# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  Pixel Empower progressive! feedback?

## Lazarus

Anyone try or dispense the Empower electronic progressive lens yet? A few labs I use are all having trouble producing them without delays and I had two orders come back with craze or defect in lens. Anyone know a lab we can send to who is not having trouble with it? Im starting to wonder if Pixel hasnt got this mousetrap perfected yet and maybe released it prematurely? Anyone have any experiences with the product? tia
 :Mad:

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## CalCal

I just got my display unit yesterday.  Which lab are you using?  I am planning to use Luzrene.

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## optical24/7

Tried it at VEW, didn't work for me. I'm waiting...

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## Java99

I'm getting mine next month, also planning to use Luzerne.  Which lab are you using?

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## Lazarus

Tried them , Pech and Southern.  Not happy with result from any of them on this product. No problem with them on other orders. If had to do over again, I would have made Pixel make me or staff a pair to let us test for a month before we were forced to put in display. This way we could get an idea of process time as well as test function of product over a longer period.

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## rdcoach5

I hate to say I told you so, but....

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## L.A.B.

We use Luzerne. No problems  or delays with making glasses, however, I have seen some issues with near zone not working at times. Apparently, they are working on resolving this. Regarding the product,  I used our free pair to make an office demo with plano distance/+2.00 add. Our Dr.'s also purchased them for themselves and for me. I love the distance/intermediate area but dislike the near zone. It's only good for brief use (looking at a menu or shopping)so when reading for longer than 5 minutes, I go back to my Autographs!

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## Dave E

When they where out here they would not let us try them out first and from the sound of it they just do not work that great.

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## L.A.B.

They do work. I love them when the near is in the "off" mode because the distance and intermediate area is wider than anything I have ever had and for work, it is great. The near zone is just more apparent than my Autographs so I to sit down and read a book is not so great. But, they do work.

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## Dave E

> They do work. I love them when the near is in the "off" mode because the distance and intermediate area is wider than anything I have ever had and for work, it is great. The near zone is just more apparent than my Autographs so I to sit down and read a book is not so great. But, they do work.


So what your saying is that you would spend $1400.00 on these and then 300.00 to 500.00 on a nother pair for reading glasses . Like I said I do not think these are that great then pt would expect them to work better than a Autograph lens after all they just spent $1400.00 on one pair of glasses

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## L.A.B.

I am giving feedback on my experience with the product, that is all. It works extremely well for me 90% of the time, since most of my close work is at intermediate range and that intermediate area of usage is much larger than my autographs. As for the cost, we charge $1250 and it is not my place to judge whether or not someone should spend the money on this product or not. I simply educate our patients and they can make their own decision and "yes" some people find it absolutely worth the money they spend. It is not for everyone but there is a place for it, just like other products.

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## Steve Machol

Just thought I'd add this NY Times article about these lenses in case you hadn't seen it: http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/...ectacle-glass/

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## Barry Santini

> So what your saying is that you would spend $1400.00 on these and then 300.00 to 500.00 on a nother pair for reading glasses . Like I said I do not think these are that great then pt would expect them to work better than a Autograph lens after all they just spent $1400.00 on one pair of glasses


What are you TALKIN' about???!?  People sepnd that amount and more on fancy trim packages, seats and navigation in their cars, that they never ever really fully utilize.

B

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## optilady1

My reps for pixel have so drunk the kool-aid, but my question is: Why aren't they wearing the Empower when they come to preach to me about them?

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## Judy Canty

> My reps for pixel have so drunk the kool-aid, but my question is: Why aren't they wearing the Empower when they come to preach to me about them?


Perhaps they don't need a multifocal yet?

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## optilady1

Both are over 50, maybe pushing 60

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## Fezz

Maybe it's not covered under their Eyemed/VSP plan?

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## Java99

> So what your saying is that you would spend $1400.00 on these and then 300.00 to 500.00 on a nother pair for reading glasses . Like I said I do not think these are that great then pt would expect them to work better than a Autograph lens after all they just spent $1400.00 on one pair of glasses


 I think one pair of glasses is rarely the right solution for anyone.  Why would it be any different with empower?

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## optilady1

You can't compair people spending money on glasses and spending money on car packages or phones and computers, because the perception of glasses hasn't changed for most people in the last 100 years.  

I know, I know, educate them blah, blah, blah.  You can talk till you are blue in the face, and the light bulb turns on in maybe one out of ten patients.  We all know that most patients need at least 3 pairs of glasses to work for their everyday needs, but God forbid anyone spend money on glasses, when they are spending 200 bucks a month on wireless or cable bills.  

I think the concept of the empower and the other ones like them are great, and probably very valuable to the average patient, never mind those who do task specific jobs, but when faced with the decision between a new pair of glasses and upgrading their old Iphone to the new Iphone, they ain't saving up for the Iphone.  

And yes, I know that some of you do very well with the higher end product.  But when you argue the value of a new frame vs old frame with a patient who owns a corvette, a boat, two homes, and everthing Steve Jobs ever invented, the idea of $1400 glasses makes me tired.

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## EyeCare Rich

> Maybe it's not covered under their Eyemed/VSP plan?


I can almost guarantee, the Aspex reps that are peddling these, don't have VSP.   :Tongue:

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## EyeCare Rich

> They do work. I love them when the near is in the "off" mode because the distance and intermediate area is wider than anything I have ever had and for work, it is great. The near zone is just more apparent than my Autographs so I to sit down and read a book is not so great. But, they do work.


This is interesting information, as the progression is supposed to be based on the Autograph II Lens.  I'm curious why it would be any different.  Thanks for your input on your usage.  Helps us all navigate the great sales pitch.

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## Lazarus

> Just thought I'd add this NY Times article about these lenses in case you hadn't seen it: http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/...ectacle-glass/


My strong hunch is that the people that wrote this and other articles have never actually worn the product for any significant amount of time if at all and are simply wow'ed by the concept.

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## Lazarus

> My reps for pixel have so drunk the kool-aid, but my question is: Why aren't they wearing the Empower when they come to preach to me about them?


Whether the rep wears them or not may or may not be relevant however , the real question is , why cant the ecp or staff try or wear the product first before having to commit to the several thousand dollars to put in the frames and product.  The maufacturer should be required to prove the product first before they require an account to put up any dollars. I will make it a point in the future to make sure companies physically prove their product and service first before laying down on dime just based on marketing and a look at some demos.

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## Fezz

> Whether the rep wears them or not may or may not be relevant however , the real question is , why cant the ecp or staff try or wear the product first before having to commit to the several thousand dollars to put in the frames and product.  The maufacturer should be required to prove the product first before they require an account to put up any dollars. I will make it a point in the future to make sure companies physically prove their product and service first before laying down on dime just based on marketing and a look at some demos.


Should you extend that same courtesy to your patients before they committ to the dollars that they may spend?

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## Judy Canty

> Should you extend that same courtesy to your patients before they committ to the dollars that they may spend?


  :Cool:

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## Lazarus

> Should you extend that same courtesy to your patients before they committ to the dollars that they may spend?


This is different in that its a new product and new concept. The other products I sell have been tested and worn by thousands of patients. When the Shamir rep wants me to switch my customers to Shamir lenses and out of Seiko, they give a voucher or two to try the product and show me how good it is. Me or my staff can be the guninea pig and test the quality before we start peddling it to hundreds of patients. I think we owe that to the patients to test the product for them first. I am only talking about testing one pair or two for quality and service before having to committ to four grand in frames. I wouldnt expect the manufacturer to commit this courtesy to me for future pairs after i tried one pair. So your analogy isnt applicable. Fezz, do you buy any other lens where they require you to buy 4k in frames upfront before you get to test the lens. I think not. Thats all im saying

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## rdcoach5

> Should you extend that same courtesy to your patients before they committ to the dollars that they may spend?


It's a riducuously expensive product and should only be marketed that way. Come on, it's a progressive that can be turned on to be a stronger progessive.?????? I can put on my old glasses that are a +1.25 add and then put on my new ones that are +2.50 add and I didn't have to flip a switch. same difference, almost. I don't get the allure of this product but then I don't have a smart phone, either. I'll stay in the dark ages I guess.

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## bob_f_aboc

So far, we have received 3 display units. All were badly damaged in shipping.  Now we are told that there are no more manufactured and they cannot give us a ship date for the 4th one.

Playing with the plano, +2.00 add pair the rep was using, I really don't see how these can be classified as a PAL.  It's more blended round (oval 12x20mm) seg over the electronic 'button'.

I finally received an answer after 4 months of asking.  The 'intermediate' is a whopping 5mm from fitting cross to the top of the add.

Maybe the display we were promised before Thanksgiving will finally show up some time in February.  I'm just glad it wasn't my money to jump on this bandwagon.

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## optilady1

> Whether the rep wears them or not may or may not be relevant however , the real question is , why cant the ecp or staff try or wear the product first before having to commit to the several thousand dollars to put in the frames and product.  The maufacturer should be required to prove the product first before they require an account to put up any dollars. I will make it a point in the future to make sure companies physically prove their product and service first before laying down on dime just based on marketing and a look at some demos.


I think it's absolutely relevant that my rep isn't wearing the product they sell.  If you come into my office telling me how these glasses are game changers, then I expect to hear stories from at least one of my two Aspex reps that explain how these glasses have changed their lives.  Every frame rep that I have that needs glasses wears the highest end frame from their line.  Every lab rep I have is wearing the latest and greatest lens product/ coating/ technology.  Why wouldn't they?  So the fact that neither of them are wearing their newest product says to me: Either a) that the company is too cheap to give them a deep discount on a pair, b) the reps don't see the value in them that they vomit out every time I see them, or c), the product really doesn't deliver everything it promises.  

When I tell my patients about high end products, I need to believe that there is truth in what I'm saying.  I never lie to my patients, or give false hope that some miracle product will do the impossible.  I didn't get to try them out at vision expo last year, so I personally have no real life experience with the product.  I also am not even close to being important enough at work to be the decider of what we order and don't order.  But I have had a handful of patients who asked me about them, and I had nothing to tell them other than what I've heard and read in the propaganda pamphlets.  

I will say this: I have no problem spending money on things that are beneficial to me or that I simply like.  I own thousands of dollars worth of high end or commercial quality kitchen products.  I understand that there are tons of patients who wouldn't think twice about spending 1400 dollars on a set of glasses.  But I think it's my duty to make sure they aren't spending that money on a useless fad that will be replaced in three years by an advanced free form design that will sell for half that will deliver twice what the empower promises.

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## J.P.

I have been dispensing emPower sense August of 2011, I have had no problems with my lab US Optical. They were actually the first lab to start the emPower lenses for trail runs in Virginia. Ralph and the gang there are great with getting the orders taken and getting them out and to me on time even if I ask for a rush job on one. 8 business days is the longest it has ever taken to get a job back from them and that was after they had a scratched lens and had to start over. 

I have had nothing but GREAT feedback from all of my patients that have purchased them, and I actually have a list of people who have come in for a demo and want them but are just waiting on their appointment to get a new RX. 

Responding to everyone else about the cost and such. My patients have not even blinked an eye at my price of $1,395.00 because those whom have purchased premium PAL's from me in the past it's not that much more in terms of Cost over Premium PAL's in a premium frames (About $150 cost difference). I agree with Berry, people spend this amount of money on things that they may need or that aren't even needed. When I see a family of 4 come into my office, all 4 have iPads, and then Mom and Dad complain about spending $100 after insurance on their child's glasses :Eek: , this is where reality needs to come into check!!! People who truly want better vision WILL pay for it, and I can prove it. And I don't just sell High end stuff in my office my biggest sellers are my low-end lens lines, and I have a few patients that have their "Task Specific" glasses and have also purchased emPower as well. 

My main Pixel rep wears emPower and her assoicate that I have met wears emPower. They stand behind it and I stand behind them. I even go as far as teaching my Pixel and Aspex reps new things every week about emPower. 

Everyone just needs to not be so closed minded about something new and different. Rome wasn't built in a day, and emPower isn't going to be easy to work with. You have to change yourself and how you do things in order to get the desired effect. If I didn't, I would just have a pretty emPower Display that collects dust instead of putting $$$ into my office. I used my voucher for a demo pair for my office, and I wear them regularly around the office and even at home, and I don't even need the Progressive lens, and I can see and tell about the added benefits of it. You just have to be willing to try it and not just look at the "$" attached to it. 

Basically what it boils down to is this, if you don't have the attitude or even the mindset to like it, then you'll never like it. It's just like Transitions, if a patient doesn't not like Transitions, for what ever reason no matter how big or small, you will NEVER talk them into wearing it. For dispensers, if you don't like a particular lens manufacture or AR, you'll never sell it, no matter how much the rep calls, emails, and stops by. You'll NEVER be talked into selling their product. If you don't like it, Fine, but don't down grade something you haven't even tried yourself. Yes there are a few bad cases of things here and there, but dosen't that happen with every new lens design we see (i.e. Shamir Autograph II Variable Seg). I had more problems with the Variable seg Autograph II and that's my #1 selling lens (The fixed of course), but I didn't bad mouth it like many people here are doing just because you have heard or had a bad thing happen or think a cost is too much.

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## mpuzio34

We are trying to decide which lab to use and from looking at the reviews it appears there have been some issues with the production of this new technology.  Has anyone else had positive feedback from US optical or any other lab?  
We just received our display and frame set this week.  The display demo  lens is pathetic in demonstrating the near zone add.  Has anyone tried  having the patient wear a pair of trial contacts first then use a Demo  set of Plano +2.00 to demonstrate this technology?

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## uncut

If the rep ain't wearin' it..........................kinda makes for the tylenol questions :Cool:

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## idispense

> Should you extend that same courtesy to your patients before they committ to the dollars that they may spend?



Stop being so logical Fezz , have another ale and come back later.

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## J.P.

> We are trying to decide which lab to use and from looking at the reviews it appears there have been some issues with the production of this new technology.  Has anyone else had positive feedback from US optical or any other lab?  
> We just received our display and frame set this week.  The display demo  lens is pathetic in demonstrating the near zone add.  Has anyone tried  having the patient wear a pair of trial contacts first then use a Demo  set of Plano +2.00 to demonstrate this technology?


A Plano/+2.00 demo is a little strong. Especially for new presbyops and demoing it. I have a Plano/+1.50 this way new and emerging presbyops and existing presbyops can actually see it. I have demoed the emPower several times with tiral contacts and it works great. You just have to explain in stronger Sph and Cyl patients that the distortion may be just a little greater in the lenses with their RX. With higher adds they can see it work at arm reach, and emerging presbyops can hold it in closer and see it work. Plus those whom don't even have to have help with up close can actually see the demo work.

As far as other labs, trust me when I say, the reason why so many are having issues is that the 6 other labs have only been making emPower lenses for just 4 months or even less. US Optical has been doing them for over 1 1/2 years with the trial runs. You will not be disappointed with the quality of work they do, even with other jobs other then emPower. Call all the emPower labs, and talk to the lab manager and talk to them about how long they have been working with emPower and their remakes. Honestly US Optical and Ralph one of the owners told me "I will stand behind it and our work and you'll never be dissatisfied with us." And their remake policy is MUCH better then others, and their cost of the charging bases is cheaper then all the others too.

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## sharpstick777

> it is not my place to judge whether or not someone should spend the money on this product or not. I simply educate our patients and they can make their own decision...


Great job!  You are a professional, and can probably sell very well.

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## sharpstick777

> Whether the rep wears them or not may or may not be relevant however , the real question is , why cant the ecp or staff try or wear the product first before having to commit to the several thousand dollars to put in the frames and product.  The maufacturer should be required to prove the product first before they require an account to put up any dollars. I will make it a point in the future to make sure companies physically prove their product and service first before laying down on dime just based on marketing and a look at some demos.


Welcome to Optiboard Lazarus!  Nice to see you out of the cave.

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## sharpstick777

> I have been dispensing ...


Welcome to Optiboard J.P.!

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## bob_f_aboc

Still waiting for a useable display.  We have had 4 come in badly damaged and now the rep is paying someone she knows to make a frame to cover up the broken parts of the display unit.  

4 months after promised delivery time, we are still waiting.  First pair sold on 1/19, still looking like at least another week...if everything passes inspection the first time around.

I was willing to go into this endeavor with an open mind.  It is getting harder and harder when no one will provide any answers about anything related to the product. 

I will update when (if) something happens.

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## eyeGJ

I talked to a colleague today that sold a pair and the patient brought them back complaining about glare issues. She said she made some minor frame adjustments and the patient will try them again. She compared the patient's lenses to her comped pair and called the rep and told him about the noticeable difference in glare treatments. The rep told her that the AR was something that was not too well thought out before they launched these lenses. They are running into problems with the standard quality AR working better on some RXs than others. His suggestion would be to give the patient his money back.  :Eek:

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## Dave E

> I talked to a colleague today that sold a pair and the patient brought them back complaining about glare issues. She said she made some minor frame adjustments and the patient will try them again. She compared the patient's lenses to her comped pair and called the rep and told him about the noticeable difference in glare treatments. The rep told her that the AR was something that was not too well thought out before they launched these lenses. They are running into problems with the standard quality AR working better on some RXs than others. His suggestion would be to give the patient his money back.


It sounds like they have to work out some problems with these

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## Uncle Fester

Call me a Luddite but I'm waiting a while longer before I'll consider recommending them.

The Empower sounds like a very expensive version of the "spring" nose pad. It too self adjusted!

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## Craig

Has anyone sold and dispensed any of these?  Are they still being made?  They are having major production problems!!!!

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## L.A.B.

We have sold and dispensed them. Production right now is 3 weeks. The first ones are fine but mine were made and de-laminated. Panasonic made changes that contributed to  this and now it's been resolved (hope) I have dispensed since the resolution,so we will see.

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## optilady1

I wonder if they are going to have a booth at Vision Expo?  Maybe that would be a good place to get some answers?

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## rdcoach5

My local lab rep recommends no further orders until Pixel gets the major problems ironed out. Major PIA

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## edKENdance

Apparently they'll be available in Canada after you guys work out all the kinks for us.   :Biggrin:

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## eyemanflying

> Apparently they'll be available in Canada after you guys work out all the kinks for us.


Not true!  I met with them at the VEE last month and there are no immediate plans to sell in Canada - our market is much too small for them.

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## edKENdance

> Not true!  I met with them at the VEE last month and there are no immediate plans to sell in Canada - our market is much too small for them.


Interesting.  That's contrary to what my rep told me.  Guess that's not surprising.

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## Craig

> Interesting.  That's contrary to what my rep told me.  Guess that's not surprising.


You want mine!  You can let us know how it goes.

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## edKENdance

> You want mine!  You can let us know how it goes.


Maybe.  Can I get it with Anti-Fog?   :Tongue:

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## J.P.

> My local lab rep recommends no further orders until Pixel gets the major problems ironed out. Major PIA


I don't know why your lab rep is blaming Pixel. I ordered a set 2 weeks ago from my lab i use for emPower, they came back in my 2 week timeline, and with no issues thus far reported by the patient. My Piexl rep says that it's not Pixel having the problem, it's the untrained and inexperienced labs having the major issues. Pixel yes had a bad batch of lenses that came out, unfortunately that happens, but Pixel has has that straightened out for the past month.

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## rdcoach5

[QUOTE=J.P.;422158]I don't know why your lab rep is blaming Pixel. I ordered a set 2 weeks ago from my lab i use for emPower, they came back in my 2 week timeline, and with no issues thus far reported by the patient. My Piexl rep says that it's not Pixel having the problem, it's the untrained and inexperienced labs having the major issues. Pixel yes had a bad batch of lenses that came out, unfortunately that happens, but Pixel has has that straightened out for the past month.[

It is not the labs that cannot digitally grind the Rx, it's the blanks and I hear Pixel is looking to Panasonic to fix those.

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