# Optical Forums > Optical and Ophthalmic Equipment >  Just want to complain about slipping

## Tallboy

I know there are a hundred threads like this, but I had two super hydro trivex lenses twist (pretty thin also!) on my today and its probably the first time in like 5 years.  I just had my Le1200 serviced also and all my wheels were lookin good.

The lenses were REALLY slick this time, but I used my favorite dynagrip xtreme pads + 3M LSE pads.

Ugh, I know there are a hundred threads about this but I just wanted to complain.  I saw nothin funky about film adhesion or blocking pad adhesion.  I'm going to just chalk this one up to "weird" but I HATE doing that.  Its been SO long since I had a twisted lens and I cut super hydro trivex trifocals for gosh sakes.

Maybe there was some kind of grease on the lens from the coating/surfacing lab? uggh

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## lensmanmd

> I know there are a hundred threads like this, but I had two super hydro trivex lenses twist (pretty thin also!) on my today and its probably the first time in like 5 years.  I just had my Le1200 serviced also and all my wheels were lookin good.
> 
> The lenses were REALLY slick this time, but I used my favorite dynagrip xtreme pads + 3M LSE pads.
> 
> Ugh, I know there are a hundred threads about this but I just wanted to complain.  I saw nothin funky about film adhesion or blocking pad adhesion.  I'm going to just chalk this one up to "weird" but I HATE doing that.  Its been SO long since I had a twisted lens and I cut super hydro trivex trifocals for gosh sakes.
> 
> Maybe there was some kind of grease on the lens from the coating/surfacing lab? uggh


Welcome to my world.  
All of the ARs that we produce have this ultraslick coating.  I have a pair that I made 6 months ago, and the Staedtler pen still wipes off without any chemicals!  And no, I have not refreshed the hydro since.  
We have trialed many solutions, and settled on the Quantum Frixion spray/3M LSE with the best overall success rate.  It is still not 100%, as we have lenses slip on occasion.  They even slip in my MEI....So, I am looking at Quantum's PadLock system as a solution.

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## Tallboy

thanks for responding. Yeah I may try that spray $95 for 4 oz sounds pricey though! 

Then again I burned way over $95 today ugh

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## lensmanmd

> thanks for responding. Yeah I may try that spray $95 for 4 oz sounds pricey though! 
> 
> Then again I burned way over $95 today ugh


Yup.  That bottle will treat 100 pairs, though.  Just make sure to let it dry completely.  Some of our slippage issues come from incomplete curing.  At 350+ pairs and 50% ARs, my staff get a little angstsy.

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## Don Gilman

> Yup.  That bottle will treat 100 pairs, though.  Just make sure to let it dry completely.  Some of our slippage issues come from incomplete curing.  At 350+ pairs and 50% ARs, my staff get a little angstsy.


Don't know any thing about the stuff you are referring to but I remember many years ago we used to brush on or spay on hydrosol and even used extra hold hair spray....for what it's worth.

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## dima

*@Tallboy* what about the life of your nidek pliable cup? I say it because today one in my hand..it seems in good shape but crack in the edger...I use them too much before replace :cry:  so... slipage... the pad was new.





> .......They even slip in my MEI....So, I am looking at Quantum's PadLock system as a solution.


 even with ezfit??? with slow mode? OMG. :Eek:  :Eek:  :Eek:  I see it in action at a fair this is a monster.



I'm only a newbie in front of you guys but I like learning I would say my 2 cents.

I don't know in U.S.A what the lab usually do...I think is the same... I Usually take uncut lenses from lab that do a special  antislip coating on it like essilor-style so you can edge good most of the time and remove the layer at the end of edging with soap or you can add a pad or spray yourself as standard

with my old weco for large/thin-trivex I need to cut down the lenses 2 times for slipage... cut down with a rough-cutter or edger... re-spot lens, blocking, and final edging... a nightmare but works.

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## Lensman11

The process used by 99% of labs today evolved from the European and Japanese model, the lab supplies uncut lenses to the retailer who edges them. I decided to break from the norm being we completed all jobs in lab. I hardcoated then edged then AR coated. I was told by every manufacturer that you can’t do that it won’t work. One year later and  about 300,000 lenses worth of data we had half the expected redo rate and lower costs. When AR coat edged lenses you can fit more lenses in the chamber per run so unit material costs drop. You can apply more Oleo and Hydro coating because you don’t have to worry about slipping in edging. High Hydro and Oleo mean less scratching and easier to clean which give less returns. 
Just because that is how you have doing doing a process doesn’t mean it is the best way.

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## Jay2390

I've got the LEX-1200 which looks very similar so I'm guessing your machine has similar functionality. Before anything else try using the 'soft' setting every time you edge Trivex. Since its edged dry there is a lot more friction being generated making it more likely for the lens to slip off axis. The soft setting uses a lighter setting so there is not as much pressure being put on the lens. I've done about 500+ trivex jobs so far this year using predominately Hoya's EX3 coating which is super slick. Additionally I use the adhesive stickers on both sides of the lens and haven't had any issues all year.  

If you look at the screen on the rig there are the 5 little buttons directly beneath it, the soft setting is the one that is furthest to the left. Once you've transferred the job info to the edger you press and hold that button for about 3 seconds to activate the 'soft' setting.

Hope that helps

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## Tallboy

> The process used by 99% of labs today evolved from the European and Japanese model, the lab supplies uncut lenses to the retailer who edges them. I decided to break from the norm being we completed all jobs in lab. I hardcoated then edged then AR coated. I was told by every manufacturer that you can’t do that it won’t work. One year later and  about 300,000 lenses worth of data we had half the expected redo rate and lower costs. When AR coat edged lenses you can fit more lenses in the chamber per run so unit material costs drop. You can apply more Oleo and Hydro coating because you don’t have to worry about slipping in edging. High Hydro and Oleo mean less scratching and easier to clean which give less returns. 
> Just because that is how you have doing doing a process doesn’t mean it is the best way.


How do your coatings hold up? I definitely have labs that will coat my uncoated finished lenses, but I wouldn't consider the coating to be the top of the line stuff I expect.  If you are offering to coat my lenses maybe you should pm me, if the end product is fantastic I may consider it.

And Jay2390 I appreciate your suggestions, but unfortunately this issue wouldn't have been fixed by any setting on the edger, I'm pretty well versed in the edger now.  I'm not joking when I said I hadn't had a slip in at least 3 years, maybe 5 if we aren't counting hydro coated segmented multifocals, my setup has worked pretty well (and most of those years were with a 9000) I have the hidden menu global settings set to precision and always use soft mode if it is AR coated. 

I use the 3M NR pads and dynagrip xtreme film and it has never failed me until this time.  They were EXTREMELY hydro lenses, I still can't figure it out, I have cut this coating a hundred times at least.  It did have those yellow PAL stamp markings on it, and these lenses usually don't have those type of markings on them.

I'm probably going to get a bottle of that spray for the future, but it hasn't happened again since so who knows.

Don Gilman I remember hearing about people using aquanet years ago, it sounds like a great technique!

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## Tallboy

Okay so I edged another pair with this same AR on it and same material.  I noticed this AR (which I have used many times before) left a residue on my fingers after touching it, almost like Pledge.  I washed the lenses in Dawn before marking them up and edging them.  Perfect.  Seems like there must be some loose hydro on the lenses after they coat them, maybe it is by design but I doubt it.  Oh well at least I know my process is working and it was the particular lens that was the issue.  Phew!

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## dima

Happy for you tallboy.

Maybe they apply a removable antislip top coating on the ar like crizal lenses and this batch went wrong and does the opposite? who know.

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## fundy

are you still having slippage issues with your le1200? if so do you have it paired to a ice mini? Have you tried cutting under soft mode?

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## Tallboy

> are you still having slippage issues with your le1200? if so do you have it paired to a ice mini? Have you tried cutting under soft mode?


All of the issues were occuring on softmode with ice mini blocking in passive. It only happened a few times with a particular AR from a particular lab. 

I ended up cleaning the front sides of the lens prior to edging with tape and the problems went away.  I have very low slippage rates in general, so thats why I was so weirded out because I hadn't changed my own process, nor did I start using a different AR than previously. 

I think someone was wiping the uncuts with extra hydro before shipping them off. Probably something they usually did with finished lenses, a quick soap and water wash and the problem went away. 

That employee obviously is not doing it anymore also because I haven't recieved uncuts that make my fingers feel like they have silicon gel on them when I touch them.

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## Tallboy

> Welcome to my world.  
> All of the ARs that we produce have this ultraslick coating.  I have a pair that I made 6 months ago, and the Staedtler pen still wipes off without any chemicals!  And no, I have not refreshed the hydro since.  
> We have trialed many solutions, and settled on the Quantum Frixion spray/3M LSE with the best overall success rate.  It is still not 100%, as we have lenses slip on occasion.  They even slip in my MEI....So, I am looking at Quantum's PadLock system as a solution.


ARRRGH I had it happen again today.  So many lenses with no problem.  Just bought some of that spray I wish I had when you first told me to.  Uggh.  Oh well.  Did you ever get the padlock system?

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## lensmanmd

> ARRRGH I had it happen again today.  So many lenses with no problem.  Just bought some of that spray I wish I had when you first told me to.  Uggh.  Oh well.  Did you ever get the padlock system?


Sorry buddy.  Crazy times.  
We are on a replacement Padlock.  We had some issues with the first build.  This new build is doing the trick.  It does run through Argon, though.  Slippage has reduced, even on the 7EXs.  Due to the backlog, staffing and COVID workflows, it is a bit difficult to determine mechanical vs human error, however.  I do see that slippage spoilage has been reduced, though.    
Once I get real time to review and dissect my spoilage reports, i can get back to you on this.  I do, however, like the fact that i have less flammable chemicals in the workplace with the Padlock.

Stay safe, my friend.

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