# Optical Forums > General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum >  What is Costco's warranty or guarantee on glasses?

## plum

After reading some posts on this board about Costco, I called a local Costco optical department today and asked their policy on returns. She was kind of vague and said they try very hard not to refund. For 30 days they will work with you and try to make things right. 

So will they refund or not? If you are just unhappy within the 30 days?

I was reading some good things on this board about Essilor Ovation lenses for progressive glasses. I wondered if it was worth trying them from Costco. Do they make them fairly quickly, or do you have to wait weeks? A 30 day guarantee isn't much good if it takes 2 weeks to get the glasses. I asked this because I think somebody mentioned waiting 3 weeks.

Are the Ovations from Costco the very same ones you get at Lenscrafters?

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## Audiyoda

This is a sticky issue at Costco clubs.  Costco's policy is to retain the customer - they offer a very liberal return policy on everything in the store - even produce.  I've heard of people returning big screen TV's 5 years after purchase and walking out with a new (and much better) unit.

But their optical dept runs a bit differently if make your return there.  30 days from the date of pick up for a remake if you're not happy, but no returns.

In my opinion, eyeglasses are unique medical devices are should not be applicable to a 'refund' - remake into something else is another thing, but an all out return is a lose-lose.  When I was in school I worked for LensCrafters and couldn't believe the return mentality some people had - I recall one lady that was going out on the town and she told us she'd be returning her glasses the next day.  She only needed them that night to look good for her friends.

And yes, the Ovation they use is the same Ovation any of us (including LensCrafter) can get.

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## plum

Thank you. I very much appreciate the information. 

I called the local Costco and she said it takes about a week and a half for glasses. Someone on this board mentioned he waited 3 weeks. If you get a pair and it isn't correct, and they re-make them, does your 30 day guarantee start on the day you pick up the re-makes?  

I was also curious about where the lenses are actually made. Since they take a week and a half, I'm assuming they don't make them on the premises? Are they ordered from a central location and then the local opticians cut the lenses and put them in your frames?

If the Ovation lenses are the same from Lenscrafters and Costco, is there any reason why I shouldn't just get them at Costco? Assuming I liked the frames there? And as long as the person fitting you is a board certified optician? It seems like the price is about $150 less (or more).

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## LENNY

Ever heard of private optical stores?
99.9% of my patients are happy from the first try!

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## akeroptical

THANK YOU LENNY!

Listening to a customer shop based on the stores redo policy is absurd. 

:drop:

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## plum

There is an optician next to my eye doctor. I think he rents space from the eye doctor. When I was waiting for my husband to get his eye exam, I wandered into the optician's room. I told him that both my husband and I were going to be buying glasses. He was not very pleasant nor helpful. He got a personal phone call (that didn't sound very important) and he proceeded to spend most of my visit chatting with his friend. I asked about transition lenses and he said he'd put a pair outside so I could see how dark they get.  I waited and then a little later asked about them. He forgot. He went out and got them and showed me. Here was a customer for two pair of progressive lenses and he barely gave me the time of day. 

He is the only private optician I have had contact with and I was extremely unimpressed. I would never go there.  If I purchased glasses there and there was a problem, I don't think he'd be very helpful. That's why I thought if I went to a large store or chain, at least if there was a problem, they'd do something about it.

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## LENNY

People are so brainwashed by large corporations!

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## For-Life

> There is an optician next to my eye doctor. I think he rents space from the eye doctor. When I was waiting for my husband to get his eye exam, I wandered into the optician's room. I told him that both my husband and I were going to be buying glasses. He was not very pleasant nor helpful. He got a personal phone call (that didn't sound very important) and he proceeded to spend most of my visit chatting with his friend. I asked about transition lenses and he said he'd put a pair outside so I could see how dark they get. I waited and then a little later asked about them. He forgot. He went out and got them and showed me. Here was a customer for two pair of progressive lenses and he barely gave me the time of day. 
> 
> He is the only private optician I have had contact with and I was extremely unimpressed. I would never go there. If I purchased glasses there and there was a problem, I don't think he'd be very helpful. That's why I thought if I went to a large store or chain, at least if there was a problem, they'd do something about it.


 
No offence, but you had one bad experience with a private optician and now it seems like you have given up on private opticians.  But then when you have had a bad experience with a corporation you look at other corporations?

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## Johns

> No offence, but you had one bad experience with a private optician and now it seems like you have given up on private opticians. But then when you have had a bad experience with a corporation you look at other corporations?


 

Let them go...

Why bother with someone when there are so many others out there ?

It's not worth the breath it takes to argue with them.

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## markssunwear

I worked for costco for ten years in the lab in 1989 when I started we were
 doing 300-400 jobs daily, when I left there in 1999 we were at 3000-3500
daily.YES I did not put a extra 0 on the end.A good friend of mine is still there and thats the numbers they do daily.I was runing 4 HORIZON edgers 
all day long,non stop,now all surface/finish is robotic,all they need is mounter's. world wide they have 400-500 store's just think 10 jobs per store and you can imagine what kind of MONEY there makeing.
KIRKLAND frames.own lenes,ect.Take the average cost RETAIL of each pair
of glasses and see what # you come up with..














> Thank you. I very much appreciate the information. 
> 
> I called the local Costco and she said it takes about a week and a half for glasses. Someone on this board mentioned he waited 3 weeks. If you get a pair and it isn't correct, and they re-make them, does your 30 day guarantee start on the day you pick up the re-makes? 
> 
> I was also curious about where the lenses are actually made. Since they take a week and a half, I'm assuming they don't make them on the premises? Are they ordered from a central location and then the local opticians cut the lenses and put them in your frames?
> 
> If the Ovation lenses are the same from Lenscrafters and Costco, is there any reason why I shouldn't just get them at Costco? Assuming I liked the frames there? And as long as the person fitting you is a board certified optician? It seems like the price is about $150 less (or more).

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## plum

markssunwear, That is interesting. But I'm not sure how to interpret the information. Yes, it looks like they are making bundles of money. Is that bad? Are you saying that they do so much business the quality suffers? Or that they do such a volume business that they can afford to price much lower?

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## snowmonster

Plum - here's the problem.  The perception that the general public has is that large companies (like Lens Crafters, Costco, etc) has the latest and greatest stuff and that they are more advanced than your independent opticians, as well as OD and MD offices.

The reality is that because they are a large corporation:
There is absolutely zero variety amongst the storesThey are all limited to 1 or 2 brands of progressive lenses because of contractual obligations and pricing.  I think Lens Crafters only offers the Ovation and no other progressive.  Also, I don't believe you can get anything over a 1.67 index, meaning you can't benefit from the 1.70 or 1.74 (very thin) lenses there.They don't offer the latest progressives that allow you to have a shorter frame (from top to bottom)They will likely take longer to do your job, depending on how slow their central lab isThese stores work for the masses, but if you need something a little out of the norm, you can't get it there.

Did you even *actually buy* glasses from Costco or are you just thinking that you're going to have a problem?

   -Steve

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## plum

Steve,

Thanks for the reply. No, I didn't buy glasses there. I have a friend who did, and he loves his. His wife didn't buy there because she didn't like the choice of frames. She bought at Lenscrafters.

She went eyeglass shopping with me and we went to four different eyeglass places in the mall and ended up finding nice frames at LC. I purchased some Varilux panamics there. I told them I'd heard Varilux was better than their "store brand" (which I have now found out is Ovation), so she sold me Panamics. At the time I didn't know that Varilux had different lenses. In fact, I knew nothing. Turns out that Panamic is the only Varilux they sell.

In these glasses, I have a reading width of 2.5". Very, very narrow. Nobody else I've talked to has this narrow of a reading width in their progressives (any brand). I found out that Panamics do tend to have one of the narrowest reading areas, and the person suggested the old Varilux Comfort. I'm sort of "stuck" with LC for the moment. They don't have Varilux comfort. They said the PD is off on these glasses they made and they are remaking them. If they turn out exactly the same, my other choice would be the Ovations from LC. I figured if I was getting Ovations, I might as well get them from Costco.

I spend a lot of time on the computer and reading, and I can do neither with these current glasses. On the computer screen, I have a tiny round area I can see. When I read a book, I have to turn my head to three places just to read across a 5" page.

I've learned a lot about different lenses this past week, so I'm just trying to figure out my options if these don't work out. And Costco is an option.

I don't mind paying extra to go to an independent optician. But the experience I had with that one I talked with was not good. I'm sure there are great opticians and crummy ones. I wouldn't know how to tell the difference. And it seemed like he had a very small assortment of frames to choose from.

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## snowmonster

So you're not aware that the Ovation is made by Essilor, which is the parent company of Varilux, huh?

If you have a short frame (top to bottom), you would likely get more reading area from a totally different brand of lens.

-Steve

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## plum

Steve,

Yes, I think I had figured out the same company made them. I figured maybe Ovation was the "bargain Lens" of the Essilor family. But it sounds like many people love them.

Is there a brand that gives you a good reading area without sacrificing much in the mid and distance range?

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## Ory

Plum:

A PD that is off will make a progressive lens useless.  The fact that you were dispensed a pair of glasses without the PD being double checked is embarassing to the whole industry.

It sounds like this is your first progressive.  Even after you get the corrected PD, it will take some time to get used to them.  There is no magic lens that will make your eyes 20 years old again.  Don't be surprised if you pick up the new specs and immediately think it is no better...you essentially have to re-learn how to use your eyes with this type of lens.

All of this is information your prescriber or dispenser should have told you.

So just relax, get the new glasses.  Talk to the manager and state that since it was their error from the beginning you would like your 30 day satisfaction guarantee or whatever to start from the time you pick up the new glasses.  Get it in writing on your receipt.  If you're still not happy after 2 weeks of really wearing the glasses (not just putting them on for 5 minutes but really wearing them), go in to the store again.  If they refuse to fix the problem to your satisfaction, make a scene. A BIG scene.  Preferrably when the store is busy.  They will do anything to get you out of the store.

Good Luck

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## For-Life

> Plum:
> 
> A PD that is off will make a progressive lens useless. The fact that you were dispensed a pair of glasses without the PD being double checked is embarassing to the whole industry.
> 
> It sounds like this is your first progressive. Even after you get the corrected PD, it will take some time to get used to them. There is no magic lens that will make your eyes 20 years old again. Don't be surprised if you pick up the new specs and immediately think it is no better...you essentially have to re-learn how to use your eyes with this type of lens.
> 
> All of this is information your prescriber or dispenser should have told you.
> 
> So just relax, get the new glasses. Talk to the manager and state that since it was their error from the beginning you would like your 30 day satisfaction guarantee or whatever to start from the time you pick up the new glasses. Get it in writing on your receipt. If you're still not happy after 2 weeks of really wearing the glasses (not just putting them on for 5 minutes but really wearing them), go in to the store again. If they refuse to fix the problem to your satisfaction, make a scene. A BIG scene. Preferrably when the store is busy. They will do anything to get you out of the store.
> ...


Not much more to say.  Unfortunately, some others posters in the other thread decided to push the issue and try to use it to prove their own points.  

Like I said in the first thread, lets wait until the PD is corrected.

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## markssunwear

bundles of money is not bad its the fact that they lower the prices becouse of the quanity they do,Quality did suffer when I was there and breakage was very high 350-450 jobs daily, power off,seg's off,PD off,scratches,chips,alot of small lenes,and the list goes on.alot of people were getting hurt (Carbule Tunel) and alot of complaining.so what did they do about it,(THEY HIRED A TEMP AGENTCY AND HIRED PEOPLE WITH NO EXPEREANCE TO MAKE GLASSES)So they do not have to worry about people getting hurt or paying insurance its all on the temp agentcy.

   quote=costco; here is a small screw driver bending pliers put this lenes in this frame.(YES YOU WILL STAB YOUR FINGERS,BUT YOU WILL GET USED TO IT)we want 30-40 jobs mounted per hour, The superviser will come buy every hour and take your number you did in that hour,if you did not meet your 30-40 jobs you get called in the office to (SEE IF YOUR FINGERS ARE HURTING) LOL, no really to see why your numbers are low.

    So take it from here does Quality suffer?








> markssunwear, That is interesting. But I'm not sure how to interpret the information. Yes, it looks like they are making bundles of money. Is that bad? Are you saying that they do so much business the quality suffers? Or that they do such a volume business that they can afford to price much lower?

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## chip anderson

Plum:  I suspect that the "private optician" is an employee of the eye doctor, especially if you can walk into his "room" without a separating door.

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## Nettie

> Plum:
> 
> A PD that is off will make a progressive lens useless. The fact that you were dispensed a pair of glasses without the PD being double checked is embarassing to the whole industry.
> 
> It sounds like this is your first progressive. Even after you get the corrected PD, it will take some time to get used to them. There is no magic lens that will make your eyes 20 years old again. Don't be surprised if you pick up the new specs and immediately think it is no better...you essentially have to re-learn how to use your eyes with this type of lens.
> 
> All of this is information your prescriber or dispenser should have told you.
> 
> So just relax, get the new glasses. Talk to the manager and state that since it was their error from the beginning you would like your 30 day satisfaction guarantee or whatever to start from the time you pick up the new glasses. Get it in writing on your receipt. If you're still not happy after 2 weeks of really wearing the glasses (not just putting them on for 5 minutes but really wearing them), go in to the store again. If they refuse to fix the problem to your satisfaction, make a scene. A BIG scene. Preferrably when the store is busy. They will do anything to get you out of the store.
> ...


The people who are rude and make a big scene are the ones I do not want to help.  But my patients do not need to make a really big scene in order for me to listen to their concerns and do my best to help them.

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## Ory

> The people who are rude and make a big scene are the ones I do not want to help. But my patients do not need to make a really big scene in order for me to listen to their concerns and do my best to help them.


I agree completely.  I've also worked in a number of non-optical retail stores and seen that making a scene is the best way to get what you want.  Large chains are very concerned with their image and a yelling, screaming, irate customer is bad for their image.  Most managers will give in to get rid of the person.

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## shellrob

> I agree completely. I've also worked in a number of non-optical retail stores and seen that making a scene is the best way to get what you want. Large chains are very concerned with their image and a yelling, screaming, irate customer is bad for their image. Most managers will give in to get rid of the person.


I cannot believe that you are telling a customer to make a scene at their eyeglass store. You should be ashamed of yourself. Have you ever made a mistake? Measured wrong? We all have, we're human. So, how do you like it when you've made an honest mistake but the cutomer continues to yell and berate you? It sucks. So please Ory, give them the befit of the doubt, let them correct the problem and go from there. It never helps the situation to go in yelling an screaming to get your way.

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## Johns

> I cannot believe that you are telling a customer to make a scene at their eyeglass store.


Who cares?  They can scream all they want at the chains to get whatever they want...

...Do it in my store and it just gets you kicked out. (Indpendents are ALLOWED to do that!)

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## rainchild

I feel the need to respond...I work for lenscrafters and proud of it

-variety...why need variety between stores when each store caries 2000 styles?
-progressives...we carry ovation, sola, and the entire line of varilux lenses...between those we have never had a problem meeting a customers need.(as well as a selction of other styles for various specific needs)
-we can get 1.74....and do regularly
-we sell the varilux elipse with a fitting height of 14 mm
our central lab jobs return in 4 to 5 business days


the misconceptions about lenscrafters products and quality have been around for years. We have great selection ,exceptional service and we have to follow the same federal quality standards as anyone else...in some cases ours are stricter.

know your facts before you make sweeping statements.








> Plum - here's the problem. The perception that the general public has is that large companies (like Lens Crafters, Costco, etc) has the latest and greatest stuff and that they are more advanced than your independent opticians, as well as OD and MD offices.
> 
> The reality is that because they are a large corporation:
> There is absolutely zero variety amongst the storesThey are all limited to 1 or 2 brands of progressive lenses because of contractual obligations and pricing. I think Lens Crafters only offers the Ovation and no other progressive. Also, I don't believe you can get anything over a 1.67 index, meaning you can't benefit from the 1.70 or 1.74 (very thin) lenses there.They don't offer the latest progressives that allow you to have a shorter frame (from top to bottom)They will likely take longer to do your job, depending on how slow their central lab isThese stores work for the masses, but if you need something a little out of the norm, you can't get it there.
> 
> Did you even *actually buy* glasses from Costco or are you just thinking that you're going to have a problem?
> 
> -Steve

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## snowmonster

The availability of any index above 1.67 and the Varilux Ellipse (and "all" Varilux lenses, as you describe) and turnaround time of less than 2 weeks must be new changes since May 2005 when I stopped working there.

Perhaps things are simply different in Canadia?

If things have changed that drastically in the states in the past 3 months, then I'm clearly mistaken.  But I worked at a Lens Crafters for 3 years until May of this year and my observations are 100% accurate for the store in Indiana where I worked.

So in essence, they are facts as that was how things worked in the store I was at, and I hung out with the lab people very often.

   -Steve

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## Ory

> I cannot believe that you are telling a customer to make a scene at their eyeglass store. You should be ashamed of yourself. Have you ever made a mistake? Measured wrong? We all have, we're human. So, how do you like it when you've made an honest mistake but the cutomer continues to yell and berate you? It sucks. So please Ory, give them the befit of the doubt, let them correct the problem and go from there. It never helps the situation to go in yelling an screaming to get your way.


I will not be ashamed of what I wrote.  Did you read the whole thread?  I clearly explained all the steps to being a good customer.  I said that plum should get the new glasses.  I made it very clear that the manager should put _in writing_ that the guarantee will from the pick-up of the new pair since it was their error originally.  If the store will not honour that written word after a couple of weeks, then plum can go crazy on them.  I think that would be quite justified.

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## rainchild

snowmonster


perhaps things are different in Canada...but I wouldn't think so. The company is very concerned with the equal providing of service across the brands. Certainly, most of the instock lenses are ovations (some exceptions) but we order in everything else now too. The company has gone through major changes in the last year...there is much less empasis placed on one hour in the sense that they now encourage us to order in a product if it best meets the needs of the customer. we used to do everything in the hour (therefore less options available) to now we order in up to 60% of our product.

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## Jubilee

> I feel the need to respond...I work for lenscrafters and proud of it
> 
> -variety...why need variety between stores when each store caries 2000 styles?
> -progressives...we carry ovation, sola, and the entire line of varilux lenses...between those we have never had a problem meeting a customers need.(as well as a selction of other styles for various specific needs)
> -we can get 1.74....and do regularly
> -we sell the varilux elipse with a fitting height of 14 mm
> our central lab jobs return in 4 to 5 business days
> 
> 
> ...


 

I have never dogged LC quality.. since I was in lab management that would be putting down my own self....though I didn't work the Central Lab and did have many an issue with them

However, of the 2000 styles you carry, many are the same. You have one style in 4 colors taking 8 slots. 

Progressive lenses.. most lenses in stock are the ovations. Yeah, you have Sola Max lenses for reg poly.. and the Illumina for the poly lenses. For Varilux, in my tenure there we could get comfort, panamic and ellipse. However it took about 2 weeks and don't dare ask for crizal ar to go with it.. cause then you were lucky to see it in a month and the extra patient cost was $140... (+100 to base pal for Varilux, and +40 for Crizal) which in total is way more than I charge and I get the lenses in a week.

Now of course I have been gone for almost a year, but when I was there we were "allowed" to get 1.74, or 1.71 for that matter.

I wasn't allowed to order anything like the Office or Technica or any other task specific lens, unless I was working at one of the locations utilizing the Prio computer vision model..I am told this is true still today

AR was taking 10-14 days to get back and process. With the focus on AR sales, of course it wanted to shy away from 1 hr. However most patients still requested this service. Which is fine, if all your lab people weren't on the floor helping the patients since we had to cut staff again and again. 

My biggest gripe was the mentality that if you didn't meet your quotas then you were out the door. So I "work" a couple of days on the floor, given primarily dispensing, troubleshooting, repairs and greeting duties.. but I get my **** handed to me for not meeting goals. Though I was to hand over sales to other associates so I was free to take care of everything else..

I know lots of people who still work at the LC, and the level of knowledge most of their "opticians" have is horrendous. For every 5-6 people who work the retail floor, only one may know enough to do troubleshooting or to offer something that isn't LC bread and butter...


Obviously LC does some things right..just not all of them.

Cassandra

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## rainchild

cassandra,

we have no problem ordering in task specific lenses like office or interview lenses.  our scotchgard coating is essentially crizal and it's only 30 dollars more than the regular.  my store carries 2000 different styles 
  Yes we do ask alot from our associates although quotas is not one of them...we set sales goals but I have never heard of a business that doesn't.  We do work really hard but I find that the only people who generally have a problem with it are those with a background working in low volume dispensaries where they might sell 8 to 10 pair a day.  we do 60 to 75 pair a day and I expect my staff to be working all the time.
to say we have bad opticians is ludicrous...the two years I went to school for my liscence the top scorers on the school exam and on the licencing exam came from lenscrafters.  As an optician I am exposed to every variation of Rx, problem..etc due to the shere volume of things we came across.  I remember some students from doctors offices had a hard time just getting their minimum fits in over the 2 years...I got all of mine in 3 days!  Some got licensed never having fit/done a troubleshoot on a high prism patient.  I handled that at least once a week.  I would pit our opticians against any in the business!
   Maybe you worked in a bad location, or had a bad manager but I suspect from your tone of voice that you just had a bad attitude!

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## shellrob

Rainchild......you must be an exception. I actually have never met a truly happy Lenscrafters employee.

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## rainchild

LMAO...because the only ones that are on this board appear to be disgruntles former employees.  there is a reason why we were in the forbes top 50 companies to work for!  I have worked in many fields and many types of organizations and I have never been as well treated as I have been in the last 5 years with lenscrafters.  We actually have a well below market turn over rate.  I just transfered into my new store but in my old store I was one of the newbies at 5 years!  If we sucked so bad, we wouldn't have so many people putting in their 10th, 15th and 20th year with the organization.

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## david

for the uninitiated, costco's "warranty" on eyewear is simple. there are no printed assurances on custom made jobs. they will replace or refund any 
product bought at costco for member satisfaction. however, because of 
pressure to maintain a 2.00 to 3.00 percent damaged and lost dollars, commonly referred as D%d, many optical managers initiate local or regional guidelines or suggested spiels to members to help reduce re-dos,
re-makes, and refunds. some locations will quote 30 days, others 60-days, and still others will say one year to a lifetime of prescription to allow any changes, modifications or money back solutions. the primary goal is that no one walks away unsatisfied with the final solution given by the optical dept or the general manager. although there will remain the constant 1% that will abuse or take advantage of the policy, the actual loss incurred by the dept still remains relatively low for almost all locations and remain within the company's standards. the benefits , of course, is that Costco reaps repeat and increasing referred business from this vague
yet inconsistent, practices.

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## Chris Ryser

*I think that a good opticians first duty is to deliver a product that carries a pair of lenses that measure the exact value of the Rx placed at the right spot inside the frame according to properly measured values in relation to the frame size.*

If that rule is followed the result is 100% correct and the only return a customer could want is because he or she changed their minds about their appearance and might not like the frame anymore.

The only warranty should be for incorrect work supplied, anybody can make a mistake, at which point the error should be corrected at no charge.

*I believe that all this warranty talk is for the birds if you are capable to do a decent job and not oversell lenses that you should know the customer will have problems with.*

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## rainchild

you're failing to take into account situations where the RX was incorrectly written in the first place.  I remake numerous pairs due to Dr. error, or an error on the part of the receptionist writing the rx wrong, or some abberation on the day of the exam resulting in an incorrect RX.  None of these are the consumers fault and we remake for those.  We also remake an unlimited number of times within 6 months for post surgery patients whose healing eyes may require a series of RX's before they settle into the final one...  then there are the occasional lens or frame defects.  and of-course, no-one is perfect and sometimes things just go out that shouldn't have...(cosmetically)  so you remake, apologise and make sure it doesn't happen again.  and then of-course there is a strange phenominon in regards to dogs eating their owners new glasses 2 days after they receive them...we remake those too, cause you just can't stop that!








> *I think that a good opticians first duty is to deliver a product that carries a pair of lenses that measure the exact value of the Rx placed at the right spot inside the frame according to properly measured values in relation to the frame size.*
> 
> If that rule is followed the result is 100% correct and the only return a customer could want is because he or she changed their minds about their appearance and might not like the frame anymore.
> 
> The only warranty should be for incorrect work supplied, anybody can make a mistake, at which point the error should be corrected at no charge.
> 
> *I believe that all this warranty talk is for the birds if you are capable to do a decent job and not oversell lenses that you should know the customer will have problems with.*

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## shellrob

> you're failing to take into account situations where the RX was incorrectly written in the first place. I remake numerous pairs due to Dr. error, or an error on the part of the receptionist writing the rx wrong, or some abberation on the day of the exam resulting in an incorrect RX. None of these are the consumers fault and we remake for those. We also remake an unlimited number of times within 6 months for post surgery patients whose healing eyes may require a series of RX's before they settle into the final one... then there are the occasional lens or frame defects. and of-course, no-one is perfect and sometimes things just go out that shouldn't have...(cosmetically) so you remake, apologise and make sure it doesn't happen again. and then of-course there is a strange phenominon in regards to dogs eating their owners new glasses 2 days after they receive them...we remake those too, cause you just can't stop that!


 
You remake someones glasses that were eaten buy their own dog? GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!! That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life. And to remake glasses numerous times after surgery because the patient may require multiple rx's is ridiculous as well. The patient shouldn't be getting new glasses post surgery until their eyes are healed completely anyhow. My lord, I have never heard such crap in my life.

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## Chris Ryser

> *We also remake an unlimited number of times within 6 months for post surgery patients whose healing eyes may require a series of RX's before they settle into the final one...*


Times for sure changed....................in the days of cataract glasses, patients were advised that they would get a temporary pair of lenses and probably have to get a new pair after about six month. They paid for both pairs.

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## rainchild

the dog thing is a little odd..but technically they can just return them within the first 30 days...so we do it!  LOL
as the for the cataract thing...how lacking in empathy are you that  you are comfortable telling a nice old man that he is just going to have to forgo seeing anything, or reading, or driving, or watching tv or whatever because his old glasses don't work for him and his new RX will only work for about 2 months because his eyes are still healing.  So this poor guy on a fixed income either has to try to shell out a whack load of cash for several sets of lenses or just accept not seeing for 6 months.  remeber that when you are 70 and want to see your dinner.

the average optical/independant can't afford to do these types of things but as a company that can, i think we have a moral obligation to the community to provide this kind of service.






> You remake someones glasses that were eaten buy their own dog? GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!! That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life. And to remake glasses numerous times after surgery because the patient may require multiple rx's is ridiculous as well. The patient shouldn't be getting new glasses post surgery until their eyes are healed completely anyhow. My lord, I have never heard such crap in my life.

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## Jubilee

> cassandra,
> 
> we have no problem ordering in task specific lenses like office or interview lenses. our scotchgard coating is essentially crizal and it's only 30 dollars more than the regular. my store carries 2000 different styles 
> Yes we do ask alot from our associates although quotas is not one of them...we set sales goals but I have never heard of a business that doesn't. We do work really hard but I find that the only people who generally have a problem with it are those with a background working in low volume dispensaries where they might sell 8 to 10 pair a day. we do 60 to 75 pair a day and I expect my staff to be working all the time.
> to say we have bad opticians is ludicrous...the two years I went to school for my liscence the top scorers on the school exam and on the licencing exam came from lenscrafters. As an optician I am exposed to every variation of Rx, problem..etc due to the shere volume of things we came across. I remember some students from doctors offices had a hard time just getting their minimum fits in over the 2 years...I got all of mine in 3 days! Some got licensed never having fit/done a troubleshoot on a high prism patient. I handled that at least once a week. I would pit our opticians against any in the business!
> Maybe you worked in a bad location, or had a bad manager but I suspect from your tone of voice that you just had a bad attitude!


 
I would say maybe Canada is different. I worked in 2 states with 4 different home stores and worked for significant time (I covered for many a manager's vacations, etc) in 11 different stores. I spent 11 years there, and if you bothered to look at my previous postings, you would see that in general I have defended them in many occasions, and anytime a consumer had an issue... I Took care of it.. whether they were in my home area or not.  I certainly didn't have an attitude problem with them till my health and career was jeapordized due to a work related incidence, and it was handled horribly.

So before you start making broad sweeping generalizations, maybe you should have your facts in order. I can only vouch for the state of affairs in my local area stateside. Yes, things were better in Washington State where you had to be licensed.. but here in Indiana, why does the optician not even know what is meant by asking "did you really want split base curves on that?" or why a patient wanted to know the abbe value and what Hi index polymer we used due to his problems with Chromatic Abberation... The associate didn't even know what that term meant, nor did the Lab Manager!!

When I think of the 8 stores in our local area, I can only recall 3-4 associates that are ABO certified. 

I still visit with many people from LC. Heck, I just gave them one of my old Rayban catalogs so they could know what styles they are missing, since when I was last there I helped a gentleman looking for the outdoorsman in photoyellow...It wasn't even in the LC computers...

I am glad things are much different for you. I just hope you are always as happy there as you are now...


So you take care of when the dog chews them up in the first week.. What happens when the lenses craze in 8 months? What is Scotchguard's Warranty? Do you have the same 2 year warranty on Lux frames that the private practice has, or how about Safilo? Marcolin? any of the other frame lines...

If someone has a Crizal Alize lens and it crazes or scratches in the first year (and in some places like mine 2 years) then we can replace them up to 2 times at no cost to them. You charge 50%...

If someone's Brooks Brothers frame broke at the solder point after 8 months, we would give them the benefit of the doubt, and consider it a defect unless it was obvious that there was abuse. My experience at LC was there are no defects after 30 days...Half of retail...

The quotas were not a certain dollar amount per day, but a "minimum expectation" This often pitted associates against each other, cause if one started with a patient, then stepped away to take a phone call, and another associate took over.. not only does the "He stole my sale!" thing involve associate incentives, but their actual performance rating as well. OR since some associates were much better at the techinical and troubleshooting areas, they were stuck doing dispensing, troubleshooting, and other such tasks, and not given the opportunity to perform. And it didn't matter if you only had one patient and all they wanted was lenses only for their own frame. Your one sale sucked and you were on notice...

FWIW in my current employers office, I have increased our average dollar by $80 and AR sales by 30%. Comparing YTD with last year, we are up by 20%... I would like to think I have something to do with that, since I do 75% of the sales.

I worked for the last several years of my tenure at a category B store. We didn't have 2000 styles. We had that many frames, but many were different sizes or colors of the same style. So for every 20 MODO frames you had, you only had 5-6 actual styles...


As I stated earlier.. I am glad things are different for you, and I wish you the best of luck.

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## Jubilee

> the dog thing is a little odd..but technically they can just return them within the first 30 days...so we do it! LOL
> as the for the cataract thing...how lacking in empathy are you that you are comfortable telling a nice old man that he is just going to have to forgo seeing anything, or reading, or driving, or watching tv or whatever because his old glasses don't work for him and his new RX will only work for about 2 months because his eyes are still healing. So this poor guy on a fixed income either has to try to shell out a whack load of cash for several sets of lenses or just accept not seeing for 6 months. remeber that when you are 70 and want to see your dinner.
> 
> the average optical/independant can't afford to do these types of things but as a company that can, i think we have a moral obligation to the community to provide this kind of service.


 
Well, for one, we sell our bifocal lenses for less than LC. Two, what we do in this situation is have them pay full cost for the first set, and then basically charge them cost on the 2nd set. When this is tallied together, it is about the same as LC. Win Win....

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## Barry Santini

> In my opinion, eyeglasses are unique medical devices .


Oh my, I have to disagree.  Glasses are *not* medical, nor are they a medical appliance.

A comprehensive eye exam is medical in nature.  Refocussing the eyet hrough eyewear  is nomore medical than refocussing a binocular, telescope or camera, etc.

Costco warranty on defect is one year.  On the 366th day after purchase, you're on your own!

Barry Santini ABOM

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## For-Life

> Oh my, I have to disagree. Glasses are *not* medical, nor are they a medical appliance.
> 
> A comprehensive eye exam is medical in nature. Refocussing the eyet hrough eyewear is nomore medical than refocussing a binocular, telescope or camera, etc.
> 
> Costco warranty on defect is one year. On the 366th day after purchase, you're on your own!
> 
> Barry Santini ABOM


 
The difference is that it has to be a lot more accurate and you cannot change it after that.  We do not work, drive, use the computer, read and watch tv through binoculars.  If the vision is annoying you can always remove them.  With glasses we have to see clearly and all of the time.

That is why you can buy binoculars at any store, but need an optician to fit glasses.

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## snowmonster

Ditto to everything Jubilee just said.  Her experiences at LC were identical to mine as far as turnaround time, product availability, etc.

And Jubilee is totally right about the replacement/warranty ideas.  The LC "warranty" of paying 1/2 to get the job redone is atrocious.  Yet people do it every day.

   -Steve

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## rainchild

> Ditto to everything Jubilee just said. Her experiences at LC were identical to mine as far as turnaround time, product availability, etc.
> 
> And Jubilee is totally right about the replacement/warranty ideas. The LC "warranty" of paying 1/2 to get the job redone is atrocious. Yet people do it every day.
> 
> -Steve


 
the 50 % co-pay is only applied to abuse situations...IE  I slept on them, I drove over them.  If a solder point lets go or a coating peels or some such obvious defect we replace at no charge.

it is a real shame jubilee, that the state you are in does not require rigorous training of its opticians.  Up here the course is 2 years long and we are required to maintain continuing education credits throughout our career.

the fast turn around time has been the case for the last year (in Canada at least...I thought the US was the same)

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## snowmonster

Yeah, they always charged that at the store I was at whenever somebody had a scratch issue or frame breakage issue.

What always amazed me was that they never even offered a scratch warranty (for a fee) on the lenses for anything, including their Scotchguard AR coating.

As far as the 2,000 frame choice thing goes, Cassandra is right in that you have a decent number of frames but the variety is only in the color choices and multiple eye sizes of the same frame.

I would put my frame selection up against LC any day of the week now.

-Steve

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## AxisTurner

Jubilee, you said pretty much everything I was sitting here thinking!!  Being a -FORMER-, 12 year employee of Lenscrafters I was quite amazed at all these wonderful "transformations" that have apparently taken place since I left a little under a year ago! (now work for a private optical office and words cannot describe the relief of being gone from that place)! 

Now, I will give the benefit of the doubt about operating procedures maybe being different between the U.S. and Canada.  As far as in the U.S. and according to "my sources" who still work there, all you can offer a patient who wants a Varilux is the "Comfort" which don't get me wrong, is a great lens... but the Varilux at dear old LC is considered a $100 "add on" above the standard (Ovation I think it is now) progressive.  We sell ours (Comfort) for just somewhat over half of the total cost of a Varilux at LC!  I just talked to a friend last week who works there (LC) and asked what the highest index lens was they could get "1.67" was the reply! Once again, few choices... for which you pay dearly for!!

The part that used to irritate me the most  was the arguing over the now infamous "30 day guarantee"... O.K... so they plaster this crap everywhere about the "30 day thing" EVERYWHERE... T.V., Radio, Coupon inserts in the paper... "If you don't like them return them"... O.K... picture this scenario... patient comes in 1 week after purchase  and has scratched lenses.  "Me" (going to "manager") "Ms. Jones got these last week and has scratched the lenses, how do you want to handle it".  "Manager" Tell her she has to pay the BPP (Breakage Protection Plan) which is 1/2 the original cost of the lenses".  "Me" "But they under 30 days old, you know what she is going to say"  "Manager" "Try to get that BPP first no matter what"!  "Me" "Ms. Jones, you have to pay half the cost of the lenses to replace them" "Ms. Jones" "But they are under 30 days old and your Ad's say....".... And on and on it goes... Essentially we were told to pester the mortal crap out of them for the BPP charge and then just when the irrate customer looked just about 1 minute away from a full blown stroke we could say "o.k., we can make one exception"...  I mean...  ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS RETURN THEM AND BUY THEM AGAIN!!  I don't agree with all this 30 day stupidity either but if you are going to advertise it why make the customer so mad that they will likely never come back over a situation like the above?? (and that situation was repeated MANY times I'm afraid).
And as far as "goals" (NUMBERS) at the store where I worked... Shortly before I left one of the sales associates got pulled aside and was told... and this is pretty much word for word... "We don't care how much you know, how much you smile, or how much your customers like you... the only thing that matters at the end of the day are your numbers on the SHAPE report" (LC's daily numbers)  Wow, what a great incentive!! :( 

Rainchild, I am glad you are in your "utopia"... Maybe something magical happens when you cross the border into Canada!!  Maybe more products are available, customer satisfaction matters, and managers actually have optical experience and weren't just hired in from the clothing store down the hall to run an optical store!!  All I can say is that after I left my store within 4 months 6 more had left... and that doesn't include the many, many more that have left from others stores in the area/region.  I honestly cannot tell you one person that I know in this area that is happy there, and that is sad.  At one time it was a good place to work for.  Unfortunately, greed and "corporate" have taken it's toll. 

Sorry this is long, but just needed to say this!

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## shellrob

> the dog thing is a little odd..but technically they can just return them within the first 30 days...so we do it! LOL
> as the for the cataract thing...how lacking in empathy are you that you are comfortable telling a nice old man that he is just going to have to forgo seeing anything, or reading, or driving, or watching tv or whatever because his old glasses don't work for him and his new RX will only work for about 2 months because his eyes are still healing. So this poor guy on a fixed income either has to try to shell out a whack load of cash for several sets of lenses or just accept not seeing for 6 months. remeber that when you are 70 and want to see your dinner.
> 
> the average optical/independant can't afford to do these types of things but as a company that can, i think we have a moral obligation to the community to provide this kind of service.


Things really must be different here. Several sets of lenses are generally not needed. Special circumstances do arise, however. But in those circumstances if the patient is needing a change in rx after receiving the first pair, it's up to them to pay for them. The lab doesn't redo the lenses for me for free, so why would I remake the lenses for a patient for free? That makes no sense, but like I said, cost and factors must be different now in Canada according to Chris' remark. 

Plus, how can you make a set of glasses immediate post op surgery? You can't get an accurate refraction anyhow?  Course, what kind of surgery are we talking about here? I guess I was referring to cataract surgery.....

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## k12311997

I'd like to say two things.

1. It is amazing how organic these threads are it started with what is Costco's warranty and changed to an argument over what LC can and can't get and how fair they are with both customers and employees.

2. I worked in four LC stores during my time with the company 7 years ago. The company at the time definitely presented it self as a good place to work. good health care, generous time off, reciprocal arrangements with other large companies.  However my last location was the third largest in the local area, had 13 year old cylinder machines that were never properly taken care of long before my two years there and had well outlived their lives. We came close to spending more rebuilding the machines than a new one would have cost. At the time assistant lab management was salary I spent several nights till two am rebuilding one or two of the machines of the four we had when none of them were functioning properly to make sure we could operate the next day. And it was a good thing I had the owners manual because I was never trained to rebuild a cylinder machine but I was still expected to do it.  I just plain old burnt out with all the mandatory unpaid OT I was putting in I could have made more per hour flipping burgers.  For every LC employee that has been there for 10 or more years you will find 10 ex employees that rainchild would label as disgruntled all of whom are still in the optical field and have found a location that values their knowledge, ability and individuality as much as their "numbers"

In my honest opinion LC as a company is nothing more than business plans and ideas ( ones which many of us disagree with).  The thing that makes many of the individual locations bad places to have worked are the people trying to implement the ideas, General and Regional Managers who think it looks like they are doing their jobs by destroying the morale of the employees by motivating by fear instead of reward, by threatening instead of instructing.

Rainchild I am happy you have a good place to work please don't assume because of your experience that all LC are or were the same pleasant work environment and belittle my fellow disgruntled ex employees.

to everyone else at first thought I would lump Rainchild in the brainwashed drone category, but it is possible that the management in her area are supportive and truly interested in pt care.  That would be a far stretch from my personal experience. but I will allow that it could be possible.

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## Chris Ryser

> *Oh my, I have to disagree. Glasses are *not* medical, nor are they a medical appliance*.


*The FDA does not think so and acts different*. Frames and lenses are in the device category...................but not only that............anything that goes on lenses like a coating or tint that is destined to go, or be put on lenses is under FDA jurisdiction.

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## Barry Santini

> *The FDA does not think so and acts different*. Frames and lenses are in the device category...................but not only that............anything that goes on lenses like a coating or tint that is destined to go, or be put on lenses is under FDA jurisdiction.


Well hello, Chris!

BTW, no one ever said the FDA was always right...

For my money, all I want is a consistent tenor about eyewear...either it is medical...or its not!

If its not, then let's let anyone, anytime and anywhere, by what they want without the need to be refracted by a *medical professional (or his like).

If it is medical, then let stop all internet/mail-order/OTC distribution of these medical devices, and...this is my favorite...

...let's stop referring to the Rx "hand-off" in an office where the refracting doctor (OD or MD) has an in house dispensary. If eyewear is deteremined to be medical, then this practice as unethical as an in house pharmacy hand-off.

Oh, and by the way, it does seem the FDA and FTC have regulations designed to handle the hand-off already... WELL LET"S ENFORCE THEM, for ***s sake!

My two cents

Barry Santini, ABOM

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## Barry Santini

> The difference is that it has to be a lot more accurate and you cannot change it after that. We do not work, drive, use the computer, read and watch tv through binoculars. If the vision is annoying you can always remove them. With glasses we have to see clearly and all of the time.
> 
> That is why you can buy binoculars at any store, but need an optician to fit glasses.


Really, eyewear and accuracy?? is that ever an oxymoron. 

Eyewear does not have to be accurate...it only has to be *appropriate* for that individual's desired needs and *present* vision...at the time of delivery. Vision is fluid....so much for accuracy...

If driving is the real true social consequence of non-optimal distance vision, then let's, as a society, agree to this point and mandate acuity checks for driving to a much stricter standard (and more consistent from state to state) and frequency.

In NY, it's every 8 years...what a joke!
And in NY they test at 6 (six!) feet! Oh my god! What are they thinking at the NYS DMV...!

You need an optician to fit glasses? Not in my state! And where are the opticians in the internet delivery system? Are they virtual?

All I desire is a consistent approach on eyewear. Let's agree whether it is or isn't medical, and then be consistent (across the country) and down the distribution line with this agreement in mind.

Anything else is simply duplicitous.

Barry Santini, ABOM

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## William Walker

I would love to see unity in the approach of optics - from answers to questions like 'are glasses/contacts medical' to 'what defines an optician', and in areas like making concrete, enforceable guidelines similiar to ANSI, and finding people to go around and actually enforcing them.  I'd like to see an end to ODs, MD, and corporations ignoring licensing requirements during operating hours.  As a licensed optition with a degree, I'd like to see a degree being part of the requirements to sit for a state board exam - which I'd like to see in each state.  I'd also like the respect other professions are given when you take years of hard work in order to be where you are, instead of being thought of as a sales person.

     Unfortunately, we can't find unity in the less than 20 people who have posted in this thread alone - and this is a community of optically educated people.  How could we ask that others outside our field share a consistent view of our profession, when we ourselves are not sending them a consistent message to begin with?

     I'd really like to see a poll on some of these questions, to get a greater number of people to weigh in.

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## rainchild

wOW...People seem to have had it very badly at LC.  The things described as being said to employees re sales results just can't happen the same in Canada...we can coach and set expectations but as long as the associate is genuinely trying to meet standard....their job is pretty safe..(different labour codes maybe?)  

Axis turner....up here the 30 day policy is no hassel...no question.  I had 2 situations today....kids glasses...3 weeks old, run over by another kid during a soccer match.   My associate didn't even ask me...she just replaced them.   Another guys kid pulled the arm off his glasses after 6 weeks...we gave him a new frame, no charge.  Maybe Canadians are just more laid back in how we do business.

k12319997...I'm definately not a drone!  LMAO!  I get ****** off at work just like anyone else...but overall I'm still really happy after all these years.  Oh...and I'm one of those managers hired from the clothing store to manage the optical!  :D   It doesn't take optical knowledge to run a business...but I did sign up for the Opticians course immediately because I wanted to have credibility with my associates and opticians.

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## Molster

Truly do you think that is the best way to handle a situation with blowing up at someone.  You are right about the managers giving in but what has happened to the public's morals and values to themselves and to others.  I agree with Nettie, that if it's handled maturely it just works best.... :Smile:

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## Chris Ryser

Wow .......................this is an old consumer thread from the way back machine

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## Molster

> Truly do you think that is the best way to handle a situation with blowing up at someone.  You are right about the managers giving in but what has happened to the public's morals and values to themselves and to others.  I agree with Nettie, that if it's handled maturely it just works best....


 Obviously I have a little to learn about Forums.  Didn't notice the date....

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## Molster

> Wow .......................this is an old consumer thread from the way back machine


I am new to using forums, didn't see the date.

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## Westlake Envision

I always like Johns straightforward intelligent responses . 


> Who cares? They can scream all they want at the chains to get whatever they want...
> 
> ...Do it in my store and it just gets you kicked out. (Indpendents are ALLOWED to do that!)

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