# Professional and Educational Organizations > Professional and Educational Organizations Discussion Forum >  Formal Education

## Joann Raytar

_Quoted from the NFOS Website at  http://nfos.org/ :_*



			
				At the grass roots level, there is a growing awareness that education, certification, cooperation, and licensure are the critical components to build the Opticianry profession. Our vision is that Opticianry will serve the public as the recognized profession delivering post-refractive eyecare that provides optimum visual performance and eye safety in the new millenium.
			
		

*Looking back at past OptiBoard threads there seems to be a general agreement that Opticianry needs some form of National standard.  Would formal education be a first step?  How do you feel about formal education?  Do you think it should be mandatory?

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## MVEYES

How can we deal with the issues before us in our profession whithout formal education as a mandatory requirement? When you discuss the patients needs in the eyewear or contact lens they will select, shouldn't you be educated through a formal education institution  to have any validity to your explanation? Otherwise why shouldn't that patient take their neighbors advise over yours? 
Analogy: Over the years I've put ice on my ankle if I twisted it and it would swell. The ice helped releive the pain. Do I consider myself able to advise others? NO!!! I have not gone to medical school to understand the procedures for properly caring for illnesses that occur. 

Our PROFESSION is not just running a cash register or pulling patient information! We have a lot of technical information and activities that we must be proficient in completing. Understanding optics (physics and math), explanation of corrective lenses to the patient (biology and psychology) and creating an atmosphere for patient returns (business) are all good reasons for formal education. Those who oppose us are not looking out for the patients best interest. They see only the cheap labor force being removed and their financial bottom line being diminished. What hippocrits!



 :Eek:  Jerry

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## Joann Raytar

Well, this post has recieved 84 views so far and I figure about six of them are mine.  13 votes out of 84; how are we doing on the numbers pro-formal ed anyone.  (Translated: I am not the world's greatest statistician.)

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## MVEYES

I didn't notice any against formal education.



 :Cool:  Jerry

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## Joann Raytar

That's a good sign.  If I asked this question a year or two ago I am sure the results would have been alot different.

I am surprised by the results so far.  I live in a state with the benefit of an accredited Ophthalmic Design and Dispensing Program at *Middlesex College*.  I know not everyone has Opticianry Programs in their states.  Either we need to work at getting accredited programs in more local colleges or we need to take a serious look at the distance learning programs available.

Does anyone have enrollment information for either local colleges or for those taking part in distance degrees?  Is enrollment up over previous years?

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## JRS

Well Jo, 13 votes out of 84 views runs about 15+% in active participation. However, if you minus out the number of repetitive views (you for sure and me at least 3 times), we arrive at a "voter turnout" of about 20%. Pretty much mimics political voter turnout. Many look, few get involved.

Laurie, Florida Laurie, is a great source for your distance learning questions.

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## MVEYES

Wouldn't this be a great mission for OAA , NAO and CLSA to collaborate and create an education network via distance learning " e-college" or at established institutions? I'll bet that there would be great support from the state organizations on this one.



 :Cool:  Jerry

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## Joann Raytar

Jerry,

I believe that is what the NFOS, National Federation of Opticianry Schools, is trying to do.  I think the OAA and NAO supports their efforts.  I am not sure about how it is all pulling together or what they are doing to share the concept of formal ed.

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## MVEYES

What can the individual state organizations do to help NFOS in this quest?






 :Cool:  Jerry

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## Laurie

Thanks for asking Jo,

Our enrollment here in Florida has tripled because of distance learning.  Around the country, the few schools involved with distance ed (Durham Technical College, Jay Sargeant Reynolds College and DeKalb Technical Institute) all report higher numbers.

We are new at distance learning, so for now, we are only focusing on Florida, not nationally.

However, two brand new opticianry programs are opening up (one in Vermont, one in Hawaii) because of the distance learning option.  Bricks and mortor is becoming very costly.  I envision alot of satelite programs with an all purpose lab using less space and more computers becoming a trend.  

How can state societies help?

Help us (NFOS) identify community colleges or universities that also offer AA and AS degrees in your area.

Once we have two contact people, an optical person who would become the full time instructor/preceptor (hired by the college) and the Division Dean of Health Sciences, we will take it from there!

Eddie DeGennaro is the dean of health sciences at J. Sargeant Reynold's, and he will communicate mostly with the college administrators.  I'll act as a friend/mentor to the new college.  The big thing the instructor needs to know:  the materials for the AS degree is not a turn-key operation.  The person will put in countless hours making it work the first couple of years.

We are offerring our entire degree program to all NFOS members...there is no charge for this.  Any regionally accredited college can join.  Our mission is to help facilitate the opening of new opticianry programs around the country .  We believe that this will do alot to help elevate our profession.

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## MVEYES

If you go to our website: OAO.ORG  there is a link to the schools in Ohio. Scott Caroll is the person to contact. We would love to have distance learning a reality in our state.


:D Jerry

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## MVEYES

Is ABO/NCLE behind formal education?




:bbg: Jerry

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## Alan W

The ABO/NCLE is behind . . . period!

Never have I ever seen an allied health care profession continue to serve the public with no mandatory education requirement.
Not even self impossed.
Gotta stop.
They're laughing at us, guys.
We gotta get with the program. San Jacinto College was looking for an instructor. AA Degree minimum requirement. I qualify, but sort of busy on another project.
The point is . . .
The point is . . .
Not even a 2 year degree anywhere in the Houston Area.
Holy Moly . . . and we want doctors to respect and support us.

GIVE    ME   A   BREAK!

There are those amongst us who don't have the degree, but sure to heck qualify. We need to work on work experience qualifications, specialty certification and stuff. So, "the doctors" won't have more respect for an 18 year old high school kid who takes COT courses on a 6 month program than a few years as an optician. 

Where's my Pepcid!

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## MVEYES

No one said that the value of experience was not equivalent to the education from a two year course of study. I have 27 years experience as an Optician. My educational degrees is not in Opticianry. I think our profession needs to start focusing on education as an entry requirement for our profession. Without it we have no stand with the legislatures in our respective states and we can be EASILY replaced according to the retail merchants with individuals willing to apprentice. Education does not diminish experience. Don't look at it as a threat.




 :Confused:  Jerry

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## Alan W

I guess I wrote my statement incorrectly. I am not threatened. I encourage the consideration of work experience towards a degree. Too many people deserve the degree and have accumulated the knowledge base that could easily qualify them for much if not all of a degree. But, I am not aware of any school conferring a degree that allows an individual to "challenge the exam."

I've got 35 years into this, an  AA and BS.
I have an enormous amount of respect for several of the people on this board and know that some do not have a degree, yet qualify for it.

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## MVEYES

You are right. As a matter of fact one of my employees (associate) has no degrees and has 24 years experience in my office and I consider her far and above more knowledgeable and respected then many of the degreed employees I have had in my office. I take nothing away from the individuals in our field who have contributed to the excellence of our profession. I only speak of the need for a standard in our profession. How does it make you feel to have an Optometrist or Ophthalmologist hire a person who has been a receptionist and refer to them as an optician? That action belittles your hard earned talents and doesn't give you the credibitlity you deserve with the general public. That was my point in this thread. Not to belittle the self educated leaders and professionals of our field.

:shiner: Jerry:)

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## Alan W

> I only speak of the need for a standard in our profession.


That statement is extremely powerful. And, with it comes the need to determine who in the profession of opticianry should set the standards, design some form of enforcement, be identified truly as an optician and not as an ancillary or peripheral worker. And, it should definitely not be someone who will sacrifice opticians to satisfy anyone else.  No one will step up to the plate and say who should be an apprentice, who should be licensed by education, etc. It has been left to optometry to control legislation and it will remain that way as long as we continue to let the fox guard the chicken house. It is equally as important for all of us to face the reality that our only ally is the patient or customer who ultimately has the power of the purse and the power of public opinion. It is the public who, when they learn of the politics between opticianry and optometry who will say....that's enough. Doctor, you do your thing and, optician, you do your thing. But, we can't allow optometry or even the new breed of technicians (COT, etc who will someday have a sronger lobby than us) to be known (and already are) better than opticians.
I am referring to the incredible lack of public relations we do and how we allow "members" of our own craft to argue us out of public relations as was done in an attempt a few months ago.
We also need to stop saying education should be acquired and start saying education is a must, because if you don't show the degree or the certification, you are NOT an optician. And, you should go back to selling garden tools at Walmart. There should be only one doorway to opticianry and it should NOT be the doorway from one department of a discount store to another to the optical. It should be the doorway from the school to the doorway of the employer.

Noone should ever be allowed to adjust a pair of glasses without something hanging on the wall besides the employers ink jet wallpaper.

Education is the right of passage and public relations is the right to announce it. We are so passive we are drowning in our own apathy. That's it. I'm done. Back to work. Have a nice day.

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## MVEYES

I hope you aren't done! This issue should not be done until we all speak and tell our State Associations and National Associations that we want them to make as part of their goals the marketing ideas you have expressed. We need more then what a lobbyist can do for us we need public  EXPOSURE! We are separate from COT's who are assistants to the Docs. We are the "pharmacist" of the optical world. That is an important concept that the public needs to understand. 

Alan you and I are on the same wavelength. Now it is time to make sure that others in our profession agree and as a group do something about it!


:bbg: Jerry

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## Alan W

It's good to know that those thoughts are shared. 
An attempt was made many months ago to organiza a communications based group, but there was so much division of thought and arguments over what needed to be done  thatnit became a still birth.

I will support any attmpt you make to do anything in that direction. But, no longer have the time to attempt any form of leadership. I encourage you to step up to the plate and carry the ball. There are many who will do the same, I'm confident.

I'll be happy to share notes through email at:

specsupport@ev1.net

Haven't figured out how to make that a link. Sorry.

Alan

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## Judy Canty

Unfortunately, it's difficult to "tell" your state and national associations what you want done if you're not a member, and most Opticians out there are NOT members of anything other than the human race.  

Richard, Alan and Jerry, I'm with you guys on this, but from my perspective as an active OAV and OAA member, these discussions are proving fruitless and frustrating.  

We could be a force to be reckoned with, but remain content to have other professions and corporate entities define us to the public.  We need a healthy dose of self-respect and that is only going to happen when we respect ourselves enough see post-secondary formal education as a necessity as opposed to a nicety.
Waiting for ABO-NCLE to change it's minimum requirements is pointless.  No one is going to hurt that cash cow.  

Why not utilize the research available from NFOS, survey your own areas and then use the information to approach the local community college and start a program?  It doesn't have to begin as an AS, we started our program in Northern Virginia with a 26 credit hour certificate program.  After 4 years, we'll have our AS in Technical Studies degree beginning with the Fall 2002 semester.  

It can be done.  But it takes perseverence and dedication.

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## Laurie

The only way to make change is to get involved with your state organization and work through the system that is already in place.

Whining from the outside does nothing but bore people.

: )

Laurie

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## Alan W

> . . .these discussions are proving fruitless and frustrating.


You can sure hurt a guy. You are right. Fruitless. Right. Not gonna work. Let's go have a drink.

Set up a school?

The Community College near me just started a school. 99% optometric studies. Technical? Hah, hah, hah.

I studied in Germany at 2 schools. What I have forgotten about technique a lot of people will never learn. Not boasting. Dont understand what it will take to create an optical school that isn't a modified COT program. I'm changing my name to Carl Zeiss. But, then, someone there will say . . . but, do you have a degree?  Studied at Metzler. Good enough? No.....   response was "what's that?"

A friend studied at Otto Krause in Argentina. Incredible school. Impeccable credentials. Local yocals said: "Argentina? It happened in Rio?"
Mark Shupnick created a school in New York that had more respect than any other school around. Not so much anymore.

Something is wrong here. 
If we can't respect the great ones, maybe we don't deserve to go on or have little to go on with.
Our foundation is very weak.
The public relations I speak of applies internally also. Too many of us believe the Walmart Academy of Vision is the end all. Why go to school when Wally World certifies you?
We need to redefine, reengineer, and reposition.

Right Now!

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## Judy Canty

Alan,
Who's on the advisory board at the college?  We had Optometrists on ours, so we called it Vision Care Services, but the reality is that the OD's wouldn't support it either.  Too many of them were not willing to pay for well trained Optometric Techs either, so that part of the program died a quiet death.  We're now all Opticianry students.  Perhaps you can take a place on your advisory board and start to influence the curriculum and marketing of the program.

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## Alan W

It's all optometric . . ,.
Right down to the little punctum plug!

Opticians?

They're still laughing.

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## Alan W

I didn't respectfully respond to your posting.
I would consider sitting on the advisory board. But, knowing who is on it currently tells me that, as there are no opticians on it currently, my presence would be about as welcommed as Bin Ladin in the Bronx!
Yes, I believe a change is possible . . .
But, if Lenscrafters can say: "Are you lucky enough to need glasses?"
We can say: "Opticians are your glasses best friend."

But, you know what really gripes me?

The ones who have the most to gain by promoting opticianry as a service point, seem to exploit opticianry as a profession.

Lenscrafters, EyeMasters, WalMart, Cole, so on and so forth. They could say it, and don't . Because, they won't hire the good ones. Or, should I say, fire the good ones when they get over $12.00/hour. One foot on a rock....the other on a bannana peel or something.

Wait a minute......maybe that's all we're worth and we're a legend in our own minds. Maybe that's the real truth. WHAT DO YOU THINK?  Maybe WE should transfer to the garden center and show them how its really done. Yeh, that's the ticket!  I mean we get treated like "it", maybe we should sell "it"!

We need to sell optical cookies and do optical car washes and pay our own way. (I hope you understand what I'm really saying here).

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## Joann Raytar

Why do some of you folks feel these discussions are "fruitless and frustrating?"  I understand that OptiBoard is a small sampling of Opticians but the results are showing that more members are pro formal education now then they were a couple of years ago.  I think these types of discussions had a ton to do with that.  The only way to bring a message home is by being persistant in delivering it.

Judy,

I agree with you.  We do have to do more than *just* talk but educating and informing others about education is one way to get things rolling.  These discussions create interest and even if one person looks into their local college programs or a distance learning degree then these posts have accomplished their goals.

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## MVEYES

You are so right! Discussion brings the issues to the forefront which leads to a creation of a blueprint for action.


:D  :Cool:  Jerry

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## Ruthie

I was told to register by a certain individual about a year ago. I never did although I wanted to. I somehow had the impression it cost money. My comments are in (    )
[QUOTE]_Originally posted by Alan W_ 
*But, you know what really gripes me?

(Please see below for what gripes me.)

Lenscrafters, EyeMasters, WalMart, Cole, so on and so forth. They could say it, and don't . Because, they won't hire the good ones. Or, should I say, fire the good ones when they get over $12.00/hour. One foot on a rock....the other on a bannana peel or something.


Maybe WE should transfer to the garden center and show them how its really done. Yeh, that's the ticket!  I mean we get treated like "it", maybe we should sell "it"!

(Okay, bad joke above SO I TOOK IT OUT,  but this upsets me. You know what, I started life as somebody wanting to make something better of themselves. I've watched 4 threads going on where you do a superior dance and constantly rag on companies because they might have a garden department. So I guess I should be ashamed because I've tried to be a good optician in a department store and better face I can never measure up. Is that the point? Well maybe those are the people who gave me the chance to get a start in this business. And from what I know of you it's where you've been for years. Maybe that's okay, maybe if everyone wants to talk about perfecting opticians and the image to the public, the idea should be to embrace and mentor and assist ALL trying to do this job.)

We need to sell optical cookies and do optical car washes and pay our own way. 

(Good, you the first to anti up the money to change things? You make some good points in all for sections your commenting in but you could sure do it without thinking you know every thing and deciding which catagories are worth nothing! (I hope you understand what I'm really saying here).* [/QUOTE

But at least you got me to register!

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## Alan W

> (That's the real reason you were fired from all 4 of these companies? Geez, the rumors were so much more interesting! )


You seem to have a problem.  I would ask the moderator to temper these comments. They border on some serious stuff.

It would be nice for an employer to contribute, sponsor, help promote local and state societies. Smaller, more professionally dedicated companies do all the time all over the country. If some of these biggies do so, great. It would also be nice if people who excel by the standards of the professional community be allowed to continue growing with an employer, and learn how to increase their productivity to maintain longevity.  But, all too many seem to find the usefullness of emloyees diminsh as they approach the limits of payroll budgets. Then, its only a matter of time before some element of discontent, on either parties part, leads to a shortening of the relationship.  There is also a "hit order" that is not uncommon in almost all specialty and general retail, optical or other,  when some people outlast the old management and don't fit the next generation.  

Several months ago I pushed for specialty certification which might give a good performer /  accomplished optician a "leg up" in recognition and perhaps a better shot at advancement. It was so difficult to sell the idea that I stopped discussing it. That's one   example of what some of us might mean by fruitless and frustrating, and that's over internal development of opticianry and setting the standards,  as MV Eyes stated; not even in the 3 O community.

I withdraw the bad humor. Not that it is not said behind closed doors. But, because it attracts needless and ethically compromised reaction.  (But, then, who am I!) To those folks who work in those places, I encourage you to participate in the educational opportunities offered by BOTH colleagues outside your workplace AND by employers who have  a wider window of opportunity to grow TECHNICALLY. There are Optiboard members who's workplace is a culture of technical opportunities that don't have as limited a repertoire of technical dialog as many of the mass merchandisers or mass specialty merchandisers. To give you a better idea of what I mean.....
you might take some of the postings from the Ophthalmic Optics Forum and ask management and other coworkers at some of the mass merchandisers the same questions. See what you get for an answer. Be your own evaluator, rather than sling mud or fib.

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## MVEYES

True, the status quo of opticians out there just doing a job because the "WalMart's" hired them. I want to distinguish what a true optician is defined as in terms of experience, National certification, licensure and formal education. Those hired and permitted in their states to hand someone a pair of glasses and not know the first thing about the optical value in a good adjustment  or any of the principles of optics relating to eyewear are not in my opinion an Optician. They exist as low payed budgetary employees that do more selling of the extras that give them the small bonuses then really understanding the needs of the patient they are dealing with.

I reflect on my decision to become an Optician 28 years ago. I am glad I chose my path. The field is rewarding, creative and you can actually use your brain in the problem solving challenges day to day. You are a consultant with expertise that the other O's and general public should respect. The ideas here are to take us from a background that has no definition to one that has definition. Formal education will achieve part of that. Licensure in all 50 states will achieve part of that. Those of us with these convictions have to push for these changes no matter how long it takes.


 :Cool:  Jerry

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## Joann Raytar

> _Originally posted by Alan W_ 
> * 
> 
> You seem to have a problem.  I would ask the moderator to temper these comments. They border on some serious stuff.*


You know I love ya Alan and I would, but you brought the chains into this discussion and isolated them from the topic yourself so you gotta take your lumps.  Besides, I believe that we need to work towards the security of all Opticians; lab, independent and chain.  There are some good people in all of those why should we leave some behind when we talk about raising the bar?  Or am I mis-reading your post?

PS - I know one of those chains offers loans to employees who wish to persue formal education in their field as long as it is done through accredited colleges.

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## Alan W

False statements about ones work experience or implications of same is called slander, defamation of character. Statements made about companies is not.

I also referred to exceptions and recognize that Cole and Lenscrafters have "job enrichment" opportunities. I also note that WalMart in some way recognizes. 

Is it practiced to the extent that it results in people exelling?
If so, fine.
Where the rubber meets the road, then is whereit dosnt happen.
It doesnt happen where supervisors have the mandate of budgetary control over associate development.

In this forum the positions we held have no relevence. However, I know the names of people who not only have excercised hit orders, but have also denied them to worthy people we can call rooky opticians. That culture exists and prevents many people who could be quality opticians from ever getting there or at least being exposed to the opportunity. 

I AM NOT REFERRING TO THE PEOPLE WITH THE PD STICKS!

But, a person with a PD stick who believes that his employer is the only game in town and that the training received there is the upper limit, and then practices that way, is uninformed and as a result may be a potential threat to the profession, although not knowingly.

We dont do enough to make those people aware. 

Yes, I opened myself up.  
I shed some "blood ". 
The person with the machety (sp!) goes free?
That's what we are all about?
OK, false statements permitted.
We dont share the same value system.
Later for that!

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## Joann Raytar

> But, a person with a PD stick who believes that his employer is the only game in town and that the training received there is the upper limit, and then practices that way, is uninformed and as a result may be a potential threat to the profession, although not knowingly.


You are right on here.  Many years ago, I was one of those company people.  As friends left for greener pastures, I was in for an eye-opener.  To this day I make sure to keep in touch with friends and aquiantances in all aspects of the business.  You have to learn about and understand what happens on the other side of the fence.

Don't get too upset with me.  I agree with you on what you have said but for different reasons.  We all own mentoring but we aren't all doing it, chain and independent alike.  If mentor/apprentice programs aren't creating complete opticians then we must resort to other programs like formal education to make sure there are as few gaps in qualification levels as possible.

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## Pete Hanlin

> False statements about ones work experience or implications of same is called slander, defamation of character. Statements made about companies are not.


You are technically correct Alan.  _Slander_ is the unjust maligning of a person.  _Libel_ is the unjust maligning of a plantiff (or in this case, company).  

In either case, I fail to see anything that qualifies as _slander_ in Ruthie's post.  From what I read, you and she apparently have differing opinions over the quality of the work environment and employment practices of certain firms.  You have made it quite clear both here and in other forums that you harbor a certain amount of disdain for WalMart and other chains.  Whether this disdain is justified is up to the judgment of the reader.  Equally subjective is Ruthie's logic in her defense of her workplace.

My view?  (No, no one asked for it, but I enjoy giving it, so I will.)  Personally, I know a lot of fine people who work for WalMart- some like their work environment, some don't.  In the end, patients decide with their feet, and WalMart continues to do pretty good business locally, so I guess that says something, doesn't it?

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## MVEYES

You know, an optician can be the best at his or her job no matter what roof they practice under. What they do to fulfill their professional obligation will be reflected by the public's response to the service they receive.  I feel there are a lot of good opticians out there who find opportunities to expand their careers under a corporate umbrella. Any of us who practices our profession needs to remember the ethics and responsibilities we have to our patients. I know that an optician that has knowledge of these criteria performs their duty skillfully and will have patients coming back and asking for them by name. It doesn't matter if it is at WalMart or at Exclusive Optical. The Public demands quality. That is why price is not always the answer to success. Quality in knowledge is what I strive for and I see overwhelmingly I am not alone.



 :Cool:  Jerry

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## Ruthie

> _Originally posted by Alan W_ 
> * 
> 
> You seem to have a problem.  I would ask the moderator to temper these comments. They border on some serious stuff.
> 
>  Be your own evaluator, rather than sling mud or fib.*


No I don't have a problem. I can temper my own comments, so I have, without anyone asking me to. I regret that I sunk to a level as low as some others. But I am curious, if you really think I slandered you why you didn't contact me directly to tell me so and say WHAT you think was slander? Besides, i said it was a joke. I have nothing to be concerned about other than maybe behaving like what I complained about in you.

At any rate, it had the desired effect, although still (in my opinion) highly biased, at least your following comments were not as diragatory to us who don't have the opportunity to achieve the lofty German training you CLAIM to have. And maybe we want just as bad to take good care of our customers and want opportunities to learn too. 

So maybe you should be your own evaluator and not sling mud. Ask yourself if it's reasonable to expect that you are unbiased in your accessment of chains and those who work in them. And when you say I'm a fibber, where do you say how many chains you've worked for. Because it looks to me like you pretend you didn't.

But I am sorry I upset you, but, slander, naw, get an attorney, he won't agree. You upset me too.

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## Steve Machol

Before this escalates any further I'm going to ask everyone to get back on topic - namely *Formal Education*.  Please take all future personal discussions to email or private messages.  Thanks! :)

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## hcjilson

Speaking as an Optician trained through a formal apprenticeship  and holding a degree at the same time BBA (management)........my opinion follows.

Given the history of our profession, and the advancement of Optometry through formal education, I would state that our training through formal education is a worthy goal but somewhat unrealistic.In licensed states, statutes governing the licensing of Opticians usually provide for credentialling through a two year "formal"  education program (associates degree) OR an apprenticeship program of not less than 3 years or 6000 hours.Rhode Island is a noteable exeption, eliminating apprenticeship a couple of years ago.

The problem becomes one of legislating out something which was once permissable in your own state,and will continue to be permissable in other compareable states.You have to be VERY crafty to get that by a legislature.I would LOVE to know how Rhody pulled it off without a court challenge!In any event it takes a lot more to move a state legislature than noise.

Given that most of us have come up through apprenticeship, who are we to say that education is the only way? On the contrary, we are in a better position to judge where the best opticians come from....and I daresay academia will come in second.I have heard a lot about recognition in this and other similar threads, as if formal education is the basis for this recognition or "respect" as some say.

If you know what you are doing, and are the best you can be....and are willing to continue to learn and improve yourself....you will have all the recognition you need, as well as the respect of your peers and other practitioners of the 3 O's.The proof is in the pudding, not the recipe.

best to all hj

PS I defy anyone to prove to me that the level of optical service provided by a qualified optician is any less *because*  that optician is employed by a national chain operation.Its time to BURY that myth along with the bitterness and rancor borne of insecurity.

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## Joann Raytar

Harry,

If other skilled and somewhat unskilled trades can do it (hairdressers, nail beauticians, paralegals, certain levels of electricians etc.) why can't we?

I understand that the main obstacle in getting something official passed in all of the states is first getting all of the state legislatures to agree that we are a necessary profession.  This is the main argument most states use to try and deregulate opticianry.  There are so few consumer complaints that we must not be necessary.  They don't think that perhaps because enough of us are our doing our jobs well is the reason that there are so few complaints and if you deregulate you can just flush those low numbers down the tubes.

Isn't there something our Associations and ourselves can do to set our own bar and forget about state legislatures?  Or is that where those lawsuits you speak of come into play?

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## hcjilson

Before I start, I want to clear up last nights post if it is cloudy to anyone.I favor a formalized degree program for Opticians.I would also favor an additional year spent as a practicum in order to obtain that degree.Its just that it is not realistic to eliminate apprenticeship programs for reasons stated above.

There is something that can be done, and it can be done quickly. My thought would be to create the differentiation between the words "Registered" and "Certified".Certification being ONLY obtainable by degree.Right now theres no differentiation between the two, and the ABO will "Certify" anyone who passes their examination.I would love to see them change that to a "registration" and proceed with a "Board Certified" program, similar to that of the other professions.We are trying to change things from the bottom.When will we collectively realize *That cannot be done!* The body will follow where the head leads it!Hashing it out here accomplishes nothing other than a continuing frustration.
off to my second cuppa- hj

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## MVEYES

I disagree:



> Hashing it out here accomplishes nothing other than a continuing frustration.


This forum brings together individuals interested in their optical profession but frustrated with 'good ole boys politics'. We can make a difference if we create a plan. "Build it and they will come".


 :Cool:  Jerry

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## hcjilson

Hello MV!

The point I was trying to make is that nothing can be done from here.While Optiboard has become an important forum for us, the fact remains that at a membership of 1400 or so we are still very small in terms of numbers, and it is my guess that in those numbers there are yet a smaller amount that even *BELONG*   to the organizations which effect change, and of  *that*  smaller number, there is an even *smaller* of our members who are in the leadership positions that can get the ball rolling.

Those who ARE in the leadership positions should be making a concerted effort to involve the officers in these associations in Optiboard, and bring about some effective dialog.Until that happens,you can disagree till the cows come home, but NOTHING will happen from here.

MV, that was a *Blueprint* ....not a put down.Congratulations again on being featured member this month, and your dialog is ALWAYS welcome.
hj

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## MVEYES

I agree that small numbers do not make sweeping changes but small numbers in our state got a licensing law passed. They were passionate and held on to their convictions through out the political mudslinging. I for one plan on encouraging a participation in this Optical forum at our next convention and State Association board meeting.
Dialogue creates ideas and apathy lets ideas die. I hope to keep on with the dialogue and meet with my friends here and let my association know that we are not isolated. Shouldn't that be the goal of our National leaders to bring all of us together. If it is a failure in that arena, I hope our discussions will bring the ideas to the table so that we in unity can act on them.

PS Thanks for the honor. I'm not sure sometimes if I'm obsessed or just 'windy'

:D :bbg: :D Jerry

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## optigoddess

Harry, 

I like the concept of "registered" and "certified"!  Great point!  

Karen

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## Joann Raytar

> _Originally posted by hcjilson_ 
> *Those who ARE in the leadership positions should be making a concerted effort to involve the officers in these associations in Optiboard, and bring about some effective dialog.*


Harry,

I agree with you 100% on this point.  We are the Opticians that organizations are supposed to represent.  Not only would their involvement in OptiBoard give everyone a great way to touch base it would also act as a mini membership drive because of the exposure they would get.

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## MVEYES

Good points! The more members we bring in here the more people won't feel on the outside their Associations. We also have a unique advantage to talk internationally and across professional boundaries.


 :D Jerry

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## eyejoe

What Opticianry really needs is 50 state MANDATORY education, NOT necessarily 50 state licensure.  If we had that we might be looked at differently.  Currently no Health Insurance Company will enter into an agreement with a TRADE ( this is the way that the federal govenment classifies Opticianry) .  What we really need is a national organization to pick up the EDUCATION ball and run with it.  TN has been threatened with deregulation and so have many other states.  If we had MANDATORY education ( whichthe public already thinks we do) we would probably be able to go for 50 state licensure.  I do not know the name of the actual study but the GENERAL PUBLIC thinks that we need a BA in order to perform our job!

Any and all comments are welcome!!  Send them to josephblack@mindspring.com.

Joe Black
President Professional Opticians of Florida

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## Laurie

and FABULOUS POF President,


The study was conducted by Tom Woods in NYC Tech, and Roger Hill from Naval Ophthalmic Support and Training (NOSTRA) and was conducted by William and Mary college statistics dept. and was funded by Essilor.  I posted the study here a while back, maybe I can dig it out and post it again.

You are correct in that the study found that the general public already assumes that we are formally educated.

: )

Laurie
(Tampa, remember??)

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## MVEYES

You posted:




> What Opticianry really needs is 50 state MANDATORY education, NOT necessarily 50 state licensure. If we had that we might be looked at differently.


We need to demand this action but also need to support the National Organization behind the movement. A strategic plan must be drawn up and agreed upon by the states and then we need to focus on one or two states at a time.

Laurie,
Have you found the study Joe was talking about. I would like to see it . This could be a great marketing tool as well as a great beginning piece to present to the state legislatures.


:cheers: Jerry

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## Judy Canty

You can download the study from the NFOS webpage, www.nfos.org. 

Go to downloads and locate "Public Attitude Towards Opticianry Education as Human Capital".

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## Laurie

You beat me to it!

I seem to remember that Steve had to make special board arrangements to accept such a large file last time.

The best bet is to download it from the NFOS site.

Thanks again,

Laurie

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## MVEYES

Thanks for the link. That is really helpful. Could be one of many tools to use in legislative efforts.

:cheers: Jerry

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## Judy Canty

I'll tell you what I've been mulling over since OAA Leadership.  Bruce Richardson of the Registered Opticians Association of Texas sent me a copy of the transcript of that infamous 20/20 segment called Seeing Green.  It had been some time since I even thought about it, but seeing the transcript got me thinking.  Why are we not capitalizing on LensCrafters own spokesperson's reasons for not correctly filling a prescription?

Dr. JIM SEMENTILLI:  "Because you have to understand that making glasses is a very intricate and complicated process."

Now, I realize that the entire piece was edited for entertainment value, however it is on the record and I think remains a powerful statement in support of education and regulation.  But then, I might be biased....:shiner:

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## MVEYES

I agree. We need surveys, news clips and all the information we can gather to conduct this campaign. I think our state association has the TV investigative news segment that went after poorly fabricated eyewear from the same Rx. Public exposure to this type of evidence should help us move forward in our efforts.


  :D :bbg: Jerry

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