# Optical Forums > Ophthalmic Optics >  Anti-slip coating for super hydrophobic lenses

## Websta

Is there anyone who is able to provide me with any information on how we could apply a anti-slip coating over our super hydrophobic coated lenses?
We have tried numerous blocking pads, and the best is from Essilor and Weco, but we need something more substantial as our loss on wasted lenses is getting out of control.

If someone can give me a supplier who provides a coating or a special pad that we can use, I would be very interested.

Thanks

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## AWTECH

*I have tried these as we use a super hydrophobic and they seem to work great.* 
*see www.optochemicals.com*

*Non slip "HOOKER" blocking pads, the Latest Invention From OMS Opto Chemicals*

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## Jacqui

We tried the Hooker pads and are completely satisfied with them. Ask Chris Ryser for samples.

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## mauroventura

Hello Websta,
I know that essilor in its Crizal Alizee use a special temporary coating to avoid problem during the edging phase.
My Opinion is that this coating could be a very thin layer of Magnesium Fluoride MgF2 ( search it to  Cerac inorganics USA , Phone 001-414-289-9800 Fax 001-414-289-9805)


bye

Mauro Ventura

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## coda

> Hello Websta,
> I know that essilor in its Crizal Alizee use a special temporary coating to avoid problem during the edging phase.
> My Opinion is that this coating could be a very thin layer of Magnesium Fluoride MgF2 ( search it to Cerac inorganics USA , Phone 001-414-289-9800 Fax 001-414-289-9805)


That would imply that the MgF is applied _over_ the hydrophobic coating.  This seems pretty unlikely though if the hydrophobic coating is applied in the vacuum chamber it is possible.  Low temperature processed MgF is water soluable so it would wash away after/during edging but would probably survive for a while under the block.

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## Judy Canty

> *I have tried these as we use a super hydrophobic and they seem to work great.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *see www.optochemicals.com*
> 
> *Non slip "HOOKER" blocking pads, the Latest Invention From OMS Opto Chemicals*


Chris,
Can I get a sample of this product to try?

Judy Canty

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## mauroventura

Hello Coda.
Yes, you're right!  I mean a very thin MGF layer applied at Cold temperature over the hydrophobic layer; at the end of the AR process.
I don't know any other kind of material that keep to increase temporary the surface energy of lens so that optician people can work lens.

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## FROMONT CHRISTINE

ii HAVE A GOOD SOLUTION FOR BLOCKING THE HYDROPHOBIC LENSES : WE HAVE NOW SPECIAL BLOCKING PADS ADAPTED AND LENSES DOESN'T SLIDE  
Actually on promotion  please fax at CMV 33 04 79 63 02 71 for details
Christine FROMONT:) 



QUOTE=Websta]Is there anyone who is able to provide me with any information on how we could apply a anti-slip coating over our super hydrophobic coated lenses?
We have tried numerous blocking pads, and the best is from Essilor and Weco, but we need something more substantial as our loss on wasted lenses is getting out of control.

If someone can give me a supplier who provides a coating or a special pad that we can use, I would be very interested.

Thanks[/QUOTE]

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## FROMONT CHRISTINE

[hYE DEAR MAURO VENTURA?

It is funny to contact you there. Well if you have problem also with the hydrophobic lenses, you know CMV Optique in France of course.... I can help.
Kindly
Christine





QUOTE=mauroventura]Hello Websta,
I know that essilor in its Crizal Alizee use a special temporary coating to avoid problem during the edging phase.
My Opinion is that this coating could be a very thin layer of Magnesium Fluoride MgF2 ( search it to Cerac inorganics USA , Phone 001-414-289-9800 Fax 001-414-289-9805)


bye

Mauro Ventura[/QUOTE]

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## FROMONT CHRISTINE

WE ARE MANUFACTURING PAD PRINTING MACHINES FOR MARKING THE PROGRESSIVE LENSES AT VERY VERY COMPETITIVE PRICE. FOR MORE DETAILS  CMV@CMV.NET IN FRANCE










> Is there anyone who is able to provide me with any information on how we could apply a anti-slip coating over our super hydrophobic coated lenses?
> We have tried numerous blocking pads, and the best is from Essilor and Weco, but we need something more substantial as our loss on wasted lenses is getting out of control.
> 
> If someone can give me a supplier who provides a coating or a special pad that we can use, I would be very interested.
> 
> Thanks

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## FROMONT CHRISTINE

We are also manufacturing pads special adapted for super hydrophobic lenses and lenses doesn't slide  cmv@cmv.net:) 








> WE ARE MANUFACTURING PAD PRINTING MACHINES FOR MARKING THE PROGRESSIVE LENSES AT VERY VERY COMPETITIVE PRICE. FOR MORE DETAILS CMV@CMV.NET IN FRANCE


:)

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## QDO1

lets keep the adverts in the right forum

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## fjpod

> Is there anyone who is able to provide me with any information on how we could apply a anti-slip coating over our super hydrophobic coated lenses?
> We have tried numerous blocking pads, and the best is from Essilor and Weco, but we need something more substantial as our loss on wasted lenses is getting out of control.
> 
> If someone can give me a supplier who provides a coating or a special pad that we can use, I would be very interested.
> 
> Thanks


We use generic lens protectors without problems.  But, you should really look at whether your edger wheel or blade is SHARP.  Dull cutting leads to increased friction and heat under the pad as the lens turns on the wheel resulting in rotation and A/R crazing.  With sharp cutting surfaces, I don't think you need any non-slip coatings or protectors at all.

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## keithbenjamin

Our customers have had some luck, depending on the edger, by simply cleaning the lens with denatured alcohol or acetone prior to blocking. I know that scares a lot of people, but it's what Zeiss has recommended for the Advantage. Barring that, the Hooker pads have seemed to work well on a variety of edgers.

-Keith

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## fjpod

> Our customers have had some luck, depending on the edger, by simply cleaning the lens with denatured alcohol or acetone prior to blocking. I know that scares a lot of people, but it's what Zeiss has recommended for the Advantage. Barring that, the Hooker pads have seemed to work well on a variety of edgers.
> 
> -Keith


I've heard you shouldn't do this (alcohol/acetone) with Crizal Alize, because they put a temporary coating the lens to prevent it from slipping in the edger.

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## Chris Ryser

> *Chris,*
> *Can I get a sample of this product to try?*
> 
> *Judy Canty*


Of course Judy,

Just send me an e-mail as well anybody else who wants some Hooker pad samples, at oms_optical@yahoo.com

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## sujeet

Hello Mauroventura, 

I was wondering about the MgF2 coating that Essilore applies. Do you think thay have a Patent on this. I was told by someone. 
Regards,

Sujeet

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## coda

You can allways search the US patent office site for issued US patents.  Go to:  www.uspto.gov.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a similar site for European patents, I just don't know what it is.  Seems like the sort of thing Chris would know.

-Matt

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## Darryl Meister

> I was wondering about the MgF2 coating that Essilore applies. Do you think thay have a Patent on this


I doubt Essilor would have a patent on the use of Magnesium Fluoride (at least by itself), since as far as I know the material was used in some of the first antireflective coatings, which were invented by Smakula at Zeiss in the 1930s.

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## coda

> I doubt Essilor would have a patent on the use of Magnesium Fluoride (at least by itself), since as far as I know the material was used in some of the first antireflective coatings, which were invented by Smakula at Zeiss in the 1930s.


Very true but they may have a product patent on it's use as a removable stiction improving coating.

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## Darryl Meister

> Very true but they may have a product patent on it's use as a removable stiction improving coating.


Ahh... I see what you're saying. I didn't read this thread carefully enough.

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## FROMONT CHRISTINE

> Very true but they may have a product patent on it's use as a removable stiction improving coating.


Hello,

To all optical laboratories : we can create for you your company'slogo to print on the lenses. If you don't have any idea for a logo, please contact me at cmv@cmv.net We will find an idea.
Kindly
Christine FROMONT

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## FROMONT CHRISTINE

> Hello,
> 
> To all optical laboratories : we can create for you your company'slogo to print on the lenses. If you don't have any idea for a logo, please contact me at cmv@cmv.net We will find an idea.
> Kindly
> Christine FROMONT


Hi to Gerry,

Will contact you by phone soon. I am very interested of your suggestion.
Keep in touch,
Christine FROMONT
CMV optique

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## Chris Ryser

> *I wouldn't be surprised if there's a similar site for European patents, I just don't know what it is. Seems like the sort of thing Chris would know.* 
> -Matt


No idea on that........................but have not searched either. 

I still say that opticians should buy regular AR coatedf lenses,............cut the lenses to fit the frame and then apply the slick coat themselves. I can be done very easily in house.

*You have eliminated the slipping problem.....saved on messed up lenses and applied a slick coat that is dust and oil repellent with anti fog properties at the same time which none of the Alize and others can provide.*

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## Chris Ryser

*There is also another solution to slippage.*

*1) get the lenses without the slick coat*

*2) cut lenses*

*3) apply slick coat after cutting in simple in house application*

*No more off axis lenses..............plus a slick coat that has besides all other goodies even an anti-fog property.*

:cheers:

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## Iakwin

Hi,

My edging lab uses those blue surface savers tape which is usually used in RX blocking.

It has been more effective than those made from China or even the more expensive ones from Japan.

We customised it and make it a perfect sticker. :>

We probably do a hundred of these super HMC slippery lens everyday.

It gave me a TERRIBLE HEADACHE with a tremendous amount of lens that keep failing the QC.
But we are having almost 0 problems with this tape.

The kind of spray(coating) that Alize uses, is very expensive. I heard it costs USD$2 / pr.

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## Ace

Quote

I was wondering about the MgF2 coating that Essilore applies. Do you think thay have a Patent on this 

Yes they do. Its pretty locksolid on using an oxide evaporant for the purpose of edging lenses.

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## Ace

> No idea on that........................but have not searched either. 
> 
> I still say that opticians should buy regular AR coatedf lenses,............cut the lenses to fit the frame and then apply the slick coat themselves. I can be done very easily in house.
> 
> *You have eliminated the slipping problem.....saved on messed up lenses and applied a slick coat that is dust and oil repellent with anti fog properties at the same time which none of the Alize and others can provide.*


 How is this applied? Is it a wipe on? An ampule system with a small chamber? What's the contact angle of this product? How does it compare to alize and other super hydrophics/oleophobics? What's the ease of cleaning rating and surface tension rating? How would it ahere over the top of another hydrophobic that already is on the lens from the AR coating company. How does it hold up in longevity testing with exposure to UV and humidity? I would be very interested if it is comparable to a PVD application.

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## dochsml

> Quote
> 
> I was wondering about the MgF2 coating that Essilore applies. Do you think thay have a Patent on this 
> 
> Yes they do. Its pretty locksolid on using an oxide evaporant for the purpose of edging lenses.


 
I would guess that as long as nobody is selling a process, the lab can do whatever they want.

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## Ace

> I would guess that as long as nobody is selling a process, the lab can do whatever they want.


 Or advertising or marketing. A dangerous proposition, because everyone wants to tell their customer why their product works.

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## dochsml

> Or advertising or marketing. A dangerous proposition, because everyone wants to tell their customer why their product works.


True enough.

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## Chris Ryser

> *How is this applied? Is it a wipe on? An ampule system with a small chamber? What's the contact angle of this product? How does it compare to alize and other super hydrophics/oleophobics? What's the ease of cleaning rating and surface tension rating? How would it ahere over the top of another hydrophobic that already is on the lens from the AR coating company. How does it hold up in longevity testing with exposure to UV and humidity? I would be very interested if it is comparable to a PVD application*.


That is a pretty large order you are putting on my plate. The easiest would be you go on my website and look for it, the answers should all be there. http://optochemicals.com 

The product has been sold for many years and has been used by *most* major lens manufacturers around the globe and actually still is. It has been around long before the big fuss was started a few years ago.

Our slickcoat also provides besides antistatic properties also hydrophilic ones if that is of any interest. No other similar product can provide the same at this time.

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## EyeFitWell

Old Optician's Trick taught to me by my mentor optician who's been doin this for 30 years:
Hairspray.

You see, alize lenses and other 'slippery' surfaces come in from the lab with the AR and an additional coat on top to allow for easy edging.  You edge and then use alcohol/acetone/allchem to remove that outer layer.  If you have already removed that layer, it's the same thing as hairspray.  I always used aquanet, but I doubt the brand matters.  Spray lightly, edge, and remove as above.

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## Julian

> Very true but they may have a product patent on it's use as a removable stiction improving coating.


Yes, they have patent on it's use 
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/fetch.j...ERY=WO02092524

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## kdog2020

We edge a lot of lenses in house with many types of AR - teflon, crizal alize, kodak clear, carat advantage, hivision, etc. I use standard pads and blue chip lens protectors (both sides of lens) with an AIT edger. No slippage problems.

The basics apply - make sure the lens is clean, sharpen your edger frequently, and use the AR setting on the edger. On high minus Rx poly or trivex, I rough cut the lens 10mm big, reblock, and cut the lens to size.

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## Chris Ryser

> *Yes, they have patent on it's use* 
> http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/fetch.j...ERY=WO02092524


*Yes..........and if you looks carfully you will see that the USA is NOT included*.


*Designated States:*AE, AG, AL, AM, AT, AU, AZ, BA, BB, BG, BR, BY, BZ, CA, CH, CN, CO, CR, CU, CZ, DE, DK, DM, DZ, EC, EE, ES, FI, GB, GD, GE, GH, GM, HR, HU, ID, IL, IN, IS, JP, KE, KG, KP, KR, KZ, LC, LK, LR, LS, LT, LU, LV, MA, MD, MG, MK, MN, MW, MX, MZ, NO, NZ, OM, PH, PL, PT, RO, RU, SD, SE, SG, SI, SK, SL, TJ, TM, TN, TR, TT, TZ, UA, UG, UZ, VN, YU, ZA, ZM, ZW.
African Regional Intellectual Property Org. (ARIPO) (GH, GM, KE, LS, MW, MZ, SD, SL, SZ, TZ, UG, ZM, ZW)
Eurasian Patent Organization (EAPO) (AM, AZ, BY, KG, KZ, MD, RU, TJ, TM)
European Patent Office (EPO) (AT, BE, CH, CY, DE, DK, ES, FI, FR, GB, GR, IE, IT, LU, MC, NL, PT, SE, TR)
African Intellectual Property Organization (OAPI) (BF, BJ, CF, CG, CI, CM, GA, GN, GQ, GW, ML, MR, NE, SN, TD,

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## Julian

> *Yes..........and if you looks carfully you will see that the USA is NOT included*.
> 
> 
> *Designated States:*AE, AG, AL, AM, AT, AU, AZ, BA, BB, BG, BR, BY, BZ, CA, CH, CN, CO, CR, CU, CZ, DE, DK, DM, DZ, EC, EE, ES, FI, GB, GD, GE, GH, GM, HR, HU, ID, IL, IN, IS, JP, KE, KG, KP, KR, KZ, LC, LK, LR, LS, LT, LU, LV, MA, MD, MG, MK, MN, MW, MX, MZ, NO, NZ, OM, PH, PL, PT, RO, RU, SD, SE, SG, SI, SK, SL, TJ, TM, TN, TR, TT, TZ, UA, UG, UZ, VN, YU, ZA, ZM, ZW.
> African Regional Intellectual Property Org. (ARIPO) (GH, GM, KE, LS, MW, MZ, SD, SL, SZ, TZ, UG, ZM, ZW)
> Eurasian Patent Organization (EAPO) (AM, AZ, BY, KG, KZ, MD, RU, TJ, TM)
> European Patent Office (EPO) (AT, BE, CH, CY, DE, DK, ES, FI, FR, GB, GR, IE, IT, LU, MC, NL, PT, SE, TR)
> African Intellectual Property Organization (OAPI) (BF, BJ, CF, CG, CI, CM, GA, GN, GQ, GW, ML, MR, NE, SN, TD,



I know, but I am rather sure that there is another patent where USA is included. I work in Eurorpe, so I was interested in this area.
Best regards

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## FCChemist

The reference above is not an issued patent but rather a patent application for PCT.  Applications publish a period of time after filing.  I believe it to be 12 mos in Europe and 18 mos in the US.  Issued patents will follow the application.  The US patent office has it's own process different from PCT.

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## Julian

> The reference above is not an issued patent but rather a patent application for PCT.  Applications publish a period of time after filing.  I believe it to be 12 mos in Europe and 18 mos in the US.  Issued patents will follow the application.  The US patent office has it's own process different from PCT.


It is 30 months in Europe for putting in a claim (i am not sure if it's good word) for PCT application in other countries which mentioned in the patent.

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## hipoptical

The Evil Empire has been denied patent rights so far. An application is not a patent, it is an application. They are changing wording, and applying again, but will likely be denied once again. There are others currently using the "Patent-pending-super-duper-won't ruin your lenses-coating" (FYI).

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## Chris Ryser

So you actually still be better off by orderiung you AR coating the regular way ..............cut and edge the lenses and then apply the Diamond slick coat just before mounting the lenses. 

Additional benefit is also a build it anti-fog system that the other does not have. Cheaper.......easier.......better.

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## sayinh1

We tried MgF2 as a temporary coating on superhydrophobic with 2 nm,  5 nm and 10 nm.However, we could not obtain a temporary coating. It forms very strong bond with hyrophobic surface.Can you suggest any idea about the temporary coating?

Hasan Sayin, Ph.D

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## Chris Ryser

> Chris,
> *Can I get a sample of this product to try?*
> 
> Judy Canty


 
Of course we aree pleased to sample the products, I supply the sample you pay the transport.

We do that because so many time when you call somebody that got a sample for free.........they never even tried it in 3 month.

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## fistkuen

Hi,

I do edging everyday and sometimes it comes across with some sort of spoke-like scratches at the hard coat layer. The lens manufacturer said it was due to the heat transmitted to the center of the lenses during edging and  it led to the detachment of the hard coat layer finally. It happens to some particular brands, (and it never happens on Crizal Alize coated lenses). Even the lenses was edged with no problem at first, the hard- coating scratches come after half year. Poor quality of the lenses?

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## Darryl Meister

If this happens primarily in high minus prescriptions with thin centers, the clamping or "chucking" pressure of the edger may be causing the lenses to flex at the center and crazing the antireflection coating. You can minimize this issue by reducing chucking pressure, using a larger block/pad, etcetera.

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## optisales

It's a coating that is dipped and cured to the lens to form a front and back side protection over any lens material and AR/super Hydro AR....

It is fantastic!!!!!  Up for an OLA award this year.

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## DocInChina

> It's a coating that is dipped and cured to the lens to form a front and back side protection over any lens material and AR/super Hydro AR....
> 
> It is fantastic!!!!! Up for an OLA award this year.


 
I clicked your pic and found the link:

http://www.qtmi.net/product.php?category=4&id=33

Thanks

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## optisales

> I clicked your pic and found the link:
> 
> http://www.qtmi.net/product.php?category=4&id=33
> 
> Thanks


Let me know if you want more information as I can set you up.  The beauty of this product is that it can peal right off or washed off with water....Very cost effective as well!!!

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## Websta

Thanks for the information. We will investigate this some more as it looks like a viable option but is dependant on the speed of the process.
Will keep in contact when we take it further.

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## babyreese

Bullseye washes off in the edger.  It's about a 2 minute application.

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## LilKim

That lens wrap material looks like a more flexible version of the stuff that Rodenstock Life semi-finished is front-side coated with.  Interesting.....

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## i care guy

> *There is also another solution to slippage.*
> 
> *1) get the lenses without the slick coat*
> 
> *2) cut lenses*
> 
> *3) apply slick coat after cutting in simple in house application*
> 
> *No more off axis lenses..............plus a slick coat that has besides all other goodies even an anti-fog property.*
> ...


Chris,

Could you give me an idea of what to use & where to buy?

M.

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## i care guy

On a very high end lens with Alize or Avance I use a clear Nikon anti slip pad from Nikon. It seems to work every time and no more spoilage. I also use a high end blocking pads. This is important.

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## Fezz

Hey BabyReese,

Welcome to Optiboard!

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

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## babyreese

> That lens wrap material looks like a more flexible version of the stuff that Rodenstock Life semi-finished is front-side coated with. Interesting.....


This stuff is applied right before you edge.  It comes in a bottle.  Here's a pic.

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## Chris Ryser

> Chris,
> 
> *Could you give me an idea of what to use & where to buy?*
> 
> M.


Go on http://optochemicals.com  enter the english side, scroll down to Diamond slick coat and click on the links.


*Click for details at ►" Diamond Clear Slick Coat"*
*Click for details at ►** Product Review Diamond Slick Coat, On An OPTIBOARD posting*

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