# Optical Forums > Canadian Discussion Forum >  Changes in British Columbia

## AnotherOD

Some serious stuff going on:

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_rele...015-000286.htm

The Province is giving six weeks’ notice that effective May 1, 2010, changes will be made to the regulations for opticians and optometrists under the Health Professions Act, including:
· Removal of most of the restrictions that allow only opticians or optometrists, or workers supervised by them, to dispense glasses or contacts.
· Allowing prescriptions issued by medical doctors and optometrists outside of the province to be filled within B.C.
· Allowing people to order glasses or contacts online without having to give the seller a copy of their prescription, sight-test assessment or contact-lens specifications.
· Requiring opticians and optometrists in B.C. to include in a prescription or sight-test assessment the measurement of distance between the client’s pupils, which is required for the proper fitting of glasses.
· Requiring opticians and optometrists in B.C. to give clients, free of charge, a copy of their prescription, sight-test assessment or contact-lens specifications – whether or not it is requested by the client – and also to give a copy, free of charge, to a third-party eyewear seller or other person if requested by the client.

Also taking effect on May 1 is a change to optician sight-testing. Opticians will now be able to independently conduct sight-tests for healthy clients aged 19-65. This eliminates the extra step of having a sight-test reviewed by a medical doctor who then issues a prescription. Instead, a screening process will be put in place to ensure a client is healthy enough to be eligible for the sight-test, and is fully informed about the difference between a sight-test and an eye-health examination.

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## IndianaOD

Wow

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## Jacqui

What in the H--- is going on out there??

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## eyemanflying

It's sure obvious that someone in the government is on the Coastal back door payroll.  This makes absolutely no sense and is on the wrong path.  What ever happended to protecting the profession(s), its members and the public???

In regards to the free consultation, contacts and dispensing, this is wrong.  Our time as professionals is not FREE.  Its just a matter of time before someone goes blind from not having a proper assessment, fitting and follow up - it will then be very interesting to see who share the blame when the wearer sues.

The OD's now probably want to kick themselves in their rear end...opening the door years ago and allowing non-licenced dispensing staff to measure and dispense was the root of this new problem.  People, as professionals, we cannot delegate!  This is why we are registered professionals. Delegation evolved simply because of convenience and cheapness.  The devil is now smiling and receiving his ROI on the deal from long ago.

However, I am ok with the sight testing by both OD's and OPT's provided there is a procedural mandatory process in place.  It is time we all as registered professionals share more of the pie.

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## idispense

> It's sure obvious that someone in the government is on the Coastal back door payroll. This makes absolutely no sense and is on the wrong path. What ever happended to protecting the profession(s), its members and the public???
> 
> In regards to the free consultation, contacts and dispensing, this is wrong. Our time as professionals is not FREE. Its just a matter of time before someone goes blind from not having a proper assessment, fitting and follow up - it will then be very interesting to see who share the blame when the wearer sues.
> 
> The OD's now probably want to kick themselves in their rear end...opening the door years ago and allowing non-licenced dispensing staff to measure and dispense was the root of this new problem. People, as professionals, we cannot delegate! This is why we are registered professionals. Delegation evolved simply because of convenience and cheapness. The devil is now smiling and receiving his ROI on the deal from long ago.
> 
> However, I am ok with the sight testing by both OD's and OPT's provided there is a procedural mandatory process in place. It is time we all as registered professionals share more of the pie.


They have a Federal MP on their Board of Directors . http://investing.businessweek.com/re...CONTACTS%20INC

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## idispense

This is not so much about deregulating opticians and throwing opticians a  sight testing carrot, THIS IS ALL ABOUT HANDING OVER THE OPTICAL BUSINESS TO INTERNET VENDORS .

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## idispense

Opticians have just been made a slave to internet vendors and the manufacturers that support  internet vendors.

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## eyemanflying

> They have a Federal MP on their Board of Directors . http://investing.businessweek.com/re...CONTACTS%20INC


Talk about a hidden agenda and conflict of interest!  This must get exposed - to the highest degree with media attention!

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## AnotherOD

> The OD's now probably want to kick themselves in their rear end...opening the door years ago and allowing non-licenced dispensing staff to measure and dispense was the root of this new problem.


Maybe the invention of the internet also had something to do with this.

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## drk

Well, let's see if the intenet businesses can make this work.

Seriously, if there's mega online competition, and low, low margins, many will go bankrupt.  How many jobs can you produce at $39?   Not for long they can't.

Hold your ground and fight, and wait.  

If you need to lower overhead to be competitive, though, you might want to think about it.

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## eyemanflying

> Maybe the invention of the internet also had something to do with this.


That was the inception. The internet is the platform.

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## LandLord

> Well, let's see if the intenet businesses can make this work.
> 
> Seriously, if there's mega online competition, and low, low margins, many will go bankrupt. How many jobs can you produce at $39? Not for long they can't.
> 
> Hold your ground and fight, and wait. 
> 
> If you need to lower overhead to be competitive, though, you might want to think about it.


Wake up and smell the acetone!!!!!!! We're not dealing with amateurs here. When a tsunami is imminent, you can either fight it and die, or give up your ground and find new ground you can thrive on.  I suggest the latter option. Read this article from this month's Profit Magazine. 
*Rogers Hardy
Coastal Contacts Inc., Vancouver* 
_"I've made just about every mistake in business known to man," says Roger Hardy, who co-founded Vancouver-based Coastal Contacts Inc. in 2000. Since then, the online retailer of eyeglasses and contact lenses has gone public and made two appearances on the PROFIT 100, achieving 2009 sales of $140 million._
"I had a couple of businesses before this one. One I sold too soon, and one I held onto for far too long. It's a delicate balance to get it right. There was definitely regret. But my value as a person — my self-worth — wasn't connected to the businesses.
"With the company I sold too soon, I didn't understand the business as well as I should have, and probably didn't understand its potential as well as I could have. I was lured by the thought of a financial windfall that would help my family. I held the other business too long because I thought the opportunity was there and I couldn't understand why we weren't capitalizing on it. I thought it should work. I was lucky that I had a couple of different things on the go. The learning was that I needed to better understand the strategic direction of the businesses and have a better sense of the metrics involved. 
"In either instance, I didn't spend a lot of time sitting around thinking about it remorsefully. In retrospect, I probably should have sat around and had more remorse. But I think my personality is such that, the next day, I'm thinking, 'Hey, now we're going to go on to the next thing.' That's just how my mind works. I don't think I dwell too much on the past, whether there is failure or success. I just try to learn from what happened and keep moving forward.
"At Coastal Contacts, we've made lots of mistakes along the way. We look at the business in terms of people, strategy and execution. People is the top piece. Have I made mistakes in hiring? Absolutely. And the cost of making a high-level mistake can be catastrophic, especially in marketing and finance. If you know there's a problem, you have to move fast; there's no time, really, to feel bad about it. You pay the penalty and move on. 
"In business, you have to try a lot of things. Some work, and some don't. You have to look at every failure as an opportunity to learn, and every failure moves you one step closer to success. You have to keep trying until you get it right.
"Old-school business is all about getting the perfect concept correct. At our company, that type of thinking would be the end of our lives. For us, doing business is all about changing and being dynamic, making mistakes and moving on. 
"I've been writing business plans since I was 18, and there are 12 in the filing cabinet right now. I'm passionate about business. And I'm fortunate. But if my business fortunes changed tomorrow, I have three more ideas ready to go — the next three things I see that consumers would like. I'm always looking for disconnects, looking at the signs for business ideas."

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## LandLord

By the way, some thread mentioned the regulators were giving online retailers time to comply with the law.  Well it looks like it's the other way around! The law is changing to comply with business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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## idispense

> By the way, some thread mentioned the regulators were giving online retailers time to comply with the law. Well it looks like it's the other way around! The law is changing to comply with business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yeah, some are wondering just how that came to be . We'd probably need an answer from near the top . Maybe Nick could shed some insight ?

Just how does it happen that a Government and Health Ministry step into a Judges' case that is still ongoing in certain aspects ? 

How does it happen that opticians in BC will now be slaves to the internet and have to give up discretionary measurements for free ? 

Maybe Nick could explain how accurate glasses are going to be made from a PD measurement and no seg height info ? Should we have the patient pick up their internet frame and bring it back in to us so we can take the seg height for Free too ? 

I imagine that BC will be changing their licensing fees and making those Free for BC opticians ? Fair is Fair right ? I imagine the BC College of opticians , their staff , directors , and executives and Registrar will now see the merit in giving up their salaries and working for Free ? 

And those BC politicians , like the Minister of Health will they be working for free too ? 

Oh and then there is Alberta , will they be jumping on the band wagon too ? 

There used to be jobs in North America .

This is the high price of big discounts and offshore products.

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## LandLord

I agree, idispense. While we're at it, why don't we hire an online, unregulated "political regulation seller".  Instead of paying taxes in BC we can choose from a list of laws online and have the current politicians take care of the paperwork for free!!!

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## idispense

IF the other provinces funded BC's escapades in kangaroo court, then I imagine BC regulators of opticians will do the honourable thing and now refund the money to the other provinces .

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## idispense

Now that anyone can dispense in BC , I don't imagine it would make any sense for BC to continue with the half baked Licensed Optician.ca scheme . Shall we expect BC to drop out ?

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## AnotherOD

Isn't BC also the province with the 6-month optician training program?  

So the least-trained opticians also have the largest scope (refraction)?

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## LandLord

Media Contact:
Bernadette Murphy
Media Relations Manager
Ministry of Health Services
250 952-1887 (media line)
250 213-9590 (cell)

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## eyemanflying

> Now that anyone can dispense in BC , I don't imagine it would make any sense for BC to continue with the half baked Licensed Optician.ca scheme . Shall we expect BC to drop out ?


Very good point - wasn't this identity crisis developed in BC?

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## AnotherOD

> The OD's now probably want to kick themselves in their rear end...opening the door years ago and allowing non-licenced dispensing staff to measure and dispense was the root of this new problem.


My sense is that the type of customer who purchases their glasses from the optometrist is not the type of customer who will order their glasses online --> the internet consumer is the type who just wants the lowest price possible and would previously have shopped at chain opticals (e.g Lenscrafters) where the optometrist is not involved with the dispense.

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## eyemanflying

> My sense is that the type of customer who purchases their glasses from the optometrist is not the type of customer who will order their glasses online --> the internet consumer is the type who just wants the lowest price possible and would previously have shopped at chain opticals (e.g Lenscrafters) where the optometrist is not involved with the dispense.


The type of consumer that wants the lowest price possible certainly doesn't shop at LensCrafters or the local independant Optometrist's office. What an oxymoron.

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## idispense

> Very good point - wasn't this identity crisis developed in BC?


 
Developed in BC , paid for in Ontario , eh ?

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## AnotherOD

> The type of consumer that wants the lowest price possible certainly doesn't shop at LensCrafters or the local independant Optometrist's office. What an oxymoron.


Sorry - retain chain like Costco/Walmart or whatever.

But you're right - optometrists are behind all of this, and every ill that befalls the eyecare industry.

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## Refractingoptician.com

> Sorry - retain chain like Costco/Walmart or whatever.
> 
> But you're right - optometrists are behind all of this, and every ill that befalls the eyecare industry.


You would be wrong about that .  The $$ is behind most things .

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## johnny2

OD's in BC need to stand up and say "No" to this regulatory change.
All OD's in BC should immediately stop seeing all government insured patients.
All patients should be referred to emergency rooms for their eyecare treatment.  
When people begin to develop corneal ulcers, scarring and neovasc secondary to improperly fit contacts, they might as well go to the emergency rooms, because OD's shouldn't have to clean up the mess that the government is creating.

The BC Association of Optometrists need to immediately withdrawl all government insured services to protest this serious public health issue that will be created as of May 1, 2010.

No consultations were developed in association with opticians and optometrists and therefore, the BC government should be held accountable for this serious oversight.

EVERY BC OD NEEDS TO STAND UP AND SAY "NO, not in my backyard"

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## eyemanflying

> Sorry - retain chain like Costco/Walmart or whatever.
> 
> But you're right - optometrists are behind all of this, and every ill that befalls the eyecare industry.


Oh the sarcasm...behind most of it.  But that debate has been beaten like a dead horse one too many times.

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## eyemanflying

> OD's in BC need to stand up and say "No" to this regulatory change.
> All OD's in BC should immediately stop seeing all government insured patients.
> All patients should be referred to emergency rooms for their eyecare treatment. 
> When people begin to develop corneal ulcers, scarring and neovasc secondary to improperly fit contacts, they might as well go to the emergency rooms, because OD's shouldn't have to clean up the mess that the government is creating.
> 
> The BC Association of Optometrists need to immediately withdrawl all government insured services to protest this serious public health issue that will be created as of May 1, 2010.
> 
> No consultations were developed in association with opticians and optometrists and therefore, the BC government should be held accountable for this serious oversight.
> 
> EVERY BC OD NEEDS TO STAND UP AND SAY "NO, not in my backyard"


How about boycotting your association's event in Banff in May as a start???

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## Refractingoptician.com

[,

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## AnotherOD

Are there any cases in the literature that demonstrate harm with unregulated dispensing of prescription eyewear/CLs?

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## eyemanflying

> Are there any cases in the literature that demonstrate harm with unregulated dispensing of prescription eyewear/CLs?


There certainly will be in due time!

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## drk

Seriously, I don't think internet glasses will thrive, and I don't see the profit margins.

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## LandLord

> Seriously, I don't think internet glasses will thrive, and I don't see the profit margins.


Maybe they aren't getting the same margin you do. But they certainly have a much lower overhead per sale and a much higher volume, so they don't need massive margins.  Costco has the lowest margins in the retail industry.  Are they going to go be closing soon as well?  I think not. Internet glasses are here to stay. If you can't believe that, you're in danger of doing nothing.

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## Ory

From this thread: 


> We believe that Coastal's eyeglasses business could exceed $20 million in sales in fiscal 2010.


So let's say that they actually hit 10 million in sales.  An average sale for these guys is in the $50 realm which means 200K pair of eyewear.

How many pair of glasses does the average optician produce per year?  Would 1000 be unreasonable?  So now 200 opticians are out of a job.  If their numbers are accurate, 400 opticians are out of a job.

According to the College of Opticians of BC website there are 1300 active members in the province.

But of course, this is all in the best interests of the patien...I mean consumer.

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## optical maven

To eyemanflying: Opticians for years have hired unlicensed personel to dispense glasses and fit contact lenses. I hired one 20 years ago.
I think that eventually the public will understand that there are trained people and untrained people and will eventually seek out someone trained. 
In the mean time, in order to make sure the public is allowed to obtain the most economical access to eyecare, optical stores should all purchase an Eyelogic, have a wifi link, and after supplying a free autorefraction, allow the customer to access the internet with their newly obtained free refractive error results and PD. Just keep your overhead low.

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## eyemanflying

> To eyemanflying: Opticians for years have hired unlicensed personel to dispense glasses and fit contact lenses. I hired one 20 years ago.
> I think that eventually the public will understand that there are trained people and untrained people and will eventually seek out someone trained. 
> In the mean time, in order to make sure the public is allowed to obtain the most economical access to eyecare, optical stores should all purchase an Eyelogic, have a wifi link, and after supplying a free autorefraction, allow the customer to access the internet with their newly obtained free refractive error results and PD. Just keep your overhead low.


Opticians have never been legal entitled to delegate dispensing responsibilities.  It is OD's you are referring to.

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## optical maven

So isn't that even worse when it has been illegally done in optical stores for decades.

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## eyemanflying

> So isn't that even worse when it has been illegally done in optical stores for decades.


Whether illegal dispensing occurs in a 'store' or 'practice', in my opinion it is the same.

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## Comma

Finally one government have decided to listen to what most of the other 2 O's told them (with their acts or with their silence) for the last 30 years, appropriate dispensing is not important.

Over the years, I've noticed that 2 groups of people were denying it :
1-Those who don't know : General public (and many opticians: uneducated or just plain lazy) 
2-Those who really know how important it is, but keep from telling it ($$$)

Who is to blame ?

Even if governments were listening, who would had more credibility ?
Mr 6 months (or online education) or Mr PhD ?
The "craftman" (as seen before) or the doctor ?

I have very mixed emotions...

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## idispense

It is late in the day to be unsure .

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## amus

time for all opt to fight for sight testing, let Bc lead the way.

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## Comma

I don't agree with that decision at 99%

But there is my very little dark side 1% that is VERY happy.
From many years of frustration.

Actually, that 1% wins over my 99%
Just hope my professionnalism will be back soon. :D:D:D


My turn to spit in the air...

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## kws6000

These changes will hurt opticians more than OD's in B.C.....Since it officially allows anyone with a pulse to dispense,the chain opticals in particular are going to cheap out as much as they can.....Opticians are typically afraid to charge for their services so the ones fitting CLs arent going to be thrilled to have to release the cL specs for free....Allowing a bunch of greenhorns to do refractions is going to result in a lot of redos and dis satisfied customers....

All of these things should help the ODs thrive.

These legislative changes just put the screws to the independent opticians in a big way.

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## kws6000

> How about boycotting your association's event in Banff in May as a start???



Why?...This is primarily a CE event and has nothing to do with the government.

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## independent opt.

Health Minister Kevin Falcon is in for a fight., if he is allowing On Line companies to fill orders for contacts and Eyeglasses without a prescription he will have to make them charge the new HST..also any on line purchases coming in to your locations with problems...refer them to Minister Kevin Falcon. Talk about going backwards....only in B.C.

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## idispense

Very few will do anything .

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## idispense

It is rather interesting that there is no cry of outrage from the Associations. 

The Government stepping into a  British Columbia Judge's court case , apparently isn't a big enough issue for Associations to comment on .

Great Glasses wasn't enough either. 

I wonder what would get their attention ?

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## kws6000

Your profession just got destroyed in B.C.

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## kws6000

This might be the catalyst needed for opticians to finally start charging for after sales service for items purchased elsewhere....As long as opticians give away their services,why wouldnt consumers save $$ by purchasing online.

Online retailers are counting on brick and mortar opticians doing their after sales service for free.

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## LandLord

I agree opticians need to move into a fee for service business model.
I don't see how ODs would be helped by this situation in BC.
Your competition just increased in both refraction and dispensing. How does that help?

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## eyemanflying

> Why?...This is primarily a CE event and has nothing to do with the government.


Yes, you are correct.  However, you can't be naive for a moment and believe that your association didn't know a thing about it?  The Colleges and Associations are very tight - surely someone had wind of it.

Watch Discovery Channel tonight - there's a new show called 'When Membership Fees Go Wrong'.  It's right after 'Destroyed in Seconds' the BC story.

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## eyemanflying

> This might be the catalyst needed for opticians to finally start charging for after sales service for items purchased elsewhere....As long as opticians give away their services,why wouldnt consumers save $$ by purchasing online.
> 
> Online retailers are counting on brick and mortar opticians doing their after sales service for free.


The OD's lost the most in this deal.  How does it feel to move your avg sale from $800 down to almost nothing overnight?  It will be more interesting to see if your local buying group will survive the long haul.

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## IndianaOD

Indeed they did.  ODs in BC are now competing with "opticians" with 6 months of training for refractions.  6 months is a little easier than 8 years.  I guess at least the ODs can dump their certified opticians for cheap labor.  Even though opticians can sight test I bet the average optician will make less.  There is going to be an uncontrolled explosion of unskilled competition.  Overall I think opticians and optometrists took it in the backside.  There better be some action by those professions up there.

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## Oedema

> The OD's lost the most in this deal.  How does it feel to move your avg sale from $800 down to almost nothing overnight?  It will be more interesting to see if your local buying group will survive the long haul.


Why are we arguing over who gets screwed the most? Don't you think it's time we all agree on a compromise, forget sight testing and implement mandatory rx release. Unfortunately I know rx release is still a problem here in bc. :(

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## kws6000

> Why are we arguing over who gets screwed the most? Don't you think it's time we all agree on a compromise, forget sight testing and implement mandatory rx release. Unfortunately I know rx release is still a problem here in bc. :(



Huh,why would opticians give up site testing when mandatory rx release has just been implemented.

There wont be any compromises...The turf war is about to really begin...I can see the BC OD association coming out with an aggressive pr campaign focusing on who do you want to trust your vision with...and I bet it wont be with an unqualified technician pretending to do eye exams.

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## kws6000

> The OD's lost the most in this deal.  How does it feel to move your avg sale from $800 down to almost nothing overnight?  It will be more interesting to see if your local buying group will survive the long haul.



Not really....The people who didnt want to spend anything were already walking with their scripts....the independent opticians as well as smaller chains fighting for the bottom feeders are going to be hurt the most.I wont be sad to see some fold.


The influx of  new "opticians " into the business is going to decrease wages for those already in the business.

Its your group which got particularly knee capped...If the OD association is smart,in its pr campaign it will put the seed of doubt in the public's mind about the qualifications of anyone calling themselves 'optician'...

Your group lacks the unity or financial resources to fight back.

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## kws6000

And having some previous knowledge about it matters how?...

The BC OD's had a reprieve of several years regarding the allowing of unqualified people the do pretend eye exams and have the  advantage of having the public's perception of being well trained gatekeepers of vision care....

.On the other hand your group has just been branded as being a group with no standards in place and this unfavorable branding will likely be reinforced by the ODs.

The new legislative changes have just screwed your group over royally in favor of the online dispensersand has cheapened the public's perception of your group.

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## watevah

Optometrists and opticians in BC should just stop bickering and band together to fight a common foe: internet optical vendors. Let's face it, both ODs and opticians in BC lost out big on this one. The only real winner is Coastal Contacts. I would argue that the consumer lost out in a big way, too, since the quality of eyecare in BC just went down the toilet. Sure, consumers might save money now by buying cheap glasses and contacts online, but they will pay for it later when they develop serious eye problems because they neglected getting their eyes examined by their optometrist on a regular basis, or because they stopped going to their optician for follow-up contact lens visits.

ODs: You've got to stop seeing opticians as the enemy. Yes, we've taken some of your business away with automated sight tests, but at least we still get to see the patient face-to-face and can determine through screening methods if a patient needs to see an OD or not. Some opticians are even pretty good at spotting things that even medical doctors may have missed. Witness this for example:

Girl, 9, saved by optician after doctors fail to spot plum-sized brain tumour SIX times

An internet provider like Coastal Contacts does not see the patient at all! How dangerous is that?

So why don't ODs and opticians in BC get together and fight this new legislation as vigorously as we can? Surely we can be far more effective if we work together. Yes, we will still have our differences, but at least we can BOTH agree that selling and dispensing eyeglasses without even seeing the patient is not a good thing. If ODs and opticians really care about people's eye health like they say they do, let's put our money where our mouth is and fight this new ruling with as much energy as we can, because in my opinion, we were both dealt a huge blow by this incredibly myopic new legislation.

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## idispense

> Optometrists and opticians in BC should just stop bickering and band together to fight a common foe: internet optical vendors. Let's face it, both ODs and opticians in BC lost out big on this one. The only real winner is Coastal Contacts. I would argue that the consumer lost out in a big way, too, since the quality of eyecare in BC just went down the toilet. Sure, consumers might save money now by buying cheap glasses and contacts online, but they will pay for it later when they develop serious eye problems because they neglected getting their eyes examined by their optometrist on a regular basis, or because they stopped going to their optician for follow-up contact lens visits.
> 
> ODs: You've got to stop seeing opticians as the enemy. Yes, we've taken some of your business away with automated sight tests, but at least we still get to see the patient face-to-face and can determine through screening methods if a patient needs to see an OD or not. Some opticians are even pretty good at spotting things that even medical doctors may have missed. Witness this for example:
> 
> Girl, 9, saved by optician after doctors fail to spot plum-sized brain tumour SIX times
> 
> An internet provider like Coastal Contacts does not see the patient at all! How dangerous is that?
> 
> So why don't ODs and opticians in BC get together and fight this new legislation as vigorously as we can? Surely we can be far more effective if we work together. Yes, we will still have our differences, but at least we can BOTH agree that selling and dispensing eyeglasses without even seeing the patient is not a good thing. If ODs and opticians really care about people's eye health like they say they do, let's put our money where our mouth is and fight this new ruling with as much energy as we can, because in my opinion, we were both dealt a huge blow by this incredibly myopic new legislation.


I agree with you 100 per cent .
Has there been any feedback from any of the  Associations and Colleges on this , including Opticians,Optometrists, Ophthalmologists and MD's ?

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## watevah

> I agree with you 100 per cent .
> Has there been any feedback from any of the  Associations and Colleges on this , including Opticians,Optometrists, Ophthalmologists and MD's ?


Just a statement on COBC's website, not much more. I think they're still too stunned by all this to formulate a proper response just yet.

I just wanted to add to my statements above: Opticians should stop seeing ODs as their enemy as well. Yes, ODs have taken a bit of business turf away from us as well, but they are still an incredibly valuable and important part of the eye health team consisting of the three O's. As opticians, we need to train ourselves to recognize early symptoms of eye problems so that we can refer even _more_ patients to ODs when necessary.

So my message to ODs and opticians is this: let's bury the hatchet between us for now as we face a greater, even more dangerous threat to patient's eye care: the internet provider who doesn't even see or care how old the prescription is when the customer orders his/her glasses or contacts!

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## eyemanflying

> Not really....The people who didnt want to spend anything were already walking with their scripts....the independent opticians as well as smaller chains fighting for the bottom feeders are going to be hurt the most.I wont be sad to see some fold.
> 
> 
> The influx of new "opticians " into the business is going to decrease wages for those already in the business.
> 
> Its your group which got particularly knee capped...If the OD association is smart,in its pr campaign it will put the seed of doubt in the public's mind about the qualifications of anyone calling themselves 'optician'...
> 
> Your group lacks the unity or financial resources to fight back.


Seed of doubt? Its already there. Most people can't distinguish the difference, nor do they care. 

Your definition of unity is banding together and joining an OD buying group?

And lacks financial resources? You got me on this one. This is only achieved because of the private label brands and substantial savings received are not passed to the consumer and stays right in the OD's greedy pocket.  Just ask your dispensers. 

And it looks as though the fight for survival has just begun - its much to early to declare the winner.

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## optical maven

By deregulating, the public will eventually understand that there are distinct differences in education and expertise.  They will no longer walk into a store and assume everyone is the same.  That is happening with the Great Glasses stores.  You try them once and many (not all) are coming back now for proper eyecare.

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## AnotherOD

Girl, 9, saved by optician after doctors fail to spot plum-sized brain tumour SIX times

That's kinda neat.  It seems the optician used an ophthalmoscope to view the nerve.

It's notable that this article is from the UK.  I think UK opticians/optometrists are much closer in scope than here in Canada.

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## wmcdonald

Ophthalmic Optician (Optometrist) in England is the same as an Optometrist. I suspect the article is reflecting what you and I would call an Optometrist. Dispensing Opticians in England and Canada are similar.

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## optical maven

Optometrists in the UK are often called ophthalmic (not dispensing) opticians.  It was an optometrist that did the exam.

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## NorthStar

*Eyelogic applauds changes..* 
Eyelogic will benefit significantly from opticians (or any optical store technician) refracting, and it did not take them long to publicly support these changes.  I wonder what they think of opticians being de-regulated.
Big business is behind this backroom political deal. Follow the money...

http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/mar...pendent-sight/

_CALGARY,_ (Didn't Coastal do a major promotion in Calgary recently giving away 500 pairs of free glasses...)_Mar 22, 2010 (Canada NewsWire via COMTEX) ----Trading Symbol: EYE.A (TSX-V)_ 
_Eyelogic Systems Inc. congratulates the Government of British Columbia for being the first jurisdiction in North America to allow independent sight testing by licensed Opticians. The B.C. Ministry of Health Services announced on March 19, 2010 that effective May 1, 2010, Opticians in British Columbia will be allowed to perform independent sight tests without the need for review by a medical doctor._ 
_"Modern consumers want to make their own choices when it comes to their health and the health of their families," says Mark McDonald, President of Eyelogic. "This new regulation will allow patients to make an informed decision between a comprehensive eye exam and a sight test, after being informed about the differences."_ 
_The decision comes from a lengthy consultation process beginning in 1998 when Eyelogic installed the first Eyelogic System in BC. Since that time, over one hundred BC Opticians have installed Eyelogic's technology to offer their customers better convenience and access._ 
_"We look forward to working with more Opticians across British Columbia as sight testing becomes an increasingly important aspect of their scope of practice," says Mark. "As the leading automated refraction provider in Canada, we believe Opticians and their customers will benefit from this decision."_ 
_Eyelogic Systems Inc. is the market leader in automated sight testing systems. The Eyelogic System, developed by Calgary ophthalmologist Dr. Alan Dyer, is a highly accurate and efficient method to determine a person's eyewear needs. The technology has been in use for over 14 years in Provinces throughout Canada and around the world._

----------


## idispense

It is interesting that even with their press releases, EyeLogic shares have no volume and there does not seem to be any change in the price in days ?  Does anyone follow this ?

----------


## idispense

I would have thought that Coastal Contacts shares would benefit from this BC regulatory change too , the same as one might expect of Eyelogic shares .

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## YrahG

In the US it is the AOA (American Optometric Association) that advocates the online dispensing of eye wear.  Of course every OD I know of hates what has happened to contact lenses but guess they assume this time around things will be different with eye wear.:hammer:

Don't worry without an independent OD and Opt selling eye wear online would not work very well after all someone needs to sell this stuff at inflated prices in order for their to be value in the online eye wear.  I wonder when the OD's and Opt in BC will start putting the value in the sight test / eye exam and selling the materials for next to nothing?

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## fjpod

> In the US it is the AOA (American Optometric Association) that advocates the online dispensing of eye wear.... ?


Where do you get this information from?, might I ask?

----------


## YrahG

> Where do you get this information from?, might I ask?


A press release:

http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...tions-for-ECPs

----------


## fjpod

> A press release:
> 
> http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...tions-for-ECPs


Interesting read.

For a few years now, we have had a website for our practice which allows patients to refill their CL Rxs for up to a year online.  Some patients feel it is more convenient than the traditional method of calling the office.

I've never thought of offering spectacles this way, although I could see it happening.  We have all of the patients measurements.  We might even have a photo of the patient on our computers that we can super-impose a frame over.  And then make the patient come in to pick them up for final fitting.  

I'm not saying I love the idea, but I can see it coming.  If we don't do it, someone is going to do it to us and our patients.

----------


## Stonegoat

The BC Association of Optometrists has been fighting deregulation of eyecare for 10 years or more.  The BC provincial governement has been less than reasonable over the years.  
As an optometrist, really don't have a big problem with sight-testing as long as patients receive periodic eye health exams.  Sight-testing has been a reality since I started practicing 7 years ago.  In fact, the local sight-tester and her mother are patients of mine.

The threat to eye care is non-regulated dispensing of eyeglasses and CLs.  This inevitable phenomen will have a large inpact over the next few years.  ODs and opticians will be impacted...especially those already catering to those customers who value low price over quality.  I could easily make a very healthy income without my dispensary just with exams...I have a heavy medical componant to my base.  I might say phuck it and do just that.

----------


## eyemanflying

> Interesting read.
> 
> For a few years now, we have had a website for our practice which allows patients to refill their CL Rxs for up to a year online. Some patients feel it is more convenient than the traditional method of calling the office.
> 
> I've never thought of offering spectacles this way, although I could see it happening. We have all of the patients measurements. We might even have a photo of the patient on our computers that we can super-impose a frame over. And then make the patient come in to pick them up for final fitting. 
> 
> I'm not saying I love the idea, but I can see it coming. If we don't do it, someone is going to do it to us and our patients.


Everyone is still in shock; however the times are changing. Those that keep pace and embrace change will survive. Although this company is growing rapidly and expanding their market share, they will never meet critical mass.

There will always be patients/customers that prefer to be serviced and shop in person - with this comes an increased price which many will happily oblige.

----------


## NorthStar

> In the US it is the AOA (American Optometric Association) that advocates the online dispensing of eye wear. Of course every OD I know of hates what has happened to contact lenses but guess they assume this time around things will be different with eye wear.:hammer:...


Essilor is a huge contributor to the AOA.  Essilor is already poised for selling internet glasses, but has to spin it that somehow this is a good thing for their customers while at the same time selling directly to the consumer.  Once a client goes online to buy eyewear, there will be many online vendors and prices to choose from - they don't care as long as they end up with an Essilor lens in the end.

----------


## IndianaOD

With all politics aside, I don't see how this is good for patients at all.  Especially their ocular health.  For example, just today I saw a healthy 37yo WM with no complaints and 20/20 vision.  Just wanted to renew the CL Rx.  After my exam it was clear he was a glaucoma suspect.  I ran a GDx and it confirmed he had moderate (not mild) glaucoma.  5 to 10 years of no Tx could have been devastating.  Luckily I will start him on an Rx and hopefully control the glaucoma.  It is my understanding that a patient like this would be allowed to get an Rx from an optician in BC (or just reorder the Rx by seeing no-one) and end up with severe vision loss.

Patients WILL mistake an optician refraction for an eye exam.

----------


## NorthStar

Sight testing is has always been advertised or promoted as an "eye exam" ("it's all computerized now") since 80% get their glasses where they get their eyes checked.
The problem is for patients that have never had a full eye exam will not know the difference unless they finally have a complete eye exam that takes more than 5min.

----------


## Refractingoptician.com

[,

----------


## esqoptical

My question is if we have to start giving out PD's who is liable if they aren't right? Sounds like the consumer is on the hook for faulty eyewear! I know I won't be touching anything that comes into my store that I didn't sell

----------


## idispense

> My question is if we have to start giving out PD's who is liable if they aren't right? Sounds like the consumer is on the hook for faulty eyewear! I know I won't be touching anything that comes into my store that I didn't sell


You are in BC . How do you feel about sight testing ?

How do you feel about internet vendors  selling eyeglasses and contacts on line ? Are they doing it with an optician ? How do you feel about them blitzing cities and giving away hundreds of glasse for FREE ?

How do you feel about not charging for your patient file and handing out PD's for nothing ? Did internet vendors pay for your education or tools and equipment ? 

It is one thing between professionals,who paid for their similiar educations to assist one another, but it is a crime for uneducated entrepeneurs to cheapen our professions while they bottom feed off of us at the risk of the health of the unsuspecting public who do not know what they do not understand.

----------


## idispense

> My question is if we have to start giving out PD's who is liable if they aren't right? Sounds like the consumer is on the hook for faulty eyewear! I know I won't be touching anything that comes into my store that I didn't sell


Give out your PD'S willingly , and yor seg heights too, but why not just hand over your pay check to the customer instead ? It is all about money , not PD's . 


Why not give out the info the Ministry of Health jerks & your College jerks  agreed to , but do it this way :  record in the patient file an encrypted number or reference  , that is only decipherable to you . And only you can un-decipher it . You will have complied with the law, but the info will be useless to any one else. No one says you have to record in millimeters or nanometers , inches or exponents . Do it your way so it is meaningful to only you . 

The public does not know what they do not know . The Ministry of Health is hiding behind "public protectionsim" when in fact they do not give a damn about protecting the public. So you comply but you comply your way .

----------


## esqoptical

> You are in BC . How do you feel about sight testing ?
> 
> How do you feel about internet vendors  selling eyeglasses and contacts on line ? Are they doing it with an optician ? How do you feel about them blitzing cities and giving away hundreds of glasses for FREE ?
> 
> How do you feel about not charging for your patient file and handing out PD's for nothing ? Did internet vendors pay for your education or tools and equipment ? 
> 
> It is one thing between professionals,who paid for their similar educations to assist one another, but it is a crime for uneducated entrepreneurs to cheapen our professions while they bottom feed off of us at the risk of the health of the unsuspecting public who do not know what they do not understand.


No one saw this coming at all! Opticians & O.D.'s have been trying to move forward and increase their scopes and not really getting anywhere, then some internet provider based in B.C. who has lots of $ seems to convince the corrupt Govt that this is the way to go!
I for one don't work for free and don't plan to. Where is it said that a PD is part of an Rx? That has always been part of dispensing.

----------


## ex-optician

Patients WILL mistake an optician refraction for an eye exam.[/QUOTE                                  

Yes a refraction is not a eye exam but with the proper training and qualifying examination process can be preformed by a competent optician. 
Can a GP during a patient's annual physical also check for symptoms and signs in regards to ocular health? GP's also prescribe but do not dispense and there fore there is no conflict of interest with them. Glasses are an added revenue generator in a optometrists practice while contact lenses can be considered a medical device as they rest directly on the eye. Let's turn the clock back and charge proper prices for contact lenses as it is the chair time when done properly we should be charging for. Then perhaps optometry will lessen there grip on glasses which is a task they usually delegate to a staff member.

----------


## LandLord

opticians should go fee based

PD: $40
Seg Height: $45
New frame fit: $60
Adjustment: $20

----------


## Oedema

> Can a GP during a patient's annual physical also check for symptoms and signs in regards to ocular health? GP's also prescribe but do not dispense and there fore there is no conflict of interest with them.


Umm no, now that would be a public health disaster!

----------


## VSTAR

> ODs: YouOptometrists and opticians in BC should just stop bickering and band together to fight a common foe: internet optical vendors. Let's face it, both ODs and opticians in BC lost out big on this one. The only real winner is Coastal Contacts. I would argue that the consumer lost out in a big way, too, since the quality of eyecare in BC just went down the toilet. Sure, consumers might save money now by buying cheap glasses and contacts online, but they will pay for it later when they develop serious eye problems because they neglected getting their eyes examined by their optometrist on a regular basis, or because they stopped going to their optician for follow-up contact lens visits.'ve got to stop seeing opticians as the enemy. Yes, we've taken some of your business away with automated sight tests, but at least we still get to see the patient face-to-face and can determine through screening methods if a patient needs to see an OD or not. Some opticians are even pretty good at spotting things that even medical doctors may have missed. Witness this for example:


 


Just came across this website and could not believe what took place in BC ! I agree with the above that everyone involved in patient eyecare (all three O's) should be joining together to tell the BC Gov't and the residents of BC that this legislation does nothing to protect the public. Why the BC gov't feels that the public can best be served and protected by the internet companies is beyond me. Does this mean since a written Rx/or Rx verification for glasses is no longer required...then a written Rx for drugs may not be required in the future ? If so, I can finally get my patient's in ON get their TPA's on line with no Rx ! There is nothing positive for any of the three O's in this legislation because there is nothing that improves patient care or protects the patient. It would be interesting if there was an organized joint campaing of the three O's informing the public that there plumber could be selling them contact lenses or that their spectacles that cost $39 or $800 are being fabricated from someone with no licence. Lastly, I always find the discussion about sight testing interesting. If someone can explain how to me how sight testing or an eye exam simply consisting of a refraction can differentiate between say a 20 YO male patient who has a small increase in refraction that is due to axial myopia increase, a nuclear cataract, or diabetes/hyperthyroid , then plesse inform me ! Otherwise eventually the only people that will get rich will be the lawyers representing the patients and suing the dispensers. Just a thought from an OD in TO.

----------


## NorthStar

It is noteable that requirements for *ophthalmologists*' mandatory Rx'ing for eyewear including PD has been *omitted*.

*Government & Internet exploiting "Free" services currently offered*.
The government is counting on opticians continuing to refract for free (or at least cheap); in their minds this is providing "free"/affordable eyecare to the public, although at no cost to the government, and is being pitched to the public as such.
Internet companies have stated that you can get eyewear adjustments or even PD for free from an optical store.

----------


## VSTAR

Yes, and fpor bifocals/progressive some websites tell the patient to look in the mirror and find their pupil centre, and for segment types the company just chooses a pre-set height.

----------


## eyemanflying

> No one saw this coming at all! Opticians & O.D.'s have been trying to move forward and increase their scopes and not really getting anywhere, then some internet provider based in B.C. who has lots of $ seems to convince the corrupt Govt that this is the way to go!
> I for one don't work for free and don't plan to. Where is it said that a PD is part of an Rx? That has always been part of dispensing.


Since the two BC associations represent all of the members involved here that just got the shaft, it is time they banded together, hired a lawyer that specializes in this type of case, and called for an inquest within the government.

There is already enough information out in the public that confirms there is a conflict of interest with at least one of the voting government officials.  A legal challenge/investigation into the dealings of the government would gain excellent media awareness and coverage while exposing the transparency of this whole hidden agenda scheme.

Come on BC OD's and OPT's; its time to band together - stand up for yourselves, your profession, your ethics and take the fight.

----------


## fjpod

> opticians should go fee based
> 
> PD: $40
> Seg Height: $45
> New frame fit: $60
> Adjustment: $20


Most sendible thing I've heard all day.

----------


## Refractingoptician.com

..

----------


## Refractingoptician.com

[,

----------


## optical maven

No one can be forced to work for free.  That's called slavery.  Just don't comply and let them come after you.  




> Nice idea but BC beat you to this . Read their press realease again ! It says you can not charge for this but have to give it out FREE . They have already thought it out and cut you off at the knees . 
> 
> They also have a federal MP on their board of directors.

----------


## NorthStar

> Nice idea but BC beat you to this . Read their press realease again ! It says you can not charge for this but have to give it out FREE . They have already thought it out and cut you off at the knees . 
> 
> They also have a federal MP on their board of directors.


You can charge to perform for the service, and provide a mandatory written Rx at that time as part of the service whether it is an Rx and/or PD.  If they later request another Rx copy you can charge for providing another copy. 
However, politicians may have a distorted perception that suits their needs when it comes to the spin they give the public.

----------


## eyemanflying

> No one can be forced to work for free. That's called slavery. Just don't comply and let them come after you.


Ya really, it has been obvious in recent times that there is nobody out there to enforce anything!

----------


## Oedema

> There is already enough information out in the public that confirms there is a conflict of interest with at least one of the voting government officials.  A legal challenge/investigation into the dealings of the government would gain excellent media awareness and coverage while exposing the transparency of this whole hidden agenda scheme.


Who?  If your talking about the federal MP.... that doesn't count, this is a provincial issue.

----------


## eyemanflying

> Who? If your talking about the federal MP.... that doesn't count, this is a provincial issue.


I disagree.  Although the BC RHPA is provincially mandated, I think any government member whether Provincial or Federal is a huge conflict of interest.

Certainly you know how politicians network and take care of each other.  Mark my words, this will continue in other provinces with Ontario being next.  BC is simply the 'test' subject.

----------


## AnotherOD

There is apparently quite a bit of organized activity going on trying to reverse the motion set for May 1.  

What is the likelihood of any of this succeeding?

----------


## LandLord

> There is apparently quite a bit of organized activity going on trying to reverse the motion set for May 1. 
> 
> What is the likelihood of any of this succeeding?


I don't see it reversing.  Even if it does, who will shut down the internet?  Times are changing.  I'm not going down without a fight, but it wont be the kind of fight you are talking about.  (ie suicide mission)

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Well, let's see if the intenet businesses can make this work.*
> 
> *Seriously, if there's mega online competition, and low, low margins, many will go bankrupt. How many jobs can you produce at $39? Not for long they can't.*


 
Do not forget, that most internet opticals have a very small organization with some big lab contacts in China. The China lab charges totally different prices than than the North American equivalent will, either for lenses and also for frames. *They get prices as low as Essilor and other manufacturers buy their lenses at source.* This is a totally different cost game than you would ever have been dreaming of.

The jobs are being sent from there by EMS which is an excellent and cheap one way East to West courier service and is delivered directly to the customer by Priority Post in four to five days from date of sending.

So the internet dealer pays only the price charged in China which lets the internet dealer make a fair markup even on the cheapest prices sold. As quite a few of them sell up to 5000 pairs a day (and increasing) I dont see any going bankrupt. I have been watching their website traffic for the last 10 months and they increased by 20-30% over the last 3 month.

*It is time to face the facts and stop dreaming that the online opticals are all going away, because they will not. The economy besides all that is on their side with a good part of the public without income and jobs for a while to come.*
Essiloris not stupid, they did not buy a majority stake in Frames Direct for no reason. They have realized that they do need a foothold in a new optical industry and concept that will not disapear too soon.

This all is not only affecting the professionals, it is also affecting the supply chain from lenses and frames as well as lab supplies.

----------


## idispense

> The jobs are being sent from there by EMS which is an excellent and cheap one way for*It is time to face the facts and stop dreaming that the online opticals are all going away, because they will not. The economy besides all that is on their side with a good part of the public without income and jobs for a while to come.*
> Essiloris not stupid, they did not buy a majority stake in Frames Direct for no reason. They have realized that they do need a foothold in a new optical industry and concept that will not disapear too soon.
> 
> This all is not only affecting the professionals, it is also affecting the supply chain from lenses and frames as well as lab supplies.


 
Excellent post Chris and right on the money .

----------


## Lutz

I have just heard that BC Optometrists have made a deal with the devil (Coastal Contacts) to receive a kickback from every box of contact lenses sold to one of their patients.

----------


## renee1111

> I have just heard that BC Optometrists have made a deal with the devil (Coastal Contacts) to receive a kickback from every box of contact lenses sold to one of their patients.


Sources please :)

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## LandLord

> I have just heard that BC Optometrists have made a deal with the devil (Coastal Contacts) to receive a kickback from every box of contact lenses sold to one of their patients.


I would be very eager to hear about those sources as well, please.

----------


## Lutz

> I would be very eager to hear about those sources as well, please.


Sorry, only a rumour floating around the industry at present. On reflection I should have looked for confirmation before posting.

----------


## Chris Ryser

Competition Bureau
competitionbureau.gc.ca

http://www.bureaudelaconcurrence.gc....g/h_02704.html

*Health Portal*

Health is a priority item for the Competition Bureau. Not only is the health sector vital to the well being of all Canadians, it is also an important part of the economy.
The Bureaus work in the health sector is organized into three broad lines: encouraging and ensuring compliance with the _Competition Act_; advocacy focused on promoting government policies that will attain the benefits of competition in health-related markets; and outreach to health providers and consumers.
The Bureau is focusing its advocacy efforts on the generic drug industry and the self-regulated professions, while its enforcement activities are centred on combating health claims that victimize Canadians in the form of false or misleading representations, pyramid schemes, and deceptive marketing practices.


*Health Fraud*

Combating health fraud through enforcement and enhancing consumer information through outreach are a priority for the Bureau. Bogus weight-loss schemes, cure-all scams or products claiming amazing health effects are some of the many areas of health fraud targeted by the Bureau.


Health Fraud
*Compliance and Enforcement*

The Bureau is responsible for the administration and enforcement of the _Competition Act_, the _Consumer Packaging and Labelling Act_, the _Textile Labelling Act_ and the _Precious Metals Marking Act_. Where appropriate, the Bureau has applied these Acts to the health sector, using a balance between compliance and enforcement.


Compliance and Enforcement
*Advocacy*

Through advocacy, the Bureau seeks to promote legislation, regulations and government policies that maximize the benefits from competition. The Bureau does not advocate for competition at the expense of other societal goals. Instead, the Bureau strives to ensure that these other goals are achieved in a manner that least restricts the benefits from competition.
Advocacy




*Start sending in complaints to Ottawa and maybe we can get some action from that side*.

*The conventional and professional optician in BC is getting unfair competition from just about anybody who wants to, without any officially recognized profession, when selling prescription eye glasses as of May 1st, 2010.* 

*This might also flow over into other provinces and create a market that is free of controlled precision required, that can only be provided by learned professionals and is a duty that should not be left to practice by optical laboratories and lens manufacturers.* 

You can not be a Barber or a ladies hairdresser without proper credentials anywere in this country, but the consumer should accept prescrition glasses that the person delivering to them has no training, credentials or knowdledge to check if the prescription has been made according to the prescrition.
Pharmacies are getting more and more under government control how they handle medical prescriptions and in the eyglass business it looks to go the other way.

We are going backwards to the optical stone age principles and no government should allow this.

----------


## Chris Ryser

Competition Bureau
competitionbureau.gc.ca


*Online Forms*

This page contains forms needed for various requests relating to the Competition Bureau. If you cannot find the appropriate form, we invite you to contact our Information Centre at 1-800-348-5358.
CA Identification Number (_Textile Labelling Act_)  Online ApplicationComplaint FormInformation Request FormMerger Review Consultation Forum for stakeholdersNotifiable Transactions (mergers)  Forms (Short (s.16), Long (s.17)Subscribe to/Unsubscribe from the Competition Bureau Electronic Distribution ListUpdate your CA Identification Number
http://www.bureaudelaconcurrence.gc....g/h_03167.html

----------


## NorthStar

> Sorry, only a rumour floating around the industry at present. On reflection I should have looked for confirmation before posting.


What would be more interesting is who perpetrated this ridiculous rumour and if this rumour was intentionally created as part of some political spin to sway public opinion.

----------


## LandLord

Great post, Chris Ryser. Thank you.

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## Lutz

> What would be more interesting is who perpetrated this ridiculous rumour and if this rumour was intentionally created as part of some political spin to sway public opinion.


   Consider the benefits to all parties if contact lenses were dispensed in this manner.
  The on-line retailer receives increased business from quality referrals.
  The prescriber receives monetary benefits for the referrals and is able to monitor patient compliance.
  The patient receives the quality of eye care necessary for safe contact lens wear.

----------


## NorthStar

Do you actually believe the rumour that OD's will receive kick-backs from Coastal, and that kick-backs will actually ensure quality eye care? 
There is no Rx verification required; a person can self prescribe their own contacts without ever receiving an eye exam.  At least in the US, the FDA requires the internet supplier to at least attempt that the patient has a valid Rx for the contacts.  
Imagine if they attempted to do this with drug Rx's - maybe that's next.

----------


## Chris Ryser

Cap.D-12 
_Dispensing Opticians Act_
(c) the appointment and remuneration of teachers, examiners,
inspectors and such other persons as the board may employ, and
prescribing the duties of such persons;
(d) banking and finance and management of its property;
(e) entering into an agreement or agreements with any university,
school or college for such instructions, direction and lectures as may
be necessary for the purposes of this Act; and
(f) all other matters reasonably necessary for carrying out this Act.
R.S.P.E.I. 1974, Cap. D-12, s.5.
*5.* *
**
*(1) The registrar shall keep a register of all dispensing opticians,
showing their places of business or employment from time to time.
Register of
dispensing opticians
(2) When the registrar is satisfied that an applicant for registration is
entitled to be registered, he shall enter the name of the applicant in the
register and shall issue a certificate of registration to the applicant.
Certificate of
registration
(3) If an application for registration is refused by the registrar or an
entry is made in the register in error or by reason of misrepresentation,
the board may direct that the necessary entry, erasure or amendment be
made in the register and the registrar shall make the entry, erasure or
amendment. R.S.P.E.I. 1974, Cap. D-12, s.6.
Directions to
registrar
Qualifications for 

*6.* Every applicant shall be registered as a dispensing optician if he
registration 

(a) is eighteen years of age or over and is of good moral character;
(b) furnishes satisfactory evidence that he has
*(i) completed a course of study in a school of optical dispensing*
*approved under the regulations and has had practical training for*
*one year in Canada with a dispensing optician or optometrist,*
*(ii) completed at least three years training and experience in*
*optical dispensing, at least one of which was in Canada, under the*
*supervision of a legally qualified medical practitioner, dispensing*
*optician, optometrist, or a person who has equivalent*
*qualifications, and has completed a home study course as*
*prescribed by the regulations, or*
(iii) in the opinion of the board, the qualifications and experience
are equivalent to that set forth in subclauses (i) and (ii) and has
had one years experience in Canada, under the supervision of a
legally qualified medical practitioner, dispensing optician,
optometrist, or a person who has equivalent qualifications;
(c) has passed the examinations of the board; and
(d) has paid the prescribed fee. R.S.P.E.I. 1974, Cap. D-12, s.7;
1987, c.6, s.3.2

----------


## Lutz

> Do you actually believe the rumour that OD's will receive kick-backs from Coastal, and that kick-backs will actually ensure quality eye care? 
> There is no Rx verification required; a person can self prescribe their own contacts without ever receiving an eye exam.  At least in the US, the FDA requires the internet supplier to at least attempt that the patient has a valid Rx for the contacts.  
> Imagine if they attempted to do this with drug Rx's - maybe that's next.


More details are emerging. Yes I believe that  Clearly Contacts has a referral process, no I do not believe that it will  actually ensure quality eye care. Stay tuned.

 As the proposed new regulations are considered the  details become more Clearly defined. There will also be a similar requirement in  BC for a patient to confirm that contact lenses have been prescribed. 

The  government of BC is under pressure to reduce health care costs and has moved  towards having the consumer take responsibility for their own health care needs.  Consider the process that the Health Professions Council started in 2007 the  Scope of Practice / Legislative Review of Recognized Health Professions http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/leg/hpc/.../termsref.html

----------


## Oedema

> More details are emerging. Yes I believe that  Clearly Contacts has a referral process, no I do not believe that it will  actually ensure quality eye care. Stay tuned.
> 
>  As the proposed new regulations are considered the  details become more Clearly defined. There will also be a similar requirement in  BC for a patient to confirm that contact lenses have been prescribed. 
> 
> The  government of BC is under pressure to reduce health care costs and has moved  towards having the consumer take responsibility for their own health care needs.  Consider the process that the Health Professions Council started in 2007 the  Scope of Practice / Legislative Review of Recognized Health Professions http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/leg/hpc/.../termsref.html


BS... Optical/Optometry is not a major expenditure in health care, and its largely something consumers already pay for themselves.  

Secondly, I don't think clearly contacts will be referring patient to our office when our prices are already lower than theirs.

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## NorthStar

Maybe this had something to do with it.  Between April 20 and Dec. 10 2009 Coastal Contacts has donated a sum total of $10, 300 to the BC Liberal Party.  Their only other donation was in 2005 for $7500.
Good old fashioned politics.

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## optical maven

Received this from BC MPP


RE: Help stop changes to eye care regulations in BC‏
From: *Dix.MLA, Adrian* (Adrian.Dix.MLA@leg.bc.ca) Sent:April 9, 2010 7:51:39 

Thank you for your e-mail letter regarding the BC Liberal government’s changes to regulations governing eye professionals in British Columbia. The changes were announced on March 16th, 2010 and will come into force on May 1, 2010. I appreciate your concerns about the BC Liberals commitment to eye health given the current government’s previous downgrading of MSP coverage for eye exams in 2002.
These changes raise a number of concerns. Health Minister Kevin Falcon has acknowledged that he is acting now to assist one company – Clearly Contacts Inc. - to continue to fill prescriptions for contact lenses without seeing a prescription over the Internet. This comes in the wake of an October 26th, 2009 BC Court of Appeal decision ordering Clearly Contacts to change its business model or seek legislative change.
The decision to remove restrictions “allowing people to order glasses or contacts online without having to give the seller a copy of their prescription, sight-test assessment or contact-lens specifications,” and the “removal of most of the restrictions that allow only opticians or optometrists, or workers supervised by them, to dispense glasses or contacts” give priority to the corporate interests of one company over the eye health of BC residents. 
Such a decision in any event should only be made after consultation and consideration given that the evidence across jurisdictions supports the view that the dispensing of corrective lenses be done by eye care professionals.
For example, a study done by Dr. Fiona Stapleton (The Incidence of Contact Lens-Related Microbial Keratitis in Australia) found that patients who purchased their lenses over the Internet and did not have the benefit of professional advice and education had a 4.8 times greater risk of developing microbial keratitis. 

Instead of careful review, Minister Falcon has proceeded without discussion, favouring a company that gave almost $10,000 to the BC Liberal Party in recent years. This political contribution was made at a time when these very issues were before the government. Such actions undermine confidence in the government’s commitment to health and provoke cynicism about the process undertaken to arrive at this decision.
Further, the BC Liberal government is failing to follow its legislative decisions in making these changes. In 2008, the BC Legislature passed Bill 25, the Health Professions Amendment Act. The Act created Advisory Panels under the Health Professions Review Board to review issues of scope of practice. The idea was to provide an independent review of professional issues to guide ministerial action.
In response to my questions, then Minister George Abbott stated that the issues of scope of practice between optometrists and opticians would be an ideal subject for such a panel (http://www.leg.bc.ca/hansard/38th4th/h80526p.htm#12906 ). As Opposition Health critic, I agreed with that approach.
Ignoring this proposal from his predecessor and the process created by a bill his own government proposed and the BC Legislature unanimously adopted, Minister Falcon has decided to act without consultation to make a series of scope of practice changes. This doesn’t make sense. Instead, the government could have followed its own policy and referred these changes to an advisory panel prior to implementation. 
Rest assured we will raise our concerns about the government’s decisions during the legislative session. Thank you again for your e-mail. 

Adrian Dix, MLA
Opposition Health Critic

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## renee1111

> Received this from BC MPP
> 
> 
> RE: Help stop changes to eye care regulations in BC‏
> From: *Dix.MLA, Adrian* (Adrian.Dix.MLA@leg.bc.ca) Sent:April 9, 2010 7:51:39 
> 
> Thank you for your e-mail letter regarding the BC Liberal government’s changes to regulations governing eye professionals in British Columbia. The changes were announced on March 16th, 2010 and will come into force on May 1, 2010. I appreciate your concerns about the BC Liberals commitment to eye health given the current government’s previous downgrading of MSP coverage for eye exams in 2002.
> These changes raise a number of concerns. Health Minister Kevin Falcon has acknowledged that he is acting now to assist one company – Clearly Contacts Inc. - to continue to fill prescriptions for contact lenses without seeing a prescription over the Internet. This comes in the wake of an October 26th, 2009 BC Court of Appeal decision ordering Clearly Contacts to change its business model or seek legislative change.
> The decision to remove restrictions “allowing people to order glasses or contacts online without having to give the seller a copy of their prescription, sight-test assessment or contact-lens specifications,” and the “removal of most of the restrictions that allow only opticians or optometrists, or workers supervised by them, to dispense glasses or contacts” give priority to the corporate interests of one company over the eye health of BC residents. 
> ...


I received the same letter, very enlightening.  Actually it's the only passionate response I've received to date and I've contacted everyone on the BC and Ontario legislative assembly.  I haven't even gotten a response from our associations or colleges yet.

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## Excalibur

> I have just heard that BC Optometrists have made a deal with the devil (Coastal Contacts) to receive a kickback from every box of contact lenses sold to one of their patients.


Is this the same person who is saying the moon is made of green cheese?

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## AnotherOD

Incredible.  Just ~2 weeks left.

Can anyone see this being stopped?

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## Oedema

Doesn't look good :(

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## Refractingoptician.com

[;

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## Excalibur

the University of Waterloo School of Optometry has sent this letter today to BC government officials. 
http://www.opto.ca/media/docs/en/opt...20Services.pdf

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## AnotherOD

Good letter.  I don't think Falcon has anywhere to stand with his position.

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## kws6000

> Good letter.  I don't think Falcon has anywhere to stand with his position.



Sure he does...he can do whatever he wants...and there isnt anything you can do about it.....Unless you can demonstrate how his position can cost his party significant votes,or cost it financially,...he likely wont care.

As far as Falcon is concerned ,its a done deal.

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## LandLord

What are optometrists doing these days when patients ask for their base curve or contact lens rx?  Are you obliging?

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## AnotherOD

> Sure he does...he can do whatever he wants...and there isnt anything you can do about it.....Unless you can demonstrate how his position can cost his party significant votes,or cost it financially,...he likely wont care.
> 
> As far as Falcon is concerned ,its a done deal.


True.  I guess as an academic debate, he can't stand anywhere based on his claims.  But at a political level, he can do whatever he wants.

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## Oedema

> What are optometrists doing these days when patients ask for their base curve or contact lens rx?  Are you obliging?


I routinely provide patients with their full contact lens prescription (lens type/brand, powers, diameter, base curve, etc), provided they've undergone my fitting process.  If a patient has not been fitted there is no way in hell I'm recommending a base curve!  And you shouldn't either.

Do people actually ask you to just guess at what base curve they should be?  That sounds really odd...

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## LandLord

> I routinely provide patients with their full contact lens prescription (lens type/brand, powers, diameter, base curve, etc), provided they've undergone my fitting process. If a patient has not been fitted there is no way in hell I'm recommending a base curve! And you shouldn't either.
> 
> Do people actually ask you to just guess at what base curve they should be? That sounds really odd...


if your patient had a full eye exam from you a month ago, but was not fitted for contacts. then comes back in and wants a contact lens rx, what would you charge for that service?

I agree, i would not tell them a base curve either unless i had fitted them.  people do ask.  One lady the other day handed me an rx dated the same day and asked if i could measure her pd.  I asked why didn't she ask her eye doctor.  She said she did but was told she had to go to an optical store for that.  She said that seemed very odd considering the rx pad was pre-printed with the letters "PD" in the lower left corner.  I told her I would do it for $30. To my surprise she pulled out her debit card.

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## Oedema

I would charge my usual and customary contact lens evaluation/fit fee - depending on the type of lens required.  I won't say how much b/c the practice I'm in now does not charge enough...   In the amount of time it takes me to properly fit a contact lens I could do at least two, maybe three fully dilated eye exams - exams that pay a hell of a lot better.

I agree its an annoying that a lot of Rx pads do have PD preprinted, the clinic I'm in does too.  Sometimes we doctors skirt the whole issue by telling the person we don't do measurements for glasses and they have to see their optician and ask them about it...  I know, its not nice to you, but frankly these are usually the people I can't wait to get out of my own hair (and sometimes with these types I'm desperate!).  I tried putting a lot of thought into how best the PD thing should be explained, but I guess come May 1st it doesn't matter anymore.

The PD thing really makes my blood boil, I REALLY do not want to waste anymore of my time taking a figgin' PD.  AGHHHH :Mad:

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## fjpod

These rule changes are scary.  The following has happened to me a couple of times in NY.  A patient, who has never worn contacts, takes their spectacle Rx and contacts an online CL seller, who then proceeds to tell them which CLs they should wear.  Now I mark my Rx blank with the words, " for spectacles only".

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## Refractingoptician.com

> I would charge my usual and customary contact lens evaluation/fit fee - depending on the type of lens required. I won't say how much b/c the practice I'm in now does not charge enough... In the amount of time it takes me to properly fit a contact lens I could do at least two, maybe three fully dilated eye exams - exams that pay a hell of a lot better.
> 
> I agree its an annoying that a lot of Rx pads do have PD preprinted, the clinic I'm in does too. Sometimes we doctors skirt the whole issue by telling the person we don't do measurements for glasses and they have to see their optician and ask them about it... I know, its not nice to you, but frankly these are usually the people I can't wait to get out of my own hair (and sometimes with these types I'm desperate!). I tried putting a lot of thought into how best the PD thing should be explained, but I guess come May 1st it doesn't matter anymore.
> 
> The PD thing really makes my blood boil, I REALLY do not want to waste anymore of my time taking a figgin' PD. AGHHHH


Write the PD down in code , make it yards or inches or both or make it a baseline number plus or minus another number that is meaningfull to you . You will still have provided the PD but it just is not in mm . Make it in letters AA or A-C or whatever . 

DO NOT CO OPERATE and make life easy for Coastal or Kevin Falcon  . F 'm just like they are doing to you. 

They are not playing by the law . Why should you ? They are making things up as they go . You do it too .  PD could be recordered as + 4  or - 3   or whatever, relative to your own baseline number. IF they want a seg height , give em that too . but measured from the eyebrows down .

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## kws6000

> What are optometrists doing these days when patients ask for their base curve or contact lens rx?  Are you obliging?



Sure...if they pay me for a trial fit.

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## Chris Ryser

> *Seriously, if there's mega online competition, and low, low margins, many will go bankrupt. How many jobs can you produce at $39? Not for long they can't.*


 
Most online sellers use chinese labs and frame sellers, which have a different concept on margins.
They pay much more realistic prices than we do this side of the Pacific and they work with margins tagged to volume which they seem to be getting. Their volume seems to go up continously as their website traffic increases indicate.

Don't wait, take action and get it going.

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## watevah

Glasses online? B.C. optometrists take a dim view

Read some of the comments to this article.

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## watevah

Bylaw revision would allow pharmacy technicians to fill prescriptions unsupervised (click to read)

What the heck is going on in BC? Now they're going to let pharmacy techs, with only 8 months of education post high school, dispense drugs without supervision???

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## LandLord

Maybe BC will start letting the average citizen change laws without having any legal education.

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## Excalibur

> Maybe BC will start letting the average citizen change laws without having any legal education.


You are correct. A new clause will allow political staff to sit in the legislature and vote on behalf of the MLA while the latter is on the golf course.

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## AnotherOD

So what's the deal now with opticians in BC? I was under the impression that opticianry still exists, but that dispensing is unregulated. 

I had a conversation with an RO today who said that opticianry in BC as a profession is now extinct - the reason being, is that dispensing is unregulated, and therefore anyone can be an optician - and since anyone can be an optician - this would cause problems for other problems due to license portability via the AIT - therefore they have simply done away with opticianry. So what is the truth?

Here's the BC College website:
http://www.cobc.ca/

This person has also told me the 6-month training course for opticianry is now effectively gone. This doesn't make sense to me, since a regulation that deregulates dispensing doesn't mean "opticianry" can't be taught. Maybe folks who graduate don't get licensese, but the knowledge can still be shared in academic institutions. The BC school website is here, and there is no mention of them being closed down.
http://www.bccollegeofoptics.ca/main.html

Another optician told me you can take the BC 6-monther, then apply to Alberta for a license, then apply to other provinces via AIT.

So what's the deal? And with regards to refraction - is it still a controlled act? Or can anyone refract?

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## optical maven

Refraction has never been a controlled act (in Ontario).  Neither has measuring someones blood pressure.  Diagnosing and prescribing are controlled act.  So gathering the information is in the public domain, but using the information requires education.

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## AnotherOD

I guess what I meant was, is prescribing a refraction a controlled act in BC now?  Or can anyone do it?

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## idispense

> I guess what I meant was, is prescribing a refraction a controlled act in BC now? Or can anyone do it?


It's a moote question. It was illegal to sell contacts and eyeglasses without being an optician  and first having a prescription. That did not stop anyone. 

In Ontario , the regulators have not been able to govern Great Glasses and stop them from refracting and dispensing without so much as an opticians license.

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## Chris Ryser

Well Well Well ..........................................

We are back to what I remember about BC in the 1960s and early 1970s when being on the road selling frames...............................

*the optical jungle*

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