# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  Newbie to glasses... help me out here, please

## lin19

Hi everyone. I really need some advice on progressives as this is my first time to wear glasses, other than drug store reading glasses. I noticed that the reading glasses alone are not working for me anymore since my distance has starting getting somewhat blurry. Anyway, I would like to go with a progressive if possible. My question is which one...I can get a good deal on Ovation at Costco, but their AR is questionable. I think it is Divex or something like that. Also, I can get the Ellipse with the Endura AR at a good deal elsewhere. Is that a good AR? I can tell you that all the chains that I have been to, don't know anything. In fact, I think I know more than they do since I have been reading on this forum and trying to be an informed consumer. I am on a limited budget (retired) and trying to meet my needs without breaking the bank. It seems that the private pratice is too expensive for me, at least in my area. I would appreciate your input on the above lens and AR and also if you think I should even go with a progressive or a FT since my add is +225. Here is my prescription...and thank you very much for input!

Dist.   
 OD    Sphere +150    Cyl -050     axis 090 
 OS   Sphere  +150    cyl  DS 

Add +225 R & L

Thank You,
Linda

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## QDO1

Go find a competent qualified professional - they will ensure your correction is filled excelently.  Sounds smug, but trust me, that is the very best advice you will get

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## lin19

QDO1, I wish I could afford to do that, but as I said I am on a limited budget. Not to be smug, but can't you just give me a little help with some of the questions that I asked about. Thanks!

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## chip anderson

Lin19.  Give some thought to how much you spend on shoes or pantyhose in a year.  Glasses are something you are going wear (on your face no less).  Isn't your appearance to the world and the world's appearance to you  worth more than the appearance of your feet or legs?


Chip

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## lin19

I don't spend money on shoes & panty hose...I am retired and trying to live on Social Security. I can't remember when I last bought a new pair of shoes and I don't wear hose anymore. I have to live frugally, so any purchase I make must be a necessity.

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## QDO1

the first decision to make is: bifocals or PAL's. To help us help you make this decision, please let us know about how you fill your day.  Pay particular attention to near tasks, hobbies, computer usage, driving etc.

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## Alvaro Cordova

> Hi everyone. I really need some advice on progressives as this is my first time to wear glasses, other than drug store reading glasses. I noticed that the reading glasses alone are not working for me anymore since my distance has starting getting somewhat blurry. Anyway, I would like to go with a progressive if possible. My question is which one...I can get a good deal on Ovation at Costco, but their AR is questionable. I think it is Divex or something like that. Also, I can get the Ellipse with the Endura AR at a good deal elsewhere. Is that a good AR? I can tell you that all the chains that I have been to, don't know anything. In fact, I think I know more than they do since I have been reading on this forum and trying to be an informed consumer. I am on a limited budget (retired) and trying to meet my needs without breaking the bank. It seems that the private pratice is too expensive for me, at least in my area. I would appreciate your input on the above lens and AR and also if you think I should even go with a progressive or a FT since my add is +225. Here is my prescription...and thank you very much for input!
> 
> Dist.   
>  OD    Sphere +150    Cyl -050     axis 090 
>  OS   Sphere  +150    cyl  DS 
> 
> Add +225 R & L
> 
> Thank You,
> Linda


This is a catch 22.  If I tell you product X is great, then you will go get product X.  The problem is that Product X is crap if it isn't measured, processed or adjusted properly.  Product Y on the other hand, in capable hands, will perform better than product X despite being "inferior."  The "superior product" and a capable optician is wht you should be looking for.  Name brands alone don't cut it because a pair of glasses are customized to you.  I am not giving you this answer to be a jerk.  This really is the answer.

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## QDO1

as the DUDE says.  we can get you to the point where you select the right product, but the rest is in the hands of the person who dispenses you.  Yesterday I worked (as a locum) in a multiple similar to the one you were talking about earlier. I checked 51 progressives. Amazingly 48 of the progressives were set at the minimum fitting height. Trust me - this should not happen - That is an example of "doing what you are told by the corporation" instead of "doing the right thing for the patient"I would love to dispense you properly, but alas the UK isnt very close.  a good question to ask is "would any one recommend a value practitioner in my area, who knows what they are doing"

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## lin19

"Amazingly 48 of the progressives were set at the minimum fitting height. Trust me - this should not happen "

QDO1, what should they be set at? In reference to my lifestyle, I use the computer a lot (hours at a time) and I like to read and work in my yard. I also drive ...mostly in my neighborhood, no long distance trips. Thanks...I appreciate your interest.

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## QDO1

> "Amazingly 48 of the progressives were set at the minimum fitting height. Trust me - this should not happen "
> 
> QDO1, what should they be set at? In reference to my lifestyle, I use the computer a lot (hours at a time) and I like to read and work in my yard. I also drive ...mostly in my neighborhood, no long distance trips. Thanks...I appreciate your interest.


they should be set at exactly at the patients pupil height in the frame.  sometimes this will happen to be at the minimum fitting height, sometimes higher than that

what that statistic says is that the fitting height for many of those jobs was too high for the patient.. Too high is the cardinal sin of progressive fitting, as the patients distance vision will be adulterated with the top part of the progression (intermediate)

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## Alvaro Cordova

> they should be set at exactly at the patients pupil height in the frame.  sometimes this will happen to be at the minimum fitting height, sometimes higher than that
> 
> what that statistic says is that the fitting height for many of those jobs was too high for the patient.. Too high is the cardinal sin of progressive fitting, as the patients distance vision will be adulterated with the top part of the progression (intermediate)


Unless they are extremely short or tall I would add and this again is why someone who knows what they are doing will fit things more to your lifestyle and take into account the obvious and the not so obvious.

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## Happylady

Okay, I'll bite.

The Ovation is a reasoanbly good progressive. Yes, there are better ones, but it's decent. I don't know anything about Costco's AR so I can't help you there. It is important with AR to RINSE the lenses daily and use mild soap/dish soap or an AR cleaner. I recommend drying with a Bounty(the orginal kind)paper towel, clean AR cloth, or a clean cotton cloth.

If you really need inexpensive glasses Costco has them. When you go sound the optician out and see if they know what they are doing. When she measures you she should preadjust the frames and make sure they are sitting on your nose where you want them to. If you are used to wearing just reading glasses you might need to wear them a little higher.

The optican should be level with you, not higher or lower. She should mark your pupil with a marker on the demo lenses. I use a penlight to find the corneal reflex, but not all opticians do this. She should double check this. I generally draw a line right at the bottom of this mark and use that for the height. I might adjust it if the person tends to hold his head high or is very tall.

She should measure your pupil distance with a instrument she holds to your eyes.She should compare the pd she got with this to the pd she marked on the lenses. Make sure she takes mono pds( one for each eye).

Proper measurements are extremely important so if they seem careless you might want to nicely question them.

Good luck!

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## GoodAsGold

It's ironic that in our family, it's my husband who has the eye insurance--VSP. And, yet it's *me* who needs the expensive glasses.  :Rolleyes:  But, I have to agree that while it does cost a pretty penny, these glasses basically ARE my eyes, so I don't mind investing in a quality exam and equally quality pair of spectacles. That doesn't mean that I'm going to buy the most expensive frame because it happens to have the name Prada on it. I'm a bit more frugal in that dept. I'm more of a middle-of-the-road person when it comes to the frames. I'm looking for durability and practicality first, as well as design---not necessarily designER. But, I won't skimp on the actual progressive lenses if it means cheating myself out of a good pair of EYES that I rely on daily.




> Lin19. Give some thought to how much you spend on shoes or pantyhose in a year. Glasses are something you are going wear (on your face no less). Isn't your appearance to the world and the world's appearance to you worth more than the appearance of your feet or legs?
> 
> 
> Chip

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## lin19

Happylady,Thank you so much for the info!! Another question, what about the Pd measurements that are on my prescription...58/55? Is this sufficient to get a proper measurement? Also, what about the Varilux Ellipse...have your had luck with that? Thanks again happylady, you are very helpful.

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## Happylady

> Happylady,Thank you so much for the info!! Another question, what about the Pd measurements that are on my prescription...58/55? Is this sufficient to get a proper measurement? Also, what about the Varilux Ellipse...have your had luck with that? Thanks again happylady, you are very helpful.


NO, the measurements of 58/55 are the distance between your eyes at distance(58) and near(55). They do not take into account that each eye could be a different distance. In most cases it WILL be different. You need to make sure the optician takes a mono pd, which means each eye is measured separately. If she doesn't walk away! 

The instrument I mentioned is a pupilimeter and it does take separate meaurements. She should use one. Since I have already marked the patients pupil centers with a marker I then compare them to the measurement I get with the pupilmeter. It should be within 1/2 mm. If not I remeasure again. 

It is very important that the measurements are correct. I saw a study that showed  that the success rate if progressives were 95% if fit correctly but fell to 55% if the pd was off as little as 1.5 mm.

The Ellipse is the progressive I use if the fitting height is between 14 and 16. I will also use if at 17 but there are other ones I like for that height, also. It seems to have a good distance area and a decent near area.

I have a pair of Hoya CDs that can also be fit as low as 14. I don't like them and never fit them now. The distance area seems poor to me.

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## lin19

Great info Happylady! Now at least, I know what to watch for when I go to get my glasses. I appreciate finally getting some answers!

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## lin19

I have yet another question...is it possible to just pay a real optician to fit my own frame and then buy my glasses (Ellipse) elsewhere(really good price)?

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## Judy Canty

Not in my world.

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## Happylady

> I have yet another question...is it possible to just pay a real optician to fit my own frame and then buy my glasses (Ellipse) elsewhere(really good price)?


That would be an insult to the optician. Were you not impressed with the optician at the place fitting the Ellipse? Maybe that is one reason it was cheaper, because they hire less experienced people.

Many private places will cut you a deal if you ask nicely. I know we give a senior discount of 20%.

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## chip anderson

Sounds more and more like you want to go first class and pay for tourist.

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## lin19

chip, Everyone would prefer to go First Class...but not everyone has the means to do so. I bet if you were booking a flight for first class,You would be looking for the best price, and that price may not be in your budget either! I'm just trying to get a good pair of glasses that fit me right with the budget that I have. That may not be possible for me. Maybe I should just go with a flat top and be done with it. Isn't that easier to fit & lower in price?

No, Happylady. I was not impressed with the people that are selling the  Ellipse. No knowledge at all!

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## Alvaro Cordova

As long as you don't go with brand name alone and actually seek a knowledgable person to help you with your glasses, you'll do well.  I do understand what you are going through.  Flat tops are an avenue you can explore too.  I like them.

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## lin19

theDude,Thank You for your kind words and understanding.

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## Happylady

I agree with theDude. Find an optician you trust that knows what she/he is doing. Tell them what you need the glasses to do, they will help you find the right lens for you.

I did notice you said you spent hours on the computer. Sometimes progressives work well for computer but the intermediate areas of most progressives are not huge. If your computer screen is straight ahead and not down a little you will need to raise your chin with a progressive to see it. It is possible that your present reading glasses will make an okay pair of glasses for the computer, though, if they are working for the computer now.

Even if I measured you in your frame and you took those measurements to the place that sold the Ellipse they still might not be right.  If they order the lenses and cut them there they might not do it right, they might not put the height correctly or the pd correctly. They might not make sure the lenses are laid out straight. 

If they order them done from an outside lab they might be sloppy with their standards when they check them in. They might not be good at adjusting the frame. Proper adjustment can mean the difference between progressives working or not working.

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## Happylady

Also I need to add that going from a full reading glass to a progressive will mean a smaller reading area. If you go with a small enough frame that you need a lens like the Ellipse you will get an even smaller area. You might do fine with it, but it will be an adjustment.

You might be happier in a progressive if you try to find a frame that would give you at least 20 mm for a fitting height. It will give you a larger area. The Ellipse has a decent reading area but if you are going with a frame that has a fitting height of 17 mm or less you can't help but have less reading area. It is something to consider. I don't recommend the Ellipse in a frame that allows more then 17 mm fitting height. It isn't designed for that.

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## lin19

Thanks again Happylady! A lot of things to consider. I would love to go with a progressive, but I may not be able too, since I wouldn't trust the chains to fit me right and unfortunately don't think I can afford to go to an optican. Are the flat tops easier to fit...do they have to be measured so exact as the progressives?

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## Alvaro Cordova

> theDude,Thank You for your kind words and understanding.


Oh yeah, don't forget that if you do a lot of up-close work you may simply benefit from a second pair of single vision glasses for the computer and go real simple.  Saves money and a crimped neck.

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## Happylady

> Thanks again Happylady! A lot of things to consider. I would love to go with a progressive, but I may not be able too, since I wouldn't trust the chains to fit me right and unfortunately don't think I can afford to go to an optican. Are the flat tops easier to fit...do they have to be measured so exact as the progressives?


There are plenty of great opticians at chain stores. Don't assume that a private optical or doctor's office with an optical will be more expensive, they aren't necessarily. Lots will give a senior discount, ask.

Flat tops have advantages and disadvantages just like progressives. You will find a range of opinions on them here. I have known progressive wears that got a flat top for various reasons and some have liked them and some have hated them.

The advantages of flat tops: they offer a wider reading area and a clearer peripheral area. They are cheaper. Yes, they are easier to fit, but I see lots of times when they are fit too high or too low. When they are fit poorly it is harder to hide it, though, as the line is visible.

The disadvantages; no intermediate area (that is why some people get trifocals), no gradual change-there is an abupt change at the line. The line is right there in your middle vision.

Progressives are not bifocals. They offer a gradual change from distance to near. There is a correction for every distance, you just need to adjust your head to find it. I wear them and like them but I have never worn a bifocal.

Most places will remake a progressive into a flat top if you can't adjust to it. Generally you don't get the difference in price back, but it does give some peace of mind. Ask about it.

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## Les Moss

While the pros on this forum will always say "find a competent qualified professional", we as consumers know that is really impossible, unless we get really lucky. This is true in all areas of health care, not just opticians.  

On a budget, I would not get AR. I have worn progresssives without AR for 20 years and recently got AR (Varilux Crizal Alize) on my current prescription.  I don't realy notice a significant difference.

You should also consider if you really want progressive lenses. You must commit to getting used to them and with your prescription, since you see pretty well without glasses, that may be difficult. Two pairs of single vision glasses would probably serve you very well.

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## Happylady

> While the pros on this forum will always say "find a competent qualified professional", we as consumers know that is really impossible, unless we get really lucky. This is true in all areas of health care, not just opticians. 
> 
> On a budget, I would not get AR. I have worn progresssives without AR for 20 years and recently got AR (Varilux Crizal Alize) on my current prescription. I don't realy notice a significant difference.
> 
> You should also consider if you really want progressive lenses. You must commit to getting used to them and with your prescription, since you see pretty well without glasses, that may be difficult. Two pairs of single vision glasses would probably serve you very well.


I disagree about getting two pairs. Yes, I have had patients do that but usually because they tried bifocals or progressives and didn't like them. I would not start there, it is a real pain to have to switch all the time. I don't see how it would be much cheaper if any.

As for AR, I notice a huge difference with AR. Without it I get lots of reflections in my lenses and it bugs me. It is true that some people don't notice a lot of difference, some people are just not sensitive to reflections, but most people see better. It allows more light to reach your eyes so it is kind of like turning the lights up in the room a little brighter. Without it only 92% of light reaches your eyes with standard plastic(only 88% with poly). With it about 99% does.

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## lin19

Thanks all, I am going to sleep on all this info tonight. Tomorrow I will go out again & see if I can find someone that knows something. Happylady, I have already been to several chains & haven't found a qualified optician yet, but tomorrow is a new day & perhaps I will get lucky!  I will check back in tomorrow & let you know how it went. Thanks all and goodnight!

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## GoodAsGold

Years ago when I got my first progressives I had AR. I had them take it off later because it had a rainbow-like area in the inside top corners of the lens. It just looked strange. The OD said the company had been having some problems. Anyway, they took it off. Okay...now I've been told that the AR is better nowadays. I suppose it depends on the manufaturer, etc. I would like to try it when I order my new progressives. I seem to be used to the glare, but I think for driving at night it would be an improvement. Also, I think it would be nice for people to be able to see my eyes without seeing their own reflection or the surrounding lights in my glasses. Would you say AR is worth it just for that?






> I disagree about getting two pairs. Yes, I have had patients do that but usually because they tried bifocals or progressives and didn't like them. I would not start there, it is a real pain to have to switch all the time. I don't see how it would be much cheaper if any.
> 
> As for AR, I notice a huge difference with AR. Without it I get lots of reflections in my lenses and it bugs me. It is true that some people don't notice a lot of difference, some people are just not sensitive to reflections, but most people see better. It allows more light to reach your eyes so it is kind of like turning the lights up in the room a little brighter. Without it only 92% of light reaches your eyes with standard plastic(only 88% with poly). With it about 99% does.

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## Jubilee

As someone who used to work for the chain stores, there are a lot of independent opticians that are cheaper. Even with out a sale...

In fact, at my office.. The everyday pricing we have will often beat there sale!

Cassandra

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## Happylady

> Years ago when I got my first progressives I had AR. I had them take it off later because it had a rainbow-like area in the inside top corners of the lens. It just looked strange. The OD said the company had been having some problems. Anyway, they took it off. Okay...now I've been told that the AR is better nowadays. I suppose it depends on the manufaturer, etc. I would like to try it when I order my new progressives. I seem to be used to the glare, but I think for driving at night it would be an improvement. Also, I think it would be nice for people to be able to see my eyes without seeing their own reflection or the surrounding lights in my glasses. Would you say AR is worth it just for that?


There are great ARs and poor ARs and the all look the same at the beginning. The poor ones don't hold up well, they scratch and craze. They are harder to clean. The good ones are MUCH better then they used to be.

Some good ones are Crizal, Crizal Alize, and the new Crizal Alize with Clear Guard. Carat Advantage is also quite good. Hoya Super High Vision is great but can go on a limited number of lenses. Some people like Teflon, but I personally don't think it is quite as good. Its not bad, though. There are other good ones but these are the ones I am most familar with.

If you need a cheaper Ar Zeiss Super ET is a decent one. It might not be quite as scratch resistant as Crizal but I have rarely had one scratch badly or craze.

Someone I work with used to work at Eye Masters and told me the house AR they use is poor. That is all I know about that, though.

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## lin19

Hi every one, just want to give you an update on my search for progressives. I did have better luck today on finding more qualified opticians.  Most were pushing the Ovation. I got different price quotes from all three that I went to. I went to 2 indivudual Opticians and one was priced at $274.00 in a plastic Ovation. The other was priced at $299 for Ovation polycarb.+frame $39.99(sale). I think he got mixed up on his price though, because I also asked for a quote on Varalux Comfort and he told me $259. Plus frame at $39.99(sale), this also includes the Crizal. I thought the Comfort was supposed to be higher. I also went back to Target and got a quote of $177. for Ovation Polycarb+frame 1/2 off.

If I go with the Ovation, I will probably get it at Costco...only $129.00 Polycarb + frame. The AR they use is Vivex, I think that is a good one...anyone know? I would have to buy a Costco membership at $45. before I can purchase glasses though.

Also I did get a Quote on SOLA one for $269.with Crizal AR +frame $39.99. 

Thats pretty much it ...had a full day of shopping for glasses.

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## fjpod

> Hi every one, just want to give you an update on my search for progressives. I did have better luck today on finding more qualified opticians. Most were pushing the Ovation. I got different price quotes from all three that I went to. I went to 2 indivudual Opticians and one was priced at $274.00 in a plastic Ovation. The other was priced at $299 for Ovation polycarb.+frame $39.99(sale). I think he got mixed up on his price though, because I also asked for a quote on Varalux Comfort and he told me $259. Plus frame at $39.99(sale), this also includes the Crizal. I thought the Comfort was supposed to be higher. I also went back to Target and got a quote of $177. for Ovation Polycarb+frame 1/2 off.
> 
> If I go with the Ovation, I will probably get it at Costco...only $129.00 Polycarb + frame. The AR they use is Vivex, I think that is a good one...anyone know? I would have to buy a Costco membership at $45. before I can purchase glasses though.
> 
> Also I did get a Quote on SOLA one for $269.with Crizal AR +frame $39.99. 
> 
> Thats pretty much it ...had a full day of shopping for glasses.


Lin19...Don't forget to factor in the cost of running around to the different opticals...gas, time. Not that there is anything wrong with being an educated consumer, but you should go with the provider that you feel is going to give you the best service and support once you purchase...because you have really only scratched the surface of knowledge regarding glasses.

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## spartus

> Hi every one, just want to give you an update on my search for progressives. I did have better luck today on finding more qualified opticians.  Most were pushing the Ovation. I got different price quotes from all three that I went to. I went to 2 indivudual Opticians and one was priced at $274.00 in a plastic Ovation. The other was priced at $299 for Ovation polycarb.+frame $39.99(sale). I think he got mixed up on his price though, because I also asked for a quote on Varalux Comfort and he told me $259. Plus frame at $39.99(sale), this also includes the Crizal. I thought the Comfort was supposed to be higher. I also went back to Target and got a quote of $177. for Ovation Polycarb+frame 1/2 off.
> 
> If I go with the Ovation, I will probably get it at Costco...only $129.00 Polycarb + frame. The AR they use is Vivex, I think that is a good one...anyone know? I would have to buy a Costco membership at $45. before I can purchase glasses though.
> 
> Also I did get a Quote on SOLA one for $269.with Crizal AR +frame $39.99. 
> 
> Thats pretty much it ...had a full day of shopping for glasses.


Regardless of where you eventually get your glasses, do get the Costco membership.

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## Happylady

Sola One is one of my favorite progressives. I didn't know that you could put Crizal on it, though. I will ask my lab about that today, I know you didn't used to be able to. 

I heard from someone that used to work at Target that their lab is not very good. Maybe it has gotten better.

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## rj_gonzales

lin19, Where in Texas are you located?

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## lin19

I am located in the Fort Worth area.

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## lin19

Actually I'm not that far from Southlake.

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## rj_gonzales

pm sent. :Cool:

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## Happylady

I am in Lewisville Texas.

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## lin19

Hey Happylady, I didn't know that we are almost neighbors! I am in Watauga, right near the Keller line.

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## rj_gonzales

Too funny, I work in Southlake, but I live right off 377 and N Tarrant.:bbg:

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