# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  Costco Optical = busy................

## Chris Ryser

Dropped in at the local Costco this morning. The store was very quite, plenty parking which is un-usual.

On the way out I passed the optical department.....and surprise, There where 15 poeple waiting to be served, also very un-usual. I have never seen more than 2-3 customers there at any time.

The large fancy optical store a block away was totally empty of customers.

What makes Costco opticals tick these days ?

----------


## Jacqui

> What makes Costco opticals tick these days ?


The Economy

----------


## For-Life

> Dropped in at the local Costco this morning. The store was very quite, plenty parking which is un-usual.
> 
> On the way out I passed the optical department.....and surprise, There where 15 poeple waiting to be served, also very un-usual. I have never seen more than 2-3 customers there at any time.
> 
> The large fancy optical store a block away was totally empty of customers.
> 
> What makes Costco opticals tick these days ?


Maybe it was 15 people in line for complaints.

Just kidding.  Apparently, Costco tends to be a leader in the Chain type optical stores.  It has a good formula for business and tends to be very consistent.

----------


## tigerlilly

Back to school. It's second only to Xmas with retailers, and opticals housed in larger retail outlets see a bounce from the high traffic out in the store.

----------


## Johns

> Maybe it was 15 people in line for complaints.


15 people in line?  Hmm....maybe they're understaffed.  And you said the parking lot wasn't very crowded?  Maybe a staff meeting?


Nah, I think for-Life was right....:D

----------


## Happylady

I've noticed business picking up, too. We are usually busy in August.

----------


## For-Life

My former business sold 15 pairs of Drivewear Image with backside AR last month.  Shows that it is not just the cheap guys that are doing the business.

----------


## Fezz

> My former business sold 15 pairs of Drivewear Image with backside AR last month.  Shows that it is not just the cheap guys that are doing the business.



:cheers:

----------


## ADO

Hopefully the 15 people in line will get tired of waiting and go to the office down the street to get faster service.

----------


## EyeFitWell

Is it true (I remember reading this in a Consumer Report) that costco has a policy to only hire certified Opticians?  I'm not sure if that means no apprentices, only licsensed, or just ABO, or what....but the CR on glasses a year or two back gave Costco major props for service and product quality.  To be honest with you, I'm much happier selling to the people who are more "good vision" oriented than "how much?"

----------


## For-Life

I do not have a Costco in town, but if I did it is the one that I believe would be the biggest challenge to the business.  The main reason why, is through my understanding, it will not sell junk and has good prices.  Its consistency is above Wal-Mart and Lenscrafters.

This is why we have gone another direction.  It is all about differentiation, which Costco will not go after (because it is low price).  This is also why I will not cheap myself down during economic downturns.

----------


## Jamelina

> 15 people in line?  Hmm....maybe they're understaffed.  And you said the parking lot wasn't very crowded?  Maybe a staff meeting?
> 
> 
> Nah, I think for-Life was right....:D



Understaffed is right.  I used to work for them until they wouldn't give us enough employees in the department.  Two opticians on a weekend especially is a challenge.  We would constantly have 15 to 20 people waiting at a time and once you finally got to them they were mad they had to wait so long.  Management claimed the budget for the department didn't allow for another full time employee.  I'm just surprised they didn't take into account the amount of business they lost with people who didn't want to wait and would leave.  Not to mention the half-hour lunches leaving one optician was great!  :)

----------


## Johns

> Understaffed is right. I used to work for them until they wouldn't give us enough employees in the department. Two opticians on a weekend especially is a challenge. We would constantly have 15 to 20 people waiting at a time and once you finally got to them they were mad they had to wait so long. Management claimed the budget for the department didn't allow for another full time employee. I'm just surprised they didn't take into account the amount of business they lost with people who didn't want to wait and would leave. Not to mention the half-hour lunches leaving one optician was great! :)


 
Hmm... so maybe we weren't that far off the mark!

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *
> Dropped in at the local Costco this morning. The store was very quiet, plenty parking which is unusual.
> 
> **What makes Costco opticals tick these days ?*




9 years after I made this original post, the parking lot is always full and you can find the best parking spaces close to the doors 1 hour after opening, when the first customers are coming out.

*CostcoWholesale Corporation*,trading as *Costco*, is the largest American membership-only warehouse club.[4] As of 2015, Costco was the second largest retailer in the world after Walmart,[5] and as of 2016, Costco was theworld's largest retailer of choice andprime beef, organic foods, rotisserie chicken, and wine.[6]


Costco'sworldwide headquarters are in Issaquah, Washington,but the company opened its first warehouse in nearby Seattle in 1983. Through mergers,Costco's corporate history dates back to 1976, when its former competitor Price Club was founded in San Diego, California.[7][8][9] 

As of 9 February 2017, Costcohas a total of 730 warehouses; In the United States (508), Canada (94), Mexico (37), United Kingdom (28), Japan (25), South Korea (13), Taiwan (13), Australia (8), Spain (2), Iceland (1) and one in France (1).[1][10]

source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costco

----------


## Tallboy

For what it is worth, many if not most of my doctor's new patients or new clients of the optical shop are coming being ex-Costco optical consumers (either by seeing our reviews on Google or by word of mouth).  Obviously Costco isn't hurting for losing their business, but when I fit them in my best house design they all say how much better it is here than  at costco.  I'll never sell one pair of glasses to everyone in my city like costco, but I hope to sell a lifetime of glasses to quite a few.

Also Costco/Sams often only have one person on the floor, which causes backups.  Price is so low and they have tons of discontinued "designer" frames so a lot of people try them out at least once.

----------


## drk

Costco = cult.

You pay $50 and you get to feel like an "insider".

Nope.

----------


## pknsbeans

I've been an on and off member for the last 4 or 5 years. In that time, I've yet to see any Costco employee look good in their glasses. However, Costco did rate near independents in a consumer reports I read a while back. Maybe their employees don't shop there for glasses?

----------


## mervinek

Can you believe my mother just bought a pair of glasses at Costco?????  I usually get her glasses at cost from a friend that owns a wholesale lab, but she still went there this time.  She heard from her friends that they are so much cheaper and she figured now that she is retired she has to watch her pennies.  Good grief.  Bad fit.  I told her I would not adjust them.  She got a crappy frame with crappy lenses.  She paid about the same she paid for her silhouette frames and digital lenses I made for her last time.  I swear it IS a cult.  She and all her retiree friends are into "saving money."  Ugh  Face-palm.

----------


## rbaker

> Can you believe my mother just bought a pair of glasses at Costco?????  I usually get her glasses at cost from a friend that owns a wholesale lab, but she still went there this time.  She heard from her friends that they are so much cheaper and she figured now that she is retired she has to watch her pennies.  Good grief.  Bad fit.  I told her I would not adjust them.  She got a crappy frame with crappy lenses.  She paid about the same she paid for her silhouette frames and digital lenses I made for her last time.  I swear it IS a cult.  She and all her retiree friends are into "saving money."  Ugh  Face-palm.


What a guy. The poor woman fed you, changed your diapers, clothed you and took care of you all those years and now that she is in here dotage you are too cheap to give her a pair of glasses out of your own pocket. 

"Honor thy father and thy mother!"

----------


## pknsbeans

haha! you had that coming, mervinek.  i was going to give you the benefit of the doubt.  my mother doesn't accept no charge so I try to negotiate as low a fee as I can give.

The membership thing does produce a "i must buy here" mentality.  Amazon, sam's, costco, etc.

----------


## mervinek

> haha! you had that coming, mervinek.
> 
> The membership thing does produce a "i must buy here" mentality.  Amazon, sam's, costco, etc.


True... Although I have purchased several pairs for her without her knowing it.  Not being the owner of the business limits me a little.  I think in her case, it's not so much a "must buy here" mentality as it is peer pressure.  Her friends tell her how much cheaper it is, so she has to do what they do.  Insert eye roll here.

----------


## pknsbeans

Every "club" is the same. You want all your friends to join to validate your decision.

----------


## TEdFitz

That's it!!  I am installing a 20-bird rotisserie oven next to the dispensing table this weekend...Those hens will be my new loss leader.

----------


## Chris Ryser

Just came back from getting some items from Costco I forgot the other day and we needed badly.

The optical department had no line ups whatsoever, but the parking lot was packed.

The 20 cashes had lineups of 6 to 8 carts each. So business must be good. these days.

----------


## drk

They're all buying the Kool-Aid.

----------


## Pdarnall

> I've been an on and off member for the last 4 or 5 years. In that time, I've yet to see any Costco employee look good in their glasses. However, Costco did rate near independents in a consumer reports I read a while back. Maybe their employees don't shop there for glasses?


I work for Costco. I find it very interesting when almost all of the local OD/MD office employees come in wearing scrubs and buy contacts and glasses from me. Yes I asked them why. Number one answer: Your price is way less than what we can get it for.

----------


## optical24/7

> I work for Costco. I find it very interesting when almost all of the local OD/MD office employees come in wearing scrubs and buy contacts and glasses from me. Yes I asked them why. Number one answer: Your price is way less than what we can get it for.


I think this speaks more of the *Scrooginess* of your area’s Dr’s than for Costco’s prices. What office can’t source stock lenses and disco frames cheaper that Costco retail?

In fairness, though, I do know several area Dr’s that only give employees 20% off their retail pricing for personal eye wear. (Talk about Scrooge!)

----------


## lensmanmd

I have nothing against Costco.  They serve a purpose and deliver well.  And like America’s Best, WalMart and even LensCrafters, they serve the population well.   
The question is, what do you have to offer that differentiates you from them?   Quality service, selection and knowledge.  That is what you can offer.  Cheap products?   Discontinued products?  Yesterday’s technology?   Leave that to the others.  
Remember that value does not equate low prices.  If the scrub wearing staff cannot recognize that, it’s their loss.

----------


## drk

> I work for Costco. I find it very interesting when almost all of the local OD/MD office employees come in wearing scrubs and buy contacts and glasses from me. Yes I asked them why. Number one answer: Your price is way less than what we can get it for.


I find that hard to believe.  

If you're trying to say that Costco retails THE SAME STUFF for less than acquisition cost at a smaller account, I'm going to have to call bullcrap.  And I can prove that.

----------


## AngeHamm

> I think this speaks more of the *Scrooginess* of your area’s Dr’s than for Costco’s prices. What office can’t source stock lenses and disco frames cheaper that Costco retail?


Yeah, I call BS on that as well. That speaks more to miserly doctor/owners than the reality of eyewear costs.

----------


## pknsbeans

It is incredibly frustrating when a customer requests a quote for your "best lens" and after pricing them with either Varilux X, Definity 3, Auto 3 or IOT camber (whatever you prefer, top of the line Hoya/Zeiss, etc...), they reply with "well, I'm just going to get them from Costco.  They're cheaper."  I mean, if you want the McDouble, tell me you want the McDouble.  Don't ask for the mushroom swiss and tell me the kid's menu cheesburger is less expensive.  

Does that look like spit to you??? (obscure movie reference)

----------


## Pdarnall

In this area 70% of the homes are second homes for snowbirds. We also feature some of the best golf courses in the world, major polo ponies and some of the most exotic cars in the world. Oh yes and a HUGE concert every year. You know, the kind of place were people can buy what they want. 

I love it when my patients come back from an African safari and tell me they waited to come home so I can adjust their glasses.

I also love it when local OD`s write a script in front of me for a pair of glasses. 

The point is...people tell me they have bought glasses from the Dr office for years and are just as satisfied with the Costco quality. You do know the bulk of Costco Member have higher than average incomes.

Call all the B'S you want, I'll call it great products at great prices coupled with great service.

----------


## Quince

> It is incredibly frustrating when a customer requests a quote for your "best lens" and after pricing them with either Varilux X, Definity 3, Auto 3 or IOT camber (whatever you prefer, top of the line Hoya/Zeiss, etc...), they reply with "well, I'm just going to get them from Costco.  They're cheaper."*  I mean, if you want the McDouble, tell me you want the McDouble.  Don't ask for the mushroom swiss and tell me the kid's menu cheesburger is less expensive.* 
> 
> Does that look like spit to you??? (obscure movie reference)


This is perfect.

One thing I run into a lot is the 'I've never been given options before.' Then I explain most chains only have a couple of lens options available to them and they make the choice for you. I have probably a hundred different PALs I can order. The patient doesn't need that many options of course, but their say in eyewear shouldn't be limited to frame options only.

----------


## Pdarnall

> It is incredibly frustrating when a customer requests a quote for your "best lens" and after pricing them with either Varilux X, Definity 3, Auto 3 or IOT camber (whatever you prefer, top of the line Hoya/Zeiss, etc...), they reply with "well, I'm just going to get them from Costco.  They're cheaper."  I mean, if you want the McDouble, tell me you want the McDouble.  Don't ask for the mushroom swiss and tell me the kid's menu cheesburger is less expensive.  
> 
> Does that look like spit to you??? (obscure movie reference)


Dr what do you charge for Driveswear poly progressive with A/R? 

It's $170 here unless we have a $30 off promo going on sunglasses .

----------


## pknsbeans

What you meant to say was "Dr., can you match a product with these features to this price?"

What I actually read was "Dr., we can sell a product you don't offer for a price less than you."

Congrats.  I'm not interested.  The intention of my post was voicing frustration in the variability of the market.  While many customers realize there is a difference between Acura and Kia, some think everything in the optical world is already an Acura and some retailers sell it for Kia prices.  The term PROGRESSIVE is the same as AUTOMOBILE.  That is my point.

----------


## ajonesgirl

> I work for Costco. I find it very interesting when almost all of the local OD/MD office employees come in wearing scrubs and buy contacts and glasses from me. Yes I asked them why. Number one answer: Your price is way less than what we can get it for.


I believe him, in some instances.  I had a Pearle franchise thirty years ago, back when it was Cole.  I frequently saw Raybans being sold for less than my cost, by the big box stores of the day, i.e. Best Products.  On CTLs in particular, the more dollars you spend annually, the better the discount.  Most small practices can't begin to order the quantity of a BJs or Costco.

----------


## ajonesgirl

...

----------


## lensmanmd

Pdarnall,
Costco's pricing for Drivewear Image PALs is a great price, for sure.  We cannot beat the price point, however, we do not offer the Image in Drivewear, unless the RX is out of range for freefom.  We offer multiple full freeform designs, both compensated and non-compenstated in Drivewear (FF SV, as well), which gives a lot of flexibility to the fit.  
Unlike Costco, we turn them in less than 3 days, including BSAR and flash mirror, if requested.  
This is what pknsbeans was referring to.  Choices.  
Again, Costco delivers a good product for the price.  The BIG difference is the availability of options.  Costco's model is to reduce choices and in return, reduce costs via volume.  The primary eyeglass consumer only knows frame brands and total out of pocket expenses.  They are completely unaware of the available options that would make a usable pair of glasses into an exceptional pair of glasses.
Your previous post talks of second homes, safaris and luxury cars.  You do realize that most of these are for show, right? Bragging rights.  Look what I drive.  Look where I went on vacations.  Aren't I rich, jealous, yet?  I'll skimp on other, more important items. But most Costco consumers do not know the difference between a Canon Rebel and a Canon 1DX, other than the price.  Same goes with their eyewear.  If it's cheap and takes good pictures, good enough.  If it's cheap and I can see, good enough.  Again, Costco serves this category of consumer very well, and based on your following, you are obviously a talented optician.  Wouldn't it be great if you could provide your patients with real freeform options?  Wouldn't it be great to offer customized solutions?  I applaud your ability, I just wonder if you would be happier if your were able to provide more choices, more current choices.

----------


## drk

> Call all the B'S you want, I'll call it great products at great prices coupled with great service.



Costco can't even design computer glasses.

Costco is by no means the worst out there.  They're a balance between (as you said) quality, price, service.  Not a bad niche.  

I'm glad you're enthused where you work.  

But to act as though local ODs flock to Costco to write their own Rxs and fill it at Costco is a fantasy.  (Unless they work for someone who makes them pay retail, and the ODs are into the medium-quality-level products that you get at Costco.)

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Costco is by no means the worst out there. They're a balance between (as you said) quality, price, service. N**ot a bad niche.*




We can purchase just about all brand name products at Costco at lesser prices than a conventional retailer will charge.

Their success is to offer brand name products in limited models for the same usage, therefore to increase their purchasing power at the suppliers level for better discounts, and pass the savings on to the consumer while still making a good profit.

With the announced and expected heavy increase of online opticals activities after the Essilux merger in a few weeks, who has the best chances of long term survival ?

----------


## drk

I think they stock discontinueds.  Any success is merely the Costco brand/pricing.  Not product.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *I think they stock discontinueds.  Any success is merely the Costco brand/pricing.  Not product.
> *



If they can get away by selling discontinued frames that are sold by the wholesalers at heavily discounted pricing, they can sell cheap and still make a high profit on those frames.

As for lenses, which are no fashion product they limit the selection and purchase large quantities over the year and any supplier will lick his fingers to get their account.

----------


## Lab Insight

> If they can get away by selling discontinued frames that are sold by the wholesalers at heavily discounted pricing, they can sell cheap and still make a high profit on those frames.
> 
> As for lenses, which are no fashion product they limit the selection and purchase large quantities over the year and any supplier will lick his fingers to get their account.


You are correct Chris.  As a member, you get a great quality product at a great price. Selection is not an option hence why they are so successful.  As for lenses, it's all poly, one AR and one progressive.

----------


## bta89

So for those that work at Costco, which progressive lens are you using? It would be nice to know so when I see them, I'm not totally clueless as to which lens they are.

----------


## Happylady

I would rather see people buy glasses at Costco than on line. They have a more limited selection but since they can buy stuff so much cheaper than we can and have cheaper overhead their prices are very reasonable. 

This is is what I find- their progressive (and they only sell one) is decent but not the very top of the line. Works well for most people. Their AR is fair. Their warranty on glasses on broken and scratched lenses is poor. They don’t sell 1.74 or Transitions XTRActive. 

I know people who have gotten glasses there and they are happy with them except some don’t like the AR.

----------


## Pdarnall

> I would rather see people buy glasses at Costco than on line. They have a more limited selection but since they can buy stuff so much cheaper than we can and have cheaper overhead their prices are very reasonable. This is is what I find- their progressive (and they only sell one) is decent but not the very top of the line. Works well for most people. Their AR is fair. Their warranty on glasses on broken and scratched lenses is poor. They don’t sell 1.74 or Transitions XTRActive. I know people who have gotten glasses there and they are happy with them except some don’t like the AR.


How do you know the exact lenses and A/R that we are using? Please tell each manufacture and type, etc.

It would be nice to have a 1.74 lens, but our 1.67 works pretty darn good. Why sell XTRActive when you can sell a Transitions 7 pair AND a polarized pair to go with it?

I spot most new patients progressives lenses and and see the compensation marks,  Zeiss and other brand marks, etc. and 99.9% percent of the time the patient is very happy. Patient's can request a full refund on their glasses anytime. 

 Darryl Meister was a guest speaker at one our conference and I was lucky enough to talk with him after his presentation and blessing of our Lenses and Digital FF labs. He was adamant about not liking "All of the industry marketing..." He said the best lens is one "that is fit properly with an excellent PD, seg ht and frame fitting." Nuff said!

 Have a great day and most of all, I hope your patients say "Whoa!" When they put their new glasses on!

Philip

PS Dr K you are a riot! My wife and I try to guess your "spicy" responses before reading them.  :Bounce:

----------


## drk



----------


## Quince

I agree that a proper fit is more important than the actual lens style. As long as the opticians are well trained and know their product, it does not matter where they work. 

What this really comes down to is experience. If the patient want to special order frames or to see the latest Gucci release, Costco is not the place. If they have a -20.00 with 7 diopters of prism in each eye, not the place to go. But there is clientele where Costco/ Eyemart/ etc. does meet their needs.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Have a great day and most of all, I hope your patients say "Whoa!" When they put their new glasses on!
> 
> Philip
> 
> PS Dr K you are a riot! My wife and I try to guess your "spicy" responses before reading them.*




Thanks for posting Philip,  continue to stick around.

----------


## Happylady

> How do you know the exact lenses and A/R that we are using? Please tell each manufacture and type, etc.


I wasn't trying to attack you and I'm sorry if it seemed that way. 

There is a long thread on Facebook about what progressive Costco sells. It seems no one including Costco opticians know actually. It seems to be an Essilor base and digital. Some say it is similar to Ovation digital which makes sense since Ovation is what Costco used until recently. But that's just guessing.  I said it was decent and most people like it fine. It just isn't the very top of the line like Auto 3 or Varilux X but for the money can't be beat.

I don't know what AR Costco sells and neither do any opticians at Costco. I just know from people who have bought their glasses there that is isn't as good as Crizal. 

I have actually recommended Costco to people who need or want less expensive eyeglasses.

----------


## lensmanmd

I may be off base or a little behind the times.  Last I heard, Costco was using a molded Essilor blank, most likely the Ovations, with a free form back surface, similar to the Hoya IQ series of lenses.  Again, this may be old news.  So, not a true free form design.   I believe Happylady, as several of our opticians came from Costco.  They didn’t know what design when asked.  All they knew was that it was digital. 
As for AR.  I’m sure they are using an Essilor coating as well.  It’s not fair to compare all ARs with Crizal.  There are many independent labs that dip coat prior to the AR stack, and their coatings are just as durable.  Depending on which tier of Crizal, it may come with a primer and/or index matched dip coat.  
Many solvent based spin coats are very durable as well.  The big difference is in price.  Index matched lacquers with a primer coat costs time and money, therefore are more expensive to produce.  A decent factory hard coat and a decent backside spin will yield great results with AR.  As long as there is a good hydro and oleo process, they should be fine.

----------


## Tallboy

Let us not forget in something like custom digital optics, let alone "normal" custom made optics - Quality Control Is King.

----------


## lensmanmd

Costco’s QC is very good.  I have no doubt about their base QC.  Custom, however, is not their strong point.  Big box and chains, though they offer some “custom” lenses, do not do a very good job matching needs.  This is best left to the independents.

----------


## Happylady

> As for AR.  Im sure they are using an Essilor coating as well.  Its not fair to compare all ARs with Crizal.


Most ARs are fine when new. What I notice about Costco AR is that it becomes hard to clean after 6 months or so. All AR degraded but I find the better Crizals stay easier to clean and stay clean longer.

----------


## AngeHamm

> Most ARs are fine when new. What I notice about Costco AR is that it becomes hard to clean after 6 months or so. All AR degraded but I find the better Crizals stay easier to clean and stay clean longer.


+1. My patients with Costco lenses have more scratching problems than with lenses I provide, too.

----------


## Tallboy

Thing that is funny... these days I _could_ get _very_ close to Costco's prices, like _very_ close.  Save on maybe things like Drivewear which is... a very small portion of the lenses I sell.  Not on the lenses and coatings I like to fit though.

----------


## lensmanmd

What many don’t realize is once Vision coverage is deducted from out of pocket, many other retailers can provide choices for less.  
I am in no way bashing Costco.  They provide quality and value.  They are our biggest competition.  But, and a big but, we can provide better options and quicker delivery.  After shopping Costco, many return to us to fill their orders.  Those that don’t still get a good quality product for their dollars.  I would rather Costco fill their RXs than America’s Best.

----------


## DanLiv

> Thing that is funny... these days I _could_ get _very_ close to Costco's prices, like _very_ close. Save on maybe things like Drivewear which is... a very small portion of the lenses I sell. Not on the lenses and coatings I like to fit though.


Agreed, we all could by finding the best-price vendor and using entry-level product. But we generally don't because, first, when restricted to lowest-cost entry-level product, I can provide nothing better than Cocstco (not even much of my expertise, because at least in my are Costco opticians are ABOC and will do a perfectly fine job 80+% of the time). I hate putting that stuff out there because I know its passable but will cause disappointment, and customers will direct that disappointment at me. No one loves Costco glasses because theyre awesome, they love them because theyre inexpensive and most of the time work ok. There's no point in working for anyone other than Costco if I'm just trying to be "inexpensive and ok". Second, our businesses cant survive on that profit margin, Costco can. We dont have the infrastructure to be able to compete with Costco on price. Thats why we find something that Costco cant do well, and we need to excel at that.

I dont know if Costco optical operates similar to the rest of the store, but consider this:




> Through two quarters of its fiscal 2017, Costco has reported $1.06 billion in income (profit). That number is slightly smaller than the $1.26 billion it collected in membership fees.
> 
> If you examine the company's sales, it brought in $56.59 billion in net sales with a merchandise cost of $50.21 billion and sales expenses of $5.92 billion. That's a small loss when it comes to actually selling goods, but that's not a problem because the warehouse club uses the stuff it sells to drive memberships, indirectly driving revenue.
> 
> https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/...st-of-its.aspx


They are operating as a loss of sale of goods vs. cost of goods. Can you stay in business selling for less than you buy? None of us can, price competition (in the long run) is impossible.

----------


## Pdarnall

> I may be off base or a little behind the times.  Last I heard, Costco was using a molded Essilor blank, most likely the Ovations, with a free form back surface, similar to the Hoya IQ series of lenses.  Again, this may be old news.  So, not a true free form design.   I believe Happylady, as several of our opticians came from Costco.  They didnt know what design when asked.  All they knew was that it was digital. 
> As for AR.  Im sure they are using an Essilor coating as well.  Its not fair to compare all ARs with Crizal.  There are many independent labs that dip coat prior to the AR stack, and their coatings are just as durable.  Depending on which tier of Crizal, it may come with a primer and/or index matched dip coat.  
> Many solvent based spin coats are very durable as well.  The big difference is in price.  Index matched lacquers with a primer coat costs time and money, therefore are more expensive to produce.  A decent factory hard coat and a decent backside spin will yield great results with AR.  As long as there is a good hydro and oleo process, they should be fine.


Again, what make you think its  not the top of the line product bought in the millions of quantity? Do you have the access to that type of pricing from the head of Essilor or x company? Just saying...think about it. A big company will want to sell their best products in the largest quantity.

----------


## lensmanmd

Ok, now you are being belligerent, P.  I have never attacked you personally.  We all have been fairly nice to you and Costco, but you are now starting to cross the line. BTW, I work for a big company that is not part of the Essilux empire, and I participate in sourcing.  So yes, we have access to that type of pricing.  
Why does Costco not sell top of the line products?  The same reason that Keurig at Walmart, Target, and Williams Sonoma is not the same product, quality wise.  The same reason why a Samsung 4K at Walmart is not the same quality as a Samsung 4K from The Big Screen Store.  It's basic business.  "Where can you cut costs to meet our margins?  If you can't, we will not do business with you".  Like you say, companies want to do business with Costco, and many are willing to cut corners to meet those margins.    Who makes the Kirkland brand frames?  Not Costco.  It's an OEM.  The branded frames at Costco?  Discos.  It's all about margins based on volume.  C'mon, even you know that.  
Again, we all agree that your company provides a valued product for the average consumer, just not top of the line products.  I am a Costco member, will continue to be Costco member, and will continue to purchase products from Costco.  There are just some products that I choose not to purchase from Costco.

----------


## Bill West

> ok, now you are being belligerent, p.  I have never attacked you personally.  We all have been fairly nice to you and costco, but you are now starting to cross the line. Btw, i work for a big company that is not part of the essilux empire, and i participate in sourcing.  So yes, we have access to that type of pricing.  
> Why does costco not sell top of the line products?  The same reason that keurig at walmart, target, and williams sonoma is not the same product, quality wise.  The same reason why a samsung 4k at walmart is not the same quality as a samsung 4k from the big screen store.  It's basic business.  "where can you cut costs to meet our margins?  If you can't, we will not do business with you".  Like you say, companies want to do business with costco, and many are willing to cut corners to meet those margins.    Who makes the kirkland brand frames?  Not costco.  It's an oem.  The branded frames at costco?  Discos.  It's all about margins based on volume.  C'mon, even you know that.  
> Again, we all agree that your company provides a valued product for the average consumer, just not top of the line products.  I am a costco member, will continue to be costco member, and will continue to purchase products from costco.  There are just some products that i choose not to purchase from costco.



* marketing*

----------


## Tallboy

> A big company will want to sell their best products in the largest quantity.


Why in the world would a company want to sell their best products at the lowest margin when they could sell those best products at a higher margin and sell "decent" stuff at the lower margin?

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Again, we all agree that your company provides a valued product for the average consumer, just not top of the line products.  I am a Costco member, will continue to be Costco member, and will continue to purchase products from Costco.  There are just some products that I choose not to purchase from Costco.*


I fully agree with above statement, even if I never sold them anything.

----------


## Pdarnall

> Why in the world would a company want to sell their best products at the lowest margin when they could sell those best products at a higher margin and sell "decent" stuff at the lower margin?


Maybe to recoup R&D at a faster pace. The manufactures cost per lens is fixed unless they crank volume. They can pay for the R&D, assembly line faster with quantity...not selling a few to mom and pops. 

Why would a volume retailer even bother with buying a midrange product when they can get the top of the line for another .50 cents?

----------


## Tallboy

> Maybe to recoup R&D at a faster pace. The manufactures cost per lens is fixed unless they crank volume. They can pay for the R&D, assembly line faster with quantity...not selling a few to mom and pops. 
> 
> Why would a volume retailer even bother with buying a midrange product when they can get the top of the line for another .50 cents?


You are really spinning your wheels here. Electronics at costco, walmart etc are special models MADE for those retailers.

People looking to save money on something inherently are willing to put up with the occasional inconvenience or older tech. People who want cutting edge tech, white glove service and much more than just a money back guarantee are not.

----------


## Pdarnall

> entry-level product. But we generally don't because, first, when restricted to lowest-cost entry-level product, I can provide nothing better than Cocstco (not even much of my expertise, because at least in my are Costco opticians are ABOC and will do a perfectly fine job 80+% of the time). I hate putting that stuff out there because I know it’s passable but will cause disappointment, and customers will direct that disappointment at me. No one loves Costco glasses because they’re awesome, they love them because they’re inexpensive and most of the time work ok. There's no point in working for anyone other than Costco if I'm just trying to be "inexpensive and ok". Second, our businesses can’t survive on that profit margin, Costco can.


So you say we have a 20% return rate? Dude, Damage and Destroy or D&D better be under 2% or you will be looking for a new job. One way to pump up your $ is productivity. Do you sell two pair per hour, do you sell 20-40% multiples all day, do you sell 30% or more Transitions, do you sell Drivewear everyday and does your office sell 300-400 pair per week? What is your redo rate? If its over 2% you are getting a write up and working getting a new job wrapping hot dogs . Do you have your ABO and NCLE? You have one year to get the ABO or you are gone and the next year to get the NCLE or your gone. These are all great ways to watch your prifit margin...etc

----------


## Pdarnall

> You are really spinning your wheels here. Electronics at costco, walmart etc are special models MADE for those retailers.
> 
> People looking to save money on something inherently are willing to put up with the occasional inconvenience or older tech. People who want cutting edge tech, white glove service and much more than just a money back guarantee are not.


You are right and I'm just full of BS. Three times today, I had to go through this same BS roundabouts explaining why a local Big Pratice wanted an EXTRA $100/140 for their Trivex option on a Transitions FT 28. Our price is $140 total for the entire lens. Of course Big Pratice Trivex FT28 is WAY better than the competition!

12 years on OptiBoard has much of the same old "you sell junk", private practice sell premium unicorns, etc. as it always has.

It will be fun to look back on this thread in another 12 years. I'm sure we will still be using that same "old Ovation lens" from 2003... We will still be using a chisel and hammer to make it. Oh and dont forget the rattle can to spray on the A/R!

----------


## Pdarnall

> What many don’t realize is once Vision coverage is deducted from out of pocket, many other retailers can provide choices for less.  
> I am in no way bashing Costco.  They provide quality and value.  They are our biggest competition.  But, and a big but, we can provide better options and quicker delivery.  After shopping Costco, many return to us to fill their orders.  Those that don’t still get a good quality product for their dollars.  I would rather Costco fill their RXs than America’s Best.


You mean
VSP
MES
Spectera
Davis Vision
Superior
and another 3 or 4?
Yip it does lower the patients out of pocket at Costco.

----------


## lensmanmd

> You mean
> Yip it does lower the patients out of pocket at Costco.


So, you are saying that Costco accepts Vision Plans now?  When did that change?  Costco's business model has always revolved around keeping their receivables at the absolute minimum.  Receivables from plans have always been a pox on the industry.

----------


## lensmanmd

> 12 years on OptiBoard has much of the same old "you sell junk", private practice sell premium unicorns, etc. as it always has.


I don't think anyone here said that Costco sells junk lenses.  They use the same pucks as other labs.  Pucks are pucks. Younger, Hoya, Essilor, Zeiss, etc.  Volume dictates negotiations on pricing.  I can see why Costco lowered the prices on Trivex.  Many California labs and large retailers have due to Prop 65.  Trivex, however, is one of the smallest lens segments in the industry.  Great material, however.  Ovations are Ovations.  Accolades are Accolades.  Image are Image.  No matter where they are purchased.  
Point is, Independents do provide personalized freeform designs.  Independents provide solutions for those that are not 'bread and butter' consumers.  Independents provide up to date frames.  Independents provide boutique frames.  Independents provide a total experience from start to finish.  They may not sell trivex or Drivewear for lower than Costco.  And you are correct, out of the box, they are the same product.  But does Costco sell them in more than one basic freeform design?  Does Costco provide these in compensated Wrap designs?  You still have not answered that one.

----------


## lensmanmd

> Why would a volume retailer even bother with buying a midrange product when they can get the top of the line for another .50 cents?


I don't ever recall seeing a Canon 5DMKIII or MKIV at a Costco.  I don't ever recall seeing a Marantz, Bowers & Wilkins, or even Definitive Technologies at Costco.  
I wanted to replace my Canon 7D with a newer model and saw one at a Costco-once.  I got excited and brought it home.  I returned it the same day, as it was not of the same quality as my older 7D.  

That said, I don't believe that Hobie frames are top of line for an additional .50 cents.  

Just saying.

----------


## lensmanmd

Pdarnell, final note before I take off to shoot a few frames today.
I wish I had employees with your level of dedication.  The kool-aid they serve must be pretty powerful.  
Back in the dark ages, I worked for Lenscrafters, and they conducted annual "visioning" meetings to get all of its employees to the level you are currently at.  As you can see, it didn't work for many of us, and we parted ways.  
Keep doing what you are doing.  i am happy for you.  You obviously are in a position that you truly enjoy.  Costco is lucky to have you.  
Peace

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Costco’s QC is very good.  I have no doubt about their base QC.  Custom, however, is not their strong point.  Big box and chains, though they offer some “custom” lenses, do not do a very good job matching needs.  This is best left to the independents.*



Here is what Costco offers..........................
*KIRKLAND SIGNATURE™ HD PROGRESSIVE LENSES*

*Exclusive to Costco Canada

*
Some competitors' digital progressive lens designs surface only the back side of the lens. From a lens design standpoint, the most beneficial approach is a superior dual-side design, with controlled processes and high precision manufacturing equipment to transfer the design to the lens.Costco uses only the most advanced digital ophthalmic lens manufacturing process available, shaping the lens surfaces for much-improved performance. Our dual-surface Kirkland Signature HD progressive lenses have three areas of improvement over older generations of lenses since they:
allow for a faster and more comfortable adaptation,have a wider intermediate vision zone with quicker access to near- vision, andprovide greater long-term comfort, thanks to a smoother peripheral zone.
*See all of it:*



https://www.costco.ca/lenses.html

----------


## drk

WOW!  I'll take a industrial-sized 24-pack!

----------


## Tallboy

> It will be fun to look back on this thread in another 12 years. I'm sure we will still be using that same "old Ovation lens" from 2003... We will still be using a chisel and hammer to make it. Oh and dont forget the rattle can to spray on the A/R!


The Costco Optical near me has a google rating of 2.6 stars. My business that I pour my heart and soul into has a 4.8 star rating. 

Now I know my employees and I are good, but is it just _US_ that makes us 2.2 stars better? Maybe we are just that awesome!

----------


## Quince

> Maybe to recoup R&D at a faster pace. The manufactures cost per lens is fixed unless they crank volume. They can pay for the R&D, assembly line faster with quantity...not selling a few to mom and pops. 
> 
> *Why would a volume retailer even bother with buying a midrange product when they can get the top of the line for another .50 cents?*



This is how you cheapen a product.

It's why Maui Jim pulled out of Lenscrafters- they don't need the 'volume retailer' just so that that company can do unauthorized discounting on a product worth its price.

I can tell you for sure that Eyemart (similar, not the same) sells whatever massive amount of older PALs are handed off to them just like their disco frames. Until proven otherwise, I will assume the same for Costco.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Why would a volume retailer even bother with buying a midrange product when they can get the top of the line for another .50 cents?
> *



...............to a volume retailer a .50 cents increase could also mean $ 1,000 increase per day if the volume is there.

----------


## DocInChina

Does anyone know what design Costco is using for the Kirkland Poly Progressive?

----------


## drk

I mean this respectfully, DOC, as you are honored.  

Who cares?  There are a billion PAL designs out there.  Who knows and who cares, and whatever it is today, it will probably be different tomorrow.

The era of figuring out PAL designs is finito.  Get the one(s) you like, and fit everyone in them.

----------


## Oscar

> I mean this respectfully, DOC, as you are honored.  
> 
> Who cares?  There are a billion PAL designs out there.  Who knows and who cares, and whatever it is today, it will probably be different tomorrow.
> 
> The era of figuring out PAL designs is finito.  Get the one(s) you like, and fit everyone in them.



well said drk... all of today's lenses use digital surfacing and are leaps and bounds better than the old generations of lenses. however i think the information we strive for is what differentiates one from another?  if i am going to push a $1000 lens vs a $300 lens, it'd be nice to know what the differences are.

----------


## lensmanmd

One other add to this...get it..add....???it's friday.  Long week.  Lots of work.  
Anyhow.  With so many OEM designs out there, does it really matter what the engravings say?  IOT by any other name?  Some of the most respected labs use, guess what?  IOT.  They all brand it differently, call it different names, but deep down, the designs are the same.  Zeiss?  Essilor?  Hoya?  Just to name a few, all have OEM designs, too.  Labs that use these designs will call them something else, as well.  
We know that there are good, and not so good, FF designs out there.  Throw a hail mary and stick to the designs that you know work well for your practice.

----------


## Pdarnall

> ...............to a volume retailer a .50 cents increase could also mean $ 1,000 increase per day if the volume is there.


More like 15K pair per day....

----------

