# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  Lenscrafters return policy...am I a potentially bad customer?

## Junebug

I bought some glasses from Lenscrafters, about 3 weeks ago and now wish to return them. (Everything's fine, technically. I found an almost identical pair at a local independent for about 1/2 of the price, with another chunk taken out by insurance - in total, about 1/6 the price of my Lenscrafters glasses, with hi-index plastic, instead of poly. I like the clarity of the hi-index plastic, over the poly (A little distorting!). My script is OU -5.25, by the way.) 

In general, how hassle-free is their "30-day - No ifs, ands, or buts!" return policy? I feel like the evil customer-from-hell, but I'd rather not keep these glasses, now. (Of course, next time, I'll weigh all of my options BEFORE making a purchase. :) )

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## LENNY

:D Before, Before, Before!



An Evil customer to the Evil Empire:D !!!!

Unfortunately I think you CAN get your money back!

I hope at least you can prepare the speach!

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## GOS_Queen

Junebug -  



I work for LensCrafters.  It's really true that you can return your glasses within 30 days.  It really should be no problem.  

Best Regards -

Karen

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## Ryan

> I bought some glasses from Lenscrafters, about 3 weeks ago and now wish to return them. (Everything's fine, technically. I found an almost identical pair at a local independent for about 1/2 of the price, with another chunk taken out by insurance - in total, about 1/6 the price of my Lenscrafters glasses, with hi-index plastic, instead of poly. I like the clarity of the hi-index plastic, over the poly (A little distorting!). My script is OU -5.25, by the way.) 
> 
> In general, how hassle-free is their "30-day - No ifs, ands, or buts!" return policy? I feel like the evil customer-from-hell, but I'd rather not keep these glasses, now. (Of course, next time, I'll weigh all of my options BEFORE making a purchase. :) )


I have a store inside a mall with a LensCrafters.  There return policy is hassle free.  The will refund your money within  30 days.  I also have a friend that works at a LensCrafters, and believe me, people do return them and that is their policy. So don't be afraid, just tell them and they will refund your money. It is nice to see a consumer weighing all of their options and making an informed decision on their eyes.  Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

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## chip anderson

Now you know the truth about Lenscrafters and how advertising can make things seem better than they are.

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## Junebug

I returned them...no problem. That was easy!

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## karen

Junebug, if you don't mind my asking, why did you choose Lenscrafters to purchase from initially?  And was the place you ended up purchashing from an independent optometry office?

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## Specs

What a ridiculous policy. What other custom made product that the consumer chooses is returnable for no reason other than "I changed my mind"? The hearing aid business will attest to the misery that their retun policy has done to their industry. Do we really want to follow that poor example.  In an era where we are trying to increase our professsionalism why resort to hard core sales tactics. We're finally realizing our services are worth money, we now actually charge for repairs now. Is the consumer not responsible for their own decision making? So maybe I should be able to hire a house painter, I choose a color, the painter paints it. I pay for it. Then 25 days later I can call the painter and say "I'm not in love with the color. Come out and re-do the entire job in another color for free." I don't think so.
Are we a profession, or what?

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## Chris Ryser

> Snook Fishin' Optician
> 
> *What a ridiculous policy. What other custom made product that the consumer chooses is returnable for no reason other than "I changed my mind"?*


I just love your remark, part of which is in the above quote.

Glasses have been made, sold, paid, and if the girlfriend of the buyer say's, I dont like them he can bring them back and get a full refund.

If a comapny can afford to to that, it is calculated into the selling prices, lets be honest.This means the one that is not returning is paying for the one that is.

Opticians have also this non adapt wareranty bu the manufacturers of progressive lenses, which do NOT cost one penny less than a single vision lens to manufacture, but costs a lot more to the optician, but has a return warranty.

Why not go back to basics...........pay and buy wharever you want or need and no returns when made specially for you and we all will see prices drop like a rock in the water. :D

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## DocInChina

Chris,

As I was preparing my reply you beat me to it. 

Lenscrafters has this return built into their price structure. I seem to recall that the percentage of returns is under 5% (correct me if I am wrong). With their pricing they can afford to give this generous return policy. Also, from a pyschological point of view, a company willing to give a 30 day refund appears to have more confidence in their end product in the consumers' eyes. When I was in practice I gave a 30 day exchange policy. Also, if a customer was able to find the eyewear for less I would give them a store coupon towards their next purchase. In most cases the customer was quite happy.

Doc

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## Chris Ryser

> Chris,
> 
> *In most cases the customer was quite happy.*
> 
> Doc


Doc, you are right................the customer always pays for what he gets

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## ksquared

Junebug:



> I bought some glasses from Lenscrafters, about 3 weeks ago and now wish to return them. Everything's fine, technically. I found an almost identical pair at a local independent for about 1/2 of the price. (I feel like the evil cusotmer-from-hell.) I returned them...no problem. That was easy!



I have to ask  how many of you Independents would have let a customer return their glasses for a full refund when technically there was nothing wrong with the glasses. Instead the customer just happened to find them cheaper somewhere else and decided they wanted to change the material used? Not to stick up for the evil empire, but I do have to give Lenscrafters credit for providing excellent customer service. 

Junebug - Evil customer from hell? No, but it does sound like you may have felt a little guilt and perhaps responsibility for your decision to purchase form Lenscrafters in the 1st place and than want a refund when you found them cheaper somewhere else. You did after all agree to pay a certain price for goods that were delivered as specified. But arent you glad Lencrafters still plays by one of the old rules where the customer is always right regardless and has such a great return policy. Even if all of the other Lencscrafter customers actually end up paying for your change of mind.

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## chip anderson

As to this young lady being a bad customer:  A girl can say no up to consumation, after that she should live with her situation.

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## Spexvet

> I found an almost identical pair at a local independent for about 1/2 of the price, with another chunk taken out by insurance - in total, about 1/6 the price of my Lenscrafters glasses, with hi-index plastic, instead of poly.


Junebug,

Please spread the word! I try to tell my patients this, and they think I'm giving them a line just to make a sale!

Thanks,
Spexvet

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## For-Life

> Junebug,
> 
> Please spread the word! I try to tell my patients this, and they think I'm giving them a line just to make a sale!
> 
> Thanks,
> Spexvet


My city does not have a Lenscrafters.  One day a good customer's daughter came in looking for glasses.  She is about 20 and her friend was with her.  He friend told me that she is going to Winnipeg to purchase her glasses, because it is cheaper there.  Being to Winnipeg several times I was familiar with the market and asked her where she is getting these really inexpensive glasses from, and with a smug look on her face she said "Lenscrafters."

Considering that the chain sells their Featherweights with AR for $100 more than most places sell Airwear Aspheric Crizal Alize it was interesting that people do have the perception that they are saving money there.  I find it unique that I am not the cheapest place in town, yet still realitively less expensive than the Ol' LC, yet people think they are really getting a deal.

LC does a great promotional job.

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## Chris Ryser

> *LC does a great promotional job.*


*Let,s not forget..........they have to*. Situated mostly in expensive locations within shopping centers where you not only pay a high rent but also depending to the deal have to remit 10% to 20% of your gross revenue.

In the old day's there was an international rule of profits for optical stores. I dont know if it still applies and it would be interesting hearing from other optiboarders on this subject:

*In order to be a somehow proitable optical retail operation you had to sell a minimu of 3 pairs of new glasses per day per employee, which included the boss or manager including lab employees, secretaries and even the cleaner of you had one.*

Maybe todays sales ahve to be higher and maybe lower, would be interesting to hear some other opinions.

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## For-Life

> *Let,s not forget..........they have to*. Situated mostly in expensive locations within shopping centers where you not only pay a high rent but also depending to the deal have to remit 10% to 20% of your gross revenue.
> 
> In the old day's there was an international rule of profits for optical stores. I dont know if it still applies and it would be interesting hearing from other optiboarders on this subject:
> 
> *In order to be a somehow proitable optical retail operation you had to sell a minimu of 3 pairs of new glasses per day per employee, which included the boss or manager including lab employees, secretaries and even the cleaner of you had one.*
> 
> Maybe todays sales ahve to be higher and maybe lower, would be interesting to hear some other opinions.


I think today the market is more diversfied.  Take a high end store (and I mean really high end) they do not really need to sell a lot.  Maybe one a day to break even.  Where a low end store would need to really rely on the volume.  

It will be interesting to see if it stays like that over the next 10-20 years or if it goes in one of the two directions.

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## shellrob

Our lenses are non-refundable.

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## drk

Lenscrafters' positioning in the market is unique. They do not (generally) seem to be positioning themselves in relationship to their competition. 

They don't say: "We're cheaper"
They don't say: "We're better"
They don't say: "We're friendlier"
They used to say: "We're faster" but they don't seem to emphasize that any longer.

Their message seems to be (these days), simply: "We're HERE, and you should come to us!" They don't make many promises, but they do offer that return policy and generally quick turn-around time.

My thinking about why places like that succeed: It's easier to go there, in the consumer's mind, and they have a point:
1.) "I know where the mall is"
2.) "They are always open"
3.) "It's not as intimidating as a "real" optical"
4.) "I know the name (brand recognition), therefore I feel comfortable about dealing with them.

PLUS, they perceive, incorrectly:
1.) "I'm sure they're cheaper than one of those "real Dr.'s offices"
2.) "They will have the latest fashion, since they're in a mall"

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## For-Life

Well the new thing I really see on this board is a consumer will curse us out for this or that and say that they have checked us all out.  When they went to Lenscrafters...

Then I stop and say - but I am not Lenscrafters, so how can you attack us?

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## Blake

drk,

LC's new motto is "You'll See.  We're Better".  This replaces previous references to one hour service.

Brand recognition is a _big_ part of it I'm sure.

The BAD customers aren't the ones who take advantage of the posted return policy... they're the ones who demand a refund after 18 months when the glasses don't withstand the weight of their wife's back side.  That's when the ol' customer service baseball bat is needed. :bbg:

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## Johns

We've sold 6 pairs of glasses to folks that FIRST purchased glasses from LC! Some took the LC glasses out for a "test ride", decided they liked the glasses, but not the price, and then bought new specs from us once they returned their purchases.  I still think it's idiotic to adviertise the policy so heavily.  I think it has a lot of people second guessing their purchases.  Oh well!!

Our policy is:  We custom make the glasses to your Dr's. Rx,if you want a different pair, you're free to buy more than one.  If you don;t like them, get a new Rx from your Dr. and we'll make the change.  We won't give the store away as a marketing gimick.

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## Bev Heishman

You made your decision to purchase glasses where you wanted to. This is between you and that company. I suggest that you contact them and do not request us to play arm chair quarterback. If I make a decision on any consumer good, I take responsibility for my action. You need to do the same. 

If you have a problem it is not always the practioners fault. Some people decide they want something  and expect great performance although they are not willing to pay the price. Don't think so...it is not out there. In regards to lenses, it is like comparing an Escort to a Lincoln or a Volkswagon Bug to a Mercedes. That is your decision and hopefully you have selected a practioner that has scruples to enlighten you about the technology out there and is not basing their decision on best pricing for their bottom line.

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## rep

Something is rotten in Denmark here.

I could see a 20 to 30% price difference. But 80% cheaper?

Come on. Give me a break!

How many on this board would sell  -5.25 sph's in High Index 80% cheaper than Lenscrafters?

There has to be a difference in frame cost too. 

Rep

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## karen

> My thinking about why places like that succeed: It's easier to go there, in the consumer's mind, and they have a point:
> 1.) "I know where the mall is"
> 2.) "They are always open"
> 3.) "It's not as intimidating as a "real" optical"
> 4.) "I know the name (brand recognition), therefore I feel comfortable about dealing with them.
> 
> PLUS, they perceive, incorrectly:
> 1.) "I'm sure they're cheaper than one of those "real Dr.'s offices"
> 2.) "They will have the latest fashion, since they're in a mall"


drk, you are on the mark! I have 5 hours of ABO credits that VCA put together for us on exactly this subject.  Beleive it or not, the capture rate of some offices lends itself to this phenomenon.  Over *4 billion dollars* a year is walking out of independent OD's and into retail chains.  Some offices don't take the time when they have the patient to enumerate the options and get them excited enough about the purchase to stay there.  Even the way the office is set up can work against them.  This happens to be one of my big "soapbox" issues-being the granddaughter and daughter of an independent OD ( and an optician myself!) and watching how the industry has changed in the past 20 years makes me want to stand on a streetcorner with a bullhorn and set these confused consumers straight.  Interestingly, Costco has now implemented a policy where if you are not ABO and NCLE, you can't work there.  I am finding that lots of these places are getting better qualified people so we can't use that "we know more than they do" excuse anymore. Typically they always expect to spend less in those places and end up spending more than they would have if they had stayed with the independent (have stats on that but can't remember them!)

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## drk

> Over *4 billion dollars* a year is walking out of independent OD's and into retail chains. Some offices don't take the time when they have the patient to enumerate the options and get them excited enough about the purchase to stay there. Even the way the office is set up can work against them.


So true.  While there are only a few OD's that post here, the wholesale optical labs should really pay attention to this:

Optometry is changing, and for the worse.  More and more, especially with the bad taste of online CLs, OD's are trying to distance themselves from "selling" anything.  I can't disagree strenuously enough.

For opticians: there is a big opportunity emerging.  Remember the days of non-dispensing ophthalmologists?  We will see a trend towards that in optometry.  There are ways to take advantage of that.

Of course, ophthalmology dealt with the issue long ago, and have come to understand that providing optical services is appreciated (at least by the patient and some employed opticians:) ), but it will take optometry many years to get back to that mentality.  We're going through a phase of self-loathing, right now.

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## Cowboy

The way I see it, this industry is not that much different than the psychology industry. The one difference is that we sell tangible products. We have to use psychology to get a consumer to believe we, he, she, they, etc., are better and why x-y-z products are better. Example of theory, why would one person buy glasses from wal-mart but one would by from you? Psychological reasoning. The consumers react in different manners based on stimuli. Walmart advertises low Prices, you advertise professional, courteous, high quality services, etc. The name of the game is how many are convinceable to you and those who are swayed by the savings. 
Service is a by-product to a sale. The very first delivery of the sale is you and your location. You have to play psychologist to get into someones head to make them believe you are the best before they pick up the phone. Then it is up to you to make the experience the reality.
When we offer refunds, exchanges, no-cost services, etc.,these are the by-products of service and the extended perception the consumer made the right choice......or not.  There is no competition but your own.
:cheers: 
Cowboy

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## Chris Ryser

> *So true. While there are only a few OD's that post here, the wholesale optical labs should really pay attention to this:*


*If you follow the news and press releases on the optical business you would have seen that:*

*LUXOTTICA has just purchased the majority of the largest retail chain in the far east.*

*ESSILOR has just added another major wholesale lab in the USA*

*ZEISS just ha completed the purchase of SOLA*

*VIVA Internayional has just been sold to a health care provider*

*MOULIN is just buying another major retail chain*

All this over a very short time period

The retail world is changing fast and neither Optometrists or Opticians will be independent 15 years from now.

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## drk

15 years?

Chris, I don't see it.

There is an argument that independent labs may be gobbled, but that's mainly due to the extensive technology that will dominate the field in the future.  You can centralize "manufacturing", if you will.

The "retailers" of health care will always need to be smaller and dispersed to penetrate the marketplace.  Consumers aren't going to drive to a central mega-optical.  

As long as technology demands expenses aren't prohibitive, the independent will survive and thrive.

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## Chris Ryser

> *As long as technology demands expenses aren't prohibitive, the independent will survive and thrive.*


I hope you are right.........maybe even under total commercial dictatorship some independents will survive if they purchase from the dictators and sell at prices they are told to.

*Look at Canada's healtcare which has become a commercial dictatorship.* My family doctor now works 2 month and then takes off 1 month. If she would work the third mont in a row she would earn above the set income cap and not get paid and have worked for nothing.
So lots of doctors in Canada work only 2/3rds of the year. Many move to the USA which provides better income. My doctor wanted me to get an EKG done by a heart specialist who gave me an appointment 8 1/2 month ahead. *I could actually drop dead of a heart attack without having had any advance warning.*

You will most probably now argue that this is a government problem, which is true. But if a profession is in the hands and controlled by a couple of major corporations on a world wide basis they will become their own government and start laying down the rules.

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## drk

Superb point, friend.

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## Spexvet

The doctor here is scheduling cataract surgeries for September. In America. Granted, it's not life or death, but it's still a long way away.

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## DM777

I work for LensCrafters and there are times when I wish there wasn't a 30 day return policy.  I have seen this policy abused several times by people who go to an independent or other chain, order glasses they have to wait a week for, but then they come to us and get a pair in an hour to wear until theirs comes in, then they bring it back and return it (all the while exclaiming they were returning because we were too expensive).  But we take it back and smile because that's the policy. 

We encourage our customers to try something different, to see their glasses as accessories.  This is the main reason for the 30 days.  It also allows them to experience the benefits of having multiple pairs and see what works best for them.  

As far as what happens to the frames and lenses once they are returned.     Some are put back on the shelf with new demo lenses.  Some are donated to Gift of Sight.  It depends on the condition of the frame and the length of time the customer had it.  Some customers return them as soon as they put them on their face and see themselves clearly for the the first time.  We sell all of our frames off the shelf so most have been tried on before anyway.   The lenses get thrown away unless they were part of a donated pair.  

As for the LC bashing, the opticians in my store were all independents at one time.  They have been with LC for several years now and brought several loyal customers with them.  They are happy with LC and enjoy many benefits that I'm sure most people wish they had:  paid vacation time, medical, dental, vision, 401K, company funded pension, just to name a few.  

So don't knock us because one day you may have to eat your words.

The first thing I learned in business was to never burn a bridge!!!

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## Chris Ryser

> *There has to be a difference in frame cost too.* 
> Rep


Most probably discontinued frames dumped to LC at regular wholesale preice and sold dirt cheap to independents.

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## Johns

> As far as what happens to the frames and lenses once they are returned. Some are put back on the shelf with new demo lenses. Some are donated to Gift of Sight. It depends on the condition of the frame and the length of time the customer had it. Some customers return them as soon as they put them on their face and see themselves clearly for the the first time. We sell all of our frames off the shelf so most have been tried on before anyway. The lenses get thrown away unless they were part of a donated pair.


I hope that the consumers that visit this site are taking notice of the recurring admissions by LC employees that they do indeed sell used products.  Trying a frame on, walking over to a mirror, and then taking it off is not the same as wearing it for several weeks, and the returning it. Oils and other bodily fluids do get absorbed into the noespads, as well as the temples in some cases.  I'm sure the next post will be saying "We ALWAYS change the temple tips and nosepads!", just like a few months ago the posts were,"Lenscrafters would never sell used frames!"

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## DM777

> Oils and other bodily fluids do get absorbed into the noespads, as well as the temples in some cases. I'm sure the next post will be saying "We ALWAYS change the temple tips and nosepads!", just like a few months ago the posts were,"Lenscrafters would never sell used frames!"


A few months ago we didn't sell a frame that had already been used. This is something new that has come about. Whatever you may think, we don't get as many frame returns as we do lens exchanges which is also part of our 30 day guarantee. People who want to try a progressive don't like it and want single vision is just one on the many exchanges we do in which case the frame the customer purchased would be reused again anyway. So there is about 1 "reused" frame to every 100 new ones on the floor. Also as I said before we do take into account the time the frame has left the store. I doubt very seriously that someone who had the frame for a week or less wore it very much to begin with. I can't speak for other LC stores but at ours it doesn't go back on the shelf unless it was purchased within the last 7 days in addition to meeting other guidelines. 

As a former Sunglass Hut employee (many, many, years ago, long before it was owed by Luxottica), they too have always put their returned sunglasses back on the shelf. It never was an issue with the customer there.

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## fjpod

I ask you...what consumer knows how to state his prescription as " -5.25 OU"?
I'm sure I'll get a burning reply.

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## LENNY

Doc!  You are goooood!


U stands for Kosher? and O?

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## Sherri Cole

Junebug, I wish you would return those glasses. As Opticians we discuss raising the bar for Optics and the hope that our industry will return to be perceived as the medical profession it should be. 
Lenscrafters advertisements of this "no if ands or buts" return policy is a disgrace to our profession. Go get your glasses from an independent Optical where our profession is still respected.

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## Eyecing

I work in a small town for an independent optometrist. The other day we had a patient in the dispensary looking at the designer frames. After spending 20 minutes complaining about how high our DKNY prices are, she left the shop with her prescription- bound for a large retail chain (who shall remain nameless here) where she could get her glasses for a "reasonable price." Our Luxottica frame rep happened to be in the office during this tantrum and, once the unhappy patient left, the rep laughed and shook his head. "She'll be back within two days. I supply frames for ___________ and I know for a _fact_ that your prices are significantly lower." 

He was right. This patient has already referred three patients to our office and a fourth is scheduled later this week. All of these customers have been driving over 40 miles for "better prices." ;) 

Anissa

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## shellrob

I think the perception is that because those offices are in malls or because they advertise so much, they must have lower prices. Of course we all know that isn't true.

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## Lyrix76

> Junebug,
> 
> Please spread the word! I try to tell my patients this, and they think I'm giving them a line just to make a sale!
> 
> Thanks,
> Spexvet


O.k. so I'm not saying that I, as a Lenscrafter's associate agree, at all with our pricing, but as a well rounded individual in the optical industry, I would like to say that we WILL let you come back within those 30 days, & either refund your money, or re-manufacture either new lenses, or replace the frame/lenses, if you aren't completely satisfied with them.  How many optical companies out there, can really say that they would re-do the spectacles within 30 days? Maybe that's yet another reason why Lenscrafters/Luxxoticca has been mainly taking over many of the other optical chains/companies? I would never think to own my own business with the way that the mom & pop stores are going, and all because of huge titans, such as Luxxottica, taking over everything.  Maybe everyone else should think to provide the same true 1 hr. service for most orders, with a 30-Day guarantee & A ONE YEAR BREAKAGE PROTECTION PLAN, just in case something should happen to the customers specs.  Maybe then, Luxxottica wouldn't be so high & mighty, it's all because every other store lets them be.  So please think about that everyone.

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## Jubilee

> O.k. so I'm not saying that I, as a Lenscrafter's associate agree, at all with our pricing, but as a well rounded individual in the optical industry, I would like to say that we WILL let you come back within those 30 days, & either refund your money, or re-manufacture either new lenses, or replace the frame/lenses, if you aren't completely satisfied with them. How many optical companies out there, can really say that they would re-do the spectacles within 30 days? Maybe that's yet another reason why Lenscrafters/Luxxoticca has been mainly taking over many of the other optical chains/companies? I would never think to own my own business with the way that the mom & pop stores are going, and all because of huge titans, such as Luxxottica, taking over everything. Maybe everyone else should think to provide the same true 1 hr. service for most orders, with a 30-Day guarantee & A ONE YEAR BREAKAGE PROTECTION PLAN, just in case something should happen to the customers specs. Maybe then, Luxxottica wouldn't be so high & mighty, it's all because every other store lets them be. So please think about that everyone.


 

Uhmm... ok.

We will work with our patients who aren't satisfied. Heck we have even refunded money before. You aren't the only ones who are doing this. However, you will find that if you work with your patients, form a relationship with them, and spend time walking them through everything, 99.999% of the time satisfaction will already have been guaranteed.

We will remake the lenses if there is a change. If you want to upgrade you pay the difference same as LC. 

LC has money. That is why they are buying everything up. When you have a vertical monopoly, it makes it even easier.

If you were in private practice, you would see how much those lenses cost from the lab. You would be well aware of how much a lab costs, and having to watch every dime to make it work. or maybe I should charge the same as LC and raise prices by 35%. 

As far as the BPP. Lux frame carry a two year warranty on them. What happens if a person's temple breaks after 90 days at LC. Why it is a BPP and you get to pay 50% of costs. After a year, it is outside of warranty period. The person buys them from me, and I will replace them for $10 to cover shipping and handling.  

So maybe it is an abuse situation. I have packages available that include a two year, two time replacement on lenses.. and unlimited on frame.  Still better than 50% of cost.

My hubby still works for LC, and even with his associate's discount, I can get frames cheaper than him using mine..

One hour processing..yes that is a convienence to the patient. However, even LC has shifted away from this to promote their AR and other specialty items. My understanding was when they shifted to Ready when promised, they were expecting at least 50% to not want 1 hr. 

My special orders, including AR,  are a week. Yours are 3.

Don't get me wrong. LC has its place. They do a lot of things right. However they also do a lot of things not so right. I am glad you enjoy it there, and loyal. Just becareful where it gets ya, and don't mention the Optiboard to them. 

Cassandra

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## ilanh

Personally I find it despicable to try to return a custom-made item simply because you found it cheaper elsewhere. That is pure and unadulterated wastage, and eminently unfair to the seller.  Personally I have no qualms about returning items that I buy but I would never, ever return a custom item (REGARDLESS what their assinine policy is).  Incidentally, I have a very generous return policy (3 months) and will work like hell to make the client happy;  I would remake specs up to three times at a personal loss just to make sure that they leave happy.... but I would never refund a single dime because the customer "found a cheaper pair elsewhere".

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## Chris Ryser

> *... but I would never refund a single dime because the customer "found a cheaper pair elsewhere".*


There should not even be a refund..................there should be a replacement only in cases of a defect or wrongly made Rx within a short time frame.

You people are bending backwards to attract customers with warranties that are totally crazy instead of publisizing better quality work.  :D

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## Lyrix76

> Uhmm... ok.
> 
> We will work with our patients who aren't satisfied. Heck we have even refunded money before. You aren't the only ones who are doing this. However, you will find that if you work with your patients, form a relationship with them, and spend time walking them through everything, 99.999% of the time satisfaction will already have been guaranteed.
> 
> We will remake the lenses if there is a change. If you want to upgrade you pay the difference same as LC. 
> 
> LC has money. That is why they are buying everything up. When you have a vertical monopoly, it makes it even easier.
> 
> If you were in private practice, you would see how much those lenses cost from the lab. You would be well aware of how much a lab costs, and having to watch every dime to make it work. or maybe I should charge the same as LC and raise prices by 35%. 
> ...


O.k., so I never said L.C. was perfect, & since I haven't nor will I ever mention Optiboard at my job, it's only fair of me to say that the only reason I'm staying at L.C. is just until I get my license :).  I worked in wholesale for half of my career & trust me, I know the markup on both lenses & frames.  I'll be the first one to tell you that our prices are RIDICULOUS! I never said they weren't.  What I will say is, that it doesn't take my particuliar store 3 wks. to get in AR special order lenses, it takes maybe 2 wks. at the most.  I also never said I enjoyed it there lol, it's my stepping stone & that's all it ever has been.  Also, the only loyalty I have are to the people I work with & not for, it's become a second family for most of us.  I do believe in the customers, & want to help them, I sometimes feel like we're ripping them off (but don't quote me on that ;) )  So I'm basically going to search for a company that doesn't rake people over the coals & work for them instead.  I'm glad that your husband likes his job, for obvious reason's I'm leaving my name out of this, but I can say this I CAN'T WAIT TO LEAVE!!!!!!!!! With that said, as long as the customers are happy, I'm happy & alot of them that I help (can't speak for all our other associates) come back just to see & deal with me & that makes me happy.  So Happy Optics to you, & it's always nice to know that I'm not the only one in the business with alot of the same feelings when it comes to markups :D  Stay Well

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## orangezero

I'm just a little surprised at the outrage LC workers are having with customers taken advantage of this policy.  If you advertise it, over and over, expect it to sink in.

Don't you think someone somewhere thought that perhaps it would drag the whole rest of the optical community down with it, and independent opticals would suffer, but also other places with lower margins (such as walmart, sams, etc) would suffer as well.  Isn't it a win/win??

I think it just plain stupid, but the people making these marketing decisions don't have anything to do with any of the three O's...  They don't care if its a tractor, or a pair of glasses, or a Tshirt.  All they have to do is find a way to sell it and beat the competition.  Professionalism (and I don't mean this as a knock on anyone working at LC) doesn't ever enter the picture.

I hope this doesn't sound to conspiracy theory... but big hitters like luxottica, sadly, know what they are doing.  Whether it be to detriment of us all or not.

I know the place I'm working at know is stupid enough (or smart, who knows) to agree to this policy as well, but they try like heck to get the patients into something different.

Despite it being said continuously, don't buy luxottica frames, its just suicide in the long term.  Does Royal Crown Cola buy Coke products???

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## Chris Ryser

> *................................, I sometimes feel like we're ripping them off (but don't quote me on that ;) ) ........................I can say this I CAN'T WAIT TO LEAVE!!!!!!!!!*


This just about say's it all for one LC employee.

Often selling discontinued models at high prices they can afford to have a liberal refund policy that must even include the price of the lenses.

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## tara

Did you know that the company allows people to return the glasses at their own associates risk. The associate gets councelled if they are receiving to many returns. It is calculated under the remake report. They must find a way to do it right the first time or..... Also when those returns come through the frames go back on the board if they look like they can be salvaged. The customer is getting used glasses at that point with an unused price.

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## Chris Ryser

> *The customer is getting used glasses at that point with an unused price*.


That could be grounds for another Lux and LC bashing if it stands up.

Arn't they also selling returned frames taken back by reps from independents in their stores?      :hammer:

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## tara

I don't know about them using independent returns but about 1 year ago they had started the program to put saleable merch back on the floor with a regular price tag on it.  We were to use our judgement as to whether it could be sold again or not...my judgement was to put none of them back on the board because it was against my believes to put them back.  After a period of time I had no choice because they began tracking it and they would give you the talk if you didn't return a certain percentage back to the floor...  I left the company soon after they started tracking and it was the best move I made.

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## GOS_Queen

> Arn't they also selling returned frames taken back by reps from independents in their stores? :hammer:


 
Yes they are - when Armani left lux, all the independants sent their stock to lux...who flushed  it through LC with a misc. sku number ...  eventually, the frames became part of the eyewear package section but not until we sold many of those "dogs" to people at full price!

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## GOS_Queen

> Did you know that the company allows people to return the glasses at their own associates risk. *The associate gets councelled if they are receiving to many returns. It is calculated under the remake report.* They must find a way to do it right the first time or..... Also when those returns come through the frames go back on the board if they look like they can be salvaged. The customer is getting used glasses at that point with an unused price.


 
Yes, the only tv advertisement the company is doing is promoting the customers choice to change their mind as many times as they want in 30 days - no risk to the customer .... but severe consequences to the associate ...  :(

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## rep

Surely everybody understands that every frame return you send back to ANY frame company are cleaned up and sold to someone else. 

It does not mean that they are "used frames", they still have the warranty, if they are not in resaleable condition they are not given credit and are returned back to the account. 

Posting that one company has "used frames" on a public web site is libelous and is no different than many people who purchase frames returned from another optician that have been displayed in the dispensary. 

The only one's who have any thing to say are those who order new frames with every order and I would bet that that is less than 5
% of the OB members. 

You don't get to order "new" clothing, shoes, jewelry, hats, or other personal accessories when you buy them and purchasing eyewear is no different. That's why they are displayed - so they will be purchased. 


Rep

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## griffin

We always had a sign in the lobby of our Wholesale Lab........."your glasses will not be ready in an hour".....quality,quality,quality.

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## k12311997

> We always had a sign in the lobby of our Wholesale Lab........."your glasses will not be ready in an hour".....quality,quality,quality.


There is an optical in our market that has a yellow pages ad that says something similar.

when I worked for LC we tried our best for quality but so many of the jobs we ran when we were busy 25 - 40 job starts in one hour could have been better if we were allowed to take the time to pay a little attention to detail.

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## Johns

> Surely everybody understands that every frame return you send back to ANY frame company are cleaned up and sold to someone else. 
> 
> It does not mean that they are "used frames",


 
I'm sorry, but yes.  it IS a used frame.  Because you choose to call it something else, it does not change what it is.

I've got a 2007 car w/ just over 31,000 miles on it, if I trade it in, and it still looks brand new, and is in "resaleable condition", do you want to pay a new car price for it ?

Get real...

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## rep

..................every frame on your board is brand new and has never been tried on by anyone? 

or  every frame you sell is fresh from the factory?

Based on your definition if it has  - it's used.

No one said that those returns had been worn -  other than to try them on to determine if they were suitable. If they had been worn any length of time they would have scratches, marks and dents and  they probably would  not be in resaleable condition.  

Rep

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## HarryChiling

> I think it just plain stupid, but the people making these marketing decisions don't have anything to do with any of the three O's... They don't care if its a tractor, or a pair of glasses, or a Tshirt. All they have to do is find a way to sell it and beat the competition. Professionalism (and I don't mean this as a knock on anyone working at LC) doesn't ever enter the picture.


Absolutely correct.




> Maybe everyone else should think to provide the same true 1 hr. service for most orders, with a 30-Day guarantee & A ONE YEAR BREAKAGE PROTECTION PLAN, just in case something should happen to the customers specs. Maybe then, Luxxottica wouldn't be so high & mighty, it's all because every other store lets them be. So please think about that everyone.


Beat the competition, thats all this gimmick is designed to do.  That's what all their gimmicks are designed to do.  They are not high and mighty for this and lyrinx if you truly believe that they are going to control optical forget about going for your license, becasue like orangezero said professionalism doesn't ever enter the picture and they would be the first to get rid of licensure and being that you work for them you are not allowed to have a genuine opinion unless approved by LC.  Also if you truly like it there don't ever leave because they don't hire you back if you leave and work for a competitor. (at least thats what I have heard)

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## LKahn

The FTC has rules for this issue.

As I remember, there are at least 5 categories for consumer products
New (never owned or titled) (warranty card has not been sent)Open Box (customer return or display)Used (customer return)Refurbished (could be new, open box or used)DefectiveThe rules call for you to identify the item as to it's status correctly.

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## LENNY

> The FTC has rules for this issue.
> 
> As I remember, there are at least 5 categories for consumer products
> New (never owned or titled) (warranty card has not been sent)Open Box (customer return or display)Used (customer return)Refurbished (could be new, open box or used)DefectiveThe rules call for you to identify the item as to it's status correctly.


GOOD POST!

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## DragonLensmanWV

> We always had a sign in the lobby of our Wholesale Lab........."your glasses will not be ready in an hour".....quality,quality,quality.


Yeah, we tell people that it will be two to four hours, depending if there's any tinting to be done. I have seen many "sunglasses" that people got at LC in an hour that are only maybe 20% density, because that's all the tint it would take in the time allotted. That's why we sell so much polarized, not only because it is superior.
OTOH, I have produced stock sv lenses for people in five minutes, if they're in a real hurry. Gotta love the one-cut edgers!:cheers:

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## Barry Santini

> We always had a sign in the lobby of our Wholesale Lab........."your glasses will not be ready in an hour".....quality,quality,quality.


I think this statement and its like are simplistic...

Quality is what you do...not everyone needs at every juncture the best in quality. I adjust my services based on the situation...I'm less "broad-brush stroked" about anything I do.

Quality is not what you say...its what you do! If it was what you say...then Davis vision could trumpet their Colts certification...and trump me!

But...Davis will never be good...nor any chain, as long as the labor pool at large is so weak for dispensing opticians.

My 2 cents...what yours?

Barry

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## EyeFitWell

I have to agree with Barry.
I do think that being rushed _can_ produce lower quality things, but doesn't always.  If that were true, then *what would your opinion be of an optician who takes 18 hours to edge your lenses?*  Are those lenses higher quality?  I think not, the optician doesn't know what they're doing!
In truth, edging lenses takes, what, 20 minutes in total?  And only two or three of that is your work, then you let the machine take over.  So, get a pair started over here, start another over there, and that's how it's done in an LC lab.
Don't get me wrong, I am NOT a fan of the "chains" but I don't think that a one hour delivery means low quality.  Especially since my husband ran a LC lab for several years, and I checked his work behind him (before we were dating!) and he NEVER put out anything that was of low quality or accuracy.  He did a great job, and all his work looked beautiful.

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## Johns

> ..................every frame on your board is brand new and has never been tried on by anyone? 
> 
> or every frame you sell is fresh from the factory?
> 
> Based on your definition if it has - it's used.
> 
> Rep


I don't recall defining "used" as trying them on; no more than I would say that a car that has been test driven was a used car.

The discussion was centered on the LC return policy.  Yes, my deifinition of "used" is when someone buys a pair of glasses, they take them home, wear them, and then  return them anytime after that.

And while we're on returns...Yes, I did receive a frame from Lux that had an Rx in it.  It's not only your company, but other big companies that I used to buy from as well.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

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## Fezz

> ..................every frame on your board is brand new and has never been tried on by anyone? 
> 
> or every frame you sell is fresh from the factory?
> Rep


 
I can't speak for Johns, but that could be a very true statement. There are plenty of companies out there that do not take frames back as returns unless they are truly defective. I buy from a few companies that give me very good pricing because they don't do this. I buy what I think will sell, I take responsibility for my purchases, they do not take returns, I get great prices and FRESH, UNUSED FRAMES!

Novel concept?

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## griffin

> I think this statement and its like are simplistic...
> 
> Quality is what you do...not everyone needs at every juncture the best in quality. I adjust my services based on the situation...I'm less "broad-brush stroked" about anything I do.
> 
> Quality is not what you say...its what you do!
> 
> My 2 cents...what yours?
> 
> Barry


 
I have worked for several Wholesale labs for 22 years....quality does count and also knowing your accounts.  When you are dispensing to the public they are looking at cosmetics not the true product.  Everything looks good...so it must be ok.  There is a trail behind the lenses that are produced and it must be an efficient and effective trail.  At the lab I currently work at we produce approximate 1200 pairs a day, and the specialty coating and edging is impecable.  Glasses will not be ready in an hour, but they could be produced in our lab and have been.  It's not a simplistic statement just rightfully so, explaining a true wholesale lab.

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## Bill West

> I'm sorry, but yes. it IS a used frame. Because you choose to call it something else, it does not change what it is.
> 
> I've got a 2007 car w/ just over 31,000 miles on it, if I trade it in, and it still looks brand new, and is in "resaleable condition", do you want to pay a new car price for it ?
> 
> Get real...


Wow John how do you do it, an optician with a *BRAND NEW CAR*, a 2007 no less. I bet you got all them miles on it by traveling around to all the LC's and buying glasses and wearing them a couple of weeks then getting your money back. I think I'll do that next time I see a LC. If we all did that a few times it might mean more used frames for everybody. 
I offer no warranties and never give money back. Makes me wonder how busy I would get if I did. I will say this, when I'm working I'm making $$$$.
If I hired the same kind of people that work at these places I would have to swap and give money back too. Hey I've seen monkey's that would be better employees then *some, not all,* of theses folk. 
Shoe fits, wear it. *But as this ole slow,stupid country boy always says,"it's them other folks being slack that keeps me doing so well".* So let me encourage them chains, keep up what you're doing, *I need the money.*
*I lov chain stores. :shiner:*

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## eyepod

> What a ridiculous policy. What other custom made product that the consumer chooses is returnable for no reason other than "I changed my mind"? The hearing aid business will attest to the misery that their retun policy has done to their industry. Do we really want to follow that poor example. In an era where we are trying to increase our professsionalism why resort to hard core sales tactics. We're finally realizing our services are worth money, we now actually charge for repairs now. Is the consumer not responsible for their own decision making? So maybe I should be able to hire a house painter, I choose a color, the painter paints it. I pay for it. Then 25 days later I can call the painter and say "I'm not in love with the color. Come out and re-do the entire job in another color for free." I don't think so.
> Are we a profession, or what?


Yes, we are a profession and we deserve to be paid properly for our services, however, we also depend on return customers and if we tick them off they will go elsewhere for their eyecare needs.  Honoring a return policy shows the customer that you care about them and that we will stand behind what we sell.   It developes patient loyalty.

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## shellrob

There's a difference between honoring a return policy for a reson other than they just don't like them. If there was an ongoign problem with the glasses, I could understand a refund, but to return a pair of glasses just because they don't like them? Not a chance.......that's ridiculous.

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## Barry Santini

> Maybe everyone else should think to provide the same true 1 hr. service for most orders, with a 30-Day guarantee & A ONE YEAR BREAKAGE PROTECTION PLAN, just in case something should happen to the customers specs.


Let me get this straight: The customer waits 1-2 years to get their eyes checked...

...and then they may not be satisfied unless they get their eyewear in an hour?

Why would any reasonable person think that way?

My warranty is two years on defects, lenses and frames...no extra charge! Scratches aren't defects unless you purchase TD2 or Alize (cleargard) coatings.

Give them superior expertise, and let them go to the competition...the clients you *really* want will be back!

barry

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## Barry Santini

> I offer no warranties and never give money back. Makes me wonder how busy I would get if I did. I will say this, when I'm working I'm making $$$$.


I won't ever hesitate to give a refund. As far as I'm concerned, when only a refund will due (from the client's perspective), then our *working* business relationship is over, and my responsibility is to GET THEM OUT THE DOOR ASAP....so i can go on and take proper care of the *next* waiting client, who will appreciate my services.

Again, I call this *weeding*, and it's just as important for a healthy practice as it is for a healthy garden.

my two cents, what's yours?

barry

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## EyeFitWell

> Maybe everyone else should think to provide the same true 1 hr. service for most orders, with a 30-Day guarantee & A ONE YEAR BREAKAGE PROTECTION PLAN, just in case something should happen to the customers specs.


I think enough has been said about the one hour service and the 30 day returns.
But this one year *Breakage Protection Plan*,
Why are you bringing this up like a benefit to the customer? It's a _rip off_ _to the customer!_

If I buy a Luxottica frame and sell it in my independent optical shop, I can offer my patients a one year warranty, for free, no charge for replacements, as this is what Luxottica offers me. But Luxottica sells their frames to stores *they own* and because it's "too hard to keep up with the invoices" they let you buy it again for half off if it's defective??? 

Lets see, buy the frame from the company that makes it, pay more up front (when the store is buying it for WAY less), and get no warranty.
Or, buy the frame from your nice helpful optician down the street, pay less, and get a better warranty?? Where's the sense in that?

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## LKahn

My Observation,

The motive of* LC 30 day return policy* is to limit the returns to 30 days. Listening to comment over the past year, it appears a fairly large number of consumers had grown to expect unlimited service for an unlimited period of time. 
The *Breakage Protection Plan* is really not much different than an extended warranty that is sold by a Best Buy or Sears. It sounds like a great source of additional profit. The consumer makes the decision if this is a good value to "them."

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## FVCCHRIS

> Lenscrafters' positioning in the market is unique. They do not (generally) seem to be positioning themselves in relationship to their competition. 
> 
> They don't say: "We're cheaper"
> They don't say: "We're better"
> They don't say: "We're friendlier"
> They used to say: "We're faster" but they don't seem to emphasize that any longer.
> 
> Their message seems to be (these days), simply: "We're HERE, and you should come to us!" They don't make many promises, but they do offer that return policy and generally quick turn-around time.
> 
> ...


Great post!:cheers:

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## LKahn

What you are describing is called positioning. They (LC) are clearly defining who they are, what they sell and making the consumer comfortable going there. Additionally, they have taken there consumer policies and celebrating them loudly promoting them as benefits. I believe you call this marketing.

So the question remains for most independents on this board, What does your marketing look or sound like? Do you have a plan?

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## FVCCHRIS

Look at the original post including the date!  Funny how the word Lenscrafters provokes such a continued response.  :Eek:    Chris..

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## LKahn

3 names seem to get most folks going Lux, Costco and W. The amazing thing is how little folks seem to *understand* about large retail optical. We hear a great number of stories and comments. But, very little about what are the underlying factors driving the growth of the business.

One fact learned from the VCA, Large chains do 3 prescriptions for each 1 prescription an independent does each day. At a 3 to 1 ratio it is a matter of time before this changes the face of the marketplace on a very large scale. 

Most independents fail to market and fail to plan in a formal sense. One of the common behaviors of successful firms are formal written plans. 





> Look at the original post including the date! Funny how the word Lenscrafters provokes such a continued response.  Chris..

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## T KNIGHTON

thank you, Its not that customer that had to pay for his mistake, it is all the others that payed the extra.

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## T KNIGHTON

If a customer has been unhappy with ther purchase. I have always been willing to change the frame and or lenses to make them happy and give them an exceptional experience in my offiice.  Though I may have lost all of my profit on that perticular customer.  I may have won them as a cust for a long time.  Also I can only remember a small handfull of customers that I have this happen with.  IT makes you wonder why LC is willing to spend millions on advertising on something we have no problem with.

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## DocInChina

> Also I can only remember a small handfull of customers that I have this happen with. IT makes you wonder why LC is willing to spend millions on advertising on something we have no problem with.


The reason they spend millions on advertising this is that it makes the consumer aware that a problem can occur or they may be unsatisfied. This eyeglass "fear factor" is just being played on. The fact that they advertise it and the small guys do not is a brilliant marketing plan. Just because you offer the same service does not mean the consumers in your market are aware of it. 

Doc

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## EyeFitWell

I hate that kind of advertizing too.  The other one that kills me is a local office's ad on the radio that they give you FREE CONTACT LENS trials.  Well, no duh, so does everyone else!

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## Bill West

*I'm glad they got you not me!*





> I bought some glasses from Lenscrafters, about 3 weeks ago and now wish to return them. (Everything's fine, technically. I found an almost identical pair at a local independent for about 1/2 of the price, with another chunk taken out by insurance - in total, about 1/6 the price of my Lenscrafters glasses, with hi-index plastic, instead of poly. I like the clarity of the hi-index plastic, over the poly (A little distorting!). My script is OU -5.25, by the way.) 
> 
> In general, how hassle-free is their "30-day - No ifs, ands, or buts!" return policy? I feel like the evil customer-from-hell, but I'd rather not keep these glasses, now. (Of course, next time, I'll weigh all of my options BEFORE making a purchase. :) )

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