# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  Has anyone tried IOT's new camber PAL

## rdcoach5

Our local lab is gearing up to release the new camber progressive that they call Visionary. Has anyone personally tried this ?It combines their digtal free-form back surface design that compares to anyones best design- with an aspheric front.

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## other_bill_fea

We've been selling it since the beginning of the year, and I've had plenty of positive response to the lens. The usual wow point is with the reading area. Since the front curve is better matched to the Rx, this tends to be the area that gets the most improvement with Camber.

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## sharpstick777

I have a pair on order soon, once I find a frame.  Will let you know at some point.

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## icmor

I'm currently wearing Camber FF.  It's a good lens, but I didn't get any "wow factor" with it.  We're still trying it out on other staff to get their opinions on it before we decide to sell it to our patients.

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## other_bill_fea

I think the thing to keep in mind for "wow factor" is what you were wearing before, and also depends on what your Rx is.

The major selling point of Camber is about the intermediate/reading being better, and being able to get a flatter lens for a high plus. So it's also about making the lenses more cosmetically appealing as well as better lens performance.

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## drk

I have it on a few patients and the response has been positive.  (How positive compared to other lenses?  How in the world would we know without some elaborate study?)

What you can say is that it is a very good lens.

My impression, FWIW, is that the other IOT designs are "OK", but this one is "very good".

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## Tito

What is the highest positive Rx  progressive lens you can make with Camber lens using their highest base curve in High index 1.67 .

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## Tito

What is the highest positive Rx progressive lens you can make with Camber lens using their highest base curve in High index 1.67 .

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## other_bill_fea

I'm not in front of the calculator to check, but it goes up to an 8 base in 167, so you should be able to get to a +8 or +9, but it could be slightly higher/lower depending on the rest of the Rx.

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## Tito

+8.00 Add3.00 ?

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## other_bill_fea

May work. If you want to PM me the whole RX and frame info I can run it through the calculator and let you know how it looks.

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## Uilleann

So...

...aren't all progressive designs aspheric anyway?  What else would make this design stand out?

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## ak47

> I'm currently wearing Camber FF.  It's a good lens, but I didn't get any "wow factor" with it.  We're still trying it out on other staff to get their opinions on it before we decide to sell it to our patients.


are you myopic or hyperopic?  what were you wearing previously?

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## rdcoach5

> So...
> 
> ...aren't all progressive designs aspheric anyway?  What else would make this design stand out?


This is atoric, and aspheric on the front side as well. No other lens does this and IOT and Younger have the patent.

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## Tito

I don't believe it has an aspheric torus geometry (Atoric) . It has a different kind of asphericity than the conventional simetrical radial asphericity lens  . This lens has a horizontal asphericity which increases from top to bottom ,meaning to say it is flatter on the top and steeper on the bottom.

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## rdcoach5

You're right, the front surface is aspheric, not atoric.
http://www.camberlens.com/front_surface_innovation.aspx

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## Tito

After speaking to a Younger rep I was disapointed to learn that on progressive lenses even using the highest index material you can onely go up to +6.75 Dpts.

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## Tito

There are other very similar lenses as the Camber lens ; the Resona from Tokai /Japan and I've seen another that has a radial simetrical asphericity ,being flatter at the geometrical center and steeper towards the periphery of the whole lens .

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## hyperoptic

> After speaking to a Younger rep I was disapointed to learn that on progressive lenses even using the highest index material you can onely go up to +6.75 Dpts.


I think there may be some miscommunication.  powers above 6.75 are possible.  It is dependent on base curve selection.

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## Craig

I just got a pair and am wearing them now but my add is only a +1.75 and it is definitely a different feeling when putting them on the first time.  I wear mostly IOT trivex in the middle compensation version and this is different?  I am feeling like they are better for the computer and reading (slightly) but the distance is fine.  They are not compensated much but the total add power is slightly higher than the prescribed RX which is already different than the other compensated lenses.
We are ordering them for my staff who are all over +2.50 add's and see what they say.

It is not a radical game changer but should help with the high adds (2.50+) and cyl over 2D as long as the compensation is kept to a minimum.  IOT has done a good job so I look forward to this product being helpful but I still do not know what the up charge is so we will see how we can fit in our lens system.

We do not offer any choices (I pick all lenses for orders with my lab guy) so we would need to just give it to anyone with certain parameters once we determine who gets the real optical benefits from this technology.

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## Tito

> I think there may be some miscommunication.  powers above 6.75 are possible.  It is dependent on base curve selection.


In your experience what is the highest power you can reach in the highest base curve for a progressive Lens?

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## hyperoptic

Well in digital SV fronts the power is limited to the front base curve and the cumulative plus power so a cumulative plus power (distance +add) of 12.00 to 14.00 depending on whats available to you as far as lenses.

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## Tito

> Well in digital SV fronts the power is limited to the front base curve and the cumulative plus power so a cumulative plus power (distance +add) of 12.00 to 14.00 depending on whats available to you as far as lenses.


On Younger web page under Camber lens technical specifications the highest base curve in 1.67 index  is an 8 base ,with an actual surface convertion power it gives you  9.98Dpts .I understand that this would be within the central portion of the lens and that you have 2 Dpts extra down below,that's almost 12.00 Dpts. 

I also know that for a back side  free form lens you need to add Far and near plus an extra margin in orden to avoid a completely flat near portion .

So if the above analisys is correct the highest power that can be reached is +12.00 Dpts summing up far + near + extra margin.

example +7.50 Add +3.00 

please advice.

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## hyperoptic

> On Younger web page under Camber lens technical specifications the highest base curve in 1.67 index  is an 8 base ,with an actual surface convertion power it gives you  9.98Dpts .I understand that this would be within the central portion of the lens and that you have 2 Dpts extra down below,that's almost 12.00 Dpts. 
> 
> I also know that for a back side  free form lens you need to add Far and near plus an extra margin in orden to avoid a completely flat near portion .
> 
> So if the above analisys is correct the highest power that can be reached is +12.00 Dpts summing up far + near + extra margin.
> 
> example +7.50 Add +3.00 
> 
> please advice.


I would have to run a test calculaton to confirm this, but I believe you are correct.  I am going to run some tests and I will get back with you.

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## Craig

Anyone using this lens?

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## ak47

> Anyone using this lens?


Only a handful so far (all hyperopes), but very good response thus far.

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## icmor

> I'm currently wearing Camber FF.  It's a good lens, but I didn't get any "wow factor" with it.  We're still trying it out on other staff to get their opinions on it before we decide to sell it to our patients.


I've now been wearing the Camber lenses for several months and recently gotten a 2nd pair of them.  Although I originally stated that I didn't notice any "wow" factors in wearing them, I have to admit, I find myself preferring to put on the camber lenses over my numerous other types of freeform progressives.  They are just more comfortable to wear.  I admit this is not a technical review, but Cambers are good lenses in my opinion.

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## Tito

> I've now been wearing the Camber lenses for several months and recently gotten a 2nd pair of them.  Although I originally stated that I didn't notice any "wow" factors in wearing them, I have to admit, I find myself preferring to put on the camber lenses over my numerous other types of freeform progressives.  They are just more comfortable to wear.  I admit this is not a technical review, but Cambers are good lenses in my opinion.


What is your prescription?

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## Craig

> I just got a pair and am wearing them now but my add is only a +1.75 and it is definitely a different feeling when putting them on the first time.  I wear mostly IOT trivex in the middle compensation version and this is different?  I am feeling like they are better for the computer and reading (slightly) but the distance is fine.  They are not compensated much but the total add power is slightly higher than the prescribed RX which is already different than the other compensated lenses.
> We are ordering them for my staff who are all over +2.50 add's and see what they say.
> 
> It is not a radical game changer but should help with the high adds (2.50+) and cyl over 2D as long as the compensation is kept to a minimum.  IOT has done a good job so I look forward to this product being helpful but I still do not know what the up charge is so we will see how we can fit in our lens system.
> 
> We do not offer any choices (I pick all lenses for orders with my lab guy) so we would need to just give it to anyone with certain parameters once we determine who gets the real optical benefits from this technology.


We got a second pair in for another employee and he loves them.  The lens is better in all focal lengths as compared the Zeiss Individual and another IOT lens.  It is now my lens of choice.

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## icmor

> What is your prescription?


Sorry for the delay; I went on vacation after my last post.  My Rx is: OD pl + .75 X 073, OS -1.25 + .50 X 025 w/ 2.50 add.  (OS is post traumatic cataract surgery) V/A is 20/15 OU.

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## Jason H

I'm not sure how Camber would benefit even hyperopes. But it does open up add power possibilities. we have done +4.50 adds. The practicality of such a thing is dubious but there is a demand for it.

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## tx11

Can you file VSP on the camber lens? if so...how

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## EyeCare Rich

Isn't the VSP PLXpression a lens with Camber technology????  Sure sounds like it.

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## drk

It is.

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## EyeCare Rich

Guess that answers Tx11's question. 

 I'm actually wearing a pair right now, and they are not bad.  I still like my Individual 2 better though.  I only have a 1.25 add, but a -3.00 cyl on both eyes.  The reading area might be just a slight bit bigger, but when you get to the edge of the corridor, it is much more noticable than either my Ind.2, or my Autograph 3's.

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## Craig

> Guess that answers Tx11's question. 
> 
>  I'm actually wearing a pair right now, and they are not bad.  I still like my Individual 2 better though.  I only have a 1.25 add, but a -3.00 cyl on both eyes.  The reading area might be just a slight bit bigger, but when you get to the edge of the corridor, it is much more noticable than either my Ind.2, or my Autograph 3's.


I have them in a 1.75 add and my other employee just got his with a 2.25; we are both blown away by the smooth intermediate and near.  It is now our lens of choice for clear.  The lab did just surface them upside down; so we have some work to do.

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## tx11

> Isn't the VSP PLXpression a lens with Camber technology????  Sure sounds like it.


SO...is it now a branded lens? Are the charge backs the same as if you ordered any of the  (big guys)"N" level custom PALs?

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## Tallboy

> SO...is it now a branded lens? Are the charge backs the same as if you ordered any of the  (big guys)"N" level custom PALs?


Yes. Its as branded as any other "labs" house lens.  Its still the Camber blank though, the Younger symbol is very noticeable.

It is a great lens.
The charge backs are the same as any other lens, thats how VSP works... there are catagories, some of which can seem rather arbitrary.

There are certain Unity "savings" programs you can get kick backs for combining Unity AR and one of their lenses, but if you take VSP don't you get bombarded with the same amount of brochures and stuff as me? Maybe you just send it to the circular floor file  :Wink: 

Anyway its a great lens.

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