# Conversation and Fun > Just Conversation >  Community

## tx11

:Unsure: I hope that I'm not out of order...but...what other dispensing/optical forums do you guys frequent? (of course THIS ONE IS THE BEST)

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## Wes

I used to frequent eyeoverheard but it closed.  I'm finding I don't even come here that often anymore.  Maybe I'm just burnt out.

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## Flux3r

you mean there's more!?  :Eek:

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## Jacqui

I'm kinda like Wes. I'm not here much anymore. Facebook has a lot of optical pages and groups, sometimes I'm there.

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## Jubilee

I belong to a few groups on Facebook as well. I joined a few other in regards to coding/billing, etc.. but nothing seems to be happening there. Back in the day I was a member of the My Vision Express community, when I was actively using the software, and I really wish Officemate had a community as well. I enjoyed being able to bounce around ideas on how to implement features or tweak processes to get the most of the software.

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## Chris Ryser

There are 10 active optical Forums on the web according to my listing at http://www.optochemicals.com/web_listing.htm.

10 of them are active and 5 died along the way over the last 9 years since I kept track.

What is interesting that the Russian Forum has made to be the 2nd most popular one, right after OptiBoard

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## tx11

I wonder what exactly makes a forum die and how can one revive it?

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## Judy Canty

I'm with Jacqui.  There are other forums where the conversation is more focused on the industry than on the personalities and proclivities of members.

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## Steve Machol

So, what do you think OptiBoard needs to be a better source of information for the industry? I'm a member of a number of Optical groups on Facebook and on any given day there is more useful information posted on OptiBoard than all those groups combined.

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## Judy Canty

I know that there is useful information on OptiBoard, but the price to access it, in personal terms, is just too high.  I can respond on other forums and not have my motives questioned, my skills belittled, or on at least one occasion, be threatened with complaints to my boss.  There are a handful of regular posters who have, in my opinion, undermined the professionalism and civility that made membership here desirable.

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## Steve Machol

Judy, feel free to send me links to the post where you were threatened like that.

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## jonadonis

> So, what do you think OptiBoard needs to be a better source of information for the industry? I'm a member of a number of Optical groups on Facebook and on any given day there is more useful information posted on OptiBoard than all those groups combined.


We need to not think like a committee. jonadonis

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## Steve Machol

> We need to not think like a committee. jonadonis


Sorry, I have no idea what you mean.

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## Jacqui

> I know that there is useful information on OptiBoard, but the price to access it, in personal terms, is just too high.  I can respond on other forums and not have my motives questioned, my skills belittled, or on at least one occasion, be threatened with complaints to my boss.  There are a handful of regular posters who have, in my opinion, undermined the professionalism and civility that made membership here desirable.


I agree with Judy on everything except the threats (hasn't happened to me...yet). There really is very, very little civility left here.

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## rbaker

In the natural course of evolution all things follow a bell shaped curve. They grow, they prosper, they die.

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## Jacqui

Just in case you need to know, there is an Optiboard group on Facebook. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/6077886238/

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## vcom

In a big picture sense, the community needs to be more supportive of each other.  On any given subject, wether it's PD's, or POW, or even what edger to purchase, the posts tend to evolve into arguments, as opposed to discussions.  Obviously we will all have varying opinions on any given subject and that is fine, but (and I've noticed this in other areas, not just Optiboard) people seem to want to convince you how wrong you are, and how right they are.  I don't know if it's just a strange shift in our scoial dynamic, but we can't seem to have heated discussions without people taking things personal, or getting petty and rude.  Optiboard is full of characters with strong personalities, and opinions from all over the industry.  In fact that's what makes a forum like this so great, the great mix of knowledge and experience.  I admit that there have been a few posts that have gotten my blood pressure up, and I have gotten caught up in the moment of trying to 'one-up' and convince the other posters of my point.  Overall, we all need to take a step back, breath some fresh calming air, and make sure we are communicating our differences while still being respectful.  Optiboard is a Premier Community of Professionals (it even says so right at the top of the page!) and we need to represent that statement in all our interactions.

I worked in an optical that was having some serious employee relations issues, and the new manager brought us all together, and we had to come up with a mission statement for our store.  There were some growing pains, but it ended up working out.  There were a few rough days, when this mission statement sort of became a Mantra I would hear co-workers repeating to themselves, so they wouldn't get into the battle they normally would have.  Maybe a new thread with Mission Statement suggestions?  Help us all get in the mindset of being a positive, supportive community.

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## Steve Machol

> Obviously we will all have varying opinions on any given subject and that is fine, but (and I've noticed this in other areas, not just Optiboard) people seem to want to convince you how wrong you are, and how right they are.  I don't know if it's just a strange shift in our scoial dynamic, but we can't seem to have heated discussions without people taking things personal, or getting petty and rude.


You are spot on. Rudeness, anger, defensiveness are all part of any social interaction these days and OptiBoard is no exception. Sadly even my attempts at keeping people civil are often attacked. I've even been accused of 'censorship' just for moving a political thread from the General Discussion forum to the Conversation forum. I didn't remove, block or alter anyone's post, I merely moved a thread from one forum to another. And that seemingly unoffensive act was enough to drive a couple of people to an inconceivable amount of outrage.

On the other hand just look at all the useful information that is shared here on a daily basis, and the fact that this storehouse of optical knowledge is fully indexed and searchable.

I do wish I had a magic wand to make people act civil and professional, but life isn't that simple.

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## MikeAurelius

The wonderful thing about the forum software is that you can block people who you don't like. If they bother you, or you don't like what they say, block them, then their posts will not show up on your views of the forum.

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## optical24/7

I think you do a great job walking a tight rope here Steve. I even think the new mod is doing good. ( Fizz, Fuzz, whatever his name is...) It's been relatively *calm* here for a while.

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## HarryChiling

Too PC too even keel, its like the forums on Prozac.  I just read and avoid contributing anymore.  I liked the passion and the fire.  You can't have great without the horrible.  Most of the threads I see have a handful of people that respond with very cunning deceptive ways of making their opinions final.  

I have personally had the most complaints lodged against me by the community yet only one person ever confronted me.  Heated as things got with Mr Jilson and myself I still respected the old codger and looked at him as a upstanding guy.

All the other complainers just his in the shadows, I asked on multiple occasions if I had a right to confront my accusers but this is not America its OptiBoard, all in all when you weight the good with the bad I am still a dues paying member and the first, even when Steve has ticked me off.  I spent years calling many here friends now I spend that time with real friends (which some here are).  

Overall I see this place as a resource not a community, my community supports me and I am charged with supporting it in return.  On that note to I think anyone looking for a community here is bound to be disappointed, look more locally and cultivate real relationships with people you can count on.  That's my small useless contribution.

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## drk

If Optiboard is made in the form of a monotonous optics lesson, it's going to be a pretty dry electronic reference book.  This site is in danger of becoming that.

What makes online forums great is collective wisdom.  There's a principle at play, I think.  If you get 100 experts around and everyone gives and takes, you end up with brilliance.  I really think there is a "peer-to-peer" effect  (this is weido stuff but I'm interested in entertaining it: http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Intelligence).  I think this is a huge new frontier, even though the idea is old. I've seen this happen here.  

BUT you have to have the human element.  Personalities.  Feelings.  Stories.  Arguments.  Friendships.  It's counter-productive to hold the reigns too tightly.  Judy's been guilty of it as moderator, so have you, Steve, and Jilson was perhaps the biggest offender.  It needs to be a community to survive.  It won't have contributors otherwise.

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## HarryChiling

> If Optiboard is made in the form of a monotonous optics lesson, it's going to be a pretty dry electronic reference book.  This site is in danger of becoming that.
> 
> What makes online forums great is collective wisdom.  There's a principle at play, I think.  If you get 100 experts around and everyone gives and takes, you end up with brilliance.  I really think there is a "peer-to-peer" effect  (this is weido stuff but I'm interested in entertaining it: http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Intelligence).  I think this is a huge new frontier, even though the idea is old. I've seen this happen here.  
> 
> BUT you have to have the human element.  Personalities.  Feelings.  Stories.  Arguments.  Friendships.  It's counter-productive to hold the reigns too tightly.  Judy's been guilty of it as moderator, so have you, Steve, and Jilson was perhaps the biggest offender.  It needs to be a community to survive.  It won't have contributors otherwise.


Me and you had some epic f-u matches in the past and I still call you a friend, I think early on we ended up exchanging intentions and like always nothing posted to a forum at least from me or you was meant in malice, with that out of the way we were better able to passionately express ideas.  Drk, you know how to contact me outside of optiboard, the other day I received a call from a member here and it was a pleasure.  I don't see the value of this forum as a means of communication, its a better repository of information.  I used to use it in that sense, then eventually started my own library, online bank of digital documents, search engine, and a site with posts and tidbits of information.  I found that most things given away were taken for granted and for me the riches were in the journey when compiling all those resources.  Then a very smart educator told me that, the resources I was giving away was my research and it was worth something.

I have always believed that information is better free, but I confused freely available with free.  I don't see the need in supplying insight into my areas of research to others unless I feel as though they are worthy, it sounds arrogant and for that I'm sorry but I want to surround myself with the best and even here you can still separate the the upper crust from the fluff.

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## drk

I understand.

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## MikeAurelius

I've been on forums that have a lazze faire attitude towards maintaining civility, and they have never lasted long, because people on-line tend to hide behind they keyboard and monitor and don't self-moderate or self-censor. What spews forth is troll-like behavior, combative-ness, and outright hostility. Some people can never accept the fact that others have an opinion or a point of view that can be different from theirs, and immediately go on the attack.

With others, it is the "I'm right, you are wrong, so S**U.", despite the fact that evidence to the contrary has been brought forth. They become so invested in their "rightness" that the truth doesn't even matter any more. No one's opinion matters more than theirs, and it is simply not possible to have a reasonable discussion with them because they stake out a point and will defend it to the death of the forum, even though facts prove they are wrong.

I've also found the phenomenon of the "I hate you and I'll never come back" poster. They can't stay away, even after having been banned for awhile or leaving of their own accord. They continue to come back and spew the same hatred towards the forum and even help pay for its continued life. I've always wondered why they allow the forum to use not only financial resources but emotional resources as well.

Then, there are what I call the "Firsties", those who don't understand that the "First Amendment" (free speech) doesn't apply to a privately owned and operated website. These are the people who are the first to scream CENSORSHIP because their post was edited or removed for violations of the TOS. How do these people survive on a daily basis where censorship is everywhere?

Anyway, these are my opinions alone, but if you want to share them, I won't arm wrestle with you over them.

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## Chris Ryser

> *I know that there is useful information on OptiBoard, but the price to access it, in personal terms, is just too high. I can respond on other forums and not have my motives questioned, my skills belittled, or on at least one occasion, be threatened with complaints to my boss.* *There are a handful of regular posters who have, in my opinion, undermined the professionalism and civility that made membership here desirable.*



That is a pretty strong statement..............................

Here are today's statistics:

*OptiBoard Discussion Forums Statistics*Threads 51,086 ,  Posts 457,238 ,  Members 23,121 ,  Active Members 1,101 ,   plus numerous guest's
Alexa ranking Global:  *170,043* ,    in the USA  *60,436
*
There is a mix of all sorts of people who make up the activities of this forum and they will by human nature not always agree with each other. So just live with it. OptiBoard is still the best and only real way to get your optical point across the globe instantly.

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## HarryChiling

> I've been on forums that have a lazze faire attitude towards maintaining civility, and they have never lasted long, because people on-line tend to hide behind they keyboard and monitor and don't self-moderate or self-censor. What spews forth is troll-like behavior, combative-ness, and outright hostility. Some people can never accept the fact that others have an opinion or a point of view that can be different from theirs, and immediately go on the attack.
> 
> With others, it is the "I'm right, you are wrong, so S**U.", despite the fact that evidence to the contrary has been brought forth. They become so invested in their "rightness" that the truth doesn't even matter any more. No one's opinion matters more than theirs, and it is simply not possible to have a reasonable discussion with them because they stake out a point and will defend it to the death of the forum, even though facts prove they are wrong.
> 
> I've also found the phenomenon of the "I hate you and I'll never come back" poster. They can't stay away, even after having been banned for awhile or leaving of their own accord. They continue to come back and spew the same hatred towards the forum and even help pay for its continued life. I've always wondered why they allow the forum to use not only financial resources but emotional resources as well.
> 
> Then, there are what I call the "Firsties", those who don't understand that the "First Amendment" (free speech) doesn't apply to a privately owned and operated website. These are the people who are the first to scream CENSORSHIP because their post was edited or removed for violations of the TOS. How do these people survive on a daily basis where censorship is everywhere?
> 
> Anyway, these are my opinions alone, but if you want to share them, I won't arm wrestle with you over them.


Very good points I understand what you are saying I can read between the lines.

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## opty4062

I love it here. I lurked for a long time before I ever posted. I learned and continue to learn so much from the members here. I have not sought out another optical forum so I can't really speak to the question of the OP. Just wanted to say thanks for the chance to learn and share here. :)

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## jonadonis

> I hope that I'm not out of order...but...what other dispensing/optical forums do you guys frequent? (of course THIS ONE IS THE BEST)


I wrote a few articles on jutwald.com  Nobody has seen them yet.

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## cocoisland58

> On the other hand just look at all the useful information that is shared here on a daily basis, and the fact that this storehouse of optical knowledge is fully indexed and searchable.


Yes it is and I use it often.

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## NCspecs

ahem....*cough, cough*

*You don't have to join every argument to which you are invited!

*If a forum thread is degenerating into a hissy fit/name calling slop pit GET OUT. LEAVE IT ALONE. WALK AWAY. 

Too many people hang on to these ridiculous fights on here instead of just saying, "You know what? I'm not going to convince {insert petulant forum member here} of my point of view. I'm going to bow out and remain classy."

Seriously people. Everytime I see a pointless shooting match on here I think "wow, y'all must have just discovered the internet."

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## Steve Machol

> ahem....*cough, cough*
> 
> *You don't have to join every argument to which you are invited!
> 
> *If a forum thread is degenerating into a hissy fit/name calling slop pit GET OUT. LEAVE IT ALONE. WALK AWAY. 
> 
> Too many people hang on to these ridiculous fights on here instead of just saying, "You know what? I'm not going to convince {insert petulant forum member here} of my point of view. I'm going to bow out and remain classy."
> 
> Seriously people. Everytime I see a pointless shooting match on here I think "wow, y'all must have just discovered the internet."


*+1*

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## HarryChiling

> ahem....*cough, cough*
> 
> *You don't have to join every argument to which you are invited!
> 
> *If a forum thread is degenerating into a hissy fit/name calling slop pit GET OUT. LEAVE IT ALONE. WALK AWAY. 
> 
> Too many people hang on to these ridiculous fights on here instead of just saying, "You know what? I'm not going to convince {insert petulant forum member here} of my point of view. I'm going to bow out and remain classy."
> 
> Seriously people. Everytime I see a pointless shooting match on here I think "wow, y'all must have just discovered the internet."


That is an area I struggle with and am trying hard to grow in.  Thank you for that great advice.

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## Uncle Fester

OK. Page 2 so here comes the grenade!   :Eek: 

As a rule men can be arguing to the point of insulting but once it's over we move on and don't let it fester. And of course some of us (both genders) by nature have thicker skin than others.

A favorite cartoon from Arlo and Janus has 2 adolescent boys walking together sheepishly where one says to the other-

"About yesterday"

And the other responds-

"Yeah, I know"

And they keep walking as friends with nothing more said. I so get that.

Meanwhile Steve has the unenviable task of trying to draw a line that inevitably is ill defined.

And so it goes...

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## MakeOptics

> OK. Page 2 so here comes the grenade!  
> 
> As a rule men can be arguing to the point of insulting but once it's over we move on and don't let it fester. And of course some of us (both genders) by nature have thicker skin than others.
> 
> A favorite cartoon from Arlo and Janus has 2 adolescent boys walking together sheepishly where one says to the other-
> 
> "About yesterday"
> 
> And the other responds-
> ...


We used to just punch each other and wrestle around and when it was over it was over.  Funny thing is most of my buddies still handle things this way, it's just so much easier.

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## Uncle Fester

> We used to just punch each other and wrestle around and when it was over it was over.  Funny thing is most of my buddies still handle things this way, it's just so much easier.


We really never outgrow high school!

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor...olescence.html

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