# Conversation and Fun > Just Conversation >  Which Lens?

## Justaddwater

I purchased some Kawasaki 705 Frames after noticing Sarah Palins glasses. Something you don't see at a Eyemasters or Lenscrafters. I went for the Hoya 1.7 HiVis. I was told that with 1 eye at +1.50 and 1 eye at +4.50 that to reach the thinnest lens and balance of both that I would have to go with the Varilux Physio 1.67 lenses. Now after going through an online Glassetc for progressive, what do you think about the 1.67. I've never paid over $700 for glasses in my life. Tax title and shipping included.

Justaddwater from IKE torn Baytown, TX

Excuse me for posting down here, but as a newbie I haven't got the right to post above and need to call these people if you may have some thoughts.

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## For-Life

you will not be able to see with glasses purchased online.  They do not measure or incorporate the optical height of the lens.  If that centre is not positioned in the most perfect place, you will get severe distortion.  A correctly fit cheap lens will provide you far better vision than an incorrectly most expensive lens on the market.  They do not want to tell you this, because they do not make their business off of repeat sales.  They also will not warranty if you cannot see (which most eye care professionals will do), because if you give them wrong measurements, it is your fault.  

Go see an optician and get it done the right way.

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## Justaddwater

I only make that much in a week or more. I just wanted to look good and be different from the joe plumbers as they say. They have been real nice online and phone and do have my PD measurements and script. I can't afford to be disapointed. What should I do since I have already paid if you right.

I tried to go to a respectable dealer and the price was over $1000's

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## Justaddwater

Why could I not see with a script?

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## Justaddwater

BTW, I did go to the Italee site, Kawasaki and pick the lens shape and they said it will work in progressive.

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## Justaddwater

I also measured ever possible PD, lens tall and wide and sent a picture of me wearing them. don't scare me if your a novice optic wanna be.  If you do have creditability help fix a problem on a forum that helps people with optic issues.

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## LilKim

But that's just the crux of the problem...your bypassing an optometrist and "doing it yourself", is why our industry is losing so much money.  Simply measuring your PD with a ruler and sending Kawasaki a copy of your Rx is not going to guarantee that you'll be able to see properly out of those lenses.

As for the matter of price...this will be a product that you will be wearing on your face EVERY DAY for at least a couple of years.  How important are your eyes to you?  How long do you expect to have to wear glasses?  The rest of your life?  With that kind of scrip, you can bet on it.  Invest in a quality pair, go through your optometrist, not an online sales rep.  Your DOCTOR will know what's best for you.  There's a reason why they have degrees hanging on the walls in their offices.  He or she will know what kind of material and progressive type would work best for you (there are HUNDREDS available, some better than most, many tailored for certain vision issues).

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## Justaddwater

I guess because this isn't candy mountain. This is a  question I couldn't get up top to the more forgiving with knowledge. We did more than measure boob size. So you ask why should you help me? I thought that I could find a real lingo answer rather than nothing but negativity. I'm in a fix pal with the replies and need someone with experience. I would rather you go back to the teen site than ask me why should WWWWWEEEEEE, like your someone else tha Joe the Plumber.

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## Justaddwater

I understand you tech's don't make any money, but that's not my problem greenie

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## MarcE

If you buy parts from the auto parts store, don't ask a mechanic how to install them.  It's rude.  Mechanics make about $60/hr for their expertise.

I make about $12/hr.  I won't devalue that even more by giving away my expertise so that you can try to lowball me with an internet price.

I COULD sell you the lenses by mail for less than the internet site - guaranteed.  ANd just like them I don't care if you can't see, I won't care if they are wrong.  I won't spend any time with you answering your questions and I don't want to hear from you again.

The internet sites aren't selling you the same thing for less.  They are selling you less than you need.  That's a $700 risk I wouldn't take.

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## Justaddwater

Steve, when I'm allowed to post above could you get me out of candy land and get me a straight answer to my original question upstairs. I posted in a bad area. Sorry.

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## Justaddwater

That's not right. We take risk on EBay, but when you have ALL your ducks in a row and send scans, faxes, pictures to a dealer with a 4 1/2 rating out of 5 you should and will most likely get what your paying for. Maybe go to mechanic school for $60 an hour. $12 ain't getting here in my backyard.

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## For-Life

Listen, if this was about me and money, I would be turning around trying to negotiate a sale with you over the web.  Actually, I remember when the 1.74 index was available in Canada and not the US, I had consumers asking me to make glasses for them via the web.  I turned them down.  Why?  Because I knew it would not work.

and to show you that I even have less conflict of interest, I have been retired from the business for about 16 months now.  So I have no financial gain from this discussion whatsoever.

Now, why does this not work on the web?  Well when I read a progressive lens in my lensometer, I move it a little right or left, or up and down, and the lens gives me a complete different prescription.  This is the way the lens is ground.  Now, you may have a PD, but you do not have the fitting height.  You also do not have the pantoscoptic tilt or the vertex distance.  So there is a high chance that the final product just will not provide you vision that you can see through.  

Now, of course these guys will say that it will work.  What happens if it doesn't?  Nothing, they still made the sale.  Their warranties only cover their errors, not yours, not your doctors, not anyone elses.  Even with that, many still charge 50% to fix their own error.

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## Justaddwater

Thanks for a straight answer and I respect your input for life. I'll get up and make things right what  ever it takes. I know all about the math of direct center line vision from my research. Thanks for being respectful. I have provided everything you can except being in front of a table with a measurement guy, tech online. If this wasn't a good idea there wouldn't be online glasses. We don't buy teeth online, but glasses with high tech info should get a product that works in my book.

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## LilKim

> I guess because this isn't candy mountain. This is a question I couldn't get up top to the more forgiving with knowledge. We did more than measure boob size. So you ask why should you help me? I thought that I could find a real lingo answer rather than nothing but negativity. I'm in a fix pal with the replies and need someone with experience. I would rather you go back to the teen site than ask me why should WWWWWEEEEEE, like your someone else tha Joe the Plumber.


So you think that any of us are going to be MORE willing to help you after your little smart *** comments?  Oh, that's right.  You're just another one of those yuppies who thinks they can waltz into a place and snap their fingers, and BAM! their will be done.  In your case, all your questions answered.

What if a Physio is not a good PAL for you?  What if you need a Gradal Top, or a Gradal RD for seeing the computer better?  Or something with a narrower intermediate like a Brevity or Compact Ultra?  What if 1.67 gives you a "rainbow effect", and instead you should've gone with a Trivex or Polycarbonate material?  What kind of junk AR are the going to apply to your lenses?  The kind that will wear off within a few months, no doubt.  What about the glare coming from the highly polished edges?  Sometimes that's so bright not even a good AR will negate it.  Besides, I wouldn't recommend putting someone with a plus sphere into those Kawasaki frames, simply because of their mounting system.  If you were a minus, I'd say you'd have a better chance, simply because there would be a thicker lens edge for the bridge and temples to "hold" onto.

You know what you'd end up doing?  Getting those $700 mail-order pair of glasses, and finding that you can't see your hand in front of your face, getting blinding headaches, or that your floor looks like it's tilting.  So you'll end up going to an optometrist, asking them to double check something that wasn't done properly in the first place.  You'll end up getting new lenses made, costing you another $200, which will bring you to the price you were originally quoted at a legitimate practice.




> If this wasn't a good idea there wouldn't be online glasses.


No, it's because of a legal loophole that this practice is allowed.

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## Justaddwater

Been there. I have high tech working on this with all the math. I'll bow out and let you vent somewhere else. I trust most people and if not they are in trouble. BTW, i bpought all the powr windows, locks and tinted windows you mention.

Good Night, JAW

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## Justaddwater

without spell check tonight

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## mlm

> Steve, when I'm allowed to post above could you get me out of candy land and get me a straight answer to my original question upstairs. I posted in a bad area. Sorry.


Steve isn't going to help you because you didn't pay attention when you signed up:

This forum is for Eyecare Professionals. *Consumers are allowed to post in the Just Conversation forum and non-optical topics only.* Please be aware that any questions involving optics or eyecare may be removed. These kinds of questions should be discussed with a qualified eyecare professional who has examined you and is familiar with your situation.

(paragraph 4 of the OptiBoard guidelines)

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## Happylady

Sorry, I was going to make a helpful suggestion, but your aren't being very nice and you aren't even supposed to be posting here, so I'm not going to. Good luck.

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## Ory

Holy Joe the Plumber!!!!!!!!!!

Why are you people still even commenting on this idiot's glasses.  She's repeatedly broken the posting guidelines.  Continually telling her why it won't work is further educating her.  Restraint please!

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## Happylady

> Holy Joe the Plumber!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Why are you people still even commenting on this idiot's glasses.  She's repeatedly broken the posting guidelines.  Continually telling her why it won't work is further educating her.  Restraint please!


Yea, you're right. And she isn't even being very nice, either. I edited my post.

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## pvbirt

You maybe in for an optical disaster!  First of all not every script is sutible for a total rimless style.  And because of the difference in power of the two lens the thickness will be more noticible. If you are trying to measure for a progressive lens then forget it.  If you order online keep it up it provides a wonderful business for knowledgable opticians.

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## For-Life

> Thanks for a straight answer and I respect your input for life. I'll get up and make things right what  ever it takes. I know all about the math of direct center line vision from my research. Thanks for being respectful. I have provided everything you can except being in front of a table with a measurement guy, tech online. If this wasn't a good idea there wouldn't be online glasses. We don't buy teeth online, but glasses with high tech info should get a product that works in my book.


that is my point.  We cannot trust the input of online glassess.  For instance, what is more important, eye or teeth.  Think about it.

So why do online glasses places exist (I am sure you can find online teeth places too).  Because, they are enough people in the world who fall for it (which I bet happens with online teeth places).  Problem is, that individuals do not understand what opticians do for them.  Not your fault, but week have a week college that defines us.


SO...

When it comes down to it, the product is high defined, but when you create a progressive lens (otherwise know as an invisible bifocal, invisble trifocal, ect, it is grinding in the bifocal and single vision), it is much more complicated than your average stereo, so you get measurements that will not work.  

Actually, there are members of this board that hate invisible bifocals.  I have my experience that tells me better.  But it also tells me to not trust online.



I know people have been hard on you but if you want the truth, I am here to help.

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## Justaddwater

What do you think about Eyemasters. Down south we are limited because of insurance is unavailiable other that a small discount vision care program with our employers. It's better to wait till a Eyemasters or Lenscrafters ad comes out with 50% off RX, 50% off lens and frames. Which are the bottom line frames. Maybe a Tommy or Gant gets in the sale. About $4oo drive out.

I provided an RX with sphere, cylinder, axis, prizm, base and base curve, not to mention the progressive strength. Now there you have it, I paid the doctor got mapped, have hyperopia, astigmatism, and presbyopia. That all you get besides a good chairside manner on most Opts.

So now you get your script to a lens maker or tech. My online people have done a lot of research and kept real good attention and have been calling me with my best intentions of not having any problems. I looked over this board and got caught up in the hoya 1.7 miricle glass. Being my well being is in their hands they have sugested to go with the Varilux Physio 1.67 lenses to achieve the thinnest and capture all of the Rx. I did get none glare and scratch resistent. I also mentioned I do work on a computer 10 hours a day. I'm trusting with the past weeks calls and time they have put into the workmanship of their organ grinders.

I've sat behind people teaching computer lit and saw lens that haven't been cleaned in years. They never complain, but just content to see what they can through the scum. Makes me want to clean them myself. Nevertheless the doctor has never been the one to put the new product on my face. Mostly a 20 something year old tech that cares less about you, but looking for another frame sale after I'm gone. Well with not much respect for a have to situation I do seem to see very well with a new script, I'm use to progressive.

I just wanted to have something different in a place where OK is good enough with hopes somebody might notice something fresh and new about my mug. My glasses, your livelyhood. So I'll take in on the chin if I messed up, but feel this forum is a battle field of dispencers and techs and a few know it all opts that agree on something. I read and saw we do have one common ground, you all are scared of online business. I'm sorry about that, but this human being is looking for easy street not main street.

I just want to look good with my handicap, your bread money, GLASSES that I picked out.

Idios Amigos, Justaddwater

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## Jubilee

Here's the deal.. 

Progressive lenses are a different beast compared to single vision and lined multifocals.

The PAL's operate through a corridor that must line up exactly with the optical center, aligned with your viewing zone. Manufacturing tolerances (ANSI) tells us that even in the smallest scripts, one mm off in any direction can be the difference between a satisfied patient, and one that perceives it is junk. That margin of error drops when patients have higher rx's or a large difference between powers. 

What this means is that by having inprecise measurements you can end up with a pair of glasses that you may have to adjust your view in the following ways:

Tilt your head up read because the fit is too low
Tilt your head down to see distance cause the fit is too high
Turn you head to the left or right cause the pd is off

And in some cases depending on how the pd is off, it could be you just don't see as well without bending or what ever. You could have headahces as your eyes and brain try to make sense of the mess. YOu could pick up the distortion in the periphery much too easily...

It is possible to have the glasses at the right height but still have issues with reading cause the bottom of the glasses are 
too far from the face.

THe best way to make sure we have the right measurement for you, is to see you with the frames on .. and sitting in front of us. We can take into account how and where you sit the glasses. Some people like them right up next to the face, some like them a bit lower down the bridge to clear the eyelashes, and depending upon how we adjust those frames to sit on your face how they feel the best, can mean changing that measurement by 2 mm or more..That is why we advocate adjusting the frame prior to measuring!

Then if you are working 10 hours a day on a computer, depending on the add, we might change the type of PAL to make it easier for this primary task. Or fit the glasses slightly different based upon our experience by working face to face with thousands of patients and knowing their experiences combined with ours.. 

There is also tricks to balance out the lens thickness or account for the image size difference when one eye requires 3 diopters more power than another. 

This is what a true professional place does. They have a conversation with you about what you need your glasses to do, what the pros and cons of all the options are, and designs somethign to accomodate those needs, including the $$ factor.

Included in our price is the consultation, the follow up visits, adjustments, minor repairs (such as tightenings, replacing nose pieces, etc) and our policies to protect you with guarantees, warranties, etc.

Many .. Many.. Private OD's are cheaper than the chains. In fact Lenscrafters charges on the high side compared to most places period. 

As a group, the majority of the optical industry is against online eyewear. Did you know in a large portion of states (though not Texas though they are working on it!) Opticians have to licensed by the state. That they have to meet a certain educational and practical requirement to be able to make sure you are protected as a consumer? Just because something exists online, doesn't make it a welcome and safe alternative. How many think an online doctor is a good idea. Someone who has never seen you, never has read your chart.. and can prescribe something that can kill you.

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## obxeyeguy

> I also measured ever possible PD, lens tall and wide and sent a picture of me wearing them. don't scare me if your a novice optic wanna be. If you do have creditability help fix a problem on a forum that helps people with optic issues.


This is almost funny!! Optic wanna be to someone with over 5000 posts.:finger:


> Holy Joe the Plumber!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Why are you people still even commenting on this idiot's glasses. She's repeatedly broken the posting guidelines. Continually telling her why it won't work is further educating her. Restraint please!


I think that Ory's got it here, restraint people!!! Its a internet consumer.:hammer:

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## Justaddwater

Understand, but we don't have a pair of Kawasaki 705 frames in Texas period. We did go over the lens 49/50/51 deal and match MY Existing lens through Itallie. It's also hard to get a rimless frame on your nose without glass. lol But we are dead on mm.

I still trust ROUTINE work to be ROUTINE though. They have a scale photo with and without my glasses. We also provided pupil to pupil mm, cm. If this doesn't work out I'll smash them with a hammer. I'm not trying to win a contest, I'm just wanting to change a stagnant line of frames that won't go away over time. I'm for change to better myself.

I respect your post, and am a member of Lakewood Chuch in Houston and always expect the best out of everybody, not negativity. I get disappointed somedays, but make things right even if legs get broke. Falls under an eye for an eye.

Bless You

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## Justaddwater

Thanks DO forum leg hugger. Like I said I hate negativity and will not except it. If my volume goes up it's because me dream was broken by forum lover with over 5000 post. Makes you wonder if they're eating and sleeping.

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## DragonLensmanWV

This is exactly the reason consumers are not allowed to ask optical-related questions. They're always wanting advice to circumvent getting actual real in-person help so they can mess over their locally-owned independent businesses in favor of an internet fly-by-night.
BTW, the Kawasaki mounting method is poop.

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## Justaddwater

That's why God made opinions. Proud supporter today of internet sales and can't wait to wear my poop and let everyone know where I got them. That's not being mean, just internet sales eliminates the car salesman and dispencers.

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## bob_f_aboc

> Understand, but we don't have a pair of Kawasaki 705 frames in Texas period. We did go over the lens 49/50/51 deal and match MY Existing lens through Itallie. It's also hard to get a rimless frame on your nose without glass. lol But we are dead on mm.


I could name you at least 10 places in TX to find that frame.




> I still trust ROUTINE work to be ROUTINE though. They have a scale photo with and without my glasses. We also provided pupil to pupil mm, cm. If this doesn't work out I'll smash them with a hammer. I'm not trying to win a contest, I'm just wanting to change a stagnant line of frames that won't go away over time. I'm for change to better myself..


First of all, there is nothing routine about grinding, mounting or fitting a rimless progrssive lens. 

Second, you are so afraid of stepping into a dispensary with real people that you are willing to buy a $700 pinata.




> I respect your post, and am a member of Lakewood Chuch in Houston and always expect the best out of everybody, not negativity. I get disappointed somedays, but make things right even if legs get broke. Falls under an eye for an eye.
> 
> Bless You


That would be Lakewood Church that is still considered "non-profit" even though they just bought the Compaq Center/Summit (also known as the former home court of the Houston Rockets)? You won't walk into an optical shop for an opinion, but you are more than willing to be one of the 25,000+ sheep that file into the aforementioned stadium for a religious service. Or do you watch the service online because you might have to speak to a real person if you went to the service?

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## DragonLensmanWV

> That's why God made opinions. Proud supporter today of internet sales and can't wait to wear my poop and let everyone know where I got them. That's not being mean, just internet sales eliminates the car salesman and dispencers.



without spell check tonight

Can tell.

So now you can go to a tax-free mega-church and feel all smug about how you've outwitted all those fools who decided to invest in your city by providing them with all their taxes from their businesses.
I wish I could see your face on Judgement Day, you hypocrite.

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## Craig

> I purchased some Kawasaki 705 Frames after noticing Sarah Palins glasses. Something you don't see at a Eyemasters or Lenscrafters. I went for the Hoya 1.7 HiVis. I was told that with 1 eye at +1.50 and 1 eye at +4.50 that to reach the thinnest lens and balance of both that I would have to go with the Varilux Physio 1.67 lenses. Now after going through an online Glassetc for progressive, what do you think about the 1.67. I've never paid over $700 for glasses in my life. Tax title and shipping included.
> 
> Justaddwater from IKE torn Baytown, TX
> 
> Excuse me for posting down here, but as a newbie I haven't got the right to post above and need to call these people if you may have some thoughts.


We specialize in frame such as Kawasaki and the only lens to use for use is of trivex material; it is not made in a Physio 360.
At your RX level, you would be better served by less weight over the nose and a thinner edge to ensure the lenses don't break.  1.67 lens can certainly break in a Kawasaki mount and we would actually use a pre-molded one in phoenix at a 1mm edge.

Best of Luck and if you come to Florida, we will do it right and at a fair price.
Craig

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## Craig

> That's why God made opinions. Proud supporter today of internet sales and can't wait to wear my poop and let everyone know where I got them. That's not being mean, just internet sales eliminates the car salesman and dispencers.


If you go to Church on line, get your car's on line, glass's on line- does that mean you are going to sit in front of your computer camera for a check up to save a few dollars!  I trust those people will also be top notch professionals.

Do you even exist: Are you just part of a computer dream!

I just wish you stopped in my store, we would have you very willing to pay for professional advice.  

I will pray for you in the Opticians room!  Listen for me. 

Craig

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## Justaddwater

I exist and thanks Craig. After all the cheating ballots are over I might be in Destin grabbing some sunlight. BTW, I do attend Lakewood regular. All monies that come into that Church stay in the Church. Joel and Victoria only make a living on sales of their own books and speaking in other locations. Even to West Virginians without God.

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