# Conversation and Fun > Just Conversation >  Reducing the deficit

## Spexvet

Interesting, from New York Times columnist David Leonhardt. 

Quote:
So here's a little rule: If you want to be taken seriously when you rail against the deficit, you need to support one of the following four policies. Better yet, support more than one.

Ready for the four? One, cuts to Medicare. Two, cuts to Social Security. Three, military cuts. Four, tax increases. Any budget expert will tell you that we simply cannot fix the deficit without doing at least one of those four. 
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/d...r-the-deficit/

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## Jacqui

Cut the military :)

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## Jacqui

From Twitter:

"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich." ~ John F Kennedy

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## For-Life

> Interesting, from New York Times columnist David Leonhardt. 
> 
> Quote:
> So here's a little rule: If you want to be taken seriously when you rail against the deficit, you need to support one of the following four policies. Better yet, support more than one.
> 
> Ready for the four? One, cuts to Medicare. Two, cuts to Social Security. Three, military cuts. Four, tax increases. Any budget expert will tell you that we simply cannot fix the deficit without doing at least one of those four. 
> http://marketplace.publicradio.org/d...r-the-deficit/


Do them all.  The government needs an increase revenues and lower spending.  Now, it does not all need to happen at once.  Doing it all tomorrow will shock the economy and it will never recover.  So at a bare minimum, I suggest the following:

- Repeal the Bush tax cuts ($250,00+ today.  If you want, you can delay the rest of them by 2012).
- Bring in Rae days.  10 days off, unpaid to all government employees for the next two years.  This will be able to save money without laying people off.  We have to remember that cutting government services = cutting jobs = higher unemployment rates
- Freeze on all public sector pay increases
- A 5% rollback of all expenses for all politicians.  It is silly when Obama is recarpeting the White House and people are unemployed.  While this will not fix things, it is symbolic that the politicians are doing what is right for the people.

By doing this, you will not balance the budget, but you will reduce the impact with the lastest spending/lack of taxes.

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## Uncle Fester

What about corporations profits? It seems to me a huge amount of taxes have been shifted onto the backs of workers that's been lowering the standard of living for millions of middle class workers since Reagan.

And what about a tax on stock trades?

Unfortunately Republicans have so vilified anything other than pure capitalism that Marx was absolutely right when he said if you give a capitalist enough rope he'll eventually hang himself! Just ask China!!

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## JG43

Yeah it is the republicans fault! hahaha Nice try!

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## Geirskogul

Well, it's the Republican's fault that the Tea Party exists, so they can't really say they didn't do anything.  You spawn a monster as horrendous as that and I don't have to believe anything you say for the next 40 years or so.

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## JG43

No monster in the tea party, just ordinary Americans like myself of the liberal lies and those that do not represent the people or the constitution. The Republicans play a small part on the tea party movement it is Obama anti american policies he and Polosi and Co are forcing on us.

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## For-Life

> No monster in the tea party, just ordinary Americans like myself of the liberal lies and those that do not represent the people or the constitution. The Republicans play a small part on the tea party movement it is Obama anti american policies he and Polosi and Co are forcing on us.


Can you please be specific.  You said it is not the Republicans to blame for the debt.  Can you mention why the debt increased so much during Reagan and W. Bush?

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## JG43

I never said the Republicans hands are clean of any wrong doing! I just find it amusing that liberals/socialist/marxist and that bottom of the barrel thinking are so blind by their stupidity that they blame everything on hahah, Reagan, and Bush even "big" companies! Look at the current occupant in the White House and look what he has done to the budget, they have full power in the House and Senate yet they keep spending on social programs that are broken and have and never will work because it takes responsibility from the individual and makes them dependant on the government and once someone is dependant on the government they will never come off which bleeds the system and drives the budgets even further into the red!

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## For-Life

> I never said the Republicans hands are clean of any wrong doing! I just find it amusing that liberals/socialist/marxist and that bottom of the barrel thinking are so blind by their stupidity that they blame everything on hahah, Reagan, and Bush even "big" companies! Look at the current occupant in the White House and look what he has done to the budget, they have full power in the House and Senate yet they keep spending on social programs that are broken and have and never will work because it takes responsibility from the individual and makes them dependant on the government and once someone is dependant on the government they will never come off which bleeds the system and drives the budgets even further into the red!


I do agree that the current Dems have done a horrible job. But with this upcoming election, what has the Republican Party put forth to make you think it is going to change?

Right now, the GOP, including the Tea Party, is still pushing on tax decreases, and that is part of the issue. There is not enough revenues coming in and there are too many expenses. The GOP solution will only increase the deficit more.

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## JG43

The folks I have been hearing have been talking about decreasing spending AND decreasing taxes! This is basic economics, when you lower taxes people will spend more of their money, they will invest in new companies which in turn will produce more employment thus creating more tax payers!! which in the long run will bring in MORE money to the government! Liberals like to do the opposite bleed everyone now and put them on Government assistance!! 

The GOP needs to get back to their base and the Tea Party is trying to convey that message at least that is what I am hearing from Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh Sarah Palin, Sen. Boehner, Marcio Rubio, and many others I listen too! the Gop is not the answer nor a new political party but the answer is getting back to the basic principles and cutting spending and lowering the tax burden on the those that are hard working Americans and putting the responsibility back into the hands of those who are too lazy to work and live off the backs of those who do and pay taxes.

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## Spexvet

> Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh Sarah Palin, Sen. Boehner, Marcio Rubio, and many others I listen too!


That's your problem. 

Why not listen to non-partisan, educated people whose interest is a better U.S.?

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## Spexvet

> The folks I have been hearing have been talking about decreasing spending AND decreasing taxes! This is basic economics, when you lower taxes people will spend more of their money, they will invest in new companies which in turn will produce more employment thus creating more tax payers!! which in the long run will bring in MORE money to the government!


Reality: In the 90s, taxes were higher and the economy was better. 




> Liberals like to do the opposite bleed everyone now and put them on Government assistance!!


Wealthy conservatives like to keep all the money for themselves and pay workers slave wages. Non-wealthy conservatives, therefore, are foolish.

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## DragonLensmanWV

The opinions expressed by Tea Party members do not represent the opinions of the owners of Optiboard or any of it's subsidiaries or of any person with adequate reasoning powers or any sane rational person.


I remember when the Tea Party formed, you would hear the same old propaganda like "We're not just Republicans, we're formed from people of every party and affiliations" Then you just watch. Have you EVER seen ANY Tea Party member say ANYTHING good about ANY Democrat? I sure haven't.
The good thing is, they have now gotten so radically extreme-right that their candidates are unelectable because they're hypocritical in what they say compared to what they do. And they appear to hate the Constitution because they want to change it.

How are you going to decrease spending and make Gov't smaller? By firing workers. That'll sure help the unemployment!

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## Spexvet

> No monster in the tea party, just ordinary Americans like myself


Are you a witch?
[youtube]zrzMhU_4m-g[/youtube]

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## For-Life

> The folks I have been hearing have been talking about decreasing spending AND decreasing taxes! This is basic economics, when you lower taxes people will spend more of their money, they will invest in new companies which in turn will produce more employment thus creating more tax payers!! which in the long run will bring in MORE money to the government! Liberals like to do the opposite bleed everyone now and put them on Government assistance!! 
> 
> The GOP needs to get back to their base and the Tea Party is trying to convey that message at least that is what I am hearing from Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh Sarah Palin, Sen. Boehner, Marcio Rubio, and many others I listen too! the Gop is not the answer nor a new political party but the answer is getting back to the basic principles and cutting spending and lowering the tax burden on the those that are hard working Americans and putting the responsibility back into the hands of those who are too lazy to work and live off the backs of those who do and pay taxes.


Basic economics also says that when you increase spending, people will have more money in their pockets, demand more products, which means companies have to hire more, thus creating more taxpayers!! which in the long run will bring in MORE money to the government!  

Bush tried the tax cuts in the 2000s, Reagan tried it in the 80s.  It just created more deficit.


So clearly, the Tea Party's strategy will just create more deficit, and thus more debt.

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## DragonLensmanWV

> The folks I have been hearing have been talking about decreasing spending AND decreasing taxes! This is basic economics, when you lower taxes people will spend more of their money, they will invest in new companies which in turn will produce more employment thus creating more tax payers!! which in the long run will bring in MORE money to the government! Liberals like to do the opposite bleed everyone now and put them on Government assistance!! 
> 
> The GOP needs to get back to their base and the Tea Party is trying to convey that message at least that is what I am hearing from Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh Sarah Palin, Sen. Boehner, Marcio Rubio, and many others I listen too! the Gop is not the answer nor a new political party but the answer is getting back to the basic principles and cutting spending and lowering the tax burden on the those that are hard working Americans and putting the responsibility back into the hands of those who are too lazy to work and live off the backs of those who do and pay taxes.



Please, please for your own edification, try listening to something other than propaganda from those blowhards.
And let me ask you, why in the world are you so taken with Palin?
And please, learn to spell your enemies correctly.
And remember: Limbaugh, Beck, Palin, etc. are just the mirror images of Sharpton, Jackson and Waxman, so even us centrist Democrats (try finding any centrist Repubs) view them with the same distaste you do for your political rivals.
I do think the Tea Party is in for a surprise this election.

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## JG43

I listen to the issues and I do hear both sides, the most logical answers which have been tried are coming from these people you seem to have a problem with!

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## JG43

So you would like to go back to th 90's tax rate in this economy? times have changed and we have gone backwards and our economy is the worst it has been since the depression, higher taxes will snuff out any life remaining in the economy and damage any hope for recovery! 

Your ignorant statement about wealthy conservatives amuse me! and wealthy liberals just want everyone to live in peace and happiness?? You have a warped view of conservatives I know a few wealthy conservatives and they are the kindest people you will ever meet. they expect people to work for a living just as they have done! nothing wrong with that!

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## JG43

to heal you have to scrub a wound, their is so much waste in DC and I am not just talking about what is coming out of the politicians mouths, you see the health benefits they get? or any other government worker? why is it they want US to be forced into government health care when they are not on it themsleves? yeah, we could cut a lot of cost off salaries and benefits from congress!

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## Uncle Fester

I find it so frustrating that after catching robbers in the vault so many can be lied to that the best thing to do is give them back the keys to the bank.

But the country is so closely politically divided that you only need to fool some of the people most of the time.

If we truly want representative government we should ALL back limited public financing of elections. The representative would then be free to truly represent the majority in their district/state and not be influenced by those who are now paying big money to make their reelection a virtual shoo in. 

JG33 did you know that there are an average of 26 registered lobbyists for each congressman on Capital Hill? Also if you took every deadbeat welfare recipient off the dole you still would barely dent the deficit we face but it's easy to scapegoat.

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## Uncle Fester

> to heal you have to scrub a wound, their is so much waste in DC ...


Not sure I'd want to scrub every type of wound but regarding waste in DC- Could it be big companies get by far the most of our tax dollars through "corporate" welfare?

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## JG43

Blowhards? hahaha... and I should listen to liberal propoganda? LOL, it is the liberals who try to remove God from everything and have no clue what this nation was founded on why should I listen to them? they deny basic truths! I hate to think of the surprise of the Liberals and socialist if the Tea Party and GOP do not stop Obama and his socialist agenda this Nov. It is not a game!

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## Uncle Fester

> Blowhards? hahaha... and I should listen to liberal propoganda? LOL, it is the liberals who try to remove God from everything and have no clue what this nation was founded on why should I listen to them? they deny basic truths! I hate to think of the surprise of the Liberals and socialist if the Tea Party and GOP do not stop Obama and his socialist agenda this Nov. It is not a game!


 Chip's back!!! :)

Or is he a Chip off the old block?

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## finefocus

I've been on vacation, so I didn't get a chance to have a nightly exposure to non-reality-based TV "news" reporting. I've read a few posts in this thread, and now feel all caught up on vituperation; I feel like a real American again. Thanks.

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## Uncle Fester

> The Conservatives are more right wing, but still embrace Universal Health Insurance...


Our right wing also embraces universal health care even if they sometimes get confused when they protest to keep government out of health care yet run ads about how Dem's are going to cut Medicare.

Great quote from yesterday by Gov. Deval Patrick of Massachusetts on NPR "It's as old as the scriptures- Take an anxious public, whip them into anger, and ride it to election". This works for either party.

PS MC future reference it's toe the line.

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## MasterCrafter

> Our right wing also embraces universal health care even if they sometimes get confused when they protest to keep government out of health care yet run ads about how Dem's are going to cut Medicare.
> 
> Great quote from yesterday by Gov. Deval Patrick of Massachusetts on NPR "It's as old as the scriptures- Take an anxious public, whip them into anger, and ride it to election". This works for either party.
> 
> PS MC future reference it's toe the line.


Yea, a perfect example of this is what Obama did in the 2008 election. So like you said.. both party's do it. Now it is the Dem's turn to get that tactic used on them.
Not a good feeling is it?

BTW... i am not an English major... so i do not care about using proper English all the time.

I am not as sophisticated as you intellectual elite libs. I live in fly over country. What do you expect?

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## Uncle Fester

> Yea, a perfect example of this is what Obama did in the 2008 election. So like you said.. both party's do it. Now it is the Dem's turn to get that tactic used on them.
> Not a good feeling is it?


But when Bush pleaded with the Dem's to bail out the banks the Democratic Congress did what was best for the country and voted for TARP only to have it used against them now.

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## MasterCrafter

> But when Bush pleaded with the Dem's to bail out the banks the Democratic Congress did what was best for the country and voted for TARP only to have it used against them now.


Bush was an idiot for doing that. McCain as well !!

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## For-Life

Let's make sure proper regulations are in place to ensure that the question of banks being bailed out never happens again.

In the past 100 years, only two Canadian banks closed.  Both were in Alberta in the 1980s.  The same year they closed, 200 American banks closed.  

Clearly, being deregulated is not working for this sector.

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## Uncle Fester

> Let's make sure proper regulations are in place to ensure that the question of banks being bailed out never happens again.


 Too late...

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/05/21/b...loopholes.html

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## MasterCrafter

What about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? Looks like tax payers are going to be on the hook for $363 billion over the next 3 years. What could be done to regulate this BS? I mean they were the cause of the subprime mortgage mess.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/oct...louts-20101022

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## For-Life

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac used to be well regulated.  But those regulations were removed.

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## For-Life

You have to watch the CNBC special "House of Cards."

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## MasterCrafter

> You have to watch the CNBC special "House of Cards."


I dont think that Special really covers the real reasons. Now i admit i did not watch it. So if they did mention these I apologize in advance.

But i did read 2 reviews and it says they do not mention the following:

*The New Deal*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal
This is where it all began. FDR... the great Progressive/Liberal. 
This was pure American made Bureaucracy

*The Great Society*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Society
LBJ, what an all around fool. I mean Vietnam, oh and signing this piece of trash. 

They declared a "War on Poverty" How much money have they spent on this since? Are the inner city's any better today?

*Community Reinvestment Act*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act
Then we have Jimma, He forced banks to loan to people who could not afford to pay their loans back. I mean i dont care what color your skin is, if you cant pay the loan, you do not own!!

*NAFTA*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nafta
Big Bill broke my heart by signing this. The US manufacturing sector has lost 3.6 million jobs since it has been signed. 
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor 

*The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act
Clinton signed this too. I cant tell what this thing does but Obama claims this caused alot of things that went wrong today. It looks like a Democratic President and 3 RINO Republicans did something here Obama didnt like.

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## For-Life

The biggest rise in House of Cards was the repeal of the Glass Stegall act.  You can see that as soon as the act was repealed, housing prices soared.  Of course, idiot consumers were a big cause, but we know that there are idiot consumers and should have anticipated it.

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## MasterCrafter

> The biggest rise in House of Cards was the repeal of the Glass Stegall act. You can see that as soon as the act was repealed, housing prices soared. Of course, idiot consumers were a big cause, but we know that there are idiot consumers and should have anticipated it.


Yea that repeal of the glass stegall act was in the last one on my list. Bill Clinton signed that into law.

*The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act

It seems a Democrat started that mess.. not Bush?

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## Judy Canty

----------------------------------------
Breaking News Alert: U.S. GDP grew at 2% annual rate in 3Q 
October 29, 2010 8:48:08 AM
----------------------------------------

Economic growth accelerated a bit late this summer, according to new government data, even as the nation remained stuck in a pattern of economic expansion that is too slow to bring down joblessness.

Gross domestic product expanded at a 2 percent annual rate in the July through September quarter, the Commerce Department said Friday, matching economists’ forecasts. That was a slight improvement from the 1.7 percent growth rate of the second quarter and the fifth straight quarter of expansion. 


http://link.email.washingtonpost.com...XV6/AR1ZQ/FW/h

For more information, visit washingtonpost.com

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## For-Life

> Yea that repeal of the glass stegall act was in the last one on my list. Bill Clinton signed that into law.
> 
> *The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act*
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act
> 
> It seems a Democrat started that mess.. not Bush?


Yep, Clinton is definitely to blame for that.  Along with the Republican House and Republican Senate, and any Democrats that voted for it.

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## DragonLensmanWV

I love this totally true cartoon.

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## MasterCrafter

> Yep, Clinton is definitely to blame for that. Along with the Republican House and Republican Senate, and any Democrats that voted for it.


A little off subject but,

You know how Obama keeps saying that 8 years of Republican rule has "driven us into a ditch" Actually it was 6 years with Bush and a Repub controlled house. The last 4 years it was the Democrats. The Dems have controlled the house since 2007. Now everyone should know it is the Congress that controls the PURSE. Plus Obama was a Senator for 2 years in this Congress, now 2 years as President. Thats 4 years Obama has been in on this.

So the Democrats controlled the Congress from 1949 to 1993. Thats was 44 years of Dems controlling the spending. Even Reagan had the Dems in power when he was President. 

Also alot of people give Clinton the credit for balancing the budget in the 90's. But wasnt that a Newt Gingrich controlled house?

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