# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  Help! :  Essilor vs. Hoya (Company Comparison)

## jczelust

Greetings,

I am the manager of an office in Austin, Tx.  We are in a 'buying-group' that has used Essilor Laboratories for the better part of 15 years.  Our agreement is coming to an end in a few months and the Board is going to take a vote on whether to continue our arrangement with Essilor or go with Hoya.  Obviously money is playing a part of this but I am not willing to sacrifice quality and the customer service I have received for this many years for a paltry few dollars.

So I have come to you all to hear about your experience if you have used Hoya.  If you have used both I would love to hear a comparison.  I will relay the information gathered here to the Board.  Thank you so much for your time.

How is there turnaround time on average (include all jobs)?


How is there customer service?


How is the quality of their progressive lenses (from Summit to ID)?


Any other thoughts?

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## Stan Tabor

This is like a Yankees versus Red Sox argument.  I have had good and bad experiences with both.  Generally, it comes down to the individual lab you are using.  Some Hoya customers swear by their product and have tremendous loyalty (like the Red Sox fans).  Essilor fans are more plentiful but sometimes less knowledgable (like the Yankee fans).

My advice is to get quotes from both.  If Essior is comparable or lower and you are happy then stay put.  The other option is to have an arrangement with both labs.  Assuming your groups volume is significant enough, you should be able to get decent pricing at bo'th labs and then let your members determine which they want to use.  

And I hope I did not offend any Yankee or Red Sox fans.  I am a national league guy.

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## jczelust

...Cardinals fan here and I definitely understand where you are coming from.  I have received a lot of support from Essilor at my particular office.  My reps provide great continuing education for my staff and help with things that are not necessarily in their job description.  I have been very happy with Essilor but I believe price wise that they can not compete with Hoya.  So I am trying to see if the juice is worth the squeeze.

I do not believe there will be a choice of "both" for whatever reason.  It is all or nothing.  

How is Hoya's turnaround time and customer service?

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## chip anderson

According to the sales reps.  Whatever company they work for is the best.    Contiuing education from either is a slip for having sat through a sales pitch.   Maybe this meets the definition of _education._

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## Jacqui

I would have to go with Hoya because I really don't like E. Why don't you also check the independents?? Most can give you the same product at the same price with better service and better quality.

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## Java99

The practice I'm in is part of a buying group that has agreements with both.

To answer your questions: 

1: Turnaround time will vary by which Hoya or ELOA lab you choose.  

2: Customer service will vary according to who your rep is for each company.  There were huge Hoya Dallas issues last year and we quit using them, because the rep didn't care.  Part of how Hoya earned us back was by showing up for a visit, taking a problem ELOA job off my desk and hand-carrying it back to Hoya.  New rep, new service, and I'm doing a lot more Hoya now.  I'm stuck in a contract with ELOA, but hopefully that will not be renewed. 

3: PAL quality--Hoya wins, but honestly, E has good lenses too.  

I would choose based on which company will support your business better.  Who will not directly compete with you by taking their product directly to the consumer?  Think about the future.

3:

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## WFruit

The is no lens that I can get from Essilor that I can't get from another company for a lower cost and usually better quality.

I have found Hoya's progressives to be superior accross the board, especially in the Free Form catagory.

Also, in going with Hoya, they can and will still supply you with Essilor lenses if need be.

Lastly, as Jacqui said, check out the independent labs.  Most will offer you a wider selection of products for equal or better pricing and usually better service.

My final vote: Hoya.

Although, your poll asks which is a better company, which really is a different question than which has better labs and products.

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## jczelust

I appreciate everybody's response thus far.  I am surprised to see Hoya winning the poll.  But I guess we all have a different reference point which is why I was reaching out in the first place.

I know and understand that service and turnaround time varies by laboratory, but I wanted to hear YOUR experience.  How is YOUR lab doing on turn around times and customer service?  

(Java we would be using Hoya-Dallas.  So they have been excellent as of late?)

I can't go with an Independent.  It is not being discussed by the powers that be. 

Thanks again for the help...please keep the experiences coming.

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## eyemanflying

go with Hoya - you will never look back...

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## SailorEd

If you ask me, Zeiss outshines both of them, as do their labs. Do yourself a favor and "investigate" Zeiss' "OD Excellence" program. You just might find that it offers superior benefits that this "buying group" can't even compete with.

Hoya Dallas used to be Benedict Optical and it was really great.  Then Hoya took over and we saw a very severe decline in quality.  We had a remote tracer and the percentage of jobs that had to be returned to be redone was unacceptable.  Went from there to Hoya Cleveland, same thing.  Then to Hoya Chicago, same thing.  Then Benedict's Daughter opened up Legends 4.0 lab in Lewisville, Tx and it was great until they sold out to VSP.  

Now, we're at Zeiss Kentucky and it is a great lab.  Very customer service oriented and I am personally happy with them (being the perfectionist that I am).  Excellent work and very good product (Hoya and Essilor don't even come close to the "Individual").  

As I said, do yourself a favor and investigate what the OD Excellence program from Zeiss can offer your practice.

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## Barry Santini

My Hoya experience mirrors yours, as far as thickness and layout, and I have a tracer. I like the desin of the Hoya lenses, though. I especially like the IQST28 bifocal.

Zeiss KY is good, but I've also had problems in the past with thickness. The 1.74s, made in Germany, are no problem.

B

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## tdj

We use Hoya Dallas for glass and have a LOT of issues with lenses coming in the wrong size

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## David_Garza

> We use Hoya Dallas for glass and have a LOT of issues with lenses coming in the wrong size


We use them too for over 5 years and have never had this issue.  We love them and recomend them often especially to those addicted or enslaved to E-

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## oxmoon

> My Hoya experience mirrors yours, as far as thickness and layout, and I have a tracer.
> 
> Zeiss KY is good, but I've also had problems in the past with thickness. The 1.74s, made in Germany, are no problem.
> 
> B


 
How long does it take to get the Zeiss 1.74 from Germany?

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## Java99

Hoya Dallas has been excellent for us since we started using them again, maybe since December?  Service, quality, all good.  Every lab has hiccups, but when we call about ours, they are dealt with promptly.

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## MarySue

> Greetings,
> 
> I am the manager of an office in Austin, Tx.  We are in a 'buying-group' that has used Essilor Laboratories for the better part of 15 years.  Our agreement is coming to an end in a few months and the Board is going to take a vote on whether to continue our arrangement with Essilor or go with Hoya.  Obviously money is playing a part of this but I am not willing to sacrifice quality and the customer service I have received for this many years for a paltry few dollars.


It's sad when a financial arrangement limits what you are able to dispense to a patient.  Both companies have lenses which are excellent, and many patients adapt well to one or the other, but not both.

Why can't the "Board" decide to make an arrangement with both?

Poor patients ... we keep limiting their options and expecting them to simply struggle through.

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## tdj

> Hoya Dallas has been excellent for us since we started using them again, maybe since December?  Service, quality, all good.  Every lab has hiccups, but when we call about ours, they are dealt with promptly.


Just today I got a pair in from them -- too big AND crooked segs. I don't mean a little crooked. I mean a full 3 mm drop from one to the other and a good ten degrees off from being straight.

I really don't know what their problem with us is, but every other pair of lenses I get from them -- JUST them -- has an issue. I really don't understand. Thank God we don't do much glass (all we use them for)

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## Chris Ryser

Large corporation owned optical laboratories are in a totally unfair position when you want to compare them against each other or even against privately owned ones.

These days they all or at least most of them are equipped with the latest technology machinery and equipment and should supply only top notch work on any lens material they touch, finish and produce.

If you like or hate the owner company or corporation has nothing to do with the final quality touch the lab is supplying to their customers. You might just maybe have a tougher opinion opinion if you personally dislike the owning corporation, or even if you're in love with them.

It all has to do with motivating the employees properly and continuously week in and week out. It is the local management that has to make the employees be fully at their job and dreaming of who is going to win tomorrows "Power ball" lottery. 

If segments on bifocals are delivered way off axis there are already 3 or 4 people involved in that stage of the work. From the person that operates the bevel edgers to the ones that insert the lenses into the frames and the final check on the lensometers. All of them have seen the crooked segment lines and still passed the job on to the next stage.

If you are old enough you remember the saying "do not buy a car made on a Friday or a Monday", because the workers were not in a quality working mood.

When an owner is actively working in an optical lab he sees the ups or downs in his production and can immediately take care of it, while corporation owned management might suffer under lack of motivation it should pass on to their employees.

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## tntborden

> Part of how Hoya earned us back was by showing up for a visit, taking a problem ELOA job off my desk and hand-carrying it back to Hoya. New rep, new service, and I'm doing a lot more Hoya now.


Hmmm...  I have the same rep and I haven't seen her once this year

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## ThatOneGuy

> Greetings,
> 
> I am the manager of an office in Austin, Tx.  We are in a 'buying-group' that has used Essilor Laboratories for the better part of 15 years.  Our agreement is coming to an end in a few months and the Board is going to take a vote on whether to continue our arrangement with Essilor or go with Hoya.  Obviously money is playing a part of this but I am not willing to sacrifice quality and the customer service I have received for this many years for a paltry few dollars.
> 
> So I have come to you all to hear about your experience if you have used Hoya.  If you have used both I would love to hear a comparison.  I will relay the information gathered here to the Board.  Thank you so much for your time.
> 
> How is there turnaround time on average (include all jobs)?
> 
> 
> ...


Turn around time:  Equal

Customer Service:  Essilor tends to have better trained customer service reps (the first person to answer the phone)

Quality of Progressives:  Hoya's designs win hands down from the unbranded to the premium branded.  Just don't expect the prettiest looking "finished" product.

Other Thoughts:  
1)  Zeiss has better product, but the sales reps are only equivalent or slightly better than an Essilor rep (Read: "You will know the latest company line, guaranteed").  Short of Darryl, if you don't understand something technical, don't expect to find the answer inside of a Zeiss lab.  

2)  Zeiss has some amazing entry programs that your board may find enticing.  However, no matter who you choose, you need to monitor your numbers, such as warranty remakes, to see if you are actually improving the business or if it just feels better.  

3)  Get out of the buying group.  Buying groups tie your hands.  If you work for a place large enough for a board of directors, you are doing enough business to negotiate heavily with the labs yourself.  Essilor will be eager to keep you, and Hoya will want to woo you, but neither one can try if you are tied to the buying group.

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## Java99

> Hmmm...  I have the same rep and I haven't seen her once this year


This actually happened just when she was coming on, and her regional boss was with her.  He took the job off my desk.  We do see her about once a month now and she is keeping the promise he made.

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## BMH

A better overall company would be Essilor. They bring in big dollars for their shareholders.

Now seeing is thats not what you meant. I think it really depends on the individual lab not the company. I think Hoya has great progressives but their brand trivex and their hi index lenses turn yellow after a couple of years of wearing. I can't say I've had that issue with Essilor. I'm in Florida and Hoya Largo has great customer service but there finish work was sloppy to the point that I had to drop them. I switched to an independant lab (ICare in Clearwater) for our uncut work and they are great but they also lack in finishing work. Crooked segs mainly. Icare kicked everyones butt when it came to price so if that is a big motivator look them up.

For the jobs that we choose to have someone else edge we send to Milroy(Essilor) and they do a good job. I rarley reject stuff from them but their price is higher. Get what you pay for I guess, imagine that! On the flip side of that, I know of opticians in Florida that tell me Milroy loses jobs/sends them God knows where all the time but I have never had one go missing.

My other observation in Florida atleast, was Hoya was the most expensive lab I priced out. Even with their max discount for volume most any lab could beat them if I was shopping for price alone.

I guess my point is... It all depends on the circumstances YOU are dealing with.

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## DragonLensmanWV

One point to consider: which company is going to take your money,then compete directly against you to shut you out of business?

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## David_Garza

> One point to consider: which company is going to take your money,then compete directly against you to shut you out of business?


 
Which is reason #1 why I won't even consider ever doing business with one of the two choices.....

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## AngeHamm

> How long does it take to get the Zeiss 1.74 from Germany?


Mine took five weeks. I was promised four, but one of them was Christmas, so it's all good.

Crispest vision I have ever experienced (once I adjusted the frame wrap).

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## Framebender

We used to use both, but have since dropped Hoya. Our experience with Hoya Dallas was a nightmare. Breakages with no notification. Problems that sat on someones desk for more than a week with no notification. Then there is their policy of not even looking at a job until they get the frame. (VSP job where the frame was signed for on one day and not entered into their system for another 4 days. Then 4 days later they tell us there is a problem. 7 working days and no one has even pulled blanks!) Hoya San Diego is a good lab, but we just decided that they were more problems than they were worth.

If you are here in Austin we have a new rep that they brought in from West Texas. The one's we used to have were good, but one was moved to key accounts and the other one quit to work for a different lab. Kind of made me wonder.  I honestly don't know anything about the new rep either good or bad!

Good luck to you!!

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## For-Life

I really wish these companies would come up and provide the same stock selection as Essilor.  Stock Club and RX Club are so inexpensive that getting a lens from a lab.  The Essilor Stock selection is huge compared to the competitors.

For instance, take Trivex.  I do not know if this has changed over the last few years, but it was impossible to get Stock Trivex with Super Hi.  I could get Hi Vision or their slip coat, but not the main AR.  So I would have to surface it.  I could replace it with 1.5, poly or 1.6 from Essilor for 10% to 25% of the cost.  Even their stock lenses, since they went through labs, were at least twice the price than I would have got from Essilor.

In is unfortunate, because there are good arguments for why you should not deal with Essilor.  The problem is that I feel the competitors are lazy.  In this thread, we are all talking about PALs and customer service.  Yes, PALs are the big purchases, but we still do a lot of stock.  Why these companies have not come through on that is a joke.

And telling me that your 3rd tier coating is comparable to your 1st tier really does not make your product look good.

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## RT

> I do not know if this has changed over the last few years, but it was impossible to get Stock Trivex with Super Hi.


HOYA Phoenix (Trivex) has been available in stock FSV with SHV in US and Canada for over 2 years.

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## For-Life

Ok thanks.  Like I said, I was not sure if it had changed.

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## tntborden

> We used to use both, but have since dropped Hoya. Our experience with Hoya Dallas was a nightmare. Breakages with no notification. Problems that sat on someones desk for more than a week with no notification. Then there is their policy of not even looking at a job until they get the frame. (VSP job where the frame was signed for on one day and not entered into their system for another 4 days. Then 4 days later they tell us there is a problem. 7 working days and no one has even pulled blanks!) Hoya San Diego is a good lab, but we just decided that they were more problems than they were worth.
> 
> If you are here in Austin we have a new rep that they brought in from West Texas. The one's we used to have were good, but one was moved to key accounts and the other one quit to work for a different lab. Kind of made me wonder. I honestly don't know anything about the new rep either good or bad!
> 
> Good luck to you!!


+1

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## listenclose23

I have used both companies and in my mind there is no comparison...Hoya by a landslide.  You get a better product at a better price and the service has been impeccable. They have great rewards programs and spend their capital in research and development instead of marketing. The new SummitIQ have received great accolades from my patients and they now have a super individualized progressive called MyStyle. Their ARs are in my opinion the best hands down and their warranties are amazing. I cant believe the poll is this close but the big hand of essilor has hypnotized many in the biz. Hope this helps..and btw we use Hoya Atl, they have had the same staff forever, the turn around time is super fast, and the % of remakes is very low (this says alot if you knew how closely we inspect each job).

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## listenclose23

> If you ask me, Zeiss outshines both of them, as do their labs. Do yourself a favor and "investigate" Zeiss' "OD Excellence" program. You just might find that it offers superior benefits that this "buying group" can't even compete with.
> 
> Hoya Dallas used to be Benedict Optical and it was really great.  Then Hoya took over and we saw a very severe decline in quality.  We had a remote tracer and the percentage of jobs that had to be returned to be redone was unacceptable.  Went from there to Hoya Cleveland, same thing.  Then to Hoya Chicago, same thing.  Then Benedict's Daughter opened up Legends 4.0 lab in Lewisville, Tx and it was great until they sold out to VSP.  
> 
> Now, we're at Zeiss Kentucky and it is a great lab.  Very customer service oriented and I am personally happy with them (being the perfectionist that I am).  Excellent work and very good product (Hoya and Essilor don't even come close to the "Individual").  
> 
> As I said, do yourself a favor and investigate what the OD Excellence program from Zeiss can offer your practice.


 Zeiss does not offer trivex ...when I first took over here we used a Zeiss lab, great products..good service...but no trivex

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## WFruit

I'm very surprised the poll is tied (with all due respect to Pete Hanlin, I'm discounting his vote because he works for Essilor). I guess it's because it's about whose labs are better, as opposed to whose lenses are better......

GO INDPENDENTS!!!  :Cool:

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## Uilleann

That's a HIGHLY subjective subject on the quality of lenses as well.

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## rtyszko

I will weigh in here.  I am part of that same "buying group" I'm guessing, if the initials are V.S., then I am.  I'm in the midst of comparing prices between similar products from Essilor and HOYA.  I'd say that, as part of the buying group, the HOYA prices are better and their rewards program is better.  I have two large practices that have a lot of experience with both companies and they choose HOYA when they can.  In our area, New England, apparently there are no HOYA lab issues.

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## KStraker

I don't have a clue what that one guy was talking about when he said that Hoya doesn't have the prettiest looking product. We do a bunch of work with Hoya Atlanta and the finished product is top shelf. The lab will provide overnight shipping labels. Why would you be confined to the Dallas branch?

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## tntborden

I’ve noticed on the job board, Hoya Dallas has an opening in customer service.  “no experience required”

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## specs2see

personally and for whats it is worth. i dont care for either one. i would much rather give my business to one of the mom and pop labs. (which are fading into the sunset) you will get more personal service. sometimes better prices because thier mark up is smaller and most often better quality work. lets face it. we can all surface any name brand lens. however if you process 50 jobs a day as oppossed to 500. who is going to do the better work? the down side to a private lab is the turnaround time. they will not have in house AR labs and may not have huge amounts of stock on the shelves. but i have experienced slim stock with the "E" lab i use. but you will get the personal care of the small labs that you will never see with the big fish. all a matter of opinion. and we get to help support family owned business that the sharks have taken over.. choice is yours

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## specs2see

and as far as the poll. which lab is better, Hoya or Essilor. we need a "NEITHER BUTTON"

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