# Conversation and Fun > Just Conversation >  A little thing I heard on NPR

## GOS_Queen

I was listening to NPR on the way home the other night and was intrigued by this story about the benefits of using CFL's (compact fluorescent lights).  

*http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7279952*

I live in a part of the US that is heavily into recycling and sustainable living practices. I consider myself to be pretty "green" but I have never purchased any of these CFL's.  It's not that I hadn't heard of them before but I guess I was just apathetic ( :Eek:  ).  

The NPR story featured this website which gave me some "umph" to make a change.  

*http://www.onebillionbulbs.com/*

*~* here's an excerpt from the main page *~* --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
*Save Money* - Compact fluorescent light bulbs typically consume 65% - 75% less electricity than regular light bulbs. And they last up to 10 times longer than regular bulbs. The bottom line is that you'll save money by replacing standard light bulbs with CFL bulbs. 

*Help the Environment* - Most electricity in the U.S. is produced by coal-fired power plants. The problem is that for every kilowatt hour of electricity generated by a coal-fired plant, the EPA estimates that 1.43 lbs of greenhouse gases are released into the atmosphere. By switching to energy-saving CFL light bulbs, you lessen greenhouse gas emissions into the atmosphere.


No matter what your age, political leanings or worldview might be, we hope that you'll agree with us that it makes economic and environmental sense to take action. 

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Anyway, I just wanted to pass that along in hopes some people will be inspired also!  :idea:

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## For-Life

I think it is California that is pushing for the sale of the incandescent light bulb to be illegal.  I guess it is one of those things of "why not?"  There are more benefits to the consumer and the environment with the CFL, so we might as well start using them.

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## Grubendol

the quality of light is generally better from an incan, but there is no question that in every other way the compact flourescent is better

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## gemstone

You can usually follow the money trail on these kind of things.  I am going to research for a stock market opportunity.

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## HarryChiling

If you want to really save some dough, try the LED bulbs they hardly use any electricity at all and almost last forever.  The down side is that they are quite expensive right now, but the saveings offsets the cost.

http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/s...categoryID=572

(I don't have any affiliation with this company and if you look around you could probably find cheaper)

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## orangezero

> If you want to really save some dough, try the LED bulbs they hardly use any electricity at all and almost last forever.  The down side is that they are quite expensive right now, but the saveings offsets the cost.
> 
> http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/s...categoryID=572
> 
> (I don't have any affiliation with this company and if you look around you could probably find cheaper)


I'm not so sure about that.  I think the high price of the bulbs offsets any savings in energy use.  The difference in energy consumption between compact fluor. and leds is not as big of a jump as switching all to compact fluor from regular light bulbs.  Maybe, eventually when the prices drop significantly.


I've got compact flour. in pretty much all my lamps and lights in my house.  They seem to work really well, a bit dim the first 5 - 10 seconds maybe..  The nice thing is you can put a much lower rated bulb in and still get a much brighter room.  And still, the cost is much less.

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## rbaker

The additional energy consumed in the manufacture of these lamps far exceeds the amount of power saved. So using them actually has a net increase in electricity consumed versus lumens of light provided. 

The higher cost of this product will offset anp savings  on your electric bill.

That being said I suppose that it will make all of the tree huggers and global warming freaks happy.

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## GOS_Queen

> ]The additional energy consumed in the manufacture of these lamps far exceeds the amount of power saved. So using them actually has a net increase in electricity consumed versus lumens of light provided. [/B]
> 
> The higher cost of this product will offset anp savings on your electric bill.
> 
> That being said I suppose that it will make all of the tree huggers and global warming freaks happy.


That's fascinating!  Do you have a link where I could research this information?  I like to hear both sides of an argument.

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## shanbaum

> The additional energy consumed in the manufacture of these lamps far exceeds the amount of power saved. So using them actually has a net increase in electricity consumed versus lumens of light provided. 
> 
> The higher cost of this product will offset anp savings on your electric bill.
> 
> That being said I suppose that it will make all of the tree huggers and global warming freaks happy.


 
Would you be so kind as to post a citation to an authoritative source that supports your assertion?

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## Fezz

> The additional energy consumed in the manufacture of these lamps far exceeds the amount of power saved. So using them actually has a net increase in electricity consumed versus lumens of light provided. 
> 
> The higher cost of this product will offset anp savings  on your electric bill.
> 
> That being said I suppose that it will make all of the tree huggers and global warming freaks happy.



Could be true? I've heard a similar argument about gasoline and alternative fuels. I have heard(no source at hand) that we burn my petroleum producing these alternative fuels, than just using the straight up gasoline.

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## HarryChiling

> The additional energy consumed in the manufacture of these lamps far exceeds the amount of power saved. So using them actually has a net increase in electricity consumed versus lumens of light provided. 
> 
> The higher cost of this product will offset anp savings on your electric bill.
> 
> That being said I suppose that it will make all of the tree huggers and global warming freaks happy.


Hey, watch it some tree huggers get offended by ignorance.  

Global Warming = TRUE

We are all responsible for the enviornment.  No one has the right to destroy it for the next guy.  If CF bulbs and LED bulbs help the enviornment, then why not use them.  Who cares which one is cheaper, because in the end how much are all the lives that are killed over in Iraq worth so that we can haphazardly waste our resources.

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## shanbaum

> Could be true? I've heard a similar argument about gasoline and alternative fuels. I have heard(no source at hand) that we burn my petroleum producing these alternative fuels, than just using the straight up gasoline.


Probably not true of CFL bulbs, considering that the dollar savings produced by the energy savings over a CFL's lifespan compared to incandescents greatly exceeds the cost the bulb.  Unless the manufacturer is buying energy _really_ cheaply, it's hard to see how rbaker's assertion could be true.

There are concerns related to the mercury content in flourescent bulbs, and the disposal thereof; but those are environmental costs, which I can't imagine rbaker being concerned about.

There was another thread in which it was pointed out that the total energy cost of producing and using hybrid vehicles is greater than that of traditionally-powered vehicles.  Even so, there may be a net environmental advantage (that is, the energy used to build the vehicle may come from sources that produce substantially less pollution than do internal combustion engines).

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## HarryChiling

We have the technology now to produce clean energy, we are just to selfish to make it work. Wind energy is cheap and free, but people don't want their views obstructed by wind farms so there is no place to put them. Solar panels have had great strides in the last few years, coupled with energy effiecient appliances your could actuallty start selling back the electricity you produce to the electric companies, but people don't want those unsightly panels on their roofs. People only get serious about alternative energy in times of crisis. Like when gas spikes at record high numbers, then it makes good sense to make hybrid vehicles and to look at ethanol and various other alternative fuels, but now that gas is back down again it's back to driving the SUV by yourself at 2 miles per gallon. It's just irresponsible. We switched to CF about 2 years ago and our electric bill has been tremendously reduced, we switched our thermostat to a programable and set it to heat the house only when we are home and we have our thermostat set to 65 which is 5 degrees lower than what we used to do. The savings are one part of the equation, the benefits to our enviornment is more important to me.

Also a 60 watt incandescent bulb can be replaced with a 15 watt CFL bulb, a 60 watt incandescent can be relaced by a 1.5 watt LED.  

incadescent = 60 watts
CFL = 15 watts
LED = 1.5 watts

average life of bulbs

incadescent = 1,000 hours
CFL = 10,000
LED = 60,000

incadescent = 60w * 60,000 hr = 3,600,000 / 1,000 = 3,600 kwh * $0.08 = $288.00
CFL = 15 w * 60,000 hr = 900,000 / 1,000 = 900 kwh * $0.08 = $72.00
LED = 1.5 w * 60,000 hr = 90,000 / 1,000 = 90 kwh * $0.08 = $7.20

Now lets factor in the cost of the bulbs.

incandescent = 60 bulbs @ $0.50 = $30.00
CFL = 6 bulbs @ $3.00 = $18.00
LED = 1 bulb @ $40.00 = $40.00

Now lets compare apples to apples 

incandescent = $30.00 + $288.00 = $318.00
CFL = $18.00 + $72.00 = $90.00
LED = $40.00 + $7.20 = 47.20

The Leds look good to me, it is hard to swallow about $40.00 per bulb, but wait untill you get all those electrical bills.

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## gemstone

I wish they made nuclear cars.

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## chip anderson

Actually to bulb life.  Discovery Science Channel claims that if our bulbs were made to the standards (forbidden by Federal Law) we could have incandescent bulbs that last forty years.

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## RT

> Actually to bulb life. Discovery Science Channel claims that if our bulbs were made to the standards (forbidden by Federal Law) we could have incandescent bulbs that last forty years.


Wow.  A single light bulb that could waste energy for 1/2 my expected life span.  Gosh, it's a dream come true--I'd never ever turn my magic light bulb off.  Why oh why do the dirty Feds deny me the unalienable American right to effortlessly waste energy.  I wonder if there's a black market for these bulbs just like there is for the old giga-gallon-flush toilets.  Chip, can you hook me up?

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## Spexvet

> Actually to bulb life. Discovery Science Channel claims that if our bulbs were made to the standards (forbidden by Federal Law) we could have incandescent bulbs that last forty years.


Can you please cite the federal law?

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## Bill West

....when I read at night I use a 3 way bulb and turn it to 150 watts. Easy reading and it is still cold outside got down to 7 the other day. Where is all this extra heat we keep hearing about? We could use some high in the mountains. I bought a few of the fluro bulbs and they lasted no time,expensive too. 
By the way, my trees are all doing o.k. also. Got some really biggins. Cut down four the other day to get a road all the way down to the river guess I really screwed up the enviroment,SORRY. The beavers cut down several guess nobody told them about tree hugging. Can't shoot them they are protected, no wonder it's getting so hot.:D

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## chip anderson

RT just heard this on Discovery Science Channel, don't know what the Federal Law (Regulation is) but bulbs can be obtained in Cannada have twice the filliament thickness, have thicker glass and can carry twice the voltage but will last 40 years on our 130 volts.   Supposedly fillement size, etc., in the U.S. is regulated.
I also wish we could get Absynthe in the U.S. so I could try it just one time, but we can't.   Our Govenment is out to protect us whether we want or need it or not.   And no, I can't site the Federal Law prohibiting Absynthe either.

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## orangezero

I don't think we can legally get LSD, stupid law, everybody should be able to try it right :)

I have some strange power problems in my house, and most of the filament bulbs that came with the house burnt out in the first month or so.  I replaced them with CF when they went on sale and never have had the same problem.  I've never had a CF bulb break, or heard of any of my friends bulbs breaking.  I doubt CF breakage is honestly a major concern.  Are there people that will profit from CF sales going through the roof, sure.  But there are people that profit from delivering babies and feeding the poor, too.

And as for limitations on incandescant bulbs, I'm sure there are some decent reasons besides the "guvenment" wanting to keep us all in the dark.  Its been a while since my college physics class, but wouldn't a larger filament require more energy, and probably cause more of that energy to be released as heat instead of light?  Think there could be some safety concerns as opposed to just trying to put the big filament light bulb makers out of business because the senator's son is selling small filament bulbs and wants a high turnover and less competition?

Tin foil hat's coming off now :)

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## chip anderson

You show get some strange ideas listening to communist broadcasts.
Go to something that can afford itself without taxpayer support and "donations."

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## HarryChiling

> I also wish we could get Absynthe in the U.S.


You can if you know the right people, I have 3 bottles in my house and trust me the stuff tastes like crap and you only get auditory hallucinations and you have to drink a butt load for that. I can also get some cuban cigars, and not the pre embargo crap (stale) they sell here in the states to the suckers.




> ....when I read at night I use a 3 way bulb and turn it to 150 watts. Easy reading and it is still cold outside got down to 7 the other day. Where is all this extra heat we keep hearing about? We could use some high in the mountains. I bought a few of the fluro bulbs and they lasted no time,expensive too. 
> By the way, my trees are all doing o.k. also. Got some really biggins. Cut down four the other day to get a road all the way down to the river guess I really screwed up the enviroment,SORRY. The beavers cut down several guess nobody told them about tree hugging. Can't shoot them they are protected, no wonder it's getting so hot.:D


There is a special place in hell for people like you Bill the good thing is you'll never have to worry about heat.

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## chip anderson

Don't know about PA beavers, but in Mississippi they pay a bounty in some counties for tails, pelts in others.  Damn things keep daming up the rivers, poking holes in dams, and in some places damaging tree crops.  We got plenty if you need some.

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## Pete Hanlin

I think its great that there are alternative light bulbs which can save energy.  A lot of hotels are using these fluorescent bulbs, and I really just don't like the color of light they produce.

So, while I still use my incandescent bulbs, I try to do my part by turning off the lights when I'm not in the room- which saves energy as well.  

Come to think of it, I stayed at the Marina Del Ray Marriott on Monday night, and they used the fluorescent bulbs...  of course, the fact that they leave the TV turned on to their hotel channel (so when you enter the room the TV is on) probably burns a bit more energy than the bulbs save!

Every week, my kids come home with more information on global warming...  I'm guessing they spend quite a lot of time discussing it in school.  My daughter is worried sick about the Polar Bears.  Of course, she tends to leave the lights on- so I asked her if they discussed how to reduce greenhouse gasses...  Her reply was _"the big oil companies need to clean up their act"_ (her exact language- hmmm, wonder where that came from).

I doesn't bother me that they discuss global warming in school, but it would be nice if there was some actual education- rather than the mere pushing of a political agenda.  My son actually annoyed his teacher when he had the audacity to ask if it wasn't true that _"the planet cools and warms in cycles"_ (hmmm, wonder where that came from :^).  

Again, I'm not suggesting the planet isn't getting warmer (although the planet will get warmer even without human activity- warmth tends to happen in periods between ice ages).  Nor am I suggesting that human behavior has no effect on the atmosphere (although scientists have yet to prove they are capable of predicting long term effects of atmospheric changes- right now the models they use have not been terribly accurate).  I'm not suggesting we shouldn't conserve energy either- I'm just weary of seeing commercials like the one in which a diesel locomotive bears down on a little girl with the suggestion that I'm going to kill my children if I do not immediately "reduce my carbon footprint."

BTW, "State of Fear" by Michael Chrighton (sp?) is a fun read (some interesting stats about global warming- although he does go a bit far in villianizing the "green community").

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