# Optical Forums > Progressive Lens Discussion Forum >  Essilor EyeCode

## 2020idock

Anybody using the EyeCode lens from big "E" yet?  I am in the process of analyzing my lab business in a big way and considering all of my options.  Essilor has mentioned this lens to me in the past 2 weeks as their best lens I guess in hopes the marketing hype will entice me to continue working with Essilor labs.  Curious to hear real world experiences.

----------


## 2020idock

OK, I guess nobody on OB is one of the 50 offices across the country with this product or doesn't care(more likely this I guess).  VisioOffice is Essilor's measurement device and the EyeCode is the individualized lens that is coming to launch soon.  Anyone?  Bueller?

----------


## Judy Canty

I guess they have to sell you something since they can't sell you the Zeiss Individual.  The VisiOffice is going to set you or your lab back about 10K.

----------


## DanLiv

Eyecode is not a lens, it is a fitting parameter Essilor developed to compensate for different viewing angles of different patients. It is a fitting parameter (like vertex, panto, wrap) that Visioffice will measure and customization for it can be supplied by any of Essilor's digital lenses (all the 360s, including SV and bifocal, the Enhanceds, and the yet-to-be-released DRxs, and of course Ipseo). With the Visioffice you can supply for an Essilor digital lens all the fitting parameters that would go into a Zeiss Individual or any other maximally customized lens, plus the proprietary Eyecode.

My reps haven't tried to market it that way to me yet, but I'm pretty sure once they push it more mainstream they will claim the "most customized lens in the world" since it trumps the Individual's parameters by one. Whether or not Eyecode actually produces and better wearer experience I will have to research.

----------


## HarryChiling

> My reps haven't tried to market it that way to me yet, but I'm pretty sure once they push it more mainstream they will claim the "most customized lens in the world" since it trumps the Individual's parameters by one. Whether or not Eyecode actually produces and better wearer experience I will have to research.


I am curious where this information came from and if you can substansiate it?  I have seen no documentation yet, but have heard a lot about the product.

----------


## DanLiv

Just went to a Visioffice demo at my lab and spoke with the Essilor rep heading the Visioffice program. Had the measurements demoed on me (fast!). In less than a minute it had my PD, seg, panto, wrap, vertex, and the mysterious Eyecode. All of these variables can be supplied to labs and integrated into the 360/Enhanced products. Since the Individual customizes for all this _minus_ Eyecode, there's Essilors marketing banner: the most customized lens in the world. This is just me predicting how they will position themselves. This is not anything they have explicitly told me.

----------


## Barry Santini

"Eyecode" belongs inline with the evolving pantheon of other E products that try to address optimized *fitting* of progressive lenses:

Centromatic
Posicentron
Vision Print
Eyecode

B

----------


## Iroc

What's anyone's impression on the Visioffice?  It definitely sounds useful as I'm currently looking for a "smart mirror" type device to help pt's see the frames they have tried on & since it sounds like this not only does that but also takes measurements to customize a pt's lenses, it sounds like a winner.  Besides the price tag, the only other reservation I have is my OD says he does not want to support the big E since they bought Frames Data & are trying to get a niche on online retail eyewear sales arena.

----------


## DanLiv

> Besides the price tag, the only other reservation I have is my OD says he does not want to support the big E since they bought Frames Data & are trying to get a niche on online retail eyewear sales arena.


The Zeiss iTerminal is very similar and does almost everything as E's machine (except of course their proprietary "eyecode"). They both have floor and desktop models as well. Either will get you all the free form customization measurements you need.

----------


## Java99

I'm in one of the 50 offices, but we haven't used the lenses yet.  Will let you know when we do.

From the info I got, you can order all of the lenses they're touting with just panto, wrap and vertex or with that plus eyecode measurements.  So my question is how does eyecode change the lens parameters?  What really does it add?

----------


## rinselberg

Read about Essilor Eyecode on line:
http://www.variluxusa.com/SiteCollec...SA_Singles.pdf

----------


## Barry Santini

The next step is, of course, a "trial" frame with lenses that is worn (or an attachment to the current frame) that stores and amasses Eyecode-style posture-only data, and creates an envelope of postural history.  Think like *multiple perimetrys".

Barry

----------


## OpticianVlad

We are actually slated to get the VisiOffice in late January 2011.  The instrument is the same as Zeiss' iTerminal with only one difference, The VisiOffice measures the vertex distance across the lens using the rotational axis of the patient's eye as a reference.  
They claim that measuring the vertex distance from the corneal apex is not accurate enough because the eye's axial length is not taken into account. This vertex distance is then used to customize the patient's Rx throughout the lens.

----------


## Chris Ryser

> *Eyecode is not a lens, it is a fitting parameter Essilor developed to compensate for different viewing angles of different patients. It is a fitting parameter (like vertex, panto, wrap) that Visioffice will measure and customization for it can be supplied by any of Essilor's digital lenses (all the 360s, including SV and bifocal, the Enhanceds, and the yet-to-be-released DRxs, and of course Ipseo). With the Visioffice you can supply for an Essilor digital lens all the fitting parameters that would go into a Zeiss Individual or any other maximally customized lens, plus the proprietary Eyecode.*
> 
> *My reps haven't tried to market it that way to me yet, but I'm pretty sure once they push it more mainstream they will claim the "most customized lens in the world" since it trumps the Individual's parameters by one. Whether or not Eyecode actually produces and better wearer experience I will have to research.*


 
Sign of times.........................on the other hand is that not a beautiful instrument to eliminate the hands on operation of the specialist optician during the sale of glasses??????????????
................or a step forward for on-line opticals  ?????

----------


## eyemanflying

> Just went to a Visioffice demo at my lab and spoke with the Essilor rep heading the Visioffice program. Had the measurements demoed on me (fast!). In less than a minute it had my PD, seg, panto, wrap, vertex, and the mysterious Eyecode. All of these variables can be supplied to labs and integrated into the 360/Enhanced products. Since the Individual customizes for all this _minus_ Eyecode, there's Essilors marketing banner: the most customized lens in the world. This is just me predicting how they will position themselves. This is not anything they have explicitly told me.


Although I am a fan of new technology and lens design....the ever growing amount and degree of accuracy required to measure, optimize and dispense customized lenses is becoming way too complex. When a remake is required and the root cause of the dissatisfied patient is unknown, where does one begin? Good ole fashion troubleshooting is what made most us 'seasoned experts' in our professional fields and patients admire and recommend the 'personalized service'. "Sorry Mr. Smith, don't worry a bit...just have a seat, fill in this application, stare at the screen and don't move while the computer figures out what your issue is - while I go make a coffee".

I agree it is an excellent tool to provide an enhanced degree of accuracy, but the major companies that develop these systems want us all to eventually take that blind leap of faith and have us become mindless mouse clickers. And yes, it is all expertly done with their marketing jargon - just pay the $12-$15K and we'll take care of everything. Did we mention that we also lock you in to '_our_' brands only and there is a volume commitment to keep this agreement valid? 

Let's not kid ourselves here folks, the successful wearer never evolved solely from a rash of 'computerized' fittings and never will. Their success and satisfaction is based on a professional's expertise, recommendation of the proper product, personal relationship and feeling of trust and security.

I'm all for enhanced accuracy, but a huge caveat emptor to the hidden agenda of the rest of it...

----------


## MarySue

The comments on remakes make me wonder - Do you deliver the glasses with the accuracy used at the time of measuring?  The new individualised progressive designs require the same precision at delivery as they do with original measurements.  Check the BVD, Tilt, Wrap, Heights, Monocular PDs on the client, and insure that they match the original order.  At times, the labs send the products back with a slightly different pantoscopic tilt angle or wrap angle - and then instruct your clients to wear them until they are comfortable in them.  It takes time to adapt to any new prescription.  Last (and I'll get off my soap box) make sure you do not sell short corridor ANYTHING to people with an add power over +1.75.  Unless of course, you're trying to simulate an invisible bifocal.)

Cheers

----------


## Java99

OK, I've dispensed an Eyecode lens now.  Pt was mid 60s, coming out of a Physio.  She loved it.  The rx was something like -3.00 -.50 with a 2.50 add.  She also loved the experience of the machine, she called it fun.

I love the demos on the machine, because when we're backed up in optical, the front desk staff can distract the waiting patients with fancy explanations of myopia, PAL designs, why arc is great, etc. These are things the front desk never would have dreamed of discussing with patients before, and frankly we wouldn't have wanted them to.  But with the pretty video, they can head off more in depth questions by saying 'the optician can answer that for you.  Have you seen the polarized demo?"  That I really, really love.

----------


## FVCCHRIS

> Sign of times.........................on the other hand is that not a beautiful instrument to eliminate the hands on operation of the specialist optician during the sale of glasses??????????????
> ................or a step forward for on-line opticals ?????


Smoke and mirrors by lens manufacturers showing "razzle dazzle stuff" with their right hand, while sliding their left hand around your back- that's the hand with the knife in it. They will continue to develop devices to help them mass market direct to patients via the internet. Easier and more impressive to the patient? Yes, and pretty soon no need to waste time seeing an Optician for anything, except of course to get those screws tightened up.

----------


## HarryChiling

> Last (and I'll get off my soap box) make sure you do not sell short corridor ANYTHING to people with an add power over +1.75. Unless of course, you're trying to simulate an invisible bifocal.)
> 
> Cheers


They are the best candidates for a shorter corridor harder design, what do you suggest instead?

I don't really buy into the intermediate section of a lens, it's what I like to refer to as a bonus.  In lower adds the area may be more useable since th edesign is softer and the corridor wider but it will constrict and harden over the patients years ina  PAL, knowing this I always recommend early on that they consider a seperate pair for computer and reading as a task specific pair.  Newer presbyopes I give a pass to but let them know in the future they will have to consider the option.  Very few that use computers or read alot don't appreciate that second task specific pair.

----------


## Java99

> We are actually slated to get the VisiOffice in late January 2011.  The instrument is the same as Zeiss' iTerminal with only one difference, The VisiOffice measures the vertex distance across the lens using the rotational axis of the patient's eye as a reference.  
> They claim that measuring the vertex distance from the corneal apex is not accurate enough because the eye's axial length is not taken into account. This vertex distance is then used to customize the patient's Rx throughout the lens.


Have you gotten your machine yet?  If you have, what's your impression?

----------


## katbill10

The Visioffice is a great tool, but you do have to make sure the patient is aligned in the camera.  Some of the measurements were off by 3-4 mm in a progressive, I always check them with a pen before taking out the lenses.  What is really cool is you can take a picture of the patient with their new frames and email it to them, for the patient that wants approval from family or friends it is a great too.  We have had the Visioffice about 1 month now, hopefully it will pay off with the ability to take such accurate measurements.  We had the Zeiss I Terminal before this and had issues with the segs being off.  If you do purchase, double check measurements until you become proficient otherwise remakes will be in your future.  


> What's anyone's impression on the Visioffice? It definitely sounds useful as I'm currently looking for a "smart mirror" type device to help pt's see the frames they have tried on & since it sounds like this not only does that but also takes measurements to customize a pt's lenses, it sounds like a winner. Besides the price tag, the only other reservation I have is my OD says he does not want to support the big E since they bought Frames Data & are trying to get a niche on online retail eyewear sales arena.

----------


## rdcoach5

> They are the best candidates for a shorter corridor harder design, what do you suggest instead?
> 
> I don't really buy into the intermediate section of a lens, it's what I like to refer to as a bonus. In lower adds the area may be more useable since th edesign is softer and the corridor wider but it will constrict and harden over the patients years ina PAL, knowing this I always recommend early on that they consider a seperate pair for computer and reading as a task specific pair. Newer presbyopes I give a pass to but let them know in the future they will have to consider the option. Very few that use computers or read alot don't appreciate that second task specific pair.


Harry, I agree and am in fact wearing GT2 3D short corridor ! It's an all-around great lens and very good for us +2.50 add people. It gets to the near zone quicker, thus saving neck strain at the computer.

----------


## VTC

I'm using Visioffice since 5 year and I sell Eyecode technology since 1 year.
The measurement of the distance between the back side of the glass and the rotational center of the eye allows a better correction of the peripheral aberrations.

All people equipped feel a better visual comfort, a better sharpness in their vision (distance vision).

In France IVS (the maker of Visioffice) is now introducing a new version of their software :
I do a dynamical measurement of the position of the customer in front of the mirror.
The software "guess" the true position of the wearer by statistically analyzing about 8/10 position (by doing movement : left, right, up, down in front of the mirror).
So the tilt and wrap measure are very precise !

Another fact is that this technology is founded in more and more shop and begin to be known from the customer.
Now, if an optician want to sell high end glasses (prize range $500-$600 each), the perception of the prize need such technology (from Essilor or another maker) !!!

----------


## ucheecreek

We have the Visoffice and I have started using the EyeCode lens which I also wear. I have not had any nonadapts. I used the lens on a couple in their 80s that had only used FT 28. They both put them on and talked about how much better vision they with the new lenses. I think that it is a big step for our practice.

----------


## AustinEyewear

Would love to hear updates on Optiboarders experience with Eyecode. Are you still liking it?  Also curious what info is being transferred over the internet, I've heard you have to plug it into the net?  And what happens if you don't?

----------


## VTC

Same answer.

In France, you can order the glasses on a site (opsysweb.com) where you input all the measures needed for Eyecode program.

The big advantages :

no mistakes (or it's yours...)PMS link (if available)Essilor stored indefinitely the data (with the form of the frame if you order with a special thickness)

----------


## LENNY

Did anyone actually paid for it? How much?

----------


## rachel42486

i have visioffice in my office and wear the SV eyecode lenses. Love the lenses; i'm a minus four and they have an amazing field of vision for me with absolutely no difference in vision from the edges of my lenses to the optical center to the other edge. 
The Visioffice is a nice contraption. I, like others have mentioned, always manually take segs before I take the lenses out and position the patient to take the measurements. I haven't sold any physio eyecodes yet due to cost, but I'm working on a new fee schedule to help with that. 
Do any of you "bundle" your lenses with material and AR options?

----------


## opticienne

I certainly hope that one won't need this fancy machine to sell expensive frames, because our Visioffice has let us down. Worse, good customers are unhappy with their S series and we have had to remake quite a few lenses at our expense. We are still trying to make our Visioffice function outside of its use as a "cool" sales tool for people who need their current glasses on to see what they look like in other frames, and also people who love attention. It has been frustrating trying to get any help from Essilor: after all, we bought it, so the sale has been made. Why should Essilor bother with a fussy customer when the ultimate goal of this technology is most likely to acclimate consumers to the idea of digital measurements, looking ahead to a means of directly "fitting" the patient on the internet. I wonder about the prevalence of pleased Visioffice users in my research...I am willing to assume responsibility for using it improperly and thus ordering useless lenses, but having taken the webinar and practiced exhaustively, I'm thinking I may have just bought a very expensive conversation piece for my practice. 
Feedback much appreciated from those with any insight...
As for my opinion on whether or not others should invest in this technology, in case I didn't come off as frustrated enough, here it is: Don't buy one. Get a good pupilometer and a milimeter rule.

----------


## lucasb.santiago

Hi folks, I have been following your coments on the S series with a lot of curiosity, since we don't have this lens in brazil (and we might never have it). The  "best" lens avaliable from essilor here is the Ipseo, and in order to sell it you need a VisioOffice.
Where I'm trying to get is, in theory the ipseo is a great lens due to the possibility to customize it to the pacient's eye and head movement, but I was wondering how it really holds up against it's rivals? What are your experiences comparing them to the Zeiss Individual 2 and the Hoya Lifestyle?
ps. sorry for my poor english

----------


## lcgordon

you can get all the same measurements that the visuaoffice, iterminal, and optikam does except for about 9,000 to 13,000 less using the spectangle app on the iPad with hoya.  You can also get several other apps that run in conjunction with the spectangle like the HVC app that you can change the lens, AR, etc... on the fly while the patient looks through it on the iPad.  the spectangle app is only $499 and you take four pictures to get all the measurements (pd, a,b,dbl, vertex, wrap, panto, etc....)  Patients love the optician using the iPad and even the older generation thinks its cool.  You can get the iPad and the app for a total investment of under $1,000.  Once you get those measurements you just type in the patients name and prescription and the types of lifestyle/hobbies the patient has (like computer, driving, reading, etc...) and you can order the ID Mystyle lens from the iPad to the lab.  you can track the order through the iPad as well.   Get with your local hoya rep if you want more info.  I believe they have some sort of rewards program to help offset the cost of the iPad and the app

----------


## Optician1960

The Hoya progressive simulator is very good and the Ipad is very handy. The measurement tool on Optikam vs Hoya is a lopsided win for Optikam. 1 picture taken with terrific accuracy vs 3 pictures taken including non flattering angles with Hoya. With the new Ipad from Optikam the system is better yet. Not sure on pricing for either one...

----------

