# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  Dr. recommended Varilux Comfort/Receirved Essilor Ovation

## jstmee

I received a perscription from my eye doctor for Varilux Comfort, High Index 1.67 I went to a different place to have my perscription filled.  I did not know at the time that there are different brands of progressive lenses and how much of a difference they could make.  This is my first pair. After having some trouble I began to do some research.  The lenses I received are Essilor Ovation Poly Transition.  They are very heavy and my eyes will start hurting after having them on for a couple of hours.  Now I don't know if I should go back to my eye doctor or to the place that filled my perscription.  Is there that much of a difference in the two brands? Any suggestions would be helpful.

jstmee

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## Chris Ryser

> *Any suggestions would be helpful.* 
> jstmee


These lenses, all come with a non adapt warranty. Go back to your doctor and have him make something that you will like and tolerate.

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## francisOD

I agree...Go back to your doctor.  The transition feature is also available with the product your doctor recommended if you want that feature.  Transition is a great feature...the only negative thing I can say about it is that is does not turn as dark in a car because of the UV blocking of your windshield.  The 1.67 index is higher that the poly index of 1.59 which means your glasses should be thinner if surfaced in a similar manner.  The coatings protecting your glasses from scratching are also more effective on the 1.67 than on the poly.  In other words, poly will tend to scratch more than what your doctor recommended.  Glasses such as these are expensive and protecting your investment with premium coatings is a good investment.  The other feature that you may look into is the anti-glare or anti-reflection coating.  Not only will it eliminate glare giving you better, more comfortable vision but it will double the useful life of the transition which tends to slow down after about 2 years of use normally.  4 years with AR coating.  Good luck.

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## shellrob

First, this is your first progressive lens and any first time progressive wearer is going to get a headache while adapting to the lenses. It doesn't matter what type of progressive it is. Have you worn glasses before at all? The heaviness may or may not be the lenses, could be the frame as well. The lenses you received are good lenses. Just because the doctor wrote a certain manuf on the prescription doesn't mean squat. They shouldn't do that anyhow, it's ridiculous unless they get some kind of kick back by selling those lenses. If you question if they're right, go back to the Optician that made them, have them double check everything and if everything turns out ok, have them explain better to you how the lenses work and what to expect.Then...give the glasses a chance.

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## francisOD

Shellrob, I have to completly disagree with you regarding always getting headaches with first pair of progressives.  We call patients 1 week after pick up on new progressives and it is less than 5% of patients who have headaches.  Usually these get better with 24-48 hours.  We only sell premium progressives like Gradal top and Nikon I and W so this may be a reason why we do not have the same headache experience but to bluntly say everyone who has a first pair of progressive,no matter what brand, gets a headache is out of touch with reality.  Anyone else out there report headaches or lack there of on new progressives?:hammer:

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## shellrob

OK, maybe I should have said a lot instead of all. My bad. However, you said that you call after a week of them having them. That's the key right there, but I bet if you called the day after a first timer picked them up, your % would increase. See, after a week, they love them so much that they forget about the headaches they had.

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## paremyd

Go back to your doctor and bring in all the supporting documents to have him/her help you to troubleshoot your problems.  Also bring your old glasses to help him know what you wore in the past.  

Just understand that it will take the doctor some time to figure out the problem.  You definitely didn't get what was recommended!

If you go back to the dispensing place, they will tell you to go back to your doctor anyways.

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## C-10

Go back to who you purchases your eyewear from, they are the one who sold you the eyewear they should be the ones to find out what is wrong with them. If they cant find out they will send you back to the Dr.

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## Jim Stone

> I received a perscription from my eye doctor for Varilux Comfort, High Index 1.67 I went to a different place to have my perscription filled. I did not know at the time that there are different brands of progressive lenses and how much of a difference they could make. This is my first pair. After having some trouble I began to do some research. The lenses I received are Essilor Ovation Poly Transition. They are very heavy and my eyes will start hurting after having them on for a couple of hours. Now I don't know if I should go back to my eye doctor or to the place that filled my perscription. Is there that much of a difference in the two brands? Any suggestions would be helpful.
> 
> jstmee


Polycarb in not very good for correcting vision. The only reason so much is sold now is grand marketing sceems. It IS cheaper than high index, but not very good. Try some NON polycarb lenses and you are sure to see more clearly!

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## francisOD

> Polycarb in not very good for correcting vision. The only reason so much is sold now is grand marketing sceems. It IS cheaper than high index, but not very good. Try some NON polycarb lenses and you are sure to see more clearly!


My sentiment exactly.  As to where to go...I would start with the optical but you may have a hard time.  If you do, ask for a refund and see the doctor.  It is not very fair to dump bad glasses on the doctor if he did not make them and you (or the optical you chose) did not follow his recommendation.  It could be an RX error which the dr. is responsible for but after that, it is a product issue and as Jim Stone mentionned, polycarb is not the best material out there.  Good luck.

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## fjpod

I for one feel we should not give consumers advice like this. "Go here. No, go there. He should have done this...no, that."

Not knowing the real details of the case, it is unprofessional conduct, IMHO, to offer up solutions. It is even more unprofessional to blame one party or the other, or to propose that one party is more capable of solving the problem then the other.

Consumers with problems should be directed back to the provider/s from whence they came.  Period.

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## For-Life

> I for one feel we should not give consumers advice like this. "Go here. No, go there. He should have done this...no, that."
> 
> Not knowing the real details of the case, it is unprofessional conduct, IMHO, to offer up solutions. It is even more unprofessional to blame one party or the other, or to propose that one party is more capable of solving the problem then the other.
> 
> Consumers with problems should be directed back to the provider/s from whence they came. Period.


exactly

We uses these consumers to try to prove to each other that we are smart and win a debate.

WE ARE NOT HELPING THE CONSUMER!

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## Happylady

We have no idea what this person's prescription is but I am guessing it isn't light if the doctor is recommending 1.67. We don't know if he/she has an AR. The patient said they were heavy, but we know that poly is a light weight material.

Several of you have said that poly isn't the best material for optics, but neither is 1.67. Without knowing what he was wearing before and his rx it is hard to say if the poly is causing problems.

I had a woman call me a couple of days ago with problems with her first progressive. She told me her eyes hurt when she used them on the computer. After more discussion I learned that she was trying to see computer distance through the top of her lenses rather then use the middle. His problem could be something like this, but we just don't have enough information to know.

My point is with the little information we have it is impossible to know what the problem or solution is here. He needs to first go back to the optical and have them check them out again and talk to him about what his problems are.

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## For-Life

> We have no idea what this person's prescription is but I am guessing it isn't light if the doctor is recommending 1.67. We don't know if he/she has an AR. The patient said they were heavy, but we know that poly is a light weight material.
> 
> Several of you have said that poly isn't the best material for optics, but neither is 1.67. Without knowing what he was wearing before and his rx it is hard to say if the poly is causing problems.
> 
> I had a woman call me a couple of days ago with problems with her first progressive. She told me her eyes hurt when she used them on the computer. After more discussion I learned that she was trying to see computer distance through the top of her lenses rather then use the middle. His problem could be something like this, but we just don't have enough information to know.
> 
> My point is with the little information we have it is impossible to know what the problem or solution is here. He needs to first go back to the optical and have them check them out again and talk to him about what his problems are.


Exactly

We have not looked at if it is a fit, measurement or rx problem, and we cannot because we need to see this person.

So instead of clouding the consumer's head with solutions that may not work lets encourage the one solution we know has a chance of working, and that is going back to the dispenser.

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## Jim Stone

> I for one feel we should not give consumers advice like this. "Go here. No, go there. He should have done this...no, that."
> 
> Not knowing the real details of the case, it is unprofessional conduct, IMHO, to offer up solutions. It is even more unprofessional to blame one party or the other, or to propose that one party is more capable of solving the problem then the other.
> 
> Consumers with problems should be directed back to the provider/s from whence they came. Period.


I think that some of us needs to inform everyone we can about the lack of visual accuity with polycarb products. It has nothing to do with RX or fit. See poly is a bad product period. So the people standing to profit form poly have done a remarkable job, no doubt selling the product. I wouldn't sell poly to a one eyed person. Why? Because they need good vision in their one eye more than a 2 eyed person. Poly is crap. PURE crap!  Come on, let's own up to it.   Look, now they are selling poly and calling it HIGH IMPACT. Problem is, the "high impact" poly is thinner than the safety poly. How much can consumers be missled. ARE YOU GOING TO BE A PART OF THIS?

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## For-Life

> I think that some of us needs to inform everyone we can about the lack of visual accuity with polycarb products. It has nothing to do with RX or fit. See poly is a bad product period. So the people standing to profit form poly have done a remarkable job, no doubt selling the product. I wouldn't sell poly to a one eyed person. Why? Because they need good vision in their one eye more than a 2 eyed person. Poly is crap. PURE crap! Come on, let's own up to it. Look, now they are selling poly and calling it HIGH IMPACT. Problem is, the "high impact" poly is thinner than the safety poly. How much can consumers be missled. ARE YOU GOING TO BE A PART OF THIS?


I have worn poly.  If you get a poly has a clean processing you get a much better product.

I have work poly, 1.5, 1.56, 1.67, 1.6 and trivex.  I cannot tell the difference between them.

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## Jim Stone

> I have worn poly. If you get a poly has a clean processing you get a much better product.
> 
> I have work poly, 1.5, 1.56, 1.67, 1.6 and trivex. I cannot tell the difference between them.


Too many problems. I bet you can't.

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## Happylady

> I think that some of us needs to inform everyone we can about the lack of visual accuity with polycarb products. It has nothing to do with RX or fit. See poly is a bad product period. So the people standing to profit form poly have done a remarkable job, no doubt selling the product. I wouldn't sell poly to a one eyed person. Why? Because they need good vision in their one eye more than a 2 eyed person. Poly is crap. PURE crap! Come on, let's own up to it. Look, now they are selling poly and calling it HIGH IMPACT. Problem is, the "high impact" poly is thinner than the safety poly. How much can consumers be missled. ARE YOU GOING TO BE A PART OF THIS?


I have poly glasses now and they are great. My prescription sunglasses are cr-39 and I can't tell the difference. My husband has poly and cr-39. He likes the poly, he says they are much lighter. My daughter has had poly and 1.6 and done fine with both.

I sell plenty of poly with NO problems at all. I might see a problem with it a couple times a year, maybe.

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## Jubilee

I get so tired of the Poly is bad stuff. If the best optics were the only consideration, then everyone would be in crown glass.

Obviously there is more to consider.

1.67 is not great optically either. Should that material be put out to pasture as well as any other higher index materials?

While I won't use poly on high cyls and the more extreme RXs, I do use it often, and have only one non adapt for the year.

I don't use a lot of Hoya product, and it isn't as readily available in my area. So the option are primarily Glass, Cr-39, poly and 1.67 in any type of progressive. Doesn't give me a lot of choice if I want to do Trivex.

Most people don't want to pay the $$ for 1.67 for a +/- 3.oo lens.

Cassandra

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## Jubilee

I was of the understanding that when the doctor writes a certain brand (ie Varilux) on the rx, that this is more of a recommendation rather than a prescribed element. 

My doctor may write on the notes coming out of the office a brand, but typically it boils down to a designation on which area we need to enhance best. When we write the rx out for the patient, we don't include those notes. We don't even put on their a style, unless it is a case where we know a PAL won't work, etc. 

If a patient comes in with a brand recommended, I might use that one, I may not.. depending upon my own assessment.

What if she was put into the physio 360 instead, and still having issues? Or the Ipseo? 

Cassandra

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## AWTECH

As a follow up to Jubilee:


> I get so tired of the Poly is bad stuff. If the best optics were the only consideration, then everyone would be in crown glass.


Poly can be good or bad.  There are different methods for producing polycarbonate lenses.  The raw material and the injection equipment and proceedures can create lenses with very different quality optics.  It is possible to have decent optics with poly.

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## Chris Ryser

> *First, this is your first progressive lens and any first time progressive wearer is going to get a headache while adapting to the lenses. It doesn't matter what type of progressive it is.*


shellrob....................could you please elaborate a little more..............*why every progressive wearer gets a headche to start with ???*

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## Jim Stone

OH!....Now I'm getting a headache!

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## fjpod

> I think that some of us needs to inform everyone we can about the lack of visual accuity with polycarb products. It has nothing to do with RX or fit. See poly is a bad product period. So the people standing to profit form poly have done a remarkable job, no doubt selling the product. I wouldn't sell poly to a one eyed person. Why? Because they need good vision in their one eye more than a 2 eyed person. Poly is crap. PURE crap! Come on, let's own up to it. Look, now they are selling poly and calling it HIGH IMPACT. Problem is, the "high impact" poly is thinner than the safety poly. How much can consumers be missled. ARE YOU GOING TO BE A PART OF THIS?


Yes, consumers need to be educated...but on a case by case basis in your office or shop. In a setting where you have all the information and can physically examine the patient. 

The poly issue is typical. Poly is not a perfect material. There is no agreement among professionals. How can a particular consumer be helped in an online forumn like this with diverging opinions? They are going to have to shrug their shoulders and pick one camp or the other. *Their chances or getting appropriate materials and a good fit are much better in a face to face encounter with an optometrist or optician.* 

Everything has relative risks and benefits. The true professional helps the consumer weigh the pros and cons of each aspect of eyewear to best match the consumers needs. You just can't say, "Poly is bad for everybody". 

BTW, I consider myself an optical professional. I know just about everything about abbe, index, impact resistance, etc. as it relates to poly. I wear poly full time. My Rx is about -3.50 with a 2.00 add.

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## Diane

> Yes, consumers need to be educated...but on a case by case basis in your office or shop. In a setting where you have all the information and can physically examine the patient. 
> 
> The poly issue is typical. Poly is not a perfect material. There is no agreement among professionals. How can a particular consumer be helped in an online forumn like this with diverging opinions? They are going to have to shrug their shoulders and pick one camp or the other. *Their chances or getting appropriate materials and a good fit are much better in a face to face encounter with an optometrist or optician.* 
> 
> Everything has relative risks and benefits. The true professional helps the consumer weigh the pros and cons of each aspect of eyewear to best match the consumers needs. You just can't say, "Poly is bad for everybody". 
> 
> BTW, I consider myself an optical professional. I know just about everything about abbe, index, impact resistance, etc. as it relates to poly. I wear poly full time. My Rx is about -3.50 with a 2.00 add.


Good advice.

There are good points and bad points to each material...the consumer should go back to their eye care professional.  Besides, if he/she was concerned with recommendation (that's all it is), why did he/she go elsewhere in the first place?  

Diane

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## shellrob

I corrected my original post by saying that a lot(instead of all) of patients get a headache with a first time progressive. It's common and likely to happen if you've never worn them before. Same goes with a new rx, ft bifocal. Great if the patient doesn't get a headache, but normal if they do. 


This patient stated that they have never worn progressive lenses before and is having headaches. They're questioning if the headache is because the Optician put them in a different progressive other than what was written on the rx. I simply meant that a headache is perfectly normal in a first time progressive wearer and doesn't matter what brand of progressive. Does everyone get a headache? No. But it happens a lot. I then recommended the patient go back to where they got them, have them checked and if everything checks out ok, give the glasses a chance, the headache may and probably will subside with use. 

Howwever, someone said above, we don't know all the facts in this case and we probably shouldn't say anything at all.

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## shellrob

> Polycarb in not very good for correcting vision. The only reason so much is sold now is grand marketing sceems. It IS cheaper than high index, but not very good. Try some NON polycarb lenses and you are sure to see more clearly!


I wear polycarbonate and happily read the 20/15 row with my glasses. How's that for correcting vision?

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## jstmee

Thank you all so much for your replies! The reason I went to a diffent optical place for my prescription is because the office where I had my eyes checked did not have a very wide frame selection. I went back to my doctor and he told me to go back and tell them to fill the prescription like he asked. He said I would have better success with the Viralux 1.67 and this would also stop the swim effect that I experience when I look across a room and they would be thinner and lighter. He also added a prism to help the words stop moving around when I read. So I went to the makers and they said they would gladly change the lenses but that the Ovation lenses are a new product very comprable to the Veralux. She said the Ovation has a wider vision span in the middle (sorry I don't remember all the technical terms). She said that the prism will stop the swim effect. She said that the Varilux Comfort 1.67 has a narrower vision field than the Ovation and that I would have to go to the Verilux Panaromic to get a wider field. She said that some doctors want to get you used to the Varilux so you will continue to use the more expenses lenses. She advised me to go with the Ovation with the added prism and see how that works. If it doesn't then we will try something else. I know it is hard to give me advice with so little information. I would give you my prescription, but I left it with the optical place and forgot to get a copy. Could you just give me your opinion on this: Does the Ovation poly have a wider vision field than the Varilux Comfort 1.67? And what is the difference in the Ovation poly and the Ovation 167?

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## Ory

> She said that some doctors want to get you used to the Varilux so you will continue to use the more expenses lenses.


That has to be one of the most asinine things I've ever heard.  The doctor who wrote the prescription was aware that he won't get any money from you but still told you to get 1.67 Varilux comfort.

While I don't agree in general with specifying brand type or index for lenses on a prescription, there are rare cases when it may be advisable.  For this optician(?) to twice steer you away from what you doctor has _prescribed_ is not only questionable business practice but quite possibly misconduct.  Where I practice, opticians are not allowed to modify a prescription unilaterally.

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## Bill Mahnke

You actually received a newer and better lens design. For the record the Varilux Comfort design is over 25 years old and was first introduced in America in the mid 90's. Polycarbonate is optically a poor choice, but I doubt if that's causing your problem. As everyone else has said, go back and discuss your problems with the doctor/dispenser.........

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## Judy Canty

Consumers are allowed to post on the Board, as long as the posts concern general eyecare related topics. However please be aware that any questions that involve diagnosing specific eyecare and eyewear problems *are not appropriate* for an online discussion forum. These kinds of questions should be discussed with a qualified eyecare professional who has examined you and is familiar with your situation. Posts asking for diagnostic help will be closed or removed.

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## Jim Stone

> Consumers are allowed to post on the Board, as long as the posts concern general eyecare related topics. However please be aware that any questions that involve diagnosing specific eyecare and eyewear problems *are not appropriate* for an online discussion forum. These kinds of questions should be discussed with a qualified eyecare professional who has examined you and is familiar with your situation. Posts asking for diagnostic help will be closed or removed.


Is this a prerecorded message? You keep saying this same stuff.  These people are seeking help.  How 'bout we help them.  You scaird that they will discover your pricing structure? No worst than the gas companies. No worse than a hardware store.  Put your fears to rest.  Help these people.

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## Judy Canty

No, not pre-recorded...just quoting the posting guidelines that we all agreed to abide by when we registered to post here.

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## Jim Stone

> No, not pre-recorded...just quoting the posting guidelines that we all agreed to abide by when we registered to post here.


Be it known NOW. I have changed my mind.  I no longer agree to anything that stiffles my right to free speach.  As long as I am jim stone of the USA, I will say what I please!

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## Judy Canty

Fine by me.  I'm only a moderator.  Steve makes the final call.  It's his board.

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## Jim Stone

> Fine by me. I'm only a moderator. Steve makes the final call. It's his board.


WWWOOOOO Im scaird! NOW!

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## OPTIDONN

Hey Jimmy boy guess what? You do live in the USA and here in the USA there are certain things called rules and laws. If you choose not to live by them you have that right, however you also have the right to face the consequences. Judy is doing what she is supposed to be doing and thats monitor the post and make sure all posters are following the guidelines. It's amazing that my three year old daughter shows more respect and common sense than you:hammer:

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## Jim Stone

> Hey Jimmy boy guess what? You do live in the USA and here in the USA there are certain things called rules and laws. If you choose not to live by them you have that right, however you also have the right to face the consequences. Judy is doing what she is supposed to be doing and thats monitor the post and make sure all posters are following the guidelines. It's amazing that my three year old daughter shows more respect and common sense than you:hammer:


Who pulled YOUR string? BOY!:hammer: :cheers: :idea: :drop: :finger:

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## Cindy Hamlin

Just a friendly reminder:

I understand your feel you have a right to free speech, but that doesn't include denegrading and name calling. I direct you to the optiboard posting guidelines (they are located under the FAQ link at the top left of every page, FYI). My red and bold.




> This is a *public* discussion forum. It is not acceptable to post messages which offer to give private information on companies and individuals via e-mail or phone. If you have something to say - say it here and in public. This way, the affected party has a fair chance of seeing and responding to the message. Also, limit yourself to the facts. *Name-calling and innuendo are not appropriate uses of this forum.*


Please refrain from either.

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## Jim Stone

> Jim, 
> I understand your feel you have a right to free speech, but that doesn't include denegrading and name calling. I direct you to the optiboard posting guidelines (they are located under the FAQ link at the top left of every page, FYI). My red and bold.
> 
> 
> 
> Please refrain from either.


Why you bustin MY butt for name calling. If you can read, you will see HE called me BOY first!. That's all I called him back. 
OK. Now. Somebody gotta cool this down. Obviouslly a vindictive natured person cannot. (Sposed to be fair, do not let your natural vindictive nature get the best of you). 

Here I go being the bigger guy. 
*******I am sorry.*******

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## Cindy Hamlin

Since this thread has continued it slide away from the original subject into personal attacks and he said/she said I will close it to let all parties have some time to cool off.  

Feel free after you have thought about it and cleared away the animosity to post again.

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## Steve Machol

> WWWOOOOO Im scaird! NOW!


You do NOT have a right to post whatever you want on OptiBoard. If you don't like it, you can leave. That IS your right. :D

Any further outbursts and you will no longer be welcome on OptiBoard.

The Mods have full permissions to ban you if they deem it appropriate. You can act civilized and abide by the rules of this forum, or you can leave. The choice is now yours.

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