# Optical Forums > Canadian Discussion Forum >  CBC is looking into the optical industry.............................

## Chris Ryser

On December 23 got an interesting e-mail from an associate producer of the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) on the subject of vertical integration in the eyeglass industry. Following is part of the text:


> I'm an associate producer at CBC TV in Toronto. I'm doing some researchabout vertical integration in the eyeglasses industry and came acrosssome of your posts on Optiboard. I was hoping that we could speak on thephone for my research. This would just be on background -- it's early inmy research so I'm not at the point where I need to quote anyone -- butit would be wonderful to get your thoughts on this issue.


I am not mentioning names at this point. We had a quite long telephone conversation. They are just at the start of putting together some show on the subject and are doing a research, apparently triggered by a lot of consumer demands. OptiBoard seems to reach quite far these days.

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## Jacqui

Very good  :Smile:

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## Rob Brown

Finally some National media attention on these issues?

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## Chris Ryser

Actually it looks like it. I just got another e-mail today on the subject, which I think I may post here, so that you can see that they seem to be serious about it. However they need some participation.

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## Rob Brown

> Actually it looks like it. I just got another e-mail today on the subject, which I think I may post here, so that you can see that they seem to be serious about it. However they need some participation.


Keep 'er coming Chris - certainly can't do any harm.

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## Chris Ryser

> *Keep 'er coming Chris - certainly can't do any harm.
> *



Just send them some interesting reading :    http://www.hprac.org/en/projects/res...fessionals.pdf

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## idispense

..

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## Rob Brown

In a perfect world, opposing size really shouldn't matter when it comes regulators. Although their scope is vast covering many areas, their main purpose/initiative for existence is to 'regulate' in a world without interference and also maintain a level fair playing field for all involved.

However, as we all know, this isn't the case here. The large size and deep pockets of such a vertically integrated mother ship company allows them to carve and shape the landscape to align with their corporate goals by simply writing a few large cheques to a few key people in these 'associations' and 'regulatory' bodies. They even very cleverly disguise this act as a term called 'sponsorship'.

This is the same chameleon company that is supplying and supporting the illegal internet retailers that compete unfairly against the legitimate, regulated law biding brick and mortar operators. Yet they continue to supply, deny, and spin telling customers it's other manufacturers supplying and not them. 

As idispense indicated in the last post, although I don't completely agree that this is how the cards may fall, the reality is the industry continues to erode for those honest professionals trying to survive and provide top notch ophthalmic services as a professional. With further deterioration, survival through cannibalization may be the result. Support the smaller independent companies people!!! 

Similarly, where is the transparency and cohoonas with these regulatory bodies and associations?

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## Chris Ryser

If you have read the letter in full, mentioned in post 6:  

R*ead the whole letter...............you can not stop reading, like a thriller at: * http://www.hprac.org/en/projects/res...fessionals.pdf

you will understand the basics of Candian opticianry, and may be want to make an effort to get some changes. OptiBoard can be the ideal place for fast communication.

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## idispense

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## idispense

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## inside out

They should also be talking to a front line indepentant Optician.

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## chip anderson

Trust me, when CBS gets through it's going to show all of us brick and mortar types and being a price gouging, money grubbing bunch of incomptents.     The mall people as being legitimate outlets and the mail order people as being the blessed saviour of the common man.
Ain't no way us poor struggling independents are gonna come out being the darlings of the industry.

Chip

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## Chris Ryser

> *They should also be talking to a front line indepentant Optician.
> *


That is exactly what they want to. That is why I started this post. I was asked if I knew any body that would give them some information, specially on vertical integration into the optical industry. So if you a so called front line optician why don't you come forward and talk to them, thats what they want.

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## Craig

I can put them in touch with the attorneys looking into the monopoly of Transitions and Essilor.  HOw about some fraud I discovered and have not yet had any attorney general interested in taking them on?
How about price collusion on the part of the Big ??- have you noticed all the prices of lenses and coatings are with in a few dollars of each other, that is not an accident.

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## NorthStar

> Trust me, when CBS gets through it's going to show all of us brick and mortar types and being a price gouging, money grubbing bunch of incomptents. The mall people as being legitimate outlets and the mail order people as being the blessed saviour of the common man.
> Ain't no way us poor struggling independents are gonna come out being the darlings of the industry.
> 
> Chip


I agree.  This CBC newsarticle (likely for their Marketplace show) will not be about the vertical integration of the eyecare industry - that's just for background info.  I bet it will be singing the praises of internet dispensing based in BC.

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## Chris Ryser

That is a good idea...............feed them some ideas, I guess it is the same in Canada for sure

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## inside out

well chip anderson has a point. "once they get through with the bricks and morter..". I believe their intent is to get a story. I dont believe their is a purely moral motive here. So if I discuss what I know and give my name to the info the that I present. Who is going to help me pay for all the lawyer bills that I will have just to stay in business? If I pass the hat who is going to chip in for the 500,000 to win this thing. Who is going to stand by me when I am interviewed by CBS? Who is going to be my PR manager advising me how to send out the message? No general wins the war by himself. He needs his Army. What idoit runs into the front lines alone? Hey I was trained as Optician. I am self educationed in all other respects. If you notice when the Nationals play the game they have a lawyer and PR guy by their side. If you want to front someone for this job you have to back him with funds, PR (public relations), and a good admin lawyer. It would be fun though to see the CBC visit the national office in Winnpeg and ask "How does the OAC and NACOR maintain the indepentent autonomy when their offices are just accross the hall fron each other and they share the same office machines?" I would like to know the answer as to why the OAC bylaws state that in between meeting of the board of director that three people, the executive (president, vice president, and treasurer)have all the powers of the board. The OAC board only meets twice a years. So for most of the year it is these three people that hold the power over this million dollar a year budget. The rest of the board is not even aware of some of the decisions made. Non elected advisor know more info of what is really going on than elected board members. The OAC is registrated as a non profit organization. I would like to see this organization reviewed by indepentant parties. I would be fantastic if there was a govt rep on the OAC and NACOR boards.

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## inside out

Here is a real place to start look at the partnership between OAC and Transition. If we could only have on camera the after meeting bar tabs and who was at the table. I have witnessed way too many. CBC should come to a OAC vision con-ed. Sit in on a NACOR or OAC, or OCC meeting. See the link on how these big industry dollars effect on the provincial regulators losing battle to maintain their own autonomy. I think that these types of conflict of interests are so inbred in the industry that they are not even aware that it is wrong. Maybe that is me just being nieve. Next thing you know Coastal contacts will have its own chair at these meetings too. I have to ask why are the national bodies at the con-eds promoting internet dispensing? Will there be a day when they have gold member status. Maybe they will get a table at the show so they can head hunt for hungry out of work Opticians that have lost their jobs because of deregulation.

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## Chris Ryser

> *1)  Who is going to help me pay for all the lawyer bills that I will have just to stay in business? If I pass the hat who is going to chip in for the 500,000 to win this thing. 
> *
>  2)  *The OAC is registrated as a non profit organization. I would like to see this organization reviewed by indepentant parties. I would be fantastic if there was a govt rep on the OAC and NACOR boards.
> 
> *



1)  Most probably nobody

2)  Get support of the people that can do something or at least try if you can get them interested enough, without being dragged into a law suite. 
Contact yours and other MPs in Ottawa, there are over 300 of them. Among them are a lot of newcomers that might be interested to try something to get into public view. I have posted all their e-mail addresses and which constituency they represent on my website at: 
http://optochemicals.com/canadian_parliament.htm

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## inside out

Thanks Chris so far I am getting a lot of "you do with no help" I know that answer. I was looking for a little more expertise from this forum. At least the congradulatory comment sounded nice.
 Here lies the last Optician may he rest in low Abbe. Executed for trying to save the profession of independent Opticians. It is reported that the firing squand severely wounded him before the kill shot as the gunmans glasses were all supplied by online internet dispensers. Many tears were shed by suppliers that had to reduce the price of their wholesale goods. All the other Optician shook their heads and said too bad he was right. They then donned their hairnets and fliped burgers and lowered the fri basket. Excuse me say can you tell me whats on the menu I cant read the fine print.

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## Chris Ryser

> *Many tears were shed by suppliers that had to reduce the price of their wholesale goods. All the other Optician shook their heads and said too bad he was right. They then donned their hairnets and fliped burgers and lowered the fri basket. Excuse me say can you tell me whats on the menu I cant read the fine print.
> 
> *



No optician has to get shot.................at the worst they just have to starve. The wholesalers do not have to lower prices, the onliner do not buy from them that is done at the lab in China and they get the stuff at lower prices than the local distributors can. Then it gets sent to Canada and customs does not even look at it.

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## inside out

They are being shot behind the scenes. It is more merciful to be shot than starve. I was speaking metaphorically. Suddenly you never hear from them. I have talked with owner of supply companies. They see the dollars they are losing. They are tempted. And when there is no more bricks and morter independants left who will buy their stuff. They will join or be assimilated. Anyways I think you need a sense of humor with all this. People being starved in consentration camps often used humor to help them survive the worst of times. Start practicing "welcome to McDonalds may I take your order" Come on you got to laugh at death in the face. Really we are all corraled behind the same fence. Our only last hope is to get elected on our provincial regulatory board. That is where the power is. My one glimmer of hope is the start forums within this board and other where progressive morally honest individual Optician from every province will gather to over throw the current old guard OAC servants within their respective regulatory body. We need just a handful of courageous leaders and many supporters. We could start a thread for every province. I will try in Sask. Who will lead in the other provinces? Call your friends. Get them reading this board. Let them hear what is going on. Then meet with them face to face. Start a process to get elected. I tell you the legal power is held at the provincial regulatory board level. We may fail. And that hurts the ego. I know. But if we dont try we will always fail. Who will try.....? I have been shot down but I am willing to try again. "Rise and Rise again until lambs become lions!"

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## 2o/20

> They are being shot behind the scenes. It is more merciful to be shot than starve. I was speaking metaphorically. Suddenly you never hear from them. I have talked with owner of supply companies. They see the dollars they are losing. They are tempted. And when there is no more bricks and morter independants left who will buy their stuff. They will join or be assimilated. Anyways I think you need a sense of humor with all this. People being starved in consentration camps often used humor to help them survive the worst of times. Start practicing "welcome to McDonalds may I take your order" Come on you got to laugh at death in the face. Really we are all corraled behind the same fence. Our only last hope is to get elected on our provincial regulatory board. That is where the power is. My one glimmer of hope is the start forums within this board and other where progressive morally honest individual Optician from every province will gather to over throw the current old guard OAC servants within their respective regulatory body. We need just a handful of courageous leaders and many supporters. We could start a thread for every province. I will try in Sask. Who will lead in the other provinces? Call your friends. Get them reading this board. Let them hear what is going on. Then meet with them face to face. Start a process to get elected. I tell you the legal power is held at the provincial regulatory board level. We may fail. And that hurts the ego. I know. But if we dont try we will always fail. Who will try.....? I have been shot down but I am willing to try again. "Rise and Rise again until lambs become lions!"


you are a brave soldier  but the army of opticians where are they! no where  to be heard leave alone been  seen,  like ostriches with there heads in the sand   greedy as usual making their money unaware that the gravy train is going to a STOP

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## ex-optician

> you are a brave soldier  but the army of opticians where are they! no where  to be heard leave alone been  seen,  like ostriches with there heads in the sand   greedy as usual making their money unaware that the gravy train is going to a STOP


I would suggest we inform as many opticians as possible about this discussion forum. I remember when the OAC web site had a forum before it was removed. I missed having this opportunity to express views and was pleasantly surprised when I found the OptiBoard. When opticians attend the various provincial and national events, step up to the microphone and put forward the motion to have a link to the OptiBoard  placed on their home page web site. At the moment it is" united we stand, divided we fall". I would gladly do it myself but I left the business reluctantly years ago when I realized it was turning into a dead end. No longer licensed and a member of my provincial association. I am still passionate about our profession and would like to see changes and willing to help out in any way. There are no repercussions being threatened at me!

Cheers  :Wink:

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## inside out

Thanks you understand ex optician. They wont even let you get to the mic. I have spoken out at the meetings. no one hears/listens/believes. Its like the Titanic no one believes it can sink. It has to be grassroots we need newletters/mass email/faxes going out to all opticians. The nationals are trying to control the media. We have to let the word out. We need centers in every province. Let Optician know and let them be heard. We need to collect contact info and send out the word. A cry accross the land.

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## inside out

To ex-optician
Thanks ex -optician I will keep you in mind as things progress.

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## NorthStar

CBC Marketplace  Internet Sales

The CBC Market Place investigative team is working on a report comparing the cost
of internet eyewear to the cost of purchasing from other sources. In preparation,
CAO has retained a public relations firm to prepare a strategy with a unified
response and tools for CAO, provincial associations and members. If contacted by a
media source to discuss optometric practices and internet dispensing, it is 
suggested to direct the inquiry to a provincial association or CAO and our 
identified spokespeople will respond. We also ask that you review public education
material provided by CAO, provincial associations and other sources to educate
patients about the considerations when purchasing eyeglasses and contact lenses on
the internet. An update will follow in the next issue of In Touch.

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## NorthStar

Tune in next week. Tonight's marketplace is promoting next week's show on the price of eyewear. "What about buying online?" "Find out what your eye doctor does not want you to know."

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## edKENdance

> Tune in next week. Tonight's marketplace is promoting next week's show on the price of eyewear. "What about buying online?" "Find out what your eye doctor does not want you to know."


Just watched tonight's episode and saw the preview.  This should be interesting.  I watch Marketplace and enjoy it.  I hope this doesn't eff up my enjoyment of the show.

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## uncut

The mainstream media has no journalistic integrity, in my world.       

I am still waiting for them to follow up on all those "news" stories about ........."I can see the clock radio when I wake up in the morning"...........

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## lensguy

I just hope whatever happens, we have a better argument than this!

http://www.cbc.ca/edmontonam/episode...lasses-online/

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## idispense

...

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## fjpod

I hate to be the pessimist here...but nothing good will come of this.

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## mike.elmes

Marketplace this friday.....6pm

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## charan

well i recieved an email from the OAC, they asking to call CBC to inquire why opticians weren't interviewed, I'm sorry but i think its a little too late to ask Opticians to call CBC, Its really sad this forum have had this thread for a long time and we hear from OAC now?!!

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## uncut

Amazing.....this evolved from exploring "vertical integretion" to "framed, what the industry does not want you to know about your eyeglasses".  

Can't wait for the out of context quotes from Chris! :Smile:

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## edKENdance

Looks like Marketplace is going after Lux.  They ran a short story tonight as a prelude to tomorrow nights episode.  They're also using Bruce (are you effin' kidding me?!?!) Bergez as an expert.  They mentioned that Marketplace bought a pair of glasses from Clearly Contacts that cost almost 200.00 and didn't fit properly.

I'm kind of breathing a little easier.

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## ScottV

> Looks like Marketplace is going after Lux.  They ran a short story tonight as a prelude to tomorrow nights episode.  They're also using Bruce (are you effin' kidding me?!?!) Bergez as an expert.  They mentioned that Marketplace bought a pair of glasses from Clearly Contacts that cost almost 200.00 and didn't fit properly.
> 
> I'm kind of breathing a little easier.




http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2012/framed/

Oh boy.....

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## Chris Ryser

> *well i recieved an email from the OAC, they asking to call CBC to inquire why opticians weren't interviewed,* *I'm sorry but i think its a little too late to ask Opticians to call CBC**, Its really sad this forum have had this thread for a long time and we hear from OAC now?!!
> *



I was contacted by the CBC just before Christmas and decided to tell OptiBoard members about it on the Canadian Forum the week after NewYear. (Started by Chris Ryser, 01-06-2012 02:11 PM).

However the general apathy of recognizing any serious matter and participate in some action is a fact. When it is too late we can cry. The same goes for yesterday's post on the GeneralForum posting a press release about Coastals 115% increase in sales over last years same period.

I am making this post, just to be on record.


marketplace can be seen on-line as of tomorrow Saturday 11am------------------------>    http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/

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## NorthStar

What Chains, if any, advertise on CBC?

This story is similar to the National coverage.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/02/23/marketplace-prescription-glasses.html

JC they use Bergez as their expert "insider" - not much credibility there. Given the "eyewear grossly overpriced" angle, it will be odd if Hakim, a well known Canadian low priced discounter offering the lower price and quality option for decades before the internet, is not even mentioned. Looks like Lux gets hit along with optometry. On the preview, even Coastal gets hit - Marketplace bought a pair for almost $200, much more than the advertised "under $50," which did not fit and they got no help from the service line. Should be interesting to see the entire show.

What chains advertise on CBC? Lux doesn't.

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## idispense

no one pointed out that it is illegal in Ontario

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## mike.elmes

What a joke....Bergez? He should be blackballed in our industry. Isn't his wife still in jail? Luxottica has created a fashion demand for it's designer brands such as Prada DG and many others. Lenscrafters has always had the BIG prices. They are overpriced, but continue to discount those exaggerated prices.

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## idispense

..

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## inside out

The hero of this show is Bruce Berges of Great Glasses and he is claiming to  be a hero as he went to jail for standing up to high prices. He is planning to go to BC as he likes the government and the market there!

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## lensguy

> The hero of this show is Bruce Berges of Great Glasses and he is claiming to  be a hero as he went to jail for standing up to high prices. He is planning to go to BC as he likes the government and the market there!


http://www.greatglassesbc.com/

How sad is this?

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## lensguy

Nice timing with the CBC show! I wonder if he will get to plug his new location and grand opening specials!  

50% off 3 for 1 
or
6 for 1!!!

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## charan

> http://www.greatglassesbc.com/
> 
> How sad is this?


our own industry is our enemy :( when I see people on this forum talk about how passionate they are about being an optician, I'm sorry but its very hard being passioate about your job when your pocket is full of lint.  This is digesting whats happening to Opticianary.

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## Jacqui

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/video/ca...-28410250.html

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## idispense

..

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## edKENdance

How can someone like Bergez even afford to move across the country and set up stores in BC?  I don't understand how that works at all.  Deregulation seems to be attracting some pretty shady characters.

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## idispense

..

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## idispense

11

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## charan

my analysis of the video (which by the made me sick to my stomach for real)

1. right off the bat he says your glasses cost more than you Ipad? ...so in other words your music is more imporant than your eye  :Confused: 

2.  I wonder if bergez actually called CBC for this story so he can get a plug for his new store in BC

3. If crearly does a good job with their glasses why dont they do progressive glasses anymore?

4. Bruce bergez is coming to bc to sell his 3 pairs for 200, why doesnt he sell these 'generic' for 90 bucks for 3 pairs?

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## Golfnorth

> my analysis of the video (which by the made me sick to my stomach for real)
> 
> 1. right off the bat he says your glasses cost more than you Ipad? ...so in other words your music is more imporant than your eye 
> 
> 2. I wonder if bergez actually called CBC for this story so he can get a plug for his new store in BC
> 
> 3. If crearly does a good job with their glasses why dont they do progressive glasses anymore?
> 
> 4. Bruce bergez is coming to bc to sell his 3 pairs for 200, why doesnt he sell these 'generic' for 90 bucks for 3 pairs?


Let's not fool ourselves. At Great Glasses their average sale was in the $850 area. That's average sale.

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## Golfnorth

Oh and by the way, when Bruce starts making money in B.C. will he be sending any back to Ontario to pay his outstanding fines? As an Ontario taxpayer I'd like to know the answer to this. 

Regards,
Golfnorth

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## idispense

,,

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## Golfnorth

> Write in your question to Melisse, the on staff College lawyer and ask her that question . You might also ask her why Bergez is not in jail serving the second year of what should have been his sentence . Maybe she can explain why he recieved a suspended sentnce for the second year. Might even ask Melisse if she, as College lawyer, objected to the judge suspending sentence and if we could see that in writing . If you are really into writing questions you could even ask Melisse why she has never reported the suspended sentence to the membership. 
> 
> Maybe Melisse is waiting to go up on stage at the next CE event and explain these things in front of the membership.


Write Melisse yourself. I am not your lacky.

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## idispense

..

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## idispense

,,

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## Chris Ryser

> +
> 
> *http://www.greatglassesbc.com/
> 
> How sad is this?
> *



So far his website shows no ratings on http://alexa.com ,   which means not much internet presence.

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## idispense

,,

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## edKENdance

> So far his website shows no ratings on http://alexa.com ,   which means not much internet presence.


He gonna get in more trouble for using those logos.  Is this guy superman or something?!?!

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## NorthStar

IMO she did fine.  This was ambush journalism with editing to give the story the predetermined angle they were looking for.  There was no way the statements you suggested would have made it onto the segment.  They interviewed many optometrists and ECP's that never made it past the editing room, so obviously nobody gave them the kind of quotes they were hoping for.  LC/Lux took the hit and it will make more people consider online.  Unfortunately, Bergez comes out the big winner here which speaks to the credibility of the show.   




> Did College of Optometrists forget that on line vendors are not legal in Ontario? You have to be an Optician or Optometrist to dispense eyewear according to provincial laws. If Ann Landers was alive today she would give that lady 40 lashes with a wet noodle. 
> 
> The College of Optometry needs a better person to represent them in front of the camera and someone who will not squirm under pressure . It takes self confidence and an air of authority not weakness to do that .
> 
> There was a much better answer and message to deliver. Her answers did not cut it . Her answers did more harm than good .

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## idispense

[.

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## gibby2020

> ..............
>  Clearly's warehouse showed many boxes labeled ANNE KLIEN on their shelves . Lux product clearly winds up on the shelves of Coastal . Check Coastal's web site and look at how many other of the Lux brands are at Coastal. 
> 
> Lux sells to you , they sell the same in their own stores and the same product winds up at Coastal . For Lux it is a win win win . If Coastal gains customers that Lux can't sell at one price then either you sell it or your buddy does or Coastal or another interneter sells it . Either way Lux moves the product .
> 
> 
> If the CBC program increases the traffic to Coastal it will not hurt LUX at all , in fact it will help them . 
> 
> And who do you think is also one of the largest internet sellers ? 
> ...


So we as independent ECP's have to change our purchasing habits enmasse. I know that's seems unlikely given the animosity between optoms and opticians but I dont see another way to regain some competitve advantage in the marketplace. Both O's have to realize how much the threat is shared. 
If Lux and the rest cant have their frames in our dispensaries and sell online for less. The consumer is being conditioned view online purchses as sooo much cheaper then sell your frames and lenses (Ess..) there for lower margins! I'm sorry for the reps as I havent been buying for the last yr. No I have to strart sourcing the lenses elsewhere.....

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## idispense

,,

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## idispense

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## ex-optician

We now have a reply from the Ontario Opticians Association in regards to this Market Place broadcast. I am pleasantly surprised. Now if we can just keep the ball rolling nation wide amongst the three O's. Perhaps we might be able to solicit a response from the provincial and federal government bodies who enforced the rules against us to protect the public but neglect to enforce the same rules against unregulated providers! :Furious: 


http://www.ontario-opticians.com/Ontario_Opticians_Association/OOA%20MEDIA%20RELEASE%20Feb%2027%202012.pdf

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## Chris Ryser

> Health Canada 
> www.hc-sc.gc.ca
> 
> Skip to content | Skip to institutional links
> *Common menu bar links*FrançaisHome Contact us Help Search canada.gc.ca 
> Home > Drugs & Health Products > Medical Devices > Medical Devices Active Licence Listing
> Drugs and Health Products
>  Print |  Text Size: S M L XL Help
> *Medical Devices Active Licences Search*Overview What's New (2007-10-10) Archived Licence SearchAdvisories & WarningsContact Us
> ...



link to above page ------------->    http://webprod3.hc-sc.gc.ca/mdll-lim...ctive&lang=eng

I have tried from Coastal.com to eyglasses...........there is nothing to find. Looks like health Canada does not recognize the optical to be under their wings. Maybe anybody else will try from this angle ?

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## idispense

Regulatory bodies have known of these issues for many years . Is there any sincerity ?

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