chris.  The common deniminator (hijacker) is always the same, but heck, let's ignore that and move on....

As you recently mentioned in another thread, we must all start embracing the web and begin setting up e-commerce.  Unlike CC, it can be done legally and through a network of independents.  Heck I already have the supply chain licked with excellent pricing - all we need now is a network.  I'm thinking an independent in each local region with exclusivity rights.  Any takers?

----------


## idispense

> Just too bad that an otherwise good thread is getting killed by insulting each other. It shows Replies: 88, Views: 2,546 since it was started on February 3rd and wouldbe active further if we would not deviate from its theme.



Thats what makes  people watch hockey and buy newspapers.

----------


## HindSight2020

> Just too bad that an otherwise good thread is getting killed by insulting each other. It shows Replies: 88, Views: 2,546 since it was started on February 3rd and wouldbe active further if we would not deviate from its theme.


Interesting developments with CC happening...they're inventory levels have been decreased due to carrying costs (which makes sense), however they are also now using their inventory as security to reduce their liability and secure their $10M line of credit.

Looking at their financials, their net profit is 42% which equates into $82M in cash which seems fairly healthy for a high volume wholesale discounter. Yet, although their sales are up, their expenses have also increased and are parallel with their growth. If their system was working, their expenses (other than COGS) should be decreasing but is not.  At this rate, they will never be profitable nor out of debt. 

They are the next Titanic.

----------


## idispense

> Interesting developments with CC happening...they're inventory levels have been decreased due to carrying costs (which makes sense), however they are also now using their inventory as security to reduce their liability and secure their $10M line of credit.
> 
> Looking at their financials, their net profit is 42% which equates into $82M in cash which seems fairly healthy for a high volume wholesale discounter. Yet, although their sales are up, their expenses have also increased and are parallel with their growth. If their system was working, their expenses (other than COGS) should be decreasing but is not. At this rate, they will never be profitable nor out of debt. 
> 
> They are the next Titanic.




Whats the issue with using inventory as security? Sounds like a good plan, its probably near  worthless in a liquidation. 

Perhaps their expenses have increased but what happened with their marketshare numbers ? Aren't they still in a  buying marketshare phase  ?

----------


## HindSight2020

> Whats the issue with using inventory as security?


It says to me the bank is nervous and wants some security guarantees in the event they default.  Where is all the cash they generated from selling shares???

----------


## idispense

> It says to me the bank is nervous and wants some security guarantees in the event they default. Where is all the cash they generated from selling shares???


It says to me the bank is a bank. It also says to me the bank is silly as they will never realize full dollar in a liquidation fire sale and frames as collatral are not like cars as security. A car you can repossess, but who is going to repossess a used eyeglass frame containing used lenses with face cheese all over them ?

----------


## idispense

> It says to me the bank is nervous and wants some security guarantees in the event they default. Where is all the cash they generated from selling shares???



AS for  the proceeds of the share  sales , that would depend on how the shares were issued and sold. Were the shares issued from treasury or were the shares privately held ?

----------


## curtains1

They are back on for $38 a pair until March 25th. 
I know this is a bit off topic but I was rather upset to see a couple CURRENT Vera Wang models for $99 each with lenses.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *
> They are back on for $38 a pair until March 25th. 
> I know this is a bit off topic but I was rather upset to see a couple CURRENT Vera Wang models for $99 each with lenses.
> *



Question .......................................

Would you gain customers/consumer traffic if you would publicly sell the same for $ 99.00 each, no service included, but offer to take care of the  sold product in the way of checking and unlimited adjustmets for 1 or 2 years for an additional $ 50.00 ?

Would you be willing to give it a shot by only selling the same current Vera Wang models as a special for a limited time period to try it out ?

----------


## HindSight2020

> They are back on for $38 a pair until March 25th. 
> I know this is a bit off topic but I was rather upset to see a couple CURRENT Vera Wang models for $99 each with lenses.


Perhaps their price increase has slowed their unit sales and are going back to their roots? When your customer base consists of bottom feeder consumers, there's nowhere to go but down and a 46% price hike will surely send them running elsewhere.

I find it rather humorous - think about it...how can a company that is already the cheapest onliner with a niche market losing millions per year have a sale???  Let's have a sale and lose even more money!!??  

They probably need a quick influx of cash to keep up with those $10M loan payments while lowering their inventory levels and holding costs.

Its doomed I tell ya!

----------


## optimensch

like the old quip, they may lose only a little on each sale, but they plan to  make it up in volume!

----------


## HindSight2020

> like the old quip, they may lose only a little on each sale, but they plan to make it up in volume!


Not when your already losing your shirt...I believe it's in desperation.

----------


## optimensch

> Not when your already losing your shirt...I believe it's in desperation.


they are experiencing price compression on contacts as well. they've had to drop pricing on popular lenses due to new CANADIAN online competition. Their low hanging boys are being squeezed, even on their bread and butter contact lens business. Couldn't happen to nicer folks.

----------


## HindSight2020

> they are experiencing price compression on contacts as well. they've had to drop pricing on popular lenses due to new CANADIAN online competition. Their low hanging boys are being squeezed, even on their bread and butter contact lens business. Couldn't happen to nicer folks.


Love it...

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *they've had to drop pricing on popular lenses due to new CANADIAN online*


......................would like to know who the new competition is

----------


## optimensch

check visionpros.ca. look at aquacomfort dailies 90 pack ciba and compare with cc price. there are others, and they get 1st page google ranking. so cc is getting squeezed without a doubt. they released q1 results last night. call a medic because they are bleeding green.

----------


## optimensch

i get a quite a lot of new patients who are university students in my area. many are cc clients. my conversion rate ie. getting them to purchase cls from me, rather than cc, is 110%. the extra 10% is due to some bringing a friend and also buying glasses they hadnt planned to.

----------


## optimensch

so on $ 54 million in sales for the quarter (an impressive number indeed) CLEARLY had a net loss of $3.4 million (also very impressive). I am no accountant, no mba and i'm not a banker. I don't read a lot of income statements or a balance sheets. But this one APPEARS to be a little, just a teeny little bit, stinky.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *check visionpros.ca. look at aquacomfort dailies 90 pack ciba and compare with cc price. there are others, and they get 1st page google ranking. so cc is getting squeezed without a doubt. they released q1 results last night. call a medic because they are bleeding green.
> *



They  are also in BC:

VisionPros.ca
19138 26th Avenue
Suite 206
Surrey, BC, V3S 3V7

*Alexa Traffic Rank*
*Reputation*

1,058,402                                                                            
Global Rank             *Alexa Traffic Rank*
A rough estimate of visionpros.ca's popularity.

The rank is calculated using a combination of average daily visitors to visionpros.ca and pageviews on visionpros.ca over the past 3 months. The site with the highest combination of visitors and pageviews is ranked #1. Learn more.

*Updated Daily* 
28,745                                        
Rank inCA*Traffic Rank in Country*
A rough estimate of visionpros.ca's popularity in a specific country.

The rank by country is calculated using a combination of average daily visitors to visionpros.ca and pageviews on visionpros.ca from users from that country over the past month. The site with the highest combination of visitors and pageviews is ranked #1 in that country.

*Updated Daily*
48                                            
Sites Linking In

----------


## drk

I haven't read this whole monster thread, but doesn't it make sense that scabby websites will always pop up, undercutting the more "established" scabby websites?

I think it's a race to the bottom.  I'm staying out.

I laugh at those who are buying into this paradigm.  Like Eyeconic (VSP).  Like Frames Direct (essilor).  What losers.

----------


## Robert Martellaro

> I haven't read this whole monster thread, but doesn't it make sense that scabby websites will always pop up, undercutting the more "established" scabby websites?


The maggots burrow through the viable flesh and feast on the dead parts in zombie-like fashion. (Sorry, but the eyes popping out in the other thread got me going).

----------


## drk

I like it.

----------


## optical maven

So if they charge $48/ box of Dailies, what is their cost per box?   if they are paying the same wholesale price as the rest of us, how do they make any money?  So do they pay the same price as us, or do they get some other deal and so are making more?

----------


## drk

Gosh, I wonder how much Alcon sells these lenses for to the Chinese?  In Mexico?  I wonder how much cheaper they'd be for me to buy with my US dollars, and just ship over a boatload?

----------


## optical maven

So, I think I understand that, but how much would they pay for the lenses?  Also, these guys are located in BC.  Without sounding too naive, how do they import lenses into Canada under Alcon's nose?

----------


## idispense

> So if they charge $48/ box of Dailies, what is their cost per box?   if they are paying the same wholesale price as the rest of us, how do they make any money?  So do they pay the same price as us, or do they get some other deal and so are making more?




Why would they pay the same price as you ? Do you buy the quantity they do ? Do you have the demonstrated selling capacity they do ?

----------


## idispense

> So, I think I understand that, but how much would they pay for the lenses?  Also, these guys are located in BC.  Without sounding too naive, how do they import lenses into Canada under Alcon's nose?



Why would it be done "under Alcon's nose ?"

----------


## edKENdance

> so on $ 54 million in sales for the quarter (an impressive number indeed) CLEARLY had a net loss of $3.4 million (also very impressive). I am no accountant, no mba and i'm not a banker. I don't read a lot of income statements or a balance sheets. But this one APPEARS to be a little, just a teeny little bit, stinky.



I thought the same thing.  How can they lose so much money and be a viable business?

----------


## Judy Canty

Amazon.com failed to produce a profit for years.

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## edKENdance

> Amazon.com failed to produce a profit for years.


different model by a long shot.  I don't think amazon ever gave away low quality DVDs and books for free to entice the possibility of return business.

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## idispense

> different model by a long shot.  I don't think amazon ever gave away low quality DVDs and books for free to entice the possibility of return business.



Every company that ever lost money was giving away something!

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## Chris Ryser

While traditional optical retailers say they offer better service and quality, Mr. Hardy defends his products, saying he orders premium eyeglass lenses from South Korea, Germany, France and the United States. He expects many people who obtained free glasses to return as paying customers in future.

Some institutional investors have toured Coastal's plant, located in a technology park on Vancouver's east side, and they are pleased to see automated machines reshape glass "pucks" into lenses for specific frames, Mr. Hardy said. Workers manually fit the glass lenses into frames, but the earlier automation speeds up the production process and cuts costs.
"We find that there is a real 'aha' moment for people when they come in here and say, 'Now I get it. You have to actually manufacture.' Each order is custom-made for each person in that day, so getting the fit right and speed is part of it," Mr. Hardy said.

Coastal's Vancouver plant produces more than 4,000 pairs of eyeglasses a day for customers in North America, Australia, New Zealand and Brazil. The automated machines are capable of handling nearly 12,000 daily in Vancouver, so there is plenty of room to ramp up production.
The company sought to raise $40-million (U.S.) through an offering of common shares in November, but cancelled the plans owing to unfavourable market conditions for financing, Mr. Collins said. Still, Coastal remains keen on the large U.S. market and is well-positioned to expand its customer base south of the border in 2013. "It's a big market for us and a real opportunity," Mr. Collins said, emphasizing that he is looking ahead and not reminiscing. "I spent 14 years in politics and that was a long time. It was a great experience, but I'm happy doing what I am doing now."


See all of it -------------->    https://secure.globeadvisor.com/serv...GLASSESJANGATL

----------


## HindSight2020

> I haven't read this whole monster thread, but doesn't it make sense that scabby websites will always pop up, undercutting the more "established" scabby websites?
> 
> I think it's a race to the bottom. I'm staying out.
> 
> I laugh at those who are buying into this paradigm. Like Eyeconic (VSP). Like Frames Direct (essilor). What losers.


+1

----------


## HindSight2020

> Why would they pay the same price as you ? Do you buy the quantity they do ? Do you have the demonstrated selling capacity they do ?


Maven is just asking a simple question...no need to be rude or sarcastic.  Man, you really must have been a lonely child growing up.

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## HindSight2020

> I thought the same thing. How can they lose so much money and be a viable business?


It's an illusion - they're not viable.  Continuing to lose millions per year even while your sales are growing is not viable; they're quietly hurting.

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## HindSight2020

> Every company that ever lost money was giving away something!


Different model completely.  Is someone all out of happy pills?  Surely, somebody is giving some away.

----------


## idispense

> Maven is just asking a simple question...no need to be rude or sarcastic.  Man, you really must have been a lonely child growing up.


The answer given, was neither sarcastic or rude.

----------


## idispense

> It's an illusion - they're not viable.  Continuing to lose millions per year even while your sales are growing is not viable; they're quietly hurting.



........ And quietly growing, and growing  .......

----------


## gibby2020

> ........ And quietly growing, and growing  .......


Question is how long can un-profitable growth last! If it can last 2-3 more years then there must be a contraction in the number of B&M opticals and suppliers. Because CC and other onliners' growth comes at the expense of B&M's. 
Eg I'm not buying form the regular frame reps any longer as I can find good product by going straight to the source (China). That means less sales for reps and frame co's. So a contracting industry needs less frame distribution co's.....and many other carry on effects.
Hang on ...

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## idispense

and as they quietly grow and grow and grow and more and more enter the online unregulated game ...how much longer can regulatory bodies survive ? Will their memberships try to  sue them ?

----------


## gibby2020

> and as they quietly grow and grow and grow and more and more enter the online unregulated game ...how much longer can regulatory bodies survive ? Will their memberships try to  sue them ?


Association and college dues are an unnecessary financial burden for opticians these days. Unfortunately this means the demise of organized opticians. As less join their prof. organizations and reg. bodies--less lobbying on behalf of the profession--->negative assessment of the profession will be related to students----> less students will enroll in opticians programs. Less new blood looking to buy older opticians' businesses--->mergers or store closures--->contraction in the optical biz! The consumer will be left with less knowledgeable people in the B&M world to help when there is a problem----->higher prices for service!
As for us OD's we have the ability to generate the script but we're not safe by a long shot. There's an oversupply of us, so incomes will be heading down not just from sales lost to the net. Because of our pursuit of medical eyecare we have neglected refraction and binocular vision. Once health care is privatized we will be fighting(cutting fees) to get on insurance panels to get access to patients/customers.

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## idispense

It would be a better to keep regulation,but fix the leadership and membership problems with it.

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## idispense

> It's an illusion - they're not viable.  Continuing to lose millions per year even while your sales are growing is not viable; they're quietly hurting.


Is it an illusion that the stock price is rising ?

Not viable ?.. They have single handedly removed legislative regulation in BC and they have the other provinces immobilized. 

I'd say the only thing not viable here is all the present provincial regulators with the possible exception of Quebec. 

It would arguably be cheaper to continue to pay the present regulators, but request they stay at home. Would the net result be any different ?

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## edKENdance

lets keep the party going.  The store on Robson has been open for a few weeks. Can't find a single review.  They only committed to a 6 month lease but I find it odd that a company that's relatively ok with playing the Internet game hasn't been seeding the googles with glowing store reviews.  Warby did it.

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## HindSight2020

> lets keep the party going. The store on Robson has been open for a few weeks. Can't find a single review. They only committed to a 6 month lease but I find it odd that a company that's relatively ok with playing the Internet game hasn't been seeding the googles with glowing store reviews. Warby did it.


If the 6 month lease is true, it proves they have no long term plan and are sinking!!!

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## idispense

> If the 6 month lease is true, it proves they have no long term plan and are sinking!!!


Give them $ 10,000.00 and they will rewrite an entire provinces legislation to suit themselves and accomplish it in 90 days ! 

Opticians give Ontario Colleges 2 million per year for the last ten years which adds up to $ 20,000,000.00 and all they can accomplish is to continue to run secret incamera meetings and sue themselves! For $ 20,000,000.00 over ten years 
we have seen every excuse in the book and then some more as to why nothing can be done.

The only place there is no long term plan is with opticians and ECPs . Its time Opticians learned what the term 'change management" should mean. 

If opticians were smart they would also have a six month lease, but the six month lease would be on their own Colleges . If their management could not perform in that 6 months then they would flush them down the drain and start over with a new plan, until they find a model that does work! 

If as one suggests, there is only a 6 month lease, it shows forethought and a contingency plan, not a lack of a plan . 

Silly Opticians tie themselves into a long term lease in  downtown Toronto's hoighty toity  ivory tower district with no parking and spend hundreds of thousand to renovate it so that it can't hold visiting opticians and opticians can't see the councilors except  for their backs and visitors can't see them selves from one side of the room to the other . Now thats a lease that should have been short term ... that lease should have been shorter than the short sightedness that blew money on it. 

WE dont' have a plan ! Our $ 20,000,000.00 is not equal to their $ 10,000.00 


We have an excusemobile to feed , they have an actionmobile, which one is more effective and gets things done ?

The self governing opticians model costs/loses opticians $ 2,000,000.00 per year and generates 0 ZERO revenue , anyone know the losses for the optometry model and its revenue ? 

Would anyone care to add up the entire Canada wide cost/losses for all Optician/ECP Colleges into one lump sum and compare that to the onliners losses ?? Would anyone care to add into that the associated costs? I'll bet it exceeds the sinking ship numbers you are talking about with one onliner. 

Can anyone tell us on a nationwide basis, tell us what collective action all the Colleges could accomplish for 10,000.00 ... I'll bet collectively they couldn't hold one town meeting in Toronto for ten thousand never mind rewrite an entire provinces legislation ( or even a small village's ) .

I suggest self governing opticians and optometrsists go public on the same exchanges as the onliners and we let the public and private investors decide which shares they'd buy into. 

That will show you a sinking boat with no plan.

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## Golfnorth

> Give them $ 10,000.00 and they will rewrite an entire provinces legislation to suit themselves and accomplish it in 90 days ! 
> 
> Opticians give Ontario Colleges 2 million per year for the last ten years which adds up to $ 20,000,000.00 and all they can accomplish is to continue to run secret incamera meetings and sue themselves! For $ 20,000,000.00 over ten years 
> we have seen every excuse in the book and then some more as to why nothing can be done.
> 
> The only place there is no long term plan is with opticians and ECPs . Its time Opticians learned what the term 'change management" should mean. 
> 
> If opticians were smart they would also have a six month lease, but the six month lease would be on their own Colleges . If their management could not perform in that 6 months then they would flush them down the drain and start over with a new plan, until they find a model that does work! 
> 
> ...


Congratulations!

You win the Optiboard Broken Record Award for saying the same thing over and over again ad naseum without any thought as to if your post has anything to do with the actual thread that you're posting on.

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## Golfnorth

> If the 6 month lease is true, it proves they have no long term plan and are sinking!!!


Sounds like they are just trying this model.......throwing it against the wall to see if it will stick.
That sounds desparate to me.

Regards,
Golfnorth

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## HindSight2020

> Sounds like they are just trying this model.......throwing it against the wall to see if it will stick.
> That sounds desparate to me.
> 
> Regards,
> Golfnorth


Poop sticks!

Wish I could negotiate a 6 month lease!

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## edKENdance

> Poop sticks!
> 
> Wish I could negotiate a 6 month lease!


They could have just broken the yearly lease.

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## idispense

> Congratulations!
> 
> You win the Optiboard Broken Record Award for saying the same thing over and over again ad naseum without any thought as to if your post has anything to do with the actual thread that you're posting on.


My post has everything to to with this thread Golfnorth, it's yours that contribute nothing. Name one thing the College has accomplished in ten years with the 20,000,000.00 we gave them ? Now name the major accomplishments of the onliner In the last ten years with one one hundredth of the money ? Try that Golf.

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## Chris Ryser

> *Gi**ve them $ 10,000.00 and they will rewrite an entire provinces legislation to suit themselves and accomplish it in 90 days ! .........................................
> 
> **WE dont' have a plan ! Our $ 20,000,000.00 is not equal to their $ 10,000.00 
> 
> 
> We have an excusemobile to feed , they have an actionmobile, which one is more effective and gets things done ?
> 
> *



A superb post idispense........................................

You have the guts and the stamina to hammer the subject you believe in, to the ones that do and will not respond.  However the ones that do respond, as well as yourself are under an anonymous cover. This puts all of you into the same box that protects you from any direct hits by the ones you accuse, for any reasons.

In the meantime Coastal is a company that does have an action plan and has dispensed hundreds of thousand of pairs of glasses which you have not made and sold. If they show no profit is un-important as it may well be part of the planning. They are steam rolling their concept
through English Canada (I have not found any advertising of theirs in the French media in Quebec).

You should not rely on help by regulators which obviously seem to be a lost cause, but find solutions of your own. OptiBoard does help as it has many more viewers than posters who are picking up good ideas that come across here.

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## idispense

Getting a six month lease is not difficult, open your mouth and form the words to ask for one. That's all it takes.

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## idispense

Why break a yearly lease when you could just negotiate a six month one and not waste funds breaking a longer lease? Where is the sense in that ? Would it buy more respect from you if there was a longer term lease ? Why ?

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## idispense

> Sounds like they are just trying this model.......throwing it against the wall to see if it will stick.
> That sounds desparate to me.
> 
> Regards,
> Golfnorth



The best advertising man of our time was David Oglivy, I suggest you read  his books. This web site lists this as a quote from David Oglivy 
http://www.evancarmichael.com/Famous...vy-Quotes.html

*"The most important word in the vocabulary of advertising is TEST. Test your promise. Test your media. Test your headlines and your illustrations. Test the size of your advertisements. Test your frequency. Test your level of expenditure. Test your commercials. Never stop testing, and your advertising will never stop improving.
*
If you pretest your product with consumers, and pretest your advertising, you will do well in the marketplace."

That is exactly what this onliner is doing , testing their offer in the marketplace and refining it prior to committing to a long term lease, that is just plain good business sense, hardly a desperate action! 

They don't suffer from collegeitis! 

If self governing opticians practised the same rules they'd test their administrative hires the same way first before committing to long term contracts; they'd examine the wisdom of paying for ivory towers with no parking versus owning their own building for less money in a more accessible area and building equity rather than blowing their money against a wall of exorbitant rent: they would have sat in a playing field and taped out on grass their meeting room and table layouts and known in advance how bad and silly their renovations were. 

Pretesting makes sense, it's practical, it's reasonable, it's logical !

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## idispense

[QUOTE=Golfnorth;457454]Sounds like they are just trying this model.......throwing it against the wall to see if it will stick.
That sounds desparate to me.

Regards,
Golfnorth[/

"Desperate" occurs when ECPs  seek funding and donations from the on liners.

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## Chris Ryser

There is no use to argue on small things while the consumers flock to on-liners to purchase less expensive. Use positive thinking to find a way to get the consumers back and not have any more flocking to the on line businesses in the future before it is too late.

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## idispense

This is not their first effort into retail, they are experimenting in other countries as well. This article is clear about their efforts to test the marketing plans:

http://strategyonline.ca/2013/02/14/...-mortar-store/

“There is a bleed over as online [retailers] go offline and [vice versa],” says Magness. “Whether you call it a showroom or a store, what we’re really trying to do is find the needs of our customers. We’re taking this as an opportunity to get to know our customers, and provide another outlet to engage customers while enhancing the online shopping experience.”






Read more: http://strategyonline.ca/2013/02/14/...#ixzz2QX733y5l

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## idispense

ECPs are already partnering with on liners, how could anyone expect to stop its further advancement or enforce existing regulations ?

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## Chris Ryser

> *..................... how could anyone expect to stop its further advancement ............................*



1) By changing your business model to sell at cost. 

2) Charge service fees for time used working for the consumer, similar to lawyers, accountants, elctricians, plumbers and more.

3) Buy your sample frames outright at your own risk at best prices and cover only factory warranty against manufacturing defaults.

4) As sales reps to see discontinued frame at rock bottom prices and keep a selection of those as samples

5) Apply the same for lenses, no free exchange if consumer does not like what he chooses.

6) Do as much of the finishing work in house you can in house instaed of farming out to a lab.

7) Charge for all and any repairs done for consumers

8) Accept and promote and encourage your services, on purchases made from from or by any other competitor for a fee.

9) Do not include any service after sale, in your selling price. Only correct your mistakes or errors as warranty.

By following above principle you will be able to purchase your goods at much better prices sell them at lower and competitive
prices and make your profit not by the product you are selling but by the quality service you are offering and will be a winner
over the ones that can not, or will not provide it.

You have to shed the image that you a selling a medical product when others advertise it, by hammering on prices and get away 
by regulators that are totally powerless in will, nor action. This has become a power struggle of pricing, not professionalismus.
Use your professional know how as a base for your income and not the product you are selling.

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## idispense

Although good points by Chris, the fallacy of it is that the suppliers will raise their prices at will to you. You will lower your prices to compete against your own suppliers who will raise their prices at will to you after you have been pared down to the basics of nothing. 

Ask your "powers that be" to explain to you who owns each of the on liners. Ask at your next meetings to see the research that should list the name of each onliner and show you the ownership of each onliner. 

Then ask "your powers that be" if it is legal for search engines to enable your local applicable laws to be violated. Then ask them why some search engines were successfully fined 500 million dollars , then insist they produce the paperwork to prove they are actively pursuing the same path.

Ask your "powers  that be" if any entity in the entire world has the legal right to break your local applicable laws and profit from doing so ? Ask why any search engine should be allowed to do so ? 

Are you self governing or not , which is it ? 

If you are self governing then you have a duty to know these answers and expect that the people you voted in and hired will know these basic answers and already have these answers at their finger tips, otherwise how could they realistically do the job? Ask to see their research on this matter and the answers. Ask to see the list, and all paperwork.

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## Chris Ryser

[QUOTE=idispense;457793]

*Although good points by Chris, the fallacy of it is that the suppliers will raise their prices at will to you. You will lower your prices to compete against your own suppliers who will raise their prices at will to you after you have been pared down to the basics of nothing. 
*
[/QUOTE]


Actually if you follow my above points the supplier will lower the prices, which for the last 20 years have been heavily inflated because of the consignment scene and all the warranties requested by the optical retail trade.

----------


## edKENdance

looks like the stock is gonna drop below 6 bucks tomorrow.

----------


## Chris Ryser

Last C$5.92 CAD
Change Today -0.15 / -2.47%
Volume 3.4K

----------


## edKENdance

The stock is still dropping even though this http://www.stockhouse.com/news/canad...aspx?n=8826648 as well as opening facilities in Washington as well as apparently setting up a huge deal with 3 insurance companies.

----------


## HindSight2020

> Although good points by Chris, the fallacy of it is that the suppliers will raise their prices at will to you. You will lower your prices to compete against your own suppliers who will raise their prices at will to you after you have been pared down to the basics of nothing. 
> 
> Ask your "powers that be" to explain to you who owns each of the on liners. Ask at your next meetings to see the research that should list the name of each onliner and show you the ownership of each onliner. 
> 
> Then ask "your powers that be" if it is legal for search engines to enable your local applicable laws to be violated. Then ask them why some search engines were successfully fined 500 million dollars , then insist they produce the paperwork to prove they are actively pursuing the same path.
> 
> Ask your "powers that be" if any entity in the entire world has the legal right to break your local applicable laws and profit from doing so ? Ask why any search engine should be allowed to do so ? 
> 
> Are you self governing or not , which is it ? 
> ...


This b-b-b-b-b-broken record has been spun more times than my lazy Susan.

----------


## HindSight2020

> The stock is still dropping even though this http://www.stockhouse.com/news/canad...aspx?n=8826648 as well as opening facilities in Washington as well as apparently setting up a huge deal with 3 insurance companies.


It will eventually be a dead stock - it's almost there now.

----------


## idispense

> It will eventually be a dead stock - it's almost there now.


Ah, so that is why they are expanding because their stock is dead : 

http://www.4-traders.com/COASTAL-CON...lity-16797482/


I imagine you will be table top dancing on your lazy Susan with golf north shortly.  How long do you think it will be before the celebration ?

----------


## HindSight2020

> Ah, so that is why they are expanding because their stock is dead : 
> 
> http://www.4-traders.com/COASTAL-CON...lity-16797482/
> 
> 
> I imagine you will be table top dancing on your lazy Susan with golf north shortly. How long do you think it will be before the celebration ?


Their stock keeps falling despite their efforts and expansion.  In most cases, these types of occurances in business usually create confidence in it's shareholders and causes the stock to increase in value and demand - but clearly is not happening here.


As for your other comments, we shall leave those for grade school, where they are best suited.

----------


## idispense

> Their stock keeps falling despite their efforts and expansion.  In most cases, these types of occurances in business usually create confidence in it's shareholders and causes the stock to increase in value and demand - but clearly is not happening here.
> 
> 
> As for your other comments, we shall leave those for grade school, where they are best suited.



Stock price is not a good indicator of when or if a company will ever go out of business. Ford was at 16.00 in 2003 and below 2.00 in 2009 but they are very much still in business today.  As is GM and Chrysler. Blackberry or RIM as it used to be called, was trading over 150.00 a few years ago then dipped to under 2.00 but has now rebounded to 16.00.

Stock prices are like your lazy susan, they go round and round. Some even go up and down as they go around. 

There are better indicators than stock price.

----------


## HindSight2020

> Stock price is not a good indicator of when or if a company will ever go out of business. Ford was at 16.00 in 2003 and below 2.00 in 2009 but they are very much still in business today. As is GM and Chrysler. Blackberry or RIM as it used to be called, was trading over 150.00 a few years ago then dipped to under 2.00 but has now rebounded to 16.00.
> 
> Stock prices are like your lazy susan, they go round and round. Some even go up and down as they go around. 
> 
> There are better indicators than stock price.


Still in business yes, but the stock is still worth nothing.  Deflating to the point just above zero for any stock is an absolute joke.  These companies will never achieve the levels again they were once proudly bragging of.  It is rather humbling for them I'm sure.

Hope your next career isn't giving advice as a stockbroker.

----------


## idispense

[QUOTE=HindSight2020;458943]Still in business yes, but the stock is still worth nothing.  Deflating to the point just above zero for any stock is an absolute joke.  These companies will never achieve the levels again they were once proudly bragging of.  It is rather humbling for them I'm sure.

Hope your next career isn't giving advice as a stockbroker.[/ 

Nice grade school dig ! 

A company  raises capital when it sells securities in the primary market. Subsequent trading occurs in the secondary marketplace and determines what the price of the stock is and who owns the stock. The stock may become worthless in the new owners hands but it does not mean the company will go out of business. 

Some people thought it was finished when it lost that court case , but instead it rewrote opticians legislation to favor it's own business model  ... SURPRISE !! It also over ruled the provincial judges ... SURPRISE !!!

----------


## HindSight2020

[QUOTE=idispense;458944]


> Still in business yes, but the stock is still worth nothing. Deflating to the point just above zero for any stock is an absolute joke. These companies will never achieve the levels again they were once proudly bragging of. It is rather humbling for them I'm sure.
> 
> Hope your next career isn't giving advice as a stockbroker.[/ 
> 
> Nice grade school dig ! 
> 
> A company raises capital when it sells securities in the primary market. Subsequent trading occurs in the secondary marketplace and determines what the price of the stock is and who owns the stock. The stock may become worthless in the new owners hands but it does not mean the company will go out of business. 
> 
> Some people thought it was finished when it lost that court case , but instead it rewrote opticians legislation to favor it's own business model ... SURPRISE !! It also over ruled the provincial judges ... SURPRISE !!!


Gary, stick to what you know...which isn't selling stocks or optical stores.

----------


## Chris Ryser

While you are arguing over stock values......................they are and have been selling glasses in the millions, and those are all glasses that you have not sold.

Obviously the professional regulations are not working anymore, and politicians do not care about the optical retail market. So it has become a wide open playing field. 

Frame and lens manufacturers are not loosing any sales and don't care who sells their products as long as it sells, so you have no support from that side. Actually some of them are well integrated into on-line opticals on a world wide basis.

----------


## optimensch

I agree Chris - suppliers are playing all sides, they sell to whoever has $, they couldn't care about independents one iota. That's true across the board from Vistakon to Essilor to Lux. Why should they? they respond to stockholders and no one else.
We are pretty busy and have introduced new offers and marketing strategies which are making a difference. Using the webstores (CC, WP), costco and the big chains own marketing strategies against them, and it seems to be paying off. Let them spend $$ and we piggy back. It isn't complicated really.

----------


## Joe Zewe

> While you are arguing over stock values......................they are and have been selling glasses in the millions, and those are all glasses that you have not sold.
> 
> Obviously the professional regulations are not working anymore, and politicians do not care about the optical retail market. So it has become a wide open playing field. 
> 
> Frame and lens manufacturers are not loosing any sales and don't care who sells their products as long as it sells, so you have no support from that side. Actually some of them are well integrated into on-line opticals on a world wide basis.


Chris is right on.  Regarding the future collapse of Coastal, they did an offering about a month ago and raised $20 million which included the exercise of the shoe (over allotment).  This tells me there are people who invest for a living that believe in the viability of their business.

----------


## drk

Mensch, how are you doing it, specifically, please?

----------

