# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  Seiko Surmount - Whats not to like?

## Fezz

I have been using more and more of the Surmount and I am very pleased with it. My patients seem to like it and I am actually getting the elusive "_WOW_" that has been eluding me when fitting other fancy lenses.

So.................what am I missing?

Are you finding any faults with this lens?

Are you getting the "WOW"?

Are you experiencing the same thing?

Am I just wanting it to work and therefore believeing it is somehow better?

Thoughts, comments, opinions on the lens please!

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## Golfnorth

> I have been using more and more of the Surmount and I am very pleased with it. My patients seem to like it and I am actually getting the elusive "_WOW_" that has been eluding me when fitting other fancy lenses.
> 
> So.................what am I missing?
> 
> Are you finding any faults with this lens?
> 
> Are you getting the "WOW"?
> 
> Are you experiencing the same thing?
> ...


The rep over here from the Seiko Lab that I use always goes to the Supercede as her go to lens. 
I believe the Surmount works well in moderate to higher plus rx's. But if you are having great success then just run with it!

Regards,
Golfnorth

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## jefe

IT must be me -- I've had mixed success with Seiko lenses.  Some people like 'em, some people hate 'em.  I've refit two people in another brand after they told me they couldn't use the Surmount.  It makes me reluctant to use them.

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## Golfnorth

> IT must be me -- I've had mixed success with Seiko lenses. Some people like 'em, some people hate 'em. I've refit two people in another brand after they told me they couldn't use the Surmount. It makes me reluctant to use them.


Use the Supercede with confidence. With high myopes fit them a bit lower than centre pupil is my advice.
Everytime I put on my Supercedes the comfort I get is like putting on a pair of slippers.

Regards,
Golfnorth

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## Craig

Where do you get them and is that the one for + lenses?

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## Fezz

> Where do you get them and is that the one for + lenses?



It is the one for + lenses. I get mine from Digital Eyelab.

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## Judy Canty

Luzerne has them as well.  :Cool:

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## Paulie

The Seiko line is my primary progressives.  I've gotten the "Wow" factor from the Surmount and PCwide.  Patients like the extra usable viewing area.  I had one non-adapt from a Surmount customer all last year.  Her main complaint was the reading zone, so I switched her into FT35 and she was happy.  So for the price and combined with Surpass AR, these lenses are hard to beat.  I get them from a very small independent lab near Seattle.  Yes Craig, the Surmount is made for hyperopes.

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## SailorEd

Surmount is my "go to" lens.  I have been dispensing free form progressives almost exclusively for 3 years now.  Virtually every patient in our practice who wears progressives is in a free form lens.  VBA does not offer Surmount so I go with Varilux Physio DRx.  Other than that, it's a "no brainer".  I put them in the Surmount and now, even those who have been in an earlier version of Seiko's free form lenses like Succeed and Supercede, say they really like the Surmount and, yes, I do even get the *WOW factor.  Great lens.  ... And I use it for both hyperopes AND myopes.  Works great! *

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## sharpstick777

Surmount is a terrific  lens, its the only "reverse geometry" design, so everything runs the opposite of many progressives, as the wide end of the corridor is at the top, not the bottom.  If there is somone who dislikes the lens, its usually and adaptation issue because the distortion moves differently.

Note though, its a soft design.  Use the "Surmount WS" in when adds or 2.00 or more to keep the reading wide.

the lens MUST be fit on center too, because of the patented unique corridor, it will really mess it up if you are use to dropping 1 mm or more.

The Surmount should be in every opticians tool box, its truly a revolutionary design:   Its great for prev. non-adapts, it has an intermediate 8X wider than many T shapes like the Auto II, its freaky clear, and it could be the best lens for low to mid power hyperopes ever made.

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## JC1111

Acculab of Illinois has some of the best prices on all seiko product check them out they are cheaper and offer fast turnaround time....they are running some specials right now....seiko blows varilux out of the water

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## RT

JC1111, can we deduce that you work for Acculab of Illinois?

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## NCspecs

> Surmount is a terrific lens, its the only "reverse geometry" design, so everything runs the opposite of many progressives, as the wide end of the corridor is at the top, not the bottom. If there is somone who dislikes the lens, its usually and adaptation issue because the distortion moves differently.
> 
> Note though, its a soft design. Use the "Surmount WS" in when adds or 2.00 or more to keep the reading wide.
> 
> the lens MUST be fit on center too, because of the patented unique corridor, it will really mess it up if you are use to dropping 1 mm or more.
> 
> The Surmount should be in every opticians tool box, its truly a revolutionary design: Its great for prev. non-adapts, it has an intermediate 8X wider than many T shapes like the Auto II, its freaky clear, and it could be the best lens for low to mid power hyperopes ever made.


Yes, yes, and yes! I have you to thank for introducing me to this lens. Increased clarity is something that I hear from my patients; I had a patient leave the office the other day only to step back inside and holler across the dispensary "THESE LENSES ARE AWESOME!!!". I took her out of a Physio Enhanced.


Thanks for the tip on the WS option, information like that is always welcome.

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## jefe

> IT must be me -- I've had mixed success with Seiko lenses.  Some people like 'em, some people hate 'em.  I've refit two people in another brand after they told me they couldn't use the Surmount.  It makes me reluctant to use them.


Using the fitting tips provided by Sharpstick (thanks again), I've tried them again recently and have had much better results.  I no longer feel reluctant to use them.

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## sharpstick777

> Using the fitting tips provided by Sharpstick (thanks again), I've tried them again recently and have had much better results.  I no longer feel reluctant to use them.


Great Jefe, I hope it works to bring you viral referrals to your great office, as I always, I cheer on your success!

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## Slim

what vsp category is a surmount? "O"?

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## golfnut

I have had alot of issues with the thickness on these lenses with the lab we use. I almost always have to reorder and give the thickness parameters that we receive to get them right? I make sure frame measurements are spot on and still receive with 2.2mm and up thin edges? Lab guy told me to specify the edge thickness i want, so I did and still received too thick. Does anyone else have these problems with them? When they get them right they look great though. The lab in question is US OPTICAL. The do great work on everything else we do there?

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## reeta ghosh

> I have been using more and more of the Surmount and I am very pleased with it. My patients seem to like it and I am actually getting the elusive "_WOW_" that has been eluding me when fitting other fancy lenses.
> 
> So.................what am I missing?
> 
> Are you finding any faults with this lens?
> 
> Are you getting the "WOW"?
> 
> Are you experiencing the same thing?
> ...


Dear Optician,
I used Surmount lenses all the time and it is a "WOW" lenses.Price is better and outcome is Fantastic.I will say100% go for it withoout any doubt about this lenses.All my pt were extremely happy. :Smile:

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## sharpstick777

> I have had alot of issues with the thickness on these lenses with the lab we use. I almost always have to reorder and give the thickness parameters that we receive to get them right? I make sure frame measurements are spot on and still receive with 2.2mm and up thin edges? Lab guy told me to specify the edge thickness i want, so I did and still received too thick. Does anyone else have these problems with them? When they get them right they look great though. The lab in question is US OPTICAL. The do great work on everything else we do there?


Its not a Seiko issue, Surmount will finish thinner than most esp in Plus powers...  are you ordering with REAL frame measurements taken with a PD stick?

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## ak47

> I have had alot of issues with the thickness on these lenses with the lab we use. I almost always have to reorder and give the thickness parameters that we receive to get them right? I make sure frame measurements are spot on and still receive with 2.2mm and up thin edges? Lab guy told me to specify the edge thickness i want, so I did and still received too thick. Does anyone else have these problems with them? When they get them right they look great though. The lab in question is US OPTICAL. The do great work on everything else we do there?


i have had this problem in past with Surmount in plus lenses for drill mounts with several labs.  i have not found any solution other than to specify thickness when ordering, that does that trick.  actually have had the opposite problem lately with Seiko free forms in full frame specs - lenses surfaced so thin that lenses are crazing from flex...

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## ak47

But, back to the original topic...patients love this lens...the only non-adapts were by people who were not good candidates for progressives and insisted on trying...

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## Den

I read and I think if this wonderful lens is in my catalog? Maybe it's just a different named? Or it just for the U.S. domestic market?
Thanks for any info.

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## jefe

Perhaps the next Seiko thread should be "Seiko Superior:  What's not to like?"  I've fit a couple of Surmount wearers with the Superior, and both wearers think the Superior is truly superior.

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## sharpstick777

> i have had this problem in past with Surmount in plus lenses for drill mounts with several labs.  i have not found any solution other than to specify thickness when ordering, that does that trick.  actually have had the opposite problem lately with Seiko free forms in full frame specs - lenses surfaced so thin that lenses are crazing from flex...


This is probably an issue in how their LMS is configured to calculate thickness.  the Surmount uses a different set of Base Curves and the paramaters are all different.  Let them know that Seiko will work with them on resolving the issue and making sure the defaults are chosen by the Seiko computer, not the LMS.

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## Barry Santini

The only thing I universally dislike about Seiko lenses, or any other FF lens that does this for that matter, is having the engraved circles fitted ONLINE WITH THE PUPIL!  Blechk!

B

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## sharpstick777

> The only thing I universally dislike about Seiko lenses, or any other FF lens that does this for that matter, is having the engraved circles fitted ONLINE WITH THE PUPIL!  Blechk!
> B


There is a reason for that madness with Seiko, they use zero, 2, 3 or 4 millimeter drops depending on the amount of prism thinning in that model of lens.  Prism thinning isn't as necessary in Free-form.  So a Zero drop doesn't necessarily mean it has zero prism thinning, just that its calculated at the lowest needed amount.   Its not on a lens by lens basis, but will be consistent with that model, so for example all the Surmounts have less prism thinning.

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