# Optical Forums > Ophthalmic Optics >  Taking Progressive or Bifocal Seg Heights

## Lyrix76

Hi, for anyone out there, I'm having a small problem w/taking seg heights I never can tell if the customer is sitting at the same height as I am???? Does anyone have a cure for this problem?? If so PLEASE HELP!!!, I'm 5'5" & vertically challenged, especially when it comes to seeing if someone is sitting at the same height as I am :( please help!  :Nerd:  the funny thing is though, that I always seem to get the height right, but I'm a perfectionist, so I need everything to be just so.

                         Thanks Everyone

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## QDO1

> Hi, for anyone out there, I'm having a small problem w/taking seg heights I never can tell if the customer is sitting at the same height as I am???? Does anyone have a cure for this problem?? If so PLEASE HELP!!!, I'm 5'5" & vertically challenged, especially when it comes to seeing if someone is sitting at the same height as I am :( please help!  the funny thing is though, that I always seem to get the height right, but I'm a perfectionist, so I need everything to be just so.
> 
> Thanks Everyone


put a large mirror to the side of the patient, on the wall - and have a quick look.  I am 6'5, and have the opisite problem, and thats what I do If I can

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## rbaker

In keeping with my New Years resolution to try to be more sarcastic in 2006, I submit the following. 
Get a carpenters framing level at least four feet long.Assume the position.Place one end on top of patients left ear and the other end on the top of your right ear.Have colleague view spirit levels from the side and advise you when level.Take appropriate segment height measurement.With level still in place have another colleague take a vertical measurement from lower edge of level to outer canthus of the patients left eye. While still maintaining the proper position have another colleague take a vertical measurement from the lower edge of the level to the outer canthus of your right eye.Adjust your measurements trigonometrically to account for the slant induced by the difference in the vertical height between both yours and the patients facial dissymmetry.Write 2 below on the order form.Duck soup

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## chip anderson

*Always* re-check this with the patient standing, in a relaxed stance looking straight ahead, eyes in level gaze.  Measurements taken at a table are not reliable as your ht., the patient's ht., sitting posture, etc. all influcence the results.

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## C-10

> *Always* re-check this with the patient standing, in a relaxed stance looking straight ahead, eyes in level gaze. Measurements taken at a table are not reliable as your ht., the patient's ht., sitting posture, etc. all influcence the results.


Keep in minded that if you are a little shorter than most people you maybe a little low when measuring standing up so what I do is to try to sq. myself with them when sitting down and take the difference

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## Snitgirl

Just a tip:

The chair that you are sitting on while taking the measurement, make sure you can adjust it to go higher or lower.

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## Lyrix76

> put a large mirror to the side of the patient, on the wall - and have a quick look. I am 6'5, and have the opisite problem, and thats what I do If I can


Hi, thanks so much for the response, unfortunately in our store that's not really possible to do. But I do appreciate the advice, thanks again :bbg:

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## Lyrix76

> In keeping with my New Years resolution to try to be more sarcastic in 2006, I submit the following. 
> Get a carpenters framing level at least four feet long.Assume the position.Place one end on top of patients left ear and the other end on the top of your right ear.Have colleague view spirit levels from the side and advise you when level.Take appropriate segment height measurement.With level still in place have another colleague take a vertical measurement from lower edge of level to outer canthus of the patients left eye. While still maintaining the proper position have another colleague take a vertical measurement from the lower edge of the level to the outer canthus of your right eye.Adjust your measurements trigonometrically to account for the slant induced by the difference in the vertical height between both yours and the patients facial dissymmetry.Write 2 below on the order form.Duck soup


 LOL very funny, I needed that thanks:cheers:

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## karen

I am a tall girl so I would-when in doubt, get up, go around the table get on my knees (behave everybody!!) and make sure I was on eye level and double check my measurements.  After I dotted then I would go back around sit down and talk to them for a few minutes to see how they really held their head in real life (you say "measurement" to some folks and they tense right up)  As time went by and I got more confident I did not need to do it as often but it always helped.

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## gola

Maybe a stupid idea but if there where a device that is placed in the frame near the customer pupil level that would be like a hologram that you see the correct image if you are at the level of the customer. Or something you should line up.

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## Lady Nicole

Watching the patient's head movement/posture is very important to me while I'm taking seg heights. I make the measuring part of the process as low-key as possible so they don't tense up, have them stand up and look out the window while I watch to see if they are looking through where I marked the lenses, and then we sit down and talk about the order some more so they will forget about being tense. If the marks still line up after all this, great- otherwise I adjust them a little bit as needed. Make sure you've adjusted the frame before starting all this, too! :bbg:

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## CJ65

Yes - I echo what Nicole said. I work in a store in a mall and I always (especially with a lined b/f) mark the seg and then have them turn around and look out across the mall to make sure that the line does not interfere with their distance vision. 

It's tougher with PALS, as the lab ultimately has some leeway (I think like 2mm) as to where they place the seg. But a slight adjustment of nosepads or panto at dispensing can also correct any minimal problems. 

Chris

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## spartus

> It's tougher with PALS, as the lab ultimately has some leeway (I think like 2mm) as to where they place the seg. But a slight adjustment of nosepads or panto at dispensing can also correct any minimal problems.


If the lab's moving my seg measurement 2 mm, I'm changing labs. Yesterday.

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## Framebender

the lab rat and holding his body hostage!!     
 :drop:

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## mhboptics

I like to have the patient sitting, use a sharpie and dot the center. Then with them sitting, you can stand in any position to feel eye level.

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## harry a saake

lyrix, here is a little double check you can do, that will be right the vast majority of times. It,s called Saake,s rule of 35. If you have measured correctly almost all line segs will fall 3 to 5 mm below the datum line. All progressives will usually be 3 to 5 mm above the datum line. There are always the exceptions and a typical example might be an aviator frame with a long "B" measurement. If you have a frame with a "B" measurement of say, 28 mm and you wind up with a reading of 13 mm, i would remeasure.

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## Lyrix76

> lyrix, here is a little double check you can do, that will be right the vast majority of times. It,s called Saake,s rule of 35. If you have measured correctly almost all line segs will fall 3 to 5 mm below the datum line. All progressives will usually be 3 to 5 mm above the datum line. There are always the exceptions and a typical example might be an aviator frame with a long "B" measurement. If you have a frame with a "B" measurement of say, 28 mm and you wind up with a reading of 13 mm, i would remeasure.


Hi Harry, thanks so much for the tip, next time I'm at work I'm definitely going to try it on for size (pun intended :bbg:) You really should patent that! Thanks Again

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## Chris Ryser

> *Always re-check this with the patient standing, in a relaxed stance looking straight ahead, eyes in level gaze. Measurements taken at a table are not reliable as your ht., the patient's ht., sitting posture, etc. all influcence the results*.


I would even go a little further................have the person walk around the store relaxing and when you know he or she is holding the head in a normal way tell them to freeze........................and then measure.

You will find out that the measuremnts usually are very different from measuring at the table.

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## thep

Does anyone have any experience with the Y-Stick2? We have had good feedback and have one customer that has three in their store  :Nerd:

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## TPL

Taking seg hgts in todays optical marketplace is actually easy as compared to back in the eighties,when seg hgts had to be measured for 60 eye aviators with ed's as big as big as Sylvestor Stalone's ego.Now with such small eyesizes I dare say yhat you could make all your seg hgts for progressives 19 high and ft's 14 high without even measuring and you would be okay.In fact it is so standardized that I trained the lab workers that if the hgts are not these that they might tactifully ask the opticians to check for a written error! I wonder how many optiboard members have an AO Grollman progressive measuring device collecting dust somwhere in their office!

tpl054

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## For-Life

> Taking seg hgts in todays optical marketplace is actually easy as compared to back in the eighties,when seg hgts had to be measured for 60 eye aviators with ed's as big as big as Sylvestor Stalone's ego.Now with such small eyesizes I dare say yhat you could make all your seg hgts for progressives 19 high and ft's 14 high without even measuring and you would be okay.In fact it is so standardized that I trained the lab workers that if the hgts are not these that they might tactifully ask the opticians to check for a written error! I wonder how many optiboard members have an AO Grollman progressive measuring device collecting dust somwhere in their office!
> 
> tpl054


most of my heights are not 19 and 14, and if I fit them like that I would be in trouble

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## APVaccountrep

> lyrix, here is a little double check you can do, that will be right the vast majority of times. It,s called Saake,s rule of 35. If you have measured correctly almost all line segs will fall 3 to 5 mm below the datum line. All progressives will usually be 3 to 5 mm above the datum line. There are always the exceptions and a typical example might be an aviator frame with a long "B" measurement. If you have a frame with a "B" measurement of say, 28 mm and you wind up with a reading of 13 mm, i would remeasure.


I echo this...:cheers:  On a 7x28 however go 2mm

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