# Conversation and Fun > Just Conversation >  ABOM Questions

## Dvaladez

:Confused: i'm currently thinking about taking the ABOM exam. i just barely found out about it. And it sounds interesting.. i've heard that a master optician can perform eye exams and write RX's

is ne of that true?

and what is the hourly salary?

----------


## D.J. Roff, ABOM

> i'm currently thinking about taking the ABOM exam. i just barely found out about it. And it sounds interesting.. i've heard that a master optician can perform eye exams and write RX's
> 
> is ne of that true?
> 
> and what is the hourly salary?


It's actually the Advanced Certification exam.  I took mine about 7 years ago, and it is MUCH more difficult than the regular ABO.  After that, you have to write a paper (and have it accepted), and I believe they've instituted a course equivalency now that has to be met, before you can be granted the ABOM.

Doesn't automatically guarantee a higher salary... just a sign to your patients (and employer) that they're getting top-notch care.  

D

----------


## Dvaladez

> it's actually the advanced certification exam. I took mine about 7 years ago, and it is much more difficult than the regular abo. After that, you have to write a paper (and have it accepted), and i believe they've instituted a course equivalency now that has to be met, before you can be granted the abom.
> 
> Doesn't automatically guarantee a higher salary... Just a sign to your patients (and employer) that they're getting top-notch care. 
> 
> D


ok cuz i heard about it from my manager n i took a look at the abo/ncle website n it only mentioned the thesis paper but not a test.
Do u really get to preform eye exams?
Or do u do the same thing except ur title would show ppl that u have greater knowledge than a regular optician.

----------


## Fezz

Start here:

http://www.abo-ncle.org/

Read the info a bit more, it is all in there.

You must take the ABO regular test first. And pass.

You must then take the advanced certification test. And pass.

http://www.abo-ncle.org/advancedcertification/

----------


## Fezz

> Do u really get to preform eye exams?
> Or do u do the same thing except ur title would show ppl that u have greater knowledge than a regular optician.


No. 

You will be the same beating pulse after the test as before.

----------


## D.J. Roff, ABOM

[QUOTE=Dvaladez;325934] :Confused: i've heard that a master optician can perform eye exams and write RX's

is ne of that true?QUOTE]

Some states allow opticians to do refractions, it just varies state-to-state.  I think this is mainly in the 22+ states that have licensure for opticians, but I could be wrong.  The ABOM itself doesn't confer that credential.  It just lets folks know you're serious about what you do.

----------


## Uilleann

> ...Doesn't automatically guarantee a higher salary... just a sign to your patients (and employer) that they're getting top-notch care.  
> 
> D


Which sadly, I would wager that 99.9% of patients _AND_ employers won't actually give a toss about.  Patients (meaning the general eyeglass buying public) don't even know what ABO or licensure even entails let alone what it means to their own quality of care.  They go to the eye doc for glasses, and rarely will they ever read the diplomas, certificates, licenses and other pretty papers hung so carefully on the wall.  If they do - they really don't understand what they may actually represent in terms of quality of care, knowledge, experience and expertise in the field.

Most employers (ODs, MDs and the like) may have a better understanding of course, however, I would again wager that probably 95% of _THEM_ won't pay you what you *should* be worth to them as an educated, extremely qualified, highly skilled health care provider.  In many cases, you're still just a lab guy, a dispenser, a frame stylist...etc. who is costing them a disproportionately high salary compared to the other lesser skilled workers who are "capable" of doing the "same" job for far far less.

With an ABOM, you can work hard and strike out on your own, hit the lecture circuit, present CE, consult and so forth...and you *might* be able to secure a better living wage.  But even that can be a pretty tenuous *might*.  Not trying to discourage you from bettering yourself, and the profession - quite the opposite...but you also want to go into it with a realistic idea of what you can expect to get out of it - apart from the obvious greater personal knowledge.

All the best!

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

----------


## Fezz

> Which sadly, I would wager that 99.9% of patients _AND_ employers won't actually give a toss about. Patients (meaning the general eyeglass buying public) don't even know what ABO or licensure even entails let alone what it means to their own quality of care. They go to the eye doc for glasses, and rarely will they ever read the diplomas, certificates, licenses and other pretty papers hung so carefully on the wall. If they do - they really don't understand what they may actually represent in terms of quality of care, knowledge, experience and expertise in the field.
> 
> Most employers (ODs, MDs and the like) may have a better understanding of course, however, I would again wager that probably 95% of _THEM_ won't pay you what you *should* be worth to them as an educated, extremely qualified, highly skilled health care provider. In many cases, you're still just a lab guy, a dispenser, a frame stylist...etc. who is costing them a disproportionately high salary compared to the other lesser skilled workers who are "capable" of doing the "same" job for far far less.
> 
> With an ABOM, you can work hard and strike out on your own, hit the lecture circuit, present CE, consult and so forth...and you *might* be able to secure a better living wage. But even that can be a pretty tenuous *might*. Not trying to discourage you from bettering yourself, and the profession - quite the opposite...but you also want to go into it with a realistic idea of what you can expect to get out of it - apart from the obvious greater personal knowledge.
> 
> All the best!
> 
> :cheers::cheers::cheers:


Very well said!

Sadly, it has been my experience that the more that you know in this business, the less employable you become. Look in the Job Forum. Read the ads. See what skills are asked for. Look at how many years experience.....if any is required. Your experience and certificates may raise a red flag with potential employers that you will cost much more than someone else.

If you want to learn more and prove to yourself that you can do it, go for it! Do it for yourself, not for somebody else.

----------


## D.J. Roff, ABOM

> Very well said!
> 
> Sadly, it has been my experience that the more that you know in this business, the less employable you become. Look in the Job Forum. Read the ads. See what skills are asked for. Look at how many years experience.....if any is required. Your experience and certificates may raise a red flag with potential employers that you will cost much more than someone else.
> 
> If you want to learn more and prove to yourself that you can do it, go for it! Do it for yourself, not for somebody else.


Absolutely correct.  There are many employers in the field who are looking for someone with "experience" -- but not TOO much of it.  On the other hand, depending on where you want to be, this can help weed out the good employers from the bad... i.e., the ones who are concerned with quality care for their patients will go out of their way to hire you.  The cheap chains and chop-shops will leave you alone -- which may be a good thing!

----------


## Uilleann

So how about it docs on the forum here - you guys willing to step up and pay for quality employees?  Is 60-80K a worthy expense to you for each and every highly skilled, qualified and knowledgeable asset to your growing practices?

Or do we stay down in the lowly and completely un-livable 20-30K range because you feel you can get away with it?  Do you continue to "pay" only for the basics and keep the lion's share for Caribbean vacations and fancy dinner meetings at the local golf club?

There are a few here who obviously value the knowledge of their peers, co-workers and would certainly step up and pay for said skills - clearly aware of the value and prestige it affords their practice.  Sadly, much like the banking industry, there are few willing to perform top notch work, for paltry wages.

ABO M=masters, advanced and even to a lesser extent ABO and state licensure are sadly, severely undervalued in today's employment market.  Organizing against this trend could be a step...but not so long as employers are only willing to pay a 'burger and fries' type wage and continue to demand skilled medical professional duties.

[/rant]

:shiner::p:cheers::cheers::cheers:

----------


## Rogo99

That's what I was talking about in my "See The Light" post on one of the other threads.  No matter your credentials, you're gonna get paid the same by the insurance companies, and if you work for somebody else, you're gonna get paid less than most professionals.  Yes, it looks good to have the certificates on the wall, but in the long run, your skills and business sense will speak for themselves.

----------


## rounded optician

went on an interview last week.  It was more to see what's out there than anything else.  Bad sign #1 gave my name to what turned out to be "the manager" and he gave me a puzzled look.  #2 he asked me to have a seat for a minute and while I sat there the girl that seemed to working her *** off in the lab gave me a dirty look.  During the 10 minute interview I was told that "we like to hire someone for a one month "trial period, to see if they're a good fit."  I asked "what exactly are you looking for?"  His reply...."mostly personality, we can always teach the optical stuff."  Then he went on to tell me that his present "trial" had been there about two weeks and if she didn't work out he would call me.  I told him "don't bother."  First of all the interview process is where you should determine if someone would be a good fit.  I guess you can't determine that in 10 minutes.  How would you like to be the poor girl in the lab, who obviously really, really needed a job to take one under those conditions.  Then while you're still trying to figure out where the keep the screwdrivers around there they're interviewing people for your job!!  And can you really tell what you've got in an employee in a month?? In today's economy this is an absolute disgrace!  I have 30 yrs. experience, that's 10 minutes of my life I wish I could have back!!  It's a shame that a few desperate people will have to pay for this "manager's" lack of interviewing skills......  Sorry, just venting..... If you're in the Philly area and looking, pm me, I'll let you know who this jackass is so you don't waste your time!!:angry:

----------


## Fezz

> If you're in the Philly area and looking, pm me, I'll let you know who this jackass is so you don't waste your time!!:angry:


I think you are too late. It seems this type of VERMIN is mating and reproducing at an alarming rate. I am getting reports of these type of inept WINGNUTS from all across this country! It seems like they have taken over the industry!

Great post!

Sad...very sad, but even worse...true!

----------


## D.J. Roff, ABOM

> went on an interview last week. It was more to see what's out there than anything else. Bad sign #1 gave my name to what turned out to be "the manager" and he gave me a puzzled look. #2 he asked me to have a seat for a minute and while I sat there the girl that seemed to working her *** off in the lab gave me a dirty look. During the 10 minute interview I was told that "we like to hire someone for a one month "trial period, to see if they're a good fit." I asked "what exactly are you looking for?" His reply...."mostly personality, we can always teach the optical stuff." Then he went on to tell me that his present "trial" had been there about two weeks and if she didn't work out he would call me. I told him "don't bother." First of all the interview process is where you should determine if someone would be a good fit. I guess you can't determine that in 10 minutes. How would you like to be the poor girl in the lab, who obviously really, really needed a job to take one under those conditions. Then while you're still trying to figure out where the keep the screwdrivers around there they're interviewing people for your job!! And can you really tell what you've got in an employee in a month?? In today's economy this is an absolute disgrace! I have 30 yrs. experience, that's 10 minutes of my life I wish I could have back!! It's a shame that a few desperate people will have to pay for this "manager's" lack of interviewing skills...... Sorry, just venting..... If you're in the Philly area and looking, pm me, I'll let you know who this jackass is so you don't waste your time!!:angry:


LOL!  I was looking for work last summer, and got an interview off CraigsList.  It turned out to be a good hour's drive for me (from Delaware to up near Coatesville, PA, and when I got there, the OD (who seemed much more interested in my sales skills than my optical expertise) said he'd reached an agreement with the girl who had been leaving, and she was staying after all... and might I be willing to work 2-3 days per week, so we could "see how I work out"?  I told him it wouldn't be worth my time.  Don't you suppose he could have let me know, before driving 60 minutes for the interview, that he no longer had the full-time position available??  What planet do these people come from?

----------


## Uncle Fester

> What planet do these people come from?


Uranus

----------


## Fezz

> LOL! I was looking for work last summer, and got an interview off CraigsList. It turned out to be a good hour's drive for me (from Delaware to up near Coatesville, PA, and when I got there, the OD (who seemed much more interested in my sales skills than my optical expertise) said he'd reached an agreement with the girl who had been leaving, and she was staying after all... and might I be willing to work 2-3 days per week, so we could "see how I work out"? I told him it wouldn't be worth my time. Don't you suppose he could have let me know, before driving 60 minutes for the interview, that he no longer had the full-time position available?? What planet do these people come from?


 
Hey...............That is almost in my back yard!

Oh yeah.......this area is a breeding ground for MORONS. They all want Super Sales Person, Ultra office *manager* type, who can do all insurance, billing, appt. making, check-ins and outs, sales, screenings, contact dispensing, eyewear sales, eyewear dispensing, optical genius, and hopefully you have some experience, but they are willing to train!

Hey, for the hefty some of $7.87 an hour, they want their moneies worth!

 :cry: :cheers::cheers::shiner:

----------


## D.J. Roff, ABOM

> Hey...............That is almost in my back yard!
> 
> Oh yeah.......this area is a breeding ground for MORONS. They all want Super Sales Person, Ultra office *manager* type, who can do all insurance, billing, appt. making, check-ins and outs, sales, screenings, contact dispensing, eyewear sales, eyewear dispensing, optical genius, and hopefully you have some experience, but they are willing to train!
> 
> Hey, for the hefty some of $7.87 an hour, they want their moneies worth!
> 
> :cheers::cheers::shiner:


Sadsburyville, to be exact.  The guy used to be an OD for Wally World in Coatesville, and bragged how he'd set up shop just one mile outside his "non-compete" area -- so he could steal their patients. 

Point is, he was so happy to have retained the girl who'd been leaving... NOT because she was a skilled optician, but because "she could sell ice cubes to Eskimos", in his own words.  All too typical, unfortunately.

----------


## GAgal

An optician gets their ABO-AC, NCLE-AC, ABOM AND FCLSA for their own satisfaction, not to get more money. Unfortunately, there is not much of a market out there for these individuals unless its as a speaker or educator. However, I would still recommend that you get them for your own sense of accomplishment. It is also important to say that I know a lot of opticians out there who do not have a higher level of certification that I would put up against any ABOM any day :D

----------


## Pete Hanlin

I used to have patients ask what my "ABOM" certificate was all about (it was displayed in the dispensary).  I used to reply _"Well, it just indicates I'm supposed to know what I'm doing!"_ 

Although I went after the ABOM "just because," I would say it has opened some doors (actually, I'm pretty sure it played a significant role in landing two different positions- including my initial hire by Essilor).  I took the "old exam," which was also quite challenging (more formulas than the current exam- but less broad in its scope, IMO- today's ABO-AC covers a LOT of ground).

I know two people who have recently passed the ABO-AC exam and are currently working on their papers- I look forward to welcoming both of them to the "ABOM club."

:)

----------


## D.J. Roff, ABOM

> I used to have patients ask what my "ABOM" certificate was all about (it was displayed in the dispensary). I used to reply _"Well, it just indicates I'm supposed to know what I'm doing!"_ 
> 
> Although I went after the ABOM "just because," I would say it has opened some doors (actually, I'm pretty sure it played a significant role in landing two different positions- including my initial hire by Essilor). 
> :)


Mine is displayed, too, and I tell them that it simply means I'm serious about what I do.  Gives them confidence in me.

Having that certification did play a big part in getting my current position.  This doctor values expertise.   When she called me for the interview, she noted that I'd obtained the ABOM, "so we know you're not a McTician".  :bbg:

----------


## GAgal

> I know two people who have recently passed the ABO-AC exam and are currently working on their papers- I look forward to welcoming both of them to the "ABOM club."
> 
> :)


Just out of curiosity, how many on here are planning on submitting their Master's paper? I know that Wes, Harry and I are working on them...anyone else?

----------


## Fezz

Not me!!!!

----------


## GAgal

You don't need it Fezz...I already know you're the man, the myth, the legend:cheers::cheers: I can't wait til we can get back together for some beers...Murphy's anyone?

----------


## Rogo99

Excuse me for being Mr. Cynical here, but I must agree with anyone who thinks that the ABO is overall not worth it. I took the very first test in 1979 (I have certificate # 01276).  I finished it in less than 30 minutes (I'll presume it's more difficult now).  Since then I might have updated it once or twice with the CE, paid for the updated sticker, and not really made much more working for other people.  Yes, they like it, but getting an extra 25c per hour really isn't saying much. I think it's the fractious optician's organizations, not really working hard for better wages or professional standing.  Why are these leaders not even wearing glasses?  Or really outstanding ones?   Like I have said, you can do better financially if you are entrepreneurial, but you'll still get reimbursed the same from insurance whether you have degrees and certifications or not.  Your customers/patients and business acumen will let you know.

----------


## Pete Hanlin

This isn't meant as a personal criticism to the previous post- but rather as a general response to anyone who is cynical about the practice of Opticianry and certification.

What you get out of certification- as with most things in life- is usually pretty equal to what you put into it.

First, the ABOC designation is a designation of minimal competence by design (that is, the NOCE is designed to require a minimum level of competence for successful completion). It amuses me when people who have been in the industry 10 years or so take the exam and then ridicule it for being "too easy." (Not saying you've done this...) It SHOULD be easy for an experienced Optician to pass the NOCE.

Second, the reason the great profession of Opticianry has been wallowing in legislative limbo for 20+ years (I think its been at least 2 decades since a new state has added licensure for Opticians) is the total disregard for formal education by Opticians. I say this as someone who has never received formal Opticianry eduction, btw- so I'm not preaching from an ivory tower. Optometry figured out long ago that you must "educate- THEN legislate." They've successfully gained both therapeutic and diagnostic drug privileges in every state because they endeavored to include their proper use in their curriculum prior to lobbying for the necessary legislation. On the other hand, most Opticians shy away from even attending overly techincal CE courses. Its hard for our societies to "get more done" when a.) few people are members, b.) few people volunteer to serve, and c.) many individuals in the profession do not take the field seriously (I refer to the large number of "transitory frame stylists" who take on opticianry as a side job or second income with no intention of staying in the field- nothing wrong with that- it just doesn't help build a foundation that can be built upon).

Finally, as with all things YOU determine how professional, successful, etc. YOU are. If you view yourself as a professional optician (and act accordingly, which involves actively pursuing education, becoming involved in the profession, etc.), you _will_ be a professional optician. The upside of opticianry right now is this- ANYONE can rise to the top of this profession. Grab a copy of Borish's System for Ophthalmic Dispensing, read it cover to cover, find an office where you can be mentored by someone who knows what s/he is doing, and ask tons of questions. Then, work on your presentation skills, and bam- you can be in the top tier of ophthalmic educators (and we're currently undergoing a changing of the guard- the current greats are fading away, and we need young blood to speak to tomorrow's Opticians).  Better yet, find an opticianry program (like the one at Hillsboro Community College in Tampa) and receive a formal education in Opticianry (but for those for whom this is impossible, if you are determined, you can self-study and build a successful career following the path mentioned above).  For a bright high school grad who doesn't know what to do with life, you can do a lot worse than choosing Opticianry as a profession!

Opticianry is an AWESOME profession! I wish more people would commit to it as a career. Gaining the ABOC is just the first logical step in building a successful career in a field where there is ALWAYS something new to learn.

OPTICIANRY- its not just a job, its an adventure! ;)

----------


## Uilleann

Wow Pete!  If there were a little smiley face that was a standing ovation, I'd be clicking on it right now repeatedly!  That's very very well spoken and a perfect insight into our current "status"!  :cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

----------


## opticianbart

> wow pete! If there were a little smiley face that was a standing ocation, i'd be clicking on it right now repeatedly! That's very very well spoken and a perfect insight into our current "status"! :cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:


 
+1

----------


## GAgal

> +1


Meeee toooo!!!!!

----------


## LandLord

Voluntary, unnecessary designations like ABOM will always be second class citizens to mandatory, regulatory licenses.

----------

