# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  Incredibly naïve question on Altair and VSP signature

## ilanh

Here's an issue that I feel I must be "missing something".  We currently buy Altair frames for our optical shop.  Many VSP signature patients are fit with these frames.  However, for those patients who want to stick to their exact frame allowance there is not a great difference between what we pay for these frames and what we get reimbursed by VSP.  Since the patient is paying nothing, and since VSP is reimbursing you approximately what you paid for them, this appears to be a no-profit transaction.

On the other hand, at the Vision Expo West I saw frames that one could get at a discount from the official Frames fax list price eg:Lido West and others.  Those frames could be sold to VSP signature patients who wanted to strictly stick to their allowance.  VSP would pay us the max allowable price.  However, unlike Altair, we can get these frames at a  better discount and therefore realize a better profit.

My optician has raised the possibility that perhaps these discounted frames will have more breakage than Altair.  I don't know if this is true but there must be a very compelling reason to sell frames at no profit.

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## HarryChiling

> Here's an issue that I feel I must be "missing something". We currently buy Altair frames for our optical shop. Many VSP signature patients are fit with these frames. However, for those patients who want to stick to their exact frame allowance there is not a great difference between what we pay for these frames and what we get reimbursed by VSP. Since the patient is paying nothing, and since VSP is reimbursing you approximately what you paid for them, this appears to be a no-profit transaction.
> 
> On the other hand, at the Vision Expo West I saw frames that one could get at a discount from the official Frames fax list price eg:Lido West and others. Those frames could be sold to VSP signature patients who wanted to strictly stick to their allowance. VSP would pay us the max allowable price. However, unlike Altair, we can get these frames at a better discount and therefore realize a better profit.
> 
> My optician has raised the possibility that perhaps these discounted frames will have more breakage than Altair. I don't know if this is true but there must be a very compelling reason to sell frames at no profit.


So finding out that VSP doesn't really want you making money selling their clients eyewear.

Get rid of the Altair stuff and start to stock product that is more profitable for your dispensary.  Keep in mind that VSP does know about these very same frames you talk about and someone earlier mentioned that VSP has  a stipulation that you are not supposed to sell their clients frames that you acquired for a discount more than 20% of the frame facts price.

There are ways around it, just PM me fro more info.

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## MarcE

Yes, you are right - except for the higher breakage part.

Why would they have a higher breakage rate?  They are made at the same factory, same quality with 2 middle-men (both being VSP in Altair's case) removed.

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## Johns

> Since the patient is paying nothing, and since VSP is reimbursing you approximately what you paid for them, this appears to be a no-profit transaction.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if this is true but there must be a very compelling reason to sell frames at no profit.


 
1.)  Welcome to VSP!:D:D... :cry:  :cry:  :cry: ...:hammer:

2.)  Why sell at no profit?   For the traffic of course!:hammer:

Fun Fact of the Day:  Did you know that VSP is a non-profit organization? (They really are!)

This means *you* make no profit.

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## Andrew Weiss

1) Altair is one of the few consignment product lines that we, as dispensers, can actually control.  They will let you set the lines you want to carry and the number of pieces of each.

2) Altair's discounts are based on monthly volume; the more you order, the better the discount, but it maxes out at 20%.

3) It only makes sense to stock the more expensive Altair lines -- Tommy Bahama, Sunlites, Joseph Abboud, some Sigrid Olsen -- because the discounts are slim.

For the frames that are within the majority of patients' plans, I suggest going elsewhere.  There really is good product out there at better price terms.  Go to the professional forum and you'll find more discussion on this.

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## drk

Senor Hartstein:

You donna understand VSP, amigo.  Si, you get about zero difference between your Altair acquisition cost and your "frame allowance", but senor, you also get a "frame dispensing fee".

In other words, the VSP gringos reimburse you for your frame cost, and your "margin" is construed as a "professional fee".  

Buenos dias.

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## snowmonster

Go with less expensive frames from Lido or Ideal Optics for your cheap/low cost "plan allowance" stuff.  With VSP, you have to max out any profit you can, and that means evaluating your pricing schedule.  I just bumped up all of our frame prices by $40 and nobody has complained.

   -Steve

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## cocoisland58

Never have carried Altair frames or ordered anything from or through VSP and yet it is almost 30% of our business now. Our VSP patients buy from any collection they wish and pay the diference between coverage and retail minus 20%. With dispensing fees and options added we are way more than breaking even. Our check from VSP twice a month is always substantial.

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