# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  Problem with hoyalux FD 1.6

## Win C

Recently fitted a pair of Hoya FD1.6 short corridor design. When patient put on his new prescription, he complained that the distance vision is not clear when looking straight ahead. no problem with near vision. he mentioned that distance vision is clearer if he tilts his head down. 

His old lens is essilor comfort 1.6. Rx is almost if not exactly the same for the distance with an increase in near add. 

PD is accurate. prescription on the FD is also same as prescribed. I do not think the Rx is inaccurate as he said it;s clear when I put the Rx into the trial frame. 

So what could be the problem?

So far I would say I am not quite happy with FD as I get s few similar problems too with this lens in the past.

----------


## Happylady

I am not familar with this particular Hoya product but I had a pair of Hoya CD lenses and I had the same problem with them. Some progressives just work better if you drop them slightly from pupil center. This could be one of them.

If the frame has nosepads you can probably adjust it down slightly. Is it possible to switch him back to the Comfort?

----------


## xiaowei

> Recently fitted a pair of Hoya FD1.6 short corridor design. When patient put on his new prescription, he complained that the distance vision is not clear when looking straight ahead. no problem with near vision. he mentioned that distance vision is clearer if he tilts his head down. 
> 
> His old lens is essilor comfort 1.6. Rx is almost if not exactly the same for the distance with an increase in near add.





> I am not familar with this particular Hoya product but I had a pair of Hoya CD lenses and I had the same problem with them. Some progressives just work better if you drop them slightly from pupil center. This could be one of them.


Maybe this short corridor lens is simply not as clear in the lower distance area as the patient was used to in the comfort due to softer design and needs to first get accustomed to?:idea:

----------


## au

Can you tell what is the RX ?
The Hoyalux Fd is a pretty good lens already, the difference between id and Fd is the adjustable distance and near pd.

I suggest check the lens by Hoya and Redo it. I prescribe the lens a lot. Should be much better than comfort in low add, however in high add, the difference may not be huge.

 It is a double surface pal, cannot compare with cd, the side should be much better than cd. I tried the same RX, same frame, same lens and same corridor, the add 2.25, the pt. unacceptable in cd but the fd she loves it really much.

By the way do you know the lens are made in Thailand !

Hope this help.
:cheers:

----------


## Win C

> I am not familar with this particular Hoya product but I had a pair of Hoya CD lenses and I had the same problem with them. Some progressives just work better if you drop them slightly from pupil center. This could be one of them.
> 
> If the frame has nosepads you can probably adjust it down slightly. Is it possible to switch him back to the Comfort?


I have already dropped the fitting ht by about 1mm and when he said its blur, he was actually looking about 2mm above the fitting cross. when he tilt his head down and said it's clear, he was actually looking about 4mm above the fitting cross. Having said that, i put an -0.25 to his rx, he said it's clearer. However, it doesn't explain the fact that when he look thru the same prescription thru the trial frame, it's clearer than the prescribed lens. So i am just wondering what could be wrong.  
This is not the first time I have this problem with this Hoya FD.

By the way, when we measure the dist power of a progressive lens, we usually measure it slightly above the fitting cross where they have the marking. However, at the fitting cross, are we supposed to get the prescribed power?

----------


## Robert Martellaro

> I have already dropped the fitting ht by about 1mm and when he said its blur, he was actually looking about 2mm above the fitting cross. when he tilt his head down and said it's clear, he was actually looking about 4mm above the fitting cross.


When dispensing this lens (In the US it's called ID Lifestyle CD), or any PAL, my clients report clear vision when gazing at a distance object (more than six meters) with a relaxed distance posture, and can not improve the vision by lifting or lowering their chin. That's in bright light with normal size pupils for this age group. There may be some flare at night, along with some blur when looking down slightly, for instance when looking at the license plate of a car stopped in front of you. This usually disappears after a week or so. However, if you lay on the floor or sit back in the easy chair, the TV will be blurred. 




> Having said that, i put an -0.25 to his rx, he said it's clearer. However, it doesn't explain the fact that when he look thru the same prescription thru the trial frame, it's clearer than the prescribed lens.


Does he like -.25 over the SV lenses also? Is the Rx changing towards less minus or more plus? Make sure he's had enough wear time to adapt, accommodation wise. FYI, my SV sunglasses have slightly clearer distance vision than my short corridor general purpose glasses. Moreover, I don't like -.25 over my PALs at distance, and with -.50 over my vision becomes very poor (+2.25 Add). If your client still likes the extra -.25 by the next morning (maybe two or three days for slower eyes) then I would look at the Rx again.      




> By the way, when we measure the dist power of a progressive lens, we usually measure it slightly above the fitting cross where they have the marking. However, at the fitting cross, are we supposed to get the prescribed power?


Depending on the design, it will probably read too much plus at the FC. Use the template or go about 5mm above the cross.

----------


## amr.mohamed

i think the problem is the diffrent generation 
that essilor comfort is 4mm starting prism effect and hoya is 2mm
ithink thats the problem

----------


## Freedom

If you check power at the fitting cross level ...
you will found ... the power is under minus 0.25 D. alway
because this is the nature of HOYA PALs.

HOYA ID is same problem.

You can meet correct Rx. power at about 3 or 4 mm. above fitting cross.

I have ever found this problem with patient that prefer to wear fix position of eye glass.
I correct by ... reorder and order over minus 0.25 D. and increase add 0.25 D too.
The patient happy .....

Good luck.

----------


## Fezz

> i think the problem is the diffrent generation 
> that essilor comfort is 4mm starting prism effect and hoya is 2mm
> ithink thats the problem


 
Really?
Are you talking from the fitting cross to the prism referrence point? If so, I believe the Hoya line of progressive are all based on a 4mm drop/or difference from fitting cross to prim referrence point.

----------


## optical24/7

> Really?
> Are you talking from the fitting cross to the prism referrence point? If so, I believe the Hoya line of progressive are all based on a 4mm drop/or difference from fitting cross to prim referrence point.


 
Your right about the ref. point vs fitting point fezz, but I don't know if that's what mohamed was reffering to... As far as the patient seeing clearer with his head held down, have you check for panto tilt? Try 10 degrees or so.

----------


## Win C

> If you check power at the fitting cross level ...
> you will found ... the power is under minus 0.25 D. alway
> because this is the nature of HOYA PALs.
> 
> HOYA ID is same problem.
> 
> You can meet correct Rx. power at about 3 or 4 mm. above fitting cross.
> 
> I have ever found this problem with patient that prefer to wear fix position of eye glass.
> ...


Hi ,
I believe u fit a lot of Hoya as well? Cos Hoya have a big factory in thailand. 

I believe what you said is true, that hoya lens are 0.25 less minus at the fitting cross. This is the nature of of Hoya lens but it's not like that for other makes, am I right to say that? I measured varilux comfort (customer previous pair) at the fitting cross and the power is as prescribed. 

I guess adding -0.25 to the distance Rx and adding +0.25 for the near would be best choice as compared to lowering the fitting height. 

By the way, do you order -0.25 more minus for the distance for all your hoya progressive lens that you prescribed?  

Thanks

----------


## Win C

> Your right about the ref. point vs fitting point fezz, but I don't know if that's what mohamed was reffering to... As far as the patient seeing clearer with his head held down, have you check for panto tilt? Try 10 degrees or so.


I have checked the panto tilt. But it's not practical as it has to be bent alot and it's not easy to bend the frame. 

So I guess a remake with -0.25 more to the distance would be best solution.:cheers:

----------


## Freedom

> Hi ,
> By the way, do you order -0.25 more minus for the distance for all your hoya progressive lens that you prescribed? 
> 
> Thanks


NOT ALL CASE ... This way for patient ... 
1. That like wear the glass with fix position on the face.
2. In case that have frame high not much for fexible movement.

I used this solution about 80&#37; of case.

----------


## Win C

Has anyone else fitted Hoyalux FD (hoyalux ID lifestyle) besides me? 

I am still getting this problem where patient complain that distance is not clear. And when I ask the patient to tilt his head down until he thinks the distance vision is clear, it's about 3 mm (sometimes more) above the fitting cross. 

Out of 10 pairs of FD that I fitted, i would say about 5 pairs when patient first put on their glasses, they would say the dist is not that clear.

Other feedback I got from my patients is that the peripheral vision is also not that fantastic. I switch one patient from sola XL to hoya FD and he complains that his distance peripheral vision is restricted, slight tilt of the head and images become out of focus.

 Is FD overhyped?
 My sales rep has been telling me that I am the one who has got problems with this lens. :Confused:

----------


## alberto_correia

I also have prescribed and dispensed a few of Id lifestyle. But without any problems.

Can you tell me what were the prescriptions that this client was using and is using now?

----------


## Multicoat

Hi Win C,

5 out of 10 is 50% of your patients having issues with FD.  That is a very high percentage.  I find it that when i have problems with patients adapting to new lens designs, first thing i do is check the measurements on the patients previous pair of frames.  this will allow you to know what your patient has previously acustomed to.

In most cases labs have very high quality control procedures and would not allow 5 out of 10 over or under corrected lens pass QC.

panto tilt and "bow" of the frame are very important factors to take into account when a patient is complaining about blurred vision in the distance.

_"And when I ask the patient to tilt his head down until he thinks the distance vision is clear, it's about 3 mm (sometimes more) above the fitting cross."_

_this tells me that the prescription is correct on the lens(3mm above the fitting cross would be the distance prescription checking zone meaning full distance rx would be measured on the vert here).  When your patient tilts his head down he/she is essentially creating a tilt on the lense and his/her eyeball rotating upwards.  This is a simulation of panto tilt._

_I have had great feed back regarding the FD.  Patients love this new pal design.  I havent had any problems with it at all!_

_tell me what you think?_

_cheers_

----------


## Win C

I remember I had one pair in which the patient had to see 5mm above the fitting cross in order to see clearly. I sent the job back for remake and when it comes back, the patient can see clearly without having to tilt his head down. so....:hammer:

this same patient was wearing shamir Genesis and he told me that the FD is not as good as the Genesis in terms of peripheral vision. Bear in mind the prescription is the same in both the FD and the genesis. 

i also had few of my patients telling me peripheral vision is not fantastic  :Confused: 

the good thing about the FD from the feedback of my patients is that the reading and intermediate is good.

----------


## tktien

> i also had few of my patients telling me peripheral vision is not fantastic 
> 
> the good thing about the FD from the feedback of my patients is that the reading and intermediate is good.


Let's back to basic, peripheral vision virtually blur, reading and "intermediate" good, sounds like Soft design then.

Could you let us know the RX as well from that couple of pairs that been complaint distance vision restrict or something. thanks

----------


## alberto_correia

Genesis as a fixed and long corridor. But FD as two diferent corridor lenght. Could it be that you have fitted the short one on FD?

Cause if so, Your patient will be comparing two distincte designs and adaptation time is required.

Did the company replied you about the return FD? Did they verify the FD?

----------


## Win C

> Let's back to basic, peripheral vision virtually blur, reading and "intermediate" good, sounds like Soft design then.
> 
> Could you let us know the RX as well from that couple of pairs that been complaint distance vision restrict or something. thanks


I got those complaints from RX that range from plano to myope of -6.00. 

The most recent complain is from a myope of about -6 in one eye and -5 in the other.

----------


## Win C

> Genesis as a fixed and long corridor. But FD as two diferent corridor lenght. Could it be that you have fitted the short one on FD?
> 
> Cause if so, Your patient will be comparing two distincte designs and adaptation time is required.
> 
> Did the company replied you about the return FD? Did they verify the FD?


Funny thing is, the hoya rep told me that patients will benefit more from the short corridor design than the long one. I think i got more complaints for the short design than the long one. 

THey did not tell me what is wrong with the returned FD. So I am not sure what's wrong too.

----------


## Robert Martellaro

> Recently fitted a pair of Hoya FD1.6 short corridor design. When patient put on his new prescription, he complained that the distance vision is not clear when looking straight ahead. no problem with near vision. he mentioned that distance vision is clearer if he tilts his head down.


That's due to the progressive design i.e., soft, short, and wider than average intermediate. The Summit CD has all of these qualities, resulting in a lens that might be ideal for someone who has an Add over +1.75, performs extended periods of close tasks, desk work, and/or uses a monitor but will not accept separate task specific/computer glasses. The trade off is the poor/narrow distance perpheral vision, and (depending on pupil diameter, Add power, and patient sensitivity/history) soft on-axis distance acuity, the latter improving significantly after ten to twenty days of neural adaptation.   




> So far I would say I am not quite happy with FD as I get s few similar problems too with this lens in the past.


The FD 11mm corridor  (iD Lifestyle CD) appears to share the same basic progressive design as the Summit CD. IMO, the optical enhancements available with Hoya's (and others) free-form process will usually be masked by the poor off-axis optics of the short corridor PAL.

----------


## iiiiisoptom

We have dispensed quite a few Hoyalux FDs , although mostly in the longer corridor design, and we have had very good success with them.(For a while the FD tended to be our lens of first choice, but we now tend to use the Nikon Seewide series).The few "failures" were however, with the short corridor when fitted into a shallow frame, but it was mostly reading which was problematic, rather than distance vision, or peripheral blur.

I've been wearing the a 1.6 Hoyalux iD with SFT, for the past two years, and I think it is fantastic.If there's a better lens available,it would have to be something special. I'm low plus with a +0.75Add, and its almost like wearing  single vision lenses. Apart from the potential for variable near inset with the iD, does anyone know what the differences, if any there are between the iD and FD designs? No one at Hoya has been able to adequately explain it to me. I need to up my Add soon, and I don't want to put myself into an inferior product. There is a substantial difference in the price between the  two lens types. We've had NO failures with the iD, but because of price, we haven't been able to put that many people into it.

----------


## Happylady

> I've been wearing the  1.6 Hoyalux iD with SFT, for the past two years, and I think it is fantastic. If there's a better lens available, it would have to be something special. I'm low plus with a +0.75 add, and its almost like wearing  single vision lenses.


I would think any lens with a +0.75 add would be almost like a single vision lens. :)

----------


## Win C

> I would think any lens with a +0.75 add would be almost like a single vision lens. :)


Haha...I agree with you, especially with such low add.

I have continued to fit the FD for the sole reason that it's "quite cheap" here in singapore. My rep has been telling me that his feedback from other opticians is that FD is a very good lens with very few complains. On the contrary, I have complain like 50% to 70% of the time with FD from my customers.

The most recent one is a patient who used to wear Sola XL transitions and then I switched him over to FD suntech. He complained that distance peripheral vision is "restricted" and not as "natural" as compared to his XL. Prescription is the same in both.

Other complaints I get is the distance is not very clear and they have to lower their head a bit in order to see clearly. I got this problem quite frequently when I fit the FD. However, after a remake, the problem went away (at least for 80% of the time). I guess this is as good as telling me that there is really some problem with the lens when customers complain.

I almost never get any complain for near.

----------


## Win C

> Haha...I agree with you, especially with such low add.
> 
> I have continued to fit the FD for the sole reason that it's "quite cheap" here in singapore. My rep has been telling me that his feedback from other opticians is that FD is a very good lens with very few complains. On the contrary, I have complain like 50% to 70% of the time with FD from my customers.
> 
> The most recent one is a patient who used to wear Sola XL transitions and then I switched him over to FD suntech. He complained that distance peripheral vision is "restricted" and not as "natural" as compared to his XL. Prescription is the same in both.
> 
> .


A little bit of update regarding this patient.

Hoya lab remade 1 pair but same problem still exist. THe lab was trying to find out what the problem is but I think they gave up. 

In the end, they decided to refit this patient into a Hoya Summit Pro 1.5 Transitions.  When he came to collect his glasses, he mentioned that it's much better than previous pair (hoya FD/ id lifestyle) in terms of peripheral vision. 

My hoya rep likes to put the blame on the customers, always telling me that there must be some problem with the customers when they can't adapt. This customer is fine after changing lens design. THe funny thing is , I am getting more non adapts/complaints with Hoya FD than summit pro/ GP/ GP wide and Hoya FD is supposed to be a better/ more advance design than summit pro. 

I have since given up on Hoya FD. I am now fitting Seiko back surface progressives (in replacement of hoya FD) with a lot more success.

----------


## iiiiisoptom

> I would think any lens with a +0.75 add would be almost like a single vision lens. :)


I'm now wearing a +1.00 Add in the Hoyalux iD, and it's still virtually like a single vision lens :)

----------


## eye-spec

> Funny thing is, the hoya rep told me that patients will benefit more from the short corridor design than the long one. I think i got more complaints for the short design than the long one. 
> 
> THey did not tell me what is wrong with the returned FD. So I am not sure what's wrong too.



same probs here normally fit physio, with id hoya rep said fit the short corridor always and fit it 2-3mm below pupil centre.

most of our pxs wanted to lower there head even though panto tilt was good and fit excellent. was tild by rep the add comes in very quick and to fit low.personally not confident with the lens anymore, gone back yo physios

----------


## Win C

I think I have asked this before but not sure where. 

I found that for most hoya progressive lens, power prescribed is not attained at the fitting cross but 1 or 2 mm above it (the standard position where u are supposed to measure the dist power. 

I have stopped prescribing Hoya FD precisely because of this problem. A lot of my patients seems to find their dist a bit blurry (about -0.25 less than prescribed)

So I would like to know for most progressive, are power prescribed supposed to be at fitting cross and not some dist above the fitting cross?

----------


## Happylady

> I'm now wearing a +1.00 Add in the Hoyalux iD, and it's still virtually like a single vision lens :)


Try it in a +2.00 or stronger add and come back and talk to us.

----------

