# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  walmart optical

## harry a saake

Anyone who works there know about a story floating around, that there will be no more walmart optical managers, they will hire licenses, and then walmart will hire a manager, who will wear many hats, he or she will be the manager of optical, photo, hair salon, etc, etc

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## Jacqui

I've heard it here too, don't know how true it is.

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## For-Life

> Anyone who works there know about a story floating around, that there will be no more walmart optical managers, they will hire licenses, and then walmart will hire a manager, who will wear many hats, he or she will be the manager of optical, photo, hair salon, etc, etc



This is probably done, because the manager is there to handle the business side point of view.  For a chain that makes all of its product decisions and such in the top end, it is not necessary to have an optician.  In this case I would actually hire a very good, knowledgable (about management), unlicenced manager over a licenced optician who does not have a management background.

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## EyeFitWell

For-Life,
I believe we have all had the experience of working for an Optician or OD/MD who was a fantastic doctor or optician but not at all a good manager.  I know I've been there.  Medical school does not teach management skills.
I have also, however, been on the other side of this one.  Working for a manager who does not understand optics can be quite a pain!  It usually winds up with frustrated managers asking their frustrated staff to do things that do not make sense in the optical world.
It will be interesting how this all winds up, but my guess is that the optical shops will be more or less left alone to fend for themselves.

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## SarahMP584

I just recently left my job at WM optical...
The restructuring of management applied to photo and Tire Lube Express. They Now call Pharmacy and Optical "Professional Services..."

Both the managers I worked for have little to no optical experience.

It was funny because my manager and I would be sitting at a desk, both in lab coats...And someone would walk in with a smashed up pair of glasses, hand it to him and ask if he could fix them. He would them hand them to me and say "no but she can!" 
They always looked confused. 
He knew how to keep decent inventory and manage money, so thats all they cared about.

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## cocoisland58

I would be willing to bet that in ten years or less there will be no optical in Wal-mart.  I worked for K-mart optical when it opened 25 years ago. Same set up almost exactly.  My second optical job.  It wasn't profitable for them and it won't be in the long run for Wal-mart.

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## CCGREEN

Wal-Mart reminds me of my ex-wife, it was good to see her come and good to see her go, even though we share two children, [23 & 13]. Each store seems to have it's own click of Managers and if you do not fit in then your days are numbered. It allways got under my skin if a produce manager or tire and lube manager came over and tried to tell me how to handle my, "Patient". Twenty five years in optical, A.B.O. & N.C.L.E. certified, have a Florida State license & and Florida Board Certified and some grease monkey or foledge fondler is going to try and tell me how to care for my patient. I am a Optician first, that's what I went to school for, If thay want to pay me for management then that is a seperate check. That is why people go to school and get their degree in business management. Optician's need to stop giveing these big box stores a two for one deal. It takes a good manager and a good optician to make it work and if the optician can do both then pay them for both. But most of the time in Florida, what you need to do as a manager for the good of the company goes against the rules of the Board of Opticianry. So I beleive in Florida you should be able to do eather or, even if you want to be a Distric Manager, it is a conflict of intreast.

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## joshy

the optical mgr position isnt going anyplace-  know that for a fact

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## Johns

> It was funny because my manager and I would be sitting at a desk, both in lab coats....


You can dress them up, but...

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## SarahMP584

hehehehehe

:cheers:

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## RGC_man

A friend of mine was a manager at ASDA optical, the British subsidiary of Wal-Mart. It was normal to be called out at a moment's notice to work the till, or clean restaurant tables, or stack shelves. Worst career dead-end of his life. Is the American parent company the same?

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## MarcE

I wouldn't bet on Wal-Mart optical closing up anytime soon.  The CEO of Wal-Mart knows that Optical has the highest profit margin of any department; 40%.  He said that in an article in the Wall Street Journal.  They are slowly moving to capture more high-end customers.  Something K-Mart and Sears never figured out how to do.  The only Wal-Mart opticals that they have closed were run by Davis or Cole (can't remember exactly).  They closed them so they could take them over and run them.  They have their own lab in Arkansas.  They have the buying power of the world's largest retail establishment.  Their costs are lower than dirt.  
Wal-Mart and Costco are the only retail competition that I am concerned about long term.  I really think that they will change the whole market.  I'm not talking about how LC changed the market.  I'm talking about the new price point for optical goods being half of what it is now and Wal-Mart having an optical in every town larger than 8,000 people.

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## Johns

> I'm talking about the new price point for optical goods being half of what it is now and Wal-Mart having an optical in every town larger than 8,000 people.


MarcE,

So long as they keep their quality at about half of what it is now, you needn't worry.

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## cocoisland58

[quote=Johns;164101]MarcE,

(So long as they keep their quality at about half of what it is now, you needn't worry.)


I have to agree.  They don't concern me a bit.  The frame selection is mediocre.  Half the floor space is taken up by the deal of the day in toys or cameras.  The staff wears lab coats.  Who does that anymore?  I once turned down a job because the staff wore scrubs.  I told them I didn't feel right trying to sell fashion eyewear whilst wearing my pajamas.  If Wal-mart thinks they are going to capture the high end customer they have another think coming.  If you want to sell high end you have to hire a certain "look" to put on the sales floor and it ain't your typical Wal-mart clerk.

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## MarcE

You guys think I'm silly to worry about Wal-Mart.  Over a period of a couple of decades, the market can change.  No one makes money selling Custom-made high-end computers now.  They are commodities.  Actually Dell makes any computer you want from high-end to low-end.  They are all still commodities.  Could it happen to eyewear?  Many of you think no, but it could.  Wal-Mart sells plasma screen TVs.
You are right, Wal-Mart is not the pinnacle of service and quality.  But many people are happy with it, especially if they save a buck.
I'm saying that unlike the previous retail players, Wal-Mart can change the market.  They have for 9 out of 10 downtown businesses. Just because optical is more insulated doesn't mean it's not possible.

You say that Wal-Mart's frame selection is mediocre.  That's true, but they could change that by the end of the week if they decide to.  And they could buy Via Spiga or Sillouette for half the price you and I get it for.

Maybe next month they will decide to hire a VP from LensCrafters and their training and quality improves drastically.

20 years ago we could have been having this same discussion about retail pharmacy.  The independent pharmacies would say "But their quality isn't as good"  "People want the personal touch"  Now they order meds through a 1-800 number.  A computer can alert to any drug interactions better than a pharmacist can anyway.
In our small town Wal-Mart does double the Pharmacy business that even Walgreens does.

Does Wal-Mart hurt me right now. Not a lot.  But they have the ability to change the market.  I'm not able to change the market.  Lencrafters doesn't even have that ability.

Markets change.  If you anticipate the change and can adapt, MAYBE you can survive, maybe you can't.

Imagine this:
An eyeglass kiosk at the worlds largest retailer with one employee or maybe none.  A virtual try-on system that has 750,000 frames in it's database ranging from $18 to $1800.  The system measures PD, SH, differences in ear height, etc. better than you or I can.  The lens is produced robotically in the world's largest lab, or in Mexico.  Your glasses arrive in the mail.  They come to you for an adjustment.  You can't compete because the customer (no longer a patient) paid less than your wholesale price.  They leave happy.

I know, I know; you say "That's not the customer I want to see".  But I say the only customers that won't use this system will be in rest homes.  Maybe that's your new niche.  Serving home-bound people.

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## EyeFitWell

[quote=cocoisland58;164116The staff wears lab coats. Who does that anymore? [/quote]
I cannot tell you how frequently the customers at LC would believe anything a lab tech said over the associate b/c they were wearing a lab coat.  The customer could be working with the General Manager, Licensed Optician, and our three-week-old trainee would walk out with a lab coat on and the customer would listen to her every time.  
I completely agree about the scrubs, but I wear a lab coat sometimes if I'm cold, or if I want to have my pens/screwdrivers handy.  I think it looks nice, and reminds people that they're buying both a medical and a fashion product.

I've heard that the entire intention of WM Optical is to get people in the door to shop the rest of the store.  In Other Words, they do not intend to make any money off optical goods, but rather the products the customer buys while waiting for their glasses.
Anyone else heard this?

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## Chris Ryser

> *Markets change. If you anticipate the change and can adapt, MAYBE you can survive, maybe you can't.*


Marc...........you are dead on target........................

However before WalMart changes I can see another change......and that is today's and a fast coming worsening of the economy.

Most People will soon, not have the mobey for any high end frames and lenses. How will you prepare for that immense change?  Will you be ready to keep your customers who suddenly start feeling pinch or will they just go to the sources they know are and have been cheaper rather to their preferred optician of whom they know is high end?

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## Jubilee

However, how many people have seen a frame in a catalog or similar picture and then when you saw it in person the color was off, or the shape didn't quite look right, etc..

Or have a great looking frame that doesn't fit worth a hoot or is really uncomfortable. How about weight? Quality? How are all these things assessed without handling the product. Sure currently people have an idea of the quality of a Kenneth Cole frame, or the Armani has a certain minimum expectation to it, but can you really tell without trying on the frame how it will _feel_? 

Cassandra

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## harry a saake

Ok, a couple of points since i started this thread, i had a talk with a walmart DM, the optical is NOT going to be included with the manager of all the other depts.

Also, after this year the optical will not be selling all of the other items such as telescopes, binoculars etc.

The idea will be to make the operation much more professional, just like if you walked into a doctors office.

As far as the lab coat issue goes, theres a big difference to me, between a lab coat, which is at a length below your knees, vs a medical jacket, which i personally like to wear as it has all the pockets that are useful.

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## SarahMP584

I agree with the Lab coat thing, I like to wear it because then I have all my crap. No looking for a highlighter, PD stick, pens, screwdriver, sticky notes, chap stik etc....

Plus, being a 22 year old female, people actually tend to believe me when I give my professional opinion more so than when I DONT wear the coat. 

sometimes, I just want to scream, I REALLY DO KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!! I KNOW MORE THAN THE MANAGER DARN IT!!! ASK ME! :hammer:

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## EyeFitWell

> Plus, being a 22 year old female, people actually tend to believe me when I give my professional opinion more so than when I DONT wear the coat. 
> 
> sometimes, I just want to scream, I REALLY DO KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!! I KNOW MORE THAN THE MANAGER DARN IT!!! ASK ME! :hammer:


AMEN!!!
Sarah, I live in NC and you're from here, right?
I know exactly how you feel.  I think I provide a distinct advantage over the 50-year-old optician who just doesn't remember the material and doesn't care any more (note: that comment excludes all members of Optiboard-you guys aren't the type I'm talking about).  I'm 22 and still fascinated by optical.  Plus, I'm in school NOW, so I've got this info fresh in my head.  I wish that people wouldn't judge so quickly and think I'm just a 'salesperson.':p

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## SarahMP584

You got it Eyefitwell, 
Got dragged to CA by my husband....

Fortunatley for me, when I moved here, I did some more studying on my own and passed both abo and NCLE, where as in NC I would just be finishing my apprenticeship (sp?) 

That is the ONLY upside, because I would actually be making MORE there. 

:shiner: 

Oh, and Harry Saake, Your son Will is the one who told me about optiboard at my best friend's 20th birthday party before I  moved out here! He and his wife were at my going away party. Nice people! :cheers:

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## EyeFitWell

Congrats on your ABO and NCLE!

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## SarahMP584

Thanks so much! 


I MISS HOME! I want some barbecue and Cheerwine..... :cry:

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## MarcE

> I've heard that the entire intention of WM Optical is to get people in the door to shop the rest of the store. In Other Words, they do not intend to make any money off optical goods, but rather the products the customer buys while waiting for their glasses.
> Anyone else heard this?


I read the exact opposite in the Wall Street Journal.  The CEO of Wal-Mart said that their net profit in optical (after cost of goods, and labor costs) is 40%, which is by far the highest of any department in Wal-Mart.  For a company that averages about 3-4% net profit overall, the optical department at 40% return is very exciting to them.  Optical has the attention of the upper management.  They want to increase their "capture rate" just like all of us.  They already have the low-end consumer.  If they want to increase their business they only have one way to go.  Get the high-end consumer (read: your lucrative patients).  Just because they haven't done it so far doesn't mean they won't in the future. 

I know we want to believe that they aren't making a profit because the prices are low, but they are.  They are making more a profit than most of us are and their retail sales price is below our wholesale costs.  That is why I say they can change the market.  There must be a different way to buy to keep our COGS lower than it is now.  Chris and EncoreJim and Fezz and others have spoken to this and understand.

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## EyeFitWell

Marc-
I don't even remember where I heard that from, so I can't speak to its accuracy.  I just thought I'd throw it out there and see if anyone had heard the same.  Thanks for setting the record straight, though!  I've read what Chris/Fezz/Encore had to say on the subject, and you've all got great points.

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## JerryR

Just some more info on WalMart, a good friend of mine who works their told me they just hired an LDO to manage the Vision Center she works in.  So much for WM not wanting LDO's to manage.
I am not a WM fan but i would like to say that the picture MarcE paints is well within the capabilities of WM, and by the way MarcE I think your post was well written and well thought out

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## Johns

> I've heard that the entire intention of WM Optical is to get people in the door to shop the rest of the store. In Other Words, they do not intend to make any money off optical goods, but rather the products the customer buys while waiting for their glasses.
> Anyone else heard this?


I've heard a variation of the same story...

I had a WM Optical mgr tell me that they most definitely are trying to make every dim they can, but they don't want to rush the glasses because they want to make sure a new pay period has passed for the customer so they'll have more $ to spend on the return trip.

I've also heard that the average WM shopper spends $42 more than they intended to spend, on items they did not go to the store intending to buy.

Who knows ? Who really cares?

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## chip anderson

I don't really know that you can tell how comfortable a frame will be by trying it on.  It's not a car or a woman.  It can be adjusted and modifited to fit and individual head and face.  It will have a different weight with precription lenses.  I sometimes tell patients that I can make almost any frame fit as long as we don't defy the laws of physics too far.

Unless you are more contencious than most, half the frames on your boards are out of symetry before sale and adjustment.

Chip:cheers:

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## karen

> Just some more info on WalMart, a good friend of mine who works their told me they just hired an LDO to manage the Vision Center she works in.  So much for WM not wanting LDO's to manage.



That would be a good idea.....my dad just escaped from a Walmart (he's an OD who had been in private practice for 30 years and then retired, moved and needed a job) and the Vision Center Manager there had no optical background when they hired her and hasn't seemed to learn much since. She does get called out on the floor to do other managerial stuff in the actual store. I think if they get better trained they could give the rest of us a run for the money.  In the part of Texas where my folks live people who would not go to Walmart here go there all the time for their glasses.  My mom's real estate agent buys her glasses at WalMart and she has way more disposable income than the average patient there.

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## a1vo

At least in California

Wal-mart not only taking back those "leased" optical stores back as "corporate-own" one by one. They now also making ODs as salary employees not independent. Heard that from one of the OD at W-M in my town.

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## Alan W

I've been reading your comments closely. Both of you have touched on some powerful key issues. For about a year and a half I managed a WM in Texas. Then retired to a more lucrative industry aftr 41 years. I discovered from a very good experiential reference that where the WM is, influences the quality of optician. Texas is NOT a breeding ground for quality opticians. Optometry has seen to that. And, WM certainly gains from that lower gene pool. But, "58", you're dead on. Trailer Trash won't be found selling at Gucci's! Having been a founder of LC in California, my own high end stores in upscale California, and "ugh", WM/Texas, I can say without equivocation not to worry about changing the market. Rather, focus on changing that single customer. That "one at a time" philosophy prevails whether you are selling mens suits a block away from WM or selling glasses a block away from WM. The one thing WM isn't interested in or a WM employee has absolutely any clue about is how to romance YOUR product, serve YOUR customer like he/she is royalty, and put YOUR THUMBPRINT on what and where you do opticianry. If you are not now a superb technician, increase the spread between you and that former Garden Center-now-dispenser at WM. Walk the walk, talk the talk, after spending some time as a shopper at your nearest WM or Target or Sears or whatever. If you do, you'll know what needs to be done. Your professional persona can and will make all the difference. 

Oops...crash, bang.....sprained my ankle getting down from the soap box.

Ciao

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## geoflem

i'm a wal-mart apprentice optician in las vegas and my store is the 4th overall store in the nation. we made over 1.3 million at our store last year and we are shooting for 1.5 this year. my manager is a licensed optician and we never get called out to the floor / and laugh at any manager from another state that would try that. i have a excellent od and i'm bombarded with customers daily and i love it/ makes the day go by faster. we have a lot of frames designer knock off and such--but lately we have aquired celion dion and oscar / i want some gucci and dkny which is very possible especially dkny. we are now selling very high end lenses such as the new custom pals and another soon to be announced progressive made like a sv lense made digitally with specialized software and of course high end manufacturing. we intend not to take over optical completely but to be trusted eye care provider for low end and high end customers. nevada is a licensed state so pay here is very good but the plan for non licensed states is to make everyone in optical abo/ncle certified or else find another career.

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## Danimal2

Well Geo,
I believe that you are very mis informed with your very last statement.  Wal-Mart Optical is going through some changes with its Management structure.  It is being done to make sure that they are complying with Federal laws and Regulations (Fair Labor Standards Act).  They do not wish to lose management or staff with regards to these changes.  It is hopeful that it will provide Optical Management with a better balance between work life and home life.  This is being done across the nation so your state will not be left out.  

I would be curious to know how this Fair Labor Standards Act is going to effect the rest of the Optical Chains.

Wal-Mart Optical is here to Stay.  They will continue to make money (minimum net profit expectation is 18&#37; of sales with some stores making well over 30% net profit).  They will continue to improve products not just in the stores, but throughout the optical industry.  They have and will continue to sell Zeiss, Sola, Essilor, Varilux, Gentex and a host of other "YES REAL" name brand lenses at a price much cheaper than a lot of independents sell the generics that they state Wal-Mart sells.

There are Great Wal-Mart Opticals and there are Bad Wal-Mart Opticals.  Same is true with all of the chains as well as independents.

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## bt5050

So - if they like to promote - that they carry these Brand names - below - 
which i am sure they can get their hands on - 

why is it so hard for pts - to request some of these products ? 

we all have our products of choice - but when a customer comes to me - and says " i want this " - and as long as i can get it - i fill their requests - of coarse at a price that reflects it is not a product of choice - 

I have had numerous pts come in to us - because they state that when they - lets say - ask for Varilux and a design  by name - because they currently wear them - they either get a run around - or sometimes - they are told that they are getting say a panamic or physio - and they walk out with a essilor natural - or ziess lens ? 

I can say - that both near by walmart opticals have doen this to several pts of ours - these pts went there - and they have brought me the glasses - because they where un- happy with them - and come to find out - it is not what they told the sales staff they  wanted - 

I told them to go back - and they where faced with those explanations - such as  - "it is  Just like " or it is the same product - but under another name- ? 

I am not saying they don't provide good service for those seeking a budget - however - this issue with switching pals - it has happened numerous times -

seems like you either may work for them - or know someone that  does based from your post - so just wanted to get your insight on this issue - 
b







> Well Geo,
>   They have and will continue to sell Zeiss, Sola, Essilor, Varilux, Gentex and a host of other "YES REAL" name brand lenses at a price much cheaper than a lot of independents sell the generics that they state Wal-Mart sells.
> 
> There are Great Wal-Mart Opticals and there are Bad Wal-Mart Opticals.  Same is true with all of the chains as well as independents.

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## Happylady

> I have had numerous pts come in to us - because they state that when they - lets say - ask for Varilux and a design by name - because they currently wear them - they either get a run around - or sometimes - they are told that they are getting say a panamic or physio - and they walk out with a essilor natural - or ziess lens ? 
> 
> I can say - that both near by walmart opticals have doen this to several pts of ours - these pts went there - and they have brought me the glasses - because they where un- happy with them - and come to find out - it is not what they told the sales staff they wanted - 
> 
> I told them to go back - and they where faced with those explanations - such as - "it is Just like " or it is the same product - but under another name- ? 
> b


I have had several patients go to the Walmart near me and get told they were getting Varilux, but they were fit with the Natural.

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## Danimal2

And how many times do you think that Wal-Mart Optical has had pts.come in saying they purchased a said lens from someone else and would like to stay with the same product just to find out that what they have "Is Not" what was sold to them for 3 times the price.  Oh, that's right, Wal-Mart does not have good staff.  They do not have access to the latest Progressive Identifers.  They do not have Vendors such as Sola, Essilor, and so forth putting on classes in many of the local Wal-Mart Vision Centers.  Wal-Mart only has the bottom slime of the barrel of Opticians according to most.  GET REAL.

Read Most of this thread and you can see that in order to compete with the big boxes you must find your niche and capitalize on it.  Quit blaming the competition and use it to your advantage.  It takes less time than posting on boards about how horrible someone else is.

I have done this a long time.  Am I the best, hell no.  Am I good at what I do.  Hell yes.  Could I be better...duh...

I perfer Engineering and Computers.  Optic's is something I kind of fell into.  Life has kept me here and I have no complaints.  Independents Vs. Big Boxes, I would have to say in my area "BIG BOXES" have not treated me bad.

Interesting point.  Why don't more Wal-Mart Vision Center Managers get on this board and complain about what they have to put up with from their local competitors?  Answer: They do not have to prove their positions.  The public goes where they will be taken care of.  Price is seldom the factor.

I bet this will stir up some stuff.........................

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## bt5050

hi 

i am not trying to push anyones buttons - here - and just wanted to put the situation out there that i have seen numerous times - 

to tell you the truth - I really do not recall a situation like this one with WM- and Pal's - with another optical by us - I can not say that this does not happen elsewhere - i am sure it does - 

And i am not trying to say that opticians at WM - are any differant then others - SINCE WE ARE all the same in my eyes - no matter where we might be employed at the time - 

I do question the 2 WM - located by us - however - because this practice seems to be the norm - for them - and not the exception -  ( the issue with naturals for comforts ) 

Also i am not saying that these folks where even served by a LO- at wm - for all i know - these pts might have been helped by a sales person or something - 

BUT i will say this - AT THESE 2 WM (_)  - someone trained these folks to either be very good at the bait and switching of  these varilux lens - or they are great at  poorly training  the sales people they are supposed to be supervising - 

Sorry for putting salt in any wounds - it appears that this touched a sore spot before -
as for any staff we have - that is not an LO - each and every sale is reviewed by one - proir to the pt leaving - reguardless - of how long the sales assocaite was working in the field - that is just our job - 

as for the comment 
"Price is seldom the factor"" - i would love to see some customer feedback - stating price is not the major factor in choosing walmart - or any disocunter for that reason - 
there is nothing wrong with it - however lets be honest here - 
Just want to again say - I am not putting down anyone working in a  walmart optical  -  I am sure the staff is great - and they build great relationships with their customers - but lets just say these folks are not out looking for anything on the  higher end  in reguards to products - 

I AM SURE they will tell you this themselves if asked

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## NavyChief

> I have had numerous pts come in to us - because they state that when they - lets say - ask for Varilux and a design by name - because they currently wear them - they either get a run around - or sometimes - they are told that they are getting say a panamic or physio - and they walk out with a essilor natural - or ziess lens ? 
> b


We have the Varilux, but in plastic.  I'm sure they could get that, but with Rx limitations etc. sometimes that isn't the best for the patient. Whether they want it or not.

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## bt5050

> We have the Varilux, but in plastic.  I'm sure they could get that, but with Rx limitations etc. sometimes that isn't the best for the patient. Whether they want it or not.


WHAT KIND OF RX limitations are you referring to - ? 

as for the the statement that says - that is nto the best thing for the best - 

i posed this - as current wearers going in askign for it by name - 
therefore there is real no justfication to change the pt - and have the believe they are getting something they are not -

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## geoflem

i think one problem people might be having is a communication problem in terms of what we have on our product board and what lens we are capable of getting. product board pals are the sola max for 210.00, and zeiss and nikon pals. as well and the high end nikon made by essilor. varilux plastic and high index are also available in the software. if the optician hasn't taken the incentive to know all the lenses / well thats unfortunate / as far as someone paying for a varilux and getting something else highly improbable.  i could see a situation where someone maybe thinks that the comfort perhaps is maybe the same or relative to the sola and made the person feel he/or she was getting a lense like the varilux comfort. you can lead a horse to water but getting him/or her to drink is another story. most of the licenses i work with and meet here in nevada take the profession somewhat seriously/ but companys like wal-mart,sams,costco,lens crafters can really dumb a optician down with the repetive work and not challenging rx's. so knowing that its really up to opticians to stay up on the lenses and math,technology .

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## geoflem

Dan like i told you in a past thread the type of optician you get and how informed they are depends on the state your in an of course pride,knowledge, and general professionalism the individual takes in his job. i have gone to many  shops in nevada checking out the type of personel they have and compentency , i don't know about texas but i can say we are going to rectify that nationally within the next 5 years. whether or not the state is licensed or not you will have a certain amout of time to gain your abo and ncle/ that will stop some people from thinking that working in optical is a easy job. but if i ever ran into you an asked you a ? you might not know at the time / i promise i won't call you a bottom of the barrell scumbag optician.

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## DallasLabTech

I had the exciting pleasure of touring the Wal-Mart optical lab here in Dallas a few weeks ago--very interesting facility.  Enough robotics to run a car factory--you wouldn't believe how amazing their facility is.  Interesting tidbit  the general manager there said (a man who knows nothing about optics--has been a store manager, district manager and several other "managers") he said that it costs them on the average of approximately $58.00 to produce any pair of glasses.  They produce over 6200 pairs of glasses a day.  They have 3 labs here in America--one here in Dallas, one in Arkansas, and one in Ohio somewhere.  They offered us jobs, but I decided that I wouldn't get the training and experience that I would like to have at wal-mart.  All they do is teach you how to push a button on a machine--they don't teach you any of the background of the optical world.  

Anyway--just though I would share that with you other optiboarders

:bbg:

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## Chris Ryser

> *I had the exciting pleasure of touring the Wal-Mart optical lab here in Dallas a few weeks ago--very interesting facility. Enough robotics to run a car factory--you wouldn't believe how amazing their facility is.*


This seems to be the way we are going until the whole industry goes robotics right down to the retail end. By that time you will need no more qualifications than being able to adjust a frame.   :finger:

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## geoflem

Remember when everyone thought that computers would take over mans jobs in all facets of society/ an slowly eliminate us from most jobs. / well that did happen somewhat. I'm just happy to see we aren't making lenses in mexico or china large scale. I envision a scenario where a patient walks into an od's office fills out personal info on a screen- takes a number /when called sits in a chair / looks into a device that refracts and determines the eyes condition. Then an od looks at the info to double check it. patient has paid and goes to a dispensary where one person presides over  frame boards. Patient sits at a pc , after choosing a frame inserts personal data from the doctor including rx/ looks into a pd machine and chooses his or her lenses from a list of recommendations the pc determined you needed. BOOM YOUR OUT THE DOOR WITH A DATE TO COME AND PICK UP YOUR NEW GLASSES. :cry:

----------


## wombat

Has anyone been to Japan?  I think I saw the future there: plenty of stores offering glasses starting at $50, including autorefraction.   "Express Glass" at Narita airport, terminal 1, was naturally more expensive, around $84 or $126, for an autorefraction, glasses, and case. Time: 20 minutes
http://www.narita-airport.jp/en/guid...5_express.html
The frames were hip and colourful, not like the "basic" frames that Walmart offers at the lowest price point.

I suspect there's more than a couple of women out there who'd buy an new pair every other week if they were as cheap, colourful and easy to buy as shoes.   Sooner or later someone will bring stores like this to North America.

And there is an optical store in Akiba that is staffed by women in maid costumes:   
http://www.akibaangels.com/articles/...6/candyopt.php 
http://www.canful-megane.com/ 
http://blog.livedoor.jp/moe_megane/
This is not a concept I expect to see in my local mall any time soon.

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## Chris Ryser

> *.......... would be willing to bet that in ten years or less there will be no optical in Wal-mart.*


By looking at the generaity of post's on the Optiboard I have found a tendency that there is a general mood  to sell the successfully the most advanced  and expensive items on the market.

This does not seem the right attitude in a weak and getting weaker economy were poeple are loosing their houses and jobs by the millions.

WalMart is geared to serve these people who want to purchase at better prices. Therefore the prognostics are that WalMart will do even better over the next few years, specially in an area where otherwise high prices dominate. Look up the post's on the "Forum for Professionals only".

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## KStraker

The geniuses at my local Wm just told a lady that they could not remake just the right lens in her drill mount. They can only do them as pairs. I quoted her a price on the one lens, which we all no is easily replaced. It seems that a friend is responsible for the scratches on her lens. The friend has already called WM and purchased a completely new chassis and lenses. Even though the patient will save siginificantly by cancelling this pair at WM and getting the one lens from us, she won't do it. What an idiot. I concluded by reiterating, "so you are going to buy another whole pair of glasses that you are dissatisfied with and cost you more, rather than replacing this one lens? I would cancell that order if I were you." A fool and their money are soon parted. There are a lot of fools out there. I guess this lady lacks the courage to stand up for herself. Oh yeah, her glasses are only 8 months or so old.

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## MarcE

> By looking at the generaity of post's on the Optiboard I have found a tendency that there is a general mood to sell the successfully the most advanced and expensive items on the market.
> 
> This does not seem the right attitude in a weak and getting weaker economy were poeple are loosing their houses and jobs by the millions.
> 
> WalMart is geared to serve these people who want to purchase at better prices. Therefore the prognostics are that WalMart will do even better over the next few years, specially in an area where otherwise high prices dominate. Look up the post's on the "Forum for Professionals only".


You keep saying that our weak and getting weaker economy is driving people to look for low prices and value.  I don't see that in my experience.  Economists don't see it.  Market analysts don't see it, and business owners don't see it.  Every quarter has companies reporting record profits (including Lexus).  Every city I travel to has just built and is building another new high-end, full of name-brands, shopping center.  In the US, we now eat 51% of our meals out of the home, and that stat has been growing.  Gasoline has been over $2.00/gal for over 3 yrs now and yet SUV sales are strong as are $2000 flat-panel TVs.
In fact, Wal-mart sees their growth areas in high-end products.  Such as the $2000 TVs and "high-definition" optical lenses.  They are also opening upscale grocery stores to offer overpriced organic produce, boutique foods, locally produced items, as well as live lobster, and other imported luxury foods.

Wal-mart will do better in optical over the next few years, and this is why.  They will be selling higher-end products at a higher price with a very low COGS.

The problem with doomsday economists like you is that when a recession finally does come along (and one always does), you can say "See, I've been trying to tell you guys for the last ten years".  Meanwhile you missed the entire bear market being a poopy-head.

These are the best economic times that we have ever seen in the United States.  I believe that the same is true for Canada.  These are the good ol days.

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## Chris Ryser

> *The problem with doomsday economists like you is that when a recession finally does come along (and one always does), you can say "See, I've been trying to tell you guys for the last ten years". Meanwhile you missed the entire bear market being a poopy-head.*
> 
> *These are the best economic times that we have ever seen in the United States. I believe that the same is true for Canada. These are the good ol days.*


 
*Why is the national debt out of control?*

With the federal government beginning a new fiscal year Monday, the national debt now stands at about $8.5 trillion  or about $540 billion bigger than it was a year ago............................

As of Thursday, the total national debt outstanding stood at nearly $8.5 trillion  or $8,487,096,306,559.55 to be exact. In August, Uncle Sams minimum monthly payment  just the interest on that debt  came to $24 billion. Interest payments alone are now about $400 billion a year, or about about 18 cents of every one of your tax dollars.

See whole article at............http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15064460/


 
http://www.creditcardnation.com/ 
May 25, 2007 -- Dr. Manning interviewed on the CBS Evening News. 


SUMMARY PAGE
*America's Total Debt Report* 
*$ 48 Trillion - - and soaring*
_- household, business, financial and government sectors -_
by *Michael Hodges - email*
updated March 2007 
*America has become more a debt 'junkie'* - - *than ever before* 
*with total debt of $48 Trillion - - and the highest debt ratio in history.*
*That's $161,287 per man, woman and child - - or $645,148 per family of 4,*
*$45,514 more debt per family than last year.*
*Last year total debt increased $3.9 Trillion, 5 times more than GDP.*
*External debt owed foreign interests increased $1 Trillion;*
*Household, business and financial sector debt soared 9%.*
*72% ($35 trillion) of total debt was created since 1990,*
*a period primarily driven by debt instead of by productive activity.*
*And, the above does not include un-funded pensions and medical promises.* 
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/nat-debt/debt-nat.htm

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## Chris Ryser

There have been responses........just a lot of lookers......so I brought it up again. I would like to see some comments on how well we are all doing.

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## RA

My wife and I are doing fine. I manage 2 opticals fro MD's., My wife has a good job, no kids(that helps). Bought my house as a foreclosure in 99 for 77 (seriously) at 5.9. We put on an addition , we have a great yard, etc. no complaints here. 
But then again I was raised by Europeans( slightly different outlook on the whole buying-something-when-you-don't-really-have-the-money-thing.

And yes, I fit a ton of our pt.'s w/ cr-39. And we don't treat the elderly like lepers. 

:)

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## Johns

> Interesting tidbit the general manager there said (a man who knows nothing about optics--has been a store manager, district manager and several other "managers") he said that it costs them on the average of approximately $58.00 to produce any pair of glasses. 
> :bbg:


A man who knows nothing about optics, the general mgr of the lab?

Interesting? Maybe...

Surprising?  Not a bit...

It almost seems like a prerequisite.

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## Alan W

To quote the Geico caveman . . . .
"uhhhh....what?"
Don't know about where you live, but here where I live in Texas there's a whole lot of moolah gettin thrown around. Sure, there's a WallyWorld on every corner. So? That dosen't mean we all have to hide our better stuff. High end retailers, glasses and anything else, don't exactly sell anything they've got by the tons. They cater to and sell to a smaller, qualified, market in smaller quantities. They've been around for years and won't dissapear just because of Wally. If they don't make enough money, they'll have to sell more colors of fur-lined frames!

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## Johns

> To quote the Geico caveman . . . .
> "uhhhh....what?"
> Don't know about where you live, but here where I live in Texas there's a whole lot of moolah gettin thrown around.


Where I live, there's hardly any money being thrown around, but ironically, we just had another record month.  People don;t seem to be buying as often, but they are buying higher ticket.  And this is in an area that is being called "depressed".

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## AngryFish

MarcE has a valid point, Wal-Mart does have the ability to change the market, I personally don't believe they have a reasonable chance at high end though because this pre-supposes quality, and that is something Wal-Mart can not afford to associate itself with. The consumer does not equate quality with Wal-Mart. This, I believe, was demonstrated by their failure to shift toward higher-end goods during their recent "I want to be like Target" campaign. It was an abject failure. And I feel that the infastructure required to support a quality product, the very mindset, is so far removed from Wal-Mart's ability to comprehend that it is nearly inconceivable to imagine anyone looking to spend five hundred or a thousand or more dollars on a pair of glasses at Wal-Mart. Besides the company is far too focused on screwing their labor force as a way to generate profit.

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## MarcE

Maybe Wal-mart didn't get it right the first time, but I don't believe that they will fail.  They now sell the retail version of the Physio 360 (20% wider field of vision, optimized for you Rx, they say), w/ Alize.  Wal-Mart just remodeled their local optical and it looks modern, clean and nice.  They now have more frames and with a higher average price.  A lady came in today with a $400 quote for one of these high-end progressives from WM.  6 months ago they didn't have anything that expensive on their menu.  New optical that looks a lot like a nice LensCrafters right next to the plasma screen TVs.

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## Chris Ryser

> *Maybe Wal-mart didn't get it right the first time, but I don't believe that they will fail.*


Right..................people with all the resources they have are learning fast.

To be known as inexpensive, but have the ability to also provide high end products will put them into an advantagous position.

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## AngryFish

I disagree. Wal-Mart has been meeting its self defined limitations for some time now. There is an old adage to the affect that you can't have the best quality and the cheapest price. The best people will not accept the lowest wages so you wont be seeing their highly skilled work at a super discount. And the people who are spending five hundred to one thousand or more dollars on their glasses are not going to accept poor quality. Additionally if Wal-Mart were to begin to properly pay to attract the highly skilled work force they would need they would be saying their other philosophy, control costs with pay and benefits, is incompatible with the new business model needed for this higher end approach, one they have been operating under for decades and they would coincidentally need to maintain theses two diametrically apposed philosophies throughout the rest of their operation, talk about conflict.

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## loratz

Always remember,your going to buy glasses at the same place you buy your tires? :Rolleyes:

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## ShuString

> Anyone who works there know about a story floating around, that there will be no more walmart optical managers, they will hire licenses, and then walmart will hire a manager, who will wear many hats, he or she will be the manager of optical, photo, hair salon, etc, etc


*the worst 5 year optical experience of my 26 year career as an optician oh and manager.glad its the past now.*

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## Chris Ryser

> *Always remember,your going to buy glasses at the same place you buy your tires?*


Then you would have to use the same thinking process when you buy cherries and peaches two isles away from the chicken liver in a super market.

*The food supply industries has done away with Ma and Pa butchers..........bakeries............veggie and fruitstores.............milk and cheese stores............kitchen utensils and ceramic stores, ............coffee shops that mix and roast and grind  their own coffee*

*Next time you go through your favorite Supermarket, think about how many specialty businesses had to close because of these corporate owned and run super stores.*

This happened 40-50 years ago and the sentiments of people at that time where not any different, than what I see on this thread complaining about WalMart  or Costco and other big outfits. WalMart will streamline their specialty departments, 

Costco already has done so and has become the best employer in the USA optical retail business.

Optical Corporations are selling their prime products under other names at a fraction of the official price to these companies

The only way to save an independent optical skin from going the same route as the milkman and the butcher took 50 years ago, is by changing the mode of service in their stores, offer visibly competitive deals to counter  the threat of becoming distinct in the very near future.

One competitive advantage of a smart optical retailer is to push service, use your small lab in the back become 
your service center, Do little jobs from repairs to tinting and more, right there while customer waits, and you will soon gain a reputation of a service oriented business.


...............................................

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## AngryFish

Costco has a fundamentally different philosophy on how to run a business. The CEO of Costco has an annual salary of around $350,000; whereas Wal-Marts CEO Lee Scott made $29,000,000+ last year (over $23,676 per hour!). Wal-Mart does not generate a profit normalized to the sales volume/profits/locations/revenue per square foot etc. of Costco. Lee Scott is paid, if I remember correctly, nearly 1000 times the average workers wages; while the CEO of Costco is caped at a fraction of that. Costco pays ALL of their employees on average over three times what Wal-Mart pays it's "associates." There is no conflict in Costcos business model - they simply pay ALL of their employees well. So if becoming the best place to work as an optician is a cause, then the effect is better quality and service (read that as productivity and profits) for Costco.  Wal-Mart has publicly stated and, as evidenced by their aggressive anti-collective bargaining efforts, lives to fight to the death any change to the way they pay their associates. 

Besides all of that wholesale clubs are targeted to households with over $100,000 in annual income; whereas Wal-Marts demographics are on the polar opposite end of the scale by NECESSITY that IS their market.

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## Chris Ryser

> *Besides all of that wholesale clubs are targeted to households with over $100,000 in annual income; whereas Wal-Marts demographics are on the polar opposite end of the scale by NECESSITY that IS their market.*


Nice post.................Now we know that Costco is rated best and WalMart gets the "Necessity market". and then you have the over 5000 Luxottica controlled outlets............so what are you going to do to attract customers ??????????

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## gratiousone

I am a vision center manager and I can assure you I do not run the hair salon the nail salon, or any other part of walmart I have my own division, and that is where my work is done. I dont know who starts such incompetant rumors but I wouldn't fall into there traps... You have a nice day..:)

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## SarahMP584

All I know is that I make FIVE DOLLARS AN HOUR MORE at costco than I did at walmart and our stuff costs less and is better..... :Confused:

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## sharon m./ aboc

If you think they pay their employees well..... you'd die if you knew what they paid their managers! It's more than you would make at a dr.s office, or Sears, or Target, or Pearle, or Lens Crafters, or Sams Club. I used to work at Sam's (in optical) and they make you sign forms that say you'd never sign a petition to form a union.  The scariest thing was the giant picture of the late Sam Walton....like he was a god or something.   Personally,  I think he was a smart and fine man and Wal Mart has just deteriorated since his death.

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## bt5050

QUOTE _ ""  I used to work at Sam's (in optical) and they make you sign forms that say you'd never sign a petition to form a union."""

many large - ( usually retailer i have seen ) - have these agreements - 
it is to bad - that these opticians in the large retail stores can not get a union going - with in some states - 

It would even out the playing field - and make it so they can not take advantage of their employee-s 

I saw somewhere ( maybe Canada ? ) - they have a huge union for LO_ OPTICIANS - however i am not sure how well they operate and what the impact is - but i am sure it is positive - 

***you'd die if you knew what they paid their managers! It's more than you would make at a dr.s office, or Sears, or Target, or Pearle, or Lens Crafters, or Sams Club.** 

i have worked in many locations as mgr - and i have found that sometimes - ( usually ) - the headaches are not worth the $ - esp the hours - if you have no one to work - or the BS - that floats down from the top - 
for me - being a LO- is plenty - and they can keep the extra $$ - my time  with my family and my STRESS LEVEL  is so much more important then making a little extra $ - it is so clear - from workign in the BIG CORPS - to the mom and pop shops - the quality of the work is so much better in the smaller shops - 
although i wil say benifits - ( which are VERY important to me )- do usually fall short in some smaller places -  but there are 1's out there if you shop around - that are = to the big company's - 

1 other thing - the job secrurity - on one hand in larger company's - you need to always worry about them going under - but on the other hand - depending on their focus areas - if you have issues meeting THIER expectations ( u just have to learn how to play their game - and not ROCK THE BOAT  - or  usually u can kiss your job good bye 
B

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## For-Life

Wal-Mart has closed down stores that are unionized.

I blame the population.  If you compete with Wal-Mart then you should not buy from it.  If as a union employee, you believe in supporting other unions, and then you should not be buying from Wal-Mart.  If you are a female who believes that women should not get paid under minimum wage, and then you should not be buying from Wal-Mart.

Not for a television, not for a t-shirt, not for a pair of socks.  Not one cent.  That would send a message.

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## ShuString

Sad too say Gratiousone, When I was a vision center manager , I had issues with the store manager trying to force me too stock the candy shelves, and no, I didn't start this thread....I can feel your gun hoe attitude as I'm running away from your Walmart Cheer,

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## SarahMP584

Yeah, the amazing pay is just about the only reason I work at costco.  I hate retail. I really miss my docs but I am actually making twice as much. I will get a sunday off one day! (Oh we get time and a half on sundays...)

Oh and when I was at wal mart there was many a time where if we were dead they would have our manager send one of us out to do "go backs" and once I even had to be a door greeter, Lab Coat and all. 
I got a lot of funny looks that day.

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## Johns

> I will get a sunday off one day! (Oh we get time and a half on sundays...)
> 
> Oh and when I was at wal mart there was many a time where if we were dead they would have our manager send one of us out to do "go backs" and once I even had to be a door greeter, Lab Coat and all. 
> I got a lot of funny looks that day.


 
Yeah, our local WM had one of the opticians collecting carts in the parking lot last week.  He told one of my employees that he'd rather be chasing carts than sitting in the optical ! 

(This is the part where the WM Optical mgr will post again saying that everyone is lying, and you never leave the optical dept to work other depts...)

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## gratiousone

I am a wal-mart vision center manager, I know my product, what is best for my patients, i'm not just there for the bottom line. Some of us V.C manager do know what we are doing and do care about getting our patients into something that they are going to be happy with. If they find that they are not happy with something that has been picked out we have a 60 day satisfaction guaranteed warranty. So if that isn't long enough to tell if your glasses are correct or adjusted right or just not right for you then I dont know what is.

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## SarahMP584

They pulled my old manager from the tire shop. 
Whereas he was a wonderful boss and he is still a great friend of mine, he knew next to nothing about optical. He ordered a slab off on a -10.00 sv lens because he thought it would be thinner! 
The sad part is, our lab went ahead and made it and didnt bother to call and say "Hey, this is a sv lens, are you SURE you want this slab off??" I didnt know about it until I inspected the jobs when they came in. Another sad part about it is that he had called the manager at one of our other stores to ask if a slab off in fact did make a lens thinner, and she said yes! SHE HAS HER ABO! it took her FIVE times to pass it, but she has it....:angry:
Man do I have stories..........

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## gratiousone

no this isn't the part where the v.c mgrs say they never leave the department. it's the part where i say if division 1 was all it should be this shouldn't and wouldn't happen.

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## Johns

> no this isn't the part where the v.c mgrs say they never leave the department. it's the part where i say if division 1 was all it should be this shouldn't and wouldn't happen.


I don't understand this terminology.  What's "division 1"?

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## OPTIDONN

> no this isn't the part where the v.c mgrs say they never leave the department. it's the part where i say if division 1 was all it should be this shouldn't and wouldn't happen.


You know I don't want to be a jerk but how long have you been in optical? From two posts you made regarding job openings you seem to have confused opticians with optometrists. Do you know the difference? Sorry, not trying to be a jerk just curious.

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## AngryFish

Division One is the body of retail departments of a Wal-Mart store. It consists of pretty much everything except things like Grocery, Optical, Photo, Pharmacy, TLE, and other ancillary departments.

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## Johns

> Division One is the body of retail departments of a Wal-Mart store. It consists of pretty much everything except things like Grocery, Optical, Photo, Pharmacy, TLE, and other ancillary departments.


 
Thanks, I haven't been in a WM in over 8 years, and am not versed in the WM jargon.

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## partyoptician

The BIG question is this.  Who will buy Who? Maybe THe Mart is the only business big enough to take out Luxottica> Can you say corporate take over!  It sure would be fun to watch!:bbg:

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## Danimal2

> Dan like i told you in a past thread the type of optician you get and how informed they are depends on the state your in an of course pride,knowledge, and general professionalism the individual takes in his job. i have gone to many shops in nevada checking out the type of personel they have and compentency , i don't know about texas but i can say we are going to rectify that nationally within the next 5 years. whether or not the state is licensed or not you will have a certain amout of time to gain your abo and ncle/ that will stop some people from thinking that working in optical is a easy job. but if i ever ran into you an asked you a ? you might not know at the time / i promise i won't call you a bottom of the barrell scumbag optician.


Thanks Geo for not wishing to call me a "bottom of the barrel scumbag optician".  As we all do faulter on ?'s from time to time.  Resultant Prism has always been interesting to me as there are a few Docs that like to prescribe that way.  The first time I was handed an RX with that, I was dumb founded.  It had been years since I had worked with an RX like that.  Well time being what it is, I called numerous doctors in the area to get their input and that resulted in numerous translations.  I did the math and could not come up with the right answer.  I knew what I was looking for, but nothing seemed to be working out.  I called a Doctor at the University of Houston (yes he wrote the book) and he was so very helpful.  He walked me through everything.  I told him that is exactly what I plugged into my calculator.  He said "Really".  I said "Yes".  He then informed me that I needed to change my calculator settings back to decimal instead of Radians.  Ha...Ha..:cheers:

----------


## KStraker

I did not help this patient so I don't know why she chose to do this, but: This patient comes in and has an exam. We are providers for her insurance with coverage for exam and glasses. She had the exam, but wound up walking with the Rx. She strolled on down to Walmart and bought a pair. Her Rx is roughly +.50 -.50 +2.00 OU. She came back yesterday and said she is having trouble in the distance. I read the glasses and they are about a .18 strong on the distance power. She wound up with a Natural Poly Transitions with AR fit at 18mm. First of all I've never had much luck with a Natural under about 21mm. Second, this patient did not ask for poly or AR and doesn't need or want it. Now she is thinking that she would also like to do away with the transitions. Oh yeah, the left seg is off axis by about 20 degrees. Luckily it's a no line bifocal. :hammer:If she had gotten the lenses here, she would have spent 115.00 for a clear cr39 Natural and gotten them in an hour. I bet she spent more at Walmart, waited 2 weeks, and still doesn't have a working pair of glasses. She also does not know what her poly lens and AR coat are good for. Conclusion: a fool and her money are soon parted. I wish I could shaft people and some how convince them that I'm doing them a favor.

----------


## Happylady

> Oh yeah, the left seg is off axis by about 20 degrees. Luckily it's a no line bifocal. :hammer:If she had gotten the lenses here, she would have spent 115.00 for a clShe also does not know what her poly lens and AR coat are good for.


That 20 degree off is too much and should be redone. The AR is really a good thing but I don't know how good a quality AR she has. A bad AR is not a good thing. 

The Wallmart near me used to use the Natural and tell people they were getting a Varilux lens. I agree that a Natural at 18 is too low. I know they say it can be fit that low, but I remember when it was recommended to be fit at 24. I think it is best fit at at least 20.

----------


## For-Life

> I did not help this patient so I don't know why she chose to do this, but: This patient comes in and has an exam. We are providers for her insurance with coverage for exam and glasses. She had the exam, but wound up walking with the Rx. She strolled on down to Walmart and bought a pair. Her Rx is roughly +.50 -.50 +2.00 OU. She came back yesterday and said she is having trouble in the distance. I read the glasses and they are about a .18 strong on the distance power. She wound up with a Natural Poly Transitions with AR fit at 18mm. First of all I've never had much luck with a Natural under about 21mm. Second, this patient did not ask for poly or AR and doesn't need or want it. Now she is thinking that she would also like to do away with the transitions. Oh yeah, the left seg is off axis by about 20 degrees. Luckily it's a no line bifocal. :hammer:If she had gotten the lenses here, she would have spent 115.00 for a clear cr39 Natural and gotten them in an hour. I bet she spent more at Walmart, waited 2 weeks, and still doesn't have a working pair of glasses. She also does not know what her poly lens and AR coat are good for. Conclusion: a fool and her money are soon parted. I wish I could shaft people and some how convince them that I'm doing them a favor.


Worst thing is she will probably blame the AR or PAL.  Not the fitter.

----------


## Danimal2

> Her Rx is roughly +.50 -.50 +2.00 OU. She came back yesterday and said she is having trouble in the distance. I read the glasses and they are about a .18 strong on the distance power. She wound up with a Natural Poly Transitions with AR fit at 18mm. First of all I've never had much luck with a Natural under about 21mm. Second, this patient did not ask for poly or AR and doesn't need or want it.


Wow, roughly +.50-.50 X??? +2.00 OU. How does one define "roughly". Ansi Standards are there to help all. Having a .18 increase or decrease on a +.50 -.50 would really tell me the glasses, lensometer, optician, or something was really totally out of whack (get real). Then you say she came in with problems at distance and you state that the seg was set to low. I did not hear anything about issues with reading. Although I would agree that a Natural at 18mm would not be functional in most cases. Probably not that noticable in this one (not to justify a wrong). 

I hear others always stating that Wally world is sub standard. Now I am sure there are issues from place to place. It is not the company or the product, but the individuals that work in some of the places whether corp. or private.

Treat the patient with Great Customer Service and share your knowledge and the RX would not have walked. Do the same on the patient if they did walk back in and they will get a refund at Wally World and come back to you. Trash your competitors to the patient and if the patient is of any moral fortitued (sorry drinking :cheers: so spelling maybe off. New keyboard as well.) they will not be back.

Just my two cents.

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## Fezz

> (sorry drinking :cheers: so spelling maybe off. New keyboard as well.) 
> Just my two cents.



:D:cheers::D:cheers::D

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## KStraker

> Wow, roughly +.50-.50 X??? +2.00 OU. How does one define "roughly". Ansi Standards are there to help all. Having a .18 increase or decrease on a +.50 -.50 would really tell me the glasses, lensometer, optician, or something was really totally out of whack (get real). Then you say she came in with problems at distance and you state that the seg was set to low. I did not hear anything about issues with reading. Although I would agree that a Natural at 18mm would not be functional in most cases. Probably not that noticable in this one (not to justify a wrong). 
> 
> I hear others always stating that Wally world is sub standard. Now I am sure there are issues from place to place. It is not the company or the product, but the individuals that work in some of the places whether corp. or private.
> 
> Treat the patient with Great Customer Service and share your knowledge and the RX would not have walked. Do the same on the patient if they did walk back in and they will get a refund at Wally World and come back to you. Trash your competitors to the patient and if the patient is of any moral fortitued (sorry drinking :cheers: so spelling maybe off. New keyboard as well.) they will not be back.
> 
> Just my two cents.


Roughly= she has a moderate presciption and I don't feel like going to get her record to get the exact numbers. This is a post on the interweb, not a page from a doctoral thesis. I did not trash Wallyworld. I simply told her that there was little too much plus and the bifocal was crooked. Morality does not some in to play with Walmart shoppers, just a super low price, or the illusion of a sweet deal. If they did have such lofty morals they probably wouldn't be there in the first place. As far as something being out of whack here it is: it's called not giving a sh!t. Who wants to send a job back for a remake, take another week and a half, and listen to the patient complain. Sounds like the old, here try these and hope for the best routine.  I should have found a way to inform her about what was best for her needs without knocking the service she had at Walmart. If I had helped her to begin with I would have just spelled it out: Here's what is best for you, here's the cost after your insurance benefit, and yes we are the only provider in this area, but if you still want to take your Rx somewhere else and pay more then here you go. She'll be back.

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## patti

I actually work for the often dreaded Wal-mart corporation , and Personally in 30 years in the optical buisness I have never worked anywhere that understood that patient care and education was first and formost as much as in this organization. In addition they live up to their open door policy and pay top dollar. I have worked in private practice with OD's and MD'S, I have worked for small boutiqes, small Doctor owned chains, Mid sized chains and Large companys such as LensCrafters, but I promise you (and no one is paying me to say this), so far the Wal-Mart organization has been the best. they just seem to understand that the reason we do this type of work, besides the income, is to help people have a better quality of vision. I have found that most opticains just want to help people.In addition I have access to significantly better technology than I did when I was with LC.
 Also I can assure you that there is no intention to eliminate Optical managers and there is no organized plan to hire non- optical staff to manage. In fact in general it is prefered to hire optically trained managers, but as it has been noted in this conversation, the trained Opticians are often not trained in management or think they are such a hot commodity that they demand a salary that will break the bank. In those cases a non- optically trained management oriented person would still be a viable choice.
 Just voicing my opinion

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## Danimal2

Tell them like it is Patti.  Good to hear from a fellow (sorry female) associate.  Although I would have to question your comment on the latest tech being at our disposal.  As now most of us in the Vision Centers have lost our finishing labs and we are no longer have the ability to say that we atleast cut the lenses (thus allowing for any further modifications based on RX and frame choice that may need to be made)for the glasses that we sell.  Although the markdown issue has been much better as far as the training side of things goes.

I too agree that My Wal-Mart Experience has be more than great.  Good Pay, Good Bennies, sometimes really strange hours (happy holidays).

Take care

Danimal

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## MarcE

> I actually work for the often dreaded Wal-mart corporation , and Personally in 30 years in the optical buisness I have never worked anywhere that understood that patient care and education was first and formost as much as in this organization. , 
> but I promise you (and no one is paying me to say this), so far the Wal-Mart organization has been the best.


Amazing.  Our local W-M can't get a SV stock lens edged in less than 5 days.  They can't find a replacement sun clip or a temple for the frame they sold just 4 months ago.  They don't have access to 1.70 or trivex.  They won't touch a previously used drill mount frame.  No shape modification on lenses.  They won't go outside a +- 4.00 on most any sunglass.  I've seen personally dozens of Ovations and Naturals fit at 15 and 16 high.  If the patient doesn't want AR, they don't seem to be able to help.  Patient is intolerant to poly? Again they don't seem to understand.

I'm really not a W-M basher.  I have copied many of their smart business tactics.  But a quality optical store?  Not my experience. Not the experience of half the W-M associates that leave their discount on the table and come see me.

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## Johns

> I'm really not a W-M basher. I have copied many of their smart business tactics. But a quality optical store? Not my experience. Not the experience of half the W-M associates that leave their discount on the table and come see me.


Discount on the table?!?  We advertise that we take the WM Vision Plan at our store (It only exists at our store!)  The employees pay a "co-pay" of $49 for SV lenses, and a "co-pay" of 25% discount on their frames.  They're amazed that their Vision Center doesn't take the insurance they didn't even know they had!

If I ever figure out how to post photos here, I'll post a picture of the wall of our lab.  It's got about 35 photo copied WM employee badges that we make copies of. (For "insurance" purposes, of course.)  Oh, and these badges include 3 of the people that work, or have worked in the WM Vision Center.


Disclaimer:  I am a WM basher, but I've got nothing against their employees.

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## Alan W

This thread seems to linger on and on. Not that I disagree with any of it. I really see some keen observations here. I'd like to contribute mine as having once been a WMVC manager, I might have stuck around had the District Manager been evaporated from the face of the earth for incompetency. But, that's another story. Ultimately, she quit under fire! What I do see here is that there are contributions of thought coming from different points of reference, hence the paradigm conflict. WM has accomplished its goal. It is the Jiffy Lube of opticianry. It has a narrow scope of service that is done as well as the available labor force provides. Up against true craftspeople, the conflict ensues. WM doesn't deny that true craftspeople exist. They just don't want their customers to think there's a "higher order." In my ancient way of thinking, I believe that true craftspeople are too preoccupied defending their quality of service and  end-product *perception*. Having been the owner of a couple very high end stores where I practiced opticianry as a craftsman, my thinking is that the success I enjoyed was from taking the same product "they" sold, and making it just part of a superior *perceived end product* on the equivelent level of "Lexus Certified *Service*!" If you *consistently*, from customer to customer, do that . . . your "thumbprint" will be ackowledged. Just don't expect all the big cash rewards. It ain't gonna happen! Rembrandt, and almost all the other masters . . . . died poor. . . . or chewed off a body part!

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## kgh77

Walmart just rescently closed 23 (I believe) vision centers, I was in one of them.  They say that would be the only time they would do this, yeah right! The DM will not be getting a bonus in 2008 so I think that the assistant managers will eventually take over where the DM's are now.  The DM are worthless, they don't increase sales, or morale, or find opticians to hire.  They have their weekly conference call ***** about sales and make sure the pretty pictures are up and thats it!!  they know nothing about selling or what makes an optical run! No I'm not bitter, I just got to see it in action.  What a waste.

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## Johns

> WM has accomplished its goal. It is the Jiffy Lube of opticianry. It has a narrow scope of service that is done as well as the available labor force provides.


 
Hmm...Jiffy Lube of opticianry?

Yeah, I'd buy that comparison. :Rolleyes: 

-Good for only the most basic of services.
-People that care about their cars and can afford it, use full service mechanics.
-Stories abound about blown engines when the oil plug has been left out.
-Service in 10 minutes or less. (Must be the exam..def. not the glasses)
-Employees wear shop-type uniforms.

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## Johns

> Personally in 30 years in the optical buisness I have never worked anywhere that understood that patient care and education was first and formost as much as in this organization.


Wow...

I can't imagine how much lower the level of service could go if their "priorities" weren't so high! :Rolleyes:

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