# Optical Forums > Ophthalmic Optics >  Abom Paper

## ziggy

I was just wondering, does your topic for your ABOM paper have to be preapproved? I checked the ABO/NCLE web site and it did not say. Thanks for the reply.

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## Darryl Meister

I don't remember getting mine preapproved, but you might give the ABO a call to find out for certain.

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## William Walker

They are very good about returning emails within a few days of submitting.  Cara I believe is the one you'll need to ask for.  Good luck!  I start working on my topic as soon as I finish my Optical Management Degree (Dec '06).

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## Barry Santini

> I was just wondering, does your topic for your ABOM paper have to be preapproved? I checked the ABO/NCLE web site and it did not say. Thanks for the reply.


I had to get mine approved way back in 1993.  It took the board over a year to approve my topic...mainly because it didn't fully meet their requirements for having a bibliography mostly grounded in ophthalmic references.

My paper tried to show (graphically!) how the precepts of "fuzzy logic" could be applied to the total eyewear-patient interaction,  in order to predict a whether a person would be "satisfied" with their eyewear, or not.

Today, my constant use of the term "sweet spot" to describe how satisfied a person is with their eyewear is directly related to this paper

Barry Santini, ABOM

BTW, I purchased, at that time, every ABOM paper the ABO had, to see what had been done.  Still have them....somewhere!

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## HarryChiling

Barry,

I would love a copy of these papers if you can find them.  I did not know that they sold them.

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## Fezz

Barry,
I second Harry's request. I have reviewed a few of them on-line, but, was unaware that they had more and for sale yet.
I am preparing to take the ABO Advanced test in the spring and upon passing ;^)  , I will be working on the Masters paper.



Fezz
:cheers:

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## Barry Santini

I'll try to find them

Barry

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## ziggy

FYI: After reading Barry's post, I phoned ABO/NCLE and they said they could give me a price for the papers next week, after Mike returned. I'll post the amount when I get the answer. Harry, if I get a copy I'll scan them in and shoot you a copy via e-mail.

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## HarryChiling

> FYI: After reading Barry's post, I phoned ABO/NCLE and they said they could give me a price for the papers next week, after Mike returned. I'll post the amount when I get the answer. Harry, if I get a copy I'll scan them in and shoot you a copy via e-mail.


Thanks Paul.  If you let me know the price I will split it with you.

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## Fezz

How about a three way split? Unless of course the copyright laws frown on that   ;^)



I would be interested in them. Let me know


Fezz
:cheers:

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## HarryChiling

It's like getting teeth pulled dealing with those people, but I think I might finally be getting a response today from the ABO.

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## HarryChiling

The verdict is in $5.00 a piece and their are supposedly hundreds of them.  I have them sending me a list of papers and I asked if they would give some sort of break if I was to purchase in bulk but didn't get a response.  I am a little disappointed that they are selling them individually, I was hoping for a compilation of papers.

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## Fezz

Harry,
If you could keep me posted as to what is available, I would be interested as stated earlier!

Thanks,

Fezz
:cheers:

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## HarryChiling

I will scan the list and send it to you once I receive it.  Also I am still thinking of going at them with some sort of bulk purchase to see if I can get a deal so if you end up wanting some of the papers maybe we can pool our resources and get a better deal.

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## Fezz

Sounds good Harry. Keep me posted. Thanks for doing the leg work.

Fezz
:cheers:

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## ziggy

HARRY, before you do anything let me know what the total cost is. If these papers are to "add to the body of opticianry" then they must be available to every one. This sounds like a job for ATO. PM or call me and I'll let you know what I got in mind.

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## HarryChiling

> "Absorptive Lenses", by Rick Blumenschein, 1988
> "The Affect of Lens Design and Placement on Customer Acceptance of Eyewear", by Melvin C. Merrell. 1993
> "The Age-Related Maculopathy Trail Kit: A Simple and Effective System for Dispensing Low Vision Aids by Opticians", by William B. Mattingly, 1990
> "Aniseikonia," by Randy Teller, 1993
> "Anti-Reflection Coatings: Update - 1991", by Francis Benson
> "Anti-Reflective Lens Coatings," by Greg Kitts, 1992
> "Antireflection Coatings," by Russell Neal, 1990
> "Aaphakia: the Opticians Role," by Burton Rubin, 1990
> "Asperic Lenses," by Billy J. Weaver, 1996
> ...


My count puts it at 126 papers on the list they quoted me $5.00 a paper

Make me broke equation = 5.00 * 126

Make me broke = 630.00

Again I have thought of asking for some sort of bulk pricing as well as pooling moneys together to purchase the papers as a lot.  Anyone interested please post and lets get it started, if anyone knows me with or without others involved I will get all the papers.  It will be easier with help of course.

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## Fezz

Harry,
Count me in. But, lets hope a "bulk" discount can be worked out!!! Any "legaL" issues come up for copying? 


Fezz(aka. Legal Eagle ;^)  )
:cheers:

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## Diane

This is obviously not a complete list.  Mine isn't there as are a number of others.  I even got the Eric Muth award with mine.

Diane

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## HarryChiling

Diane you are absolutely right, this is by no means a complete list.  The lady in charge of putting the whole thing together said she is going to be working on upgrading it and i wouls assume by the date at the bottom of the paper that tis list is from 09/18/00.

I don't see anywhere in the masters handbook where they inform you of their keeping the papers for sale, or even a transfer of copywright?

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## chip anderson

See if they will send them on a CD and save printing/shipping, costs and you will have them where you can reference them easily.

Chip

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## Darryl Meister

I did mine on a typewriter with hand-drawn illustrations, so they probably don't have an electronic version of it, unless they scanned it.

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## HarryChiling

> See if they will send them on a CD and save printing/shipping, costs and you will have them where you can reference them easily.
> 
> Chip


I think it's a money thing, I am going to call today and see what I can work out with them.

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## Laurie

An optical geek after my own heart.

I also typed mine, with hand-written illustrations.

!

: )

Laurie

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## Darryl Meister

Yeah. Wow, that was pain in the butt. Of course, when I wrote this thing back when I was 20, most computer systems didn't have drawing tools or decent desktop publishing programs.

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## HarryChiling

The cost goes towards time spent pulling, copying, and mailing the papers.  I did ask how much the cost would be for just the ones that are on diskette or CD and they said they would have to look into that.  I also asked what they would charge for me to drive down their and scan them all into the computer myself, they defered me to someone else for that matter.  They also said that people know that their masters papers are for sale and that the papers do become their property after submitted although none of their documentation states that.  I asked if their board approved the recent change in testing procedure (no loger need to be certified for 3 years before taking the advanced) they said yes and it was due to the fact that alot of people were asking them to waive the time.  I asked if it was possible for someone to take the november test, then the may test, then write their masters paper and they said yes although it has never been doen before (duh).  I also aske dhow they intend to keep the designation prestigious as they claim on their site, in which case they replied that only 5 percent of people that take the test pass it so this will keep it prestigious.

I don't know if I want the designation anymore, I worked hard and waited a long time to get to this point and now anyone can get there in a matter of months.  I am looking into other options and careers, this crap is getting old.

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## OPTIDONN

Wow thanks for that bit of advice Harry! I just called to confirm that the ABO-AC 3 year time period has been waved and in fact it has!!! I never really understood the whole three year wait myself!

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## OPTIDONN

And hey Harry, waiting is not what makes any certification prestigius. It's what YOU did to get it! I do kinda understand what the ABO is doing. They are a business and need funds. They get these funds by people getting certifications. It's the state of opticians today that have focred the ABO to do this. I have to add that I may understand why the ABO are doing this but I may not 100% agree with them. When I talk to people around here who have chosen this as thier proffession they think ABO certifications are a joke, all they care about is selling and only want enough technical training and product knowledge to make the next big sale.

Besides Harry...YOU ARE TRAPPED (HA HA HA Evil Laugh) you have invested so much time effort and money into becomming a good optician. Do you really want to start over again...especially with a kid on the way just keep kicking butt and promote the good name of the ABO advanced certifications

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## HarryChiling

> I never really understood the whole three year wait myself!


Heres the thing when I was planning on going this route, I was told that the 3 year wait was to ensure that you are dedicated and that you have the experience.

Now thats all null and void, how about you Donn how long have you been waiting?  Doesn't that have any effect on you, sure you can take it earlier now, but what about the time wasted?  I plan on getting more certifications and I can only focus my attention to one at a time and this one is turning out to be a waste of time.

Even the new study guide from the NAO (from what I have heard) just spoon feeds the answers to you.  No knowledge required just a good memory.  I was an idiot and bought all kind of books to actually understand the physics and the mechanics behind what is going on, when obviously the goal is memorizing.  Maybe I can memorize my way through med school or memorize my way through law school.

We are never going to get ahead when all we do is dumb everything in our field down.  I am just a little disappointed in the non chalant attitude that the ABO has concerning this.

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## Barry Santini

Well...ok, I've gone and done it!

I actually *ordered* a copy of my own (their own?) ABOM paper.

Candace was nice about it...but she said "YOU'RE the one who has everyone calling up for Master papers copies!"

I told her that's why I'm referred to as an ABOMination!

Barry

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## HarryChiling

> I told her that's why I'm referred to as an ABOMination!


That's funny.  They actually charged you for your own paper?

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## Barry Santini

No...this time Candace did me a solid!

Barry

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## HarryChiling

> No...this time Candace did me a solid!


Cool, Candice does seem like she is really nice although I gave her the third degree today.  I just had so many questions.

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## ziggy

> We are never going to get ahead when all we do is dumb everything in our field down.


Be sure and think your friendly optical chain store. Because of their inability to hire or train quality opticians they have applied the pressure, through PAC's, to not only ANSI but now it seems ABO/NCLE.

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## Diane

> Heres the thing when I was planning on going this route, I was told that the 3 year wait was to ensure that you are dedicated and that you have the experience.
> 
> Now thats all null and void, how about you Donn how long have you been waiting? Doesn't that have any effect on you, sure you can take it earlier now, but what about the time wasted? I plan on getting more certifications and I can only focus my attention to one at a time and this one is turning out to be a waste of time.
> 
> Even the new study guide from the NAO (from what I have heard) just spoon feeds the answers to you. No knowledge required just a good memory. I was an idiot and bought all kind of books to actually understand the physics and the mechanics behind what is going on, when obviously the goal is memorizing. Maybe I can memorize my way through med school or memorize my way through law school.
> 
> We are never going to get ahead when all we do is dumb everything in our field down. I am just a little disappointed in the non chalant attitude that the ABO has concerning this.


Come on now. If we write a book that doesn't go into enough detail, folks complain, and now, if we do too well, folks complain as well. I don't consider it spoon feeding. I consider that the book is good. Bill, Mike and I went over stuff for months and months getting it together, and will do a revision before long. By the way, WE don't own it. The NAO does. 

In my chapters, I've included references on what and where to study as well, at the back of each chapter. Bill and Mike have references if asked for them. 

I have to state that the test and the knowledge that one gains in studying for it is what makes it worthwhile, not waiting 3 years to sit for the exam. However, very few people IMHO would be ready to sit for the advanced exam very soon after they had just passed the basic test, UNLESS, they were re-certifying or had years of experience as well and knowledge under their belts first.

Harry, just go for it. Then do your paper. Or start on your paper now, anyway, and then take the test, whatever. You're better than this junk talk.;) 

Just my 2 cents worth...maybe 2 1/2 cents.

Diane

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## Darryl Meister

While I thought the book was a little light on ophthalmic optics, I was very pleased with Diane's section on ocular anatomy and physiology.

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## Diane

> While I thought the book was a little light on ophthalmic optics, I was very pleased with Diane's section on ocular anatomy and physiology.


That is the area that I love, love, love. :D  I tend to go overboard on it, some.

Diane

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## HarryChiling

> Come on now. If we write a book that doesn't go into enough detail, folks complain, and now, if we do too well, folks complain as well. I don't consider it spoon feeding. I consider that the book is good. Bill, Mike and I went over stuff for months and months getting it together, and will do a revision before long. By the way, WE don't own it. The NAO does. 
> 
> In my chapters, I've included references on what and where to study as well, at the back of each chapter. Bill and Mike have references if asked for them. 
> 
> I have to state that the test and the knowledge that one gains in studying for it is what makes it worthwhile, not waiting 3 years to sit for the exam. However, very few people IMHO would be ready to sit for the advanced exam very soon after they had just passed the basic test, UNLESS, they were re-certifying or had years of experience as well and knowledge under their belts first.
> 
> Harry, just go for it. Then do your paper. Or start on your paper now, anyway, and then take the test, whatever. You're better than this junk talk.;) 
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth...maybe 2 1/2 cents.
> ...


Diane, the book is great I am not trying to take anything away from the book it is very comprehensive.  I was very cocky the first time I took the test and failed it by a few points.  The second time I buckled down and studied and passed no prob, the guy sitting next to me had just bought your book and when I looked through it the content was almost verbatim what was on the test.  That to me means that somesome is just using the same watered down version of the test.  Peple were saying things like just remember moisture chamber glasses is an answer and sure enough it was on the test.

Diane I am looking forward to getting a copy of your book even though I have already take n the test, I am just like that I love to collect texts such as yours.  The point is do we really need to make it any easier to attain anything in our field?  I have heard from enough people on this board that the test is too watered down as it is, then to take away the  period that was supposedly the experience part of it, what next a masters paragraph?  I don't see how this wouldn't concern you as well  your designation is going to become easier to attain as well.  The tests don't mean squat its the knowledge that counts and if I had known that this would end up being the state of things I don't know if I would have even taken the tests I have the relevant knowledge the tests were just proof that I had the dicipline to jump through some hoops.   Now it's just another piece of expensive toilet paper on the wall.

The board that makes these decisions at the ABO/NCLE is supposedly comprised of certified opticians.  I aske dhow many voted to approve this and received a kind of I don't remember.  When I asked how does one get elected to this board and are the minutes available to opticians I was ignored.  I am more concerned with the way things are going.

I felt a feling of pride that I would wrte a paper that would "add to the bdoy of knowlege" whn all it is doing is linin the cofers f an organization.  Before anyone jumps on that statement read the following.

Me - How do you justify charging $5.00 for the masters papers?

ABO Rep - We have to have someone to pull these documents and copy them and mail them thats why.

Me - What if I drove down there with my laptop and scanner and scanned al the documents into the computer and even put them on your site what would that cost me?

ABO Rep - ...

Me - What if I requested only the ones that were available on CD or diskette, would copying them this way make them more affordable?

ABO Rep - You might wan tto call the director, he should be able to answer some of these questions for you.

I am still reserving judgement, because I want to know what the director is going to say to me.  I have a feeling it is going to be a no go because how will they make money if I can come and get them myself.  Look if I were to get a hold of these papers I think you all know whats going to happen to them :D.  I believe that knowledge should not be horded and if I am wrong, well it won't be the first time.

By the way thanks for letting me rant.

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## Ory

When an OD, MD, PhD, or other researcher writes a paper of any significance it is published in a peer reviewed journal.  This adds to the body of knowledge, ensuring others get a benefit from the researcher's work.  Why shouldn't the same be true of opticians?

Insist the ABO submit the ABOM papers to a journal or periodical, even if it is only a trade magazine.  Why should your hard work sit on a shelf collecting dust?  Perhaps reading these papers will inspire others to take the masters test and increase their skill level!

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## HarryChiling

> When an OD, MD, PhD, or other researcher writes a paper of any significance it is published in a peer reviewed journal. This adds to the body of knowledge, ensuring others get a benefit from the researcher's work. Why shouldn't the same be true of opticians?
> 
> Insist the ABO submit the ABOM papers to a journal or periodical, even if it is only a trade magazine. Why should your hard work sit on a shelf collecting dust? Perhaps reading these papers will inspire others to take the masters test and increase their skill level!


Well said Ory, until someone mentioned it they said they have not received a call about purchasing the papers in years.  As an organization they are dropping the ball.  Where does any of this money go to, why are these organization skeep saying the mney is going to better opticianry when they are lowering standards and we are actually losing ground.

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## Barry Santini

> When an OD, MD, PhD, or other researcher writes a paper of any significance it is published in a peer reviewed journal. This adds to the body of knowledge, ensuring others get a benefit from the researcher's work. Why shouldn't the same be true of opticians?
> 
> Insist the ABO submit the ABOM papers to a journal or periodical, even if it is only a trade magazine. Why should your hard work sit on a shelf collecting dust? Perhaps reading these papers will inspire others to take the masters test and increase their skill level!


YIKES! As much as I am/was proud of my ABOM paper...I don't think it was prepared to the accepted & proper journalistic standards for professional journals.  It might be embarssing for me to have it published.

But I stand by its central tenant and premise.

BTW, Since I had (at the time, 1993) all the ABOM papers in their files, I can safely say:

1. Some were EXTRAORDINARY...well beyond anything I could hope to do

2. Most were OK, and seemed to center (I feel) too much on UV. I'm a renagade on UV!

3. Some were so poorly written that I wouldn't have approved them...but then again...I'm not on the ABO board!

I think you will find that later papers are getting really good.  I'd love to revisit/revise mine...based on my experience since I wrote it.

Barry Santini, ABOMination

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## ziggy

To help illustrate the point of at least mine if not Harry's disappointment in hearing that the ABO/NCLE dropped the 3 year requirement I'll tell you about my wife's dream of owning a Jaguar. All of her life her ideal car was a Jag, to her it said, class, being special, making it to the top. A few years ago when we had gotten to the point in our lives where we could afford to look at one, she found out the price had dropped because Ford now owned the company. It may sound silly but for her, the shimmer was gone off those Jag's. Its kind of like that, if they reduce the time, or make the test more standard and it becomes available to more people, it some how makes it less special. That being said, there are still less than 500 ABOM's. That seems like a very special group

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## OPTIDONN

I'm willing to bet that if they made the ABO-AC/ABOM certification even easier it would still be a small percentage of opticians who would be willing or motivated to go for it. I'm glad they dropped the three year waiting period. To me thats not what made the ABO-AC/ABOM designation special. Any one can wait three years, thats not hard to do. It's the studying and what you learned that make the test special. I plan on over studying. I would rather go in there over prepared and use only a fraction of that info. for the test. The point is not that I used only a small amount of the info that I learned for the test but what I learned in preparation. I don't think, in this case we should get too upset at the ABO. They are just responding to the state of opticianry today. If we abandon the ABO because we feel that things are too easy we loose one of the only edges that we have. If we encourage more and more people to take interest in certifications, the ABO may respond by making the tests harder in an attempt to make their certifications a little more meaningfull.

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## ziggy

> If we encourage more and more people to take interest in certifications, the ABO may respond by making the tests harder in an attempt to make their certifications a little more meaningfully.


Your right, Thats why I love this board, discussions like these can only help us all.

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## Darryl Meister

> I'm willing to bet that if they made the ABO-AC/ABOM certification even easier it would still be a small percentage of opticians who would be willing or motivated to go for it.


I agree completely.

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## HarryChiling

> I'm willing to bet that if they made the ABO-AC/ABOM certification even easier it would still be a small percentage of opticians who would be willing or motivated to go for it.


I think the purpose of doing this is to make it easier for people to go for it.  I know alot of opticians that would take the first test and then study to take the next test coming aroung in a couple of months, but I don't know many that after 3 years would even think that they retained enough knowledge to pass the first one again.  I think the time frame weeded out the unmotivated which will no longer be the case in my opinion.  Keep in mind the reason they told me that they did it was because everyone always called to get the 3 year period waived.

The CPO series of tests has a time frame, the COA series of tests hasd a time frame.  These organizations don't bend their rules to suit the test taker, thats why it is called a test.  

ABO qualifiers

1)high school graduate

ABO-AC qualifiers

1)sames as above
2)3 year recertification period
3)pass the ABO

ABOM qualifiers

1)same as above
2)pass the ABO-AC
3)write a paper that the board approves

The certifying body for opticians has just made thing easier is the point.  Why don't we get rid of the high school graduate thing as well if it is solely based on knowledge?

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## HarryChiling

I just want the profession to get stronger and grow, I don't think that this change is beneficial for opticians.

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## OPTIDONN

The CPO has a wait time of 6 months between tests. The tests are only offered about every 6 months. I don't think a wait time is beneficial at all. All that it entails is your ability to do nothing for three years, not very hard. I think the only reason people wanted the three year wait time waved was because it seemed silly. I don't see how waiting three years makes the test more exclusive. I think we should focus more on making the test more optical oriented rather than sales and management. More focus should be placed on that rather than the time period being waved. Heck if they wanted to make very exclusive they should make you wait 10 years!
I think that if people get thier master certifications they may be more willing to stay in this field and keep it as a career. The ABO removing the three year wait period is one of the best things that they could do! However as you, Darryll and others have mentioned I am dissapointed that there is not as much emphasis on optics, thats the real shame! Harry you are one of the smartest people I know and I know how you are dissapointed but by wanting to leave the field or abandon the ABO would contribute to the weakening of opticianry. We can't afford to loose good people! Stick it out and continue to contribute to the field! It may seem like an uphill battle but if you leave and give up you are contributing to the problem...besides your not the kind to run!:cheers:

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## HarryChiling

Donn, I am not going anywhere I just said that to show the level of my frustration.  You know a couple of years ago when I started my waiting period I would have appreciated someone telling me that the wait was just some stupid rule, but the reason I got was that it was their to make sure that the candidates were experienced.  Now I am supposed to believe that it's not needed I spent a couple years being convinced that it was necessary, and now it's not.  I would have appreciated some honesty instead of the smoke being blown.  This is a discussion that can't be resolved by thinking because obviously it is opinion based, however I am curious to see how things look for the ABO in a few years and to see how watered down the test gets.  You think it's bad now when some hot head optician (like I was :bbg:) tells you that you don't know jack because he is ABO certified, wait until he says hes ABO Advanced certified.  Anyone can cram for the tests in a few short months.

A master electrician has a 3 year wait, a master plumber has a 3 year wait.  Opticians are supposed to be better than that, please.

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## OPTIDONN

To be honest if I had just waited the three year period and completed the Advanced Test then out of the blue they got rid of the waiting period, I'd be pretty irritated too. But since this gives me a boost I'm pretty happy. But Harry, could you imagine if we made as much as master plumbers and electricians!!! Ahh life would be sweet:p

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## wmcdonald

If the Master's Certificate is designed to measure ADVANCED knowledge, then there surely must be some time between exams to gain that advanced training and education through additional study to allow successful completion of the requirements. The initial ABO certification is at a very basic level, and is minimal at best, so most of those who take the advance exam exam will be unsuccessful sans additional study. The ABOM is suppossed to be a measure of a higher understanding of Ophthalmic Optics, and in fact, has a very poor pass rate. I do not think allowing folks to choose which exam they take is sound academic policy, but ABO might want to consider a plan in which those who consider themselves up to the task could simply skip the basic exam and go straight to the advanced. I suspect they need all the study time they can get considering the poor pass rate, but this may be something to evaluate empirically. The real answer, in my opinion, is for the profession and industry to respect the knowledge an individual who completes the ABOM designation brings to the table. When we begin to value knowledge it will increase the numbers who wish to sit for the exam and complete the so-called thesis.

As to the theses, most are not up to publishable standards. In the past, I have reviewed many of these papers, and while the level of knowledge was evident, the formatting of the papers would not be accepted by peer-reviewed journals that I am aware of in any field. We would need to train the folks in writing and proper development of the papers for that to be viable, but the concept of a peer-reviewed journal to add to the body of knowledge is an excellent idea, and one I feel can be accomplished. There are those of us out here who do know how to do research and would be willing to provide that training if it is deemed something folks are interested in doing, but it will also require effort.

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## HarryChiling

> We would need to train the folks in writing and proper development of the papers for that to be viable, but the concept of a peer-reviewed journal to add to the body of knowledge is an excellent idea, and one I feel can be accomplished. There are those of us out here who do know how to do research and would be willing to provide that training if it is deemed something folks are interested in doing, but it will also require effort.


Thank you for some enlightenment, and the offer to help with research.  I currently have access to Johns Hopkins and Towson Universitys networks and find myself gaining access to articles very easily, but I might have to take you up on that some time. ;) 

I just got off the phone with Mike Roube and was told that the papers are there for examples to learn how to write papers, when I mentioned that I thought they were there to add to the body of knowledge in opticianry,  and if the administartive costs were high I would be willing to drive down there and scan all the documents and leave them with a digital version of them, I was told that most people want a hard copy and that they have the capability to do that their.  I SMELL OLD BOYS NETWORK.  The reality is I went all the way to the top to try and provide a solution and was still turned away.  I offered services that would cost good money and was turned away.  I offered to volunteer free hours to help and was turned down.  They told me that they are going to make the site more interactive in the future, they didn't need my help with that eigther.  Looks like the ABO has far too much help than they know what to do with, I guess thats why opticianry is at the peak of it's greatness. :angry: 

Look I have a right just like anyone else to demand more of the organization that is supposed to represent something in our field.

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## OPTIDONN

Harry look at the good news...YOU HAVE TO HELP ME STUDY!!!:D

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## Barry Santini

> I SMELL OLD BOYS NETWORK  :angry:


Harry:

I think doth need to "chill"...a little. THE ABO is an old optician's organization.  We're not gonna have them see your *truth*...anytime soon.

Let's take a more, relaxed approach.

Barrs

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## wmcdonald

....of papers are fine, but there are no standards (at least not that I know of) regarding referencing style, format, etc. For example, most health care referencing is done in APA style, while ABO/NCLE generally accepts anything. We would need to come up wih some kind of standardization to accomplish a professional product that is academically sound, and a peer review process that is done by people who have not only technical expertise but understand academic writing. This concept is foreign to a profession that largely is apprentice-trained, but it can be done. There are many with academic credentials in Opticianry to help foster us on the road to such change, but it is often stymied by those in leadership roles who feel we are doing just fine as we now exist. I for one do not agree with their assessment, and hope we can one day see a positive change regarding the acceptance of some kind of advanced credential and recognize it fully.

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## HarryChiling

> There are many with academic credentials in Opticianry to help foster us on the road to such change, but it is often stymied by those in leadership roles who feel we are doing just fine as we now exist.


It is the status quo that upsets me the most and yes it doe feel as though some of the organizations that are meant to help further our carrer as a whole is sometimes less than supportive.  I am up untill almost 2:00 in the morning nightly woking on the computer to create something that could be usefull to opticians as a whole or reading to help further myself along, or any number of things focused towards advancing opticianry.  I have consistently dedicated 5% of my pay to further my education and to help further opticianry.  I am a put up or shut up type person and I don't shut up very often if you know what I am saying.  It is 3 oclock right now and I have stayed up for the 4th night in a row pulling a marathon data entry session and have just completed a contact lens database that I will be offering to opticiians for free.  I am more than likely going to offer it to the CLSA as well, but already know their answer (they don't need it).  Probably because they can't sell it.

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## Barry Santini

...and I think it's better than I remmeber...but:

I would still revise/rewrite base on my experience since 1994.

For anyone who gets a copy, I hope you find it interesting...and please note: I welcome any comments!

Barry Santini

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## kcount

> My count puts it at 126 papers on the list they quoted me $5.00 a paper
> 
> Make me broke equation = 5.00 * 126
> 
> Make me broke = 630.00
> 
> Again I have thought of asking for some sort of bulk pricing as well as pooling moneys together to purchase the papers as a lot. Anyone interested please post and lets get it started, if anyone knows me with or without others involved I will get all the papers. It will be easier with help of course.


 
Just curious, what ever happened with this idea?

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## Wes

Harry C sure was a firecracker eh?  Reminds me of me. I think we both still are. The "establishment", the old timers, the status quo don't like smart dedicated hotheads like us. I think it makes them feel threatened. I once had a boss who would introduce himself to higher ups as a certified optician(ABOC) and point to me in the edger room and describe me as a school trained lab tech. This when I had higher  certifications than his.  That's the status quo right there. They have the status and that's the quo. 
As to the papers, talk to Harry C. He has the info you need. 
Wes

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