# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  Essilor vs. Hoya

## gc2016

Hi all,

We’ve been with Essilor for years but recently consider to go with Hoya for Hi-index lens. Please be kind to give us your suggestions.

What’s the best option for 1st time PAL users and what lens type will you recommend? 

If the PT has a high RX SPH over -7.00 and add -2.50, What lens will you suggest?

For night time driving, What PAL lens and coating will you recommend?

Thanks a lot for your time!

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## Robert_S

Maybe it's different, in the US, but Hoya in the UK are really good quality, and ethically better to deal with than essilor. 
Best first lens is usually the Lifestyle 3 and they do a lens called enroute for night driving. 

Why only high index??

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## gc2016

Thank you, Robert. 


SV Hi-index 1.74 is back-ordered in ES lab until mid-March or maybe even May in our area. And PAL 1.74 has been unavailable since last December.

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## Chris Ryser

> *Weve been with Essilor for years but recently consider to go with Hoya for Hi-index lens. Please be kind to give us your suggestions*.



................why nor keep staying with Essilor who soon will be your only supplier left anyhow.

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## bta89

gc2016, why do you guys use 1.74 over 1.67. I've noticed that most of the time the thickness difference between the two is very minimal. There are a few exceptions where 1.74 beats out 1.67, but then again it does cost more. Just curious. We don't do any 1.74 lens here, all the high index that we use is 1.67. HOYA has the clarity and harmony in the ID lifestyle. The clarity is suppose to be better for first time progressive wearers and the harmony is suppose to be better for normal wearers. I have put a few people in the ID Mystyle with great success. I don't have much on the lifestyle 3 yet.

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## AngeHamm

> gc2016, why do you guys use 1.74 over 1.67. I've noticed that most of the time the thickness difference between the two is very minimal. There are a few exceptions where 1.74 beats out 1.67, but then again it does cost more. Just curious. We don't do any 1.74 lens here, all the high index that we use is 1.67. HOYA has the clarity and harmony in the ID lifestyle. The clarity is suppose to be better for first time progressive wearers and the harmony is suppose to be better for normal wearers. I have put a few people in the ID Mystyle with great success. I don't have much on the lifestyle 3 yet.


At my power (-9.50) there is a substantial difference in thickness between 1.67 and 1.74.

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## Robert_S

He/she is right though, with the exception of very high powers, 1.67 is usually the best choice.

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## Kwill212

> At my power (-9.50) there is a substantial difference in thickness between 1.67 and 1.74.


What do you consider "substantial"? I doubt more than a millimeter right? Unless you have a big head and a small PD, necessitating a big decentered lens. Can any layperson tell the difference between a lens that is 9.5mm and 8.5mm in thickness?  I hardly ever go above 1.60 index these days, and use trivex for most jobs. Unless someone demands a poorly fit frame in a high Rx, I can't see any reason to do otherwise.

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## Robert_S

Same.

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## IIxIPariahIxII

Wow? Essilor is *still* backordered for the 1.74? At least they have an idea of a time frame though. I joined a private practice not too long after it happened and they had no idea how long it was going to be. For the progressives, I definitely like the Hoya portfolio better. More fluid options for your patients. I've actually had success taking patients from the Varilux X and fitting them with the Lifestyle 3. I also prefer the Recharge over Crizal Prevencia. The filter is too yellowed in the Prevencia. I do like the adaptability of the Varilux X, but with the Lifestyle 3 and the MyStyle, I think it fills that need pretty well.

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## gc2016

> gc2016, why do you guys use 1.74 over 1.67. I've noticed that most of the time the thickness difference between the two is very minimal. There are a few exceptions where 1.74 beats out 1.67, but then again it does cost more. Just curious. We don't do any 1.74 lens here, all the high index that we use is 1.67. HOYA has the clarity and harmony in the ID lifestyle. The clarity is suppose to be better for first time progressive wearers and the harmony is suppose to be better for normal wearers. I have put a few people in the ID Mystyle with great success. I don't have much on the lifestyle 3 yet.


Thank you, bta89. 

We do lots of 1.67, 1.60 and Trivex. Some patients in our area have high power and require 1.74 aspheric lenses. Their PD is less than 62mm but the lens size is bigger than 55mm.

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## gc2016

> Wow? Essilor is *still* backordered for the 1.74? At least they have an idea of a time frame though. I joined a private practice not too long after it happened and they had no idea how long it was going to be. For the progressives, I definitely like the Hoya portfolio better. More fluid options for your patients. I've actually had success taking patients from the Varilux X and fitting them with the Lifestyle 3. I also prefer the Recharge over Crizal Prevencia. The filter is too yellowed in the Prevencia. I do like the adaptability of the Varilux X, but with the Lifestyle 3 and the MyStyle, I think it fills that need pretty well.


Thank you! IIxIPariahIxII.

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## gc2016

> He/she is right though, with the exception of very high powers, 1.67 is usually the best choice.


Yes. We like to use 1.67 for Sunglasses and big lenses.

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## gc2016

> At my power (-9.50) there is a substantial difference in thickness between 1.67 and 1.74.


Yes. Higher numbers bigger difference.

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## IIxIPariahIxII

> Thank you! IIxIPariahIxII.


No problem. :) One thing to keep in mind though is they don't have a lot of 1.74 options, especially with the progressives, right now. But like previously stated, there's not a ton of difference in the thickness between 1.67 and 1.74 unless you're in the higher end minuses. Especially in progressives. Part of that is the newly minted MyStyle and Lifestyle 3 lenses. Like VSP, they have digital single vision options as well. And their EX3 AR coat is as good if not better than Crizal Sapphire. Most places around here don't even offer Sapphire. Avance is their best offered AR. And the cost is less both for the patient and for us.

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## gc2016

> No problem. :) One thing to keep in mind though is they don't have a lot of 1.74 options, especially with the progressives, right now. But like previously stated, there's not a ton of difference in the thickness between 1.67 and 1.74 unless you're in the higher end minuses. Especially in progressives. Part of that is the newly minted MyStyle and Lifestyle 3 lenses. Like VSP, they have digital single vision options as well. And their EX3 AR coat is as good if not better than Crizal Sapphire. Most places around here don't even offer Sapphire. Avance is their best offered AR. And the cost is less both for the patient and for us.


Noted. Thanks again! IIxIPariahIxII.

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## AngeHamm

1.74 is also much more fragile than 1.67. I generally restrict my recommendation of 1.74 to RXes of -8.00 or higher. And many labs will not drill 1.74 under any circumstances, or at best they will not honor any warranty on a drilled 1.74.

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## Browman

Do NOT get involved with Hoya. We did and four years later it’s still one of the biggest regrets of my life. I’m about to run out the door but when I saw some poor soul was about to make the same mistake we did I had to jump in. I can go into more detail later but a quick search of my posting history here will take you to some horror stories. For as hasn’t as you may think Easilor is, Hoya is worse.

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## Uncle Fester

> Do NOT get involved with Hoya. We did and four years later its still one of the biggest regrets of my life. Im about to run out the door but when I saw some poor soul was about to make the same mistake we did I had to jump in. I can go into more detail later but a quick search of my posting history here will take you to some horror stories. For as hasnt as you may think Easilor is, Hoya is worse.


 I'm dealing with 2 Hoya labs. One is in Windsor Connecticut the other is run by Luxottica in Texas. Lifestyle 2 Harmony and Summit ecp and ecp iQ with very high success rates.

My mom always said if you can't say anything nice about someone don't say anything at all.

The Windsor lab and lenses are fine.

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## AngeHamm

> I'm dealing with 2 Hoya labs. One is in Windsor Connecticut the other is run by Luxottica in Texas. Lifestyle 2 Harmony and Summit ecp and ecp iQ with very high success rates.
> 
> My mom always said if you can't say anything nice about someone don't say anything at all.
> 
> The Windsor lab and lenses are fine.


All of their Lifestyle 2 lenses are frickin great.

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## jefe

> I'm dealing with 2 Hoya labs. One is in Windsor Connecticut.
> 
> The Windsor lab and lenses are fine.


+1

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## curtains1

Any thoughts on the amplitude? I know it is a step down from the Lifestyle, but what about customers on a budget?

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## bta89

I would probably say that the amplitude is on par with the Essilor Ovation lens. Maybe a slight level below the Comfort 2. It's somewhere around there. I noticed this week that the Lifestyle 3 is out and about. Anyone  have a pair that would like to share their experience with it.

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## bretk0923

> Any thoughts on the amplitude? I know it is a step down from the Lifestyle, but what about customers on a budget?


We work a lot with HOYA, and have a lot of success with their lenses. That being said, we have had very little success with Amplitude. The big thing to remember is that Amplitude is a 2mm drop instead of 4mm like most other PALs. For some reason, even setting the distance fitting cross lower than normal doesn't seem to help. For customers on a budget, I'd stay away and pick something else similar that fits like other PALs. 




> I noticed this week that the Lifestyle 3 is out and about. Anyone  have a pair that would like to share their experience with it.


Lifestyle 3 fits similarly to Lifestyle 2, except they've added another design to the portfolio. The way I understood it, IDLS2 Clarity was a slightly softer design with more emphasis on distance zones, and Harmony was a slightly harder design with more emphasis on near zones.

For IDLS3, they've translated thse same lens designs to the new portfolio, calling them "Indoor" and "Outdoor". They've also introduced "Urban", which is supposed to be more balanced between the two and more focused on customers who use digital devices. Think Shamir In-Touch, but compensated.

EDIT: We've dispensed quite a few, and had a good deal of success. It's still relatively new though, but really not any issues thus far. I would say that it is on par with all the newest digital designs (Varilux's X-Series, Shamir's Autograph Intelligence, etc).

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## lensmanmd

We sold a lot of Amplitude over the years with a lot of success.  The Summit was another, though a bit more expensive.  Our issue was with backorders.  We sell a lot of Photochromics, and Hoya just couldn't deliver, even after their flood recovery in Thailand.   
Then, we went full FF and have not looked back.  
That said, the Amplitude, IMO is a solid budget PAL.  Caveat, we never relied on other labs, as we processed them in house.  And please, do not compare 2, 4 and 6 drops.  If the fit is correct, the drop doesn't matter.   

Andrew Hamm - there is a 0.5mm difference in thickness between 1.74 and 1.67 in an average 72mm frame PD with an average 62mm PD, BTW.  ABBE is better in 1.67 than 1.74.  I would say that this is not a 'significant' difference.

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## bretk0923

> And please, do not compare 2, 4 and 6 drops.  If the fit is correct, the drop doesn't matter.


Thanks for calling this out. A 2mm drop is definitely not BAD, but rather needs to be fit and managed DIFFERENTLY. 

We used this lens a bit more recently when VSP came out with their "Standard Progressive" coverage back in August for those who wanted "only what the insurance covers". The corridor drop difference was a small detail not taken into consideration when we started dispensing it more frequently, and we had a rash of non-adapts and changes because we were managing the lens the same as all of our other PALs.

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## curtains1

I was told by the rep just to use the harmony for people that have worn progressives before and clarity for people who have never worn progressives before. I suspected what was said though. Thanks. Some times the explanations from reps are rather muddy. 
Also, why does the seg drop matter or not matter? Does it have to do with where the add starts?
Will the patient notice if they go from a 2 to a 4? (lets say with identical corridors) 
Sorry if it is a stupid question but I am here to learn from the masters.

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## IIxIPariahIxII

Yeah, the new Lifestyle 3 lenses have a third option in the portfolio. Clarity offers a smoother and larger mapping for distance, and the Harmony does the same but for the reading. Their new lenses are the Outdoor (Clarity) and the Indoor (Harmony) while the Urban gives a more mapped fit for every day on the go. So you expand in all areas a bit more, but not as much as the focal types listed above. We've had great success with Hoya, even when dealing with the Lux labs.

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## curtains1

Thank you, yes the urban is in the MyStyle now I think too. There are four options in the Mystyle. One for distance, one for near, one for more intermediate and digital, and one balanced. I think anyway. 
I saw someone started a different thread on seg drop. I'm going to check it out.

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## Joke1901

In my experience, frame matters...you need to make sure that the frame is not too big and the right shape. Even if you choose the thinnest lens and if your frame is huge, your lens will be thick.

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## cowboytelemark

> Any thoughts on the amplitude? I know it is a step down from the Lifestyle, but what about customers on a budget?


I average selling 3 pairs of Amplitude BKS (backside digital) daily, and we are a small optical.  Excellent adaptation rate for both new and old presbyopes.  I have NOT had great adaptation rates with the Harmony, and I now put people in the Clarity exclusively at that price point with better success.  We will see how the IDLS3 renditions fare.  The Array is just OK.

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