# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  Cheating colour blindness?

## MHodal

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## QDO1

Ishihara test's all look the same to me and follow the same format.  There are other colour blindness tests, which may be performed if the patient is malingering or thought to be cheating.  A good Optician will have enough experience to know "whats going on" and could always present the plates in a different order

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## fjpod

> Hi all, I have searched the forums and found no such information on this subject. 
> 
> I have read many such topics all over the internet which points to the direction that the Ishihara test for colour blindness can not be cheated. First of all, is this information true? Are the Ishihara tests printed randomly that differ from place to place? Or carry one generic format?
> 
> I have also read topics that shown people have "trained" there eyes to pass the test plates. Is this something that can be done, or once again is this false information?
> 
> Thankyou for any answers given. 
> 
> MHodal.


I could be wrong, but I don't believe that Ishihara plates are printed randomly to prevent cheating.  I do believe there have been several different editions over the years, with different numbers on the plates.

I have had patients who seem to be able to "cheat" the test by remembering the pattern that they see, and giving the expected answser.  I don't think they could do it though if you threw a different edition at them.  

There is a professor (optometrist) at the SUNY College of Optometry who has extensive knowledge in this area.  He once "trained" a patient of mine to pass the D-15 test. 

Then, of course, there is the X-Chrom lens ( and variants thereof).

Welcome to a forum member from down under.

Your occupation is listed as CDT.  Could you enlighten us stateside?

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## chip anderson

In addittion to the X-Chrome lens the Japanese a few years back were using electroshock therapy to "cure and alliviate" colorblindness.  All who would cheat should have electorshock, it's good for them.

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## MHodal

Thankyou all for your input. 

fjpod; I am currently a Royal Australian Navy Clearance Diving Team candidate. I have my final interviews and acceptance tests in the upcoming month and one of the requirements is a Colour Perception 2 level of vision. 

I know most of you would probably frown when you hear the words "cheating" and "vision test" in the same sentence. But this isn't exactly something I've thought up overnight and am not aware of potential risks inherited with such perception. At this point of time (and I would like to aquire a professional oppinion) I have found no such information which states that any such incidents or risks involved are linked to colour blindness. 

I am the holder of a CPL(H). I marginally failed the _Farnsworth Lantern_ test, but scored 100% in the _Farnsworth Munsell_. I am able to differ between navigational beacons at night as well. During my time in the aviation industry (only a couple of years) I have seen nothing that would act as a risk to those with colour deficiency. 

Since the military is non-leniant on how much of a fail, but a fail is a fail. And that's what I'm concerned about.

MHodal.

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## rbaker

Here in the USA the FAA will accept a SODA (Statement of Demonstrated Ability) from a flight instructor in lieu of passing any of the numerous color vision tests administered by an AME (Aviation Medical Examiner.) Up until a few years ago I held an ATP Rating and have over 9500 hours of flight time of which 3400 hours is military helo time. I cant think of any situation when color vision was critical to the performance of my duties as an air crewman. My own thoughts are that if you can read a sectional chart under various flight deck lighting environments and correctly interpret tower light signals than off you go. In fact, a few years ago the FAA considered eliminating the color vision requirement for all classes of medical certificates including first class.

The military, however, is another story. If the Australian Navy is half as tight arsed as the US Marine Corps you will need all of the help you can get and that includes cheating, bribes, political influence or sleeping with the Admirals ugly daughter.

Good luck and keep your turns up.

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## Lewy

The last few plates in my copy of Ishihara appear to be random dots but do in fact have numbers visible to people with a colour defficiency. If i think someone is cheating i always get them to view one of these plates, gets them every time!

Lewy

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## fjpod

[QUOTE=MHodal]Thankyou all for your input. 

I know most of you would probably frown when you hear the words "cheating" and "vision test" in the same sentence. {QUOTE=Modal]

Pay no mind to that comment about cheating. The poster makes negative comments about everybody and everything. 

You're right that many individuals with "abnormal" color vision can perform job functions properly. I once treated a Coast Guard Officer who was denied bridge duty due to his inability to see semaphores. After fitting him with an X-Chrom contact lens, he was able to pass all the color tests, and the Coast Guard declared him fit for duty. If it's necessary to improve your color vision, even if it makes no difference except in how you perform on the color test, you might want to look into being fit with this lens.

I am totally unaware that electo-shock therapy is used to treat color vision deficiency. I heard though, that it is used for behavior modification and certain personality disorders.

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## MHodal

Thankyou all for the input on the regarded subject. 

I'm not one to ***** about the problem, the military will not listen to sob stories or give me a waiver based on them. Now if this decision was the same as trying to cheat asthma, or some kind of injury that would put lives in risk if something went wrong, but as far as I can see, their are no reported cases of colour blindness effecting the outcome of a situation. And until a point of time that there is a situation that presents itself, I feel no wrong in giving the big finger and working my way around it. 

rbaker; It seems that the Americans are much more relaxed about this rule. I must admit, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority specifies that no one with a class 2 medical may hold an ATPL. I fly at day, night, any job that is under a maximum of 7 people in my machine. Now how is it that if I can carry 7 around, I'm not eligible to fly 15 or so in a Super Puma?

fjpod; I am interested in how the eyes are trained for this. As I've always thought, muscles can be built up and senses can be sharpened with practice. Just like wine, it all tastes the same to me and a lot of other people, yet wine tasters have learnt to distinguish. 

My question about the X-chrom lens is how noticeable is this? I'm sure the department of defence's optometrist wouldn't be some half-wit who wouldn't no the difference between my 2 different coloured eyes. If not the ishihara, would this be an adequate substitution in correctly identifying all colours on the farnsworth lantern in darkness?

Once again, thankyou for the help. Greatly appreciated.

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## fjpod

> Thankyou all for the input on the regarded subject. 
> 
> fjpod; I am interested in how the eyes are trained for this. As I've always thought, muscles can be built up and senses can be sharpened with practice. Just like wine, it all tastes the same to me and a lot of other people, yet wine tasters have learnt to distinguish. 
> 
> My question about the X-chrom lens is how noticeable is this? I'm sure the department of defence's optometrist wouldn't be some half-wit who wouldn't no the difference between my 2 different coloured eyes. If not the ishihara, would this be an adequate substitution in correctly identifying all colours on the farnsworth lantern in darkness?
> 
> Once again, thankyou for the help. Greatly appreciated.


.

I'm not that familiar on the therapy for this, but I think it centers around retraining the brain to make comparisons of color differently. So, just like we learn to organize shades of color, we can relearn it using different criteria.

If your military doesn't allow you to use it, or take the color test with it, the X-Chrom lens might be a waste of time. The lens has a bright red color to it. If you have dark brown eyes, it is not too noticeable. If you have light or blue eyes, it sticks out like a sore thumb. It is not normally used at night. We all have reduced color vision at night.

If you have access to a college of optometry in Australia, perhaps you could inquire if they have a department that specializes in color vision testing and amelioration. 

If you PM me with your email address, I might be able to put you in contact with an expert in this field that I know at the State University of New York College of Optometry. Maybe he could give you some help.

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## chip anderson

I hate to tell you this, but if you can find a small rigid lens manufacturer in your area.  Many years ago, when I was just a lab tech, we used to make lenes for gamblers in Houston.  Actually most of the gamblers were in Galveston, but that's beside the point.  These lenses were to see marked cards.   The penalty for getting caught with them was death or at least broken fingers and hands.

To avoid this we would take the approriate filtering plastic tint.  Turn the blank down to about 5 mm, then drill a 5mm hole in a clear blank.  We would force the center in the hole with ethylene dicloride and wait a while.  Then we would machine a  lens for one eye with this blank and a clear one for the fellow eye.  If suspicion was to fall upon the fellow, he would pop out the clear one and say: "See my lenses are not tinted."

Presumably this kept the gambler/customer alive.

Chip

This could be done with X=Chrome or imitators blanks.

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## chip anderson

:Eek:  Now as to the shock therapy.  As I remember reading it, the patient is given color chips, calls the color and if he gets it wrong, he gets an electric shock.  According to the article ones color preception improves very dramaticly.  Some from a handfull of colors to thousands.


Chip

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## MHodal

I've heard a few cases of people training there eyes to pass the Ishihara test, one such case was done by a policeman (colour blindness is not accepted into the police force either) but I haven't been able to track him down.

I have seen other lenses such as the Chromagen, which seem to look exactly like normal lenses with no visible alteration to the actual eyes colour. I might look into this if other means of achieving the same result are not looking so good.

And chip, I'll be sure to keep that method in mind if I ever want to make a quick buck. But I'd like to go into the medical with colour blindness being my only problem, not broken fingers. 

That electrical shock therapy looks alright, I wonder if I could make a primitive model using just a knife and a toaster? Worth a try I guess. Joking, joking.

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## QDO1

you could always buy your own Ishihara test and practice

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## MHodal

That's probably my number 1 bet, as someone said, that different editions have come out, I wouldn't know which one to practice.

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## QDO1

ring them up.. you are doing some research for a manufacturer... "what edition Ishihara do you use?"  sling in a few more questions too, and you will know waht to order

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## MHodal

Good idea mate, I'll definately give it a go.

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## S007R

Greetings -

My doctor and I are trying to find a lens that will help my red / green problem.  We tried having one of my contacts tinted but the company he used couldnt tint dark enough and I ended up with a light rose lens.  What I need according to the the colored lenses he tested my eyes with is a darker red tint over the pupil.

He wasnt familiar with x-chrome lenses and Ive not been able to find the manuf. on the net or even where they can be ordered from. 

Any info you could lend or pass along would be greatly appreciated so that I can fill him in on what I discovered.  

Thanks
S

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## SarahMP584

My husband has gone through all the same problems with the US military. When He enlisted 6 years ago, They still used the FALANT lantern test, and he passed that with no problem. For his new assignment in the Air National Guard, he recently had to do a flight physical, in which he Failed the color test using the Devorne series of pcp's. I had tested him myself at my office with Ishihara's AND the D-15 which he passed WITH NO MISSES! 
We took him to the nearby Air Force Base and had him take these tests officially and he passed them there too. 
He swears he isnt Color blind in the least, but I can see that sometimes when I call something Red he calls it Brown. And his maternal Grandfather was CB. 

Needless to say, I have read up a lot on Color blindness, and talked to my associate doctors.
If my husband had failed that test again, he never would have been able to Fly, he wouldnt even be able to WORK on planes again. 

A ChromaGen Lens is a good choice, but the Air Force wouldnt allow it, because we looked into it. It may be differnt in Australia though!

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