# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  Beginner Progressive

## Rialeigh

I know that someone (be it Hoya, Essilor, etc...) makes a "my first PAL" type of lens. I can't for the life of me remember the name of it, nor can I find any information. I have a patient that needs a +1.00 add and never worn glasses before. I have not had much luck putting this type of patient into a "grownup" progressive and was thinking of trying this newer lens. Any ideas?

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## Robert_S

Any decent progressive should perform well with such a low add (unless the Rx or POW are unusual)... If you are struggling with early presbyopes, there is probably something else amiss.

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## Fezz

Have you tried looking at any of their websites?

Have you tried calling them?

What does your lab suggest?

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## Rialeigh

Found it - It is called the Shamir FirstPAL, it is especially designed for early adaptation. We have tried using the ID Lifestyle, Autograph II, and the Physio for low ad powers but they just don't seem to work as well and it's a bit of a price shock.

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## drk

Nice idea, but that SecondPAL is going to be a biyatch.

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## Rialeigh

I am thinking we will try an Autograph II when the time comes but yeah that is a concern.... :(

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## DanLiv

The Shamir reps tell me there is nothing special about the FirstPAL that increases adaptation in first time wearers over any of their other designs. The only benefit of that lens is low price point to ease first time wearers into the pricier world of digital progressive lenses.

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## Robert_S

> The Shamir reps tell me there is nothing special about the FirstPAL that increases adaptation in first time wearers over any of their other designs. The only benefit of that lens is low price point to ease first time wearers into the pricier world of digital progressive lenses.


i would agree with this.

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## agr8194

I wear the FirstPAL & have fitted it to several first time progressive wearers. I wear a +1.00 add as did the patients that I have fitted. There is virtually no peripheral distortion anywhere in the lens and remarkably easy to adapt to. Because of the design only accepting a +1.50 add max the distortion is kept to a min. If you are going for the Autograph, go for the Auto III. It's pretty amazing.

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## Rialeigh

Update on the Shamir First PAL. The patient had never worn any type of glasses before. Rx was approx. +0.25 -0.50 with a 1.25 add. Pt put the lenses on (she selected a silhouette frame) and she loved them, even called after she got to work to tell me they were great. Maybe it is some gimmicky trick on Shamir's part but whatever, I am sold for now.

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## Judy Canty

> Nice idea, but that SecondPAL is going to be a biyatch.


  :Giggle:

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## agr8194

> Update on the Shamir First PAL. The patient had never worn any type of glasses before. Rx was approx. +0.25 -0.50 with a 1.25 add. Pt put the lenses on (she selected a silhouette frame) and she loved them, even called after she got to work to tell me they were great. Maybe it is some gimmicky trick on Shamir's part but whatever, I am sold for now.


I don't think it's a gimmick. The digital design; although it uses default parameters only, goes only to +1.50. Therefore, the unwanted astigmatism that must be accounted for in other designs that max out at +3.50 or +4.00 can be "overlooked". The design is much softer because of this and the adaptation is shortened due to the lack of "swim". It also trains them to visually discard the blur and the 2nd PAL is no trouble. Trust me, I've done it.

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## jonadonis

What is the prescription?  How old is the patient?  Anything unusual, like a big nose that prevents normal vertex distance?  Occupation?  Thanks!

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## HindSight2020

> I know that someone (be it Hoya, Essilor, etc...) makes a "my first PAL" type of lens. I can't for the life of me remember the name of it, nor can I find any information. I have a patient that needs a +1.00 add and never worn glasses before. I have not had much luck putting this type of patient into a "grownup" progressive and was thinking of trying this newer lens. Any ideas?


Active 8 by Hoya - fantastic product.   PAL with training wheels.

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## Jason H

Awesome drk

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## Rialeigh

Patient 42, Rx was:

OD: +0.25 sph
OS: pl -0.25 x075

I am corrected, the add is +1.00 OU

Patient's face is pretty normal. We did a Silhouette drill mount and made sure she had enough depth because there is no short corridor firstPAL. Patient is a HEAVY computer user at work that also has to look up through a window frequently. 

If I am not mistaken, the Active 8 would not be able to give the full +1.00 the Doc called for and our Doc is very discerning when it comes to checking a patient's add. The doc has requested we put some people in a Hoya Sync before but the Doc felt that would not be enough for this patient.

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## Jason H

I'm of the opinion that lens design is not as important as the concept of how progressives are made. I.e. the stronger the add the more distortion / harder adaptation. It's better to let them "suffer" with a +1.00 add now then wait untill they are +2.50's and you really have an issue. If the first pal thing works - God bless. My guess is the patient is an emmetrope. Your doing them a favor by introducing them to progressives at such an innoffensive add.

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## Jason H

Was an emmetrope, sorry. Or very close to it.

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## Robert Martellaro

Unwanted astigmatism in progressive lens designs is proportional to the add power. The state of the art, the last time I checked, is about 75 percent of the add, so a +1.00 add would have .75 of unwanted astigmatism, a +2.00 add 1.50, and so on.

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## David_Garza

Shamir FirstPAL...the price would have to be almost or just above a FT BF to make the "gimmick" work, then as DrK stated, what happens when they need more than a +1.50 add???  Do you just keep them in a cheap/inexpensive PAL????

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## Uncle Fester

> I'm of the opinion that lens design is not as important as the concept of how progressives are made. I.e. the stronger the add the more distortion / harder adaptation. It's better to let them "suffer" with a +1.00 add now then wait untill they are +2.50's and you really have an issue. If the first pal thing works - God bless. My guess is the patient is an emmetrope. Your doing them a favor by introducing them to progressives at such an innoffensive add.


I gotta disagree.

At 42 she's accommodating enough that lifting the chin to get the power is a pain in the neck (pun intended).

I'd have strongly suggested single vision if anything for a couple more years.

But I'm a big fan of not pushing progressives on those who are not motivated to wear them. I know many of you will disagree with that as well.

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## Golfnorth

> Active 8 by Hoya - fantastic product.   PAL with training wheels.


Is it available in Canada and do you sell it Hindsight?

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## agr8194

I am a firm beleiver that price has little to do with performance. Putting the right combo of options in front of the pts. eyes will have more to do with the success of the lenses. As for the "gimmick" you are reffering to, it is no different designing a lens aroung an early presbyopes needs than developing a lens for office use, which I'm sure you recommend to those who need it. As for when they need more than +1.50 Add, I will suggest a lens that will fit their wants and needs to make their vision as comfortable as possible. 



> Shamir FirstPAL...the price would have to be almost or just above a FT BF to make the "gimmick" work, then as DrK stated, what happens when they need more than a +1.50 add???  Do you just keep them in a cheap/inexpensive PAL????

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## Jason H

UF - totaly respect your viewpoint. I am assuming the wearer is motivated here or at least there was a specific purpouse to introducing a progressive at such a weak add. 100% agree also that selling people things they don't want is a bad idea. But trying to introduce progressives to someone who hasn't had to wear them all their life is far easier at a +1.00 than at a +2.50.

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## Uncle Fester

> UF - totaly respect your viewpoint. I am assuming the wearer is motivated here or at least there was a specific purpouse to introducing a progressive at such a weak add. 100% agree also that selling people things they don't want is a bad idea. But trying to introduce progressives to someone who hasn't had to wear them all their life is far easier at a +1.00 than at a +2.50.


Thanks and this reply is spot on. 

It's why a sit down with an optician is so essential for most prescriptions.  :Smile:

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## Rialeigh

Seems Hoya is getting in on this too with the ID Lifestyle 2 Clarity

http://origin.library.constantcontac...es+Aid_FNL.pdf

No mention on price yet.

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