# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  freeform progressive lens

## au

Hi all,

Except to all those big brands Essilor, Hoya, Zeiss and Rodenstock, 

Is their other suppliers will sell their freeform software/technology as white label to local labs?

So that these small local labs can produce their own freeform progressive lens as their own name?

All I know is only SEIKO and SHAMIR, is there other suppliers?

Thanks for any input!

:cheers:

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## OCP

> Hi all,
> 
> Except to all those big brands Essilor, Hoya, Zeiss and Rodenstock, 
> 
> Is their other suppliers will sell their freeform software/technology as white label to local labs?
> 
> So that these small local labs can produce their own freeform progressive lens as their own name?
> 
> All I know is only SEIKO and SHAMIR, is there other suppliers?
> ...


Why you need other supplier?
You got the best, Shamir.?

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## eyemanflying

> Hi all,
> 
> Except to all those big brands Essilor, Hoya, Zeiss and Rodenstock, 
> 
> Is their other suppliers will sell their freeform software/technology as white label to local labs?
> 
> So that these small local labs can produce their own freeform progressive lens as their own name?
> 
> All I know is only SEIKO and SHAMIR, is there other suppliers?
> ...


Don't waste your money on a Shamir license agreement.  Also, if you don't yet have the free form system installed in your lab, don't bother and save your million dollars.

It is simple...develop a private label program with a quality manufacturer.  Have them provide the uncuts to you for wholesale.

It is much more cost effective.

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## KStraker

Here's one for you: http://www.freeformopticallab.com/index.php
I'm not sure if they could be a supplier for you, or if they are doing the same thing you are trying to accomplish. Either way, they may be able to help.

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## Fezz

Info?

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## Jacqui

> Here's one for you: http://www.freeformopticallab.com/index.php
> I'm not sure if they could be a supplier for you, or if they are doing the same thing you are trying to accomplish. Either way, they may be able to help.


Sounds like the same thing I think he's talking about. There are "Generic" freeform software programs on the market that allow a lab to put their own label on the lenses. Crossbows and IOT are two, but I'm sure there are more. A DAC freeform system for about $250,000 and the software will give a small lab about 60 - 65 pr. per 8 hour day x $$ per pair. It makes sense for some labs to do this, but not all. 

Another idea is to have several smaller labs and/or retailers join forces and set this up for their private use. The cost would be minimal for each user and still give them access to the latest technology.

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## Georg Mayer

Optovision in Frankfurt / Germany, a subsidary of Rodenstock GmbH offers a FreeForm technology package to international partner labs which can be customised to a house brand. They also support installation, start-up and IT integration: www.optovision.com. 
However I feel the $ number for the FreeForm lab equipment mentioned in an earlier post is too low, in reality you could end up with double that number before you make the first lens. So it won't be in reach for very small labs, but a lab with a reasonable volume of high value jobs can make the numbers work, or as suggested get the volume through an coordinated effort of interested parties.
We have a booth at the OLA convention in December and can discuss various options with your supplier labs.

Georg Mayer
Rodenstock - Munich

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## Jacqui

Actually after doing my homework the price is about right (*USA* prices). It uses used equipment where possible except the generator and polisher. This does include software startup costs (pay-per-click after) and everything else I could dream of. It does not include lens blanks or operating capital. 

P.S. The website you posted doesn't have very much if anything for the US market.

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## au

I talk to a local lab, they told me their machine is from optotech, they buy the machine and the freeform software together like package, when the local lab introduce their freeform lens to me, sounds like SEIKO software, I want to understand more about the optotech and their freeform lens, when compare to SEIKO and SHAMIR, is there a huge difference ?

All I have the information is they also have 3 different corridors to choose, no information about design or anything just said the distortion is little,......:angry::hammer: :Confused: 

Thanks in advance for anyone can give me more information !

:cheers:

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## Fezz

> just said the distortion is little,......:angry::hammer:
> 
> 
> :cheers:


I bet they claimed the channels are wider too!!

;):cheers::cheers::cheers::D

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## Georg Mayer

Jacqui, you are right, based on DAC Vision hardware and some used equipment. Our calculations are based on new European equipment plus a surface scanner/verification tool which we think is crucial to the final quality of a FreeForm product, so we end up at a higher $.
You also rightfully noticed that Optovision.com has nothing particular for the US market on their webpage, that's why we will be coming to the OLA.
However we have set up Free Form labs not only in Europe but also in the Americas (South), Asia and Russia, so the system is prooven to work.

Best regards
Georg

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## Jacqui

George, sent you a PM on this

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## dombeys

There is a real alternative to existing branded FreeForm designs.  You can have your own unique FreeForm designs including progressives, office, anti-fatigue and single vision; create your brand names; decide your corridor width and length;  choose your own base curves; select any material; integrate with your existing lab management software and any FreeForm lab equipment; offer your choices of hard or soft designs; and change your own designs as market demands mature.  The designs are offered by Lens Design Corporation of Americas (LDCA) in partnership between I.O.T. and CC Systems.  Information will be available at Vision Expo West (Oct. 1st to 3rd) at booth LP3046 or the OLA (Dec. 4th-5th) at booth 428.

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## Barry Santini

With *any* FF progressive (or SV) lens design, branded or OEM, one never *exactly* knows in advance what the benefits, quality or client satisfaction and acceptance of the design will be.

Therefore: Caveat Emptor.

And...the above caution does NOT include questions regarding individual fabrication quality control of any specific set of lenses.

Double Caveat Emptor.

_And....._

_Both of the above do NOT include the human error factor,i.e., where all those POW and other values are (and have already) been_
miss-data entered at the lab level.

If you don't believe me, I've already received a pair of -10.75 FF progressives, where the reading_ distance_ (40CM) value was accidentally substituted for the _vertex distance value (13mm)_.

Result: a POW verification/compensation to a *-15.75 sphere!*

Of course, this error is obvious to catch, but other smaller errors or better, _deviations_, may not be, unless you "maintain vigilence at all times" (a tip of my hat to BTTF Part 2)

TRIPLE Caveat Emptor.

Barry

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## MichaelMueller

Look at the Optotech FF software,
They offer all kind of designs for a fixed price.

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## dombeys

Be careful when comparing Free Form lens suppliers.  Does the lens supplier offer complete integration with your LMS? Are there trained technicians available for onsite installation, training and ongoing support in your country? Are they offering a full range of designs including compensated power, individualized with frame measurements, lifestyle and viewing angles, single vision, office and lenticular designs?  Are their designs just Basic similar to a conventional progressive?  Are they willing to custom develop unique designs for for your lab?

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## MichaelMueller

FF Software follows an international VCA standard in connecting it to LMS. The individualized need of customized designs is also given at OT. Service and training is of course a must, you cannot leave the customer alone.

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## Jacqui

I didn't know that Optotech had thier own software. I need to check this out.

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## One science

> Here's one for you: http://www.freeformopticallab.com/index.php
> I'm not sure if they could be a supplier for you, or if they are doing the same thing you are trying to accomplish. Either way, they may be able to help.


Yes, it seems to do the same as Au. But it's useful to know how they developed.

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