# Professional and Educational Organizations > Professional and Educational Organizations Discussion Forum >  What about Lab Certification?

## driller

This is my first post to the message board. I have been looking for someting like this for a long time. I am not sure if I will be around much. I have been reading all of the posts here and am enjoying what I am reading. 

Is this site aimed more at the retailer or is it also for the wholesaler. I haven't seen any lab talks going on or anything even close to laboratory posts. Maybe I am looking in the wrong places. 

What about lab certification????

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## Steve Machol

Hi driller!  Welcome to OptiBoard!

You're right that there seems to be relatively few lab posts on OptiBoard.   I'd like to see that change however.  Maybe you can help by coming up with topics like this - Certification for Lab Opticians.  In fact, I'm going to spin this off into a separate thread.

Back in the 70s and 80s, the OLA had a very active certification from for Lab Techs called the _Certificate of Optical Laboratory Quality Control Technician_.  I know because I just happen to still have my certificate:



I remember going to an independent testing facility at Arizona State University to take the three hour test.  I seem to remember there were also other requirements too, including work experience and letters of recommendation.   

Personally I think it's a great idea to have a formal certification program for Labs Techs again!

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## Joann Raytar

Driller,

Welcome to OptiBoard!  We would love more posts and responses involving a lab viewpoint.  You should hang around; I think Jeff Trail is getting lonely being one of the few wholesale lab gurus.  ;)

Steve,

That is a great idea.  Many of the exams for the various levels of certification comcetrate on the fitting and dispensing optician not the lab (mechanical) optician.

Having knowledge of not only finishing but surfacing can really benefit people.  There is no better way to comprehend how accurate box measurements, cylinder power and axis, seg heights, decentration, prism and etc. affect the final product then by having to actually fabricate the lenses.

Even though the topic hasn't been covered here much there is as much a variance in lab skills as there is in dispensing skills.

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## Joann Raytar

Doesn't the OLA still certify labs themselves?  What are the requirements for becoming an OLA Certified Lab?

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## MVEYES

Hi everyone,

A couple years back when the OAA national convention was in Minneapolis they offered a certificate course in finishing lab techniques. I took the course which included an exam at the end.  I would like to see more of this type of education and maybe certification through ABO.

 :Cool:  Jerry

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## driller

Thanks to all of you for the replies to my post. I think I will actually stay here a while. 

Steve, I think there should be a Forum on lab talks. It can be wholesale as well as retail. I have done both and prefer wholesale. People I have spoken to over the years have asked what the difference is. Well comparing wholesale to retail can be a lengthy post in my opinion, because I can come up with numerous differences. I think the biggest and most important difference is the quality, especially if the retail lab is in the one hour business. I have checked many pairs of glasses over the years from people that have had trouble adapting to the new glasses they purchased from a one hour facility. I am not knocking the retailers one bit, but I have seen and heard it for myself when someone would say those nasty three little words "THATS GOOD ENOUGH" the patients waiting. Another major reason to me is the opportunity to work with all of the different lens types, materials as well as manufacturers. 

I think there is not enough emphasis on certification for lab opticians. About 10 years ago, there was a large amount of people in my area that went to take the ABO. I got the chance to tutor a few people for the exam and am proud to say that all I tutored passed. Why I never took the test you ask, well I just never did. I was going to take it once but was unable to make it. I was going to go to Dallas to take it, but then was denied the opportuniy, by my boss. I was 25 then and head of QC. I was given some sorry reason, that I shouldn't get certified because it might intimidate some of our accounts. My conclusion on that issue was that she didn't want me to become certified because she had no chance of ever passing that test, but thats another story. So I just never took it. I guess I should have followed up on it  and maybe even taken it on my own time and just keep it to myself just as a personal satisfaction. I might just one day, maybe even ABOM. 

I am going to contact OLA about the certification program to see what is available these days. 

If anyone finds out any info or maybe a website I can go to please let me know....

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## Steve Machol

> _Originally posted by driller_ 
> *Steve, I think there should be a Forum on lab talks. It can be wholesale as well as retail. *


I've actually been seriously considered this.  On the one handm there are people that complain there's already too many forums.  On the other hand, more forums can make it easier to find your topic of interest.  

Any other lab folk out there that would like us to start a lab Forum?

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## driller

Steve,

I would love to actually have a place to go and talk about my days in the lab. I really enjoy my work and would love to get to know others that do as well. I know I felt a little lost when I furst came to the page. 

:cheers:

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## MVEYES

I run a finishing lab at my location. I would love to get tips from you guys.:) 

Jerry

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## Joann Raytar

Me too.

I used to work in a full service lab but we just have a finishing lab at the place I am at now.  I would hate to get out of touch with the latest toys and procedures.

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## driller

Jerry

If there is anything I can be of help with let me know. I love to talk about the day to day things that go on in my lab. I like speaking about equipment and things that I feel need to be done to better the equipment we have today.

I spoke to a guy today that works for a retailer. I asked him if they run all materials. He told me yes except for glass. 

I am not understanding why most people are getting away from glass today. I love to run glass. I know that it can be a little messy, but hey, the spoilage is next to none. I told him that I wouldn't mind running just glass. Give me a couple of 506's, a dual center blocker, 113 generator and a C91 and I will run enough glass for everyone, but hey thats just me. Don't get me wrong, I still love the modern materials of today. I know that glass is not as possible today as it was as yesterday, but there will always be glass to be ground and there will always have to be someone there to do it.

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## Joann Raytar

> I am not understanding why most people are getting away from glass today.


No, glass isn't all that hard to run.  I used to have no problem with glass when I was running Coburn equipment.  I know our current problem is that we have two edgers, an ancient AIT (Mark IV or V - I am experiencing some short term memory loss here) and a National Optronics Horizon II in each of our two stores.  The AIT's are starting to give out on us.  One isn't too bad but parts on the other one, such as the bevel adjustment lever, are starting to freeze up.  We also have a heat oven that has decided it wants to throw sparks all of a sudden.  Since I have a habit of shocking myself at inopportune moments, this makes me leary of using it.

It has just become easier to let our wholesale lab run our glass.  Plus, they are able to chem temper so I see it as an added bonus.

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## MVEYES

I keep a Mark V as a back up edger in case one of my Essilor 900MX edgers go down. I put an all in one roughing wheel on it to do glass, poly and plastic. I use the scanner with the two 900MX's and so far I am pretty well pleased with the performance. I bought a Nidex blocker from Santinelli. I was having problems with paralax and wanted something to help with those high plus or minus lenses. I still use the metal blocks with leap pads.

Jerry  :Cool:

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## MVEYES

Driller,
As a material, working with glass has a lot less spoilage but when you dispense it the liability is pretty high. We have a lot of Amish folk in out area and photogrey xtra is really popular. I guess we might have a few to many personal liability lawyers in the U.S. ?


 :Cool:  Jerry

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## Joann Raytar

> ... but when you dispense it the liability is pretty high.


Comparing glass to CR-39, does anyone know how much more impact resistant CR-39 is than chem treated glass?

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## John R

> _Originally posted by driller_ 
> *Jerry
> 
> I am not understanding why most people are getting away from glass today. I love to run glass. I know that it can be a little messy, but hey, the spoilage is next to none. I told him that I wouldn't mind running just glass. Give me a couple of 506's, a dual center blocker, 113 generator and a C91 and I will run enough glass for everyone, but hey thats just me.  
> *


After 26 years of Glass what else can i say...:bbg: It would seem that folks are moving away as the "Plastic" materials are getting better at resisting marks, or its just the opticians are pushing it harder  :cry:  
Personally we use a 120 gen and a 2125 gen, not sure about the messy in comparsion in plastic though, do you still use emmery to smooth as we now use diamond pads much cleaner and machine friendly.:D

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## Joann Raytar

> we now use diamond pads much cleaner and machine friendly.


OK, now I feel old.  You mean they don't use an emery slurry anymore?  We used to use the metal pads to protect our laps so we wouldn't have to retrue them so often; do you know how many times I slit my hand getting those stupid things off the laps?  They just know how to take the fun out of everything now.

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## optigoddess

Ouch...Jo....I just had a "flash back" to peeling those awful metal pads off of the laps....I have to admit - it's been 5 years or so since I've done it and the feeling is just now returning to my hands!  :bbg:

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## MVEYES

Any thougts or ideas on how to edge a small half eye (besides hand edging)? I have a patternless essilor 900mx and it won't cut a B of less than 19 without scrapping the wheel.

 :Cool:  Jerry

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## John R

> _Originally posted by Jo_ 
> *OK, now I feel old.  You mean they don't use an emery slurry anymore? *


Yes,( though some still do :hammer: )  what a diffrence to keeping things clean :bbg:  Yes Jo, i too still have the scars from the metal foils on the tools and can remember getting as high as a kite when we used evo-stick to glue them down, and trike to clean them up again. Is there any wonder we are all as mad as we are now................

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## Johns

MVEYES:

At least with the amish, you don't have to worry about being  be sued.

Johns

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## Joann Raytar

> used evo-stick to glue them down,


That's nothing.  The drain in the bowl in our backside coater plugged up one day.  Whew.  I think the fumes would have knocked a horse out in about two seconds flat when we opened the lid to the coating chamber.


> Any thougts or ideas on how to edge a small half eye (besides hand edging)? I have a patternless essilor 900mx and it won't cut a B of less than 19 without scrapping the wheel


Jerry,

Is the chuck the part that's hitting?

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## driller

Now that is what I am talking about. I have finally found a place for us lab rats to talk. 

John,

Believe it or not. I ran glass for a long time, but have not run it for five years now. I am currently running a newly opened laboratory and having great succes with all of todays modern materials. We are talking about running glass one day soon. I am not sure when that might be, but I am guessing in the next few months we will. I am currently crunching numbers for equipment and will be looking into getting the equipment I listed in my previous post. I have heard about the diamond pads and am planning on using them. I too have many scars on my hands from those old metal finning pads. I cut myself regularly until a pair of pliers became my best friend. I am seriously thinking about purchasing a new set of laps in tenth diopter intervals so I can use my current set of eigths for glass.

Does anyone remember the good old Coburn aerosol surface saver coating. I used to use it to resurface plastic lenses as well. The problem I found with resurfacing lenses especially minus and weak plus powers (thin centers) would produce a distorted or wavy lens. I felt by spraying it, it would reduce the flattening of the front curve during re-taping. As long as my alloy temperature was within working temperature (118-121 degrees farenheit at the spout) I had no problems re-surfacing resin lenses of any kind.

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## Joann Raytar

The only lens that gave us a problem resurfacing was early HIP.  Now of course, it is considered mid-index.  The reason we usually had to  try and re-fine it was because it had given us a hard time and ended up off power the first time around.  Of course, we were used to surfacing glass and CR-39 and Poly really hadn't caught on yet; we had a ton to learn about the care you needed to take with those guys as far as blocking and controlling heat build up during surfacing.


driller and John,

Do you guys remember when surfacing blocks still had the prism holes in them and folks actually knew what they were for, I don't remember the official name for the stupid holes though?


driller,

You should keep an eye on the classifieds in Vision Monday.  They often list used Coburn surfacing equipment.  You can find full lab set ups with 108's and 113's going for good prices.

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## driller

Does anyone remember when there were three pins on a cylinder machine. The center pin was used for spehrical surfacing, allowing the lens to rotate while fining and polishing on the lap. Better have had a perfect sphere lap or guess what the result would be.

You guessed it

WAVE

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## driller

I remember when I was trying to run 1.56 or even 1.60 Index lenses years ago. I was trying this cutting them with a 113 generator and an owner that believed in generator diamonds lasting forever. The curves were never accurate and never mind the elliptical error induced when cutting steep cross curves. But we did the best we could and when we finnally got one out, it would come right back to the lab with backside lensometer scratches. 

 Back then only the large laboratories had the backside coaters and small labs were unable to afford them. But with all of todays modernized LOH equiopment like 3 axis generators and computerized cylinder machines which allows a PC to control pressures, fining and polishing times by material and back side coaters becomming more affordable those problems are of the past. I have very little hair left due to those problems.

:bbg:

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## Joann Raytar

driller,

OK now, you are starting to give away our ages.

Actually, there is a bit of joy to being older.  We have an old Logo groover in our shop.  Nothing beats the humour value of watching a young 'un put a lens on the suction cup, put the edge of the lens on the blade, turn the groover on and then freak out when the lens and chuck go bouncing off the machine.  I guess he was used to a groover with a motorized chuck and he thought it would just go by itself.  :D

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## Steve Machol

Three pins, Coburn aerosol spray - oh yeah, I remember all of that! 

How many of you can remember running the glass generator with oil-based coolant?  Wasn't it a blast to tell the new kid to backcut the photochray lenses as hard as she/he could!  Our lab had scorch marks in the ceiling from all the new lab rats that fell for that one!   :Eek: 

P.S.  I once burned off all the hair on my left arm and singed my beard because I forgot the 'no back-cut' rule!  :shiner:

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## MVEYES

It is the chuck that is hitting. Does anyone know where I can get a rimless chuck for an Essilor 900MX?

 :Cool:  Jerry

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## John R

> _Originally posted by Steve Machol_ 
> *How many of you can remember running the glass generator with oil-based coolant?
> *


Never had a lens come out for years though, not since we used to use vacum chucks on the generator....
Just lately on the 120 we have bent a couple of wheel spindles when  the wheel fused itself to a lens,( coolent pipes keep getting bent..) boy does that make a noise.... :cry:  :hammer:  :cry:  but still the lens stayed in the chuck.....

Driller, on the laps (523 index) we use 0.12 steps and if we aint got what we need we try to bodge on to a plastic tool (498 index)

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## Joann Raytar

> _Originally posted by Steve Machol_ 
> *How many of you can remember running the glass generator with oil-based coolant?*


I remember that stuff; it was nasty.


> _Originally posted by John R_
> *Never had a lens come out for years though*


We stopped using those thick, oil based coolants awhile ago.  I never had a problem with glass or plastic coming off a block in the generator but I have popped a poly off once or twice.  They were those high plus jobs that pushed the curves our generator would cut and that someone had said our lab couldn't run and I, of course, said yes we can.  They always did come out and looked really nice but cutting them was a pain.

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## Joann Raytar

> _Originally posted by MVEYES_ 
> *It is the chuck that is hitting. Does anyone know where I can get a rimless chuck for an Essilor 900MX?*


Jerry,

Try looking around the Gerber Coburn Store they have some Essilor chucks listed but you would have to take a look or contact them to find out if they have what you are looking for:*http://shop.gerbercoburn.com/shop/servlet/portal/search*

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## gebe33

Lab certification would be Ok if it led to higher pay for lab rats but if the pay isn't higher then it's just anouther test someone has to pay for. Iknow I've been out looking and it is sad how little labs want to pay help right now. As far as the one hour places doing a worst job on lab work, that varies on the expirence of the help and how the store is run. I worked at one before that did all materials including glass and the opticians were very fussy and customers were told they would have to come back if the work wasn't up to ansi standards. I've also seen wholesale labs send out lousy work. This is not to say that this is always the case but just that it is the people that make the difference.
Tom

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## MVEYES

Thanks I'll look there. 


 :Cool:  Jerry

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## driller

> _Originally posted by Steve Machol_ 
> *Three pins, Coburn aerosol spray - oh yeah, I remember all of that! 
> 
> How many of you can remember running the glass generator with oil-based coolant?  Wasn't it a blast to tell the new kid to backcut the photochray lenses as hard as she/he could!  Our lab had scorch marks in the ceiling from all the new lab rats that fell for that one!  
> 
> P.S.  I once burned off all the hair on my left arm and singed my beard because I forgot the 'no back-cut' rule!  :shiner:*


Guys,

I can remember all of those good old days. I was initiated with the old backcut trick. I too have singed my hair and remember the flame that came off of photogrey lenses was quite pretty. We had an eight foot drop ceiling in the lab and there was a hole in the ceiling tile above the generator. I saw a photogrey lens come straight out of the cutting chamber and go thru the ceiling tile creating that hole. My boss asked me to change the tile. I begged not to change it, as I felt it was some sort of omen or something like that. It is was also a great training tool. 

I was recently having trouble with poly coming off the block. I had to reduce the amount of cribbing in the generator even with a polycrystalline diamond.

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## driller

> _Originally posted by MVEYES_ 
> *It is the chuck that is hitting. Does anyone know where I can get a rimless chuck for an Essilor 900MX?
> 
>  Jerry*


Jerry,

If you are using the 18 mm adapter and it is still hitting, then I might suggest trying to bring the overall diameter down in size some how. I used to use the old shuron blocks which were great for shallow b measurement lenses. We would customize our half eye leap blocks by filing off the tops and bottoms. Also I would narrow the adapters' (clamping and block adapters) top and bottom as well. It was easy with the Shuron stlye system because of their rectangle design. Most of the newer stlyes these days are round and making it a little more difficult to deal with when trying to customize or modify. If you know of a good machine shop some where maybe you could have an adapter made. It might not be a swivel, but they might be able to use a thinner metal which would allow the chuck to be made smaller in diameter. Then go to a leather shop with your new adapter and have them cut or punch you some pads to fit it. I have done that in the past. I fine that there is not better then wet leather when it comes to clamping pads and preventing lens slippage. But remember the smaller you go the better chances of cracking, so watch the clamping pressure. Also by going smaller you risk the chance of folding the lens a little which could cause the shape and size to be inaccurate as well as the bevel palcement.

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## MVEYES

Get Road Runner cable hook up. It's great. You will pop in and out without problems.

 :Cool:  Jerry

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## Steve Machol

> _Originally posted by driller_ 
> *I am having trouble logging in at times. Is it something with my settings or what?*


Logging into OptiBoard or logging into the Interent?  If OptiBoard, what exactly is the problem you're having?

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## MVEYES

Thanks for the solution to my chuck problem. I have cut the metal blocks but the holders are still hitting.


 :Cool:  Jerry

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## JasonW

Yes PLEASE....would love more help with mastering the art of surfacing.



There would be no music if it wernt for Elvis.............John Lennon:cheers:

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## HarryChiling

> Any other lab folk out there that would like us to start a lab Forum?


I work in the one hour lab that was so brutaly mentioned ;) and would love to have a lab forum.

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## HarryChiling

Steve,
It just came to me, how about a sub forum under ophthalmic optics.  This way it would not be adding another forum, but there would be a place for labs.  Just a suggestion. :)

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## k12311997

1. I think a lab subforum would be cool if there was enough use.  I personally haven't been in a lab, other than to tour the wholesale lab we deal with, in 7 years and woud be intrested in attracting more people from that side of things.

2. This thread is over 4 years old and the guy who started it stayed for a whopping 19 days so maybee could be hard keeping up the intrest level.

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## Slugathor

Would love to discuss about the hell that is being a optical lab tech :angry:.  Have been only working for Lenscrafters for about 8 months (totally green before that) and already feel so violated in so many ways :shiner:.

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## HarryChiling

> Would love to discuss about the hell that is being a optical lab tech :angry:. Have been only working for Lenscrafters for about 8 months (totally green before that) and already feel so violated in so many ways :shiner:.


Violated you say, hehehe.  I get frustrated with the dispensing opticiasn that like to promise stuff at wierd times of the day so I end up cherry picking jobs all day and feel like I never get real work done. :hammer:

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## Slugathor

> Violated you say, hehehe. I get frustrated with the dispensing opticiasn that like to promise stuff at wierd times of the day so I end up cherry picking jobs all day and feel like I never get real work done. :hammer:


  I always wondered why the lab techs were such hardliners about standing your ground against the retail associates on the otherside of the wall of glass.  When I first talked to the retail guys, they all seemed cool......but as soon as they realized I was a hard worker and tried to get everything done on time....is when my hell began:angry:.  

-I tell them surface is closed at 730pm and I see 2 surface orders appear at 8pm, both 1 hours, both with grey solid 3 tints, roll and polish, , both pairs use the same lap, which we only have one of, and to top it all off both have cross and bases that are too low for our generator.  We close at 9pm, sigh.

I would go on, but this post would never end heh.  I am just glad my Lab Manager and I agree that we both need to get our ABO certification asap and work somewhere tolerable.  We are both waiting for the study guide and stalking the DHL guy :D.  Anyone here work for Costco or Kaiser Permanente in California?  I hear there are some good Lab Tech opportunities over there if you have your ABO Certification.

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## FullCircle

> I always wondered why the lab techs were such hardliners about standing your ground against the retail associates on the otherside of the wall of glass. When I first talked to the retail guys, they all seemed cool......but as soon as they realized I was a hard worker and tried to get everything done on time....is when my hell began:angry:. 
> 
> -I tell them surface is closed at 730pm and I see 2 surface orders appear at 8pm, both 1 hours, both with grey solid 3 tints, roll and polish, , both pairs use the same lap, which we only have one of, and to top it all off both have cross and bases that are too low for our generator. We close at 9pm, sigh.
> 
> I would go on, but this post would never end heh. I am just glad my Lab Manager and I agree that we both need to get our ABO certification asap and work somewhere tolerable. We are both waiting for the study guide and stalking the DHL guy :D. Anyone here work for Costco or Kaiser Permanente in California? I hear there are some good Lab Tech opportunities over there if you have your ABO Certification.


Surface side should be closing at 8. Heck, we close it at 8:15, finish at 8:30.

Learn to change base curves, cut low curves on a 113 and utilize Central Lab if you can't handle it.   Yes, later in the evening jobs are annoying. But they don't happen every day and it is money coming in. Money that pays for you to be there to begin with.

Last I checked, R&P still bought you 3hrs, making that a next day job anyway. 

Yes, there are stumbling blocks in terms of dealing with retail. But we all work on the same team. And honestly, without them, you don't have a gig.  

You've been there 8 months if I recall from one of your posts. You, as far as I'm concerned are still as green as they come. you are currently getting some of the best job training available in optics FOR FREE. If you hang around long enough and learn enough to pass your ABO, LC PAYS YOU FOR IT.  I'm not seeing what there is to whine about.

Lab Techs are a dime a dozen.  But the good ones are worth their weight in gold.  Which one do you want to be?

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## HarryChiling

> I always wondered why the lab techs were such hardliners about standing your ground against the retail associates on the otherside of the wall of glass. When I first talked to the retail guys, they all seemed cool......but as soon as they realized I was a hard worker and tried to get everything done on time....is when my hell began:angry:. 
> 
> -I tell them surface is closed at 730pm and I see 2 surface orders appear at 8pm, both 1 hours, both with grey solid 3 tints, roll and polish, , both pairs use the same lap, which we only have one of, and to top it all off both have cross and bases that are too low for our generator. We close at 9pm, sigh.
> 
> I would go on, but this post would never end heh. I am just glad my Lab Manager and I agree that we both need to get our ABO certification asap and work somewhere tolerable. We are both waiting for the study guide and stalking the DHL guy :D. Anyone here work for Costco or Kaiser Permanente in California? I hear there are some good Lab Tech opportunities over there if you have your ABO Certification.


Comes with the territory, our sales floor likes to shave times I give them, if I say two days the promise one and if I say an hour they're tellign the patient how fast I am and they will be ready in 15-20 minutes.

The reason I get from them everytime I confront this situation is that they think that this is provideing great customer service, their idea is that the quicker we get it done the more impressed they will be.  However I know better the more of my "just in case time" you cut out of my jobs the more negatively it effects the customer satisfaction.  We go in cycles where they start to follow the rules and give times like instructed and what happens is that they get cocky, they see that all the jobs are coming out on time and that they no longer get the calls asking when glasses are going to be ready and make the assumption that it must be I have a boat load of time to make the glasses, then they start back up with the shaving time.

We have an overnight delivery from our warehouse everyday so we get lenses next day but I always tell them 2 days because sometimes the picking department screws up and I get the wrong lens this additional time gives me an opportunity to CYA, also at times I mess a job up and I have time to redo it without delays.

Also in a retail/lab enviornment people tend to see you working in the back making their glasses and the assume you know more then the people dispensing which sometimes is the case.  Our floor opticians have a tendency to try and pull me away from work to troubleshoot, or help on the floor.  I learned very early you need to be firm in tellign them that this is not your job and if you are to do both, you will never do both in the same day.  Nothing is more aggrevateing then an hour job sitting in the back while your troubleshooting a job with a patient you know is going to be at least 45 minutes if not more with you, you will come off as anxious or in a hurry and often that will lead to bad blood between you and the patient.

Just make some rules and present them and why you need these rules adhered to and make your job better, cause every retail/lab enviornment will be this way without setting the ground rules and every large lab you will work under some prick that thinks they know everything and get paid next to nothign to perform one meanial task in the fabrication process.  Try polishing everyday for 8-10 hours a day 5 days a week.  Talk abotu a lifetime of headaches, I think it took me a year after that experience to grow a portion of my brains back and I'm still reatarded.:hammer:

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## FullCircle

> Just make some rules and present them and why you need these rules adhered to and make your job better, cause every retail/lab enviornment will be this way without setting the ground rules and every large lab you will work under some prick that thinks they know everything and get paid next to nothign to perform one meanial task in the fabrication process. Try polishing everyday for 8-10 hours a day 5 days a week. Talk abotu a lifetime of headaches, I think it took me a year after that experience to grow a portion of my brains back and I'm still reatarded


Well said, Harry.

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## Fezz

> Try polishing everyday for 8-10 hours a day 5 days a week. Talk abotu a lifetime of headaches, I think it took me a year after that experience to grow a portion of my brains back and I'm still reatarded.:hammer:


 
Or.....
Blocking 
Generating
Inspection
So on and so on....


LOL.....UGH!!!!

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## Slugathor

> Surface side should be closing at 8. Heck, we close it at 8:15, finish at 8:30.
> 
> Learn to change base curves, cut low curves on a 113 and utilize Central Lab if you can't handle it. Yes, later in the evening jobs are annoying. But they don't happen every day and it is money coming in. Money that pays for you to be there to begin with.
> 
> Last I checked, R&P still bought you 3hrs, making that a next day job anyway. 
> 
> Yes, there are stumbling blocks in terms of dealing with retail. But we all work on the same team. And honestly, without them, you don't have a gig. 
> 
> You've been there 8 months if I recall from one of your posts. You, as far as I'm concerned are still as green as they come. you are currently getting some of the best job training available in optics FOR FREE. If you hang around long enough and learn enough to pass your ABO, LC PAYS YOU FOR IT. I'm not seeing what there is to whine about.
> ...


I am guessing you work or worked for them before and got lucky and worked in a store where everyone got along.

-I never trained on the CDs, my lab manager told me to say I did QIP when doing the written LC cert test.

-I was never given training on the job period, I had to watch the older guys very carefully when they worked with me in the morning, so when I was alone from 4-9 during our busiest period, I could at least attempt (I admit I went through several breakages to get some of the machines right).

-When I try and tell retail a order is better of going to central lab, I get worked on pretty hard.  Really unfair to assume a guy like me can do the job of a 5+ year pro (I show the jobs to my lab manager who has 6+ year himself and even he says they are definitely C/L jobs and some will prolly be sent back as undoable).

-I work alone from 3-9, even on saturdays, our busiest day.

-You ever been alone during a busy period when the Edger and Waxer breaks, cannot get hold of any of the experienced techs on the phone, with the GM breathing down your neck saying "time is money!" ?

-LC paying for it?  I saw my lab manager fax my promotion to prod. tech II.  It is now 3 months and my paycheck still reads eyewear consultant with the corisponding pay  :cry: .  I have spent over 200 dollars on antifreeze for the chiller and 70% alcohol from walgreens because we can't afford to get enough 99% isoprophol.

Look man, I don't mean to be a whiner, it is just that I think what I have been through is a bit over the top.  I am thankful that there is a company that will "train" you even if you only have your GED.  I am also glad I am getting "experience," even if it is through the worst means possible. I just wish they made your stay a little bit more pleasant :shiner:.

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## FullCircle

> -I never trained on the CDs, my lab manager told me to say I did QIP when doing the written LC cert test


you should be doing the Earn As you Learn Program and have completed the QMP program.  




> I was never given training on the job period, I had to watch the older guys very carefully when they worked with me in the morning, so when I was alone from 4-9 during our busiest period, I could at least attempt (I admit I went through several breakages to get some of the machines right).


Sooo...why are you alone during the busiest time?  hope you're not doing something silly like punching jobs early so the RQC doesn't question why your RWP is in the toilet. Punching jobs early is still a fireable offense.




> When I try and tell retail a order is better of going to central lab, I get worked on pretty hard. Really unfair to assume a guy like me can do the job of a 5+ year pro (I show the jobs to my lab manager who has 6+ year himself and even he says they are definitely C/L jobs and some will prolly be sent back as undoable


Yeah. See, there's guidelines. Its in the computer. Print them up. There's no reason that retail can force your hand if is in black and white.




> I work alone from 3-9, even on saturdays, our busiest day.


And this still sounds fishy. You must not be THAT busy of a store if there isn't at least 2 people on staff.




> You ever been alone during a busy period when the Edger and Waxer breaks, cannot get hold of any of the experienced techs on the phone, with the GM breathing down your neck saying "time is money!"


1. you call the repair center. # should be on a sticker on the phone. 
2. you call your RQC and let them know that machinery is down. 
3. you call your LM or Lead Tech.
4. If you can't fix it, call another store and either get help or make arrangements for shuttle work until it can be fixed.

I've had the curing unit catch fire and a 5056 blow a fuse and seize up at another store that I filled in at.




> -LC paying for it? I saw my lab manager fax my promotion to prod. tech II. It is now 3 months and my paycheck still reads eyewear consultant with the corisponding pay . I have spent over 200 dollars on antifreeze for the chiller and 70% alcohol from walgreens because we can't afford to get enough 99% isoprophol


Who did they fax it to? RQC has to approve it before AR can do anything. Its your LM's job to follow up. Or the Lead Tech, actually. You spent money? Why? CP gets put through 1ce a month with a back up half way. There is no reason to not be able to purchase the bare neccessities to make eyewear.  And $200 for coolant? Fill out a T & E form and get reimbursed. And how much coolant can that thing really hold?  And yes, they reimburse you for the ABO test if you pass.

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## FullCircle

BTW, are you Inspector Certified? If not, you can't be checking out jobs.

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## Slugathor

Uh, for some reason, my answers became apart of your quotes, dunno how to fix that.



I have never heard of the program, I will ask my LM about that.


I have told the GM multiple times that I need help during certain times. I even posted a schedule on the door to her office to help her set up the official schedule. Time and time again she lets retail and lab guys go home before 3pm because it's "not that busy." Every freakin time it gets busy and she is in a mad dash to call people back. Rarely, once in a blue moon, I might get emergency help from a store a couple miles away, but this is really rare.


For your information, I don't have time to be silly. All I can do is what I can do to the best of my ability. I don't clock out orders early, I don't hide breakages (although I have caught a lab trainee doing both). 


I am going to ask my LM about this. If I do find stuff I am going to nail it to the back entrance and to the entrance between the lab and retail side. 


Part of this is answered above. You have no idea how much of a nazi my GM is. I know for sure we make goal every other week ( I know for a fact it is so hard to make goal every week. You make goal on monday, then they up the goal on tuesday by 3 grand, wthhhhh? ). We have made our past two monthly goals for sure, not sure before that. I will have to check the past reports when I go to work tommorrow. I do know for a fact that our during our last corporate visit (my guess is the RQC), they said we were top 3 in the region, behind pleasanton and some other store.



I wish it was that simple, it took them 3 months to replace our lab printer. We even ran out of paper for a week and had to use the really really expensive eyemed paper (which i hear is like a couple dollars a piece).


That sux. I guess its good in a sense when you have to fix it yourself, you eventually learn how to fix it and know its tendencies. Like my waxer as a example, it was bought in 1987, I had to replace a plastic tube inside it that had never been replaced (ya know the thin blue one that comes out? I dunno if there are different waxers). I have to use gloves (you got the ones that make your hands smell like ***?) though, there is so much rust on it, i will get tetanus from just looking at it.


All I remember was my LM faxing some form with a carbon copy. I am going to ask him about it. The 200$ was not for just the coolant, but for the alcohol too. I checked the inventory listing and those alcohol jugs cost almost freakin 50 bucks! And yes, the Coolant thing can hold a lot. When I first started, my first job was to get all the air bubbles out of that coolant system. I dont know if all the coolant machines are the same, but to completely refill mine, you have to turn it on and put the tube in the air to let the bubbles come up and pop like a volcano, right in your face:shiner:.

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## Slugathor

> BTW, are you Inspector Certified? If not, you can't be checking out jobs.


 
No, I have passed the written part.  Havent taken the inspection part yet (RQC couldnt keep us for more then 4 hours for the test, he had over 5 ppl and only one set of glasses for that part of the test.  Will take that part probably in 2 weeks). 

I know I shouldn't be doing it.  Do I want to do it? No.  I have to because my GM and LM are making me do it.

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## FullCircle

> those alcohol jugs cost almost freakin 50 bucks


*sigh* that price is for 4 gallons. Stop buying things. You aren't management, you aren't using the corporate card. Just stop.

Your answers are appearing as quotes because I did that.

To replace the printer requires a call to the computer center. Same place you call when the computers go down. They hae a new one sent out in 2 days, you plug it in and send theother one back.




> Like my waxer as a example, it was bought in 1987


Yep. And they're still good blockers. Used to run alloy back in the day.

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## Slugathor

> *sigh* that price is for 4 gallons. Stop buying things. You aren't management, you aren't using the corporate card. Just stop.
> 
> Your answers are appearing as quotes because I did that.
> 
> To replace the printer requires a call to the computer center. Same place you call when the computers go down. They hae a new one sent out in 2 days, you plug it in and send theother one back.
> 
> 
> Yep. And they're still good blockers. Used to run alloy back in the day.


I never said I bought those 4 gallons.  I was curious as to how much it cost.  When we ran out (whichs happened a lot) I went out to buy that 70% stuff from walgreens.  

I know I am not management.  Frankly, I dont really care anymore if we run out of something, I have yet to recieve compensation for it, even though my GM said she would take care of it. 

As for the printer, I am just stating how long it took, that is all.  I have no control over that stuff.  The LM and GM took care of that part.  

Whats this alloy?  :Nerd:

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## OPTIDONN

Oh boy! This makes me miss my LC days! Slugathor...don't always assume that there's a better opportunity some where else...there's morons every where you go. LC is a great place to learn the basics. Stay for another year or so before you leave. 

That's great that you want your ABO but don't stop there, go for your Master Certification as well!

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## eyemanflying

> No, I have passed the written part. Havent taken the inspection part yet (RQC couldnt keep us for more then 4 hours for the test, he had over 5 ppl and only one set of glasses for that part of the test. Will take that part probably in 2 weeks). 
> 
> I know I shouldn't be doing it. Do I want to do it? No. I have to because my GM and LM are making me do it.


Reading through all of this, one thing comes to mind...it's obvious your managers lack all of the skills required to be successful managers and mentors.  It is absolutely inexcusable to have an 8 month old 'green' employee bearing the brunt of all management's mistakes.  The optical industry is a great industry, don't let this mess taint your opinion.  Call in the 'Donald' (1-800-LCSNITCH) , and fire their sorry a$$es.  It's confidential and I'm sure LC Corporate would love to hear about this.  When I worked there 20 years ago, LC Corporate actually employed a retired FBI investigator that would simply run a paper trail, and VOILA!  They will then replace those positions, hopefully with dedicated, knowledgeable, experienced managers.

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## HarryChiling

> I have spent over 200 dollars on antifreeze for the chiller


That chiller must be bleeding coolant, sounds like it needs hoses replaced or something. Find the problem and fix it or it will eat you up, it's far easier to maintain a lab then to run it into the ground.

From the sounds of it you got a diamond in the rough, a bunch of idiots running the ship. All you need to worry about is learning the ropes and when the time comes takes the reigns and make it better. Or keep looking for that great optical gig that pays a fortune, it's like a [glowo=yellow]pot of gold[/glowo] at the end of a [glowo=black]rainbow[/glowo]

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## Slugathor

> That chiller must be bleeding coolant, sounds like it needs hoses replaced or something. Find the problem and fix it or it will eat you up, it's far easier to maintain a lab then to run it into the ground.
> 
> From the sounds of it you got a diamond in the rough, a bunch of idiots running the ship. All you need to worry about is learning the ropes and when the time comes takes the reigns and make it better. Or keep looking for that great optical gig that pays a fortune, it's like a [glowo=yellow]pot of gold[/glowo] at the end of a [glowo=black]rainbow[/glowo]


Yea.  Despite all the ding dong that hits the fan everyday:shiner:, I do learn a lot.  Our 113 generator busted yesterday and me and a coworker had to fix it for the first time in like 3 years.  Come to think of it, I better run the polisher pumper in some hot water, dont think anyone has maintained that in like a month  :cry: .

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## Ginster

I started out At Vision Works owned by Eckerd opticals in Miami Fla. I've even worked some wholesale labs in my 25 Yrs'.  I now work for an Ophthalmology Practice here in Texas.  I could not imagine being without the skills and knowledge I learned while working for a lab. I would love to see a lab forum.  And yes I remember the three pin fining and polishers, and the old generator;s that where bigger than me.:p

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## Slugathor

Ya know, I recently went into a privately owned store and talked to the owner a bit.  He let me see his lab and I felt like I was on another planet.  It was really tiny, but the machines inside the lab beared no resemblance to what I use at my LC store(everything is ancient-from the 80's and 90's).  All the machines have LCD panels and are whisper quiet; I think one of the machines is a marker/edger combo but I cant be sure.  I am worried when I do leave, I will have to relearn everything about the manufacturing of lenses again :hammer:

So anyway, I thought I would give you a update on the previous mess I was discussing about.  Turns out my LM switched the day and month on my promotion fax thing.  Just got certified today with one of my lab coworkers.  Was seriously thinking about taking the ABO in may but I need to focus on finishing up my BS.

As for my store not having the best management, my RQC was telling me that it has been a problem for a while.  While I was taking the inspection test, he was telling me that san francisco had like the highest turnover rate in the nation.  My LM has seen several GMs go through the store in just the past couple years.

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## HarryChiling

> Ya know, I recently went into a privately owned store and talked to the owner a bit. He let me see his lab and I felt like I was on another planet. It was really tiny, but the machines inside the lab beared no resemblance to what I use at my LC store(everything is ancient-from the 80's and 90's). All the machines have LCD panels and are whisper quiet; I think one of the machines is a marker/edger combo but I cant be sure. I am worried when I do leave, I will have to relearn everything about the manufacturing of lenses again :hammer:
> 
> So anyway, I thought I would give you a update on the previous mess I was discussing about. Turns out my LM switched the day and month on my promotion fax thing. Just got certified today with one of my lab coworkers. Was seriously thinking about taking the ABO in may but I need to focus on finishing up my BS.
> 
> As for my store not having the best management, my RQC was telling me that it has been a problem for a while. While I was taking the inspection test, he was telling me that san francisco had like the highest turnover rate in the nation. My LM has seen several GMs go through the store in just the past couple years.


The nice thing about working on older equipment is that it was very manual so you learned the concepts on how to fabricate lenses, the new equipment does everything for you so it's easier to work.  All the equipment does the same stuff it's just now more automated so you'll be fine.

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## EdgerGuy

I have read through this post and it brings back alot of good, and bad, memories.  I started at a LC over ten years ago.  Went from frame stylus to LM and then straight to burnt out.  :hammer:  However; I learned most everything I know from the time spent there.  I started with an old 108CT, two Weco 440's and a Horizon II.  I was lucky enough to have a LM that taught me the "old" way of doing things and how to figure all job information on paper without the crutch of the computer.  All I can say to anyone getting started in optics is learn all you can and ask as many question as you can think of.  With the new edgers in the market now there is a void on true optical knowledge in the field.  If you can learned on the older style equipment, the new equipment will be simple.  They are designed so anyone can run them, but if you know how it truly works you will be able to use the new stuff to their fullest potential.  I work for an edger distributor and I see it every day.  People with the simplest question that they can not figure out because they don't truly understand what the edger is doing.

Basically...stick with it, learn all you can and become a true professional in our field!

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## Leo Hadley Jr

> I have read through this post and it brings back alot of good, and bad, memories. I started at a LC over ten years ago. Went from frame stylus to LM and then straight to burnt out. :hammer:


You were a Frame Stylus????
What was it like running through all that nose cheeeze?
LOLOLOLOLL:D


p.s. only a true edger guy could mix up a stylus and a stylist.:bbg:

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## Slugathor

It's been a while since there has been a post but i thought i would reply to some of the more recent posts.

I would love to understand how to figure out the "white" manually. My LM boasts how he was taught how to do it. So I asked him if he would teach me and he said it was such a long time ago he forgot :finger:. This is pretty much the only thing left that I do not understand fully. I mean, I can look at the "white" and tell the retail people if it will work or not, I just dont understand fully how they calculate the laps, prism rings, and other such things. Honestly, I am not sure what more i can really learn other then the "white." I feel like I have hit a ceiling which can only be broken with getting my ABO (I am taking it in Nov. :D). The LM told me that he was gonna watch me and another tech about the lead tech position, but that was like 5 months ago... :cry: . I am guessing it has to do with our slow business. Today, our Optometrist was told to stay home, so we had no appointments :drop:. As for nose cheese (shivers)..... I just cleaned a pair of what looked like WWI glasses for a old man today. As I was cleaning em, i noticed the cheese wasn't like the usual variety. It was crusted all over the frame where the bevel of the lenses slot into.....I think it was blood, cause it smelled funny. Thank god i was wearing my gloves. That reminds me, yet another item I have to put on the dry eraser board to be ordered, I swear my LM wont order more stuff until surface is down or the GM is breathing down his neck. Just curious, is it a serious health hazard if there is no air filtration system over the tint machine? I swear whenever I turn that thing on, it smells like behind:angry:. Also, I am assuming its really bad if you dont wear a mask when you roll and polish a lens with that green gunk? The LM refuses to buy the masks for some reason, I am getting to the point where I should buy my own personal masks.

Anyway, I hope I pass the ABO exam (using Michael Disanto's Certification Review Book). I have survived this much, might as well and try and make a career out of it :shiner:.

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## chip anderson

Slug:
Always capitalize God!

Don't be such a woose about a little dirt.  You can get enough masks for 6 months for undr $5.00 at harbour frieght if you are that fearfull of germs and fumes.

Chip

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