# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  Tint Samples - what do you keep on hand?

## KrystleClear

So, my shop has no tint samples on hand whatsoever to show patients during the sale. I had a patient last week specifically request a 20% brown gradient tint, but rejected them during the dispense for being too dark. We do not tint in house (our workspace is small and there is no room for a tint tank/neutralizer). This kind of thing is why I wish we had samples to give patients an idea of what a tint may look like.

I'm going to order some from our lab as well as a tint display tray. I just wanted to see what you all keep on hand for demonstration? Definitely getting an 80% gray, 80% brown. I was thinking for yellow/amber, blue, and pink to order a 20% or 30% of each. Does that seem reasonable? I would like to get an FL-41 sample as well but have never sold it - can it be ordered in different percentages or does it need to be a certain percentage? Should I get any samples in a gradient? Do you keep any fun tint samples on hand, like a darker blue, red, or purple? I am trying to think back to what we had at the last office a worked for, but it's been a few years.

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## Quince

It is always best to have physical samples of tints, mirrors, ARs, pretty much anything that can give the patient an idea of what they are asking for. That being said- I always describe tinting as comparable to dying an Easter egg. It is not an exact replica, especially if you are looking at materials outside of CR39. When it comes to polarization, mirrors, and AR it is a little easier because the samples are true. 

It sounds like you are on the right track for what you need- you can limit options to the samples you have in stock or let the patient know they can request a variation but that you don't have a way of providing a sample first.

Our shop has a ridiculous amount of samples because we make whatever we want in house or order out but often send a sample. It is a luxury, but one I would prefer not to have because of the toxicity of the dyes and heat transfer fluid when heated (OSHA take notice). Often times, you can get a good amount of samples for free if you are using a particular brand. Also if your lab is using a specific supplier for things like mirrors, you can usually get a decent idea of coloring from their website. We use OptiCote mirrors and their online pics are fairly true. 

http://www.opticote.com/mirror-coating.php

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## KrystleClear

I like the Easter egg explanation!

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## Mauro.Airoldi

> So, my shop has no tint samples on hand whatsoever to show patients during the sale. I had a patient last week specifically request a 20% brown gradient tint, but rejected them during the dispense for being too dark. We do not tint in house (our workspace is small and there is no room for a tint tank/neutralizer). This kind of thing is why I wish we had samples to give patients an idea of what a tint may look like.
> 
> I'm going to order some from our lab as well as a tint display tray. I just wanted to see what you all keep on hand for demonstration? Definitely getting an 80% gray, 80% brown. I was thinking for yellow/amber, blue, and pink to order a 20% or 30% of each. Does that seem reasonable? I would like to get an FL-41 sample as well but have never sold it - can it be ordered in different percentages or does it need to be a certain percentage? Should I get any samples in a gradient? Do you keep any fun tint samples on hand, like a darker blue, red, or purple? I am trying to think back to what we had at the last office a worked for, but it's been a few years.



846 / 5000







*Risultati della traduzione*We produce lenses and treatments for opticians, usually supplying samples in two folders of 24 lenses for free or at a small cost.Usually a folder contains Blue / Brown / Green / Gray in at least 2 versions (85% and 35% absorption), an example of degradants of different heights (high, medium, low) and at least 5 different mirrors (without absorption and which you can overlap to other colored lenses to get an idea of the color - mirror combination).The second folder is usually for trendy colors and is renewed every 2-3 yearsOur customers can order any combination of colors and AR or mirrors, however 30-40% of orders are made on the customer's "sample".Coloring takes 1 extra day to normal production.I think Italian opticians are all too well accustomed ;-)

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## DanLiv

I try very hard to stay away from tinting because most the time I order something special it does not turn out as expected, and it's a huge hassle to redo or customize if you do high quality AR and hard coats. For those few people who will not go with fixed-color polarized and just gotta have a certain color, I'll either need a sample from them or ask them to pick from among the various fashion tints of my plano sunglasses. There's always got to be a sample for the lab, because the brown gradient #2 in your patient's head is different from the brown gradient #2 in your head which is also different from the brown gradient #2 in your lab tech's head. Even if you specify 68%, how many labs are using transmission meters to verify, and do you have a transmission meter to verify yourself?

In just a couple cases when we were doing something exotic I sent several uncoated plano CR39 stock lenses to my lab and asked for several variations of a requested tint, they sent the samples backs and my customer picked from among them, then I sent that back as the final tint sample. It STILL didn't come back exactly as expected because the hard coat and AR application after tinting dulled the color, but it was acceptable.

And for such custom tints I charge as much as I would for polarized lenses, and never do it under an insurance copay, it's always a private pay upgrade. If you get someone too persnickety, tinting becomes the most laborious part of making a pair of glasses.

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## rbaker

You can't sell anything from an empty pushcart. Gotta have tint tanks and samples. Have lotsa CR-39's in stock. Custom tint lenses with the customer at your side. 

Order that bigger boat that you have been looking at.

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## Kwill212

> You can't sell anything from an empty pushcart. Gotta have tint tanks and samples. Have lotsa CR-39's in stock. Custom tint lenses with the customer at your side. 
> 
> *Order that bigger boat that you have been looking at*.



Should we be worried? Did you fall down and hit your head Dick? It's not 1985.

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## Uncle Fester

> Should we be worried? Did you fall down and hit your head Dick? It's not 1985.


And always keep on hand the peel and stick initials in gold and silver!!!  :Giggle:

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## NAICITPO

If you do big E products the Essilor colors are pretty cool and have always turned out nicely for us. 

Our best results happen when we tell the lab to match the tint of the lenses already in the frame. Or if they want a specific tint that we have a sample of, send the tint sample in with the job so the lab can have something to go off of.

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## KrystleClear

> I try very hard to stay away from tinting because most the time I order something special it does not turn out as expected, and it's a huge hassle to redo or customize if you do high quality AR and hard coats. For those few people who will not go with fixed-color polarized and just gotta have a certain color, I'll either need a sample from them or ask them to pick from among the various fashion tints of my plano sunglasses. There's always got to be a sample for the lab, because the brown gradient #2 in your patient's head is different from the brown gradient #2 in your head which is also different from the brown gradient #2 in your lab tech's head. Even if you specify 68%, how many labs are using transmission meters to verify, and do you have a transmission meter to verify yourself?
> 
> In just a couple cases when we were doing something exotic I sent several uncoated plano CR39 stock lenses to my lab and asked for several variations of a requested tint, they sent the samples backs and my customer picked from among them, then I sent that back as the final tint sample. It STILL didn't come back exactly as expected because the hard coat and AR application after tinting dulled the color, but it was acceptable.
> 
> And for such custom tints I charge as much as I would for polarized lenses, and never do it under an insurance copay, it's always a private pay upgrade. If you get someone too persnickety, tinting becomes the most laborious part of making a pair of glasses.


In a perfect world, we would only work with Polarized brown and gray but we have a mostly elderly patient base who remembers the days of cosmetic tints and customization. I had someone ask about a horizontal gradient tint the other day! I love when people want to do something fun with their lenses, but yes, it can end up in issues and remakes. We do a fair amount of 15 - 30% tints for patients who have been getting them for decades, but I always wince a little knowing as the small print says, " actual results may vary."

We are working on selling down our old sunglasses inventory to make room to bring in some new trendier styles for the younger patients we do get (we do a lot of LASIK surgeries and our optom is bringing in more and more patients under 80 years old). Some of the current Rayban styles have a really 70s vibe and the kids are really getting into 1970s styles, so I think fun tints are coming back.

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## mervinek

> And always keep on hand the peel and stick initials in gold and silver!!!


Yes!  I had a little old lady who always wanted a JP on her OD lens.  Eventually we ran out of Js and Ps and had to carefully peel them off and reuse them.  HA!

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## CME4SPECS

I remember the days when I turned on the tint tank every day, before I made the coffee. Now it gets turned on once a month or so.

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## Robert_S

> So, my shop has no tint samples on hand whatsoever to show patients during the sale. I had a patient last week specifically request a 20% brown gradient tint, but rejected them during the dispense for being too dark. We do not tint in house (our workspace is small and there is no room for a tint tank/neutralizer). This kind of thing is why I wish we had samples to give patients an idea of what a tint may look like.


Trust me, samples won't help with this. You'll still get people who change their mind on the tint and expect you to cover the bill. I even had a client the other day ask for a remake with no tint plus a refund for the difference, and she spent a while testing out different tint options before the dispense.

But to answer your question, we have a sample for about 100 different tints, which were kindly provided by Zeiss.

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## Robert_S

But tints are really in at the moment, I think almost every dispense should have one personally. It really finishes the right style off. Also sometimes a tint is preferable to polarised for certain sports or activities.

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## NAICITPO

Tints are so hot right now, don't forget to roll too.

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## KrystleClear

:Bounce: 

Tints are actually in right now with the younger crowd. Unfortunately most of them are ordering glasses online, but if you scroll social media like TikTok, you'll see that the fun gradient tints and frames of the 70s are really popular right now.

Now... rolled/faceted edges on the other hand...  :Unsure:

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## AngeHamm

> Tints are actually in right now with the younger crowd. Unfortunately most of them are ordering glasses online, but if you scroll social media like TikTok, you'll see that the fun gradient tints and frames of the 70s are really popular right now.
> 
> Now... rolled/faceted edges on the other hand...


Sounds like this is a great time for Transitions Splitz to make a return.

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## Uncle Fester

Anyone remember going to the local downtown Woolworth store to buy RIT dye?

Alas- environmental concerns over disposal made us change to BPI's as it was pulled from the market. Or was it changed so we couldn't tint lenses with it any longer?

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## jarralad2

Obviously people think tints don't have an effect other than cosmetic. But if they do- are the methods described above acceptable. Clearly not. 
So to help I am happy to give away free course on tints to first 10 people that pm me. There is around 8hrs videos, and 400 pages text. If I was a member of the public - I would want optometrists / opticians and other professionals to understand principles - because if you don't then there is a real risk that it will come back to bite! In my opinion tints are as critical as refraction - they do different things though - but the public don't know yet. When it gets out - which it will at some time (clinical trials in one area have already been done and an American corporation is looking at commercialisation)  - then optics had better know what its doing. Even now, there are so many papers extant, could you defend yourself against a law suit from a no win no fee lawyer? Some poor devil will get one at some time, maybe lots of people will get on the bandwagon. It may be years or even never. But I doubt it. I am currently writing a meta analysis - and it has shocked me as to how much is in the public domain and peer reviewed, and totally ignored in optics. But of course I may be wrong, if so, the professions are safe.

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## Lelarep

> Obviously people think tints don't have an effect other than cosmetic. But if they do- are the methods described above acceptable. Clearly not. 
> So to help I am happy to give away free course on tints to first 10 people that pm me. There is around 8hrs videos, and 400 pages text. If I was a member of the public - I would want optometrists / opticians and other professionals to understand principles - because if you don't then there is a real risk that it will come back to bite! In my opinion tints are as critical as refraction - they do different things though - but the public don't know yet. When it gets out - which it will at some time (clinical trials in one area have already been done and an American corporation is looking at commercialisation)  - then optics had better know what its doing. Even now, there are so many papers extant, could you defend yourself against a law suit from a no win no fee lawyer? Some poor devil will get one at some time, maybe lots of people will get on the bandwagon. It may be years or even never. But I doubt it. I am currently writing a meta analysis - and it has shocked me as to how much is in the public domain and peer reviewed, and totally ignored in optics. But of course I may be wrong, if so, the professions are safe.


What exactly is your background? Do you formal education in color science, optics, neuroscience (specifically opthoneurology), etc...?

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## jarralad2

have sent you private message - if you want to know more - just ask - and happy to help

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## Uncle Fester

> What exactly is your background? Do you formal education in color science, optics, neuroscience (specifically opthoneurology), etc...?


I think jarralad has a lot in common with this guy who also thought outside "accepted" science with no formal degree:


https://www.aaas.org/genius-michael-faraday

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## Lelarep

> I think jarralad has a lot in common with this guy who also thought outside "accepted" science with no formal degree:
> 
> 
> https://www.aaas.org/genius-michael-faraday


I had no idea you held jarralad in such high esteem. A comparison to Michael Faraday is quite a compliment.

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## KrystleClear

> Obviously people think tints don't have an effect other than cosmetic. But if they do- are the methods described above acceptable. Clearly not. 
> So to help I am happy to give away free course on tints to first 10 people that pm me. There is around 8hrs videos, and 400 pages text. If I was a member of the public - I would want optometrists / opticians and other professionals to understand principles - because if you don't then there is a real risk that it will come back to bite! In my opinion tints are as critical as refraction - they do different things though - but the public don't know yet. When it gets out - which it will at some time (clinical trials in one area have already been done and an American corporation is looking at commercialisation)  - then optics had better know what its doing. Even now, there are so many papers extant, could you defend yourself against a law suit from a no win no fee lawyer? Some poor devil will get one at some time, maybe lots of people will get on the bandwagon. It may be years or even never. But I doubt it. I am currently writing a meta analysis - and it has shocked me as to how much is in the public domain and peer reviewed, and totally ignored in optics. But of course I may be wrong, if so, the professions are safe.



Sorry if my post led you to think I feel that tints have no therapeutic value. I definitely do not think that. Also, everything you're saying is what continuing education is for. However, I am an optician and not an optometrist/ophthalmologist/neuro-ophthalmologist of any kind. I make recommendations on what I think might help. I do not prescribe tints/coatings. I do not make blanket promises on any coatings or upgrades. If a doctor recommends a specific tint, I will definitely make sure that is made available to the patient. What are you suggesting, concerning tints, that could lead to a lawsuit? Are you suggesting that not providing a tint could be malpractice? I'm curious.

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## jarralad2

OK - worst possible scenario 
A professional has a duty of care to the patient, not to do harm, and where appropriate give advice that will improve outcomes. The public have a right to expect all professionals to have sufficient knowledge to do this. The optical professions have a personal responsibility to ensure their competence. Refractive corrections are assessed usually pretty well (although they are at best a compromise) and dispensing is generally good (although can any professional actually say they have the best lens design for the Rx)  But if the visual problem is due to stimulus, then does the public actually get a good service? If tints can help an optical condition, does the optical professional have a duty to at least offer the correct filter? And the converse is true, if stimulus can cause a problem, do they have a duty not to prescribe it? The question is, how much of a problem can be caused by inappropriate interventions either by prescribing a poor filter for the patient or alternatively prescribing a filter that makes the problems worse or even introduces new problems. There are large numbers of optical conditions that cannot be addressed using refractive interventions, in some cases only tints will work. These conditions can be life changing. Let's take a controversial scenario - if you have a child that underachieves at school and as a consequence they do not get a good job, have personal problems with self esteem and have a hard life. Then they try a filter and suddenly they can read, everything seems to be ok. They are furious with their optical professional. They have gone to them and said they could not see to read. And all they needed was a properly prescribed tint. Optical professionals are supposed to be experts in tints. Their lives have ruined because of not getting the right tint when it would have sorted their problems out. I suspect a good lawyer would make a scary case! And it could be a lot worse. I have heard of at least one person that was considering this - but he decided not to be litigious. If it came up and there was a well publicised case - then the consequences could be very bad for the optical professions. But there again, I could be wrong. There may be no risk.

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## NAICITPO

> OK - worst possible scenario 
> A professional has a duty of care to the patient, not to do harm, and where appropriate give advice that will improve outcomes. The public have a right to expect all professionals to have sufficient knowledge to do this. The optical professions have a personal responsibility to ensure their competence. Refractive corrections are assessed usually pretty well (although they are at best a compromise) and dispensing is generally good (although can any professional actually say they have the best lens design for the Rx)  But if the visual problem is due to stimulus, then does the public actually get a good service? If tints can help an optical condition, does the optical professional have a duty to at least offer the correct filter? And the converse is true, if stimulus can cause a problem, do they have a duty not to prescribe it? The question is, how much of a problem can be caused by inappropriate interventions either by prescribing a poor filter for the patient or alternatively prescribing a filter that makes the problems worse or even introduces new problems. There are large numbers of optical conditions that cannot be addressed using refractive interventions, in some cases only tints will work. These conditions can be life changing. Let's take a controversial scenario - if you have a child that underachieves at school and as a consequence they do not get a good job, have personal problems with self esteem and have a hard life. Then they try a filter and suddenly they can read, everything seems to be ok. They are furious with their optical professional. They have gone to them and said they could not see to read. And all they needed was a properly prescribed tint. Optical professionals are supposed to be experts in tints. Their lives have ruined because of not getting the right tint when it would have sorted their problems out. I suspect a good lawyer would make a scary case! And it could be a lot worse. I have heard of at least one person that was considering this - but he decided not to be litigious. If it came up and there was a well publicised case - then the consequences could be very bad for the optical professions. But there again, I could be wrong. There may be no risk.


In this case the child's optometrist would be the one to be sued and not the optician. And the only way they would win a lawsuit is if they proved the doctor didn't provide an adequate standard of care. If the optometry community as a whole is deaf to this information then knowledge of tints is not a standard and you would not win a lawsuit. But if it wasn't a refractive error and the child still couldn't read our doctors would most likely send the kid to a neuro-ophthalmologist, I have seen them do this several times. 

I do not think what tints help a child read are common knowledge in the optical community, but if you have some information I would be interested in reading about it. Send me a PM :-)

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## jarralad2

I have sent you a link - i hope you enjoy - and it is useful.

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