# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  Fitting height

## Bobie

How to measure fitting height in 5 seconds.

----------


## k12311997

I'd get dizzy trying to take a fitting ht while rotating like that.:bbg:

----------


## apaul

Is it steps for a new dance for an opticians ball?
1 step 2 steps take a pd step?

----------


## apaul

Or Jet Li the optician?

----------


## Jacqui

I wonder what the patient is thinking??

----------


## Bobie

It's fast and accurate. :D

----------


## icare

I like it.

Interesting that the transilluminator is held at cheek level.  Good images.
Of course, this does seem predicated upon the optician and the patient being roughly the same height.

Thanks.

----------


## Bobie

Lock at the three fingers touching the face of the wearer , than hold the PD ruler by two fingers and use a pen light to measure from reflex in the pupil. After training it for a few hours , you will measure fitting height within 5 second and it will be very accurate.
:bbg:

----------


## HarryChiling

Bobie,

Maybe the title should read, "How to look good while measureing a segment height". Classy, way to sell the sizzle not the steak. :Cool:

----------


## chip anderson

So what?

----------


## Ladyoptician

I have to ask......why is she wearing a crown and why does he have on two different ties in the rotating pics????  Sorry, I'm one of those people that sit through a movie and point out the inconsistencies.....:D

----------


## HarryChiling

> I have to ask......why is she wearing a crown and why does he have on two different ties in the rotating pics???? Sorry, I'm one of those people that sit through a movie and point out the inconsistencies.....:D


It's a good movie though right?................ I think it's awesome that he adds a little pazzaz to his work it really shows that he enjoys what he is doing.  My guess would be that with such a tight style of measureing he could probably add $$ on the sale just for having "Master Bobie" perform all the fittings, add to that the tux he's got going................. It beats selling "High End" eyewear in a blue jean dress shirt or boots.  I think his style is top notch and it's obvious from his posts that his knowledge of the industry is top notch.  It's no wonder he commands such a great price for eyewear.

----------


## Jedi

> I think his style is top notch and it's obvious from his posts that his knowledge of the industry is top notch.


 Agreed, it's great to see that type of passion and flair in this industry, make this somewhat stressful buying situation something memorable.

----------


## Fezz

> I have to ask......why is she wearing a crown and why does he have on two different ties in the rotating pics????  Sorry, I'm one of those people that sit through a movie and point out the inconsistencies.....:D


The crown.......well maybe he makes evrey lady (or man) feel like QUEEN when he helps them.

The tie..........that I'm not sure about. Are you sure its not the sheen off of the jacket that appears to be a tie?

----------


## Bobie

For all who don't like tuxido version of Bobi's fitting height method , I also have a student version of Advance Progressive Addition Lenses Club in Shanghai. :D

----------


## Fezz

Hey Bobie,

That looks like one of the moves I perfected when I was training in Dim-Mak!

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

----------


## HarryChiling

> Hey Bobie,
> 
> That looks like one of the moves I perfected when I was training in Dim-Mak!
> 
> :cheers::cheers::cheers:


The Death PD. :D :cheers:

----------


## Bobie

The key to measure fitting height by Bobi's method is fast , accurate and looks smart for dispensing optician and it's very comfortable for the wearer.
The beam of the pen light focusing on the pupil of the wearer only 1 second on each eye.



One of the best pen light in my opinion is *Heine Top Quality Penlight Clip Light*
HE-D-0173150Price: US*$49.98, 2 for US$98.98 at http://www.allheart.com/hed0173150.html*





The HEINE HE-D-0173150 has a small size , smart design , strong body and automatically turns off when i put it into my shrit pocket.
:bbg:

----------


## Fezz

Bobie,

How about the pd stick? Is that available as well.

----------


## Fezz

> The Death PD. :D :cheers:




:cheers:

----------


## Barry Santini

Harry:

Can you calculate the effective parrallax for me of Bobie's method, assuming that his eye height is approximately 2-4 inches higher in the vertical plane than his clients (as it appears in the photo)?

How would this affect the ordering of those $10k progressives, which are definable in  corridor height to 0.1mm?

Just thinkin'......

Barry

----------


## HarryChiling

2 - 4 inches high, then I'll make and assumption of the arm length of 25 inches

that gives us an angle of about 4.5 - 9 degrees which across the span of the vertex is about a 1 - 2 mm differnce in height roughly.

----------


## Bobie

For a new wearer of PALs , I will measure fitting height by setting up my eye higher than the wearer's eye 2 - 4 inchs, because it is much more easier to adap for a new wearer to walk down stairs or walking on a difference level.One day if you have to fit 30 pairs of Individual Free Form PALs per day , 313 days per year , you will understand that there is no time for unnecessary things, because you have to adjust the frame and measure the PD / fitting height / Pantoscopic tilt angle / Face form angle / Cornea Vertex Distance and set up different corridors of trial PALs for wearers to try at distance, laptop & desktop computer and the biggest size of newspaper. ( I have only 15 minutes per case to do all of these procedures!)0.1 mm step corridor is nothing about fitting height , but about different designs of PALs for distance zone , intermediate zone and reading zone. For example if the wearer gets used to Ellipse corridor 9.5 mm at 14 mm corridor , when I'm fitting Rodenstock Impression FreeSign for him I will design 11.5 mm corridor even the new frame can adjust fitting height from 9.5 mm up to 22 mm.You must be really an expert if you would like to play with 0.1 mm step corridors of PALs and the wearer will pay more for nothing on FreeSign if you are inexperienced.Kodak Concise vs Ellipse vs Summit CD vs Nikon Presio i13 are working totally different because they are slightly different corridors.My knowlege comes from over 30,000 pairs of hi-end PALs that I have been fitting for many years and I dare to say that , I'm the one who stand sright in the front line who can prove that many expensive PALs are not good enough as claimed.Barry Santini , would you like to open your mind and come to me to learn the secret like my students or would you would like to walk around this secret from far and far away like most people do and don't learn anything!. :finger: ( Anyway , your life is yours )

----------


## rinselberg

> I have to ask......why is she wearing a crown and why does he have on two different ties in the rotating pics????  Sorry, I'm one of those people that sit through a movie and point out the inconsistencies.....:D


I think that (what's on her head) is a "tiara". A fashion accessory for anyone (any girl or lady.. ahem) who wants to make a "royal" impression. It looks like some people like to dress up when they go to Bobie's. As for the two different wardrobes that Bobie is seen wearing.. only he could explain that.

----------


## Bobie

Most of my customers are billionaires who would like to have the world's best eyeglasses the world can get and they never care about the price tag.
They have are used to dressing in 3,000 US$ clothes and buy them more than 300,000 US$ per year.
ISOPTIK is located in the same building as Grand Hyatt ERAWANs , one of the best 5 star hotel that billionaire customers dress very luxurious for hi-so party nearly everyday.
In fact , I don't wear a tuxedo everyday , but i wear it only sometimes when I have to join a hi-so party.
Many billionaires around the world have been flying more than 10 hours to try the hi-end PALs at ISOPTIK because they don't know where they can get it in their country.
At ISOPTIK , we sell only the hi-end PALs or nothing. After I set up Hi-End Eyeglasses project for many years and fitting more than 30,000 pairs of hi-end PALs , I feel very lonely , because nobody does it and most people in eyeglasses business still believe that it is impossible and they choose to believe that , it is absolutely impossible for one man to sell 1,000 pairs of hi-end PALs in 1 year.
In fact , even my student in Advance Progressive Addition Lenses Club also did it already.
For anyone who believe that , " Life is too short to limit your vision " and would like to join in hi-end eyeglasses centre business in ISOPTIK way , please contact me directly for the deep blue ocean eyeglasses business.
For those who love to be in the red ocean eyeglasses business and believe that , most wearers don't want to pay more than 2,000 US$ for 1 pair of PALs , please stay away from me , because we are in a totally different world and we speak a totally different language

If you like Latte , please come to visit me at ISOPTIK for one of the best Latte.

:cheers: Cheer for Latte lover! & for people who believe that " Life is beautiful and sight is life "

:cheers:

----------


## rinselberg

Rodenstock progressive lenses plus designer frame.. $1000

.. fitted and dispensed by Bobie in a tuxedo.. $10,000

Bobie's posts.. PRICELESS!


(Just a little levity. If ultra-high-end optical works for Bobie, who am I to object?)

----------


## Bobie

Stupid dispensing optician will compare their Mercidez Benz A class with S class in hi-end show room car that sell only S class and blame S class show room like rinselberg did it.
If it's fair or not nobody cares , because in our world you can be stupid as much as you want to and can get the result of your own stupidity and nobody cares if your stupid it does not disturb them.

The price of Rodenstock Impression FreeSign ColorMatic 1.67 is 6 times more expensive than Rodenstock Progressiv PureLife Perfalit 1.5 and 10 times more expensive than Rodenstock Progressiv SI.

rinselberg have to inform that what PALs of Rodenstock he means for 1,000 US$ with what brand of designer frame.

The price of designer frames can be 10 times different depending on the brand and model.

rinselberg , you can compare BVLGARI solid gold with a diamond limited edition at a price tag of 15,000 US$ and start shouting that " Oh, that shop sells BVLGARI 33 times more expensive than me because they wear a very smart uniform! " , but it will be very stupid in my opinion.

ISOPTIK is the one that has a better life guarantee for all eyeglasses for 2 years and if our customers can find any place in the world who can make better or the same quality eyeglasses in the same price or cheaper , they have the right to instant refund their money 100% without any questions and our guarantees also cover earthquakes , huricans , tornados , car crashes , dogs , foot or wrong use for any reason.

Anyway , rinselberg , we are in two total different worlds and I recommend that you try to learn how to respect each other as much as possible and try to create someg ood things on this webboard. May be I expect to much , but I will try. 

Everyday I have to answer a lot of stupid question like this from many dispensing optician around the world , some of them ask me because they really would like to learn and many of them just ask to make themself look more smart but don't want to learn anything.

rinselberg , which one are you?

:bbg:

----------


## rinselberg

I'm not a dispensing optician.

I was only JOKING.

I'm one of the very _last_ posters (people) on this forum that you should ever be concerned about.

I like to joke!

----------


## Barry Santini

Bobbie:

1. Your familiarity, understanding and experience with all types of PALs, including ones that promise a degree of sophistication and performance that we here in the US have no experience with, tempts me greatly to want to very much take up position along side you, with you as the *master*, and I has the humble student with much to learn and skills and knowledge to acquire.

2. My experience of 35 years as a dispensing optician has taught me, if nothing else, the following:
a. Eyewear _never_ stays precisely in the place it was measured from, no matter how "accurate" the fitter's measurement.
b. The human eye is not a CCD or a camera, unlike the many analogies with often use. There is neural processing, millions of years of evolution of visual habits, and, not the least, our emotional evolution and development, which has been accompanied by the development of _mirror neurons_ and their subsequent affect on how we compare what we _*perceive*_ with what our experience has taught us to expect. Nowhere is this more in play than the demands of adaptation that both SV and progressive eyewear make on our visual system. Our total experience with ophthalmic lenses _is not_ all just the hard science of optics...it is significantly colored by the influence evolution made on our primitive brains to efficiently process the overhwlming input of sensory stimuli of any type, including visual.

For these reasons (and others), I *am* inmmediately suspicious of any approach or lens that suggests that ultra-precise measurements/execution is the path to visual nirvana. You'll have to forgive this failure of my intellect. That said, I do try to constantly challenge myself to keep an open mind...which is why I want to be your student.

Also, there is somewhat of a disconnect for me in your stated work constraints:

On one hand, you have access to and fit the widest variety and greatest levels of premium, expensive, and sophisticated PALs that I am presently aware of. Yet, by your own statements, you do not have "much time" to take measurements. This is a fundamental disconnect here from a, perhaps, cultural perspective. The selection and fitting of any true luxury products here in the US is _not_ expected to be accompanied by a "slam, bam, thank you mam" approach.

And there are the unspoken issues of both the current precision of and questionable *absolute* nature of what we all start with when we sit done to dispense - today's refraction paradigm. Just how significant can the true impact of ever finer levels lens design and execution be when human vision is so fundamentally *fluid* in nature (even from morning to evening, in one day).

The above is meant to be part of an ongoing dialogue, and should *not* be construed as an attempt to participate in an ego-charged, emotionally-ladened debate. 

The student is now respectfully ready for the teacher's guidance...

Barry

----------


## chip anderson

Isoptic:  1000 pairs a year is only 5 a day (5 day work week) or about 1 per hour, 15min.  Does it really matter if you take 10 seconds or 10  minites mesuring seg heights?  What's the rush.  At those prices, the patient should get attention all day long.

Chip

----------


## Bobie

The most of customers at ISOPTIK are executive people like CEO , MD , President , Managing Director of big company who have nearly everything in their life except time.

In case that they have so much time , they can spend their time with my ophthalmologist and optometrist for primary eyecare or visual training.

We take care our customer fully 2 years for each eyeglasses without anycharge in all condition and also take the best care of their family for primary eyecare yearly.

In each country need Hi-End Eyeglasses Centre only one , but in big country like US may be can have in New York , LA , Washington DC and Chicago.

The hi-end eyeglasses centre working like 5 stars hotel that never have the low price of room like junk guest house or dirty motel. 

The funny things in eyeglasses retail business around the world is , it is very difficult to find the place to get the best hi-end PALs when money is not the issue , but it is very easy to find out the place to get cheap as cheap possible PALs from every optical shop around the world , except ISOPTIK.

More funny thing is ISOPTIK located in Bangkok Thailand that you can buy 60 US$ PALs with frame from 1,000 optical shop every 500 meters in town.

But the price of PALs at ISOPTIK start from 1,272 US$ up and this price without any frame and not including eyetest fee and the price of lenses , frame at ISOPTIK are fixed price ( same price for everyone ) no matter how much you buy or how long you have been our customer or who you are.

Another strong point of ISOPTIK is we never discount , because another optical shop they get used to discount. This make ISOPTIK total difference from other.

By the way , I just do what I believe and I just get what I do and I try to sharing what I get for someone else. Lucky me that , I think difference , I do difference and I get difference and the rich customer like it , that all.

My next target is to changing the world to be better with my hi-end eyeglasses centre , and all partner are welcome.

All of Optiboard Discussion Forums are welcome at ISOPTIK!

:D

----------


## conor

> Bobbie:
> 
> 1. Your familiarity, understanding and experience with all types of PALs, including ones that promise a degree of sophistication and performance that we here in the US have no experience with, tempts me greatly to want to very much take up position along side you, with you as the *master*, and I has the humble student with much to learn and skills and knowledge to acquire.
> 
> 2. My experience of 35 years as a dispensing optician has taught me, if nothing else, the following:
> a. Eyewear _never_ stays precisely in the place it was measured from, no matter how "accurate" the fitter's measurement.
> b. The human eye is not a CCD or a camera, unlike the many analogies with often use. There is neural processing, millions of years of evolution of visual habits, and, not the least, our emotional evolution and development, which has been accompanied by the development of _mirror neurons_ and their subsequent affect on how we compare what we _*perceive*_ with what our experience has taught us to expect. Nowhere is this more in play than the demands of adaptation that both SV and progressive eyewear make on our visual system. Our total experience with ophthalmic lenses _is not_ all just the hard science of optics...it is significantly colored by the influence evolution made on our primitive brains to efficiently process the overhwlming input of sensory stimuli of any type, including visual.
> 
> For these reasons (and others), I *am* inmmediately suspicious of any approach or lens that suggests that ultra-precise measurements/execution is the path to visual nirvana. You'll have to forgive this failure of my intellect. That said, I do try to constantly challenge myself to keep an open mind...which is why I want to be your student.
> ...


May I point out that Bobi is a Thai person  and, judging from his profile pic , a Chinese- Thai person at that . So , English would be his not second , but third language , behind Thai and Chinese . Maybe you should use plainer language?:D

----------


## Happylady

I use a penlight and a marker to measure progressives. I think I am very accurate but I don't try to do it in 5 seconds.

----------


## Fezz

> Maybe you should use plainer language?:D



 :Confused: 

I am not familiar with the Plainers. What part of the world are they from. In the States, we have the Plains, but I have never heard them use "plainer language".

----------


## conor

> I am not familiar with the Plainers. What part of the world are they from. In the States, we have the Plains, but I have never heard them use "plainer language".


I guess this is meant to be a joke but if you are serious.. plainer = not complicated . Try an online dictionary . Maybe you had too many pints of plain last night?:cheers:

----------


## Fezz

> I guess this is meant to be a joke but if you are serious.. plainer = not complicated . Try an online dictionary . Maybe you had too many pints of plain last night?:cheers:



Welcome to Optiboard Conor!

;):cheers::cheers::D

----------


## k12311997

> May I point out that Bobi is a Thai person and, judging from his profile pic , a Chinese- Thai person at that . So , English would be his not second , but third language , behind Thai and Chinese . Maybe you should use plainer language?:D





> I guess this is meant to be a joke but if you are serious.. plainer = not complicated . Try an online dictionary . Maybe you had too many pints of plain last night?:cheers:


conor,

Bobi has had no problems or complaints of communicating with us Yanks,  I think Fezz my have been trying to humorously point out that you were making prejudicial assumptions.

----------


## JanMueller

Like your work Bobie! I am in trouble because I don't think that the customer behaves in this measurement period the same way as he or she does when wearing the glasses. Everybody who is measured stands very stiff and not as he is used to when he walks around...
Why don't you use your Impressionist. When you make the photo you can better watch your customer if he behaves in an other way...
Like to learn much more from you, I have read any post so far and want to see much more.

----------


## Bobie

ImpressionIST is one of the best way to fitting Rodenstock Impression lenses for most of dispensing optician who are not expert about measurement Face Form Angle , Pantoscopic Tilt Angle , Corneal Vertex Distance , P.D. and Fitting Height.

The weak point of ImpressionIST are at below ;
1. the speed of CPU that always lacking for few seconds.

2. The quality of video is very low and look ugly on any frame that can make customer confuse to choose any frame.

I am going to modify ImpressionIST by upgrade mainboard , CPU , RAMM , graphic card and hard drive to Intel Core 2 DUO platform and will report the result on 2009.

ISOPTIK wishes to open more than 100 Hi-End Eyeglasses Centre around the world for service the wearer who would like to have master pieces of eyeglasses with state of the art technology. All partner who also believe that, " Life is too short to limit your vision " are welcome.


English is my thrid language. In case that anyone who would like to communicated with me at maximum level, they have to expert in Thai language or have to communicated with me at third level with English.

----------


## JanMueller

Rodenstock themself have modified the Impressionist to the Impressionist Advance coming this year. I have seen it at Rodenstock headquarter in Munich and was impressed by the new picture quality! Nice to hear from you! Learned much at your *ISOPTIK * website !!!

----------


## Metronome

Delete.

----------


## MarcE

Just dot the pupil on the demo w/ a Sharpie.  Now you have the FH and the PD.  And it is documented and available for a recheck when the lens is ordered.

Nothing could be quicker and it's nice to be able the verify the PD and FH before actually cutting those $600 lenses.

----------


## obxeyeguy

Borysko??  Is that you??

----------

