# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  Crizal v. Crizal Alize

## uluvbs

For the same price, which do you prefer and why?  Is Crizal Alize really that much easier to clean/keep clean?

Thank you.

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## For-Life

> For the same price, which do you prefer and why? Is Crizal Alize really that much easier to clean/keep clean?
> 
> Thank you.


 
Alize is much much more easier to clean.  

I only use Alize.  From switching from Crizal to Alize I have strengthened my customer base.

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## Chris Ryser

> *For the same price, which do you prefer and why? Is Crizal Alize really that much easier to clean/keep clean?* 
> Thank you.


It contains a sealer above the AR coating layer which seals the spaces between the microscopic gaps if the surface. Therefore dirt and grease can not penetrate into those gaps. Easy to clean..........just wash or wipe off the dirt.......no more need for those micro cloth.

*However the ALIZE principle is not the latest technique available on the market. There are sealers available that serve the same basic purpose but with some more added benefits as anti-fogging properties ............and ant-static properties.........less attraction and retaining of dust.*

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## uluvbs

neither REDUCES optical quality, correct?

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## Chris Ryser

> *neither REDUCES optical quality, correct?*


neither does, correct !!!!!!!!!!

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## cinders831

I much prefer crizal.  I have had trouble with alize crazing and have much more lens returns.  I will say when it comes to Ar's I still prefer Acclaro from Toledo Optical, cleans better, wears longer.

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## For-Life

> I much prefer crizal. I have had trouble with alize crazing and have much more lens returns. I will say when it comes to Ar's I still prefer Acclaro from Toledo Optical, cleans better, wears longer.


They are the exact same lens (Crizal and Alize), only one is oliphobic and one is not.  It is just an added top layer.

Anyways, since we have been doing them I have had hardly any crazing problem.  Shows you that it is all who manufacturers them.

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## Happylady

We have had 2 Alizes craze from heat. One was a man cooking over an outside grill. The heat from the grill crazed the lenses. 

I read/was told that the top coating on the Alize makes it slightly less scratch resistant. Has anyone else heard this?

I was just told yesterday the the Carat Advantage is less scratch resistant but easier to clean then the Carat. The salesman from the lab told me this.

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## For-Life

> We have had 2 Alizes craze from heat. One was a man cooking over an outside grill. The heat from the grill crazed the lenses. 
> 
> I read/was told that the top coating on the Alize makes it slightly less scratch resistant. Has anyone else heard this?
> 
> I was just told yesterday the the Carat Advantage is less scratch resistant but easier to clean then the Carat. The salesman from the lab told me this.


Well in a way you get less scratching because since it is easier to clean there is less dirt and dust that gets rubbed into the surface.

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## Pete Hanlin

There is no technical reason for Crizal Alize to be less scratch resistant compared to Crizal.  I am unaware of any complaints to Market Quality regarding systemic reduction in scratch resistance.

Regarding crazing, it is possible that a laboratory may attempt to reduce "slippage" in the edger, which could lead to crazing (depending on the crazing pattern, it is fairly easy to determine the specific cause of the crazing).  Increased clamping pressure should not be necessary, however, as the pad control system (the blue temporary coating) is extremely effective in controlling slippage.

Crazing in heat will depend upon the substrate's tendancy to expand in heat.  Frame warmers (or heat from grills) will cause the substrate to expand to a greater degree than the underlying SRC and oxides in the AR stack- especially polycarbonate.

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## spartus

I've crazed one or two in a frame warmer, and have since learned my lesson. No problems since then. 

We've switched entirely over to from Crizal to Alize whenever possible, and the redos are pretty negligible--in fact, most of the Crizal redos I get are 18 months or older, and mostly look like they've been treated fairly roughly.

On my glasses, I have one Crizal and one Alize lens--Nassau was out of stock of one power when I ordered, and I got impatient. I can feel the difference when I clean them (Alize's slipperier ), but as far as cleanability, they're just about the same. Alize's better, but not stunningly so. Water beads a little differently on them, too.

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## For-Life

See I find that I can clean the Alize in one swipe.  With Crizal I have to work at it.

Also things like finger prints would ruin your day with Crizal where I find that I hardly get them on a Alize.

With Crizal I had to clean them several times a day, with alize I have to clean them every few days.

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## philbert

> Crazing in heat will depend upon the substrate's tendancy to expand in heat. Frame warmers (or heat from grills) will cause the substrate to expand to a greater degree than the underlying SRC and oxides in the AR stack- especially polycarbonate.


 



> I've crazed one or two in a frame warmer, and have since learned my lesson. No problems since then.


Does this mean that when my new eyeglasses with the Crizal Alize coating arrive, the optician should not use a frame warmer to adjust my frames to fit?

Also, I was advised to go with polycarbonate lenses for the rimless frame I selected as, I was told, plastic would splinter if drilled.  Was that just a line to get me to spend more money?  And is the combination of polycarbonate and Crizal Alize a bad idea?

Thanks,
Phil

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## For-Life

> Does this mean that when my new eyeglasses with the Crizal Alize coating arrive, the optician should not use a frame warmer to adjust my frames to fit?
> 
> Also, I was advised to go with polycarbonate lenses for the rimless frame I selected as, I was told, plastic would splinter if drilled. Was that just a line to get me to spend more money? And is the combination of polycarbonate and Crizal Alize a bad idea?
> 
> Thanks,
> Phil


Phil, put your mind at ease.  I do a lot of Alize with Poly and it has not come back on me.  There is no problem with using the frame warmer as long as you are careful.  I suspect as always that the problem lenses were manufacturer troubles.

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## Happylady

> Does this mean that when my new eyeglasses with the Crizal Alize coating arrive, the optician should not use a frame warmer to adjust my frames to fit?
> 
> Also, I was advised to go with polycarbonate lenses for the rimless frame I selected as, I was told, plastic would splinter if drilled. Was that just a line to get me to spend more money? And is the combination of polycarbonate and Crizal Alize a bad idea?
> 
> Thanks,
> Phil


When I heat a frame in the frame warmer(and only plastic fronts need to be heated, not metal) I shield ar lenses with my hand from the heat. Or I take them out.

Back in the early and mid eighties when rimless was popular we used standard plastic for drill mounts all the time. It IS more likely to break then poly, though. Poly or Trivex is the better choice. We don't use standard plastic anymore.

Poly and Alize are great togeather. A very nice lens.

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## spartus

The one (or two--can't remember, since it was the same patient's lens twice--oops  :shiner: ) time(s) I did it was entirely my fault. I still haven't managed to do it since.

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## Lewy

In the last week I have had 5 pairs of Alize lenses that have scratched when cleaning them and 2 sets returned by clients with fine scratches after only 2 weeks wear! I am now hesitant to use the coating at all. Does anyone know how the Zeiss Lutotec coating compares?


Lewy

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## Chris Ryser

> *Also, I was advised to go with polycarbonate lenses for the rimless frame I selected as, I was told, plastic would splinter if drilled. Was that just a line to get me to spend more money? And is the combination of polycarbonate and Crizal Alize a bad idea?* 
> Thanks,
> Phil


None of the materials will splinter if properly done. Rimless frame and lenses have been around since the early 1900's and used to be mounted with glass..........which was a lot more brittle than any of the new materials today.

Also polycarbonate holes can be protected after drilling with easily available products that will seal and rips occuring while drilling.

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## Lewy

IMHO Poly is a very poor material. I have stopped using it as much as I can. I have even had full metal rim specs returned with the lenses splintering on the edge. Essilor said it was poor glazing when I returned them to them, well you glazed them I replied!! I shall stick with Stylis (1.67) for the time being.

Lewy

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## rinselberg

> In the last week I have had 5 pairs of Alize lenses that have scratched when cleaning them and 2 sets returned by clients with fine scratches after only 2 weeks wear! I am now hesitant to use the coating at all. Does anyone know how the Zeiss Lutotec coating compares?


The Zeiss LotuTec AR package is called "Zeiss Carat Advantage" in the U.S. If you go to the OptiBoard Search page and search with keywords CARAT ADVANTAGE, Search Entire Posts and Show Results as Posts, you will turn up a number of favorable comments about Zeiss Carat Advantage. I don't think that anyone on OptiBoard has said that they are dissatisfied with it, or think that it is not as good as Crizal Alize.

As always, let me remind anyone reading this post that I am not an optician and that I am only offering my interpretation of what I have read online about these products, mostly here on OptiBoard.

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## Happylady

> The Zeiss LotuTec AR package is called "Zeiss Carat Advantage" in the U.S. If you go to the OptiBoard Search page and search with keywords CARAT ADVANTAGE, Search Entire Posts and Show Results as Posts, you will turn up a number of favorable comments about Zeiss Carat Advantage. I don't think that anyone on OptiBoard has said that they are dissatisfied with it, or think that it is not as good as Crizal Alize.
> 
> As always, let me remind anyone reading this post that I am not an optician and that I am only offering my interpretation of what I have read online about these products, mostly here on OptiBoard.


The Carat Advantage is great and I like the fact that I can use it on any lens, however the warranty my lab offers on it is no where near as good as Crizal. With Crizal replacements are unlimited while with Carat it is one time.

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## AWTECH

> Regarding crazing, it is possible that a laboratory may attempt to reduce "slippage" in the edger, which could lead to crazing (depending on the crazing pattern, it is fairly easy to determine the specific cause of the crazing). Increased clamping pressure should not be necessary, however, as the pad control system (the blue temporary coating) is extremely effective in controlling slippage.


As Pete Hanlin stated I would also agree that many problems that are referred to as bad AR may be the result of bad edging.

With our new ICE-TECH Advanced Polarized Rx lenses we edge after AR, (with the correct clamping pressure), then apply our FREE-ICE, (which is our Super Hydrophobic, in the catagory of the "Alize').

Edging the more slippery hydrophobics causes many people to increase clamping pressure, which in turn causes AR cracking to occur.  Most of the time this cracking will not show up for a month or two.  Excess stress is induced during clamping and the problem shows up months later.  This is why many people are now claiming that one AR coating is not as good as another.

This tread started comparing the standard Crizal to the Crizal Alize.  You can see how the clamping pressure could have caused someone to conclude the one without Alize had a better AR.

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## For-Life

Yes, but with the Alize there is no reason to increase the clamping pressure, because it has the Azure no slippage coating.  I never had a slip (I do not know why anyone else does not use that coating).

The only thing is when edging poly you have to make sure you have low pressure and put a chuck pad on each side.  Also, make sure you use a small chuck, not a large one.

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