# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  Shamir compaired to Hoya

## Boldt

Hey guys once again I'm coming for help, well more verification that my online detective work/research is at least in the ball park.
Back story: We had a Hoya lab rep come in the other day talking about the 50% off sale they are having at their lab. The Doctor goes nuts and forgets to ask the basic question of "50% off what?". So I'm going through and comparing apples to apples. (I hope)
Here is what I have so far:
MyStyle is about the Auto 3
InStyle is on par with the Auto 2
From what I have read the InTouch is almost a mixture of the MyStyle and InStyle with no compensation.
The LifeStyle seems to be a front molded digital they are passing off as freeform. Possibly with a tech that is like Verilux's Duel Wave Front. So the closest I can think to compare it to is some of the Seiko or my labs back side digital.
Array is on par with the Spectrum.

Have I missed anything on this, or am I crazy misinformed like the rep implied?
For comparison they have the line up like this:

MyStyle = league of it's own  (you know like all of the top lenses. That makes me wonder how many leagues there are out there.)
InStyle = S4D
LifeStyle 2 = and I quote "Difficult to compare with anything on the market due to the unique characteristics"
Array = Auto 2&3 and the S series by Verilux
Summit ECP iQ/CD iQ  = Spectrum, Phyiso, GT2, and Comfort enhanced

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## Abbeyf

In my experience... each vendor is going to tell you something different so listening to them won't get you far (at least in this.) We sell mostly Hoya and Shamir products so this is actually one that I may be helpful with.  MyStyle- Truly different from everything else as they (supposedly) take lifestyle and personal preference into account in the design. We don't sell it much as it performs for us just like any other good digital design but for more $$$ and hassle.  Instyle- MyStyle w/o lifestyle questions taken into account. Not sure why you would ever sell this unless you have someone like me who is out of range for a MyStyle.  Lifestyle 2- Comparable to an Auto III. Definitely a true free form lens like Auto III (unlike Essilor products) but SUPER particular to fit. Pray you don't mess up by a hair on any of the measurements.... LifeStyle and up through MyStyle are super particular to fit (unforgiving) with regards to measurements.   Array- Auto II knockoff by Hoya for highwrap/crazy cut out needs. Works great.  iQ's- you're on the right track here more or less but these are MUCH nicer lenses. Free form manufacturing added to what were really good basic designs in the first place. These have been our basic lenses for years with great success.  So I don't know about "crazy uninformed" you're close... For the record I like Auto II or III best performance-wise but it's pretty tough to ignore how AMAZING Hoya's EX3 is for scratching. Seriously.... Avance doesn't even come close :) Help any?

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## jpways

Having switched from Hoya/Varilux mix to Shamir in our office, I would agree with putting the Autograph 3 at a similar level with the Mystyle.  The Dr. in our office has worn both he's a -4.00 -2.50 x 176 in his worst eye and the Auto 3 is the first lens he's actually liked better then he MyStyle. 
Now, Auto 2 vs Instyle, I'd probably still put Instyle a half grade higher but in the same ballpark. 
From our Dr.'s experience with the S4D I'd put it below the Instyle but above the Lifestyle (He had a section of his Intermediate that skipped in both lenses that was partially confirmed by an abberometry of questionable reliability, our office has a OPD scan 3 and I ran it with him wearing his Mystyle, Autograph 2, Autograph 3, and S4D and there was a major difference in the rx map between the S4D and the other 3 lenses that I have trouble explaining away with just head position)

As for the Spectrum, which has become our primary progressive lens, I don't know where to put it in relation with the Array, because the Array came out after we stopped using Hoya, but I would say it's a much better lens then the Summit ECP/CD iQ

Now I would agree with the Hoya rep in putting the Summit ECP/CD iQ on the same level as the Comfort Enhanced.

As for scratch resistance of ARs I would agree that EX3 is better for scratch resistance than Avance, but don't forget that there's also Sapphire. I haven't used Sapphire much, but in the few patients I have, it seems to be holding up better than Avance.

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## Boldt

Abbeyf, Jpways, thank you both! 
I've been almost strictly Shamir for 2 years, basically after I left the good old LC, but this helps tremendously. I've been talking to old lab guys and my old lab reps from my old place and they said about the same things. Thank you both again this was very helpful.

Jp: what about the InTouch? 


The ar helps also, I'm using a house brand that has been better than sapphire for me.

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## jpways

In touch is unlike any other lens on the market.  It's (as best as I understand)  the Spectrum where they speed up the intermediate progression to get you in near intermediate faster.  There is nothing I've seen in any other company's portfolio that is equivalent

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## Boldt

That's what I though, but you know reps. 
From what I was told they both in creased and cut the power of the power "jumps" as you go down the lens. I love it, never had a non-adapt that was not one of the ones that refused to even try the lens.

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## golfnut

We sell a ton of INTOUCH and people love it! Made a pair up for our Dr and he said it's the best lense he's worn fwiw. Spectrum is also an excellent lense for the price.

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## Boldt

I love the spectrum! It's my 3 most used lens (Intouch and Auto3 being one and 2) It's simple, every one loves it and it's economical. I've put long time comfort enhanced users in this lens and they love it.

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## D_Zab

I realize you asked about lens specifications but seeing as how that has already been addressed I would also suggest looking into the %50 off discount from Hoya. I spend a lot of time looking at prices for various labs, it's characteristic of Hoya to offer very large discounts (typically they will offer a large discount on Hoya branded products and a smaller discount on anything non-Hoya like SV, FTs or competitors Progressives) but the regular price of their products is usually high enough where the money you save from switching labs is marginal.

I realize this isn't necessarily an uncommon practice but it's worth noting that most price labs will still beat their discounted prices. Quality labs (especially independents) will value your relationship so it doesn't hurt to discuss price with them to see if they will work with you.

Just my two cents from the lab perspective.

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## Boldt

> I realize you asked about lens specifications but seeing as how that has already been addressed I would also suggest looking into the %50 off discount from Hoya. I spend a lot of time looking at prices for various labs, it's characteristic of Hoya to offer very large discounts (typically they will offer a large discount on Hoya branded products and a smaller discount on anything non-Hoya like SV, FTs or competitors Progressives) but the regular price of their products is usually high enough where the money you save from switching labs is marginal.
> 
> I realize this isn't necessarily an uncommon practice but it's worth noting that most price labs will still beat their discounted prices. Quality labs (especially independents) will value your relationship so it doesn't hurt to discuss price with them to see if they will work with you.
> 
> Just my two cents from the lab perspective.


I've looked into Hoya and the 50% is great, until march then drops to 37 again great, but they set the price so high that when I compared apples to apples the price was a joke compared to what I pay at my lab even when the rebates are added in.

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## Lee H

> I've looked into Hoya and the 50% is great, until march then drops to 37 again great, but they set the price so high that when I compared apples to apples the price was a joke compared to what I pay at my lab even when the rebates are added in.


+1

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## eyepod

I'm the Shamir Rep in North Texas...in case you have any lens questions.  If I don't have the answer, I can contact Technical services or give you the contact info.

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## Boldt

Thank you, I'll let you know if I need anything!

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## WFruit

> Hey guys once again I'm coming for help, well more verification that my online detective work/research is at least in the ball park.
> Back story: We had a Hoya lab rep come in the other day talking about the 50% off sale they are having at their lab. The Doctor goes nuts and forgets to ask the basic question of "50% off what?". So I'm going through and comparing apples to apples. (I hope)
> Here is what I have so far:
> MyStyle is about the Auto 3
> InStyle is on par with the Auto 2
> From what I have read the InTouch is almost a mixture of the MyStyle and InStyle with no compensation.
> The LifeStyle seems to be a front molded digital they are passing off as freeform. Possibly with a tech that is like Verilux's Duel Wave Front. So the closest I can think to compare it to is some of the Seiko or my labs back side digital.
> Array is on par with the Spectrum.
> 
> ...


Not quite as far as the lens comparisons.  We run both Shamir and Hoya in house (except for the MyStyle and InStyle, and you'll see why).

Hoya:
MyStyle/InStyle = both front AND back surfaces are generated to the specific Rx needs (thus they need REALLY expensive generators, and, as I understand, the breakage rate on them is rather high).
LifeStyle = vertical component of progressive molded on the front, horizontal component generated on the back (it really is a real free form lens, nice explanation here: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/r...ges/lenses.pdf )
Array = full back surface progressive, the Spectrum is probably a pretty close comparison
iQ = front molded progressive with digitally optimized optics on the back (i.e. take a conventional Summit ECP/CD progressive, and digitally surface the back).

Shamir:
Autograph III = Full back surface progressive
Autograph II = Full back surface progressive
InTouch = Full back surface progressive, with the power change in the progressive corridor adjusted to "slow" the beginning of the intermediate to allow for a longer area of handheld device length viewing (basically Shamir lens designers woke up one morning and realized that there doesn't have to be a fixed rate of progression from distance to reading.  They worked out that, while there has to be a fixed amount of power change between distance and reading, parts of the change can go "slower" than other parts (which have to go "faster" to make up for it) A nice picture can be found here: http://www.shamirlens.com/index.php?...82;&Itemid=249 ).

So, for comparison of visual quality, since in some cases it's not possible to compare how they're made, I'd say:

MyStyle/InStyle ~ Autograph III
LifeStyle ~ Autograph II
Array ~ Spectrum

There really isn't a Hoya equivalent to the InTouch, because of the specific usage the lens is designed for.

I wouldn't say you were mis-informed as much as under-informed.  And, given the marketing spin done by lens vendors, that's hard to overcome sometimes.  Which is why Optiboard is such a great place  :Bounce:

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## sharpstick777

InTouch is a rare lens, not quite the only lens in its category.  Its a lot like the Seiko Supernal, the Seiko Superior Far, and Zeiss Choice lens in many ways.   

The InTouch is a great lens, its better than the Supernal and Choice (in my opinion) but its limited by the corridor length options and inset values.  In those regards the Superior pulls ahead with 11 corridors and over 900 possible insets (not counting corridor designs, which is about 6.2 million).




> In touch is unlike any other lens on the market.  It's (as best as I understand)  the Spectrum where they speed up the intermediate progression to get you in near intermediate faster.  There is nothing I've seen in any other company's portfolio that is equivalent

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## COMEINPEACE

here is a thought for the moderator and members..how about a stickie thread with a vote for best all around progressive... one for myopes
and hyperopes.(and yes i fully understand about multiple governing factors )most presbiopes today DO USE 'smart' devices
this is just an all around favorite(least rejected by patient,most wow factor) best go to lens, price is not a factor
This would be OUR real world experiences...not what sales reps tell us..i mean.. after all ....when has a sales rep EVER steered you wrong?

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