# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  Do you leave the markings on progressive lenses?

## Happylady

Where I work we used to leave the markings on progressives until we dispensed them. I would explain why they were there to the patient and it was only after I made sure they were lined up correctly that I removed them. With progressives that had AR and thus no markings I used stickers or my own marks. When I made my own I just marked the fitting cross.

Now we have a new person who wants them removed and says 90% of the time they aren't needed. She thinks it looks better if they are delivered to the patient perfectly clean.

I had a woman getting her new lenses yesterday that questioned me why the marks weren't there as she was a repeat patient. I marked them for her at that point.

What do you do where you work? What are your feelings on this?

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## For-Life

I take them off.

I know we are supposed to keep them on, but in reality are we going to triple verify the markings once the patient puts the glasses on?  And, are we maybe putting some doubt into the patients mind when doing so?

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## Leo Hadley Jr

I always left them on so the optician can easily verify measurements and so they can easily adjust the frames on the patients face. It also leads to a conversation with the patient on how these lenses are fitted.
Also, if the lab removes the markings, the optician cleans them anyway so why double the chances of scratches?

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## For-Life

no, of course the lab should leave them on.  I really do not understand what you mean by double the chance of scratching though.

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## tntborden

...to the optician in our office that tries to dispense progressives without the markings in place, one of the first changes I made 6 years ago when I started there.  I consider it just as important as verifying the RX from the lab, everybody is capable of making a mistake either in taking the original seg ht or in writing it on the order form.  We're a high-end practice and our presentation includes a gift wrapped bag for every pair of glasses; I don't believe that having the markings on the lenses for the first 5 minutes of the adjustment process lowers our presentation.

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## chip anderson

While I am guilty of leaving the marks on.  I can recall a pair of polarized lenses that once took me 1 and a half hours to remove the markings.  Patient didn't really like waiting that long.

Chip

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## For-Life

That is one of the main reasons why I think I started taking them off.  I found it really bad with Airwear TD2.  I use good stuff now to take them off, so it is not a problem, but it is going back to it.

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## Happylady

> While I am guilty of leaving the marks on. I can recall a pair of polarized lenses that once took me 1 and a half hours to remove the markings. Patient didn't really like waiting that long.
> 
> Chip


We use All Off to remove the markings. It works extremely well and doesn't damage the lenses at all. The marks come off in less then a minute. There is a review of it in Product Reviews. It is wonderful stuff!

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## FVCCHRIS

I have to agree with those of you who prefer to leave them on. How can we dispense a pair w/o 1st double-checking that the original measurements were correctly requested AND, that the lab then reproduced them as ordered? All the RX power checking and frame adjusting isn't worth squatt if the lenses weren't properly placed in the frame. As far as Chip's concerns though, some are definitely harder to remove than others(Younger poly and polarized), we can always remove ahead of time and then remark with a sharpie. 

We often talk about setting ourselves apart from the competition. Tell the patient what they are and why they're there. I consider the markings an essential part of the dispensing, only removing them after all other adjusting is complete and when it's time for the patient to "see" through them. Chris..

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## Joann Raytar

I take all of the markings off except for the fitting cross and the two 180 marks.

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## Barry Santini

I've found that more and more Essilor lenses' factory applied markings are off..often just slightly less than a mm...

I removed all marking when the uncuts arrive, and mark the circles, block edge and verify in this manner.

No circles or markings are left on the job at delivery...

Why??

Because as long as they work to the client's satisfaction, I'm ok with that.

If they come back and have a need to be re-verified, we put on the markings and confirm. BTW, we always mark down exactly how the glasses finished...even if different than the target parameters.

Glasses slip, tilt, get mangled and stretched, and many cleints get used to different positions. When combined with a fluid Rx, no *one* position is *always* ideal

It is like I've said before...aim for that person's *sweet-spot*, and keep them within the *foul lines*

Barry Santini, ABOM

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## Win C

I do not leave the markings on during delivery to customers.
1) It take some time to remove the markings = waste of time. 
2) I found that customers almost always remark :" What are these markings?" They thought something is wrong with their lenses. They don't like to see markings on their expensive lenses.

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## Bezza

I always leave markings on and so, I hope, do all of our dispensing opticians.....how on earth can you ensure a perfect fit if you dont know where the fitting cross is? If the initial measurements were just a tiny bit off or the lab produced them just a tiny bit off but they still pass checking you can still improve the fit with a little tweaking of pads etc but only if you can see the cross. I mean whats the point of dispensing a pair of top notch varis if your not gonna take the time to ensure they are fitted correctly when the patient collects.

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## Chris Ryser

> *Now we have a new person who wants them removed and says 90% of the time they aren't needed. She thinks it looks better if they are delivered to the patient perfectly clean.*


*Tell her she is right..............................but dead wrong*. You are in a technical and precision minded profession.

Having the markings on the lens will help you checking the position and no customer will object, on the contrary they will understand what you are doing and will be more confident in your service.

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## Win C

> I always leave markings on and so, I hope, do all of our dispensing opticians.....how on earth can you ensure a perfect fit if you dont know where the fitting cross is? If the initial measurements were just a tiny bit off or the lab produced them just *a tiny bit off* but they still pass checking you can still improve the fit with a little tweaking of pads etc but only if you can see the cross. I mean whats the point of dispensing a pair of top notch varis if your not gonna take the time to ensure they are fitted correctly when the patient collects.


How much off are we talking about here? If it's just a tiny bit, I don't think it's going to make much of a difference. 

Horizontal PD off by a tiny bit, say 1mm is well tolerated by patients and most of them are not able to perceive any difference in terms of visual performance. My patients have often asked me to change their old progressive lens into new frames and I warn them that the pd's might be out and they might not be able to as clearly after the transfer. Most of them don't see any difference even when the PD's are off.

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## Bezza

> How much off are we talking about here? If it's just a tiny bit, I don't think it's going to make much of a difference. 
> 
> Horizontal PD off by a tiny bit, say 1mm is well tolerated by patients and most of them are not able to perceive any difference in terms of visual performance. My patients have often asked me to change their old progressive lens into new frames and I warn them that the pd's might be out and they might not be able to as clearly after the transfer. Most of them don't see any difference even when the PD's are off.


I agree for 'most' patients, but there are plenty out there that can notice tiny differences, obviuosly this depends on the Rx, the lens type and the Px. Personally I see fitting as a vitally important part of varifocal dispensing and even if the frame is well fitted at the time of the dispense and all measurements are spot on there is no guarantee that the frame is still set up correctly for your Px when you hand it to them.
I suppose the point i am trying to make here is that there are so many variables that could cause imperfections in fitting that it simply must be checked thoroghly before the Px leaves the practice and the only way to do this is to check the markings are in the right spot when worn by the Px

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## Happylady

I read a study(I can't remember where)that fit a number of people with progressive lenses. On some of them they were fit exactly in front of the pupil. In some they were fit 1.5 millimeters off in either one eye or both(I can't remember which).

The group that were fit exactly had a 95% success rate and the group where the pd was off had a 55% success rate. I think that lots of non adapts are just because the measurements were off, so I do think it is important to get it right.

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## Grubendol

> I take them off.
> 
> I know we are supposed to keep them on, but in reality are we going to triple verify the markings once the patient puts the glasses on?  And, are we maybe putting some doubt into the patients mind when doing so?


We leave them on here, (my old office never had them on).  Personally I much prefer leaving them on, because we do double and triple check the alignment and make sure that their vision is as good as it can be, before removing them.  It also helps us to eliminate a potential problem for a non-adapt, when we can see if the measurements were off either at manufacture in the lab, or by optician error.

We use the Stadtler pen to mark all lenses (since about 80% of our dispenses have AR)

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## EyeFitWell

I leave them on.  How can you adjust nosepads and know for sure you didn't just screw up the progressive unless the marks are there??
Also, it helps me to fine-tune whether or not the glasses are straight, especially if they have asymmetrical eyebrows (which most people do).  We do use the stickers, though, and thus is a quick and easy removal once all has been verified.  
(The other thing I like about the stickers is that it forces the pt to let you adjust them properly before looking at everything and complaining that something isn't right.)

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## EyeFitWell

> We use the Stadtler pen to mark all lenses (since about 80% of our dispenses have AR)


Rock on with your 80% AR!!  That's great!
We've got about 65% here, and my essilor rep says that's kickin' butt!

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## Win C

How many percent of your non-adapt comes from slightly off fitting heights and PDs? 

Everytime I got a complaint or non-adapt, I will verify the PDs and heights but it has nothing to do with fitting heights nor PDs.

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## akeroptical

I leave them on for a simple reason. It helps me with a quick visual glance to know that I am about to dispensing a pair of prog. lenses. 

I have worked with opticians that have them all clean and ready but I found myself having to look at the job ticket to know if I have prog. or perhaps single vision lenses. My approach and the opening statement to the patient will vary depending on the type of lenses they are wearing.

I also like to see them on the patient to make sure that everything is good.

I use regular rubbing alcohol to clean off prog. markings and don't ever have an issue getting the marks off.

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## Chris Ryser

> *I leave them on. How can you adjust nosepads and know for sure you didn't just screw up the progressive unless the marks are there??*


 
*There is a rule that comes from the stone age of progressive history:*

Always adjust the frame to perfection before taking the measurements. In case someone ion the lab changes the adjustment it can be brought back to were it was . Leave the markings on until satisfied everything is correct and only then remove them with a markings remover.

:finger:

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## Samuel Jong

> I take all of the markings off except for the fitting cross and the two 180 marks.


We also mark the reading circle, since not all semi-finished lenses come with the sticker.

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## Robert Martellaro

I leave the template on, for the same reason I check the powers with the Dr.'s written Rx instead of the office order or lab copy- to make sure that I haven't made any mistakes. 

Regards,

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