# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  Lux and the Independent

## Live Eyewear

I am probably one of the worst members of Optiboard, as I rarely post, but have checked the board ten times a day, religeously for two years. The recent announcement by Lux to purchase Cole has sparked some interesting comments, but as my company  derives 90% of it's revenue from servicing the independents, and actually keeping our products away from non-independent eyecare professionals, it makes me wonder if I fight for a cause that is not actively supported by independent eyecare professionals? So, if you are an indpendent, and would not mind, please answer this question?

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## Joann Raytar

We do our own thing within reason.  We don't set out to compete with the other guy, whoever that may be, chain or independent. Being different from other eyecare experiences is what keeps our patients and customers coming back.

We do keep tabs on pricing and what product is moving in the area but that doesn't mean we set out to match everyone else exactly.

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## For-Life

I will not dispense Lux products, because they are the competition.  With the amount of choice out there, there is absolutely no reason for me to dispense Lux.  So why would I decide to buy from the competition, when I can buy from someone else?

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## Foveator

Lux is a predator. And a good one at that.

Any company who will allow me to buy and sell their products as long as I can meet a high quarterly quota to "earn" an industry standard discount (read 'push other vendors out') or, will have me as a member of their provider panel, as long as I purchase a certain number of frames for each customer they send my way, is not my friend. They may not even be legal, but pushing the envelope is their forte. They don't just think out of the box while we're restrained in the box, they don't even think eyeglasses and eyecare. They think world domination and are succeeding.

I believe that the Lux stock will soar over the next year and fortunes will be made there, but not in the trenches with Lux product. It is a brilliantly run company in the best traditions of the game Monopoly. They are globally setting standards that may not be what we find acceptable for patient care. But that is of no concern for them. They will continue to broaden their market share until everyone is forced, whether they want to or not, to buy Lux product, even if they don't know that Lux is the hidden giant behind a third or half of the optical outlets on Earth.

Imagine going into a giant mall with a hundred stores. Imagine finding out that every one of those stores was owned by the same company! That's the vision of Lux. And if they made me the right offer, I'd join them too. We all have our priorities and a comfortable retirement someday is one of them. Lux has the luxury of never having that priority, and the luxury of being able to wait until all of us are gone. They will step into the vacuum of our former selves and expand some more.

How many new independent optical stores or private practices have opened in your area in the last 5 years? There will be fewer in each upcoming year. But there will be a couple more ubiquitous chain stores on the corner, making the local population think they have a choice, but we all know that they will be the mice running through the maze to deliver their dollars to the Lux treasury. 

You've got to give these guys credit. They've pulled off a huge coup in our industry in the past 10 years. They've had one terrific ride and this new bronco is just beling released from the gate. I'd say, "Hold on to your hat...and your glasses!"

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## Chris Ryser

Foveator,

*You just said it in brilliant terms.*

The wake up call has come in this time. Everybody was screaming when Lens Crafters was bought up and was going to cut Lux off as a supplier.

Lux also bought the largest chain in Australia a few month ago, so this is a world wide trend all paid by for with you guy's money.

And so far the Optiboard pupulation in general thinks that this is a normal fact of life and we just go on as we alway's did.

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## sjthielen

There are alot of frame companies out there, most have a vested intrest in your practice succeding. Why do business with a company that could care less about you and really doesnt need you. Most frame manufactures need you to sell their product, Lux does not. Any sales they get from independents is gravy.

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## For-Life

> *sjthielen said:* 
> There are alot of frame companies out there, most have a vested intrest in your practice succeding. Why do business with a company that could care less about you and really doesnt need you. Most frame manufactures need you to sell their product, Lux does not. Any sales they get from independents is gravy.


That is what I have been trying to say.  Do not give them that extra gravy.

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## hcjilson

No one would ever accuse one who has supported Optiboard they way your company has, of being a "worst" member.You are here on a regular basis and an intelligent contributor. We're fortunate to have you with us.

I think you miss a lot in not going after the mass marketers, particularly with the products you sell. From my point of view, if my customers are asking for it I put it in stock. Wider exposure creates wider interest. It would be like saying I sell sunglasses but I don't sell the worlds best selling sunglass (Lg Metal Ray Ban) because the company that owns RayBans also owns a company that competes directly with me. Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.

I have long since given up the idea I am going to fill every Rx in my area. What I do want to do, is the best I can with what I am given to work with.If you can give me a product that people are asking for, I don't care who else sell it. My customers are in MY store, not someone elses.

 When someone asks me how they can be a sucess in business, I ask a simple question. "Can you follow directions?" The answer is yes. "Then take your next three RIGHTS!"

The definition of a sucessful retail operation goes something like this:
Having the RIGHT product,
in the RIGHT place,
at the RIGHT time.

The above is not rocket science, and its no secret. It is taught everywhere. The trick is focusing on yourself, not on the "other" guy.

My feeling is that we're all in business.We all sell something. Name of that game is sell all you can. Live, if you get a chance to put your product into LC's, Pearles, Wal Marts etc. By all means do it! It will make my business better.

hj

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## Foveator

As of 1/31, the site has been accessed 365 times and 26 people voted. Unless those 26 people have checked back a dozen or so times, lot of people won't anonymously divulge their feelings. 

Pretty wierd? Is the Lux police monitoring the internet?

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## ctoale

I believe you are very right, given the conversation that is going on another thread, the lux rep is defending its turf ! Do not be surprised or underestimated by this competitor.

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## Jubilee

Well some of us anyway can't really respond. Many who participate in these forums aren't independent.  Many have no say in what is carried or not in their stores. Then there are those who don't work in the dispensary, but in optical in another way. 

I myself didn't vote since I am a current employee of Lux. Therefore I felt it would be misleading if I voted. Though I have checked this thread since I was curious to how the independents do feel on this manner

Cassandra

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## sjthielen

Im depressed at how many buyers dont look at the over all picture of the industry when making their buying choices.  Remember all you fellow buyers, your buyong choices do effect our industry as a whole.

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## Live Eyewear

harry,

I read your comments and there are many people who would agree with you. However, I disagree, but my reasoning needs explantion, as it is not as clear cut as some might think.

There will always be chains, mass market retailers, and independents. If there is not a clear and compelling reason for a consumer to shop at an independent, then the independent is going to be fighting a loosing battle to stay afloat. 

However, a great deal of very succesful independents realize that they can differentiate their business with their selection of products and their level of service. There are many companies that manufacture eyewear that cannot be found in chains or mass environments by the choice of the manufacturer, not the retailer. If our product was readily available in non-eyecare specialist environments, or "cookie-cut" optical chains, it would not receive the attention and respect it deserves. Now, you can go to Wal-Mart and buy a very similar product, and your average consumer would not know the difference at the time of purchase, but within a very short time he or she may begin to question the quality, lifespan or true value of the item. Whereas, if they had bought the "Optical market" version, from an optical professional, they would walk out with more of an education on the advantages the independent optical version has over the chain/mass version of the exact saem concept.

That benefits us as a manufacturer, as we want the features shown, talked about and exlpained. That's why our product costs more to purchases, as it costs a lot mroe to make. Leaving it on a rack in a mass environment with staff that aren't exactly as well educated or versed in the nuances of polarized eyewear, would result in avereage sales and we would be forever defending a pricepoint issue.

Pricepoint is important, and can only be supported by an indpendent marketplace. Consumers should expect better service and product selection from an independent over a chain. It's the same in almost every other industry. What suprises me, is that independents don't see the true value in having to compete with chains and mass. By carrying products that can be found in Lens Crafters or mass enviroments, they remove one of the weapons they have in differentiating their business. Sure, they can delvier exceptional service, and should continue to do so, but why would you remove the best reason for a consumer to shop independent over chain? Why not deliver your customer a noticable difference in service and product? 

Live Eyewear for example, has a fantastic independent following. People are starting to realize the potential in carrying optical grade versions of a product that has been available in mass for less than $20 for twenty years (over 60 milllion paris sold YTD). How many of those 60 million people would have purchased a higher grade, more fashionable, better designed versions for twice or three times the price? We will never subject our independents to the embarrasment of having a customer come back and say "I just found this in LensCrafters for 35% less, give me back my money"..

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## sjthielen

Bravo, Live you stated that perfectly.  I hope more independents would feel the same and support a company like yours.

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## StephenD

An interesting thread, but why are we only writing about Luxottica?   Here in the UK we have De Rigo owning Dolland & Aitchison, a chain with over 300 brances, supplying them with Police etc.   Also Marchon has a share in David Clulow, Inspecs (FCUK and other brands) with their own retail showroom etc. etc.

Who knows about plans from Safilo, Marcolin and all the other big suppliers.

I would love not to give business to the opposition, but I must stock something!

While I'm moaning, how can I buy Gucci sunglasses from Costco UK for no more than I have to pay Safilo, or Armani , or Guess, or Gant or Calvin Klien or lots of others?

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## Chris Ryser

*I will not dispense at all - Lux is the competition  13 44.83% 
I dispense - I see no reason not to  15 51.72% 
I do not dispense, but not because of Lux  1 3.45%* 


Above Poll results are poor and I just can not see that an Independent Optician can vote to dispense a product line made by a direct competitor.

Maybe the poll should have been re-worded to have only INDEPENDENT opticians vote and let everybody else abstain.

*It just does not make sense that a normal human mind does NOT care to directly finance the competition.*

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## jofelk

What if Lux decided not to allow independents to sell their popular line of frames. Would this thread be about their monopoly in the market, would this be legal?

Essilor labs are my competition!
Would you, if you were an independent LAB, not stock and sell an Essilor product because they will not allow you to process Varilux lenses?

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## hcjilson

the customer of the independent is not the customer of the mass merchant. Live wishes to provide the independent with a means to offer his customer with something unique, something you can't get in a mass merchant's store.This is the marketing plan Live Eyewear uses for its product, and apparently its sucessful for them, but that is due, in large measure,to the size of the market, and the product itself.

While I understand the approach as explained, I would have a problem if I were the CEO, and Sales came in telling me they passed on an order to place the complete line in 1200 locations because they were afraid of ruffling the feathers of existing customers. That is due to my background in sales, and my belief that sales are what drive businesses.

Lux is a manufacturer.The name of that game is to produce product. They make an incredibly large range of product.  So large,in fact, that its range would more than adequately stock even a large optical shop. So large, in fact, that the complete line is not represented in LC's. Its not just product either, its well styled, and well made. Its quality is excellent.

Should I shortchange my customer by not offering this product? I don't think so..I'd be cutting off my nose.....etc. I don't care who else has the product as long as my customer is happy with what I sell them.

hj

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## Chris Ryser

> *jofelk said:* 
> What if Lux decided not to allow independents to sell their popular line of frames. Would this thread be about their monopoly in the market, would this be legal?


The named company is smarter than not to allow independents sell their products.

* It is the independent who makes the choice what to buy and what to sell in their store or stores, and with the huge selection of frames on today's market should find it easy to find lots of equivalent rproducts.*




> *jofelk said:* 
> Essilor labs are my competition!
> Would you, if you were an independent LAB, not stock and sell an Essilor product because they will not allow you to process Varilux lenses?


If they are your competition and you do not want to support them it is your free choice to stock for example only a minimum of what you think is needed and buy the bulk elsewhere.

Many lab owners might also bank on selling out to one of the large companies someday and retire to the sunny south and therefore support the competition.




> *Harry said:* 
> Lux is a manufacturer.The name of that game is to produce product. They make an incredibly large range of product. So large,in fact, that its range would more than adequately stock even a large optical shop. So large, in fact, that the complete line is not represented in LC's. Its not just product either, its well styled, and well made. Its quality is excellent.


I don't think the discussion is on range of models and also quality of the products.
*The discussion is on ARE YOU SUPPORTING A COMPETITION that is out to kill you off?*

This sounds like you giving the guy who wants to burgler your house and maybe kill you while doing it, an open invitation to do it and finance the renting of a truck to remove the goodies that belong to you.

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## hcjilson

that Lux is out to kill me? They're in business, I'm in business. Their customer is not MY customer. I can live with that. I can live with them trying to attract my customers and they can live with me trying to attract theirs. THEY are not the competition I worry about. I am much more concerned with a sharper independent and thats why I try to stay on top of my game. I try to stay flexible which makes competing somewhat easier than trying to move a mountain.

hj

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## sjthielen

If I owned a wholesale lab I would not do business with Essilor as they are a bigger monopoly to your business than lux is to mine.  Try selling better and unique products to compete, not the same.  You are just helping your competition out.

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## sjthielen

Reality is that Lux has closed Independent accounts that do not agree with their business practices. Try not doing business with them and see if they close your account.  I cant think of another company that would close my account for the future if I decided not to purchase from them now.

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## paw

I have no data whatsoever on this, but it is my impression that independents make a minority of the market sales.  Now that Lux has Cole, I think whether or not independents sell Lux is a moot point for Lux - the impact on Lux would be small.

Having said that however, why give Lux business if there are frames of equal quality, range of selection, etc from other companies.

I wonder if Lux factored in loss of sales due to animosity from independents when they calculated this buyout?

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## fletch

If US Shoe owned Lenscrafter and was buying cole what would be different?

In 10 years of Lux owning Lenscrafters what have they done to try to put you out of business that Us Shoe would not have done!

All I ever hear is don't buy from them they are going to put you out of business!  You don't buy from the competition!  Etc.  I have yet to see the damage in 10 years!

I read a Vision Monday article saying that Lux is buying Cole so the can be more competitve.  That tells me that they will raise prices and make it easier for me to compete!

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## fletch

I sell Ray-Ban very well!

What line could I replace it with that I don't already have?  Will more people know that line?

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## shanbaum

> Six month later he fell asleep at the wheel of his new Mercedes 500, drove it into a hydro pole and totalled it.


Allow me to translate from the Canadian: they refer to electricity as "hydro". I suspect that many of mah fellow markins aren't aware of that.

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## Chris Ryser

> *Allow me to translate from the Canadian: they refer to electricity as "hydro". I suspect that many of mah fellow markins aren't aware of that.*


You are so right. They call electricity also electricity in Canada but here in Quebec where we have the largest water supplied turbine plants in the world, they call elctricity also "Hydro Electric Power". Therefore a "Hydro Pole"

I have not heard yet the expession of a "Cell Pole" which would be a trasnmission pole for cellular telephones or a frame pole where you could display dead beat frames at reduced prices.

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## Jedi

> You are so right. They call electricity also electricity in Canada but here in Quebec where we have the largest water supplied turbine plants in the world, they call elctricity also "Hydro Electric Power". Therefore a "Hydro Pole"


Yup, it's a Quebec thing, not much call for "hydro pole" in Alberta, (virtually a desert).

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