# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  Essilor Varilux versus Hoya PALs, which is better?

## Journey

We have been successfully dispensing the Essilor Ideal Advanced as our entry-level PAL, and the Varilux X as our top-tier lens, for years. A new HOYA rep has offered aggressive pricing on "Hoya ID Lifestyle3" and "Hoya ID Mystyle2" PALs, but being unfamiliar with HOYA products, I have no point of reference. I'm 39 and not yet in a PAL myself, so I appreciate other folks' impressions of these lenses. 

*if* these HOYA lenses are similar in softness, low non-adapt rates, etc, we can save a bunch of money by switching.  If it turns out they're even better than what we've been using, then win-win.

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## Lab Insight

> We have been successfully dispensing the Essilor Ideal Advanced as our entry-level PAL, and the Varilux X as our top-tier lens, for years. A new HOYA rep has offered aggressive pricing on "Hoya ID Lifestyle3" and "Hoya ID Mystyle2" PALs, but being unfamiliar with HOYA products, I have no point of reference. I'm 39 and not yet in a PAL myself, so I appreciate other folks' impressions of these lenses. 
> 
> *if* these HOYA lenses are similar in softness, low non-adapt rates, etc, we can save a bunch of money by switching.  If it turns out they're even better than what we've been using, then win-win.


Why on earth would you fix what isn't broken?  And for a new rep?  Hoya is famous for dropping their drawers to gain access.  Then they will raise the prices within 6 months.

A. You won't save a bunch of money in the end trust me - the savings if any is short term
B. They're equivalent products, not better

A lateral move and all the work involved makes no sense.

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## AngeHamm

> Why on earth would you fix what isn't broken?  And for a new rep?  Hoya is famous for dropping their drawers to gain access.  Then they will raise the prices within 6 months.
> 
> A. You won't save a bunch of money in the end trust me - the savings if any is short term
> B. They're equivalent products, not better
> 
> A lateral move and all the work involved makes no sense.


+1. I love Hoya lenses, but you're already working with two of the best products in the Essilor line. You're just asking for non-adapts, and the long-term financial benefit is doubtful. You may be able to use Hoya's offer to negotiate costs with your Essilor lab rep.

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## CCGREEN

Most all of my experience with Hoya products has been negative so therefore I have always used Essilor. I have come across some patients that use a Hoya and do not seem to adapt to a essilor lens.
I can say that I have had patients come from the dark side (hoya) having difficulty's and I put them straight into a Varilux X and they never have a issue regardless of the add power. But I have never taken anyone from a Essilor product and put them in Hoya and have any success.

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## Uilleann

There are two things to bear in mind with Hoya: 1. lens quality  2. support quality.

They're weak on both in my own experience, though the PALS they offer are mediocre in my own subjective opinion, their customer service, general quality, job speed, warranty/remakes, were all really poor.  They aren't the company I remember from 20 years ago.

Neither Essilor or Hoya are cheap when it comes to their newest PAL designs, but I will also second that they are by FAR the most expensive lab we have to deal with if doing any sort of private work.  Their pricing is rather silly - even after the supposed "discounts" they offer in the beginning.  To each their own, but I would suggest a large amount of caution if you proceed with their lab work and products.

Good luck!

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## AngeHamm

> Most all of my experience with Hoya products has been negative so therefore I have always used Essilor. I have come across some patients that use a Hoya and do not seem to adapt to a essilor lens.
> I can say that I have had patients come from the dark side (hoya) having difficulty's and I put them straight into a Varilux X and they never have a issue regardless of the add power. But I have never taken anyone from a Essilor product and put them in Hoya and have any success.


I've never worn Hoya PALs, but my patients who wore them were just as happy with them as they were with any other brand. In fact, the Lifestyle 2 became my go-to lens for patients who had previously had problems with progressives.

That said, my Varilux X lenses are my very favorite progressives.

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## Scooter224

Several years ago we tried Hoya lenses because of the price. It did not work. Had to take back 20-30% of all glasses. It was almost impossible to change customers that had Essilor glasses to Hoya progressives.

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## Optical Roy

I worked in a heavy Hoya Optical for years, wore the GP Wide for years, thought I couldn't adapt to change. Came to a new office who is Essilor Heavy and I tried the Varilux X, stay with Essilor.

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## Robert_S

1. You should be avoiding essilor at all costs. They are your direct competitor. Buying their lenses is literally giving money to your competition. 

2. Hoya are excellent quality, but my opinion is only valid in the European market. 

3. Find someone else, Zeiss maybe, if you aren't sold on Hoya. Just get away from Essilor.

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## Kwill212

> I worked in a heavy Hoya Optical for years, wore the GP Wide for years, thought I couldn't adapt to change. Came to a new office who is Essilor Heavy and I tried the Varilux X, stay with Essilor.





> I agree, Luxottica is the enemy. they about drove Oakley into the  ground. Only 2 Luxottica lines here and niether of them is Oakley...lol


Lux is the enemy, but somehow Essilor isn't? I wouldn't be able to reconcile these statements before the merger, now they are one in the same.

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## Optical Roy

I know, just seen where Costa was bought by Essilor which was bought by Luxottica.

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## Robert_S

I'm currently at a huge Zeiss conference in Berlin (many board members of Zeiss group here) where last night they announced they will *never* compete against the independent optician, as Essilor does.

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## Jubilee

I personally like the Hoya Lenses. I have had the most "wow" responses with the MyStyle 2, and for vision plan orders, the Lifestyle 3. I would put it up against the Varilux X any day. 

I have been using Hoya, in addition to my IOT & Shamir for over a year now. I have not had any non adapts, and they have kept my pricing the same since day 1. There are some great packages that are on par with Walman's ProLens series that makes Hoya a competitive solution. EX3 is the best AR in my opinion. Stays easy to clean, even 8-9 months out, and have not had a patient come back with a coating complaint/issue. Not even scratched lenses. 

I also am impressed with how much the Duravision Platinum is an improvement over the Purecoat series from Zeiss. They always had good lenses. They are also offering aggressive pricing. However the couple of forays I had with them left much to be desired on the customer service end. Then again, it could just be the rep spoiling it.

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## scaliger

I've always sworn by Hoya MyStyle (after a bad experience with Varilux Physio360), but an optician colleague swears by Varilux physio enhanced with eye code. What I've read in this forum about Hoya gives me pause … but I have to say that all of the Crizal coating options seem gimmicky and just a way to make money. 

Is MyStyle 2 the way to go, or are the Varilux physio enhanced with eyecode just as good or better?

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## ePii

Find a good independent lab with a top tier proprietary design. Every one knows the same technology and you can get a lens comparable to the most expensive lenses out there for less than 1/3 the price. Sell it at the same premium you would sell the X or ID and make more money. I will say it does need to be an independent lab because low tier designs from E/H/Z etc. are intentionally handicapped so that they can still sell there more expensive designs.

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