# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  Hoya and Essilor

## buckeyefan

We mostly prescribe Varilux PAL's (Physios and Comforts).  We just started an account with Hoya.  The prices are much better (especially for the freeform).  What Hoya lens is comparable to a Comfort? And to a Physio? Thank you!

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## Golfnorth

> We mostly prescribe Varilux PAL's (Physios and Comforts).  We just started an account with Hoya.  The prices are much better (especially for the freeform).  What Hoya lens is comparable to a Comfort? And to a Physio? Thank you!


Hoya lenses are way better than Essilor product from a technology point of view and as you say from a price perspective.
Good to change suppliers then Essilor can focus their energy on making lenses for Coastal Contacts.
Hindsight 20/20 would be the person to ask about what's comparable.

Regards,
Golfnorth

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## tessa_eyenstein

I've had great success with the LifeStyle 2 lenses. I'll put the active presbyopes in the LifeStyle 2 Clarity and those stationed in front of the computer in the LifeStyle 2 Harmony. Of course if they're willing to spend an extra dollar, I'd put them in the MyStyle, which is personalized to the wearer. Good luck.

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## Golfnorth

> I've had great success with the LifeStyle 2 lenses. I'll put the active presbyopes in the LifeStyle 2 Clarity and those stationed in front of the computer in the LifeStyle 2 Harmony. Of course if they're willing to spend an extra dollar, I'd put them in the MyStyle, which is personalized to the wearer. Good luck.


Just curious as to know how much more as a percentage is your selling price of MyStyle vs Lifestyle2.
Please feel free to PM me.

Many thanks,
Golfnorth

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## Golfnorth

Tessa;

Also welcome to Optiboard! :)

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## LENNY

We just started an account with Hoya. The prices are much better (especially for the freeform)

Interesting observation! The prices are beetter but you dont know how good or bad  the lenses from Hoya in comprising to Essilor!

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## nokato

We do a ton of mystyles and have great success with them.  I put comfort patients in the GPW and have had no non adapts, they actually like the Hoya lens more.  Switched from essilor to hoya about 7 years ago and have never looked back.

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## kcox

I will say that we have had trouble with availability in the GP wide and have been told that it eventually will be phased out.

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## ThatOneGuy

> We just started an account with Hoya. The prices are much better (especially for the freeform)
> 
> Interesting observation! The prices are beetter but you dont know how good or bad  the lenses from Hoya in comprising to Essilor!


+1

Each lens company has its own philosophy of lens design. Their own reason for being.  If all lenses were created equally, what would be the purpose of a new company entering the marketplace?  Each company patents technology that it plans to utilize to "prove" their product is better.

I would encourage you to read each manufacturer's literature (websites, marketing brochures, white papers, etc.) to get a feel for what that company believes to be important and worth talking about as a differentiating factor in their products.  Then I would encourage you to spend some time on google reading lens patents and seeing who holds what patents and what patents are shared with who else, etc.

Knowing the philosophy of company's lens designs will help you to not only serve patients more competently, but also enable you to sell your products more confidently.

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## Scooter224

hey buckeyfan,
it would be interesting to get a feedback in 2-3 months on your experience with hoya lenses. we tried them last year (they catched us with big discount). we had about 60% non adapters. mostly on amplitude and lifestyle. we had to change back to essilor. i don't like the big E at all, but their new s series is really good. no problems at all.
you could compare the comfort to the LifeStyleV+ (thats how they name it her in germany, don't know if its the same name in the us) but don't use this lens for hyperopes. our experience was devastating.

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## Golfnorth

> hey buckeyfan,
> it would be interesting to get a feedback in 2-3 months on your experience with hoya lenses. we tried them last year (they catched us with big discount). we had about 60% non adapters. mostly on amplitude and lifestyle. we had to change back to essilor. i don't like the big E at all, but their new s series is really good. no problems at all.
> you could compare the comfort to the LifeStyleV+ (thats how they name it her in germany, don't know if its the same name in the us) but don't use this lens for hyperopes. our experience was devastating.


60% non-adapt is certainly devastating. 
I'm not sure why you would fit Amplitude. We use it as our entry-level progressive and for social assistance.
I'm curious on the non-adapts if you and your team looked at what the client was wearing previously and guided them to the proper product being ever
careful not to go backwards (ie. customer is wearing a Physio then you fit them with an Amplitude). I switched to Hoya and a non-adapt (providing we are doing our job properly) is virtually a thing of the past for us.

Regards,
Golfnorth

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## Scooter224

> 60% non-adapt is certainly devastating. 
> I'm not sure why you would fit Amplitude. We use it as our entry-level progressive and for social assistance.
> I'm curious on the non-adapts if you and your team looked at what the client was wearing previously and guided them to the proper product being ever
> careful not to go backwards (ie. customer is wearing a Physio then you fit them with an Amplitude). I switched to Hoya and a non-adapt (providing we are doing our job properly) is virtually a thing of the past for us.
> 
> Regards,
> Golfnorth


hey golfnorth,
you are right, we used the amplitude just for people with no money. we have better succes with the essilor ideal (don't know the us name). but it is much more expensive than the amplitude. we mostly sell ideal, comfort ne and the s series. normaly we don't do any downgrades, so it really is a big miracle, why most people had so many troubles with the hoya lenses. a big chain next to us is using hoya, so we thought it would work for us too. i don't know how the prices and discount are in the us, but for us their offer was very good and we wanted to try it.
we fitted the lenses at the lower edge of the pupil and the feedback was that the customers still had to move their head down a little, to get a sharp vision for the far distance. maybe the add power is increasing faster than with essilor glasses or we just had the wrong customers at the wrong time.

regards,
christian

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## sharpstick777

From a lab that sells all brands of lenses, my lowest non-adapt rates are on Seiko and then Shamir.  Most of Essilor and Hoya's "technology" has been trying to avoid paying patent fees to Seiko and Zeiss (who own the base free-form patents).  Essilor and Hoya have lost their court cases, they have to pay Seiko and Zeiss anyway, so much of what is "new" to them has been seen in Seiko, Rodenstock, Shamir and Zeiss lenses for many many years.  Since about 1997 to be exact. 

I still have not worn a Essilor or Hoya lens that offers the distance clarity the Rodenstock Multigressiv 2 did 14 years ago.  Big doesn't mean necessarily better.

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