# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  New PAL from CZV - Sola Elan

## KITT

As the title says. Will be launched in select European markets first to be followed by more general release.

More at http://solaelan.moonfruit.fr

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## xiaowei

> As the title says. Will be launched in select European markets first to be followed by more general release.
> 
> More at http://solaelan.moonfruit.fr


It´s always impressive with how many "new" products one can come up that are "radically different" from other products and are the result of "> 10 years of research", while all is likely only (re-) marketing hype. Given all the "innovations" over the state of art each of these new products claims, we already should have the "perfect PAL" for a long time!

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## Darryl Meister

> It´s always impressive with how many "new" products one can come up that are "radically different" from other products


There is nothing in the SOLA Elan marketing materials that describes the lens as "radically different."

Although SOLA Elan certainly represents the next-generation of SOLA lens designs, the SOLA Elan design is actually an evolution of the award-winning SOLAOne lens design platform.

There are a few significant differences though: SOLA Elan has a wider, softer distance than SOLAOne and SOLA Elan also utilizes a more extensive Design by Rx scheme, referred to as Physiologically Mapped Optics.

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## AdmiralKnight

Is this just the EU branded HDV?

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## Darryl Meister

> Is this just the EU branded HDV?


No, it is a completely different lens design.

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## BMH

So which design will Sola/Zeiss be discontinuing now that this wonderful lens is available?

Oh yeah, none. 

I'm all for advancements in lenses but how many lenses do we need. I feel that the lens companies, and I mean all of them, would come out a bit more credible and believable if they would REPLACE some lenses, not just add more and more designs. Darryl says this is an advancement on the SolaOne design so why not just update the design and still call it SolaOne and quit making the older, inferior design.

I know I'm being touchy or testy but if these NEW designs are so much better, why do the old designs stay on the market. I compare it to the car industry. Honda doesn't keep making dozens of designs based on the accord and rename them. They make the NEW accord better than before and QUIT making the old design. 

Seems like snake oil to me.

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## Darryl Meister

> So which design will Sola/Zeiss be discontinuing now that this wonderful lens is available? Oh yeah, none... if these NEW designs are so much better, why do the old designs stay on the market.


Often, sucessful older-generation progressive lens designs continue to enjoy distribution after the introduction of more advanced lens designs in order to service eye care professionals or retail chains seeking to offer "value" or "budget" progressive lenses to certain patients who are more price conscious.

Generally, as a progressive lens design matures and becomes obsolete, the cost of the lens steadily declines. Consequently, it's just basic economics, not snake oil.

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## KITT

I guess they're afraid that if they don't continue the old designs people who want these may go to another brand, and to be fair the likes of the XL and Compact (original version, not Ultra) to name but 2 are still fairly big sellers despite the fact they no longer actively market them. And so far they haven't really pushed this design at all, first heard about it around a year ago and even now very little info about on it.

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## BMH

I know its not snake oil and I realize that a lot of work and science goes into the new lens designs coming out. I just wish lens companies would take a hard stance on maybe two or three lenses at the most and scrap the rest.

 I know it will never happen.:hammer:

To me it seems to be based on the buying publics short attention span and the manufactures need to have something new and cutting edge.:idea:


As far as KITT's comment about the XL and Compact. I agree they are good lens designs. They are also rather old designs. So it still leaves me wondering does Sola feel the SolaOne is better and in-turn represents their brand better? I would think it would cost the company more in the long run to keep so many brands on the market.

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## KITT

They do have rather alot alright. From all I can think of the Elan will make 21, that are currently available, when you include all the Zeiss, Sola, AO & Optiswiss PAL's. So far I've:

gradal
gt2
brevis/brevity
experience
pal-p (CZV subsidiary-Optiswiss)
compact
pro-15
pro easy
pez
b-active
explorer (not sure if it's still available)
synchrony
vip
graduate
sola1
solamax
percepta
xl
compact ultra
std. prog.
elan

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## K Dog

There is one thing wrong with this lens. It is SOLA. As an ECP we are only selling Zeiss Lenses. 

The chains and mass retail will sell Sola, We sell Zeiss. Take a stand.

To be the best, you need to offer the best.

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## KITT

> There is one thing wrong with this lens. It is SOLA. As an ECP we are only selling Zeiss Lenses. 
> 
> The chains and mass retail will sell Sola, We sell Zeiss. Take a stand.
> 
> To be the best, you need to offer the best.


Afraid they're not planning anything new on the Zeiss front anytime soon. Only thing I've heard is that the GT2 will soon be available in a 1.60 version to finish off the range.

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## AdmiralKnight

> There is one thing wrong with this lens. It is SOLA. As an ECP we are only selling Zeiss Lenses. 
> 
> The chains and mass retail will sell Sola, We sell Zeiss. Take a stand.
> 
> To be the best, you need to offer the best.


No offense, but this post makes little sense. Sola and Zeiss are different how? Name? When it all boils down to it, they're in bed together. Maybe not the same company, but close enough. It's like saying "We don't sell Essilor, we only sell Varilux."

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## Darryl Meister

> No offense, but this post makes little sense. Sola and Zeiss are different how? Name? When it all boils down to it, they're in bed together. Maybe not the same company, but close enough.


SOLA and ZEISS are both brands of Carl Zeiss Vision, just as Toyota and Lexus (the luxury arm) are both divisions of Toyota Motors. SOLA progressive lenses are designed by a specific group of lens designers in Adelaide, Australia, whereas ZEISS progressive lenses are designed by a different group of lens designers in Aalen, Germany.

It actually makes good sense to rely primarily on ZEISS progressive lenses as an independent eye care professional. ZEISS progressive lenses have very little presence in retail chains, which allows you to differentiate yourself more easily while minimizing comparison shopping. Also, the ZEISS brand enjoys considerably greater consumer awareness than the SOLA brand.

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## AdmiralKnight

That's all well and good, but you can't say "I refuse to sell Sola lenses on principal because they're sold in chains!" then turn around and say you're taking a stand by selling lenses made by the same company (CZV). You're supporting the company one way or the other, and most consumers couldn't care either way as long as they can see.

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## Darryl Meister

I'm not suggesting that you should refuse to sell SOLA or any other brand on principle. I was speaking only of the potential economic and marketing advantages involved.

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## drk

I'll admit I have progressive design fatigue as well.

What are we to do out here in the field?  

If we have to analyze every new permutation of every one of the big four's lenses (Varilux, Hoya, Shamir, CZV) we're going to go nuts.

I like the car analogy, I really do.

I think three or four progressives per company would suffice: budget, general purpose, maybe a couple special flavors like a shorty.

Keep the brand constant.

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## BMH

> I'll admit I have progressive design fatigue as well.


I think you've coined a new phrase for the industry!!!!:idea:

Do you think I could file for disability with Social Security for that.

I think most Optical Professionals are suffering from PDF.

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

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## MarySue

> SOLA and ZEISS are both brands of Carl Zeiss Vision, just as Toyota and Lexus (the luxury arm) are both divisions of Toyota Motors. SOLA progressive lenses are designed by a specific group of lens designers in Adelaide, Australia, whereas ZEISS progressive lenses are designed by a different group of lens designers in Aalen, Germany.


I'm heading to the product launch in November in Auckland New Zealand.  I know we'll get plenty of information on features and benefits, but where can I find the technical data on the lens design itself?  

I work as a consultant training staff on product designs, do's and don'ts and their limitations if they are not qualified or registered.  What I am finding is the GT23D and it's contempories across the board from HOYA - Essilor, etc. have trouble with the reading zone if the add is above 1.75.  Many clients are preferring the old front surface designs (if they can't afford the individualised lens series at the top end.)

Will this lens address any of the issues created by semi optimisation in high add powers? 

Thanks for your help :cheers:

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## MarySue

:drop:


> I'll admit I have progressive design fatigue as well.
> 
> What are we to do out here in the field?  
> 
> If we have to analyze every new permutation of every one of the big four's lenses (Varilux, Hoya, Shamir, CZV) we're going to go nuts.


Stop whinging!

OK take the equivalent statement from another eye health professional -- If optometrists had to learn every new eye health discovery they'd go nuts.  Do you know how that sounds?

Is this the reason we d.o.'s tend to get a bad rap from optometry, and there is little if any cooperation for us to increase our practice scopes world-wide? Do they view us as sales people who teach our clients that optical lenses compare with cars and TVs?

Lift the profession, suck it up, learn about the lenses. Basically - we all need to do what we were trained to do!

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## OCP

> :drop:
> 
> Stop whinging!
> 
> OK take the equivalent statement from another eye health professional -- If optometrists had to learn every new eye health discovery they'd go nuts.  Do you know how that sounds?
> 
> Is this the reason we d.o.'s tend to get a bad rap from optometry, and there is little if any cooperation for us to increase our practice scopes world-wide? Do they view us as sales people who teach our clients that optical lenses compare with cars and TVs?
> 
> Lift the profession, suck it up, learn about the lenses. Basically - we all need to do what we were trained to do!


Well back to basic.
Actually it´s all about clear and wide vision area. NOTHING ELSE.
Forget anything else. The companies will try to sell their products different ways, to sell YOU a HISTORY. It has always been so. They cant really tell you the different from previous designs, so it´s much more easy to tell you a history. A history we all understand.
Ex: Head mover, eye mover, leisure design, previous lens design, quality of life design etc, etc.
Your recommended solution (in the optical- and other businesses) is not better than the weakest information you have, and in our business the weakest information is the lens design. Even the sales rep, can only tell you a history. I can tell you a little secret. "The lens is not better than the software programmer from the manufacturer"!! This statement is 100 % correct.!

Welcome to Crazy Land.

Mike.

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## Raanan Bavli

that images of smiling models and a nice scening view, are more informative than power and astigmatism maps?

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## Darryl Meister

> I'm heading to the product launch in November in Auckland New Zealand. I know we'll get plenty of information on features and benefits, but where can I find the technical data on the lens design itself


SOLA Elan hasn't launched globally yet, so there probably isn't a lot of information available from the websites. However, if you want to e-mail me, I can send you an electronic copy of the SOLA Elan white paper, which is quite detailed.




> that images of smiling models and a nice scening view, are more informative than power and astigmatism maps?


I agree, which is why Carl Zeiss Vision also makes extensive contour plots, product comparisons, and numerical results available in technical pieces for each of our products, including SOLA Elan.

Of course, contour plots are only indicative of performance. Many factors contribute to visual performance and wearer satisfaction. Also, contour plots require an understanding of progressive optics in order to interpret them properly.

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## Raanan Bavli

> I agree, which is why Carl Zeiss Vision also makes extensive contour plots


 
So, where can we see therse?

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## Darryl Meister

> So, where can we see therse?


Conveniently available for download from the Carl Zeiss Vision website(s). Just look for the white paper for the product in question. CZV sales professionals should also have hard copies available.

In fact, the Zeiss Individual white paper alone has nearly 20 different contour plots and optical comparisons. I often have a hard time locating even basic details regarding the features of lens designs from some lens manufacturers, on the other hand...

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## rdcoach5

EVERY single Sola One we tried became a remake! No one liked it and went back to their previous progressive or anything else. I would hope they didn't too closely follow this sola One design.

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## MarySue

> EVERY single Sola One we tried became a remake! No one liked it and went back to their previous progressive or anything else. I would hope they didn't too closely follow this sola One design.


Do you take monocular PD's and heights before recommending a lens design?  Also - 8-12 degrees of pantoscopic tilt will help.  The Sola One isn't a lens I would choose outside of these parameters, as the front surface design will limit the width of the intermediate and mess with the reading.

Also - you might want to try the "Mirror Method" when dispensing also known as the "Lewis Method" for measurment.  It will indicate how far the client's eyes move down the corridor to read - if the movement is assymetric, and also spot assymetric convergence.

:)

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## Darryl Meister

> EVERY single Sola One we tried became a remake! No one liked it and went back to their previous progressive or anything else.


I'm sorry to hear of your negative experience with the product, which I honestly find very surprising.

In addition to winning the Optical Laboratory Association's Award of Excellence in Lens Design, SOLAOne has been one of our most successful SOLA lens designs since VIP was launched in 1987.

In a market acceptance survey conducted among over 300 eye care professionals, over 97% were satisfied with the performance of SOLAOne. And keep in mind that there are now hundreds of thousands of satisfied SOLAOne wearers out there.

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## jefe

There actually is a Zeiss lens sold though Walmart -- the Zeiss Experience.  From what I've been told, it's the Brevity.  So if we were to exclude companies or product lines which show up in retail chains, we would have to dump both Sola and Zeiss (and others).   I'm not prepared to do that.

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## jefe

I tried it a couple of times and didn't get the impression it was well-received by the patient.

The Sola One HD had markings so obvious I could see them from several feet away.

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## KITT

In the UK/Ireland at least the Sola 1 is most popular in the Specsavers chain. I would say around 80%+ of all the Sola 1's sold are done thru Specsavers.

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## rdcoach5

> I'm sorry to hear of your negative experience with the product, which I honestly find very surprising.
> 
> In addition to winning the Optical Laboratory Association's Award of Excellence in Lens Design, SOLAOne has been one of our most successful SOLA lens designs since VIP was launched in 1987.
> 
> In a market acceptance survey conducted among over 300 eye care professionals, over 97% were satisfied with the performance of SOLAOne. And keep in mind that there are now hundreds of thousands of satisfied SOLAOne wearers out there.


 
Darryl, I know the GT2 is a digitally surfaced glass mold design and has had Great acceptance in our practice but I can't believe Sola One comes close in design. When we tried it and saw all those remakes, we immediately dropped it as would any dispensary. Surely the Sola One is an older design? The GT2 on the other hand got wows from the start.

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## Darryl Meister

SOLAOne was launched in the last quarter of 2003, so Yes, it is an older lens design than GT2. Still, we have had a great deal of success with SOLAOne over the past few years.

Assuming that the lenses were fitted and fabricated correctly, your SOLAOne non-adapts could be due to the wearers' use of a previous progressive lens that differed significantly in design from the SOLAOne.

Also keep in mind that, as the wearer's addition power increases, the "bad stuff" in the periphery of progressive lenses also increases, which can trigger a complaint from unsuspecting wearers after a new eye exam.

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## MarySue

> In the UK/Ireland at least the Sola 1 is most popular in the Specsavers chain. I would say around 80%+ of all the Sola 1's sold are done thru Specsavers.


In New Zealand - SpecSavers use only Pentax lenses - interesting.
 :Rolleyes:

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## Aberdeen Angus

Mary Sue, i think you should investigate this more closely. Specsavers have bought the right to use the name pentax for marketing purposes, but this does not mean that the lenses are actually manufactured by pentax. You can receive a lens in specsavers by any manufacturer and it will be called pentax. It just depends on who is giving them the best deal at the time. Apparently this is all entirely legal.

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## MarySue

Aberdeen - I'm gutted!  So how does a dispensing optician who works for them know what they are selling?

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## Aberdeen Angus

Oh it's not that bad, from what I've heard you do get a choice of a few lenses to order under the pentax name. In addition, depending on your JVP, you can order any lens you wish ( although this takes the price out of the price range specsavers likes to advertise). The problem I have is when sometimes you phone to ask for the details of a previous varifocal dispense for someone and all I get is "It's specsavers elite!" to which I ask "yes, but which lens is it?", "Specsavers elite!" is the reply. Of course you can always check the engravings..... I must say, I have NEVER seen an actual Pentax varifocal from Specsavers. Usually it's sola, and for a while back there was lots or rodenstock life XS. What annoys me is the the public perception. If they think they are getting pentax, they SHOULD be getting pentax, not just anything (no matter how good) that has had a nice name stuck on it. (I'm not even a great fan of pentax lenses!)

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## IntoEyes

> Often, sucessful older-generation progressive lens designs continue to enjoy distribution after the introduction of more advanced lens designs in order to service eye care professionals or retail chains seeking to offer "value" or "budget" progressive lenses to certain patients who are more price conscious.
> 
> Generally, as a progressive lens design matures and becomes obsolete, the cost of the lens steadily declines. Consequently, it's just basic economics, not snake oil.


agreed! Since all BC/BS has been monopolized by DV....we have to still offer a premium product to those insurance pt's even if that lens design is 15yrs old. I would much rather give myself a piece of mind fitting them in a Zeiss-brand lens even if it is an old-school design. chances are it's better optics to begin with....perhaps Zeiss could just do 3D surfacing on their VIP and all the "antiqued" jewels os the past and rename it w 3D behind it....just food for thought ;)

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## FVCCHRIS

> I think you've coined a new phrase for the industry!!!!:idea:
> 
> Do you think I could file for disability with Social Security for that.
> 
> I think most Optical Professionals are suffering from PDF.
> 
> :cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:


And which company do you think will come out with that New Design for us Presbyopic Optical Proffessionals suffering from this malady? We'll call it the POPPDFing lens. :Eek:

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## Cal2007

I am unfamiliar with this new lens. Can anyone describe for me how this lens is different from the HDV?

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## MarySue

> I am unfamiliar with this new lens. Can anyone describe for me how this lens is different from the HDV?


The corridor length is automatically adjusted to the longest possible length in the frame you're using - so if you have a higher add, it eases some of the effect of the astigmatic abberation.  It's non customisable, so if you want to specify the corridor length, you need to use a CZ Frame Fit or the Essilor F360 or something equivalent.

Cheers :Nerd:

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