# Conversation and Fun > Just Conversation >  "Girlie Men" Spank Terminator

## walt

If they dont have the guts to come up here in front of you and say, I dont want to represent you, I want to represent those special interests, the unions, the trial lawyers ... if they dont have the guts, I call them girlie men, :p Schwarzenegger said to the cheering crowd at a mall food court in Ontario.

"Thats very troubling that he would use such a homophobic way of trying to put down legislative leadership, said Kuehl, one of five members of the Legislatures five-member Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Caucus.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5460326?GT1=4244

Maybe Arnie should have said "girlie persons"?  :Cool:

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## For-Life

People are bashing him for it without realizing it was one of his catch phrases back in the day.  Just the usual people blowing it out of proportion.

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## hcjilson

It wasn't one of his catch phrases....it was Dana Carvey's on Saturday Night Live! hj

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## mrba

> It wasn't one of his catch phrases....it was Dana Carvey's on Saturday Night Live! hj


It was Dana Carvey comparing himself to Arnold in a skit, And Arnold who happened to make guest appearances in the skits.

I think he can lay claim safely...And perhaps its a stereotype, but we all knew what he was trying to say, and it had nothing to do with intentionally slandering anyone.  And, I suppose he could have not even tried to be funny, which is more of what we need.

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## For-Life

> It wasn't one of his catch phrases....it was Dana Carvey's on Saturday Night Live! hj


I guess you are right, but it still basically works out the same.

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## rep

What was the make up of that Caucus?

1- Gay Male
1- Gay Female
2- Bisexuals 1 Male and 1 Female
1 - Transgender - Male? - Female? - In between transition?

How can you have an equal representation?

Inquiring minds want to know?

Rep

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## walt

> What was the make up of that Caucus?
> 
> 1- Gay Male
> 1- Gay Female
> 2- Bisexuals 1 Male and 1 Female
> 1 - Transgender - Male? - Female? - In between transition?
> 
> How can you have an equal representation?
> 
> ...


Just imagine trying to get a "jury of your peers"!!! :D

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## mrba

In the local news out here, those 5 members got more news time than Arnold or any other member of the state legeslature.


Those 5 must speak for all of us... At least they speak for the annual ballots found floating in SF bay:hammer:

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## Steve Machol

It was a stupid joke that the Governor of a state should have had better sense than to tell.  He should apologize - particularly to women.  However it's also not a major issue and does not deserve the level of outrage and publicity it's getting.  As For-Life said, it's being blown out of proportion.

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## mrba

Are there any women here who think that in resonse to Arnold, instead of getting mad, they should be big girls and "pull up their big girl panties"?:) 

Why is everyone so wounded these days?  SHould SNL apologize for making the joke in the first place?  Should everyone who lauphed apaolgize.  Should such "hate" be censored.  Does anyone feel hated by the govenator?

Does anyone really care? :Confused:

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## karen

> He should apologize - particularly to women.


 Why is that???

Almost went to that rally-it was about 10 minutes from my house

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## Steve Machol

> Why is that???
> 
> Almost went to that rally-it was about 10 minutes from my house


 It's my opinion that this comment was offensive to women in general.  I also said this was being blown out of proportion. :)

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## chip anderson

Who said Arnold was jokeing?

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## Steve Machol

You're right.  Maybe he wasn't joking.  Maybe he really does consider females and femininity as undesirable traits.  Good point! ;)

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## mrba

> You're right. Maybe he wasn't joking. Maybe he really does consider females and femininity as undesirable traits. Good point! ;)


And you got all that from him saying "Girlie-mon"?... Since you are obviously serious, I will analyze this ad nausium for you.

Girlie-mon: A man that is Girlie. A feminine man.  Perhaps more women aren't offended because the comment was directed at particular men who were not exibiting the courage to get the job done...  Perhaps it is not insulting to women that there are men that aren't different then them.  Maybe it is that simple.  

Maybe it is OK to be feminine when you are a woman, and hence Arnold wasn't insulting women!!!

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## Steve Machol

Ahhh, then maybe I misunderstood. Please explain exactly what he meant by 'girlie men'. I'd be particularly interested in which characteristics of 'girls' you and he find demeaning enough to make this a suitable adjective for an insult.

Edit: I see you edited your original post to add more information.  I'd still be interested in an answer to my question though.

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## mrba

For some, men aren't supposed to be girlie!!!

I'm sure there are enouph idealists here to point out societal norms, the problem with my narrow point of view, etc etc etc.

But the the fact remains, most people including many women, lauphed at the JOKE.  What more do you need to know?

I suppose women with a sense of humor just aren't liberated enouph, and their oppression (to which they are ignorant of) goes on and on. :cry:

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## Steve Machol

You still haven't explained why you think being called a 'girl' is an insult. What in particular do you find demeaning about this? 

Clearly you have some issues with the entire thought of being called 'girlie'. What are these issues? Or is this between you and your therapist. :D

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## mrba

> You still haven't explained why you think being called a 'girl' is an insult. What in particular do you find demeaning about this?


I went back and re-read what I wrote, and I don't think I was really getting at why I would be insulted by being called a girlie-man. The closest thing I said was "For some, men aren't supposed to be girlie!!!"
 I'll let that statement stand as is...

I'm sure Walt will have a wonderful point of view of your obsession with the dynamics of insults in the morning... 




> Clearly you have some issues with the entire thought of being called 'girlie'. What are these issues? Or is this between you and your therapist. :D


Steve, for now I will keep your little secret between me and my Therapist!:D

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## chip anderson

Steve:  

Arnie was trying to convey a very polite way of saying they  were "Queer or efeminate" in a state where each term would elicite more of a respone than you have had.   And no most of us do not concider either group of characteristics to be the best that one of the male gender can exibit.


Now is this clear enough.  Of course Arnie is in California where some appearently do appreciated such charactheristics in "men".

Chip

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## karen

As a female, I was not the least bit offended by his remark.  And to be honest, not sure why any female would be.  
Chip, I agree with you and prefer my men to be "manly men" (which is the opposite of "girlie men")  Unfortunately this state has gotten very PC.  I think the people that were most offended were either homosexual or transgender (oh, and the Democrats  ;) )

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## walt

> You're right. Maybe he wasn't joking. Maybe he really does consider females and femininity as undesirable traits. Good point! ;)


Quite possibly, when these "traits" are found in males. But more seriously, unlike many of these posts, Arnie really does have quite a developed sense of humor. :p

Of course, those seeking the moral high ground will always find ways to twist a pun into a bitter debate if it suits their cause.

"Mommy! Mommy! Arnie just called me a girlie-boy!" :hammer:

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## Jana Lewis

> Steve: 
> 
> Arnie was trying to convey a very polite way of saying they were "Queer or efeminate" in a state where each term would elicite more of a respone than you have had. And no most of us do not concider either group of characteristics to be the best that one of the male gender can exibit.
> 
> 
> Now is this clear enough. Of course Arnie is in California where some appearently do appreciated such charactheristics in "men".
> 
> Chip


Hardly polite.....

When you are in public office, you need to watch your p's and q's. This was HIGHLY unprofessional conduct. Kinda like pulling a Cheny.

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## mrba

> Kinda like pulling a Cheny.


But not even close to pulling a Kerry.

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## Jana Lewis

> But not even close to pulling a Kerry.


Hmmm.... I don't recall Kerry using any profane language in public..... can you enlighten me?

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## mrba

> Hmmm.... I don't recall Kerry using any profane language in public..... can you enlighten me?


I was referring to the Rolling Stone interview... Quite possibly where the term "F Bomb" originated.  At least that was the first time I ever heard it called that in the press... He said F a lot among other words.  Reminicent of George Carlin...

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## chip anderson

Jana: 

 Trust me he did and was widely quoted, saying virtually the same thing or at least the same words as Cheney. And no, you don't really want me to quote this here.

Chip

In each of their defense, regardless of their public posture most men will launch into the vernacular when highly provoked. As to plain language, it sometimes is more appropriate. Teddy Roosevelt once told Kaiser Wilhelm: "Army, Hell! Bring um on, we'll whip them before breakfast." 

No one attacked the U.S. while Teddy was president. Everyone knew exactly what would happen.

Steve:

I don't think Arnold has anything against women (at least from is reported misconduct at parties, he seems to like them. Which may be unusual as most body builders are either in love with themselves or their own gender). He just doesn't appreciate feminine characteristics in men. He probably doesn't appreciate masculine characteristics in women either.

Chip

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## mrba

> Which may be unusual as most body builders are either in love with themselves or their own gender).


Chip,
I had to lauph.  An old timer once told me that.  I am not a body builder per se, but I lift weights to stay in shape.  It would be my take that young men my generation, may very well be into themselves, but I would guess most at the gym are not into their own Gender!!!:D :bbg: :)

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## Spexvet

> If they dont have the guts to come up here in front of you and say, I dont want to represent you, I want to represent those special interests, the unions, the trial lawyers ... if they dont have the guts, I call them *girlie men*, :p Schwarzenegger said to the cheering crowd at a mall food court in Ontario.
> 
> 
> Maybe Arnie should have said "girlie persons"?


Arnie is equating lack of guts with femininity. I wonder if he would get agreement from those *butchie-women* Libby Dole, Christie Whitman, Condalisa Rice, and Margaret Thatcher, who obviously have man-type guts.

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## walt

> Arnie is equating lack of guts with femininity. I wonder if he would get agreement from those *butchie-women* Libby Dole, Christie Whitman, Condalisa Rice, and Margaret Thatcher, who obviously have man-type guts.


Great question. Lets ask Janet Reno, author of the best-selling "Ruby Ridge" and "Waco" how it would handle this situation.  :Cool:

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## chm2023

For what it's worth, the use of a term like "girlie-man" is demeaning, albeit in a very subtle way, to women. Take this test: would you rather your son be a sissy or your daugther be a tom boy. The answer is obvious. Why are female traits so undesireable in a boy, yet male traits are "cute" in a girl? What does this say about what we value? Just food for thought.

And as to Chip's comment:

"Teddy Roosevelt once told Kaiser Wilhelm: "Army, Hell! Bring um on, we'll whip them before breakfast." 

No one attacked the U.S. while Teddy was president. Everyone knew exactly what would happen.'

Obviously there's a biiiiigggg difference between a very distinguished warrior and the current "girlie-man" in the White House.  (Hey, I think I could grow to like this!!)

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## karen

> Arnie is equating lack of guts with femininity. I wonder if he would get agreement from those *butchie-women* Libby Dole, Christie Whitman, Condalisa Rice, and Margaret Thatcher, who obviously have man-type guts.


I'll bet those ladies would take being called "butchie women" like a man (although they might prefer "women of strength")  
At the risk of sounding like I am from the wrong era-I thinks there are some things men are inherently better at and some things women are inherently better at.  I think men are better at standing in the trenches and shooting at the bad guys and I think women are better at running an entire household efficiently while doing lots of things at the same time.  I don't think Arnie is so much equating lack of guts with femininty as he is using a catch phrase that most of us remember and can relate to to stir things up.  He is married to an awfully strong woman who still comes across as plenty feminine so I think he understands the concept.

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## mrba

There is no doubt in my mind, Karen is a "good woman".  And that is a compliment.

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