# Conversation and Fun > Just Conversation >  Talk about your big lies

## chm2023

George Tenet gets Medal of Freedom, HMOG!!!  This medal is awarded to "individuals the President deems to have made especially meritorious contributions to the _security...of the the United States_"  Per the MOF website it is "given only after careful thought, always sparingly so as _not to debase its currency"._

This is unbelievable--Tenet headed the CIA for seven years.  That agency has been roundly condemned for our country being blind-sided by 9/11.  And Tenet famously advised Bush that WMDs were a "slam-dunk" in Iraq.

How does this deserve a Medal of Freedom?  Debase indeed.:hammer:

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## rinselberg

A gutsy call ...

Mercy, Agent Chm2023! It takes a LOT of hands to make a screw-up as big as Nine-Eleven. I thought it was a gutsy call by President Bush, on a decision that is about as important to the country as Major League Baseball's MVP awards. I would guess that George Tenet probably doesn't stack up all that badly compared to some previous winners of the Presidential Medal of Freedom. By the way, hasn't the Bernard Kerik episode been an absolute crack-up! They just about had to scrape me off the floor here, after MSNBC Countdown news anchor Keith Olbermann segued into his Bernard Kerick segment with the tag line Weekend at Bernie's. If I could just find a photo on the Web of Bernie K in his New York Yankees cap!


Bernard Kerik: The holiday gift that keeps on giving ...

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*Wewelsburg: Castle of Evil.* See my recent photo essay *Talking Heads!* at http://www.optiboard...

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## chm2023

> A gutsy call ...
> 
> Mercy, Agent Chm2023! It takes a LOT of hands to make a screw-up as big as Nine-Eleven. I thought it was a gutsy call by President Bush, on a decision that is about as important to the country as Major League Baseball's MVP awards. I would guess that George Tenet probably doesn't stack up all that badly compared to some previous winners of the Presidential Medal of Freedom. By the way, hasn't the Bernard Kerik episode been an absolute crack-up! They just about had to scrape me off the floor here, after MSNBC Countdown news anchor Keith Olbermann segued into his Bernard Kerick segment with the tag line Weekend at Bernie's. If I could just find a photo on the Web of Bernie K in his New York Yankees cap!
> 
> 
> Bernard Kerik: The holiday gift that keeps on giving ...
> 
> -----------
> 
> *Wewelsburg: Castle of Evil.* Take the complete photo tour at http://www.wwiirelics.com/wevelsburg.htm. See my brief photo essay Talking Heads! at http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...&postcount=552


I think an honor like this should be given to folks whose contributions are not questionable. I'm not suggesting we hang the man, but giving him the nation's highest civilian honor, come one. I looked at the list of people who have won and I don't see anyone on that list whose credentials are so compromised. I believe Bush gave it to him to reward him for his loyalty--his loyalty to Bush, which is not the same thing as loyalty to his country, a concept that Bush seems to be unable to grasp.

Kerik is unfortunate, but this stuff happens.  The interesting story behind this is the story of the guy who Kerik replaced.  The original Chief (whose name escapes me) was widely lauded for his work cleaning up the City.  Rudy fired him because he didn't like the fact that the press et al gave this guy credit instead of him.  Big bruhaha at the time.  This of course preceded 9/11 when Rudy morphed into the Messiah.

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## Pete Hanlin

I think an honor like this should be given to folks whose contributions are not questionable...  ...I looked at the list of people who have won and I don't see anyone on that list whose credentials are so compromised.
As I recall, LBJ was awarded the Medal of Freedom- along with the Rev. Jesse Jackson.  While I'm sure you wouldn't question the "contributions" of these individuals, I would suggest that there are many who do (myself among them).

If I'm not mistaken, Tenet was appointed to his CIA post by President Clinton- so if he agreed with the current admin's policies, its not like it came from some blind allegiance to Bush.  If Tenet has a parallel in politics, I think it must be President Jimmy Carter.  Both were honorable men with solid accomplishments and dedication to public service, but both were unfortunate enough to serve during times marked by failure and crisis (in the President's case, the oil embargo and the Iran Hostage situation- in Tenet's, 9/11).

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## Robert Martellaro

The thing with spooks, even the head spook, is that we may never know the real reason for medals that are awarded. Sometimes the action is so sensitive that the recognition of service to the country itself has to be kept secret. Maybe we'll know for sure in fifty years or so. 

But I can't make any sense out of Bremer's medal. Bremer led the call for a complete breakup of the Iraqi army, one of the biggest blunders of the war, while it was General Garner who wanted to keep the army, minus the Baath party troops, on the payroll. By the time Bremer saw the light and changed back to Garners line of thinking the situation was out of control. So Garner gets the axe and Bremer gets the medal. What kind of message does that send to the leaders of our armed forces? 

Robert

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## rep

> George Tenet gets Medal of Freedom, HMOG!!! This medal is awarded to "individuals the President deems to have made especially meritorious contributions to the _security...of the the United States_" Per the MOF website it is "given only after careful thought, always sparingly so as _not to debase its currency"._
> 
> This is unbelievable--Tenet headed the CIA for seven years. That agency has been roundly condemned for our country being blind-sided by 9/11. And Tenet famously advised Bush that WMDs were a "slam-dunk" in Iraq.
> 
> How does this deserve a Medal of Freedom? Debase indeed.:hammer:


What you will never understand is that George Tenet most probably has prevented many many terrorist acts in this country before and since 9/11. 

George Bush knows what he has done and I am positve he has a lot more insight and knowledge than you regarding weather he deserves it or not.

Your Icon is appropriate,

Rep

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## shanbaum

> What you will never understand is that George Tenet most probably has prevented many many terrorist acts in this country before and since 9/11.


So, how does one get on the mailing list? You're obviously privy to secret knowledge of which many of us are deprived. How can we be expected to understand, when we're kept in the dark?

Having said that, if one looks at the list of recipients of this particular award, it's clear that there are two kinds of recipients: political ones, and persons who have distinguished themselves in almost _any_ way. One has to marvel at any list on which Doris Day, Fred Rogers, and Tommy Franks appear together.




> George Bush knows what he has done and I am positve he has a lot more insight and knowledge...


Any statement that so begins, cannot end well...

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## chm2023

> What you will never understand is that George Tenet most probably has prevented many many terrorist acts in this country before and since 9/11. 
> 
> George Bush knows what he has done and I am positve he has a lot more insight and knowledge than you regarding weather he deserves it or not.
> 
> Your Icon is appropriate,
> 
> Rep


But you of course do understand. And this superior understanding stems from what? 

PS: it's very hard to seriously accept someone being "positive" about grave matters of government security when that person doesn't know the difference between "weather" and "whether'. Perhaps you should set some more modest intellectual goals before you start lecturing to others on their lack of knowledge.

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## rep

> But you of course do understand. And this superior understanding stems from what? 
> 
> PS: it's very hard to seriously accept someone being "positive" about grave matters of government security when that person doesn't know the difference between "weather" and "whether'. Perhaps you should set some more modest intellectual goals before you start lecturing to others on their lack of knowledge.


What should be easy to understand for anyone, but an English critic and Drama King, is that there was no mass uproar from the left regarding the award.(other than yourselves of course, because you were not on the list) 

That tells most people that senate and congressional office holders know (behind closed doors) much more than your wild speculation regarding " big lies". It's called common sense. Try it - you will find a whole new world. Yes most liberals are deprived of it. Kerry supporters were completely devoid of it. 

As has already been stated to help those with long and short term memory loss, Tenet was appointed by your mentor and morals icon intern social director William Jefferson Clinton. Since Bush kept him, he must have been pretty good at what he did. Even after 9/11 he wasn't fired by Bush, nor was his resignation called for by your choice personal of presidential timber John Kerry. ( If you remember he call for everybody else, but Tenet (I guess he was on the mailing list too). 

And as others, on the mailing list, have also previously stated, to lay 9/11 totally at his feet is absurd.

It's tough to seriously accept someone being the slightest bit concerned about grave matters of government security when they advocated and probably voted for this years democratic presidental ticket. 

Rep

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## chm2023

> What should be easy to understand for anyone, but an English critic and Drama King, is that there was no mass uproar from the left regarding the award.(other than yourselves of course, because you were not on the list) 
> 
> That tells most people that senate and congressional office holders know (behind closed doors) much more than your wild speculation regarding " big lies". It's called common sense. Try it - you will find a whole new world. Yes most liberals are deprived of it. Kerry supporters were completely devoid of it.
> 
> As has already been stated to help those with long and short term memory loss, Tenet was appointed by your mentor and morals icon intern social director William Jefferson Clinton. Since Bush kept him, he must have been pretty good at what he did. Even after 9/11 he wasn't fired by Bush, nor was his resignation called for by your choice personal of presidential timber John Kerry. ( If you remember he call for everybody else, but Tenet (I guess he was on the mailing list too). 
> 
> And as others, on the mailing list, have also previously stated, to lay 9/11 totally at his feet is absurd.
> 
> It's tough to seriously accept someone being the slightest bit concerned about grave matters of government security when they advocated and probably voted for this years democratic presidental ticket. 
> ...


Do not presume that Clinton is my mentor or morals icon. I judge the man as a deeply flawed human being, who behaved shamefully while in office, yet one who accomplished a great deal of good and whose philosophy of government is pretty well aligned with my own.

(WHAT? Someone neither a devil nor an angel--jeepers, how will this work in the coloring book???)

How dare you assume you know my beliefs? Based on your posts, I scarcely believe you can cross the street by yourself, never mind gleaning the specifics of someone else's complex set of principles and values based on a handful of posts. What a foolish notion!

Again, try to see the distinction: because I say the award was ill-advised does not mean I lay 9/11 at Tenet's feet. I refuse to play this idiot's game: either Tenet is a villiam or a hero. No, he's neither. But I suggest to celebrate a highly questionable performance at the CIA shows very poor judgement. I look to the 9/11 commisssion report, not having your insight (which I guess involves some sort of shiny decoder ring) into the secret workings of the hill, and see a lot of areas where Tenet did not cover himself with glory. Any reasonable person would do the same. 

And of course I know who appointed Tenet. How is this relevant? Try to wrap your mind around this--I can be critical of a decision made by Clinton. Ask yourself if you can be critical of a decision made by Bush. 

And please try to behave with a bit more dignity--I hold my view because I was not on the list? How stupid is this remark? And your remark that all Kerry supporters are devoid of common sense--do you not see how remarkably naive this is? Your whole tone doesn't rise above the level of school yard taunts. It's amazing to me that such mentality exists--I guess I lead a charmed life. I have many friends with whom I disagree, but it's a challenge to debate them, not a depressing chore. 

Here's a New Year's resolution for you: Try to develop some worldviews that can't be fully expressed on a bumper sticker.

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## rinselberg

Reminds me of "The Blue Max" --!



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*Wewelsburg: Castle of Evil.* Take the complete photo tour at http://www.wwiirelics.com/wevelsburg.htm. See my brief photo essay Talking Heads! at http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...&postcount=552

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## chm2023

:p Rules to Live by; avoid at all costs Ursula Andress movies, oy!!!!

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## shanbaum

Good point.  Tenant (and Mister Rogers) get the Medal of Freedom, but, Ursula Andress?  Nothin'!

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## shanbaum

Or - were you being _critical?_

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## shanbaum

'Cause if you _were_ - well, you can say what you want about rep, but you start dissin' Ursula Andress, and, and... well, you just better not go dissin' Ursula Andress!

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## chip anderson

It and The Carpetbaggers were George Peppard's finest work.

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## hcjilson

I think, if I'm not mistaken,that the only three Optiboarders old enough to remember Ursula Andress in the Playboy spread have contributed in a row to this thread!  Way to go guys! :bbg:  :bbg:

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## chm2023

> 'Cause if you _were_ - well, you can say what you want about rep, but you start dissin' Ursula Andress, and, and... well, you just better not go dissin' Ursula Andress!


Critical? Moi? I remain suspect of any actress whose publicity shots all depict her in some stage of undress--usually looking as if someone has ripped part of her blouse (then mysteriously called away for an emergency phone call) and but for the grace of God not quite a Janet Jackson-esque exposure.  A cheesy routine, that, I am sorry to tell you, does not place her in the pantheon that includes Mr Rogers.  You try staying on the air for 25 years with a handful of moth ridden puppets and several hundred cardigans--take THAT Ursula!!!!

Do you suppose she is still alive? And if so, still loosing her garments in that disconcerting manner? Not a pretty thought, that........

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